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Re: Recruiting Only Smart People
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--
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Endorse EDRI's Statement Against Data Retention (fwd from brian-slashdotnews@hyperreal.org)
- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 13 Sep 2004 10:26:01 - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Endorse EDRI's Statement Against Data Retention User-Agent: SlashdotNewsScooper/0.0.3 Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/13/0128222 Posted by: timothy, on 2004-09-13 08:31:00 from the but-they're-offering-a-free-backup-service dept. [1]Ville Oksanen writes Privacy International (PI) and European Digital Rights (EDRI) have published their [2]joint answer to [3]the consultation on mandatory data retention. The European Commission asked for public comments on a proposed retention regime across Europe between 12 and 36 months for all traffic data generated by using fixed and mobile telephony and Internet. As [4]Statewatch puts it: 'This is a proposal so intrusive that Ashcroft, Ridge and company can only dream about it, exceeding even the U.S. Patriot Act.' EDRI and PI are currently collecting endorsements from organizations and companies for their stamement [5]here. This is unfortunately not enough to stop the process - expecially more should be done in the member states, which ultimately decide the fate of the proposal. So contact your local politicians today! [6]Click Here References 1. http://www.effi.org/ 2. http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/terrorism/rpt/responsetoretention.html 3. http://europa.eu.int/information_society/topics/ecomm/useful_information/library/public_consult/text_en.htm#data_retention 4. http://www.statewatch.org/ 5. http://www.edri.org/cgi-bin/index?id=00010162 6. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5137alloc_id=11055site_id=1request_id=9560795op=clickpage=%2farticle%2epl - End forwarded message - -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net pgpDeuys1WQvM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
J.A. Terranson wrote: On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote: The forest fire claim sounds more plausible in this regard. An existing cloud could be used for masking, though. Wait a minute: since when does a forest fire create explosions? Or have enough ground force to push up a mushroom cloud? [...] That of course brings us full circle: how many fuels can produce a blast which results in a 2+ mile mushroom? That's a *lot* of explosive force. Doesn't have to work like that. The mushroom cloud is not pushed up by blast, it's carried up by hot air rising, which is replaced by cooler air rushing in below. There was a visible mushroom cloud at Hamburg in 1943 - I'm not sure but I suspect that that may have been the event that put the phrase into the language. FWIW the BBC is now saying that the NKs are claiming it was a civil engineering explosion connected with a hydro project. As with other list members I assume that if the explosion was nuclear someone would have detected EM from it immediately radioactive particles soon after. And I also assume, perhaps with less justification, that at least some of those someones would have made the knowledge public - it must include at least military early warning organisation of China, Russia the US, and very possibly Japan, SK, UK maybe other countries as well, and also probably a number of space agencies and academic researchers. Would they all conspire to suppress knowledge of NK nuclear explosion? And if there was such a test, how long before China stomped all over them. Last thing they want is a looney dictator with nukes on their borders (If only to pre-empt Russia, US, or Japan intervening). Even if both the Chinese state capitalists and the North Korean absolute divine monarchy still use the locally redundant word Communist when describing themselves to us Western barbarians. Sometimes my friend's enemy isn't my enemy's friend.
Re: Spam Spotlight on Reputation
Bill Stewart wrote: At 03:15 PM 9/6/2004, Hadmut Danisch wrote: On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 11:52:03AM -0600, R. A. Hettinga wrote: E-mail security company MX Logic Inc. will report this week that 10 percent of all spam includes such SPF records, I have mentioned this problem more than a year ago in context of my RMX draft (SPF, CallerID and SenderID are based on RMX). Interestingly, nobody really cared about this major security problem. All RMX-derivatives block forged messages (more or less). But what happens if the attacker doesn't forge? That's a hard problem. And a problem known from the very beginning of the sender verification discussion. It's not a hard problem, just a different problem. Whitelisting your friends and aggressively filtering strangers is an obvious technique for reducing false positives without increasing false negatives, but it fails if spammers can forge identities of your friends. RMX-derivatives help this problem, and they help the joe-job problem. If a spammer wants to claim that they're the genuine spammers-are-us.biz, well, let them. I find it more annoying that there are spammers putting PGP headers in their messages, knowing that most people who use PGP assume PGP-signed mail is from somebody genuine and whitelist it. Surely you should check that: a) The signature works b) Is someone in your list of good keys before whitelisting? -- ApacheCon! 13-17 November! http://www.apachecon.com/ http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit. - Robert Woodruff
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Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
Ken Brown wrote... And if there was such a test, how long before China stomped all over them. Last thing they want is a looney dictator with nukes on their borders (If only to pre-empt Russia, US, or Japan intervening). Even if both the Chinese state capitalists and the North Korean absolute divine monarchy still use the locally redundant word Communist when describing themselves to us Western barbarians. I think this pretty much nails it. Actually, I was imagining that there was still enough relationship left between PRC and NK for the Chinese to say, Uh, a nuclear test would not be a good idea, meaning (in Chinese speak), No way you're gonna do that. I'm sure the Chinese at this point regard their relationship with NK as baggage, though I know the Chinese do re-patriate NK refugees, so they're at least maintaining pretenses. -TD _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
At 06:23 PM 9/12/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: I had thought that one of the main tests was seismic...from what I understood, Seismic monitors in the US can detect nu-cu-lar tests (above or below ground) and even guess where and the size of the blast. Yes. Seismic sensors see some foreshock activity before an earthquake including the big ones. A nuke starts instantly. Standard S P wave triangulation gives you the location. You can try to hide a blast (in sand; or in an excavated void) but its tough. At 06:50 AM 9/13/04 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: About 4.5 kT of 50:50 ammonium nitrate/ammonium sulfate mix. One of the largest, if not *the* largest nonnuclear explosions ever. Ammonium sulphate would not have exploded. Its the nitrate that is the fun group. It has an oxygen surplus, so anythign (like the rest of the ship) vaporized by the detonation would probaby burn. Fuel oil is cheap; aluminum dust is more energetic. At 10:40 PM 9/12/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: No FO, just AN all by itself. NH4NO3 turns into N2 + 2H2O + O, Slow decomposition yields nitrous oxide, ie the fun oxide. 19th century chemistry. (And anesthesiology!) The first earthquake-like event I experienced was when a chemical plant across the river from where I lived blew up; I think it was a fertilizer plant of some sort. (I was in Delaware; the plant was in New Jersey, and it was ~1968.) The DuPont black powder nitro plants in Delaware have three strong walls, the weak side faces the river. When they blow up, its much safer. Unless you're on the river, of course. The N Korean blast could have been their missiles blowing up due to screw ups. There's a lot of energy in the fuels. Or it could have been a test of their nuke-testing systems. The media uses the phrase October surprise, if NK detonates just before the elections. Of course, others are working on their own October gift to W. When the WTC towers fell, it was something like a 3 on the Richter scale. Lots of gravitational energy.
Re: potential new IETF WG on anonymous IPSec
Currently BGP is secured by 1. accepting BGP info only from known router IPs 2. ISPs not propogating BGP from the edge inwards Its a serious vulnerability (as in, take down the net), equivalent to the ability to confuse the post office machinery that sorts postcards. All you need to do is subvert some trusted routers. At 10:54 PM 9/10/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: Also, the author's document discusses protecting BGP to prevent some of the recent denial-of-service attacks, and asks for confirmation about the assertion in a message on the IPSEC mailing list suggesting E.g., it is not feasible for BGP routers to be configured with the appropriate certificate authorities of hundreds of thousands of peers. Routers typically use BGP to peer with a small number of partners, though some big ISP gateway routers might peer with a few hundred. (A typical enterprise router would have 2-3 peers if it does BGP.) If a router wants to learn full internet routes from its peers, it might learn 1-200,000, but that's not the number of direct connections that it has - it's information it learns using those connections. And the peers don't have to be configured rapidly without external assistance - you typically set up the peering link when you're setting up the connection between an ISP and a customer or a pair of ISPs, and if you want to use a CA mechanism to certify X.509 certs, you can set up that information at the same time.
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[ISN] Mitnick movie comes to the US
I wonder if they include Shinomura boffing Gilmore's girlfriend in the Toad Hall hot tub? Got Skills indeed... Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:41:59 -0500 (CDT) From: InfoSec News [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ISN] Mitnick movie comes to the US Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: InfoSec News isn.attrition.org List-Archive: http://www.attrition.org/pipermail/isn List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.attrition.org/mailman/listinfo/isn, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/09/mitnick_movie_us/ [ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002L57YQ/c4iorg - WK] By Kevin Poulsen, SecurityFocus 9th September 2004 Nearly six years after it was filmed, Hollywood's trouble-plagued movie version of the hunt for hacker Kevin Mitnick is headed for video stores in the US Originally titled Takedown, then Cybertraque, the film is set for a September 28th U.S. release on DVD with the new title, Track Down. The movie is from Miramax's horror and sci-fi label Dimension Films, and is based on the book Takedown: The Pursuit and Capture of America's Most Wanted Computer Outlaw - By The Man Who Did It, authored by computer scientist Tsutomu Shimomura and New York Times reporter John Markoff. Shimomura electronically tracked Mitnick to his Raleigh, North Carolina hideout in February, 1995, and sold the book and movie rights for an undisclosed sum amidst the storm of publicity following the fugitive hacker's arrest. Early versions of the screenplay for the movie adaptation of Takedown cast Mitnick - played by Scream star Skeet Ulrich - as violent and potentially homicidal. In July, 1998, supporters of the then-imprisoned cyberpunk rallied against the film outside Miramax's New York City offices. Writers later revised the script, and shooting wrapped on the project in December, 1998. The film then languished without a US release date amid rumors of poor test screenings and a re-shot ending. Perhaps hoping to recoup some of their losses, Miramax finally released the movie to French theatres in March, 2000, as Cybertraque. It was generally panned by critics: a reviewer for the newspaper Le Monde noted the film's problems in translating a virtual manhunt to the action-adventure genre. Can the repeated image of faces sweating over keyboards renew the principles of the Hollywood thriller?, the paper asked. It's easy to say that the filmmaker hardly reaches that point, regardless of his saturation of the soundtrack with rock music to defeat the boredom of the viewer. Cybertraque was later released in Europe on DVD with French subtitles, and enjoyed some underground circulation on peer-to-peer networks, often misidentified as the sequel to the 1995 film Hackers. The real-life Mitnick cracked computers at cellphone companies, universities and ISPs. He pleaded guilty in March, 1999, to seven felonies, and was released from prison on 21 January, 2000, after nearly five years in custody. Now a security consultant and author, the ex-hacker says he's not happy to see the movie come to America. I didn't expect the film would ever be released to the US, so this is kind of shock to me, he says. I'm kind of disappointed because the film depicts me doing things that are not real. The fictionalized plot of Track Down centers around Shimomura's efforts to capture Mitnick before the hacker can access a terrifying computer program capable of causing blackouts, disabling hospital equipment and scrambling air traffic control systems. Hollywood's Mitnick character is portrayed somewhat sympathetically, but is prone to random outbursts of rage, and suffers a creepy penchant for electronic eavesdropping and a lurking hatred of women. You wouldn't believe the amount of emails I get from all around the world saying, 'I saw this movie about you, it's great, you're my hero, it was a fantastic movie,' says Mitnick. I'm thinking, these guys are a little bit off... It's not an interesting film. I think it was done pretty poorly. _ Donate online for the Ron Santo Walk to Cure Diabetes - http://www.c4i.org/ethan.html --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Spam Spotlight on Reputation
At 1:33 PM +0100 9/13/04, Ben Laurie wrote: Surely you should check that: a) The signature works b) Is someone in your list of good keys before whitelisting? Amen. A (cryptographic) whitelist for my friends, all others pay cash. :-) Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
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Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow! I had no idea ammonium nitrate (ANFO for all intents and purposes, yes?) could produce that kind of result! How much was there? 4,500 tons, of which only 10% detonated. (The nitrate was desensitised with ammonium sulfate and stored outside, whenever anyone needed any they'd drill holes and blast off chunks with dynamite. Ammonium nitrate has a complex chemical reaction that wasn't really understood until after the Texas City disaster in 1947, there had previously been fires in several bulk ammonium nitrate stores without any explosions. At Oppau it was assumed that amatol (a standard military explosive, ammonium nitrate + TNT) had somehow got into the piles and that was what caused the explosion). Peter.
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Re: A nice little dose of pop conspiracy theory...
Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://pixla.px.cz/pentagon.swf Perhaps some of those arguments can be put to bed: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/110804factsstraight.htm ..not that I find either one completely convincing... -- Riad S. Wahby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote: http://www.muenster.org/uiw/fach/chemie/material/gif/oppau.jpg Wow! I had no idea ammonium nitrate (ANFO for all intents and purposes, yes?) could produce that kind of result! How much was there? -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them. Osama Bin Laden - - - There aught to be limits to freedom!George Bush - - - Which one scares you more?
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
At 12:01 AM 9/12/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: No big deal? Who are they kidding? JAT, any large explosion will create a mushroom cloud. Its the blast wave reflecting off the ground that lifts the thing, plus the buoyancy of the hot gasses. If it *were* a nuke, it would be easy to detect --from Vera gamma-ray satellites staring at the earth to optical sensors (there's a characteristic nonlinear time-course of optical emissions) to fallout monitors, ground and plane based. Time will tell, and it certainly could have been a nuke (they have the SNMs), but if you do it, you talk about it, much like the Indi/Pakis did. And you can't hide a surface burst, or even a large belowground test --and an underground test that vents to the atmosphere doesn't make such a big cloud. Nukepunk
Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
No big deal? Who are they kidding? -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them. Osama Bin Laden - - - There aught to be limits to freedom!George Bush - - - Which one scares you more? -- http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/11/nkorea.blast/ 'Large cloud' seen over N. Korea Sunday, September 12, 2004 Posted: 0435 GMT (1235 HKT) SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- A large cloud appeared over North Korea in satellite images several days ago, but a U.S. official told CNN it is no big deal and not the result of a nuclear explosion. South Korea's Yonhap news agency is reporting a mushroom cloud over two miles (4 km) wide and a massive explosion in North Korea's northernmost province on September 9 -- the 56th anniversary of North Korea's founding. South Korea's Unification Minister Chung Dong-young said Sunday the government was aware of the reports and is checking them. The U.S. official said the cloud could be the result of a forest fire. None of North Korea's known nuclear sites are in the country's northernmost provinces. However, The New York Times Saturday reported that President Bush and his top advisers recently received intelligence reports that could indicate North Korea is preparing a nuclear test, citing senior officials with access to the intelligence.
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
On Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 05:07:55PM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote: http://www.muenster.org/uiw/fach/chemie/material/gif/oppau.jpg Wow! I had no idea ammonium nitrate (ANFO for all intents and purposes, yes?) could produce that kind of result! How much was there? About 4.5 kT of 50:50 ammonium nitrate/ammonium sulfate mix. One of the largest, if not *the* largest nonnuclear explosions ever. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net pgpYj9UwO0FvC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
That of course brings us full circle: how many fuels can produce a blast which results in a 2+ mile mushroom? That's a *lot* of explosive force. Blast sets off the forest fire, fire makes the smoke. Not a problem. Go visit Northern California in late summer firestorm season (though we don't need fertilizer plants to start fires; smaller accidents or stupid people can do the job just fine.) At 03:07 PM 9/12/2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: http://www.muenster.org/uiw/fach/chemie/material/gif/oppau.jpg Wow! I had no idea ammonium nitrate (ANFO for all intents and purposes, yes?) could produce that kind of result! How much was there? No FO, just AN all by itself. NH4NO3 turns into N2 + 2H2O + O, and the leftover O finds something productive to do, like combine with another O into O2, or burn some nearby carbon, and it's hot enough the H2O is gaseous also. If you've got FO, it'll happily combine with the spare O, producing lots of heat and speeding up the reaction. The first earthquake-like event I experienced was when a chemical plant across the river from where I lived blew up; I think it was a fertilizer plant of some sort. (I was in Delaware; the plant was in New Jersey, and it was ~1968.) Fertilizer plants blow up real good; about the only thing better are ammunition depots and maybe explosives plants, and usually those are built to contain the explosion better. (By the way, most people think of the Parthenon as an ancient ruin; it was actually in very good shape, roof and all, until ~1850, when the Greeks were using it as an ammunition depot during one of their wars with the Turks and the Turks blew it up.) Bill Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
Variola wrote... If it *were* a nuke, it would be easy to detect --from Vera gamma-ray satellites staring at the earth to optical sensors (there's a characteristic nonlinear time-course of optical emissions) to fallout monitors, ground and plane based. --and an underground test that vents to the atmosphere doesn't make such a big cloud. I had thought that one of the main tests was seismic...from what I understood, Seismic monitors in the US can detect nu-cu-lar tests (above or below ground) and even guess where and the size of the blast. -TD _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote: On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: No big deal? Who are they kidding? A 2-mile wide cloud is WAY too big to be caused by a single explosion, unless REALLY big. Exactly. And there aren't many things *that* big. The forest fire claim sounds more plausible in this regard. An existing cloud could be used for masking, though. Wait a minute: since when does a forest fire create explosions? Or have enough ground force to push up a mushroom cloud? But a surface or atmospheric blast would produce a flash plowing through the entire EM spectrum; from long-wave radio to microwaves to hard gamma. That's something the satellites Up There can't miss even through a smoke cloud - at least if they are still operational or replaced by newer ones. Agreed. Except that _I_ do not have access to those sattelites, so I don't know what it is they saw (or didn't see). (Remember the strong flashes of gamma bursts, originally discovered by satellites observing the nuclear test ban: http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast19sep97_2.htm.) Also a disruption of this kind would be perceivable in long range, possibly by quite many people. And, lo, a *lot* of people noticed it. An underground blast, if not screwed up, wouldn't produce a cloud at all. That I didn't know. However, both surface and underground blast would have a peculiar seismic signature. There is a network of both nonproliferation-surveillance and plain old scientific seismic stations all over the world. Something like that couldn't stay hidden for too long. Remember the day the the Kursk submarine became famous; the recording of the double signature, the explosion and shortly later following implosion, appeared online in couple days (or maybe even hours?) after the Event. Yes, I do remember that. I also remember everyone denying it at first. It's difficult to imagine a true nuclear blast would stay unreported for more than few days. Agreed - we can only wait and see. However, I do *not* expect that the USG would want this out if it *is* a nuclear test - Shrub is facing a PR nightmare if it is, since he is the one who pushed them into the nuclear corner. Even if it would really be a nuke test and the politicians would want to be quiet about it, there are too many subjects outside of the direct US political control to either report the measurements or the eventual pressure to not report them. According to CNN, there was also a strong blast reported in the area of a missile base. We don't know how strong the blast was, and if it couldn't be just a conventional explosion, caused by eg. a combination of a forest fire and an ammo depot. That of course brings us full circle: how many fuels can produce a blast which results in a 2+ mile mushroom? That's a *lot* of explosive force. There is also a possibility the senior officials with access to intelligence were injecting media with false information. Remember there are many subjects with different agendas here and a little psyops here and there is quite common. Let's not jump on the conclusions yet. Wait 2-3 days, optionally watch the traffic in conferences of geologists taking care of the seismic activity worldwide and in the vicinity of the area of interest. It's Saturday and many people who could know the answers are away from their instruments; let's wait what they will find on their screens on Monday morning. Hey look here Shaddack: you're ruining a perfectly good conspiracy theory here! I'll have none of this well reasoned CRAP in *my* conspiracy theory! :-) I, like many other, will be looking at this as it develops... You may be right, but, really, a *forest fire* -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them. Osama Bin Laden - - - There aught to be limits to freedom!George Bush - - - Which one scares you more?
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
At 11:45 AM 9/12/2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Time will tell, and it certainly could have been a nuke (they have the SNMs), but if you do it, you talk about it, much like the Indi/Pakis did. And you can't hide a surface burst, or even a large belowground test --and an underground test that vents to the atmosphere doesn't make such a big cloud. When the Israeli / South African nuke test was done, they didn't talk about it, they pretended it hadn't happened, and the US government, at least publicly, has continued to pretend that we don't know that Israel has weapons of Mass Destruction.
Re: BrinCity 2.0: Mayor outlines elaborate camera network for city
-BEGIN TYPE III ANONYMOUS MESSAGE- So, since this is titled BrinCity, it surely means that the image streams will be available from a web site and that we the people get cameras in the emergency response center and the mayor's office? -END TYPE III ANONYMOUS MESSAGE- No, this is from the what happens if the public *isn't* leading the video-camera revolution sections of Brin's books...
RE: [irtheory] An Interview with Jacques Derrida
Yo RAH... I don't see a big problem here. Derrida seems right on the money for the most part. Even this Tribunal has some Cypherpunk-friendly ideas behind it: namely, it's not particularly state-oriented and its reputation-based. Sure, he may be a little soft on a bunch of stuff, but he's captured the general flavor of things. -TD From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [irtheory] An Interview with Jacques Derrida Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:33:20 -0400 For your Sunday morning's entertainment, boys and girls, I present the latest post-modernist circle-jerk. Put down your coffee, or you'll mess up your keyboard. Cheers, RAH Who remembers the citizen's courts that Mr. Bell was so fond of... --- --- begin forwarded text Thread-Topic: [irtheory] The World's Most Dangerous Ideas Thread-Index: AcSYdTPYwk995UZvTomvwcUpUJH1EgAGokIH To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Aaron Chen Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:14:48 +0800 Subject: [irtheory] An Interview with Jacques Derrida Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For A Justice To Come An Interview with Jacques Derrida Lieven De Cauter The BRussells Tribunal is a commission of inquiry into the New Imperial Order, and more particularly into the Project for A New American Century (PNAC), the neo-conservative think tank that has inspired the Bush government's war logic. The co-signatories of the PNAC mission statement include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. The programme of this Think tank is to promote planetary hegemony on the basis of a supertechnological army, to prevent the emergence of a rival super-power and to take pre-emptive action against all those who threaten American interests. The BRussells Tribunal will be held in Brussels from April 14 through 17. One of the greatest living philosophers, Jacques Derrida, who suffers from cancer and is unable to attend the tribunal, has invited the project's initiator, Lieven De Cauter, to his house for an interview. _ Lieven De Cauter: While thanking you for your generosity-why have you decided to grant us this interview on our initiative, the BRussells Tribunal? Jacques Derrida: First of all I wanted to salute your initiative in its principle: to resuscitate the tradition of a Russell Tribunal is symbolically an important and necessary thing to do today. I believe that, in its principle, it is a good thing for the world, even if only in that it feeds the geopolitical reflection of all citizens of the world. I am even more convinced of this necessity in light of the fact that, for a number of years now, we have witnessed an increased interest in the working, in the constitution of international institutions, institutions of international law which, beyond the sovereignty of States, judge heads of State, generals. Not yet States as such, precisely, but persons responsible for, or suspected of being responsible for, war crimes, crimes against humanity-one could mention the case of Pinochet, despite its ambiguity, or of Milosevic. At any rate, heads of State have to appear as such before an International Criminal Court, for instance, which has a recognised status in international law, despite all the difficulties you know: the American, French, Israeli reservations. Nonetheless this tribunal exists, and even if it is still faltering, weak and problematic in the execution of its sanctions, it exists as a recognised phenomenon of international law. Your project, if I understand it correctly, is not of the same type, even if it is inspired by the same spirit. It does not have a juridical or judicial status recognised by any State, and it consequently remains a private initiative. Citizens of different countries have agreed among each other to conduct, as honestly as possible, an inquiry into a policy, into a political project and its execution. The point is not to reach a verdict resulting in sanctions but to raise or to sharpen the vigilance of the citizens of the world, in the first place that of the responsible parties you propose to judge. That can have a symbolic weight in which I believe, an exemplary symbolic weight. That is why, even though I do not feel involved in the actual experience you intend to set up, I think it is very important to underscore that the case you are about to examine-which is evidently a massive and extremely serious case-is only one case among many. In the logic of your project, other policies, other political or military staff, other countries, other statesmen can also be brought to be judged in the same manner, or to be associated with this case. Personally, I have a critical attitude towards the Bush administration and its project, its attack on Iraq, and the conditions in which this has come about in a unilateral fashion, in spite of official protestations from European countries including France, in violation of
[irtheory] An Interview with Jacques Derrida
For your Sunday morning's entertainment, boys and girls, I present the latest post-modernist circle-jerk. Put down your coffee, or you'll mess up your keyboard. Cheers, RAH Who remembers the citizen's courts that Mr. Bell was so fond of... --- --- begin forwarded text Thread-Topic: [irtheory] The World's Most Dangerous Ideas Thread-Index: AcSYdTPYwk995UZvTomvwcUpUJH1EgAGokIH To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Aaron Chen Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:14:48 +0800 Subject: [irtheory] An Interview with Jacques Derrida Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For A Justice To Come An Interview with Jacques Derrida Lieven De Cauter The BRussells Tribunal is a commission of inquiry into the New Imperial Order, and more particularly into the Project for A New American Century (PNAC), the neo-conservative think tank that has inspired the Bush government's war logic. The co-signatories of the PNAC mission statement include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. The programme of this Think tank is to promote planetary hegemony on the basis of a supertechnological army, to prevent the emergence of a rival super-power and to take pre-emptive action against all those who threaten American interests. The BRussells Tribunal will be held in Brussels from April 14 through 17. One of the greatest living philosophers, Jacques Derrida, who suffers from cancer and is unable to attend the tribunal, has invited the project's initiator, Lieven De Cauter, to his house for an interview. _ Lieven De Cauter: While thanking you for your generosity-why have you decided to grant us this interview on our initiative, the BRussells Tribunal? Jacques Derrida: First of all I wanted to salute your initiative in its principle: to resuscitate the tradition of a Russell Tribunal is symbolically an important and necessary thing to do today. I believe that, in its principle, it is a good thing for the world, even if only in that it feeds the geopolitical reflection of all citizens of the world. I am even more convinced of this necessity in light of the fact that, for a number of years now, we have witnessed an increased interest in the working, in the constitution of international institutions, institutions of international law which, beyond the sovereignty of States, judge heads of State, generals. Not yet States as such, precisely, but persons responsible for, or suspected of being responsible for, war crimes, crimes against humanity-one could mention the case of Pinochet, despite its ambiguity, or of Milosevic. At any rate, heads of State have to appear as such before an International Criminal Court, for instance, which has a recognised status in international law, despite all the difficulties you know: the American, French, Israeli reservations. Nonetheless this tribunal exists, and even if it is still faltering, weak and problematic in the execution of its sanctions, it exists as a recognised phenomenon of international law. Your project, if I understand it correctly, is not of the same type, even if it is inspired by the same spirit. It does not have a juridical or judicial status recognised by any State, and it consequently remains a private initiative. Citizens of different countries have agreed among each other to conduct, as honestly as possible, an inquiry into a policy, into a political project and its execution. The point is not to reach a verdict resulting in sanctions but to raise or to sharpen the vigilance of the citizens of the world, in the first place that of the responsible parties you propose to judge. That can have a symbolic weight in which I believe, an exemplary symbolic weight. That is why, even though I do not feel involved in the actual experience you intend to set up, I think it is very important to underscore that the case you are about to examine-which is evidently a massive and extremely serious case-is only one case among many. In the logic of your project, other policies, other political or military staff, other countries, other statesmen can also be brought to be judged in the same manner, or to be associated with this case. Personally, I have a critical attitude towards the Bush administration and its project, its attack on Iraq, and the conditions in which this has come about in a unilateral fashion, in spite of official protestations from European countries including France, in violation of the rules of the United Nations and the Security Council... But notwithstanding this criticism - which I have expressed in public, by the way - I would not wish for the United States in general to have to appear before such a tribunal. I would want to distinguish a number of forces within the United States that have opposed the policy on Iraq as firmly as in Europe. This policy does not involve the American people in general, nor even the American State, but a
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: No big deal? Who are they kidding? A 2-mile wide cloud is WAY too big to be caused by a single explosion, unless REALLY big. The forest fire claim sounds more plausible in this regard. An existing cloud could be used for masking, though. But a surface or atmospheric blast would produce a flash plowing through the entire EM spectrum; from long-wave radio to microwaves to hard gamma. That's something the satellites Up There can't miss even through a smoke cloud - at least if they are still operational or replaced by newer ones. (Remember the strong flashes of gamma bursts, originally discovered by satellites observing the nuclear test ban: http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast19sep97_2.htm.) Also a disruption of this kind would be perceivable in long range, possibly by quite many people. An underground blast, if not screwed up, wouldn't produce a cloud at all. However, both surface and underground blast would have a peculiar seismic signature. There is a network of both nonproliferation-surveillance and plain old scientific seismic stations all over the world. Something like that couldn't stay hidden for too long. Remember the day the the Kursk submarine became famous; the recording of the double signature, the explosion and shortly later following implosion, appeared online in couple days (or maybe even hours?) after the Event. It's difficult to imagine a true nuclear blast would stay unreported for more than few days. Even if it would really be a nuke test and the politicians would want to be quiet about it, there are too many subjects outside of the direct US political control to either report the measurements or the eventual pressure to not report them. According to CNN, there was also a strong blast reported in the area of a missile base. We don't know how strong the blast was, and if it couldn't be just a conventional explosion, caused by eg. a combination of a forest fire and an ammo depot. There is also a possibility the senior officials with access to intelligence were injecting media with false information. Remember there are many subjects with different agendas here and a little psyops here and there is quite common. Let's not jump on the conclusions yet. Wait 2-3 days, optionally watch the traffic in conferences of geologists taking care of the seismic activity worldwide and in the vicinity of the area of interest. It's Saturday and many people who could know the answers are away from their instruments; let's wait what they will find on their screens on Monday morning.
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
J.A. Terranson wrote: On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote: The forest fire claim sounds more plausible in this regard. An existing cloud could be used for masking, though. Wait a minute: since when does a forest fire create explosions? Or have enough ground force to push up a mushroom cloud? [...] That of course brings us full circle: how many fuels can produce a blast which results in a 2+ mile mushroom? That's a *lot* of explosive force. Doesn't have to work like that. The mushroom cloud is not pushed up by blast, it's carried up by hot air rising, which is replaced by cooler air rushing in below. There was a visible mushroom cloud at Hamburg in 1943 - I'm not sure but I suspect that that may have been the event that put the phrase into the language. FWIW the BBC is now saying that the NKs are claiming it was a civil engineering explosion connected with a hydro project. As with other list members I assume that if the explosion was nuclear someone would have detected EM from it immediately radioactive particles soon after. And I also assume, perhaps with less justification, that at least some of those someones would have made the knowledge public - it must include at least military early warning organisation of China, Russia the US, and very possibly Japan, SK, UK maybe other countries as well, and also probably a number of space agencies and academic researchers. Would they all conspire to suppress knowledge of NK nuclear explosion? And if there was such a test, how long before China stomped all over them. Last thing they want is a looney dictator with nukes on their borders (If only to pre-empt Russia, US, or Japan intervening). Even if both the Chinese state capitalists and the North Korean absolute divine monarchy still use the locally redundant word Communist when describing themselves to us Western barbarians. Sometimes my friend's enemy isn't my enemy's friend.
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 12:01 AM 9/12/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: No big deal? Who are they kidding? JAT, any large explosion will create a mushroom cloud. Its the blast wave reflecting off the ground that lifts the thing, plus the buoyancy of the hot gasses. Yes, I understand all this - mushroom cloud != nuclear explosion. If it *were* a nuke, it would be easy to detect --from Vera gamma-ray satellites staring at the earth to optical sensors (there's a characteristic nonlinear time-course of optical emissions) to fallout monitors, ground and plane based. Which _I_ do not have access to ;-) Time will tell, Exactly. and it certainly could have been a nuke (they have the SNMs), but if you do it, you talk about it, much like the Indi/Pakis did. If I were in Jong's slippers, I would not discuss it - I would just do it, and let everyone draw their own [obvious] conclusion. Remember, his pattern has been to only discuss things (even when already obvious to everyone else) only when _he_ felt like it. And you can't hide a surface burst, or even a large belowground test This conflicts somewhat with a previously expressed opinion (Shaddack?). I was under the impression that underground tests, unless performed with very tiny nukes at very great depth, produced visible clouds from the blast waves. --and an underground test that vents to the atmosphere doesn't make such a big cloud. Nukepunk -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them. Osama Bin Laden - - - There aught to be limits to freedom!George Bush - - - Which one scares you more?
Re: anonymous IP terminology (Re: [anonsec] Re: potential new IETF WG on anonymous IPSec (fwd from hal@finney.org))
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, R. A. Hettinga wrote: From: Adam Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: anonymous IP terminology (Re: [anonsec] Re: potential new IETF At ZKS we had software to remail MIME mail to provide a pseudonymous email. But one gotcha is that mail clients include MIME boundary lines which are pseudo-random (purely to avoid string collision). If these random lines are generated with a non-cryptographic RNG it is quite likely that so called unlinkable mail would in fact be linkable because of this higher level protocol. Wouldn't it be relatively easy to regenerate the MIME boundary strings on the level of the remailer, and filter the content of the headers? Various mail clients have various peculiarities, fingerprints. Shouldn't the remailer be able to break the message down to individual data objects (subject, message text, attachments...) and then reassemble them back, in a sanitized way?
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
On Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 12:01:29AM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: No big deal? Who are they kidding? Has it occured to anyone this might be a covert US (or Chinese or ) operation to destroy the PRK nuke test setup, say with cruise missiles, stealth B2 bombers, or a infiltrated sabotage team ? That could produce a large explosion (but little radioactivity)... And with obvious PRK preparations for a test far advanced (see today's NYT) , I would think it was now or never for such a covert attack. Maybe that is why Dubya was completely shitfaced getting off the helo at the WH on the way back from campaigning in Johnstown Pa this past Thursday ? Too much pressure to keep that Jim Beam bottle in the cabinet... one almost can't blame him... -- Dave Emery N1PRE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
Ken Brown wrote... And if there was such a test, how long before China stomped all over them. Last thing they want is a looney dictator with nukes on their borders (If only to pre-empt Russia, US, or Japan intervening). Even if both the Chinese state capitalists and the North Korean absolute divine monarchy still use the locally redundant word Communist when describing themselves to us Western barbarians. I think this pretty much nails it. Actually, I was imagining that there was still enough relationship left between PRC and NK for the Chinese to say, Uh, a nuclear test would not be a good idea, meaning (in Chinese speak), No way you're gonna do that. I'm sure the Chinese at this point regard their relationship with NK as baggage, though I know the Chinese do re-patriate NK refugees, so they're at least maintaining pretenses. -TD _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
[ISN] Mitnick movie comes to the US
I wonder if they include Shinomura boffing Gilmore's girlfriend in the Toad Hall hot tub? Got Skills indeed... Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:41:59 -0500 (CDT) From: InfoSec News [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ISN] Mitnick movie comes to the US Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: InfoSec News isn.attrition.org List-Archive: http://www.attrition.org/pipermail/isn List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.attrition.org/mailman/listinfo/isn, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/09/mitnick_movie_us/ [ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002L57YQ/c4iorg - WK] By Kevin Poulsen, SecurityFocus 9th September 2004 Nearly six years after it was filmed, Hollywood's trouble-plagued movie version of the hunt for hacker Kevin Mitnick is headed for video stores in the US Originally titled Takedown, then Cybertraque, the film is set for a September 28th U.S. release on DVD with the new title, Track Down. The movie is from Miramax's horror and sci-fi label Dimension Films, and is based on the book Takedown: The Pursuit and Capture of America's Most Wanted Computer Outlaw - By The Man Who Did It, authored by computer scientist Tsutomu Shimomura and New York Times reporter John Markoff. Shimomura electronically tracked Mitnick to his Raleigh, North Carolina hideout in February, 1995, and sold the book and movie rights for an undisclosed sum amidst the storm of publicity following the fugitive hacker's arrest. Early versions of the screenplay for the movie adaptation of Takedown cast Mitnick - played by Scream star Skeet Ulrich - as violent and potentially homicidal. In July, 1998, supporters of the then-imprisoned cyberpunk rallied against the film outside Miramax's New York City offices. Writers later revised the script, and shooting wrapped on the project in December, 1998. The film then languished without a US release date amid rumors of poor test screenings and a re-shot ending. Perhaps hoping to recoup some of their losses, Miramax finally released the movie to French theatres in March, 2000, as Cybertraque. It was generally panned by critics: a reviewer for the newspaper Le Monde noted the film's problems in translating a virtual manhunt to the action-adventure genre. Can the repeated image of faces sweating over keyboards renew the principles of the Hollywood thriller?, the paper asked. It's easy to say that the filmmaker hardly reaches that point, regardless of his saturation of the soundtrack with rock music to defeat the boredom of the viewer. Cybertraque was later released in Europe on DVD with French subtitles, and enjoyed some underground circulation on peer-to-peer networks, often misidentified as the sequel to the 1995 film Hackers. The real-life Mitnick cracked computers at cellphone companies, universities and ISPs. He pleaded guilty in March, 1999, to seven felonies, and was released from prison on 21 January, 2000, after nearly five years in custody. Now a security consultant and author, the ex-hacker says he's not happy to see the movie come to America. I didn't expect the film would ever be released to the US, so this is kind of shock to me, he says. I'm kind of disappointed because the film depicts me doing things that are not real. The fictionalized plot of Track Down centers around Shimomura's efforts to capture Mitnick before the hacker can access a terrifying computer program capable of causing blackouts, disabling hospital equipment and scrambling air traffic control systems. Hollywood's Mitnick character is portrayed somewhat sympathetically, but is prone to random outbursts of rage, and suffers a creepy penchant for electronic eavesdropping and a lurking hatred of women. You wouldn't believe the amount of emails I get from all around the world saying, 'I saw this movie about you, it's great, you're my hero, it was a fantastic movie,' says Mitnick. I'm thinking, these guys are a little bit off... It's not an interesting film. I think it was done pretty poorly. _ Donate online for the Ron Santo Walk to Cure Diabetes - http://www.c4i.org/ethan.html --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: About 4.5 kT of 50:50 ammonium nitrate/ammonium sulfate mix. One of the largest, if not *the* largest nonnuclear explosions ever. The largest man-made explosion is usually claimed to be Halifax (about 3000 tons of assorted HE's), but there are a pile of others that also count: Oppau, Texas City, Port Chicago, Lake Denmark, Silvertown, Fauld (more explosives involved than Halifax, but less loss of life, so Halifax seems to get all the publicity), etc etc etc. Peter.
Re: Spam Spotlight on Reputation
At 1:33 PM +0100 9/13/04, Ben Laurie wrote: Surely you should check that: a) The signature works b) Is someone in your list of good keys before whitelisting? Amen. A (cryptographic) whitelist for my friends, all others pay cash. :-) Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow! I had no idea ammonium nitrate (ANFO for all intents and purposes, yes?) could produce that kind of result! How much was there? 4,500 tons, of which only 10% detonated. (The nitrate was desensitised with ammonium sulfate and stored outside, whenever anyone needed any they'd drill holes and blast off chunks with dynamite. Ammonium nitrate has a complex chemical reaction that wasn't really understood until after the Texas City disaster in 1947, there had previously been fires in several bulk ammonium nitrate stores without any explosions. At Oppau it was assumed that amatol (a standard military explosive, ammonium nitrate + TNT) had somehow got into the piles and that was what caused the explosion). Peter.
Re: potential new IETF WG on anonymous IPSec
Currently BGP is secured by 1. accepting BGP info only from known router IPs 2. ISPs not propogating BGP from the edge inwards Its a serious vulnerability (as in, take down the net), equivalent to the ability to confuse the post office machinery that sorts postcards. All you need to do is subvert some trusted routers. At 10:54 PM 9/10/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: Also, the author's document discusses protecting BGP to prevent some of the recent denial-of-service attacks, and asks for confirmation about the assertion in a message on the IPSEC mailing list suggesting E.g., it is not feasible for BGP routers to be configured with the appropriate certificate authorities of hundreds of thousands of peers. Routers typically use BGP to peer with a small number of partners, though some big ISP gateway routers might peer with a few hundred. (A typical enterprise router would have 2-3 peers if it does BGP.) If a router wants to learn full internet routes from its peers, it might learn 1-200,000, but that's not the number of direct connections that it has - it's information it learns using those connections. And the peers don't have to be configured rapidly without external assistance - you typically set up the peering link when you're setting up the connection between an ISP and a customer or a pair of ISPs, and if you want to use a CA mechanism to certify X.509 certs, you can set up that information at the same time.
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
At 06:23 PM 9/12/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: I had thought that one of the main tests was seismic...from what I understood, Seismic monitors in the US can detect nu-cu-lar tests (above or below ground) and even guess where and the size of the blast. Yes. Seismic sensors see some foreshock activity before an earthquake including the big ones. A nuke starts instantly. Standard S P wave triangulation gives you the location. You can try to hide a blast (in sand; or in an excavated void) but its tough. At 06:50 AM 9/13/04 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: About 4.5 kT of 50:50 ammonium nitrate/ammonium sulfate mix. One of the largest, if not *the* largest nonnuclear explosions ever. Ammonium sulphate would not have exploded. Its the nitrate that is the fun group. It has an oxygen surplus, so anythign (like the rest of the ship) vaporized by the detonation would probaby burn. Fuel oil is cheap; aluminum dust is more energetic. At 10:40 PM 9/12/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: No FO, just AN all by itself. NH4NO3 turns into N2 + 2H2O + O, Slow decomposition yields nitrous oxide, ie the fun oxide. 19th century chemistry. (And anesthesiology!) The first earthquake-like event I experienced was when a chemical plant across the river from where I lived blew up; I think it was a fertilizer plant of some sort. (I was in Delaware; the plant was in New Jersey, and it was ~1968.) The DuPont black powder nitro plants in Delaware have three strong walls, the weak side faces the river. When they blow up, its much safer. Unless you're on the river, of course. The N Korean blast could have been their missiles blowing up due to screw ups. There's a lot of energy in the fuels. Or it could have been a test of their nuke-testing systems. The media uses the phrase October surprise, if NK detonates just before the elections. Of course, others are working on their own October gift to W. When the WTC towers fell, it was something like a 3 on the Richter scale. Lots of gravitational energy.
Re: Forest Fire responsible for a 2.5mi *mushroom cloud*?
At 06:59 AM 9/14/04 +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote: (The nitrate was desensitised with ammonium sulfate and stored outside, whenever anyone needed any they'd drill holes and blast off chunks with dynamite. AN is extremely deliquescent; perhaps the sulphate was for that? Removing chunks with dynamite is trying rather hard for a Darwin award. When I was a teen I would save the instant-cold packs after soccer games, and recrystalize the AN within. It melts and gives off bubbles but I never collected enough N20 nor did it detonate.
Re: Flying with Libertarian Hawks
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Tyler Durden wrote: Damn right. 'Conservative' means agreeing with the most vocal proponents of the current right wing apparatchiks. It seems to have little or no relationship to fiscally conservative ideas. Left wing now refers to anyone who disagrees with the 'Conservatives', even if said left wing policies are practically identical to those of the 'right'. Corollary: (Shamelessly stolen from the movie Human Stain) They just keep getting dummer and more opinionated. -Chuck -- http://www.quantumlinux.com Quantum Linux Laboratories, LLC. ACCELERATING Business with Open Technology The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit. - FDR
