Re: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! (fwd)
Ah, thanks for the background. I'd be happy to publicize the SPLC's silliness. (See: http://www.politechbot.com/p-03500.html) But I haven't seen any verifiable evidence (a URL, news story) saying that MFN was listed as a hate group. Can you either point me to such a reference or write a summary that I can distribute? Thanks, Declan On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 08:04:48PM -0600, Alif The Terrible wrote: > I suppose a little background would help :-) > > Check out: http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/secpubs/computer.pdf , page 40. > When this report was brought to my attention in late Q4 2000, it prompted a > bunch of web searches to see what "companion listings" might have been > generated: SPLC was one such listing. > > Today I was telling someone the [bizarre] story of how MFN got listed, and > when I went to the SPLC site for more giggles, we were gone :-( > > Considering the fraud that is SPLC, I was genuinely disappointed at being > removed from their list of hate groups, and I genuninely want to be > reinstated. I am seriously pursuing the reinstatement email campaign. > > -- > Yours, > > J.A. Terranson > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure." > > > > > On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:25:40 -0500 > > From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! (fwd) > > > > Huh? I don't get it. I can believe that the SPLC is silly/reactionary > > enough to list something that innocuous, but any such listing does > > not appear in archive.org's history or google's cache. > > > > -Declan > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 02:52:33PM -0600, Alif The Terrible wrote: > > > -- Forwarded message -- > > > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:50:17 -0600 (CST) > > > From: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! > > > > > > > > > It is with sadness and deep concern that I must report the falling from grace > > > of Missouri FreeNet from the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Hate > > > Groups (http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/state.jsp?state_id=26). > > > > > > In an attempt to recify this matter, and to restore MFN to it's rightful > > > place among the Hate Groups of America (tm), I have taken the liberty of > > > initiating an email writing campaign asking for this listing to be restored. > > > > > > Please help! Fill out the form at http://www.tolerance.org/about/contact.jsp > > > and demand that Missouri FreeNet be restored to the SPLC/Tolerance.org list > > > of known hate groups. Our reputation depends on your help in this most > > > critical of moments... > > > > > > -- > > > Yours, > > > J.A. Terranson > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they > > > should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: > > > Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of > > > unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in > > > the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and > > > elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire > > > populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... > > > This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States > > > as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. > > > > > > The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, > > > associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of > > > those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the > > > first place... > > >
Re: Extradition, Snatching,and the Danger of Traveling to Other Countries
-- On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Sarad AV wrote: > Firstly,they cannot be exterminated.There is no proof of > identity as we may have in our countries and no body will ask > for it either,since most don't have one. The Taliban would > have cut their beard and hair and mixed up with civilian > population,while troops can go searching for orthodox > civilians with a taliban look,making it hard to hunt them > down.Once/if the international troops leave afghan,there are > over hundred factions,who will keep fighting among themselves > for 'land' and the taliban will be back. There have always been a hundred factions quarreling over land in Afganistan. The level of violence was tolerable to Afghans and outsiders. What went wrong with the Taliban is that one faction, with outside aid from international islamicists, managed to actually get most of the land. US policy was to restore the status quo ante in Afghanistan, put things back the way they were before the Soviet invasion. It seems to have succeeded well enough, and there is no reason to suppose it will be any less stable than it was. The future of Afghanistan will probably be no less violent than it was before the Soviet invasion, but no more violent that it was before the Soviet invasion. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG k2IMyoZuE05D4VVX0FkW1hRQSzvJRDmLhlhwppHX 4+V+mECM7CjCVvLuL1WVl7q6w8saodTqAtyPLDY7v
Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere
On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Jim Choate wrote: > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: > > > From the article: > > "The court dismissed suggestions the Internet was different from other > > broadcasters, who could decide how far their signal was to be transmitted." > > > > This is totally bogus thinking. The Internet is not broadcast medium. > > Yes, it is. Every site that emits a packet broadcasts it onto the network. > One can even make a comparison between 'frequency & modulation' with 'IP & > service'. > > > Information from Web sites must be requested, the equivalent of ordering a > > book or newspaper, At the IP level, sending an IP packet to a specific address is no more a broadcast than sending a piece of mail through the postal service. ** The Center for Civic Networking PO Box 600618 Miles R. Fidelman, President & Newtonville, MA 02460-0006 Director, Municipal Telecommunications Strategies Program 617-558-3698 fax: 617-630-8946 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://civic.net/ccn.html Information Infrastructure: Public Spaces for the 21st Century Let's Start With: Internet Wall-Plugs Everywhere Say It Often, Say It Loud: "I Want My Internet!" **
Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere
Jim Choate wrote: > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: >> From the article: >> "The court dismissed suggestions the Internet was different from >> other broadcasters, who could decide how far their signal was to be >> transmitted." >> This is totally bogus thinking. The Internet is not broadcast medium. > Yes, it is. Every site that emits a packet broadcasts it onto the > network. One can even make a comparison between 'frequency & > modulation' with 'IP & service'. no, it isn't. By that argument, you could say that a hard disk is a broadcast medium - because the data is there and you can just "tune" to any track and sector and pull back the information - or a library is a broadcast medium because you can retrieve books by going there and locating them by section and ISBN number Webcast is marginally a broadcast medium - because ISPs can aggregate multiple requests into a single datastream - but the internet is largely search-and-retrieve; it would be surprising to find a webserver sending data to your isp anyhow "just in case you request it"
Re: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! (fwd)
I suppose a little background would help :-) Check out: http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/secpubs/computer.pdf , page 40. When this report was brought to my attention in late Q4 2000, it prompted a bunch of web searches to see what "companion listings" might have been generated: SPLC was one such listing. Today I was telling someone the [bizarre] story of how MFN got listed, and when I went to the SPLC site for more giggles, we were gone :-( Considering the fraud that is SPLC, I was genuinely disappointed at being removed from their list of hate groups, and I genuninely want to be reinstated. I am seriously pursuing the reinstatement email campaign. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure." On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:25:40 -0500 > From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! (fwd) > > Huh? I don't get it. I can believe that the SPLC is silly/reactionary > enough to list something that innocuous, but any such listing does > not appear in archive.org's history or google's cache. > > -Declan > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 02:52:33PM -0600, Alif The Terrible wrote: > > -- Forwarded message -- > > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:50:17 -0600 (CST) > > From: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! > > > > > > It is with sadness and deep concern that I must report the falling from grace > > of Missouri FreeNet from the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Hate > > Groups (http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/state.jsp?state_id=26). > > > > In an attempt to recify this matter, and to restore MFN to it's rightful > > place among the Hate Groups of America (tm), I have taken the liberty of > > initiating an email writing campaign asking for this listing to be restored. > > > > Please help! Fill out the form at http://www.tolerance.org/about/contact.jsp > > and demand that Missouri FreeNet be restored to the SPLC/Tolerance.org list > > of known hate groups. Our reputation depends on your help in this most > > critical of moments... > > > > -- > > Yours, > > J.A. Terranson > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they > > should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: > > Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of > > unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in > > the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and > > elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire > > populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... > > This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States > > as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. > > > > The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, > > associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of > > those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the > > first place... > > >
Re: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! (fwd)
On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:25:40 -0500, Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Huh? I don't get it. I can believe that the SPLC is silly/reactionary
> enough to list something that innocuous, but any such listing does
> not appear in archive.org's history or google's cache.
>
> -Declan
Oh, Declan, it's not all that hard to get on SPLC's list. They've done a hit piece in
_Klanwatch_ on Objectivists! While I might agree that many objectivists are
irritating ("Check your premises!" My premises are just fine, thank you!), going
after them was almost as silly as going after Missouri FreeNet.
They've gone after FIJA, and even tried--using a front group--to discredit the ISIL
World Conference back in 1996, calling these libertarians ultra-right-wing extremists,
racists and violent militia sympathizers. (Is that "violent militia" sympathizers or
violent "militia sympathizers," I wonder?)
On the other hand, maybe it's a good idea to get as many relatively innocuous
organizations on the SPLC's list as possible, if only to discredit it. Make a few up
just to keep SPLC busy. Be sure to put words like "liberty" and "free" in the name.
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 02:52:33PM -0600, Alif The Terrible wrote:
> > -- Forwarded message --
> > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:50:17 -0600 (CST)
> > From: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group!
> >
> >
> > It is with sadness and deep concern that I must report the falling from grace
> > of Missouri FreeNet from the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Hate
> > Groups (http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/state.jsp?state_id=26).
> >
> > In an attempt to recify this matter, and to restore MFN to it's rightful
> > place among the Hate Groups of America (tm), I have taken the liberty of
> > initiating an email writing campaign asking for this listing to be restored.
> >
> > Please help! Fill out the form at http://www.tolerance.org/about/contact.jsp
> > and demand that Missouri FreeNet be restored to the SPLC/Tolerance.org list
> > of known hate groups. Our reputation depends on your help in this most
> > critical of moments...
> >
> > --
> > Yours,
> > J.A. Terranson
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
> > should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
> > Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
> > unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
> > the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and
> > elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
> > populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
> > This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
> > as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
> >
> > The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
> > associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
> > those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
> > first place...
> >
>
Re: thug-proof serving
At 11:54 PM 12/15/2002 +, Vayu Anonymous Remailer wrote: I'd like to make an experiment, to post bunch of crypto files to Gnutella and see how well it scales and spreads. If there is some interval T between connecting to gnutella network and shared files being available via search to 90% of connected machines, then it takes only 4 volunteers that are willing to stay connected for T+6 hrs per day to make archives available. Thoughts ? Suggest you also post them to Kazaa. There are many more people using it and any interference is more likely to be noted. steve "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship." --Alexander Fraser Tyler
Re: Extradition, Snatching, and the Danger of Traveling to Other Countries
On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Sarad AV wrote: > Firstly,they cannot be exterminated.There is no proof > of identity as we may have in our countries and no > body will ask for it either,since most don't have one. > The Taliban would have cut their beard and hair and > mixed up with civilian population,while troops can go > searching for orthodox civilians with a taliban > look,making it hard to hunt them down.Once/if the > international troops leave afghan,there are over > hundred factions,who will keep fighting among > themselves for 'land' and the taliban will be back. I think that's 100% correct. The US's only chance is to build real roads, real schools and real hospitals that actually help the majority of people. Then the talib's (as they called themselves in the 1800's) will have far less clout to deal with. As it is now, they can point to all the 3 year olds we kill and create more soldiers with suicidal ability. The US government is a pack of morons. Until the majority of people actually figures that out, they'll pretty much have free reign to continue their amazing stupidity. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! (fwd)
Huh? I don't get it. I can believe that the SPLC is silly/reactionary enough to list something that innocuous, but any such listing does not appear in archive.org's history or google's cache. -Declan On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 02:52:33PM -0600, Alif The Terrible wrote: > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:50:17 -0600 (CST) > From: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! > > > It is with sadness and deep concern that I must report the falling from grace > of Missouri FreeNet from the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Hate > Groups (http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/state.jsp?state_id=26). > > In an attempt to recify this matter, and to restore MFN to it's rightful > place among the Hate Groups of America (tm), I have taken the liberty of > initiating an email writing campaign asking for this listing to be restored. > > Please help! Fill out the form at http://www.tolerance.org/about/contact.jsp > and demand that Missouri FreeNet be restored to the SPLC/Tolerance.org list > of known hate groups. Our reputation depends on your help in this most > critical of moments... > > -- > Yours, > J.A. Terranson > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they > should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: > Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of > unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in > the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and > elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire > populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... > This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States > as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. > > The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, > associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of > those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the > first place... >
Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:50:17 -0600 (CST) From: Alif The Terrible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please help: MFN is no longer listed as a Hate Group! It is with sadness and deep concern that I must report the falling from grace of Missouri FreeNet from the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Hate Groups (http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/state.jsp?state_id=26). In an attempt to recify this matter, and to restore MFN to it's rightful place among the Hate Groups of America (tm), I have taken the liberty of initiating an email writing campaign asking for this listing to be restored. Please help! Fill out the form at http://www.tolerance.org/about/contact.jsp and demand that Missouri FreeNet be restored to the SPLC/Tolerance.org list of known hate groups. Our reputation depends on your help in this most critical of moments... -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
Re: EPIC-Politech linked to a right wing racist gun nut and crypto fascist.
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: > Radicalized it is and so far right it's becoming amusing.Some thoughts on Amusing certainly. But I'd say each individual that posts on this list is totally orthogonal to all the others. The concepts of 1 dimensional politics simply don't apply. If we could get politicians to learn math, we'd be able to use it as a metaphore. I'm not going to worry about that ever happening :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Top Clinton-crats rewarded themselves with dubious cash bonuses
Despite prohibition, Clinton appointees got bonuses By Tanya N. Ballard Despite a presidential directive designed to keep mid- and high-level political appointees from getting cash bonuses, some appointees in the Clinton administration did receive such bonuses in the last year of the administration. In a September 2001 report, "Personnel Practices: Monetary Awards Provided to Political Appointees" (01-1081R), the General Accounting Office found that at least 50 political appointees at the GS-13 to GS-15 pay levels and in the Senior Executive Service received cash awards for performance, or for a special act or service between September 1999 and May 2000. A recent move by the Bush administration to reinstate cash bonuses for political appointees has been criticized by some congressional leaders. Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., and House Minority Leader-elect Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., last week called on the White House to rescind its policy. Full story: http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1202/121302t1.htm
Re: Extradition, Snatching, and the Danger of Traveling to Other Countries
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, John Kelsey wrote: > At 09:15 AM 12/13/02 -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: > ... > [Discussion of the lack of pro-freedom candidates.] > > >There are more choices than that. It just takes a while for the > >masses to figure that out. When there are no choices, then we > >can fight with weapons. For now, words are sufficient. > > The thing that's being missed here is that, if elections can be won by > running on a pro-freedom slate, politicians will be found to do that. Note > that guns are still legal in the US, despite the fact that armed private > citizens are apparently *very* unpopular with the decisionmaking elite in > the US. (This makes sense, too. My risks of being shot by anyone are > quite low, as I live in a middle-class neighborhood and take reasonable > precautions. But if you're a politician or public figure, you're much more > likely to be a target, and much more likely to be able to hire an off-duty > cop or other carefully-screened person to carry a gun and defend you.) When was the last time in these here Untied Status that a political figure was shot for political reasons? While it is certainly arguable that there have been plenty of inter-party assasinations, and despite the vehement protestations to the contrary, it "appears" that the empirical evidence suggests that JFK died as a result of political power plays. McKinley was killed by a whack job at the behest of William Hearst (some liberty taken there with the facts) Garfield was also shot by a serious whacko. Lincoln alone seems to stand as the only political marytr. When the likes of Diane Feinstein and that ilk whimper and cringe at the thought of an armed populace and arm themselves while depriving their constituents of their given rights while retaining those rights for themselves, (Feinstein has a concealed carry permit, but will not grant one) One must question exactly what these "leaders" have in mind. History has shown them (the powerful) as being in no danger from the general population, and whack jobs don't follow the rules. Political assasination by populists in this country? Hardly. Political kidnapping? Nope. Even on a local level, when has a corrupt lethally violent power crazed venal sherrif or top level cop (they certainly exist and have existed) ever really been in fear of a public uprising? When has such an uprising ever happened? The coal field wars of West Virginia back in the 20s started to look like this, and were crushed by the US military. The Bonus Army incident is still rather controversial as to what exactly happened. If any political figure is worried about being assasinated by their constituents, I'd really like to hear why. Where are the teeth to these threats?
Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: > From the article: > "The court dismissed suggestions the Internet was different from other > broadcasters, who could decide how far their signal was to be transmitted." > > This is totally bogus thinking. The Internet is not broadcast medium. Yes, it is. Every site that emits a packet broadcasts it onto the network. One can even make a comparison between 'frequency & modulation' with 'IP & service'. > Information from Web sites must be requested, the equivalent of ordering a > book or newspaper, Or tuning your browser to the 'frequecy' of the web server. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
