crypto law survey questions
Eric Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : >Lots of media are running survey questions asking if >the US should ban strong cryptography. > >Here is a more honest survey: > > >1. Are you willing to ban strong cryptography so the FBI, CIA, NSA etc. >can listen in on potential terrorists, and jail Americans that use >strong cryptography? > >9. Terrorists do not always communicate digitally. In fact there are >rumors that Osama bin Laden communicates with his associates either by >sending verbal messages with trusted couriers from families that he knows, >or for longer distances, using paper messages sent via services like FedEx. >Do you think that banning strong crypto in America will slow bin Laden >down at all? > >Eric > Very nice. We in the choir agree. Now how are you going to get those in congress ( who prefer to be 99.9% fact-free ) to see it your way? You'd have better luck opening a restaurant called Porky's Kosher Pig Hut next door to a mosque in Kabul. Mike
Re: crypto law survey questions
On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 11:46:06AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > We in the choir agree. > > Now how are you going to get those in congress ( who prefer to be 99.9% > fact-free ) to see it your way? Probably not worth the effort. They'll do what they want, no matter what the crypto mavens say. I wonder what's going to be in the emergency anti-terrorism bill that Bush will send Congress on Wed or Thurs. Maybe not crypto restrictions, but the language will likely bear a close read. -Declan
Re: crypto law survey questions
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 05:40:27PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Is it true that Gregg is giving up? Has someone told him that his ATM, > > his browser and his garage door opener would be outlawed? > > Depends on whether you believe politicotalk or not. Gregg's comments > were heartfelt, IMHO. Sad that the only principles politicos seem to have > nowadays is the principle of limiting crypto, privacy. As usual, you miss the point, they're trying to save their jobs. Crypto is a means, not the end. -- The future, as always, belongs to the dreamers. Heinz Pagels The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: crypto law survey questions
-Original Message- I wonder what's going to be in the emergency anti-terrorism bill that Bush will send Congress on Wed or Thurs. Maybe not crypto restrictions, but the language will likely bear a close read. -Declan I wonder about enforcement as well. Crypto was outlawed in WWII but I don't think too many people served time for using it. It was also not very widespread. Here you've got a popular technology who's suppreswsion nwill be more like Vice Squad work. Synbolic crackdowns without a serious expectation of success. Also crypto bans are meaningless without anonymity bans and anonymity bans haven't been too successful in court. And even with court support, anonymity bans are even harder to enforce than crypto bans. Also crypto bans are really *cypher* bans. Codes are not covered. Ubiquitous comms make code comms easier than ever. "East Wind, Rain". DCF
Re: crypto law survey questions
Tim May writes: > Q: "Do you believe people should be arrrested, tried, and jailed for > writing in some form that narcs and cops cannot read? Do you believe > whispering should be made a felony? > > Q: If you answered "yes," would you be willing to take a bullet from > citizens who don't agree? Will you volunteer to work in an office > building that may be terminated by extreme prejudice by patriots? > > Q: Do you understand that by repressing civil liberties, you have earned > killing? These are good points, but they don't go far enough. It is time for everyone to adopt Tim May's policy that those who disagree on political matters deserve to be killed. Imagine the simplification of political life which would result. What if the Founding Fathers had such policies? History would be much more interesting for students to study. "I declare that the legislature should have one house!" "No, I claim that it should have two houses!" "Fiend!" "Scoundrel!" (FFs whip out muskets and shoot each other.) We could eliminate voting altogether. Instead everyone would get together in a large arena. People favoring the various positions would gather into groups, then on a signal each person would attempt to shoot and kill all those in the other groups. Whichever group was most numerous would have some survivors left standing who would go out and try to keep society running. This is the Promised Land to which Tim May offers to lead us. Government by bloodshed. A democracy of death. One wonders how long Tim May himself would last in such a society? It wouldn't take much of his arrogant blustering before someone decided that he had "earned killing". He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.
Re: crypto law survey questions
Jim Choate wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 05:40:27PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Is it true that Gregg is giving up? Has someone told him that his ATM, > > > his browser and his garage door opener would be outlawed? > > > > Depends on whether you believe politicotalk or not. Gregg's comments > > were heartfelt, IMHO. Sad that the only principles politicos seem to have > > nowadays is the principle of limiting crypto, privacy. > > As usual, you miss the point, they're trying to save their jobs. Crypto is > a means, not the end. > Hardly. The symbolic gesture of proposing legislation can serve a political purpose but do you disagree that there are those who consider it a desirable end? And who knows the club membership status of each player? Mike
Re: crypto law survey questions
On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 05:40:27PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is it true that Gregg is giving up? Has someone told him that his ATM, > his browser and his garage door opener would be outlawed? Depends on whether you believe politicotalk or not. Gregg's comments were heartfelt, IMHO. Sad that the only principles politicos seem to have nowadays is the principle of limiting crypto, privacy. > The talk of crypto regs came from more corners than just Gregg's. Why > would the interest pass so quickly? Is it because they have faith in > MSWindows, Carnivore and keyboard loggers? > > It will probably surface again soon. Maybe. Then again, this would have been the time to do it, in this bill. The fine print will bear reading. Also, keep an eye out for Sen. Kyl, who complained about crypto last week. -Declan
Re: crypto law survey questions
On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 01:00:48PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Send it when you find it. Gotcha. Also I posted a transcript of the Ashcroft-Mueller press conf on the bill at politechbot.com. -Declan
Re: crypto law survey questions
I managed to get an outline of the emergency anti-terrorism bill. Wiretap, FISA, immigration, court procedure, etc. But no encryption restrictions listed. -Declan On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 01:00:48PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > I wonder what's going to be in the emergency anti-terrorism bill that > > Bush will send Congress on Wed or Thurs. Maybe not crypto restrictions, > > but the language will likely bear a close read. > > > Send it when you find it. > > > -Declan
Re: crypto law survey questions
Declan McCullagh wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 11:46:06AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > We in the choir agree. > > > > Now how are you going to get those in congress ( who prefer to be 99.9% > > fact-free ) to see it your way? > > Probably not worth the effort. They'll do what they want, no matter > what the crypto mavens say. > > I wonder what's going to be in the emergency anti-terrorism bill that > Bush will send Congress on Wed or Thurs. Maybe not crypto restrictions, > but the language will likely bear a close read. > Send it when you find it. > -Declan
Re: crypto law survey questions
Declan McCullagh wrote: > > I managed to get an outline of the emergency anti-terrorism bill. > Wiretap, FISA, immigration, court procedure, etc. > > But no encryption restrictions listed. > > -Declan > Is it true that Gregg is giving up? Has someone told him that his ATM, his browser and his garage door opener would be outlawed? The talk of crypto regs came from more corners than just Gregg's. Why would the interest pass so quickly? Is it because they have faith in MSWindows, Carnivore and keyboard loggers? It will probably surface again soon. Mike
Re: crypto law survey questions
Q: "Do you believe people should be arrrested, tried, and jailed for writing in some form that narcs and cops cannot read? Do you believe whispering should be made a felony? Q: If you answered "yes," would you be willing to take a bullet from citizens who don't agree? Will you volunteer to work in an office building that may be terminated by extreme prejudice by patriots? Q: Do you understand that by repressing civil liberties, you have earned killing? --Tim May
