Re: Privacy laws and social engineering

[Thomas Shaddack]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 So, which is better, Schneier's books or Mitnick's?   I suspect
 the former, but am curious what the community opinion is?

You may like one side of the coin more than the other one, but they still 
belong to the same flat, dirty, formerly shiny and now dull and mildly 
corroded disc of an alloy of not so noble metals.

Sometimes you get access by telnet. Sometimes by a voice call. Hack the 
mainframe. Hack the secretary. What's better? (Okay, I agree, you can't 
sleep with the mainframe.)

There are many ways to the hilltop. Some travelers argue what one is 
better. Others quarrel if the hilltop is more important than the pathway 
or the other way. Some don't care and march forward.

I feel zen today.

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Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 06:58 AM 7/7/04 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
I can't imagine any intelligence professional wasting her time reading
the crap at times coming over this list.

Frankly sir, that's because you have no idea of their budget,
or their fascistic urges.Its not paranoia to think you're tapped,
its rationality.

---

Stop shedding our blood to save your own and the solution to this
simple
 but complex equation is in your hands. You know matters will escalate
the more you
delay and then do not blame us but blame yourselves. Rational people do
not risk their
security, money and sons to appease the White House liar.

Re: Privacy laws and social engineering

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 08:10 AM 7/7/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 So, which is better, Schneier's books or Mitnick's?   I suspect
 the former, but am curious what the community opinion is?

You may like one side of the coin more than the other one, but they
still
belong to the same flat, dirty, formerly shiny and now dull and mildly
corroded disc of an alloy of not so noble metals.

I feel zen today.

You have no idea how Zen I have felt recently.  No idea.

As BS says, you go after people, not tech, these days.

I was merely asking where I should spend my $, whether
Mitnick was worth it, as Schneier by default is.

Or what the hell, maybe my contract will become a job,
and I'll buy 'em all.

Meanwhile, watch your ass, the marketroids are full of detritus.

And if you take cyanide salts, you dont' tell anyone about it.

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Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Eugen Leitl]

On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 11:36:11PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
 At 06:58 AM 7/7/04 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
 I can't imagine any intelligence professional wasting her time reading
 the crap at times coming over this list.
 
 Frankly sir, that's because you have no idea of their budget,
 or their fascistic urges.Its not paranoia to think you're tapped,
 its rationality.

Of course we're tapped, despite funky headers like

Received: from positron.jfet.org (positron.jfet.org [66.136.223.122])
(using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits))
(Client CN positron.mit.edu, Issuer positron.mit.edu (not
verified))
by leitl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD9D3A8326
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed,  7 Jul 2004 08:39:41 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from positron.jfet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by positron.jfet.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Debian-3) with ESMTP id
i676giK6021720
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 7 Jul 2004
01:42:44 -0500

just don't fool yourself about all your fans at Mt. Spook central ejecting 
coffee through their nose at our jokes and witticisms. Databases, despite
much improved, don't have a good sense of humor.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


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Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Bill Stewart]

At 02:47 PM 7/6/2004, Hal Finney wrote:
Thomas Shaddack writes:
 There are various email forwarding services, which are nothing more than a
 SMTP server with pairs of [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Right, mostly for use as disposable email addresses.
I've used spamgourmet to good effect, myself.
They're also marketed as permanent addresses you can keep when
you change ISPs, for example pobox.com was one of the first ones.
Unfortunately, as far as I know, none of the forwarders let you
forward mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
which means that they don't support tag-based spam protection.
When I want disposable addresses, I either use free providers,
or I use tagged addresses at free / cheap providers like fastmail.fm.
One thing I haven't understood in all the commentary is whether law
enforcment still needs a warrant to access emails stored in this way.
Apparently the ISP can read them without any notice or liability, but
what about the police?
Councilman currently only affects the First Circuit (the Northeast),
and it was only the three-judge-panel version of the Appeals Court,
so he could appeal it to the full court before going to the Supremes.
My reading of the opinions is that the two majority judges totally
failed to grasp the technology, while the dissenting judge got it,
so even if the opinion stands, it's very narrow in scope -
but it's a strong reminder that the current laws don't protect
stored email very well, and that if judges aren't technical enough
to understand it when it's laid out in front of their faces,
they're certainly not going to be sufficiently uncooperative
when police try to get warrants or subpoenas (or at least it
probably won't be hard for police to find a cooperative judge.)
Also, in the Steve Jackson Games case, the courts and Feds got away
with declaring that the ECPA didn't apply to mail that had arrived
in mailboxes, only to mail that was in transit.
It's not clear that ISPs in general can read mail without any
notice or liability - just that the obvious readings of the law
that Councilman sued them under don't currently work in the 1st Circuit.
He might have tried various business-related torts successfully,
but the wiretapping laws looked like a slam-dunk.
But that doesn't usually work against police, just businesses.
Police reading mail like this really is a different case -
they either need some kind of court papers to hand the ISP
(though these days the Patriot Act seems to be used to justify
almost anything and place a gag order on the activity,
and a subpoena is easier to get than a warrant),
or they need some bogus justification that the ISP has to
obey administrative requests that aren't court-issued,
or they need to wiretap the bits legally.
Also, what if you run your own mail spool, so the email is never stored
at the ISP, it just passes through the routers controlled by the ISP
(just like it passed through a dozen other routers on the internet).
Does this give the ISP (and all the other router owners) the right to
read your email?  I don't think so, it seems like that would definitely
cross over the line from mail in storage to mail in transit.
One scary thing about Councilman was that it happened in a case
where the government was vaguely neutral and responsible for protecting
the citizen's privacy - when the prosecutors are _trying_ to get
outrageously twisted anti-privacy rulings they're more likely to win.
In particular, does a message count as in transit if you're
only hauling IP packets around with parts of the message
rather than the whole message, or does each part count as in storage
when it's gotten to a router that has to queue it before
forwarding it on to the next hop?  Or if the whole message
is queued in your ISP's sendmail queue because you've got an MX there?
What about _outgoing_ mail queued at your ISP,
who's being a good anti-spammer and forcing you to use
their mail transfer agent instead of sending directly to the destination?
 There can be an easy enhancement for such forwarder service; GnuPG proxy.
There are several different threat models to think about -
- Greedy ISP reading your mail for their own purposes
- ISP responding to court-ordered wiretapping
- ISP collaborating enthusiastically with police
- Police wiretapping without court orders
- All of the above, but for stored mailboxes, not in-transit
- All of the above, but for traffic analysis / headers, not content
Mail-handling services don't prevent any of the in-transit threats,
but they can eliminate most of the threats to stored mailboxes,
and they do let you move your vulnerability to a different jurisdiction,
which can potentially reduce the likelihood that they'll wiretap you there.
For instance, if you're using your local cable modem company
for mailbox services, and you annoy your local police,
they may try to tap you, but police in Anguilla will probably
only try to tap you if you've gotten the US Feds or MI5/MI6 annoyed.
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Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Tyler Durden]

If you think the cable landings in Va/Md are coincidental, you are
smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
archiving and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
the right to idioms.
Well, I don't actually believe it's all recorded. As I've attempted to 
explain previously, they almost certainly have risk models in place. When 
several variables twinkle enough (eg, origination area, IP address, presence 
of crypto...) some rule fires and then diverts a copy into the WASP'S Nest. 
There's probably some kind of key word search that either diverts the copy 
into storage or into the short list for an analyst to peek it.

-TD

From: Major Variola (ret) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto  
proxies
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:40:29 -0700

At 02:47 PM 7/6/04 -0700, Hal Finney wrote:
 Messages in storage have much lower judicial protection than messages
in
 transit. (This does not have much technical merit, in the current
 atmosphere of damn the laws - there are terrorists around the
corner,
 but can be seen as a nice little potential benefit.)
Ie zero.
One thing I haven't understood in all the commentary is whether law
enforcment still needs a warrant to access emails stored in this way.
Apparently the ISP can read them without any notice or liability, but
what about the police?
You are state meat, whether 5150'd or not.
Also, what if you run your own mail spool, so the email is never stored
at the ISP, it just passes through the routers controlled by the ISP
(just like it passed through a dozen other routers on the internet).
Does this give the ISP (and all the other router owners) the right to
read your email?  I don't think so, it seems like that would definitely
cross over the line from mail in storage to mail in transit.
If you think the cable landings in Va/Md are coincidental, you are
smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
archiving
and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
the right to idioms.



_
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months 
FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Eugen Leitl]

On Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 10:28:01AM -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:

 Well, I don't actually believe it's all recorded. As I've attempted to 
 explain previously, they almost certainly have risk models in place. When 
 several variables twinkle enough (eg, origination area, IP address, 
 presence of crypto...) some rule fires and then diverts a copy into the 
 WASP'S Nest. There's probably some kind of key word search that either 
 diverts the copy into storage or into the short list for an analyst to peek 
 it.

How much plain text can ~10^9 online monkeys daily enter into their keyboard? 
A ~10^3 average ballpark gives you a TByte/day (minus the redundancy), which
is currently a 1U worth of SATA RAID/day, or 3 years worth of world's entire traffic
in a 10^3 node cluster, which is on the low side these days. 
Hard drive storage density goes up exponentially, and probably
faster than people can go online (the old world has saturated) -- it isn't a
problem, given that population increase doesn't occur at these growth rates. 
You don't have to delete anything, ever.

Given what Google manages with some 10^4..10^5 nodes, this problem set looks puny in
comparison. Keeping the data on a cluster gives you the local crunch to do
some very nontrivial data mining, especially if you narrow the scope down
sufficiently to be able to lock the data in memory and crunch it there.

Fax OCR/telex is just as easy, speech recognition doable, given the budget.

We don't know whether they are actually doing it (I *think* these people are
too conservative to be doing clusters right now, so they're probably doing
storage hierarchies with tape libraries -- but then they as well could be MIB
types years ahead of the mainstream), the point it is that they
could, given the documented amount of hired talent and official budget.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


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Re: Thanks :)

[Tom]

 





Your_complaint.cpl
Description: Binary data

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[Bradford Daniel]

Title: sodium
Opt-in Email offer for July 2004  unsubscribe meSEARCH   Software   TOP 10 TITLES  ON SALE NOW!1  Windows XP Pro2  Office XP Pro3  Photoshop 8.0 CS4  Flash MX 20045 Acrobat 6.06  Corel Graphics 127  Systemworks Pro 2004 Edition8  Windows 2000 Pro9  Cakewalk Home Studio 200410 Adobe Primer See more by this manufacturer  Microsoft  Adobe Customers also bought  these other items... Share your thoughts  write a review  e-mail a friend about this item Microsoft Windows XP Professional OEM Microsoft Choose:  See Other Options   List Price:$279.00 Price:$49.99 You Save:$229.01 (85%)   Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Coupon Code: IS229 Media: CD-ROM / Download  System requirements | Accessories | Other VersionsFeatures:  Designed for businesses of all sizes  Manage digital pictures, music, video, DVDs, and more  More security with the ability to encrypt files and folders  Built-in voice, video, and instant messaging support  Integration with Windows servers and management solutions  Sales Rank: #1 Shipping: International/US or via instant download Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2004 Average Customer Review:  Based on 1,368 reviews. Write a review.  Microsoft Office XP Professional OEM Microsoft Choose:  See Other Options  List Price:$549.00 Price:$69.99 You Save:$479.01 (87%)  Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Coupon Code: IS229 Media: CD-ROM / Download  System requirements | Accessories | Other VersionsFeatures:  Delve into databases with ease   New context-sensitive smart tags  New task panes  New Outlook condenses all your personal and professional e-mail into one central location--even Web-based e-mail  Includes Word, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, and Access Sales Rank: #2 Shipping: International/US or via instant download Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2004 Average Customer Review:  Based on 887 reviews. Write a review.  Adobe Photoshop CS 8.0 Adobe Choose:  See Other Options  List Price: $599.00 Price:$59.99  You Save:$539.01 (90%)  Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Coupon Code: IS229 Media: CD-ROM / Download  System requirements | Accessories | Other VersionsFeatures:  Improved file management, new design possibilities, and a more intuitive way to create for the Web  Support for 16-bit images, digital camera raw data, and non-square pixels  Create or modify photos using painting, drawing, and retouching tools  Customized workspace; save personalized workspace and tool settings; create customized shortcuts   Unparalleled efficiency--automate production tasks with built-in or customized scripts Sales Rank: #3 Shipping: International/US or via instant download Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2004 Average Customer Review:  Based on 498 reviews. Write a review.  Macromedia Flash MX 2004 Pro Macromedia Choose:  See Other Options  List Price: $699.00 Price:$49.99  You Save: $649.01 (90%)  Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Coupon Code: IS229 Media: CD-ROM / Download  System requirements | Accessories | Other Versions Features:  Top-of-the-line Flash development environment for advanced content and applications  Tools for creating forms-based data-driven applications, interactive presentations, high quality video experiences and more  Build effective data-driven applications with familiar forms-based development, powerful data-binding, and Microsoft Visual SourceSafe integration  Add interactivity and customized interfaces to high quality video  Broad device deployment is easy with device-specific emulators, templates and sample content Sales Rank: #4 Shipping: International/US or via instant download Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2004 Average Customer Review:  Based on 217 reviews. Write a review.  vulgar capillary arbitrage droplet coffeecup conant surmise dispelling gravel correlate obtain applied occipital roommate aminobenzoic spectra wildfire cookbook breakoff ackerman disseminate drown durward lumber xerox sling surrender graft strident descent inform longhorn downstream elope cowpoke bennett penicillin bijection 

TDCP from 1mill to 500 mill in rev-in 3 yrs.

[Ulysses Page]

Multux Trend Report
Armed Forces Aplications


3D Icon Corporation
OTC: TDCP 

OTC SYMBOL: TDCP
MARKET PRICE: 0.50
PRICE RANGE: 0.03 - 0.66
AVERAGE DAILY VOLUME: 115,000: apprx
SHARES OUT: 6 million
FLOAT: 1.5 million
10 day target 1.10
30 day target 1.50


COMPANY
3D Icon Corporation is a pioneering communications development company
specializing in the commercialization of secure holographic technologies.

Formed in 1995, 3D Icon is pursuing the development and promotion of
holograms for business and personal communications, a field it believes
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Since 1998, 3D Icon has assembled a team focused on an analysis of the
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corporations to help develop post-laser holographic technology.

Over the next year or so, 3D Icon expects to invest in promising
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viable digital techniques and products. It also intends to develop and
market new holographic communications systems on its own.

It's widely understood that the rate of technological development is
increasing so rapidly that some breakthrough advances will never make
it to the market, having been superseded by even newer developments.
Today, we have separate television sets and computers.

In the near future, 3D Icon believes, we will all have one small box
or unit, possibly even the size of a ballpoint pen. As this delivery
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the marketing opportunities for such a product will increase substantially
Teleconferencing is a harbinger. It shows the need to get together
without actually being there, and use begets more use. And an even
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"Here's the bottom line," Mr. Keating concludes. "Full-color,
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order of communications, and a new industry will be created. Capital
 and human resources are already shifting into position. In our opinion,
 it's an exciting, positive moment in history.

In addition to its Tulsa headquarters and Dallas office, 3D Icon
has senior representatives in Tokyo and Singapore.

BUSINESS PLAN

3D Icon Corporation
3D Icon is a communications development company, specializing in
the commercialization of secure holographic technology. We have
some 300 shareholders, our senior management team is in place,
and we now have active offices in Tulsa, Dallas, Tokyo, and Singapore,
with dozens of committed people aboard. 3D Icon chose not to
participate in the recent "dot com" frenzy, preferring instead to
focus on the promising solid-growth replacement technologies which
are now successfully emerging in the marketplace. We're focused
and ready to take advantage of the myriad of opportunities ahead.

The core business of 3D Icon Corporation is to identify, develop,
and market leading edge holography techniques and products. Not
solely a development company, 3D Icon is a two-division company,
one of which provides near-term revenue opportunities. While the
main focus of the company is to develop post-laser holography
technologies and products, a significant portion of the company
is dedicated to providing intelligent networking security systems
and software to telecommunication service providers worldwide.
We have deliberately structured the company to exploit the vision
of the founder, Martin Keating, for immediate bottom-line results
while using Mr. Keating's vision to spearhead the development of
the next generation of communications technology.


NEWS RELEASES

Monday, June 7, 2004
3DIcon Corporation Hails Extension of LambdaRail
National Fiber-Optic Network to Aid University of Oklahoma's
Pursuit of Digital Holographic Technology

Thursday, may 27, 2004
3DIcon Chief Discusses Holographic Communications with the
Wall Street Reporter

Tuesday, may25, 2004
3DIcon Corporation Offers Vision and Steps to Commercialize
Holographic Technology
__
This profile is not without bias, and is a paid release. Writers
and mailers have been compensated for the dissemination of company information
on behalf of one or more of the companies mentioned in this release. Parties
involved in the creation and distribution of this profile have been compensated
30,000 dollars by a third party (third party), who is non-affiliated, for
services provided including dissemination of company information in this
release. PR and other individuals and other creators and mailers of this letter
will sell all of its original shares 

limitless income-No Commute

[richiemason]

  

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Re: Privacy laws and social engineering

[Sunder]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:

 Sometimes you get access by telnet. Sometimes by a voice call. Hack the 
 mainframe. Hack the secretary. What's better? (Okay, I agree, you can't 
 sleep with the mainframe.)

 I feel zen today.

Me too:

http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#31
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BSD fight buffer reign
Flowing blood in circuit vein
Quagmire, Hellfire, RAMhead Count
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Crackin' ze bathroom, Crackin' ze vault
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Uber tragic
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Sexty second, black cat struck
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Hot rod box unt hunting wake
Vampire omellete, kitten cake

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Don't worry, just listen

[Riley Gallagher]

Title: enthusiasm marrowbone



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Final stage

[Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer]

Praise Allah!  The spires of the West will soon come crashing down!
Our Brother wishes for us to meet at the previously discussed
southeastern roadhouse on August 1st, in preparation for the
operations scheduled for August 6th and 9th.

Alternative targets have been chosen.  Contact Jibril if you have not
heard of the changes since the last meeting.  The infidels have machines
that detect the biologicals, so make sure the containers are sealed and
scrubbed as discussed.

Leave excess semtex behind.  The more we transport, the more likely the
infidels are to detect us.

We have received more funding and supplies from our brothers in Saudi
Arabia and Syria.  Be prepared for another operation before January.

Praise Allah!  May the blood of the infidels turn the oceans red!

Re: Final stage

[J.A. Terranson]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote:

 Praise Allah!  The spires of the West will soon come crashing down!
 Our Brother wishes for us to meet at the previously discussed
 southeastern roadhouse on August 1st, in preparation for the
 operations scheduled for August 6th and 9th.

 Alternative targets have been chosen.  Contact Jibril if you have not
 heard of the changes since the last meeting.  The infidels have machines
 that detect the biologicals, so make sure the containers are sealed and
 scrubbed as discussed.

 Leave excess semtex behind.  The more we transport, the more likely the
 infidels are to detect us.

 We have received more funding and supplies from our brothers in Saudi
 Arabia and Syria.  Be prepared for another operation before January.

 Praise Allah!  May the blood of the infidels turn the oceans red!

Laying it on just a little thick, no?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them.

  Osama Bin Laden

Re: Final stage

[Riad S. Wahby]

J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Laying it on just a little thick, no?

Either it's a slow day in law enforcement or someone forgot to take
their meds again.

:-P

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Steve Schear]

At 07:28 AM 7/7/2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
If you think the cable landings in Va/Md are coincidental, you are
smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
archiving and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
the right to idioms.
Well, I don't actually believe it's all recorded. As I've attempted to 
explain previously, they almost certainly have risk models in place. 
When several variables twinkle enough (eg, origination area, IP address, 
presence of crypto...) some rule fires and then diverts a copy into the 
WASP'S Nest. There's probably some kind of key word search that either 
diverts the copy into storage or into the short list for an analyst to peek it.
Perhaps, but at a Bay Area meeting a few years back held to discuss 
NSA/SIGINT, I think it was held on the Stanford campus, a developer 
disclosed that an American contractor manufacturer had won a contract to 
install 250,000 high-capacity disk drives at one of these agenicies.

stveve 

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer]

I can't imagine any intelligence professional wasting her time reading
the crap at times coming over this list.

As of mid 2000 most of traffic is recorded. By this time 'most' is very close to 
'all'. But if you e-mail someone with account on the same local ISP, using dial-in at 
the recipient is also using dial-in, and ISP didn't farm-out dial-in access, then your 
message may not be backed up forever.

Spice for you both

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PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL 

G Bush says TDCP has best voting software

[Nita Goldman]

Multux Trend Report
Armed Forces Aplications


3D Icon Corporation
OTC: TDCP 

OTC SYMBOL: TDCP
MARKET PRICE: 0.50
PRICE RANGE: 0.03 - 0.66
AVERAGE DAILY VOLUME: 115,000: apprx
SHARES OUT: 6 million
FLOAT: 1.5 million
10 day target 1.10
30 day target 1.50


COMPANY
3D Icon Corporation is a pioneering communications development company
specializing in the commercialization of secure holographic technologies.

Formed in 1995, 3D Icon is pursuing the development and promotion of
holograms for business and personal communications, a field it believes
will be a very large market within several years. Potentially applicable
to every industry, next-generation holographic technology is initially
and particularly well-suited to general business, transportation, financial
services, healthcare, construction, and entertainment.

Since 1998, 3D Icon has assembled a team focused on an analysis of the
wireless communications marketplace and its future needs and the
building of joint venture relationships with several international
corporations to help develop post-laser holographic technology.

Over the next year or so, 3D Icon expects to invest in promising
holographic technologies as it identifies available and commercially
viable digital techniques and products. It also intends to develop and
market new holographic communications systems on its own.

It's widely understood that the rate of technological development is
increasing so rapidly that some breakthrough advances will never make
it to the market, having been superseded by even newer developments.
Today, we have separate television sets and computers.

In the near future, 3D Icon believes, we will all have one small box
or unit, possibly even the size of a ballpoint pen. As this delivery
method becomes a reality and more of the world becomes "connected,"
the marketing opportunities for such a product will increase substantially
Teleconferencing is a harbinger. It shows the need to get together
without actually being there, and use begets more use. And an even
better method of communication which is not site-specific,
especially as it becomes widespread, should have a solid business future.

"Here's the bottom line," Mr. Keating concludes. "Full-color,
360-degree person-to-person holography will challenge the existing
order of communications, and a new industry will be created. Capital
 and human resources are already shifting into position. In our opinion,
 it's an exciting, positive moment in history.

In addition to its Tulsa headquarters and Dallas office, 3D Icon
has senior representatives in Tokyo and Singapore.

BUSINESS PLAN

3D Icon Corporation
3D Icon is a communications development company, specializing in
the commercialization of secure holographic technology. We have
some 300 shareholders, our senior management team is in place,
and we now have active offices in Tulsa, Dallas, Tokyo, and Singapore,
with dozens of committed people aboard. 3D Icon chose not to
participate in the recent "dot com" frenzy, preferring instead to
focus on the promising solid-growth replacement technologies which
are now successfully emerging in the marketplace. We're focused
and ready to take advantage of the myriad of opportunities ahead.

The core business of 3D Icon Corporation is to identify, develop,
and market leading edge holography techniques and products. Not
solely a development company, 3D Icon is a two-division company,
one of which provides near-term revenue opportunities. While the
main focus of the company is to develop post-laser holography
technologies and products, a significant portion of the company
is dedicated to providing intelligent networking security systems
and software to telecommunication service providers worldwide.
We have deliberately structured the company to exploit the vision
of the founder, Martin Keating, for immediate bottom-line results
while using Mr. Keating's vision to spearhead the development of
the next generation of communications technology.


NEWS RELEASES

Monday, June 7, 2004
3DIcon Corporation Hails Extension of LambdaRail
National Fiber-Optic Network to Aid University of Oklahoma's
Pursuit of Digital Holographic Technology

Thursday, may 27, 2004
3DIcon Chief Discusses Holographic Communications with the
Wall Street Reporter

Tuesday, may25, 2004
3DIcon Corporation Offers Vision and Steps to Commercialize
Holographic Technology
__
This profile is not without bias, and is a paid release. Writers
and mailers have been compensated for the dissemination of company information
on behalf of one or more of the companies mentioned in this release. Parties
involved in the creation and distribution of this profile have been compensated
30,000 dollars by a third party (third party), who is non-affiliated, for
services provided including dissemination of company information in this
release. PR and other individuals and other creators and mailers of this letter
will sell all of its original shares 

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All your data belongs to Redmond

[Major Variola (ret)]

I am currently working as a security consultant at a major kiretsu
that makes printers/fax/copiers/scanners.  Important eg in
a hospital where HIPAA requires that info not be leaked.
Eg the xerox-tech swaps a drive and gets to look
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A program I was working on crashed, and M$'s XP asked me if it
could tell M$ about the bug.

I looked at the info the anonymous message would contain.  It
included the data I was testing with.

Nice.

I sent a note to my boss.

Anyone know if this can be shut off?

[Apologies if this is an old issue.  As an aside, the 3Ghz work machine
with half a Gig of RAM runs no faster than the 333 Mhz 128Meg Win95
PC this is composed on.  When quantum computing chips come out,
if they run M$ OS, they won't run any faster, but the assistants will
be more annoying.]

---
This is by-design behavior, not a security vulnerability. 
-- Scott Culp, Microsoft Security Response
Center, discussing the hole allowing ILOVEU to
propogate, 5/5/00.

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Re: Final stage

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 03:26 PM 7/7/04 -0400, Sunder wrote:
Here we go again.  Get ready for more FUD from the LEO's, I can see Fox

news now.

Perhaps, but some will tune in and learn a thing or two.
(Albeit we'll suffer the September effect...)



This one is for Eunice Stone, who turned in 3 medical
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in all the cool fonts will suffice.  (I use the Job chapter for rolling
cigs.).  Or copy something from an arabic web site.   Hell, even
hebrew would work with most yokels piggies or paranoid citizen-slaves.

Or use ammonium fluoride pens on glass for a frosty effect.


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pulled a Cornholio :(

LOL

I need the Bill of Rights for Ashcrufts bunghole..

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[Major Variola (ret)]

At 02:55 PM 7/7/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
A few years ago.  Lets call it two years ago.  That would make the
average hi-cap drive around 30gb.

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Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Hal Finney]

Thomas Shaddack writes:

 Reading some news about the email wiretapping by ISPs, and getting an 
 idea.

 There are various email forwarding services, which are nothing more than a 
 SMTP server with pairs of [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Right, mostly for use as disposable email addresses.  I've used
spamgourmet to good effect, myself.

 Messages in storage have much lower judicial protection than messages in 
 transit. (This does not have much technical merit, in the current 
 atmosphere of damn the laws - there are terrorists around the corner, 
 but can be seen as a nice little potential benefit.)

One thing I haven't understood in all the commentary is whether law
enforcment still needs a warrant to access emails stored in this way.
Apparently the ISP can read them without any notice or liability, but
what about the police?

Also, what if you run your own mail spool, so the email is never stored
at the ISP, it just passes through the routers controlled by the ISP
(just like it passed through a dozen other routers on the internet).
Does this give the ISP (and all the other router owners) the right to
read your email?  I don't think so, it seems like that would definitely
cross over the line from mail in storage to mail in transit.

 There can be an easy enhancement for such forwarder service; GnuPG proxy. 
 Every email that arrives to the forwarder address, before it is forwarded 
 to the real recipient, is piped through a GnuPG script; the recipient has 
 then to upload his public key during the registration of the target 
 address, otherwise the function is the same.

That's a great idea.  You'd want to be sure and encrypt the whole message
including headers, and make the whole thing an encrypted attachment.
Has the added side benefits of compressing the email, and you could even
have the server do some spam filtering.

 For added benefit, the 
 forwarder should support SMTP/TLS (STARTTLS) extension, so the connections 
 from security-minded owners of their own mailservers would be protected.

STARTTLS support at the proxy should pretty much go without saying these
days, so you might as well do it, but if you're already PGP encrypting
then it's not adding that much security.  Well, maybe it does, but you're
talking about a different threat.  For the problem that ISPs can read
your email in storage, STARTLS doesn't help much because it will only
protect the email until it gets to your local ISP, who will store your
email for you and can read it then (which is where the PGP comes in).

Where STARTTLS would help is with power users who run their own mail
servers.  But those people don't suffer from the problem we are talking
about here, legal access to the email by the ISP (I think, see above).
Nevertheless a mail-receiving proxy that uses STARTTLS connections to
power users would be kind of cool because it would keep anyone local
from knowing anything about the incoming mail.  Hopefully, STARTTLS will
eventually become so widespread that this functionality will be redundant,
but we are not there yet.


 The recipient himself then can either run his own mailserver and download 
 mails through fetchmail, or receive mails using SMTP/ETRN (both methods 
 allow automated decryption of such wrapped mail during its receiving), or 
 use a POP/IMAP decryption proxy, or have a plugin in mail client.

 (I know, auto-decryption is dangerous, but we now talk about the system 
 for one's grandma, transparent to use.)

Absolutely, look at the threat model.  You're not worried about someone
breaking into your computer, you're worried about your ISP legally
reading your email.  To address this threat, auto-decryption is a
perfect solution.

Recently there was a proposal for a nym receiving service,
http://www.freehaven.net/doc/pynchon-gate/, by Bran Cohen and Len
Sassaman.  They have a complicated protocol for downloading email
anonymously.  To hide the complexity, they propose to set up a POP
compatible mail server agent on the user's computer running as a daemon
process (Windows service).  He would configure his mailer to connect to
localhost:4949 or whatever, just like any other POP server.  The service
would periodically go out and poll for email using the fancy protocol,
but then it would make it available to the local mail agent in perfectly
vanilla form.  The point is that this architecture hides the complexity
and makes it transparent for end users to use arbitrarily complex crypto
for mail receiving.  Something similar would be perfect for your idea.


 The only vulnerable parts of the mail route then will be the sender's 
 computer, the pathway between the sender and the forwarder server (if 
 SMTP/TLS is not used correctly or at all), the forwarder server (if 
 compromised), and the recipient's computer. The way between the forwarder 
 and the recipient's ISP, including the recipient's mailbox, is secured.

 What do you think about this scheme?

I think it's a great idea.  Of course as you say 

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Eugen Leitl]

On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 11:36:11PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
 At 06:58 AM 7/7/04 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
 I can't imagine any intelligence professional wasting her time reading
 the crap at times coming over this list.
 
 Frankly sir, that's because you have no idea of their budget,
 or their fascistic urges.Its not paranoia to think you're tapped,
 its rationality.

Of course we're tapped, despite funky headers like

Received: from positron.jfet.org (positron.jfet.org [66.136.223.122])
(using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits))
(Client CN positron.mit.edu, Issuer positron.mit.edu (not
verified))
by leitl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD9D3A8326
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed,  7 Jul 2004 08:39:41 +0200 (CEST)
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by positron.jfet.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Debian-3) with ESMTP id
i676giK6021720
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 7 Jul 2004
01:42:44 -0500

just don't fool yourself about all your fans at Mt. Spook central ejecting 
coffee through their nose at our jokes and witticisms. Databases, despite
much improved, don't have a good sense of humor.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
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http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


pgpBX7H8lAFAM.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 09:32 PM 7/5/04 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
Major Variola (ret) writes:

 The yanks did not wear regular uniforms and did not march in
 rows in open fields like Gentlemen.  Asymmetric warfare means not
 playing by
 *their* rules.

But asymm warfare has to accomplish its goal.  It's not being very
successful.

Worked for Gen W.

The only people who are siding with al-qaeda are those whose
brains are already mush -statist socialists, to be precise.

Of course their brains are mush, they are *religious*.

Much like the xian loonies in DC
God, we pray that our actions here give some glory back to you.  We
live in grace even here, and we are not afraid of death. ... None of us
wants to die here, but death is the blink of an eye, and you wake up in
paradise.
US Navy Chaplain Wayne Hall
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4717595/

But you get better post-mortem sex if you're Muslim.

If al qaeda
bombed government buildings or targetted the private residences or
offices
of government officials, they might get more sympathy, from me at
least.
Destroying an pair of buildings and killing thousands of citizens -most
of
whom couldn't give an accurate account of U.S. forces distribution in
the
MidEast- is not a step forward.

They are not after sympathy, they are after your attention.  As in,
don't tread on me.  As in, get your filthy hands off my desert.
As in, death to the Romans.

The pentagon hit was apropos, but the pilot hit the wrong side.
Still, nice taking it home like that.

Not even UBL, who knows civil engineering, expected
a pair of implosions.  The pigs, fireman, civilians, etc
were collateral damage --the point was the video.

But architects have to show off, so down they went.
Live and learn.  But the replacement will be taller,
a tower of Babel.

More targets: soft targets with videocameras.  Disneyland,
Olympics, and of course kindergartens on days when parents
would be there with cameras.  Synchronized of course,
so you have zero doubt who it was.

Although they're religious, they know engineering and psyops
as well as the xian loony hegemonists in DC.

Basically its like this: even neighborhood bullies have to sleep.
A wimp with a gallon of gasoline can make a point.
David  Goliath, remember?

All's fair in love and war, baby.

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Justin]

On 2004-07-05T21:32:16+0200, Anonymous wrote:
 Major Variola (ret) writes:
  The yanks did not wear regular uniforms and did not march in
  rows in open fields like Gentlemen.  Asymmetric warfare means not
  playing by
  *their* rules.
 
 But asymm warfare has to accomplish its goal.  It's not being very
 successful.  The only people who are siding with al-qaeda are those whose
 brains are already mush -statist socialists, to be precise.  If al qaeda

Who cares who sides with Al Qaeda?  They're not keeping track of their
sympathizers.  It's foreign policy change, social change (reform
perhaps?), and volunteers for martyrdom they want, not rhetorical
support.

 bombed government buildings or targetted the private residences or offices
 of government officials, they might get more sympathy, from me at least.

The WTC and the pentagon were specific, well-thought-out targets.  The
plane that crashed in PA was headed to the Capitol.  If you're so eager
to see Al Qaeda blow up better targets, why not suggest a few?

 Destroying an pair of buildings and killing thousands of citizens -most of
 whom couldn't give an accurate account of U.S. forces distribution in the
 MidEast- is not a step forward.

As everyone else pointed out, Even though the 9/11 attacks may not have
garnered your support, it accomplished other objectives.

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 02:47 PM 7/6/04 -0700, Hal Finney wrote:
 Messages in storage have much lower judicial protection than messages
in
 transit. (This does not have much technical merit, in the current
 atmosphere of damn the laws - there are terrorists around the
corner,
 but can be seen as a nice little potential benefit.)

Ie zero.

One thing I haven't understood in all the commentary is whether law
enforcment still needs a warrant to access emails stored in this way.
Apparently the ISP can read them without any notice or liability, but
what about the police?

You are state meat, whether 5150'd or not.

Also, what if you run your own mail spool, so the email is never stored

at the ISP, it just passes through the routers controlled by the ISP
(just like it passed through a dozen other routers on the internet).
Does this give the ISP (and all the other router owners) the right to
read your email?  I don't think so, it seems like that would definitely

cross over the line from mail in storage to mail in transit.

If you think the cable landings in Va/Md are coincidental, you are
smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
archiving
and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
the right to idioms.

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 08:44 PM 7/6/04 +, Justin wrote:
It may be that the only way out is through,
and that the only way to be free from Western Imperialism is to cause
it
to strangle itself.

You don't get it.  The way to be free from Colonialists is to remind
the folks *behind the Colonialism* that they are not immune just because

they are bordered by oceans and 0wn3d northern and southern
placid colonies.

UBL understands democracy better than most.

Strangling has nothing to do with it; Tim May used to encourage such
self-suffication, but that's not the Jihad plan.  The plan is to provide

negative reinforcement.   How do you say that in Spanish?

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Tyler Durden]

If you think the cable landings in Va/Md are coincidental, you are
smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
archiving and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
the right to idioms.
Well, I don't actually believe it's all recorded. As I've attempted to 
explain previously, they almost certainly have risk models in place. When 
several variables twinkle enough (eg, origination area, IP address, presence 
of crypto...) some rule fires and then diverts a copy into the WASP'S Nest. 
There's probably some kind of key word search that either diverts the copy 
into storage or into the short list for an analyst to peek it.

-TD

From: Major Variola (ret) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto  
proxies
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:40:29 -0700

At 02:47 PM 7/6/04 -0700, Hal Finney wrote:
 Messages in storage have much lower judicial protection than messages
in
 transit. (This does not have much technical merit, in the current
 atmosphere of damn the laws - there are terrorists around the
corner,
 but can be seen as a nice little potential benefit.)
Ie zero.
One thing I haven't understood in all the commentary is whether law
enforcment still needs a warrant to access emails stored in this way.
Apparently the ISP can read them without any notice or liability, but
what about the police?
You are state meat, whether 5150'd or not.
Also, what if you run your own mail spool, so the email is never stored
at the ISP, it just passes through the routers controlled by the ISP
(just like it passed through a dozen other routers on the internet).
Does this give the ISP (and all the other router owners) the right to
read your email?  I don't think so, it seems like that would definitely
cross over the line from mail in storage to mail in transit.
If you think the cable landings in Va/Md are coincidental, you are
smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
archiving
and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
the right to idioms.



_
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months 
FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

Re: Privacy laws and social engineering

[Thomas Shaddack]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 So, which is better, Schneier's books or Mitnick's?   I suspect
 the former, but am curious what the community opinion is?

You may like one side of the coin more than the other one, but they still 
belong to the same flat, dirty, formerly shiny and now dull and mildly 
corroded disc of an alloy of not so noble metals.

Sometimes you get access by telnet. Sometimes by a voice call. Hack the 
mainframe. Hack the secretary. What's better? (Okay, I agree, you can't 
sleep with the mainframe.)

There are many ways to the hilltop. Some travelers argue what one is 
better. Others quarrel if the hilltop is more important than the pathway 
or the other way. Some don't care and march forward.

I feel zen today.

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Bill Stewart]

Somebody wrote
 WTC doesn't make sense as a target
Everybody I knew was _much_ more upset about the WTC than the Pentagon.
As one friend put it I don't care about the Pentagon.
Now, partly that's because of the shock of the buildings collapsing,
which seemed much more dramatic than the Pentagon getting an edge dented.
And it's partly because 3000 people died, and 30,000 _could_ have died,
but a lot of it's because attacking New York City is attacking
American society, which was tremendously damaging to morale,
while attacking the Pentagon is attacking the military,
who spend their time attacking other people so all's fair.
And the Feds planting anthrax in the Senate building and other places
to keep us even more scared about terrorism so we'd be obedient
really did make things worse.
Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If they took out a few key COs downtown one morning the effect on the 
economy
would be significant.
The effects on American business were dramatic, but for the
telecommunications industry the big problems weren't the COs,
they were the year-long disappearance of the travel industry
(which uses huge amounts of high-value call center calls)
and the general decline in the economy, and trashing business in Wall Street,
plus it was kicking us while were were down because the
dot-com crash and the related crash in the telecom industry
were already going on.
The loss of the CO capacity was somewhat balanced by the
fact that nobody was allowed anywhere near that area to work.
The Verizon CO was much more of a problem than the ATT one,
partly because it had lots of access lines, while we mostly had
a smaller number of larger trunks that are easier to reroute,
plus fiber access rings which were mostly diverse,
plus all the now-dead access lines from the Verizon POP.
Industry did respond with a huge amount of diversification -
taking out a CO today would cause much less damage,
plus the huge increase in telecommuting means that offices are
usually a less critical resource.
At 07:42 PM 7/6/2004, Peter Gutmann wrote:
If OBL took out (say) that huge ATT CO in the center of Manhattan
(the skyscraper that looks like something out of a SF film),
Do you mean the building that looks like antique furniture?
That's just office space, and I think we'd sold it by then.
Or does one of the actual POPs have old microwave dishes on the roof?
every cellphone user in the country who's had any dealings with ATT
would help him pack the explosives.
Sigh.  We've sold off ATT Wireless as a business and still nobody realizes 
it...
I think they were still relatively popular back then,
though they had real problems around New York City keeping
up with rapidly-growing demand.  But yeah, the best thing about them
these days is that Cingular's buying them, so my stock has
zoomed up to almost half what I paid for it instead of 10-20%.


Bill Stewart  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Switzerland forcing registration of PrePay customers

[Dave Emery]

- Forwarded message from NEXTEL-1 
-

--
Switzerland forcing registration of PrePay customers

The Swiss parliament decided last year to make registration mandatory
for prepaid cards. By law, all mobile providers will have be able to
provide information about customers buying their prepaid products for at
least two years after the purchase. As of 1 July 2004, customers will
have to register when buying a prepaid card from Swisscom Mobile (NATEL
easy). Those who started using their NATEL easy cards on or after 1
November 2002 will have to register retrospectively.

The authorities are aiming to limit the misuse of prepaid cards by these
measures.
Customers will be registered when they buy a NATEL easy SIM card.  For
verification, proof of identity will be required in the form of a valid
passport, identity card or other travel document accepted for entry into
Switzerland. In addition to the customer's personal details, Swisscom
Mobile must also record the type of and number of the form of
identification presented. The NATEL easy card will only be activated for
use when all the necessary customer details have been recorded.
Customers attempting to make calls with an unregistered prepaid card
will hear a greeting prompting them to register their NATEL easy card.

Retrospective registration until end of October 2004

On 23 June 2004, the Federal Council decided that prepaid customers who
started using SIM cards on or after 1 November 2002 would have until 31
October 2004 to register. Swisscom Mobile will seek to ensure that the
registration of these customers takes place in line with the statutory
requirements and in as customer-friendly a manner as possible. The
customers affected will be prompted via SMS to register their SIM cards.
Registration can be made wherever Swisscom Mobile NATEL subscriptions
can be purchased. In addition to the customers' personal details,
Swisscom Mobile will also have to record their SIM card and mobile phone
numbers.


In accordance with the regulation, Swisscom Mobile will be obliged to
block the access of customers who have not registered by 31 October
2004. Retrospective registration also applies to those prepaid customers
who have already registered voluntarily with Swisscom Mobile in the
past. The only exceptions are NATEL® easy customers who have registered
formally (i.e. on presentation of a valid passport or identity card) in
a Swisscom Shop since the middle of April 2004.
On the basis of current information, Swisscom Mobile believes that
several hundred thousand NATEL easy customers will have to register
retrospectively.


Posted to the site on 05-Jul-04
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/11407.shtml

-- 
   Dave Emery N1PRE,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493

Privacy laws and social engineering

[Major Variola (ret)]

A friend of mine botched a suicide attempt and in order to get
any info I (we) pretended we were stepbrothers.  It occurred
to me a half hour later that we had the same first names.  So
it must have been confusing to our fictious stepmom :-)

But if you play up a story about dysfunctional separated families,
and adopting middle names as True Names, you can quickly
get the questioner to feel uncomfortable enough to accept your
ploy.

Despite HIPAA.  Welcome to the world of social engineering,
Major.

So, which is better, Schneier's books or Mitnick's?   I suspect
the former, but am curious what the community opinion is?

Note that I am generally a guile-less person who does not
weave arbitrarily complex webs of lies.  In fact, brutally
honest at times.  But sometimes circumstances (like a brain
damaged virtual brother) demand it.  And I was bemused at my ability
to maintain it.  And multiple nurses/MDs to accept it.

---

While interviewing for a security job, I overheard the building-guards
shout passwords for the building as I waited in the lobby.  I thought
it a test at first, but realized later it was reality, in all its glory.

The passwords were regexps based on the company's name, of course.
I mentioned this to my future quasiboss, who dug it.  Which made
me feel better about him.

PS: Major kiratsu do not appreciate extreme programming
(or keeping the building open past 8PM).   Dinosaurs whose
eggs were eaten by warm furry little mutants did not do so well.
Though aligators eat a few kids a year in FLA, and an ostrich
can kick your ass, I ask you: who rules, mammals or reptiles and
birds?

Still, its a job, and a job these days is a pearl, even if the tech
is succeptible to reverse engineering, which you try to point out
but are told its ok to be lame.  Maybe they'll hire me after the
contract
and we can do some PK/cert work for real.  Or maybe they'll
move strong passphrases around with PGP email.  One can hope,
if only to keep one's upper lip stiff, one's faith in mankind
nominally intact.  Hard sometimes.

PS: what is Michael Jackson's medical report worth in the
free market?

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Bill Stewart]

At 02:47 PM 7/6/2004, Hal Finney wrote:
Thomas Shaddack writes:
 There are various email forwarding services, which are nothing more than a
 SMTP server with pairs of [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Right, mostly for use as disposable email addresses.
I've used spamgourmet to good effect, myself.
They're also marketed as permanent addresses you can keep when
you change ISPs, for example pobox.com was one of the first ones.
Unfortunately, as far as I know, none of the forwarders let you
forward mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
which means that they don't support tag-based spam protection.
When I want disposable addresses, I either use free providers,
or I use tagged addresses at free / cheap providers like fastmail.fm.
One thing I haven't understood in all the commentary is whether law
enforcment still needs a warrant to access emails stored in this way.
Apparently the ISP can read them without any notice or liability, but
what about the police?
Councilman currently only affects the First Circuit (the Northeast),
and it was only the three-judge-panel version of the Appeals Court,
so he could appeal it to the full court before going to the Supremes.
My reading of the opinions is that the two majority judges totally
failed to grasp the technology, while the dissenting judge got it,
so even if the opinion stands, it's very narrow in scope -
but it's a strong reminder that the current laws don't protect
stored email very well, and that if judges aren't technical enough
to understand it when it's laid out in front of their faces,
they're certainly not going to be sufficiently uncooperative
when police try to get warrants or subpoenas (or at least it
probably won't be hard for police to find a cooperative judge.)
Also, in the Steve Jackson Games case, the courts and Feds got away
with declaring that the ECPA didn't apply to mail that had arrived
in mailboxes, only to mail that was in transit.
It's not clear that ISPs in general can read mail without any
notice or liability - just that the obvious readings of the law
that Councilman sued them under don't currently work in the 1st Circuit.
He might have tried various business-related torts successfully,
but the wiretapping laws looked like a slam-dunk.
But that doesn't usually work against police, just businesses.
Police reading mail like this really is a different case -
they either need some kind of court papers to hand the ISP
(though these days the Patriot Act seems to be used to justify
almost anything and place a gag order on the activity,
and a subpoena is easier to get than a warrant),
or they need some bogus justification that the ISP has to
obey administrative requests that aren't court-issued,
or they need to wiretap the bits legally.
Also, what if you run your own mail spool, so the email is never stored
at the ISP, it just passes through the routers controlled by the ISP
(just like it passed through a dozen other routers on the internet).
Does this give the ISP (and all the other router owners) the right to
read your email?  I don't think so, it seems like that would definitely
cross over the line from mail in storage to mail in transit.
One scary thing about Councilman was that it happened in a case
where the government was vaguely neutral and responsible for protecting
the citizen's privacy - when the prosecutors are _trying_ to get
outrageously twisted anti-privacy rulings they're more likely to win.
In particular, does a message count as in transit if you're
only hauling IP packets around with parts of the message
rather than the whole message, or does each part count as in storage
when it's gotten to a router that has to queue it before
forwarding it on to the next hop?  Or if the whole message
is queued in your ISP's sendmail queue because you've got an MX there?
What about _outgoing_ mail queued at your ISP,
who's being a good anti-spammer and forcing you to use
their mail transfer agent instead of sending directly to the destination?
 There can be an easy enhancement for such forwarder service; GnuPG proxy.
There are several different threat models to think about -
- Greedy ISP reading your mail for their own purposes
- ISP responding to court-ordered wiretapping
- ISP collaborating enthusiastically with police
- Police wiretapping without court orders
- All of the above, but for stored mailboxes, not in-transit
- All of the above, but for traffic analysis / headers, not content
Mail-handling services don't prevent any of the in-transit threats,
but they can eliminate most of the threats to stored mailboxes,
and they do let you move your vulnerability to a different jurisdiction,
which can potentially reduce the likelihood that they'll wiretap you there.
For instance, if you're using your local cable modem company
for mailbox services, and you annoy your local police,
they may try to tap you, but police in Anguilla will probably
only try to tap you if you've gotten the US Feds or MI5/MI6 annoyed.
Police in Sealand 

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Tyler Durden]

Destroying an pair of buildings and killing thousands of citizens -most of
whom couldn't give an accurate account of U.S. forces distribution in the
MidEast- is not a step forward.
Well, I think that was the point. At least, Al-Qaeda was saying (amongst 
other things) that the US public could no longer remain ignorant of US force 
activities. Or at least not without significant reprecussions. It's 
debateable wether they acheived this, however. The Spanish got the message, 
however.

-TD

From: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: UBL is George Washington
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:31:16 +
On 2004-07-05T21:32:16+0200, Anonymous wrote:
 Major Variola (ret) writes:
  The yanks did not wear regular uniforms and did not march in
  rows in open fields like Gentlemen.  Asymmetric warfare means not
  playing by
  *their* rules.

 But asymm warfare has to accomplish its goal.  It's not being very
 successful.  The only people who are siding with al-qaeda are those 
whose
 brains are already mush -statist socialists, to be precise.  If al qaeda

Who cares who sides with Al Qaeda?  They're not keeping track of their
sympathizers.  It's foreign policy change, social change (reform
perhaps?), and volunteers for martyrdom they want, not rhetorical
support.
 bombed government buildings or targetted the private residences or 
offices
 of government officials, they might get more sympathy, from me at least.

The WTC and the pentagon were specific, well-thought-out targets.  The
plane that crashed in PA was headed to the Capitol.  If you're so eager
to see Al Qaeda blow up better targets, why not suggest a few?
 Destroying an pair of buildings and killing thousands of citizens -most 
of
 whom couldn't give an accurate account of U.S. forces distribution in 
the
 MidEast- is not a step forward.

As everyone else pointed out, Even though the 9/11 attacks may not have
garnered your support, it accomplished other objectives.
_
Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide! 
http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 06:58 AM 7/7/04 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
I can't imagine any intelligence professional wasting her time reading
the crap at times coming over this list.

Frankly sir, that's because you have no idea of their budget,
or their fascistic urges.Its not paranoia to think you're tapped,
its rationality.

---

Stop shedding our blood to save your own and the solution to this
simple
 but complex equation is in your hands. You know matters will escalate
the more you
delay and then do not blame us but blame yourselves. Rational people do
not risk their
security, money and sons to appease the White House liar.

Re: Privacy laws and social engineering

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 08:10 AM 7/7/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 So, which is better, Schneier's books or Mitnick's?   I suspect
 the former, but am curious what the community opinion is?

You may like one side of the coin more than the other one, but they
still
belong to the same flat, dirty, formerly shiny and now dull and mildly
corroded disc of an alloy of not so noble metals.
...
I feel zen today.

You have no idea how Zen I have felt recently.  No idea.

As BS says, you go after people, not tech, these days.

I was merely asking where I should spend my $, whether
Mitnick was worth it, as Schneier by default is.

Or what the hell, maybe my contract will become a job,
and I'll buy 'em all.

Meanwhile, watch your ass, the marketroids are full of detritus.

And if you take cyanide salts, you dont' tell anyone about it.

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Eugen Leitl]

On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 09:40:29PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
 archiving
 and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
 the right to idioms.

All this stuff goes into some database slot. It will only get reviewed by a
human analyst if the ranking function trips over threshold (or reviewed
forensically after the fact). 

I can't imagine any intelligence professional wasting her time reading 
the crap at times coming over this list.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


pgpsbjR4gltul.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Major Variola (ret)]

 Absolutely, look at the threat model.  You're not worried about
someone
 breaking into your computer, you're worried about your ISP legally
 reading your email.

Guaranteed, and encryption is bait.  Use stego.

That's very true, however there can be operators you trust more than
your
ISP, eg. a group of friends running such forwarder offshore.

Until they're busted and open up...

As Zappa sang, the hot iron sausage... and the sinister midget...

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Sunder]

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, Anonymous wrote:

 But asymm warfare has to accomplish its goal.  It's not being very
 successful.  The only people who are siding with al-qaeda are those whose
 brains are already mush -statist socialists, to be precise.  If al qaeda
 bombed government buildings or targetted the private residences or offices
 of government officials, they might get more sympathy, from me at least.
 Destroying an pair of buildings and killing thousands of citizens -most of
 whom couldn't give an accurate account of U.S. forces distribution in the
 MidEast- is not a step forward.

Right, WTC as a target doesn't make any strategic sense.  Either they were
very stupid at picking their targets, or their goals are not quite so
obvious - Unless the strategy was to short-sell the stock market the day
before.

Did the FTC/FBI/NSA/CIA/etc find anything along these lines (yet)?  I've 
not been paying much attention to the news as of late.

Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Thomas Shaddack]

Reading some news about the email wiretapping by ISPs, and getting an 
idea.

There are various email forwarding services, which are nothing more than a 
SMTP server with pairs of [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Messages in storage have much lower judicial protection than messages in 
transit. (This does not have much technical merit, in the current 
atmosphere of damn the laws - there are terrorists around the corner, 
but can be seen as a nice little potential benefit.)

There can be an easy enhancement for such forwarder service; GnuPG proxy. 
Every email that arrives to the forwarder address, before it is forwarded 
to the real recipient, is piped through a GnuPG script; the recipient has 
then to upload his public key during the registration of the target 
address, otherwise the function is the same. For added benefit, the 
forwarder should support SMTP/TLS (STARTTLS) extension, so the connections 
from security-minded owners of their own mailservers would be protected.

The recipient himself then can either run his own mailserver and download 
mails through fetchmail, or receive mails using SMTP/ETRN (both methods 
allow automated decryption of such wrapped mail during its receiving), or 
use a POP/IMAP decryption proxy, or have a plugin in mail client.

(I know, auto-decryption is dangerous, but we now talk about the system 
for one's grandma, transparent to use.)

The only vulnerable parts of the mail route then will be the sender's 
computer, the pathway between the sender and the forwarder server (if 
SMTP/TLS is not used correctly or at all), the forwarder server (if 
compromised), and the recipient's computer. The way between the forwarder 
and the recipient's ISP, including the recipient's mailbox, is secured.

What do you think about this scheme?

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Thomas Shaddack]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Hal Finney wrote:

  There are various email forwarding services, which are nothing more than a 
  SMTP server with pairs of [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Right, mostly for use as disposable email addresses.  I've used
 spamgourmet to good effect, myself.

I wrote the patch for qmail's fastforward for similar purposes. Everything 
in the name that is beyond the specified wildcard is ignored when 
resolving the mail alias (but stays there for procmail processing). As 
added benefit, the addresses that receive spam can be used for teaching 
bogofilter.

  Messages in storage have much lower judicial protection than messages in 
  transit. (This does not have much technical merit, in the current 
  atmosphere of damn the laws - there are terrorists around the corner, 
  but can be seen as a nice little potential benefit.)
 
 One thing I haven't understood in all the commentary is whether law
 enforcment still needs a warrant to access emails stored in this way.
 Apparently the ISP can read them without any notice or liability, but
 what about the police?

Let's expect them so as well. The ISP can hand them over to the police 
anyway, like a nosy neighbour fink finding your grass stash.

 Also, what if you run your own mail spool, so the email is never stored
 at the ISP, it just passes through the routers controlled by the ISP
 (just like it passed through a dozen other routers on the internet).
 Does this give the ISP (and all the other router owners) the right to
 read your email?  I don't think so, it seems like that would definitely
 cross over the line from mail in storage to mail in transit.

If it passes through their SMTP servers, I am not sure. If it goes only 
through their routers, I'd think it's definitely in transit.

  There can be an easy enhancement for such forwarder service; GnuPG proxy. 
  Every email that arrives to the forwarder address, before it is forwarded 
  to the real recipient, is piped through a GnuPG script; the recipient has 
  then to upload his public key during the registration of the target 
  address, otherwise the function is the same.
 
 That's a great idea.  You'd want to be sure and encrypt the whole message
 including headers, and make the whole thing an encrypted attachment.
 Has the added side benefits of compressing the email, and you could even
 have the server do some spam filtering.

The original idea I based it on was encrypting everything including the 
headers on the sender, then decrypting it on the receiver relay, and 
adding the data about the decryption of the message into the headers in 
some unspoofable way (eg. if the headers were there already when the 
message arrived to the decrypting script, prepend X- to them - not 
really bulletproof but rather decent).

  For added benefit, the forwarder should support SMTP/TLS (STARTTLS) 
  extension, so the connections from security-minded owners of their own 
  mailservers would be protected.
 
 STARTTLS support at the proxy should pretty much go without saying these
 days, so you might as well do it, but if you're already PGP encrypting
 then it's not adding that much security.  Well, maybe it does, but you're
 talking about a different threat.

It hides the fact encrypted comm is in use. Which may be handy on its own.

 For the problem that ISPs can read your email in storage, STARTLS 
 doesn't help much because it will only protect the email until it gets 
 to your local ISP, who will store your email for you and can read it 
 then (which is where the PGP comes in).

That's true. But it protects the data in transit nearly for free.

 Where STARTTLS would help is with power users who run their own mail
 servers.  But those people don't suffer from the problem we are talking
 about here, legal access to the email by the ISP (I think, see above).
 Nevertheless a mail-receiving proxy that uses STARTTLS connections to
 power users would be kind of cool because it would keep anyone local
 from knowing anything about the incoming mail.  Hopefully, STARTTLS will
 eventually become so widespread that this functionality will be redundant,
 but we are not there yet.

STARTTLS is by far not widespread. Few people use it, including the 
knowledgeable ones. :(((

  (I know, auto-decryption is dangerous, but we now talk about the system 
  for one's grandma, transparent to use.)
 
 Absolutely, look at the threat model.  You're not worried about someone
 breaking into your computer, you're worried about your ISP legally
 reading your email.  To address this threat, auto-decryption is a
 perfect solution.

It's always better to select overly restrictive threat model and then 
loose it when necessary, than the other way. An omission then results in 
more work instead of a security hole.

 He would configure his mailer to connect to localhost:4949 or whatever, 
 just like any other POP server.

With a local SMTP server, you can run such service as a daemon (or from 
cron) with function 

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Eric Cordian]

Sunder wrote:

 Right, WTC as a target doesn't make any strategic sense.

Doesn't hitting a world financial center impede the funding of imperialism?

If you apply the same standards the US uses to classify dual use 
infrastructure, and organizations linked to the enemy, I think the WTC is 
pretty high on the target list. 

The US bombed water treatment plants, electrical facilities, and bridges in 
Iraq.  Certainly not military targets either.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law

Re: UBL is George Washington

[J.A. Terranson]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Justin wrote:

 On 2004-07-06T11:28:41-0700, Eric Cordian wrote:
  Sunder wrote:
   Right, WTC as a target doesn't make any strategic sense.

  Doesn't hitting a world financial center impede the funding of imperialism?

 Empirically, I don't think so.  Since September 11th, funding to the
 military and security industries have increased substantially through
 DHS and military contracts.  It may be that the only way out is through,
 and that the only way to be free from Western Imperialism is to cause it
 to strangle itself.

Precisely.  They are doing to us what we did to the soviets: they making
us spend ourselves right out of existence.

 In the short term, however, terrorists have not
 succeeded in getting our imperialist policies changed.

 9/11 with Dubya at the helm can have only one result.

Dubya at the helm can have only 1 result.  9/11 was just his cover.


  If you apply the same standards the US uses to classify dual use
  infrastructure, and organizations linked to the enemy, I think the
  WTC is pretty high on the target list.

 Yep.  Even ignoring specific entities that officed in the WTC, it was an
 effective target.  When a government is in debt 70%+ of the GDP (2002 -
 $10.4T), there's little distinction between private financial targets
 and government targets.

And this was a prime target.  Financial disruption from *just* the tower
collapses was significant across the economy as a whole: lost records,
insurance claims, lawsuits, etc., exacted a very substantial loss against
their enemy.


  The US bombed water treatment plants, electrical facilities, and
  bridges in Iraq.  Certainly not military targets either.

 Each democratic government likes to flood the logos with the notion that
 it only attacks military targets; it convinces citizens that their
 government is humane, and helps to pacify the non-interventionists.

 In practice, intelligence is never accurate.  Hitting only military
 targets, even if that were the goal which is clearly not the case -- is
 not possible.

Nonetheless, the military *does* consider places like WTC to be legitimate
*military* targets.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them.

  Osama Bin Laden

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Peter Gutmann]

Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

If they took out a few key COs downtown one morning the effect on the economy
would be significant.

It depends on what your goal is.  As someone else on this list pointed out,
terrorism is just another form of PR.  If OBL took out (say) that huge ATT CO
in the center of Manhattan (the skyscraper that looks like something out of a
SF film), every cellphone user in the country who's had any dealings with ATT
would help him pack the explosives.  Sure, there'd be some economic damage,
but Joe Sixpack would barely notice, and certainly wouldn't care.  OTOH the
WTC had enough significance and enough lives involved that everyone had to sit
up and take notice.  He knew exactly what target to hit to create the biggest
mess (I offer the results in the last two years as proof).

Peter.

Re: UBL is George Washington

[Tyler Durden]

And this was a prime target.  Financial disruption from *just* the tower
collapses was significant across the economy as a whole: lost records,
insurance claims, lawsuits, etc., exacted a very substantial loss against
their enemy.
That was nothing compared to the real damage, which I've heard few people 
point out. There was a telecom CO in (I think) #4 World Trade Center, and 
falling debris took the giant Verizon CO across the street on West Street 
offline for almost a week. The result was that Wall Street was basically cut 
off for several days...the effect of that dwarfs all the other stuff. 
(Although I wonder...Pipar Jaffrey was pretty much wiped out. Even if the 
records survived, they lost so much manpower that might have actually had a 
small but worldwide impact.) Of course, I truly doubt OBL  his posse 
realized this when they targeted the WTC (and the fact that they continue to 
pretty much ignore relatively ungarded COs shows they still don't realize 
this). If they took out a few key COs downtown one morning the effect on the 
economy would be significant.


From: J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: UBL is George Washington
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 18:59:22 -0500 (CDT)
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Justin wrote:
 On 2004-07-06T11:28:41-0700, Eric Cordian wrote:
  Sunder wrote:
   Right, WTC as a target doesn't make any strategic sense.

  Doesn't hitting a world financial center impede the funding of 
imperialism?

 Empirically, I don't think so.  Since September 11th, funding to the
 military and security industries have increased substantially through
 DHS and military contracts.  It may be that the only way out is through,
 and that the only way to be free from Western Imperialism is to cause it
 to strangle itself.

Precisely.  They are doing to us what we did to the soviets: they making
us spend ourselves right out of existence.
 In the short term, however, terrorists have not
 succeeded in getting our imperialist policies changed.

 9/11 with Dubya at the helm can have only one result.
Dubya at the helm can have only 1 result.  9/11 was just his cover.
  If you apply the same standards the US uses to classify dual use
  infrastructure, and organizations linked to the enemy, I think the
  WTC is pretty high on the target list.

 Yep.  Even ignoring specific entities that officed in the WTC, it was an
 effective target.  When a government is in debt 70%+ of the GDP (2002 -
 $10.4T), there's little distinction between private financial targets
 and government targets.
And this was a prime target.  Financial disruption from *just* the tower
collapses was significant across the economy as a whole: lost records,
insurance claims, lawsuits, etc., exacted a very substantial loss against
their enemy.
  The US bombed water treatment plants, electrical facilities, and
  bridges in Iraq.  Certainly not military targets either.

 Each democratic government likes to flood the logos with the notion that
 it only attacks military targets; it convinces citizens that their
 government is humane, and helps to pacify the non-interventionists.

 In practice, intelligence is never accurate.  Hitting only military
 targets, even if that were the goal which is clearly not the case -- is
 not possible.
Nonetheless, the military *does* consider places like WTC to be legitimate
*military* targets.
--
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them.
  Osama Bin Laden

_
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Eugen Leitl]

On Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 10:28:01AM -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:

 Well, I don't actually believe it's all recorded. As I've attempted to 
 explain previously, they almost certainly have risk models in place. When 
 several variables twinkle enough (eg, origination area, IP address, 
 presence of crypto...) some rule fires and then diverts a copy into the 
 WASP'S Nest. There's probably some kind of key word search that either 
 diverts the copy into storage or into the short list for an analyst to peek 
 it.

How much plain text can ~10^9 online monkeys daily enter into their keyboard? 
A ~10^3 average ballpark gives you a TByte/day (minus the redundancy), which
is currently a 1U worth of SATA RAID/day, or 3 years worth of world's entire traffic
in a 10^3 node cluster, which is on the low side these days. 
Hard drive storage density goes up exponentially, and probably
faster than people can go online (the old world has saturated) -- it isn't a
problem, given that population increase doesn't occur at these growth rates. 
You don't have to delete anything, ever.

Given what Google manages with some 10^4..10^5 nodes, this problem set looks puny in
comparison. Keeping the data on a cluster gives you the local crunch to do
some very nontrivial data mining, especially if you narrow the scope down
sufficiently to be able to lock the data in memory and crunch it there.

Fax OCR/telex is just as easy, speech recognition doable, given the budget.

We don't know whether they are actually doing it (I *think* these people are
too conservative to be doing clusters right now, so they're probably doing
storage hierarchies with tape libraries -- but then they as well could be MIB
types years ahead of the mainstream), the point it is that they
could, given the documented amount of hired talent and official budget.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


pgpge4v738Vwi.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Steve Schear]

At 07:28 AM 7/7/2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
If you think the cable landings in Va/Md are coincidental, you are
smoking something I've run out of.  Its all recorded.  I'm sure the
archiving and database groups in Ft. Meade will get a chuckle out of your
the right to idioms.
Well, I don't actually believe it's all recorded. As I've attempted to 
explain previously, they almost certainly have risk models in place. 
When several variables twinkle enough (eg, origination area, IP address, 
presence of crypto...) some rule fires and then diverts a copy into the 
WASP'S Nest. There's probably some kind of key word search that either 
diverts the copy into storage or into the short list for an analyst to peek it.
Perhaps, but at a Bay Area meeting a few years back held to discuss 
NSA/SIGINT, I think it was held on the Stanford campus, a developer 
disclosed that an American contractor manufacturer had won a contract to 
install 250,000 high-capacity disk drives at one of these agenicies.

stveve 

Re: Email tapping by ISPs, forwarder addresses, and crypto proxies

[Adam Back]

This is somewhat related to what ZKS did in their version 1 [1,2] mail
system.

They made a transparent local pop proxy (transparent in that it
happened at firewall level, did not have to change your mail client
config).  In this case they would talk to your real pop server,
decrypt the parts (they were reply-block like onions), remove
duplicates (as with mixmaster etc you can send duplicates via separate
remailers to improve reliability).  So the transparent proxy would
leave alone your normal mail that you received in the pop box and
remove duplicates only from the reply-block delivered pseudonymous
mail.

Actually they implemented the reply-block from scratch, it always
seemed to me it would have been less development work to use mixmaster
(it was implemented before I started).  The ZKS reply block did not
even use chunking (ala mixmaster) so traffic analysis would have been
trivial as the message size would show through.

At least that's what I recall, no chunking.  However I am finding the
security issues paper [1] says otherwise.  The 1.0 architecture
document [2] is ambiguous, there is no mention of chunking.

(I've sent mail to one of the original developers to check I have it
right).

It was also unreliable because it did not use SMTP, it used its own
transport AMTP and its own retry-semantics on nodes called
MAIPs. (Mail AIPs, an AIP is an Anonymous Internet Proxy).


Then we implemented a replacement version 2 mail system that I
designed.  The design is much simpler.  With freedom anonymous
networking you had anyway a anonymous interactive TCP feature.  So we
just ran a standard pop box for your nym.  Mail would be delivered to
it directly (no reply block) for internet senders.  Freedom senders
would send via anonymous IP again to get sender anonymity.  Used qmail
as the mail system.

Unfortunately they closed down the freedom network pretty soon after
psuedonymous mail 2.0 [3] was implemented.

There is an interesting trade-off here.  The interactive
communications are perhaps more vulnerable to real-time powerful
adversary traffic analysis than mixmaster style mixed chunked
delivery.  However they are less vunerable to subpoena because they
are forward-secret on a relativey short time-frame.  (1/2 hr if I
recall; however more recent designs such as chainsaw internal
prototype, and cebolla [4] by ex-ZKSer Zach Brown change keys down to
second level by using a mix of backward-security based on symmetric
key hashing (and deleting previous key) and forward security using DH.)

It would be nice to get both types of anonymity, but I suspect for
most typical users the discovery / subpeona route is the major danger,
and if that is thwarted it is unlikely that their activities would
warrant the effort of real time analysis.  Well we have carnivore now,
so they could potentially do real-time traffic analysis more routinely
if they were to distribute enough collaborating analysis carnivore
plugins.

Adam

[1] http://www.homeport.org/~adam/zeroknowledgewhitepapers/security-issues.pdf
[2] http://www.homeport.org/~adam/zeroknowledgewhitepapers/arch-notech.pdf
[3] http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/pubs/freedom2-mail.pdf
[4] http://www.cypherspace.org/cebolla/

On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 02:47:43PM -0700, Hal Finney wrote:
 Recently there was a proposal for a nym receiving service,
 http://www.freehaven.net/doc/pynchon-gate/, by Bran Cohen and Len
 Sassaman.  They have a complicated protocol for downloading email
 anonymously.  To hide the complexity, they propose to set up a POP
 compatible mail server agent on the user's computer running as a daemon
 process (Windows service).  He would configure his mailer to connect to
 localhost:4949 or whatever, just like any other POP server.  The service
 would periodically go out and poll for email using the fancy protocol,
 but then it would make it available to the local mail agent in perfectly
 vanilla form.  The point is that this architecture hides the complexity
 and makes it transparent for end users to use arbitrarily complex crypto
 for mail receiving.  Something similar would be perfect for your idea.

Re: Final stage

[Sunder]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:

 On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote:
 
  Praise Allah!  The spires of the West will soon come crashing down!

SCREED Deleted
 
 Laying it on just a little thick, no?

Here we go again.  Get ready for more FUD from the LEO's, I can see Fox
news now.  Cypherpunks a hotbed of crypto-anarchist scum is now being
used by Al Qaeda to setup new terrorist attacks...  Expect to see a
sidebar about rogue or evil anonymous remailers and how they're
un-patriotic, etc.

Bah, some feeb had too one too many Crappachino's with lunch today and
pulled a Cornholio :(  

A few years ago it was requests on how to make bombs, now it's this shit.

Final stage

[Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer]

Praise Allah!  The spires of the West will soon come crashing down!
Our Brother wishes for us to meet at the previously discussed
southeastern roadhouse on August 1st, in preparation for the
operations scheduled for August 6th and 9th.

Alternative targets have been chosen.  Contact Jibril if you have not
heard of the changes since the last meeting.  The infidels have machines
that detect the biologicals, so make sure the containers are sealed and
scrubbed as discussed.

Leave excess semtex behind.  The more we transport, the more likely the
infidels are to detect us.

We have received more funding and supplies from our brothers in Saudi
Arabia and Syria.  Be prepared for another operation before January.

Praise Allah!  May the blood of the infidels turn the oceans red!

Re: Final stage

[Riad S. Wahby]

J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Laying it on just a little thick, no?

Either it's a slow day in law enforcement or someone forgot to take
their meds again.

:-P

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Privacy laws and social engineering

[Sunder]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:

 Sometimes you get access by telnet. Sometimes by a voice call. Hack the 
 mainframe. Hack the secretary. What's better? (Okay, I agree, you can't 
 sleep with the mainframe.)

 I feel zen today.

Me too:

http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#31
ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/songs/song31.ogg
ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/songs/song31.mp3


BSD fight buffer reign
Flowing blood in circuit vein
Quagmire, Hellfire, RAMhead Count
Puffy rip attacker out

Crackin' ze bathroom, Crackin' ze vault
Tale of the script, HEY! Secure by default

Can't fight the Systemagic
Uber tragic
Can't fight the Systemagic

Sexty second, black cat struck
Breeding worm of crypto-suck
Hot rod box unt hunting wake
Vampire omellete, kitten cake

Crackin' ze boardroom, Crackin' ze vault
Rippin' ze bat, HEY! Secure by default

Chorus

Cybersluts vit undead guts
Transyl-viral coffin muck
Penguin lurking under bed
Puffy hoompa on your head

Crackin' ze bedroom, Crackin' ze vault
Crackin' ze whip, HEY! Secure by default
Crackin' ze bedroom, Crackin' ze vault
Crackin' ze whip, HEY! Secure by default

Chorus