Re: USPO still trying to SPAM everyone
At 9:00 AM -0400 8/3/00, William H. Geiger III wrote: >In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/02/00 >at 02:26 PM, sunder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > >>At work, we've received several beat up packages delivered through UPS, >>etc. I suppose service is better in some states than in others... > >In all likelihood this is a symptom of having NewYorkers handeling >your packages than UPS in general. A good point. I just spent several days on the East Coast, and I am now really, really glad to be back on the West Coast. I'm sure there are fine communities back there, and bad ones out here. As I said, UPS has been courteous, swift, and I know my UPS delivery guy (when he delivered my FAL rifle I opened the box and we talked about it for a while). --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: USPO still trying to SPAM everyone
At 12:59 AM 8/1/00 -0400, Ray Dillinger wrote: >Try completely ignoring your paper mail sometime and see how >long it is before you're in trouble with the law for missing >a jury duty summons or a bill or some legal action or other. UDP, baby.
Re: USPO still trying to SPAM everyone
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/02/00 at 02:26 PM, sunder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >Here in NYC I routinely saw UPS guys tossing boxes back and forth to each >other, sometimes dropping them on the concrete. I'm never able to get >UPS to deliver anything at any convenient time, usually I'm left no >choice but to drive 15 blocks to their depo to pick up packages, and it's >only open 9:00-5:00pm exactly - working hours. >I expected a rather heavy package one day. After receiving a yellow slip >the previous day, I made sure I was home the entire day and within ear >shot of the doorbell. No UPS delivery, no ring. But a yellow slip >mysteriously showed up claiming they were there. Gee, I'll chalk that up >to lazy driver. >At work, we've received several beat up packages delivered through UPS, >etc. I suppose service is better in some states than in others... In all likelihood this is a symptom of having NewYorkers handeling your packages than UPS in general. -- --- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Data Security & Cryptology Consulting Programming, Networking, Analysis PGP for OS/2: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html E-Secure: http://www.openpgp.net/esecure.html ---
Re: USPO still trying to SPAM everyone
Tim May wrote: > > At 9:58 PM -0700 7/31/00, Ray Dillinger wrote: > > > >Try completely ignoring your paper mail sometime and see how > >long it is before you're in trouble with the law for missing > >a jury duty summons or a bill or some legal action or other. > > I was called _once_ for jury duty, in 1973, and once was on stand-by, > but was not called. > > As for legal papers, these have in all cases I can remember been > delivered by hand, as subpoenas cannot be mailed. Subpoenas, SFAIK, don't count if they're sent by regular mail. Congressional subpoenas can be sent by mail, but I'm not sure if it's certified or registered. And I'm not sure about the requirements for ordinary court subpoenas. However, there are other "must answer" documents. For instance, when my (then) wife filed for child custody, I was sent the summons to mediation by regular mail. If I hadn't received it and had missed the court date I presumably could have protested on grounds of non-service but I'd definitely have been fighting against a done deed at that point. > Service in person is why process servers are still employed, why > people sometimes avoid being served by avoiding potential process > servers, etc. In NY, summons can be served by a combination of (registered|certified) mail and physical delivery _to the last known address_. It's called "nail and mail". In general the process servers in my home county tried a couple of times to physically contact the servee or another adult at the last known address before they placed the notice on the door; the guy I talked to was a little vague on whether the repeated tries were required or simply CYA in case someone objected to the method of service. This doesn't address subpoenas, concerning which I know little. > Were I to face some legal "troubles" because of something allegedly > sent to me in ordinary mail, I'd claim to the court that I never saw > it, that it either was never delivered at all or that it was lost in > the morass of fliers for Safeway and Ralph's and Nordstrom's, > whatever. And not even in "Alice's Restaurant World" are people > jailed for failing to find a particular letter buried in a 2-inch > stack of junk mail received nearly every day. You're right that people would seldom if ever be jailed for not getting (or admitting to getting) the notice. They could expect a host of lesser problems, though. The most is similar to what I wrote above: missing a court date, getting a default judgement entered, and then having to fight twice as hard to show cause why that judgement should be overturned. Sure, there is often a notice sent out that such-and-such will be entered unless one of the parties objects, but this notice would presumably be sent out by the same method as the original (missed) notice. Also, I'm not sure that a claim that you didn't see the notice because it was obscured by junk mail would hold up. Probably up to the whim of the court. -- Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel 518-374-4720 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USPO still trying to SPAM everyone
Ray Dillinger wrote: > No one has yet died of spam, one case of an irate recipient > murdering a spammer notwithstanding. !!! Do you have any details? A URL would be perfect. I'd include a one- liner and the URL in my friendly warnings to annoying spammers. (Yes, that's redundant.) If they don't get the hint, well, I guess the gene pool needs cleaning. And I'm curious: Was the killer identified? If so, was he charged with murder, or given a medal for civic service? > Bear Hey, now, my main screen name is Goat. Is this some sort of plot to make cryptography seem warm and fuzzy? -- Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel 518-374-4720 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USPO still trying to SPAM everyone
On Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 10:50:12PM -0400, Steven Furlong wrote: > Technology is not needed. Once every American has access to an > internet connection, thanks to the benevolent government's phone > surcharge, and everyone has a permanent email address, thanks to our > wise government's far-seeing policies, our lords and masters can start > sending essential notices only to those addresses. Paper notices won't > be sent because they cost too many dollars which can instead be put > into scholarships for disadvantaged youth, and email addresses with > private ISPs won't be accepted for this service because the federal > government can't trust those addresses to be current. It might take a > few years before the subjects are required to check their USPO email > regularly, but they can be held responsible for the contents of the > mailbox immediately. Well, but: The biggest (I think) source of income for the USPO is not selling mailboxes or packages or personal letters. It's junk^H^H^H^Hbulk mail. This is why the USPO has always been reticent to do anything significant to help you cut down on all the useless crap you get in your mailbox. Junk mail is paid for on a delivery basis. (With the exception of refusing mail, which usually ends up thrown away) once it's in your post box you MUST process it. You can't just let it stay, you can't tell them not to deliver it (again, with few exceptions; read junkbusters for how things work). You don't need to read it or take it in your house, but it's essentially guranteed that you need to handle it. So the question is, how can the USPO charge for delivering junk email? The answer is, only if they have a reasonable probability the messages will be "delivered." This is a very different economic model from regular spam, I think. Why? Because we have many ways of identifying and deleting spam withOUT seeing it. It seems to me the solution is worse, not better, than Steven suggests. I anticipate a solution that forces you to experience the ads (sort of like the MPAA is trying to do with DVDs + the DMCA). Yes, you must check your USPO email regularly for citizen alerts (e.g., voter registration, driver license renewal, social security). Furthermore, you must use our mail client, which assures everyone that you are really you and you really read those messages. Today's messages in our mail client are sponsored by (No, you can't build a device that circumvents the software responsible for sending you those messages, under section 1201.) > The ID of this mailbox will of course be the SSN, because that's a > guaranteed-unique number which every subject is required to have > anyway. Or some sort of state ID (drivers license etc.). How long before the states will jump on the bandwagon? -- Greg
Re: USPO still trying to SPAM everyone
Anonymous wrote: > > Fuck, no traffic on cpunks except this ... > > >Actually, it is the U.S. Postal Service. Officials there are planning > >to offer people living at all 120 million of the nation's residential > >street addresses free e-mail addresses. It would link the e-mail and > > The stupidity of the author, ny.politics readers and George > is flabbergasting. Maybe George can be saved: > > - there is no technology known to man that can force user > to check the POP mailbox that he is not interested in. Technology is not needed. Once every American has access to an internet connection, thanks to the benevolent government's phone surcharge, and everyone has a permanent email address, thanks to our wise government's far-seeing policies, our lords and masters can start sending essential notices only to those addresses. Paper notices won't be sent because they cost too many dollars which can instead be put into scholarships for disadvantaged youth, and email addresses with private ISPs won't be accepted for this service because the federal government can't trust those addresses to be current. It might take a few years before the subjects are required to check their USPO email regularly, but they can be held responsible for the contents of the mailbox immediately. The ID of this mailbox will of course be the SSN, because that's a guaranteed-unique number which every subject is required to have anyway. -- Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel 518-374-4720 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
