date:20041221


On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

 Agreed, if you want
 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what it boils down to.  You *want*
things your own way, but you are too fucking spoiled to fight fo it - so
instead you whine and moan.

Put up or shut up.

Either you fight it with your most effective weapon (dollars), or you
actively support it (again, with dollars).  There is no middle ground.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0xBD4A95BF

 Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is
upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers
destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy
freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be
healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system
whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation,
poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is
biologically and ecologically sustainable.

The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly
indicates that mental illness starts at the top.

Rev Dr Michael Ellner

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?


On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

 Well, there's a TINY little hole in your logic here...

 Scale of distance is the only difference.  Either you support the system
 or you don't.  I don't: I either drive to jobs (charging for mileage) or I
 pass on them, rather than take part in the police state that is todays air
 system.  You have the very same choices.  The argument eveyone is making
 here is that it is too much of an inconvenience (financial or otherwise),
 *not* to fly.  Sorry, but that's just pure self-serving BS.

 For one, Flying can easily be a requirement, not an option.

You keep asserting this, but at the same time fail to provide an example.
Please show how flying can easily be a requirement, not an option.  One
legitimate example will suffice.


 But that's besides the point here.

No - that's the entire point here.


 The real point is that some Super-JAT could (5 years from now when there are
 ubiquitous highway checkpoints) argue that walking from NYC to Boston may
 be difficult but it IS possible. Or of course (after Tenent's vision for
 the internet is realized) You could simply Fedex those files, you don't
 need to use the internet

So, your position is that we should not take action now, because we may
have to take the same action later?

If people would assert their economic powers today through refusal to fund
the airlines, the same threat would prevent your example from being
possible in the future.  The only reason your walking scenario is even a
little plausible is because TheMan/G'mint/etc., knows that there will be
no pushback on *any* front.

Also, not that while airlines are heavily regulated, they are not
(theoretically at least) publicly funded, and as such, your right to use
them is limited - whereas roads are public property, and will be a lot
harder to place prohibitions upon.  A real boycott of airlines would take
only days to bring both the airlines and the TSA to it's knees - the
economic impact would be both national in scope and immediate in effect:
you can make no legitimate argument for not addressing the TSA problem
head on.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0xBD4A95BF

 Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is
upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers
destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy
freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be
healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system
whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation,
poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is
biologically and ecologically sustainable.

The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly
indicates that mental illness starts at the top.

Rev Dr Michael Ellner

[no subject]

2004-12-21 Thread Jack

Want a cheap Watch?
http://jhx.nepel.com

A Bronx Curbside Whisper: 'Hey, Need a Tuneup?'

http://nytimes.com/2004/12/19/nyregion/19bronx.html?pagewanted=printposition=

The New York Times

December 19, 2004

A Bronx Curbside Whisper: 'Hey, Need a Tuneup?'
 BY ANDREA ELLIOTT


he men saunter up and down a littered block of Third Avenue in the Bronx,
casting sidelong glances at passing cars. When the cars slow down, the men
mouth silent promises of a cheap fix. When the drivers pull over, the men
scan for cops before sliding up to the curb.

It is a singular hustle. There are no drugs or sex. Instead, the hoods of
the cars fly open and the men get to work, pulling out greasy tools to
perform every mechanical remedy from oil changes to hair-raising tuneups
and axle replacements, right on the street.

In the vast underground of New York's economy, street mechanics hold a
peculiar if utilitarian place. For people who balk at a $30 oil change,
there is Country, a 41-year-old Virginia native who charges a third of
that, jacking up his clients' cars as rush-hour traffic creeps by. In the
expert hands of Chino and Heavy, a $200 brake job costs half as much, parts
included.

 On busy days, cars line Third Avenue like sick patients, propped up by
metal jacks, worn-out tires flung to the side. The mechanics disappear
underneath, their boots peeking out, their tools splayed on asphalt outside
the neon blink of auto parts shops.

Sometimes ingenious, sometimes deceptive, they form a blue-collar rung in
the city's freelance work ladder. They are mobile, carrying their tools in
wheeled suitcases, on call around the clock by cellphone or pager. They
draw clients from as far as Connecticut and Rhode Island. Some even wear
uniforms, and the best ones travel on distant missions, reviving
broken-down cars on roadsides from Boston to Atlantic City.

I'm like an ambulance, said Luis Mares, 40, who installs rebuilt
alternators for as little as $85. Where there's trouble, I go.

The flourishing, although illegal, street business blends comical
improvisation with corporate savvy. But as it does in any profession, the
talent ranges. Some mechanics leave customers careering away brakeless.
Many make a mess, with discarded oil and strewn parts. And hovering over
them all is the constant threat of the police, who issue tickets to the men
tirelessly, leading to hundreds of dollars in fines and repeated stays in
jail. Yet week after week, the mechanics stubbornly return to the same
street to eke out a living on their own terms.

This is New York, said Country, who would give only his street name and
who has been issued, he said, 42 summonses in the last two years. If
you're not on your feet, you're on your butt.

Street mechanics ply their trade all over the city. They can be found near
Shea Stadium in Queens and around Pacific Street and Fourth Avenue in
Brooklyn. But perhaps nowhere are they more brazenly visible than on Third
Avenue from East 161st to 163rd Streets, in the Melrose Commons section of
the South Bronx.

 On any given day, up to 15 mechanics work the street, competing for
clients. Repairs begin after noon (the late hours are among the perks of
the job) and pick up around 5 p.m., when customers leave their jobs and
stop by for a new timing belt change or a brake adjustment. Paydays are the
peak. Saturdays are prime: the best mechanics can pocket $400 in one day,
saving clients the steeper prices charged by Pep Boys or Jiffy Lube.

 I can't afford to go to the shop, said Howard Dawson, 66, a retired
Amtrak repairman who regularly takes his '93 Cadillac Fleetwood to the
street. One hand's got to wash the other.

The Third Avenue mechanics, like most workers, operate in a hierarchy.

At the top are the owners of the auto parts stores, who moved to the street
starting in the early 1970's. The mechanics came uninvited around the same
time, like weeds in a garden. They formed a symbiotic relationship with the
stores' employees. The stores sell parts to customers who often need a
mechanic to install them and the mechanics will send their clients to the
stores.

 You help me and I'll help you, explained Humberto Ortiz, 56, a salesman
at Ocampo Auto Electric on Third Avenue.

At the bottom of the ladder are the helpers - mechanics in training who
earn much of their pay by luring clients. They, too, have street names that
in the mores of the South Bronx are assigned more than chosen. There is
Little Mexico, Dominica and Mouse. Not by coincidence, they share several
traits: they are small in build, move quickly and seem to have an outsized
view of their own mechanical abilities.

Every time I see them doing something heavy, they look stuck in it, said
Luis Martinez, who goes by Chino and is among the street's veterans.

 Tales abound of jobs the helpers started and botched, only to be saved by
the street's experts. But unlike other would-be street mechanics, whose bad
reputations result in swift excommunication, these helpers have clung to
their place on the street. They tend to live off small jobs, not always
involving

failure delivery

2004-12-21 Thread MAILER-DAEMON

Message from  yahoo.com.
Unable to deliver message to the following address(es).

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
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Remote host said: 550 5.2.1 [EMAIL PROTECTED]... Mailbox disabled for this 
recipient
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--- Original message follows.

Return-Path: cypherpunks@minder.net

The original message is over 5k.  Message truncated to 1K.

X-Rocket-Spam: 81.214.171.211
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Received: from 81.214.171.211  (HELO qnfwxiv.net) (81.214.171.211)
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To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:49:53 GMT
Subject: Oh God it's
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I was surprised, too!
Who_could_suspect_something_like_that? shityi


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and my head

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Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

JAT wrote...
You keep asserting this, but at the same time fail to provide an example.
Please show how flying can easily be a requirement, not an option. One
legitimate example will suffice.
Later. (Actually, I didn't 'keep asserting this', but that's a separate
matter)

So, your position is that we should not take action now, because we may
have to take the same action later?
Well, that's a good point...I think I viewed your previous analysis on a
more philosophical level (because that's how it was phrased), but when you
put it this way it starts to make some sense. In other words, avoiding
travel whenever possible will (when added to sheeple starting to do the same
because of all the terible screening stories) eventually start putting some
squeeze on the airlines. (But then again, DC has plenty of our tax dollars
ready to bail out an incompetent set of airline managers.) It won't hurt at
least.

As for the former, I am suprised you even need examples...asking for them
weakens your main point.
There are plenty of examples to be had, and I'll give you an easy one.
You're a hot looking, leggy and not super-bright saleschick that ALWAYS
makes the sale in person (read: Big Bonuses), and much less frequently over
the phone (read: failed sales quotas and eventual layoff). Your territory is
Northwest meaning Oregon, NO Cal, Washington, Vancouver, and lots of those
weird states over there like Idaho and whatnot. You can't possibly drive
fast enough to make all your meetings in your territory. Will you...

1) Phone it in
2) Do some kind of lameass video conferencing
3) Fly
4) Get a job at McDonalds
tiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktik
RING! Times up...

[no subject]

2004-12-21 Thread Ben

Do you want a cheap Watch?
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'Video Miners' Use Hidden Cameras in Stores

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB110357897849105150,00.html

The Wall Street Journal

  December 21, 2004

 MARKETING



'Video Miners' Use
 Hidden Cameras in Stores
'Video Miners' Use Cameras
 Hidden in Stores to Analyze
 Who Shops, What They Like

By JOSEPH PEREIRA
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
December 21, 2004; Page B1


BRAINTREE, Mass. -- Stepping into a Gap store at the South Shore Shopping
Plaza on a recent evening, Laura Munro became a research statistic.

Twelve feet above her, a device resembling a smoke detector, mounted on the
ceiling and equipped with a hidden camera, took a picture of her head and
shoulders.

The image was fed to a computer and shipped to a database in Chicago, where
ShopperTrak RCT Corp., a consumer research firm, keeps count of shoppers
nationwide using 40,000 cameras placed in stores and malls.

ShopperTrak, whose profile has risen this holiday season as appetite grows
for more real-time shopping data, is a leader in video mining -- an
emerging field in marketing research enabled by technology that can analyze
video images without relying on human eyes.

ShopperTrak says it doesn't take pictures of faces. The company worries
that shoppers would perceive that as an invasion of privacy. But nearly all
of its videotaping is done without the knowledge of the people being taped.

I didn't even know there was a camera up there, says Ms. Munro, a
public-transit manager who popped into the mall on her way home from work
to find a gift for her 12-year-old daughter.

Using proprietary software to gauge the size of the images of people, a
ShopperTrak computer determined that Ms. Munro was an adult, not a child,
and thus a bona fide shopper. Weeding out youngsters is critical in
accurately calculating one of the valuable bits of data ShopperTrak sells
-- the percentage of shoppers that buys and the percentage that only
browses. It arrives at this data, including the so-called conversion rate,
by comparing the number of people taped entering the store with the number
of transactions.

Ms. Munro's visit was tallied up twice: once as a visitor to the Gap and
once in a national count of shoppers. Gap Inc., of San Francisco, pays
ShopperTrak for the tally of Gap shoppers. ShopperTrak sells the broader
data -- gleaned from 130 retail clients and 380 malls -- to economists,
bankers and retailers.

ShopperTrak takes into account how much shoppers spend, data that it gets
from credit-card companies and banks, and extrapolates outward to the
entire retail landscape. We can get sales and traffic figures that are
identical to the government's, two months before they can issue their
report, says Bill Martin, ShopperTrak's founder and president.

Of the millions of shoppers videotaped daily in the U.S., many are aware
that security cameras are watching to detect shoplifting. In some cases,
stores post signs to disclose such monitoring. But there is far less
awareness by consumers that they are being filmed for market research.

ShopperTrak discloses its clients -- a list that includes Gap and its
Banana Republic unit; Limited Brands Inc., of Columbus, Ohio, and its
Victoria's Secret chain; PaylessShoe Source Inc., of Topeka, Kan; American
Eagle Outfitters Inc., of Warrendale, Pa.; and Children's Place Retail
StoresInc., of Secaucus, N.J.

Several other research companies that videotape shoppers say they sign
agreements with clients in which they pledge not to disclose their names.
They say their clients want the taping to be secret -- and worry shoppers
would feel alienated or complain of privacy invasion if they knew.

Katherine Albrecht, founder and director of Caspian, a Cambridge, Mass.,
consumer-advocacy group, says consumers have no idea such things as video
tracking are going on and should be informed. When she tells them about
such activities, she says the response she often hears is, Isn't this
illegal, like stalking? Shouldn't there be a law against it? There aren't
any state laws forbidding retailers from videotaping shoppers for research
-- although in New Jersey last week, Caesars Atlantic City Hotel Casino was
fined $80,000 for videotaping the breasts and legs of female employees and
customers with cameras intended for security.

Some research companies' cameras, with lenses as small as a quarter, can
provide data on everything from the density of shopping traffic in an aisle
to the reactions of a shopper gazing at the latest plasma TV set. The cash
register is a popular spot for cameras, too. But cameras can be found in
banks, fast-food outlets and hotel lobbies (but not guest rooms).

Video miners say their research cameras are less invasive than security
cameras, because their subjects aren't scrutinized as closely as security
suspects. Images, they say, are destroyed when the research is done.

Robert Bulmash, founder of the Private Citizen Inc., of Naperville, Ill.,
which advocates for privacy rights, says that being in a retailer's store
doesn't give a

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?


On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

 put it this way it starts to make some sense. In other words, avoiding
 travel whenever possible will (when added to sheeple starting to do the same
 because of all the terible screening stories) eventually start putting some
 squeeze on the airlines.

I expect that eventually in this context would == (hours to [one or two]
days)


 (But then again, DC has plenty of our tax dollars ready to bail out an
 incompetent set of airline managers.) It won't hurt at least.

Even DC can't bail out *all* the airlines.  That kind of boycott *would*
hurt, and hurt badly.  And *fast*.


 As for the former, I am suprised you even need examples...asking for them
 weakens your main point.
 There are plenty of examples to be had, and I'll give you an easy one.
 You're a hot looking, leggy and not super-bright saleschick that ALWAYS
 makes the sale in person (read: Big Bonuses), and much less frequently over
 the phone (read: failed sales quotas and eventual layoff). Your territory is
 Northwest meaning Oregon, NO Cal, Washington, Vancouver, and lots of those
 weird states over there like Idaho and whatnot. You can't possibly drive
 fast enough to make all your meetings in your territory. Will you...

 1) Phone it in
 2) Do some kind of lameass video conferencing
 3) Fly
 4) Get a job at McDonalds

First of all, this is a *great* example of why flying is an *option*, and
not a requirement.  That said, option number 4 is the obvious choice -
however, our leggy bimbo's mileage may vary.

The people of this country have long lost their voice for anything but
whining about how bad things are.  Since collectively, our economic voice
is our loudest voice, it is the one that should be used for the effecting
of immediate and comprehensive change.  The various non-arguments against
this all amount to the same thing: we want change, but we don't want to
have to do anything that might also have any kind of unpleasantness
associated with it.  Fuck that shit.  Either you believe that this shit
is wrong, and you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, or
you can STFU when the nice TSA lady jams her fist up your ass looking for
a reason to show you who's really in charge here.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0xBD4A95BF

 Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is
upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers
destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy
freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be
healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system
whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation,
poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is
biologically and ecologically sustainable.

The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly
indicates that mental illness starts at the top.

Rev Dr Michael Ellner

Roads Gone Wild: No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic_pr.html



Wired 12.12:

Roads Gone Wild 
No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making driving seem
more dangerous could make it safer.
By Tom McNichol 


Hans Monderman is a traffic engineer who hates traffic signs. Oh, he can
put up with the well-placed speed limit placard or a dangerous curve
warning on a major highway, but Monderman considers most signs to be not
only annoying but downright dangerous. To him, they are an admission of
failure, a sign - literally - that a road designer somewhere hasn't done
his job. The trouble with traffic engineers is that when there's a problem
with a road, they always try to add something, Monderman says. To my
mind, it's much better to remove things.


Monderman is one of the leaders of a new breed of traffic engineer - equal
parts urban designer, social scientist, civil engineer, and psychologist.
The approach is radically counterintuitive: Build roads that seem
dangerous, and they'll be safer.

 Monderman and I are tooling around the rural two-lane roads of northern
Holland, where he works as a road designer. He wants to show me a favorite
intersection he designed. It's a busy junction that doesn't contain a
single traffic signal, road sign, or directional marker, an approach that
turns eight decades of traditional traffic thinking on its head.

 Wearing a striped tie and crisp blue blazer with shiny gold buttons,
Monderman looks like the sort of stout, reliable fellow you'd see on a
package of pipe tobacco. He's worked as a civil engineer and traffic
specialist for more than 30 years and, for a time, ran his own driving
school. Droll and reserved, he's easy to underestimate - but his ideas on
road design, safety, and city planning are being adopted from Scandinavia
to the Sunshine State.

 Riding in his green Saab, we glide into Drachten, a 17th-century village
that has grown into a bustling town of more than 40,000. We pass by the
performing arts center, and suddenly, there it is: the Intersection. It's
the confluence of two busy two-lane roads that handle 20,000 cars a day,
plus thousands of bicyclists and pedestrians. Several years ago, Monderman
ripped out all the traditional instruments used by traffic engineers to
influence driver behavior - traffic lights, road markings, and some
pedestrian crossings - and in their place created a roundabout, or traffic
circle. The circle is remarkable for what it doesn't contain: signs or
signals telling drivers how fast to go, who has the right-of-way, or how to
behave. There are no lane markers or curbs separating street and sidewalk,
so it's unclear exactly where the car zone ends and the pedestrian zone
begins. To an approaching driver, the intersection is utterly ambiguous -
and that's the point.

 Monderman and I stand in silence by the side of the road a few minutes,
watching the stream of motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians make their way
through the circle, a giant concrete mixing bowl of transport. Somehow it
all works. The drivers slow to gauge the intentions of crossing bicyclists
and walkers. Negotiations over right-of-way are made through fleeting eye
contact. Remarkably, traffic moves smoothly around the circle with hardly a
brake screeching, horn honking, or obscene gesture. I love it! Monderman
says at last. Pedestrians and cyclists used to avoid this place, but now,
as you see, the cars look out for the cyclists, the cyclists look out for
the pedestrians, and everyone looks out for each other. You can't expect
traffic signs and street markings to encourage that sort of behavior. You
have to build it into the design of the road.

It's no surprise that the Dutch, a people renowned for social
experimentation in practically every facet of life, have embraced new ideas
in traffic management. But variations of Monderman's less-is-more approach
to traffic engineering are spreading around the globe, showing up in
Austria, Denmark, France, Germany, Spain, Sweden, the UK, and the US.

In Denmark, the town of Christianfield stripped the traffic signs and
signals from its major intersection and cut the number of serious or fatal
accidents a year from three to zero. In England, towns in Suffolk and
Wiltshire have removed lane lines from secondary roads in an effort to slow
traffic - experts call it psychological traffic calming. A dozen other
towns in the UK are looking to do the same. A study of center-line removal
in Wiltshire, conducted by the Transport Research Laboratory, a UK
transportation consultancy, found that drivers with no center line to guide
them drove more safely and had a 35 percent decrease in the number of
accidents.

In the US, traffic engineers are beginning to rethink the dictum that the
car is king and pedestrians are well advised to get the hell off the road.
In West Palm Beach, Florida, planners have redesigned several major
streets, removing traffic signals and turn lanes, narrowing the roadbed,
and bringing people and cars

E-protection necessary for nation's security: Kalam

http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnewsid=49160
p

E-protection necessary for nation's security: Kalam

 [Business India]: Chennai, Dec 21 : India was moving into an era of
e-business, e-marketing, e-commerce and e-banking and encryption
technology to protect network communication was the only way to ensure the
nation's security, said President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam.

The president was addressing scientists here Monday evening at the 5th
International Conference on Cryptology in India via videoconferencing.

Reminding his audience that Indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam's work
was being applied in communication networks today, Kalam said:
Cryptography is a wealth generator and wealth protector.

Noting that India was the only country in the world with a huge linguistic
diversity and more than 3,000 languages, he asked: Can we make use of this
diversity to our advantage by using different languages as a cryptographic
tool?

Addressing several hundred delegates from all over the world, who had
gathered here for the three day conference that began Monday, Kalam said:
Nations that are capable of generating and managing information in a
secure way will become world leaders and economic superpowers

He called for state-of-the-art technology at competitive costs in India, to
secure Indian e-systems.

Inaugurating the conference, hosted by the Institute of Mathematical
Sciences and the Society for Electronic Transactions (SETS), principal
scientific advisor to the central government R. Chidambaram said the
science of encryption was the only know-how technologists had to protect
e-systems.

Information flows over open networks. And to secure this information is of
social, political, commercial and strategic importance, Chidambaram said.

He asked Indian scientists for research inputs into standardisation
processes, called 'advanced encryption standard' it could develop quickly
in India.

Experts from various countries, including France, South Korea, Australia,
Belgium and Germany are attending the meet.

During the conference, 147 scientific papers on the art and science of
encryption will be presented.

Cryptology is the science of hiding information through codes. Mathematical
systems provide some of the best encryptions the world has so far
generated. It is also the art of breaking down codes and getting at secrets.

--Indo-Asian News Service

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Profile Has Been Added

2004-12-21 Thread Fourbiden-Fruitz


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If you have found a lady or not to be paired up then continue.
http://meeting-play.com/out/

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Shawn K. Quinn

[Note, I'm on the list, and I don't need two copies of every message in
this thread]

On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 06:34 -0600, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
 
  Agreed, if you want
  
 
 And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what it boils down to.  You *want*
 things your own way, but you are too fucking spoiled to fight fo it - so
 instead you whine and moan.

Did you even read the rest of the post?

Let me requote what I actually wrote, in its entirety.

 Agreed, if you want or need to get between cities faster than land-based
 travel will allow, flying is in fact a requirement. That was, in fact, my 
 point. 

If you *need* to be somewhere 1000 miles or more away within a few
hours, driving, riding Greyhound, or riding Amtrak are NOT OPTIONS.

If you *need* to get to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc., driving, riding
Greyhound, or riding Amtrak are NOT OPTIONS.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RAH's postings.

At 10:23 AM -0500 12/21/04, Somebody wrote:
What the hell does an article about gypsy
mechanics have to do with cypherpunks?

I plead anarchic markets, m'lord. Emerging phenomena, and all that, in
spite all regulation to the contrary.

Which was why I sent the traffic thing as well. No laws (or regulation) is
better rules, in many interesting cases.

 It may
be interesting to you, but it's off-topic,

You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.

 and
voluminous.

That's what your 'd' key is for.

If that's not good enough, perhaps an addition to your kill-file is in
order. Or you need assistance in creating a filter for your mailer?

Cheers,
RAH


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Eugen Leitl

On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 11:57:08AM -0600, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

 If you *need* to get to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc., driving, riding
 Greyhound, or riding Amtrak are NOT OPTIONS.

Emigration is always an option, though. Quite a few have done that already.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


pgp3lMqfRO6lw.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Border Patrol hails new ID system

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20041220-103705-9177r

The Washington Times
 www.washingtontimes.com

Border Patrol hails new ID system
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published December 21, 2004
Border Patrol agents assigned to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
identified and arrested 23,502 persons with criminal records nationwide
through a new biometric integrated fingerprint system during a three-month
period beginning in September, CBP officials said yesterday.
 Most of those arrested were foreign nationals.
 This 21st-century biometric identification technology is a critical
law-enforcement tool for our CBP Border Patrol agents, said CBP
Commissioner Robert C. Bonner. It allows CBP Border Patrol agents to
quickly identify criminals by working faster, smarter and employing
technology to better secure the nation.
 Mr. Bonner has described the new system as absolutely critical to
CBP's priority mission of keeping terrorists and terrorist weapons out of
the country, adding that it gives the agents the ability to identify those
with criminal backgrounds we could never have identified before.
 The program, known as the Integrated Automated Fingerprint
Identification System (IAFIS), is a biometric identification technology
enabling Border Patrol agents to search CBP's Automated Biometric
Identification System (IDENT) and the FBI's criminal fingerprint database
simultaneously, CBP spokesman Mario Villarreal said.
 It allows Border Patrol agents to rapidly identify people with
outstanding warrants and criminal histories by electronically comparing a
live-scanned 10-fingerprint entry against a comprehensive national database
of previously captured fingerprints, he said.
 The IAFIS/IDENT system went on line this year at all 148 Border Patrol
station throughout the country. It began as a pilot project in San Diego,
where it was employed at the Border Patrol's Brown Field, Calif., station,
and at the Calexico, Calif., port of entry.
 During the three-month period this year, the agents identified and
detained 84 homicide suspects, 37 kidnapping suspects, 151 sexual assault
suspects, 212 robbery suspects, 1,238 suspects for assaults of other types,
and 2,630 suspects implicated in dangerous narcotics-related charges.
 CBP is the unified border agency within the Department of Homeland
Security charged with the management, control and protection of the
nation's borders at and between the ports of entry. CBP is charged with
keeping terrorists and terrorist weapons out of the country while enforcing
hundreds of U.S. laws.

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: RAH's postings.

I actually found the mechanics' article quite interesting. I think it's what 
anarchy starts to look like in the real world...ie, there are still laws 
'somewhere', but they end up functioning like a 'value add' or quality 
control. I've argued on numerous occasions that NYC already has some very 
anarchic elements.

I also found it useful from a very practical persepctive...I've got good 
names to ask for in case I need some cheap (or discrete!) work done.

-TD
From: R.A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RAH's postings.
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:04:34 -0500
At 10:23 AM -0500 12/21/04, Somebody wrote:
What the hell does an article about gypsy
mechanics have to do with cypherpunks?
I plead anarchic markets, m'lord. Emerging phenomena, and all that, in
spite all regulation to the contrary.
Which was why I sent the traffic thing as well. No laws (or regulation) is
better rules, in many interesting cases.
 It may
be interesting to you, but it's off-topic,
You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.
 and
voluminous.
That's what your 'd' key is for.
If that's not good enough, perhaps an addition to your kill-file is in
order. Or you need assistance in creating a filter for your mailer?
Cheers,
RAH
--
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Justin

On 2004-12-21T10:38:10-0600, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
 
  put it this way it starts to make some sense. In other words, avoiding
  travel whenever possible will (when added to sheeple starting to do the same
  because of all the terible screening stories) eventually start putting some
  squeeze on the airlines.
 
 I expect that eventually in this context would == (hours to [one or two]
 days)

Academic.  Everyone will not boycott, so the time frame will increase.

  (But then again, DC has plenty of our tax dollars ready to bail out an
  incompetent set of airline managers.) It won't hurt at least.
 
 Even DC can't bail out *all* the airlines.  That kind of boycott *would*
 hurt, and hurt badly.  And *fast*.

Never play chicken with the federal government.  They can bail out all
the airlines (minus one: they don't need to bail out Southwest
Airlines).  They'd just need to raise taxes or increase the debt,
neither of which is a major impediment.

  1) Phone it in
  2) Do some kind of lameass video conferencing
  3) Fly
  4) Get a job at McDonalds
 
 First of all, this is a *great* example of why flying is an *option*, and
 not a requirement.  That said, option number 4 is the obvious choice -
 however, our leggy bimbo's mileage may vary.

This is a bit misleading.  The leggy bimbo can choose option 4 if she's
not smart enough to do something else... like _local_ sales, or even
starting up a psychic reading shop and making lots of money from other
bimbos.

[i2p] weekly status notes [dec 21] (fwd from jrandom@i2p.net)

2004-12-21 Thread Eugen Leitl

- Forwarded message from jrandom [EMAIL PROTECTED] -

From: jrandom [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:49:34 -0800
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [i2p] weekly status notes [dec 21]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ev'nin folks, time for our status update

* Index
1) 0.4.2.4  0.4.2.5
2) 0.5 strategy
3) naming
4) eepsite roundup
5) ???

1) 0.4.2.4  0.4.2.5

With last week's 0.4.2.4 release, we saw the deployment of some new
load balancing algorithms to throttle tunnel participation based on
actual bandwidth usage, along side peer profiling updates to select
peers better through a wider sample of data.  This has done pretty
well at both choking tunnel participation when necessary and finding
good peers when possible.

Another major update in that release was a change to how we verify
time synchronization - rather than just checking the time sync once
during connection establishment, peers now periodically send
messages to each other with their current time, and if the time
received is too far skewed, the connection is dropped.  This has
helped kick a few routers who were skewing off the net until they
recovered (which is good), and the vast majority of peers have been
quite close to 'correct' (you can see the clock skew on the
/oldconsole.jsp page)

With that, the network has been performing pretty well, but we were
still seeing the occational bulk disconnect.  After some debugging
we tracked down an unintentional and wholely unnecessary DNS lookup
that occurred whenever a router sent a message to a peer who has a
hostname specified.  This not only wasted time, but it wasted time
within the jobqueue - essentially injecting a whole lot of lag for
no reason.  With that lookup removed, the router handled much
better under heavily congested situations, but we were still seeing
those occational bulk disconnects.  After digging around in the
stats and logging, we came up with a plausible theory that explains
why those disconnects have been occurring - blaming them almost
entirely on those DNS lookups.  To test that theory (and to deploy
some other goodies), we pushed out the 0.4.2.5 release this
afternoon.

We'll see how it goes.

* 2) 0.5 strategy

As the roadmap [1] says, the next planned release is 0.5, including
a revised tunnel pool and encryption/id technique.  Avoiding a
big explanation (see [2], [3], [4], and a tiny bit of [5]), we will
do this in two stages - first revamp the tunnel pooling and
push that out as an interim release, debugging what is necessary,
then revamp the encryption/id stuff, pushing that out as 0.5.  Oh,
and of course, once the algorithms for the pooling and encryption
updates are in pretty good shape, they'll be posted up here and on
the website for review.

Along the way though, there will probably be small bugfix releases
unrelated to the 0.5 stuff, but I don't have any specifically
planned.

[1] http://www.i2p.net/roadmap
[2] http://www.i2p.net/todo#tunnelId
[3] http://www.i2p.net/todo#ordering
[4] http://www.i2p.net/todo#tunnelLength
[5] http://www.i2p.net/todo#batching

* 3) naming

Yikes, now that I think about it, I really don't want to talk
about naming yet - just download Ragnarok's latest addressbook
app (2.0.1) from http://ragnarok.i2p/, check out susi's web
based manager at http://susi.i2p/susidns/manager, and dig
through the stats at http://orion.i2p/ and
http://susi.i2p/susisworld.html

* 4) eepsite roundup

There have been some notable developments on various eepsites worth
mentioning:

= http://frosk.i2p/ - I2PContent doc updates
= http://orion.i2p/ - new form to submit your keys to
= http://piespy.i2p/ - neat graphs of the irc channels
= http://forum.fr.i2p/ - french language forum
= http://pastebin.i2p/ - stop flooding the channels!

Of course, there have also been updates to other sites as well,
plus some other new sites - check orion.i2p and sort the list by
'last updated' to review (or just go to 'em all ;)

5) ???

I know there's lots more going on, so please, swing on by the
meeting in a few minutes and we can chat 'bout stuff.

=jr
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___
i2p mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://i2p.dnsalias.net/mailman/listinfo/i2p

- End forwarded message -
-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net

pgpiojgwfuEW8.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: RAH's postings.

2004-12-21 Thread Anonymous

Someone wrote:
 
 At 10:23 AM -0500 12/21/04, Somebody wrote:

RAH, if you want to anonymize a quoted email, it helps if you remove the
In-Reply-To: and References: headers.

 What the hell does an article about gypsy
 mechanics have to do with cypherpunks?
 
 I plead anarchic markets, m'lord. Emerging phenomena, and all that, in
 spite all regulation to the contrary.
 
 Which was why I sent the traffic thing as well. No laws (or regulation) is
 better rules, in many interesting cases.
 
  It may
 be interesting to you, but it's off-topic,
 
 You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.
 
  and
 voluminous.
 
 That's what your 'd' key is for.
 
 If that's not good enough, perhaps an addition to your kill-file is in
 order. Or you need assistance in creating a filter for your mailer?

P.T., there's not much technical discussion here.  Stick to cryptography-l
if you don't care about streetside auto repair.

Re: RAH's postings.

At 11:47 PM +0100 12/21/04, Anonymous wrote:
RAH, if you want to anonymize a quoted email, it helps if you remove the
In-Reply-To: and References: headers.

Doh.

Not the first time that's happened, either.

*Gotta* remember that cut and paste thing...



Yours in header suppression,
RAH

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: good soviet young

2004-12-21 Thread Tod Whitfield

Client Update:

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http://matterjump.com/ora/enter.php


Season's Greetings from the most exclusive private local meeting place 
online.Let us know if this reached you in error by going here:
http://matterjump.com/bye/

Re: Israeli Airport Security Questioning Re: CRYPTO-GRAM, December 15, 2004

2004-12-21 Thread Major Variola (ret)

At 02:16 PM 12/20/04 -0500, John Kelsey wrote:
No doubt a real intelligence agent would be good at getting through
this kind of screening, but that doesn't mean most of the people who
want to blow up planes would be any good at it!

You really continue to understimate the freedom fighters, don't you?
(The first) King George did the same.

Re: [Antisocial] Sept. 11 Conspiracy Theorist

2004-12-21 Thread Major Variola (ret)

At 01:23 PM 12/19/04 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
..They have computers, they're tappin' phone lines, you know that
ain't
allowed..

Zappa...Heads...Crimson? A profile is emerging here! Either that or you

recently broke into your dad's vinyl collection...

Very funny.  My walls o' vinyl are, BTW, licenses to KaZaa the content
in more convenient forms.

Here, this will amuse you.  Only last week did I burn my first audio
CD.  The week before, my first data CD.  Before that, it was hot backups

and ZIP disks.   Yes, we're 4 years into the 21st century.  Dig.

As far as Dad's, well, how many five year olds know Waits, Krimso,
and Einsturzende, but know nothing of Brittny?

I recently recycled a computer fan guard into the AA site of a
mock toy RPG, using styro cups as the grenade and a broken plastic
gun as the handle.  Compleat with balaclava on the young-un.
Stick that in your chillum and process it.

And have a nice solstice.

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Major Variola (ret)

At 04:23 PM 12/19/04 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
Funny how most Americans only wake up after it happens to them.

As EC said, the only we understand is dead Merkins.

Case in point? How 'bout that proud-n-patriotic lady in Farenheit
911? As
far as I could tell, prior to her son's death she was all in favor of
the
Attack on Iraq and even encouraged her son to serve (I hate that
fucking

Karma rules, mofo.

[no subject]

2004-12-21 Thread James

Want a cheap Watch?
http://imo.nepel.com

Hello Cpunks

2004-12-21 Thread Shirley Davenport


Hi Cpunks!
Nice to meet you.

Re: Israeli Airport Security Questioning Re: CRYPTO-GRAM, December 15, 2004

2004-12-21 Thread John Kelsey

The difference here is that Bad_Guy is visiting the
country for the first time. Now, there are fewer
questions to ask.

But that's a common enough situation that the questioners are going to be ready 
for it.  And I bet a lot of the point of their questioning is just to see if 
they detect signs of stress where they expect to.  If you are a smart person 
who does something like this 20 times a day, you'll soon get a really good feel 
for when something odd is going on.  Also, any kind of in-depth questioning is 
likely to uncover a lot of fraudulent claims.  If I say I'm a chemical 
engineer, it's not going to take much depth of knowledge for the questioner to 
find out I don't know things any chemical engineer would know, for example.  
(It wouldn't be hard to come up with some computerized system for pulling up 
lists of questions like this.  Like, someone says he's Catholic, and you ask 
him who was born without sin as a direct result of the immaculate conception, 
or ask him to say a Hail Mary.)  So this might force you to tell more of the 
truth, which makes it easier to profile you.  

And this is all physical / procedural security.  You're not building an 
unclimbable wall, you're building lots of challenging speedbumps.  No doubt a 
real intelligence agent would be good at getting through this kind of 
screening, but that doesn't mean most of the people who want to blow up planes 
would be any good at it!  

Sarad.

--John

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?


On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

 Well, there's a TINY little hole in your logic here...

 Scale of distance is the only difference.  Either you support the system
 or you don't.  I don't: I either drive to jobs (charging for mileage) or I
 pass on them, rather than take part in the police state that is todays air
 system.  You have the very same choices.  The argument eveyone is making
 here is that it is too much of an inconvenience (financial or otherwise),
 *not* to fly.  Sorry, but that's just pure self-serving BS.

 For one, Flying can easily be a requirement, not an option.

You keep asserting this, but at the same time fail to provide an example.
Please show how flying can easily be a requirement, not an option.  One
legitimate example will suffice.


 But that's besides the point here.

No - that's the entire point here.


 The real point is that some Super-JAT could (5 years from now when there are
 ubiquitous highway checkpoints) argue that walking from NYC to Boston may
 be difficult but it IS possible. Or of course (after Tenent's vision for
 the internet is realized) You could simply Fedex those files, you don't
 need to use the internet

So, your position is that we should not take action now, because we may
have to take the same action later?

If people would assert their economic powers today through refusal to fund
the airlines, the same threat would prevent your example from being
possible in the future.  The only reason your walking scenario is even a
little plausible is because TheMan/G'mint/etc., knows that there will be
no pushback on *any* front.

Also, not that while airlines are heavily regulated, they are not
(theoretically at least) publicly funded, and as such, your right to use
them is limited - whereas roads are public property, and will be a lot
harder to place prohibitions upon.  A real boycott of airlines would take
only days to bring both the airlines and the TSA to it's knees - the
economic impact would be both national in scope and immediate in effect:
you can make no legitimate argument for not addressing the TSA problem
head on.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0xBD4A95BF

 Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is
upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers
destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy
freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be
healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system
whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation,
poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is
biologically and ecologically sustainable.

The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly
indicates that mental illness starts at the top.

Rev Dr Michael Ellner

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Shawn K. Quinn

On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 11:56 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
 Well, there's a TINY little hole in your logic here...

  [J.A. Terranson wrote:]
 Scale of distance is the only difference.  Either you support the system
 or you don't.  I don't: I either drive to jobs (charging for mileage) or I
 pass on them, rather than take part in the police state that is todays air
 system.  You have the very same choices.  The argument eveyone is making
 here is that it is too much of an inconvenience (financial or otherwise),
 *not* to fly.  Sorry, but that's just pure self-serving BS.
 
 For one, Flying can easily be a requirement, not an option. But that's 
 besides the point here.
 
 The real point is that some Super-JAT could (5 years from now when there are 
 ubiquitous highway checkpoints) argue that walking from NYC to Boston may 
 be difficult but it IS possible. Or of course (after Tenent's vision for 
 the internet is realized) You could simply Fedex those files, you don't 
 need to use the internet

Agreed, if you want or need to get between cities faster than land-based
travel will allow, flying is in fact a requirement. That was, in fact,
my point. (Would anyone actually resort to walking between NYC and
Boston?)

As an aside, I often jokingly used the phrase the only broadband
connections we would have would be UPS and FedEx back in the days when
DSL and cable modem connections were not as ubitiquous (yes I know
satellite is also an option but it's $DEITY-awful slow and only usable
for the most basic of needs). However, regulation of the Internet such
that couriers would be the only feasible way to move large amounts of
data around (burned to CD or DVD as the case may be) is not a joking
matter in the least.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Flaw with lava lamp entropy source

2004-12-21 Thread John Kelsey

From: James A. Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Dec 18, 2004 2:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Flaw with lava lamp entropy source

..
These days the video entropy source is not a lava lamp, but a
lens cap - in the dark, the ccds generate significant thermal
noise, which (unlike chaotic noise) cannot fail, unless someone
immerses the camera in liquid helium. 

Do you (does anyone) know of any papers that have formally analyzed this 
entropy source?  

--digsig
 James A. Donald

--John

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

Well, there's a TINY little hole in your logic here...
Scale of distance is the only difference.  Either you support the system
or you don't.  I don't: I either drive to jobs (charging for mileage) or I
pass on them, rather than take part in the police state that is todays air
system.  You have the very same choices.  The argument eveyone is making
here is that it is too much of an inconvenience (financial or otherwise),
*not* to fly.  Sorry, but that's just pure self-serving BS.
For one, Flying can easily be a requirement, not an option. But that's 
besides the point here.

The real point is that some Super-JAT could (5 years from now when there are 
ubiquitous highway checkpoints) argue that walking from NYC to Boston may 
be difficult but it IS possible. Or of course (after Tenent's vision for 
the internet is realized) You could simply Fedex those files, you don't 
need to use the internet

..and so on...it get silly after this though.
-TD

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?


On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

 put it this way it starts to make some sense. In other words, avoiding
 travel whenever possible will (when added to sheeple starting to do the same
 because of all the terible screening stories) eventually start putting some
 squeeze on the airlines.

I expect that eventually in this context would == (hours to [one or two]
days)


 (But then again, DC has plenty of our tax dollars ready to bail out an
 incompetent set of airline managers.) It won't hurt at least.

Even DC can't bail out *all* the airlines.  That kind of boycott *would*
hurt, and hurt badly.  And *fast*.


 As for the former, I am suprised you even need examples...asking for them
 weakens your main point.
 There are plenty of examples to be had, and I'll give you an easy one.
 You're a hot looking, leggy and not super-bright saleschick that ALWAYS
 makes the sale in person (read: Big Bonuses), and much less frequently over
 the phone (read: failed sales quotas and eventual layoff). Your territory is
 Northwest meaning Oregon, NO Cal, Washington, Vancouver, and lots of those
 weird states over there like Idaho and whatnot. You can't possibly drive
 fast enough to make all your meetings in your territory. Will you...

 1) Phone it in
 2) Do some kind of lameass video conferencing
 3) Fly
 4) Get a job at McDonalds

First of all, this is a *great* example of why flying is an *option*, and
not a requirement.  That said, option number 4 is the obvious choice -
however, our leggy bimbo's mileage may vary.

The people of this country have long lost their voice for anything but
whining about how bad things are.  Since collectively, our economic voice
is our loudest voice, it is the one that should be used for the effecting
of immediate and comprehensive change.  The various non-arguments against
this all amount to the same thing: we want change, but we don't want to
have to do anything that might also have any kind of unpleasantness
associated with it.  Fuck that shit.  Either you believe that this shit
is wrong, and you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, or
you can STFU when the nice TSA lady jams her fist up your ass looking for
a reason to show you who's really in charge here.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0xBD4A95BF

 Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is
upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers
destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy
freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be
healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system
whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation,
poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is
biologically and ecologically sustainable.

The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly
indicates that mental illness starts at the top.

Rev Dr Michael Ellner

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Eugen Leitl

On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 11:57:08AM -0600, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

 If you *need* to get to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc., driving, riding
 Greyhound, or riding Amtrak are NOT OPTIONS.

Emigration is always an option, though. Quite a few have done that already.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


pgpoiBVBIQ9G9.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: RAH's postings.

At 10:23 AM -0500 12/21/04, Somebody wrote:
What the hell does an article about gypsy
mechanics have to do with cypherpunks?

I plead anarchic markets, m'lord. Emerging phenomena, and all that, in
spite all regulation to the contrary.

Which was why I sent the traffic thing as well. No laws (or regulation) is
better rules, in many interesting cases.

 It may
be interesting to you, but it's off-topic,

You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.

 and
voluminous.

That's what your 'd' key is for.

If that's not good enough, perhaps an addition to your kill-file is in
order. Or you need assistance in creating a filter for your mailer?

Cheers,
RAH


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Shawn K. Quinn

[Note, I'm on the list, and I don't need two copies of every message in
this thread]

On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 06:34 -0600, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
 
  Agreed, if you want
  
 
 And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what it boils down to.  You *want*
 things your own way, but you are too fucking spoiled to fight fo it - so
 instead you whine and moan.

Did you even read the rest of the post?

Let me requote what I actually wrote, in its entirety.

 Agreed, if you want or need to get between cities faster than land-based
 travel will allow, flying is in fact a requirement. That was, in fact, my 
 point. 

If you *need* to be somewhere 1000 miles or more away within a few
hours, driving, riding Greyhound, or riding Amtrak are NOT OPTIONS.

If you *need* to get to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc., driving, riding
Greyhound, or riding Amtrak are NOT OPTIONS.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Coffee, Tea, or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wife's Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell at the Airport and Then Lying About Why We Put You There?

2004-12-21 Thread Justin

On 2004-12-21T10:38:10-0600, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
 
  put it this way it starts to make some sense. In other words, avoiding
  travel whenever possible will (when added to sheeple starting to do the same
  because of all the terible screening stories) eventually start putting some
  squeeze on the airlines.
 
 I expect that eventually in this context would == (hours to [one or two]
 days)

Academic.  Everyone will not boycott, so the time frame will increase.

  (But then again, DC has plenty of our tax dollars ready to bail out an
  incompetent set of airline managers.) It won't hurt at least.
 
 Even DC can't bail out *all* the airlines.  That kind of boycott *would*
 hurt, and hurt badly.  And *fast*.

Never play chicken with the federal government.  They can bail out all
the airlines (minus one: they don't need to bail out Southwest
Airlines).  They'd just need to raise taxes or increase the debt,
neither of which is a major impediment.

  1) Phone it in
  2) Do some kind of lameass video conferencing
  3) Fly
  4) Get a job at McDonalds
 
 First of all, this is a *great* example of why flying is an *option*, and
 not a requirement.  That said, option number 4 is the obvious choice -
 however, our leggy bimbo's mileage may vary.

This is a bit misleading.  The leggy bimbo can choose option 4 if she's
not smart enough to do something else... like _local_ sales, or even
starting up a psychic reading shop and making lots of money from other
bimbos.

Re: RAH's postings.

I actually found the mechanics' article quite interesting. I think it's what 
anarchy starts to look like in the real world...ie, there are still laws 
'somewhere', but they end up functioning like a 'value add' or quality 
control. I've argued on numerous occasions that NYC already has some very 
anarchic elements.

I also found it useful from a very practical persepctive...I've got good 
names to ask for in case I need some cheap (or discrete!) work done.

-TD
From: R.A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RAH's postings.
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:04:34 -0500
At 10:23 AM -0500 12/21/04, Somebody wrote:
What the hell does an article about gypsy
mechanics have to do with cypherpunks?
I plead anarchic markets, m'lord. Emerging phenomena, and all that, in
spite all regulation to the contrary.
Which was why I sent the traffic thing as well. No laws (or regulation) is
better rules, in many interesting cases.
 It may
be interesting to you, but it's off-topic,
You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.
 and
voluminous.
That's what your 'd' key is for.
If that's not good enough, perhaps an addition to your kill-file is in
order. Or you need assistance in creating a filter for your mailer?
Cheers,
RAH
--
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: RAH's postings.

2004-12-21 Thread Anonymous

Someone wrote:
 
 At 10:23 AM -0500 12/21/04, Somebody wrote:

RAH, if you want to anonymize a quoted email, it helps if you remove the
In-Reply-To: and References: headers.

 What the hell does an article about gypsy
 mechanics have to do with cypherpunks?
 
 I plead anarchic markets, m'lord. Emerging phenomena, and all that, in
 spite all regulation to the contrary.
 
 Which was why I sent the traffic thing as well. No laws (or regulation) is
 better rules, in many interesting cases.
 
  It may
 be interesting to you, but it's off-topic,
 
 You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.
 
  and
 voluminous.
 
 That's what your 'd' key is for.
 
 If that's not good enough, perhaps an addition to your kill-file is in
 order. Or you need assistance in creating a filter for your mailer?

P.T., there's not much technical discussion here.  Stick to cryptography-l
if you don't care about streetside auto repair.

Paging Black Unicorn, Part 2: Money Laundering in the Geodesic Economy

Here's the article in question...

Cheers,
RAH
---

http://www.arraydev.com/commerce/JIBC/9703-12.htm
JIBC

Hettinga's Best of the Month

Money Laundering in the Geodesic Economy
 From Robert Hettinga
 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 URL: http://www.shipwright.com
 Robert Hettinga is a financial cryptography strategy and policy consultant
in Boston. He is founder of the First International Conference on Financial
Cryptography (FC97), the International Financial Cryptography Association,
the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, and the e$ and e$pam mail lists. He
is also financial cryptography editor of JIBC.
From: Black Unicorn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Hi all,

   I suspect that one of the principal things that the Feds are
   worried about is the potential for money-laundering.


 This is a loaded statement. Money laundering is only a concern in so far
as it means government control over the economy is diminished. (And to the
extent that it allows one to seize the funds a their title converts the to
United States at the instant of commission).

 Money laundering is a tack on offense. (Much like, say, mail fraud). The
number of original cases which derive from actual money laundering
investigation is vanishingly small. Instead it is usually added on to an
indictment when the defendant is or has been under investigation for
something else.

 Because money laundering statutes are generally phrased something like
knowingly concealing the proceeds of a criminal act, usually you find the
criminal act first and then look to see if attempts were made to conceal
the funds. Professional money launderers are rarely caught.
   At the moment, conversion of money from illegal sources  (drug
   sales, extortion by terrorists, major theft etc) into the legal
   economy (equities, bonds, property  etc) is difficult because
   any financial institution is obliged, in most parts of the
   world, to obtain proof of identity of its  clients and toreport
   suspicions of wrongdoing.


 I disagree rather strongly. Currently the favorate method is to hand the
cash, in bulk, to the professional money launderer who, on the spot, cuts a
clean bank check (perhaps from a reputable import/export or realestate
company) for the cash amount minus fee (5-20% usually). The launderer takes
all the risk in the process, including smuggling the funds out, hashing
them through iterations and (usually) returning them right back into the
United States as legitimate overseas investment. It's like the separation
of capital and management skill. The money launderer is free to concentrate
100% of his time to managing his extensive laundering empire, the hundreds
or thousands of shells and webs of accounts and maintains the liquidity to
drop 5 million on the notice of a phone call.
   Hence, I suspect, the $750 limit.
   The reason for this check is that it is otherwise very easy to
   shuffle funds back and forth between financial instruments to
   confuse the  trail and defeat the cops.


 The $750 limit is going to do about nothing for the problem of money money
laundering. It will inconvenience the casual launderer, and that is about
all. What it will do is put a significant cost on the head of the consumer.
A CTR costs a bank between $5 and $15 to file today (according to the ABA).
$17 if you listen to the Report of the Financial Action Task Force on Money
Laundering.

 In 1993 the 368 largest banks (assets over $1 billion) filed 4.5 million
CTRs. The cost was estimated at $72 million dollars. (John Byrne, General
Counsel, American Bankers Association). 10,765,000 CTRs were filed in 1994.
About .5% are marked suspicious.

 Now the $750 limit? The number of reports to be filed is staggering and
.5% is beyond government to police properly without 5,000 new hires. No,
clearly the $750 limit is not to catch money launderers, but to create and
perpetuate detailed transactions record keeping.

 FinCEN is much more useful to link transactions to defendents in non-money
laundering cases. What do you mean you weren't in California in May? Our
records show you accepted two wire transfers there on the 15th and the
16th.

 And consider this. If I build a machine which has a 95% accuracy rate in
detecting money laundering, that is to say that it will identify a given
transaction as money laundering or legitimate with 95% accuracy, I still
have a serious problem. Given 10,000 transactions, with .2% (20)
representing money laundering we find the following figures: 19 (95% of 20)
money laundering transactions will be flagged as illegal 1 (5% of 20)
laundering transaction will be incorrectly flagged as legal. 500 (5% of
10,000) legitimate transactions will be incorrectly flagged as illegal.

 For every one money laundering transaction flagged there will be 26
legitimate transactions flagged and only about 3.6% of all the flagged
transactions will actually be illegitimate. Now

Paging Black Unicorn (was RE: Costs of Money Laundering Enforcement)