Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 01:03:05PM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: > So we not only have secret courts, we have secret appeals courts to > reverse secret court decisions the government doesn't like. I'd urge folks to read the redacted opinion, available here: http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/common/newsroom/02-001.pdf On the last page or so, there's a truly remarkable sentiment: Even without taking into account the President's inherent constitutional authority to conduct warrantless foreign intelligence surveillance, we think the procedures and government showings required under FISA, if they do not meet the minimum Fourth Amendment warrant standards, certainly come close. We, therefore, believe firmly, applying the balancing test drawn from Keith, that FISA as amended is constitutional because the surveillances it authorizes are reasonable. The judges are explicitly acknowledging that the FISA rules, as amended by USA Patriot, violate the Fourth Amendment -- but that's okay SINCE IT'S CLOSE ENOUGH FOR GOVERNMENT WORK, apparently. -Declan
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 03:04 PM, Mike Diehl wrote: On Monday 18 November 2002 04:03 pm, Eric Cordian wrote: Someone posted: WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A special, secretive appeals court on Monday said the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap suspected terrorism suspects under a law adopted by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Any chance that someone could post the pointer to this article? I missed it the first time. As with your last question, Google or Yahoo or any of the other search engines will immediately give you current articles. Google now even has a fine news search engine. This Ashcroft news conference, and links, is being reported on _all_ of the online news services I have seen, even without using a search. Why is it that people ask for instantly available information? (ObGoogleSearch: a familiar phenomenon) --Tim May "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -- Nietzsche
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Sunder wrote: > But you forget - the BATF agents were all beeped and informed to not > bother to come in to work that day, and instead met up elsewhere, suited > up so they could arrive just in time (a few minutes after the boom) to be > heroic. > > That indicates something, what exactly it indicates is left as an > excercise to the reader. > > So does the confiscation of surveillance video from several sources across > the street that was never shown as evidence (because supposedly it would > have shown that McVeigh had an accomplice - who was described as possibly > of Arab origin.) I remember clearly the search for man number 2, and it ended really mysteriously - the news media just stopped talking about him. I was in Chicago at the time, and the number of cops on bridges for the week after that was really amazing. Then no more searching. > Further, they claimed that it was a single bomb - the truck, but > eventually discovered incendiary devices inside the building. Further, > the way the building exploded showed that one of the interal columns that > broke could not have done so from a ryder truck parked outside the > building. > > The lone nut theory didn't work in this case. But the results are largely > the same. The death of many innocents, the loss of freedom for the rest, > the ratcheting up of terror. Shades of JFK and the grassy knoll Batman! There was a lot of comment about this from explosives experts. Don't forget the seismometer recordings that showed a second explosion 10 minutes later (I think, it might have been 1 minute, but definitly much later). They also halted the search for victims so the DEA could remove file cabinets. It sure seemed to me at the time that McVeigh was the fall guy for an inside job. And given the one report about CIA meeting OBL about 2 or 3 months before 01/9/11 one wonders if the big boys just needed something *bigger* to make sure they got total control. But it's more likely stupidity than malfesance. McVeigh was nut, and the BATF stored explosives under a day care center, McVeigh's bomb didn't distroy the building, it just set off the explosives that weren't supposed to be there. Doesn't explain man #2 tho So there's plenty of meat for conspiracy theory for a long time to come! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Monday 18 November 2002 04:03 pm, Eric Cordian wrote: > Someone posted: > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A special, secretive appeals court on Monday > > said the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to > > wiretap suspected terrorism suspects under a law adopted by Congress > > after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Any chance that someone could post the pointer to this article? I missed it the first time. TIA -- Mike Diehl PGP Encrypted E-mail preferred. Public Key via: http://dominion.dyndns.org/~mdiehl/mdiehl.asc
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
But you forget - the BATF agents were all beeped and informed to not bother to come in to work that day, and instead met up elsewhere, suited up so they could arrive just in time (a few minutes after the boom) to be heroic. That indicates something, what exactly it indicates is left as an excercise to the reader. So does the confiscation of surveillance video from several sources across the street that was never shown as evidence (because supposedly it would have shown that McVeigh had an accomplice - who was described as possibly of Arab origin.) Further, they claimed that it was a single bomb - the truck, but eventually discovered incendiary devices inside the building. Further, the way the building exploded showed that one of the interal columns that broke could not have done so from a ryder truck parked outside the building. The lone nut theory didn't work in this case. But the results are largely the same. The death of many innocents, the loss of freedom for the rest, the ratcheting up of terror. Shades of JFK and the grassy knoll Batman! --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Anonymous wrote: > Tim is absolutely right -- we need a new Timmy McVeigh everyday. The > people in that building were feds, the kids were fed kids. Unfortunate > for the kids, but so what? Nits turn into lice. How many kids died at > Waco?
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Anonymous wrote: > Tim is absolutely right -- we need a new Timmy McVeigh everyday. The > people in that building were feds, the kids were fed kids. Unfortunate > for the kids, but so what? Nits turn into lice. How many kids died at > Waco? Thanks for the troll. We really needed it here.
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
Quoting Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Third, there are good reasons why two of our list members have been > sentenced to long jail terms by Big Brother, why some have fled the > country, and why the Treasury Department's Criminal Investigation Unit > published my SS number and declared in documents that I am a suspected > criminal of some sort (yet to be determined in their secret court > proceedings). For the lazy: http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.1999.03.29-1999.04.04/msg6.html and for background on that see: http://www.antioffline.com/apol.html -- Keith Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- OpenPGP Key: 0x79269A12
