RE: Monkeywrenching airport security
On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, David Honig wrote: At 10:57 AM 11/17/01 -0800, Sandy Sandfort wrote: Airport chemical sniffers apparently look for the signature of nitrogen compounds, not explosives, per se. I've often wondered how many weekend Unless they look for nitrogen in bulk of the specimen (PGNAA), a very expensive/low-processivity technique unsuitable for mass luggage screening they're limited to stuff stuck to surfaces (lasers, swabbing/ion motility spectrometer) and volatile sniffers (chemical sensors, canines). Many classes of explosives contain no nitrogen, many of those which contain nitrogen and are free of volatile tracers don't emit much volatiles, if properly packaged even very volatile explosives (say, methyl or ethylnitrate) can be sealed (glass bottles). Generally, the maker and the packager, unless they work very cleanly/are suited should not be the courier, nor the outer containers be present in the contaminated area. In short, detection probability is only high for sloppy/dumb people. gardeners have gotten hassled and delayed because of trace amounts of ammonia-based fertilizers on their person and effects. If you plan to fly, Salts are different from traces of uncombusted nitrocellulose deposited on any surface of a nearby gun being fired. be sure to wash your hands thoroughly before heading out for the airport if you have been shoot, gardening or house cleaning. I've wondered about that too; airport sniffers must have encountered Miracle Gro and angina nitro during the early days, measuring Nitroglycerin is not volatile, is present in large dilution (~0.1%) in small quanitities (pharma bottle). Ditto nitrate salts in a water solution. a false alarm rate. Shooting is scary; you could contaminate your car driving back from the range, then contaminate your travel gear. I think you should be able to get a good positive if you'd fire several rounds of vanilla smokeless with baggage surface being near the muzzle of the gun. Try it sometime, if you're unafraid of winding up in a database. I've found that transporting computer parts (motherboard) in hand luggage can suffice to trigger swabbing (if you're really bored you can discuss detection of Semtex traces with airport security). The explosives expert in one of the older terror trial docs on cryptome says things suggesting that a few washes will remove traces. (And contaminate clothes washed with them.) Just use an overall when you're at the range, and wash it separate. I once checked out the screen on a sniffer, and they list nitrates as a category. I suppose having PETN (another category) detected on your laptop would be harder to explain :-) If you want to fool the security, you should become familiar with the type of detectors used on your luggage. Of course, best solution is using human factors to not have your stuff being screened at all. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/;leitl/a __ ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3
RE: Monkeywrenching airport security
At 11:51 AM 11/18/01 +0100, Eugene Leitl wrote: gardeners have gotten hassled and delayed because of trace amounts of ammonia-based fertilizers on their person and effects. If you plan to fly, Salts are different from traces of uncombusted nitrocellulose deposited on any surface of a nearby gun being fired. KNO3 is of interest to airport security eg in gunpowder. Similar salts are in fertilizer. Ergo the caution. Also, some of us have had a black powder addiction at one time. Nitroglycerin is not volatile, is present in large dilution (~0.1%) in small quanitities (pharma bottle). Ditto nitrate salts in a water solution. If you just took an angina pill I imagine the mechanical noses can detect it on your hands or things you touch immediately afterwards. I think you should be able to get a good positive if you'd fire several rounds of vanilla smokeless with baggage surface being near the muzzle of the gun. Or blackpowder (or noncorrosive powder substitutes).. or wore that clothing when setting off firecrackers... Try it sometime, if you're unafraid of winding up in a database. :-) I've found that transporting computer parts (motherboard) in hand luggage can suffice to trigger swabbing (if you're really bored you can discuss detection of Semtex traces with airport security). Not out of San Jose Intl... but discussing Semtex (tm) could get you federal charges in the states... Actually I have seen someone set off the sniffer, the local airline rep came over, they chatted briefly, the person was on their way, maybe 30 extra seconds taken. San Jose again. Of course, best solution is using human factors to not have your stuff being screened at all. Love work, hate domination, and do not let your name come to the attention of the ruling powers. -Talmud/Sayings of the Fathers
RE: Monkeywrenching airport security
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Monkeywrenching airport security Walk into an airport in baggy pants with powdered expolosives in a leg bag which can slowly be dispersed as you walk... Airport chemical sniffers apparently look for the signature of nitrogen compounds, not explosives, per se. I've often wondered how many weekend gardeners have gotten hassled and delayed because of trace amounts of ammonia-based fertilizers on their person and effects. If you plan to fly, be sure to wash your hands thoroughly before heading out for the airport if you have been shoot, gardening or house cleaning. S a n d y
RE: Monkeywrenching
-- On 16 Nov 2001, at 16:50, Aimee Farr wrote: I meant it in the sense that it sounds like they are talking about criminal defense lawyers. (i.e., make numerous references to the US Constitution, defenders, etc-etc.) Criminal defense has already been criminalized in hard to enforce laws such as the drug laws, with a various lawyers being busted on charges of providing competent and relevant defense for the accused. Government propaganda is already appearing to justify such punishment. While channel surfing I saw a fictional show about a bunch of lawyers who are in danger of being disbarred for taking drug traffickers as clients, and they are suffering orgasms of liberal guilt about how much they deserve punishment for accepting such terrible clients. Presumably it is still OK for the moment to defend rapists and murderers. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG bHgDORB62aC6HjcAremd3dhdRe6M9c83vYRND2Zh 45QXPQhYmXU9sf6mOHbk16N+w5/9n5dTxqbgu8Ml3
re: Monkeywrenching airport security
How useful. That'll really, I mean REALLY show 'em who's boss, as they shut the airport down and strand thousands of hapless travelers who I am sure will really understand your idiotic point. Which is ... ? Shit, all it takes is for you to put on some sneakers, run rapidly past the security checkpoint(s), perhaps open an alarmed door on your way out to the tarmac. Do it at a hub, shut down everything. Doesn't take anything as stupidly exotic as powdered explosive in your pantyhose, idiot. Walk into an airport in baggy pants with powdered expolosives in a leg bag which can slowly be dispersed as you walk (perhaps controlled by some sort of string control like POWs scattered excavated soil in The Great Escape). After walking around in the lobby it should soon be tracked to the security checkpoints and interfere with any current swab or automated detection methods.
RE: Monkeywrenching airport security
Last year I used a duffel bag as a carry-on that I occasionally use to transport firearms. I was pulled out of line at the checkpoint and they spent about 10 minutes swabbing the bag and examining it before I was allowed to board the plane. -Original Message- From: Sandy Sandfort [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Monkeywrenching airport security [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Monkeywrenching airport security Walk into an airport in baggy pants with powdered expolosives in a leg bag which can slowly be dispersed as you walk... Airport chemical sniffers apparently look for the signature of nitrogen compounds, not explosives, per se. I've often wondered how many weekend gardeners have gotten hassled and delayed because of trace amounts of ammonia-based fertilizers on their person and effects. If you plan to fly, be sure to wash your hands thoroughly before heading out for the airport if you have been shoot, gardening or house cleaning. S a n d y
RE: Monkeywrenching airport security
At 10:57 AM 11/17/01 -0800, Sandy Sandfort wrote: Airport chemical sniffers apparently look for the signature of nitrogen compounds, not explosives, per se. I've often wondered how many weekend gardeners have gotten hassled and delayed because of trace amounts of ammonia-based fertilizers on their person and effects. If you plan to fly, be sure to wash your hands thoroughly before heading out for the airport if you have been shoot, gardening or house cleaning. I've wondered about that too; airport sniffers must have encountered Miracle Gro and angina nitro during the early days, measuring a false alarm rate. Shooting is scary; you could contaminate your car driving back from the range, then contaminate your travel gear. The explosives expert in one of the older terror trial docs on cryptome says things suggesting that a few washes will remove traces. (And contaminate clothes washed with them.) I once checked out the screen on a sniffer, and they list nitrates as a category. I suppose having PETN (another category) detected on your laptop would be harder to explain :-)
RE: Monkeywrenching
I am no longer on the list. My Policeman Inside broke out. He won't let me be associated with silly salad talk, mission orientation, and Levi-Smithing. ~Aimee -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:02 PM To: Declan McCullagh; Aimee Farr Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Monkeywrenching -- On 16 Nov 2001, at 16:50, Aimee Farr wrote: I meant it in the sense that it sounds like they are talking about criminal defense lawyers. (i.e., make numerous references to the US Constitution, defenders, etc-etc.) Criminal defense has already been criminalized in hard to enforce laws such as the drug laws, with a various lawyers being busted on charges of providing competent and relevant defense for the accused. Government propaganda is already appearing to justify such punishment. While channel surfing I saw a fictional show about a bunch of lawyers who are in danger of being disbarred for taking drug traffickers as clients, and they are suffering orgasms of liberal guilt about how much they deserve punishment for accepting such terrible clients. Presumably it is still OK for the moment to defend rapists and murderers. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG bHgDORB62aC6HjcAremd3dhdRe6M9c83vYRND2Zh 45QXPQhYmXU9sf6mOHbk16N+w5/9n5dTxqbgu8Ml3
Re: Monkeywrenching
I am no longer on the list. My Policeman Inside broke out. He won't let me be associated with silly salad talk, mission orientation, and Levi-Smithing. You need to build an inner jail for your inner policeman! But to make sure that he has due process, you need an inner internal affairs department to look into his complaints! This is going to be complicated.
Re: Monkeywrenching airport security
On Saturday, November 17, 2001, at 05:41 PM, David Honig wrote: At 10:57 AM 11/17/01 -0800, Sandy Sandfort wrote: Airport chemical sniffers apparently look for the signature of nitrogen compounds, not explosives, per se. I've often wondered how many weekend gardeners have gotten hassled and delayed because of trace amounts of ammonia-based fertilizers on their person and effects. If you plan to fly, be sure to wash your hands thoroughly before heading out for the airport if you have been shoot, gardening or house cleaning. I've wondered about that too; airport sniffers must have encountered Miracle Gro and angina nitro during the early days, measuring a false alarm rate. Shooting is scary; you could contaminate your car driving back from the range, then contaminate your travel gear. The explosives expert in one of the older terror trial docs on cryptome says things suggesting that a few washes will remove traces. (And contaminate clothes washed with them.) I once checked out the screen on a sniffer, and they list nitrates as a category. I suppose having PETN (another category) detected on your laptop would be harder to explain :-) I don't see what the big concern is here. Just stand there and say nothing. They're going to go through the bags as they wish anyway. The nitrogen connection has been known for many years, too. I remember hearing that _marzipan_ candy tends to set off the detectors, something to do with the almonds and nitrates and all. Big deal. Just stand there and let them search. Using your range bag for carryone luggage is perfectly legal, providing you haven't left any shells inside, or any bore cleaning brushes which might be used as Assault Brushes. --Tim May Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering.-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001
Re: Monkeywrenching
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aimee wrote: I am no longer on the list. My Policeman Inside broke out. He won't let me be associated with silly salad talk, mission orientation, and Levi-Smithing. You need to build an inner jail for your inner policeman! But to make sure that he has due process, you need an inner internal affairs department to look into his complaints! Personally, I think you just need to buy your Inner Policeman an Inner Donut and calm down before charging off in a huff and leaving even less diversity of opinion around here. What was it you were saying about moderate voices on the list the other day? It's not as if anyone is likely to mistake your opinions for anyone else's. Oh well, to each his own. ~Faustine. *** The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms. - --William O. Douglas, Associate Justice, US Supreme Court -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBO/dIcfg5Tuca7bfvEQK7fACfa0uZPnt4vK4aPPZBuoEvLM9rkyMAoNJC BGIbgbumRjxcr+nEKxRcSaDQ =TiS9 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Monkeywrenching
I called the FBI yesterday; this is a real flyer. I'll send something Politechwards later on today about it. -Declan On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:00:50PM -0600, Aimee Farr wrote: A good example of monkeywrenching can be found at the article posted earlier, http://www.keepandbeararms.com/angel/articles/consterrorist.htm. This shows an apparently legitimate flyer from the Phoenix FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force telling people whom they should watch out for. It includes people who make numerous references to the US constitution, people who are 'defenders' of the US constitution against federal government and the UN, people who attempt to police the police and so on. Think the criminal defense bar is concerned? ~Aimee
RE: Monkeywrenching
[up-posted conversation] You are working too hard today. I meant it in the sense that it sounds like they are talking about criminal defense lawyers. (i.e., make numerous references to the US Constitution, defenders, etc-etc.) :P ~Aimee I called the FBI yesterday; this is a real flyer. I'll send something Politechwards later on today about it. -Declan On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:00:50PM -0600, Aimee Farr wrote: A good example of monkeywrenching can be found at the article posted earlier, http://www.keepandbeararms.com/angel/articles/consterrorist.htm. This shows an apparently legitimate flyer from the Phoenix FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force telling people whom they should watch out for. It includes people who make numerous references to the US constitution, people who are 'defenders' of the US constitution against federal government and the UN, people who attempt to police the police and so on. Think the criminal defense bar is concerned? ~Aimee
Re: Monkeywrenching
Second, training in such matters would be useless and counterproductive. There is no point in patriotic Americans learning to use weapons and explosives for the purpose of terrorism. Any attempt to use such tools would injure or kill people and lead to an even greater loss of our Fuck you, pig. The purpose of guns is to kill and hurt. People don't like getting killed and hurt. That's why guns work. As you know very well. Be careful. There are 40 million armed non-pigs on the continent. Look at the fate of Stasi members. I knew that there was a reason for not shutting down remailers. How else could TLAs post without being JBelled ?
