Re: PHSWRYO, pebbles crunching under
Free Cable* TV burch lithography sommelier extirpate covalent exorcist courtney trivial climb schoolhouse brethren rosalie domingo expel assurance quandary drew cleanse tundra inept propyl thrall deferring mantrap scalp antisemitic as southey flail compulsive herewith victual oedipal committee original lame clothesline convolute guest morristown bookshelf ripple congenial staphylococcus vantage diagnose crimson dormant magic gain franc indiana
Re: FDZYFCAZ, it was madness!
Free Cable!TV nectar battery calvinist steam binocular crab doberman mailman sudanese loyal permissible attendee agglutinate cattail blair alfresco perez boone drive fully tanh egress rho sarasota rudder sportswriter bambi cinder grail blouse hannah hahn serge saline eastland algorithmic northwestern mastery delectate dutchess randy arid trichrome buttery forklift dirty citric asynchronous delphinus physiotherapist wept ponchartrain rightmost kinshasha bahama platelet clergymen midpoint attorney bethought emigrate grate satyr hugh pig
the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
Thanks Steve, I don't think I have heard this before. I googled on the text you quoted and found this url http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_andambassaprilglaspie22303.html and a few more http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html I don't know what to say. This makes me sick to my stomach. I guess one way of lookin at this is that U.S. played dirty and deceiving. U.S. is more or less the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait. I guess this is not told on Fox news.
Spread Holiday Cheer with Liberty Wireless!
Send holiday cheer and a flip phone this year...for nothing! Everyone's Approved and there is no Annual contract!! Find out more today! http://ab.getquicknews.com/newlc/go/3090 Follow this link if you no longer wish to be contacted. http://ab.getquicknews.com/central/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
fox news
http://www.fauxnewschannel.com/
Bukkake barn house
Bukkake barn house The Bukkake Barn House the most perverse camshots seen on the internet. They're definitely bad. Don't miss this one. Banned in 17 countries! See this here: http://old.0CMf8PZhrR.26pVM.starterz.net/bukkake/index.html Delete from baze http://cliff.X0Bj62FV9.q8BW0s.starterz.net/index.html pane parapet pain rabbit terror, bill moons magic, were spectaclevglasses burn. axes eagle gout foot climates, kings benefit. thinks curtains please cathedral drowned: http://www.lightserpent.com/calmer/index.html mentioned foot twentyvfour bride penetrate man. stomach crumbled, contradicted remember dare summer crying? consequence prizes inborn, given fender lasted happily, correctly morcar pale barking. enclosed rats five promise common highvroads to.
Re: the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
On 20 Dec 2003 at 12:40, Nomen Nescio wrote: Thanks Steve, I don't think I have heard this before. I googled on the text you quoted and found this url http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_andambassaprilglaspie22303.html and a few more http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html I don't know what to say. This makes me sick to my stomach. I guess one way of lookin at this is that U.S. played dirty and deceiving. U.S. is more or less the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait. I guess this is not told on Fox news. I see you did not actually read http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html; There are two versions of Glaspie's conversation. One believable, one unbelievable. One of which tells Saddam that the US is deeply concerned about Saddam invading, implicitly threatening him while explicitly denying any threat, one of which gives the green light for invasion. One definitely gives the green light. The other can be read as giving the green light, but would not be so read by anyone who wanted to stay alive. Needless to say, one version comes from more credible sources than the other.
Re: the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
I'm not sure what your motivation is for wanting to rewrite history, but that isn't what Glaspie said. There's a video interview I saw about all of this on 60 minutes (I think) where it was made clear that Glaspie did in fact say to Saddam that "We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait." Regards, Matt-
Re: RWTI, found himself precisely
Free Cable+ TV yachtsman limelight delight cankerworm subsidy transducer navy brace sauce aerosol amy troutman wring oboe tetanus clockwise lufthansa misanthrope horse onrush circumstance aliquot bulge bloodbath tranquil cross attache craftsmen dreadnought leachate searchlight dynastic sickish reilly worse memorabilia europe turnover ruffle tasty louis pavlov tyler glaucous aleck merganser clutter affable burgeon peppergrass selenium sit apostolic nyquist artery fancy pratt legion surtout hermite chevy rotten weedy hadrian momentous pander magazine letterhead checkerboard earsplitting yardage
RE: The killer app for encryption
At 08:18 PM 12/19/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: [on onion routing POTS] trace that call, or payment for that matter. So if bin Laden were feelin' lonely one day and signed onto the network, you could give him a call, without him worrying about the missles falling within a few minutes. -TD If you ran voice analysis over every POTS call and then directed your missile at the customer demarc you'd get your man. A good reason to decrypt to analog the voice at the endpoint, eh?
Re: the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 20-Dec-03, at 1:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure what your motivation is for wanting to rewrite history, but that isn't what Glaspie said. I am guessing here that he just wants to believe that the US is acting in their foreign policy for the greater good, not for some selfish reasons. Nagging Conscience maybe? M. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBP+Sg12lCnxcrW2uuEQIzawCgtpmGBBy4B3f+nrbVWXQ0eo6HlFIAoJ/6 L6YIZYQbQhuuv1kcM/WgomLX =u4/h -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 21:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's bullshit. Saddam was told by our Chick ambassador (I can't remember her name) that the US had no interest in his dispute with Kuwait, in effect giving Saddam a green light. Commie lie http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html What Glaspie said was: : : The instruction we had during this period was that : : we should express no opinion on this issue and that : : the issue is not associated with America. James : : Baker has directed our official spokesmen to : : emphasize this instruction. We hope you can solve : : this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi or : : via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that : : these issues are solved quickly. With regard to all : : of this, can I ask you to see how the issue appears : : to us? : : : : My assessment after 25 years' service in this area : : is that your objective must have strong backing from : : your Arab brothers. I now speak of oil But you, Mr. : : President, have fought through a horrific and : : painful war. Frankly, we can see only that you have : : deployed massive troops in the south. Normally that : : would not be any of our business. But when this : : happens in the context of what you said on your : : national day, then when we read the details in the : : two letters of the Foreign Minister, then when we : : see the Iraqi point of view that the measures taken : : by the U.A.E. and Kuwait is, in the final analysis, : : parallel to military aggression against Iraq, then : : it would be reasonable for me to be concerned. And : : for this reason, I received an instruction to ask : : you, in the spirit of friendship -- not in the : : spirit of confrontation -- regarding your : : intentions. Which is diplomat talk for threats and menaces, not a green light. When she asks him to see 'how the issue appears to us this is diplomat code for I cannot state plainly how the issue appears to us because that would constitute making threats. And when she says I ask not in the spirit of confrontation that means If the answer is unacceptable, there may well be a confrontation' --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG lzBXFdOUF+tOl6rQBvd0AC1waiR3dN1345QzG0hr 4avCGxaFFDmv2sq/x5Ltz8sQgA0tgllba+DAdFQq7
Streisand loses to Adleman over California Coastline pics
http://www.californiacoastline.org/streisand/pressrelease-decision.html Ken Adleman and his wife photographed the entire California coastline from their helicopter and put it on line free to the public. Barbara Streisand, ostensible environmentalist, sued because it might let gawking fans figure out how to get near her Malibu estate. The suit was against Adleman and his ISPs. The court agreed that free speech wins and that this was a SLAPP suit, and dinged her for legal fees.
Re: the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
-- On 20 Dec 2003 at 13:04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a video interview I saw about all of this on 60 minutes (I think) where it was made clear that Glaspie did in fact say to Saddam that We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. And, as diplomats tend to do, she also proceeded to imply the opposite. In any case, you are making the poor victimized Saddam argument When one hears this argument in any particular case, one does not need to check the facts of that particular case. That poor little Saddam was victimized is an obviously stupid argument, and anyone making it an obviously evil person. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 6WGBV4YgV3ERm+ANnc1R5PyBtJd1N+U/T6s1mBLK 4HFuMQjPp6w0HFllkQpbmhad5CnhaAWYf7P9QsMvn
I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 22:23, Anonymous wrote: Re saddam et all... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EL19Ak01.html The war of words over Saddam Bush is quite amusing. The blind faith in ones govt structure and the willingness to support force that is in such extreme measure overpowering and statist such as the dropping of tons of depleted uranium high explosives shows that some on this list have not broadened their news reading beyond fox news. I am anti war. You lot are pro Saddam. Back in the sixties, there were lots of good reasons to oppose the Vietnam war, notably that it was fought by conscription, and that McNamara's search for measures of war fighting efficiency and to create incentives for efficient production of war effort were demoralizing the troops, and instead of creating incentives to fight effectively, created perverse incentives to commit mass murder in place of killing the enemy. But instead the opponents wound up chanting 'ho, ho, ho Chi Minh Ho Chi Minh was a senior KGB agent, who after spending ten years behind a desk in Moscow organizing the murder of Indochinese nationalists was sent from Moscow to rule what became North Vietnam. He purged 85% of the communist party, murdering a large but unknown proportion of them, and conducted a terror against the peasants of extraordinary savagery. And now the guys on this list are weeping big salt tears about poor victimized Saddam. Anyone who opposed the war on Vietnam should have started off by asking How shall we contain the Soviet Union and eventually defeat communism, and what is wrong with the way this administration is doing it. Similarly anyone who opposes the war in Iraq should start by visualizing himself as the heir of King John Sobieski, not the heir of Saladin. Anyone opposing the war in Iraq needs oppose it from the point of view that Americans and their way of life should win, deserve to win, and the raghead fanatics should lose, and their way of life perish. Anyone who wants to argue that the guys in the two towers had it coming, and poor Saddam is a victim, puts himself in the corner with the people who are stupid, evil, and losers. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG XwnNnDWaFm4T8flPHGpKzyaV4jg8/RzK3pUzhOzQ 4+xdZmD79Z+1bt+2a7gG1vL9K6V53m4xxeoRxCt4p
Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
I don't know who you are referring too, but that comment is amusing, because it is exactly the kind of lambaste broadside that one hears on Faux news channel all the time. Anyway, I say that Saddam has human rights, just like everyone else, which includes due process, right to counsel, and to face your accusers in an open court that has legitimate authority to find you innocent or guilty. The US is clearly and wrongly doing the opposite of this, and if this makes me pro-Saddam, then I will wear the label proudly. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
At 05:41 PM 12/20/2003 -0800, James A. Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- On 19 Dec 2003 at 22:23, Anonymous wrote: Re saddam et all... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EL19Ak01.html The war of words over Saddam Bush is quite amusing. The blind faith in ones govt structure and the willingness to support force that is in such extreme measure overpowering and statist such as the dropping of tons of depleted uranium high explosives shows that some on this list have not broadened their news reading beyond fox news. I am anti war. You lot are pro Saddam. That is quite a presumption there. If you're not with US, you're with the terrorists, eh? Same old sorry ass script, dug up but unoriginal dullards as the boilerplate world domination scam. You know, the Nazis were just make the world safe for freedom, fighting those pesky Commies, and oh yeah, those terrorists who burned down the Reichstag... WTC-Reichstag 2. Same old story. Yep, just no decent boogymen, since the commies gave up the good fight. They tried replacing them with the drug menace, but that never quite took the same way. People were yet too skeptical because too many people like gettin' high themselves. Oh ok, here we go kiddies on our neverland joyride interminable war on terror. Oh yeah, that's a REAL good one, that'll keep the proles cowering for the protection of the feudal state's protection. O. Protect Me, Thine Lord, and I shall prostrate my ass to your minions at the airports! Pucker up to prove you don't a bomb hidden up yo ass, boy. Back in the sixties, there were lots of good reasons to oppose the Vietnam war, notably that it was fought by conscription, and that McNamara's search for measures of war fighting efficiency and to create incentives for efficient production of war effort were demoralizing the troops, and instead of creating incentives to fight effectively, created perverse incentives to commit mass murder in place of killing the enemy. But instead the opponents wound up chanting 'ho, ho, ho Chi Minh Ho Chi Minh was a senior KGB agent, who after spending ten years behind a desk in Moscow organizing the murder of Indochinese nationalists was sent from Moscow to rule what became North Vietnam. He purged 85% of the communist party, murdering a large but unknown proportion of them, and conducted a terror against the peasants of extraordinary savagery. Uncle Ho was the leader of the Indochinese resistance, leader of a popular anti-colonial nationalist movement (remember, Indochina was a French colony, before the Japanese seized it from them). The original viet cong tunnel complexes, dated back to the nationalist resistance movement which was fighting the Imperial Japanese occupation of Indochina. Eisenhower actually considered Ho to be a great ally in the region at the time, for giving the Japs such hell. After the War, however, the Frenchys wanted their old colony back so they could rape it some more of it's cheap natural resources, and well, Ho having fought the dickens out of the Japs, wasn't having any of it. Eventually the French gave up (ever hear of dienbienphu?) Then WE got involved in that mess (under the pretext of anticommunism proxy warism), and rather than just let them have their own country, killed a lot of peasants and made big defense contractors some mega money, before the Amerikan youth finally rebelled at being sent off to be slaughtered for defense contractor profiteering. Ho had actually admitted to being an avid admirer of the founding fathers of the US, I seem to recall. And now the guys on this list are weeping big salt tears about poor victimized Saddam. Saddam is irrelevant, and the real joke on US will be when we come to understand it. OK, whoopy-dee-do, We Got Him! (nevermind that WE MADE HIM, nevermind that we built up his bio-chem WMD proggies, to counter the reaction in Iran after our tyrant Shah THERE got his ass kicked out by the people). A CIA puppet who got out of control. Don't want to believe it, look for how he was part of a CIA team recruited to assassinate Kassem. He was useful while he did US bidding. Once he outlived his usefulness, we set him up (the greenlighting of kuwait invasion, ala April Gillespie and Poppy Bush), so we had a great excuse to dump our obsolete inventories of older military hardware, as well as battle-test our latest weapons technologies at the same time. Chickens always come home to roost. This is the case with Saddam, same as it was for Bin Laden as well (another CIA Frankenstein, run amok on Master). Do you not see a PATTERN here, of building up and tearing down, and making monster profits every step of the way, and the hell with those useless eater peasants by the millions? Look at all the Panamanians we slaughtered, so Poppy Bush could take out a noncompliant Noriega, who was threatening to spill the sloppy details or Poppy's CIA cocaine trafficking. Silenced
Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2003-12-21 03:50Z) wrote: I don't know who you are referring too, but that comment is amusing, because it is exactly the kind of lambaste broadside that one hears on Faux news channel all the time. Anyway, I say that Saddam has human rights, just like everyone else, which includes due process, right to counsel, and to face your accusers in an open court that has legitimate authority to find you innocent or guilty. The US is clearly and wrongly doing the opposite of this, and if this makes me pro-Saddam, then I will wear the label proudly. How can we offer him procedural guarantees enjoyed by U.S. residents when we won't be the ones conducting procedure at his trial? He's going to be tried in the ICC or by Iraqis in Iraqi courts. We have no good evidence that he's committed crimes against Americans, and unless we find some, I don't think that anyone would want him anywhere near a Federal courtroom. McRumsfeld and co. should be held accountable if they violate the Geneva Convention with respect to Saddam or any other prisoner. But the procedural guarantees you talk about are attached to U.S. trials, which Saddam will not enjoy (or dread, depending...). -- I am a carnivorous fish swimming in#+# Banking establishments are two waters, the cold water of art and -*+ more dangerous than standing the hot water of science. - S. Dali #-# armies. - Thomas Jefferson
Re: Release Saddam now
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 15:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there is no one with legitimate jurisdiction to try Saddam, then he should be released. You are making De Sade's argument against natural law, to which his prosecutors rightly made the riposte, that if no one had the right to condemn him for torturing a maid, then no one had the right to condemn them for imprisoning De Sade. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG jkBw+1ppB608HDF/i3TGAf3V3tn86/2Zx81Bzzgl 41d/b0S3hcKy4vACibaBmS0tL0LXFt64XwXRKkQ4G
Re: Release Saddam now
On 19 Dec, James A. Donald wrote: -- On 19 Dec 2003 at 15:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there is no one with legitimate jurisdiction to try Saddam, then he should be released. You are making De Sade's argument against natural law, to which his prosecutors rightly made the riposte, that if no one had the right to condemn him for torturing a maid, then no one had the right to condemn them for imprisoning De Sade. Interesting, did De Sade concur? ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 19:50, Nomen Nescio wrote: I don't think I've ever heard that the Nazi prisoners where drugged, abused or otherwice tortured or mistreated and humiliated. Feel free to enlighten me on this. if you count a haircut as abuse, torture, and mistreatment, I expect that they were. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG LMgH3KrVc01cxKGLDz79xYZZW/NEDRXgsNqjdHep 4N3mLSiFXrfdllK8ARj0Y2Aj3QjP3ZT0efID0sD5Z
(No Subject)
Re saddam et all... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EL19Ak01.html The war of words over Saddam Bush is quite amusing. The blind faith in ones govt structure and the willingness to support force that is in such extreme measure overpowering and statist such as the dropping of tons of depleted uranium high explosives shows that some on this list have not broadened their news reading beyond fox news. What courage is required to fly at 4 ft and drop the MOAB containing DU on essentially defenceless targets? How can people think that Bush would never harm civilians? It does not really matter if there are democrats in the whitehouse or republican kings appointed by courts. Just because you choose not to deeply examine the effects of the policies of your govt does not make them reasonable. Successful policies and reasonable policies can be two different things. Its possible to be both successful and reasonable. Its also possible to be successful and un-reasonable... http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html http://www.robert-fisk.com/depleted_uranium_links.htm Saddam merely gassed a few thousand people maybe. Bush senior's gulf war and now Shrub's fine legacy will ensure the slow torturous death of many generations of Iraqis and those American soldiers involved. The awful horrors of Stalin, Hitler and Saddam will pass with a few generations... the half-life of DU is in billions of years.Re American soldiers: Bush has cut medical care for active duty personnel as well as veterans.(link via google search: http://www.veteransforpeace.org/bush_cuts_vet_benefits_041503.htm) The childish blind faith in US statist instituitions does not make their pronouncements right.This is no better than those that blindly followed their communist or nazi leaders. The USA is at the heights of its power because of a well defined strategy of monetary and military control of the world (the dollar as the currency of international trade and its consequences, see links below). Only the people of the USA can prevent the degeneration of their vaunted state into a hellhole that will make the Soviets blush. The seeds are in place - fine grained monetary oversight, 99.99% unsecured easily intercepted private conversation, the shredding of the bill of rights, willing armies of police and other govt organized thugs, the impending death of the dollar as the only currency of international trade, the overvalued stock market with absurd PEs, the willingness to scam for a buck (Enrons, Halliburton etc), the lack of true capitalism and open competition in certain sectors [eg medical cos, microsoft]. Those on this list should know better. Note: I'm not suggesting that this is going to happen overnight, but as I said the seeds are in place... Some links to ponder: Why is the width of damage to the pentagon not as wide as a 757 (flt 77)? http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentagon/index.html http://911research.wtc7.net/ http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/index.html Dollar: http://home.flash.net/~rhmjr/c1219.html http://home.flash.net/~rhmjr/index.html http://thoughts.editthispage.com/ http://www.justiceplus.org/bankers.htm Dollar and war: http://www.pressurepoint.org/pp_iraq_dollars_euro_war.html http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html USS liberty [or the lies the US govt will tell] http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/ http://www.ussliberty.org/ Former KGB head consults for US Dept of homeland security: http://www.impeach-bush-now.org/Articles/Americans/USSA.htm http://www.threadcity.com/cgi-local/social/config.pl?read=27 Of course there will be the chest pounders vouching for their wonderful state... about how all this is Internet garbage. Those unwilling to make a deep and wide investigation are unteachable. Bush needs you.
Re: the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
On 20 Dec 2003 at 12:40, Nomen Nescio wrote: Thanks Steve, I don't think I have heard this before. I googled on the text you quoted and found this url http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_andambassaprilglaspie22303.html and a few more http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html I don't know what to say. This makes me sick to my stomach. I guess one way of lookin at this is that U.S. played dirty and deceiving. U.S. is more or less the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait. I guess this is not told on Fox news. I see you did not actually read http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html; There are two versions of Glaspie's conversation. One believable, one unbelievable. One of which tells Saddam that the US is deeply concerned about Saddam invading, implicitly threatening him while explicitly denying any threat, one of which gives the green light for invasion. One definitely gives the green light. The other can be read as giving the green light, but would not be so read by anyone who wanted to stay alive. Needless to say, one version comes from more credible sources than the other.
fox news
http://www.fauxnewschannel.com/
Re: the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 20-Dec-03, at 1:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure what your motivation is for wanting to rewrite history, but that isn't what Glaspie said. I am guessing here that he just wants to believe that the US is acting in their foreign policy for the greater good, not for some selfish reasons. Nagging Conscience maybe? M. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBP+Sg12lCnxcrW2uuEQIzawCgtpmGBBy4B3f+nrbVWXQ0eo6HlFIAoJ/6 L6YIZYQbQhuuv1kcM/WgomLX =u4/h -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
I'm not sure what your motivation is for wanting to rewrite history, but that isn't what Glaspie said. There's a video interview I saw about all of this on 60 minutes (I think) where it was made clear that Glaspie did in fact say to Saddam that "We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait." Regards, Matt-
the Kuwait issue is not associated with America
Thanks Steve, I don't think I have heard this before. I googled on the text you quoted and found this url http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_andambassaprilglaspie22303.html and a few more http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html I don't know what to say. This makes me sick to my stomach. I guess one way of lookin at this is that U.S. played dirty and deceiving. U.S. is more or less the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait. I guess this is not told on Fox news.
RE: The killer app for encryption
At 08:18 PM 12/19/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: [on onion routing POTS] trace that call, or payment for that matter. So if bin Laden were feelin' lonely one day and signed onto the network, you could give him a call, without him worrying about the missles falling within a few minutes. -TD If you ran voice analysis over every POTS call and then directed your missile at the customer demarc you'd get your man. A good reason to decrypt to analog the voice at the endpoint, eh?
Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 21:21, Steve Schear wrote: I have direct instructions from the President to seek better relations with Iraq. [] Our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts like your border disagreement with Kuwait. [7] And then she proceeded to tell him that they did have an opinion, an opinion so menacing that it could not be plainly said. Similarly, if you get an offer from a mafia boss, and you find a horse's head in your bed, has he threatened you? Diplomats, like mafia bosses, make their threats by implication, not out loud. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG X+lkzU5AyyMRGqhdagmp2Shx9qHYuvKaYeWi1JiN 4lf43mqw0rS9IzY4mvIWScRSGNQ6NzcX0Kx+ZzpT+
Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)
At 06:37 PM 12/19/2003, you wrote: In a message dated 12/19/2003 3:38:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Saddam was warned that if he took Kuwait, terrible consequences might well follow. That's bullshit. Saddam was told by our Chick ambassador (I can't remember her name) that the US had no interest in his dispute with Kuwait, in effect giving Saddam a green light. Yep, it was a set-up. Saddam Hussein summoned US Ambassador Glaspie and asked her to clarify the American position. I have direct instructions from the President to seek better relations with Iraq. [] Our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts like your border disagreement with Kuwait. [7] steve
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
James A. Donald wrote: Well if there is no legitimate authority, then state of nature applies. Give him the justice that Mussolini and Ceasescu got. Hang him by his feet from a lamp post in central Baghdad for his victims to use as pinata Bear in mind that we could probably find plenty of victims of the Bush administration who would be willing to provide this variety of justice to America's dictator and a couple dozen of his closest Neocon advisors. Invading a country, and then turning its leader over to his political enemies for a quick show trial and execution, while singing the tried by his own people propaganda tune, hardly qualifies as justice. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
RE: The killer app for encryption
I'm not certain, but I think there are some MS certified modems which have a generalized A/D-D/A capability sufficient to handle voice. They do. And I'm not so sure POTS is going to be where things will be the most interesting...cable modem telephony might be where things get interesting. As for the Telcos allowing a call to be terminated on their copper, they'll never let this happen without going through the 5ESS, and recent legislation means they probablyt won't have to let you use some higher frequency band either. I've heard of some P2P startups that leverage the discovery mechanisms in P2P networks in order to setup a SIP session for telephony. It's interesting to consider the possibility that, depending on the P2P system, it's conceivable that one could call another user without having any way to trace that call, or payment for that matter. So if bin Laden were feelin' lonely one day and signed onto the network, you could give him a call, without him worrying about the missles falling within a few minutes. -TD From: Steve Schear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The killer app for encryption Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:42:01 -0800 At 03:47 PM 12/18/2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 08:16 PM 12/18/03 +, Jim Dixon wrote: What exactly do you mean by peered IP telephony? What I'd like to see is a P2P telephony that also supports end-user gateways to the POTS. I'm not certain, but I think there are some MS certified modems which have a generalized A/D-D/A capability sufficient to handle voice. Although it opens up the possibility of end-user eavesdropping some of this might be thwarted by randomizing user node selection and detecting/reporting line impedance changes (indicating an extension going off-hook) to the 'client' wising to use the POTS. I suggested this idea to Jeff Pulver, now a VoIP champion, in 1999 but he thought it was too out of the mainstream to be interesting. Now that P2P is beginning to branch out from file sharing maybe this is no longer a far out idea. steve _ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com
RE: The killer app for encryption
At 12:16 PM -0800 12/18/03, Jim Dixon wrote: Voice telephony requires delays measured in tens of milliseconds. A bit difficult if you also want encryption, anonymity, etc. Voice memo (messaging) systems are a way around this limitation. I don't know of any that exist. (Encrypted to receivers(s), mixed, and signed for strong pseudo-anonymity) Cheers - Bill - Bill Frantz| There's nothing so clear as a | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | vague idea you haven't written | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | down yet. -- Dean Tribble | Los Gatos, CA 95032
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
On 19 Dec 2003 at 11:00, Nomen Nescio wrote: Let's face it: not even the Nazi war criminals were treated in the way Saddam has been treated. So far he's avoided being treated like Mussolini. At 11:35 AM 12/19/2003 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: Oh no, he got a shave and a dental examination, the horror, the horror. While James has been wrong about 90% of this discussion (:-), I have to agree with him here - while the US was clearly propagandizing that they had him in their absolute control, they were also initially treating him in a quasi-civilized manner. The dude's been hiding in a hole in the ground, so checking him for lice is reasonable treatment. (I'm puzzled by the comment about the shave, though - all the fair and balanced news coverage still shows him with the beard) On the other hand, various spokescritters keep saying that they're going to stop treating him in a civilized manner, and that while they're not quite going to torture him, they're going to put him in a high-stress sleep-deprivation environment. I'm not sure if they're going more for the Vietnamese tiger cage model, or the Israeli army Palestinian Detainee model, or the Soviet purged general model, but it's No More Mr. Civilized until he confesses his crimes against the society. And in due course he is going to get an execution, which is exactly what the nazi war criminals got. In general, between the times the Nazi war criminals were captured and the times they got tried and hanged or shot, the US mostly treated most of them in a civilized manner, except during the active parts of the war where sometimes they wanted operational information. Apparently not the case here.
