Re: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 12:06:02PM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: > > It's easier to just say Allah is on his side and this is proof :-) Well? Even if they could *prove* total accident, the serendipity of the whole shows the hand of Allah -- Eve of war, Israeli colonel who bombed the Iraqi nuke plant, etc. > Most people recognize accidents, and the connection between takeoff > and missing tiles is too obvious to dismiss as *the* primary cause. > Whether it's true or not remains to be seen. > The biggest question there is why didn't they inspect it? Seems very bizarre, since that's what they did in the past. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation
>Has anyone run their psychosocial simulators on what happens when Osama >claims responsibility? Would he try this? What numbers do you get for >the US pop's reaction? According to a friend from Ft.Meade, the Oyster (a massive parallel machine) is now at point 96, which means that it can emulate 96% of US population with accuracy > 0.9 Current results indicate that in the case of osamming the shuttle there will be no change in those 42% who oppose the war, only a slight improvement of fervor in the 37% of those who approve, and gaining some 3% of the undecided. Moving from 37% to 40% is usually not considered worthwhile, especially since gullibility is already receding, and there is a 40% risk for the opposite conversion in 4% of the undecided.
Re: Say goodbye to the ISS
> I was shocked to learn Saturday that NASA had not a mechanism to adequately > inspect the exterior of the shuttles for damage before the return to > earth. The reasons given seem to imply that NASA's ability for EVAs was > very limited and did not generally include on most flight the possibility > of such examinations. Further there was no effective ground or ISS-based > observation method either. Weird. I recall when the shuttles first began flying, reading about how the bottom of at least some the ships (certainly the first) were being examined for damage remotely, by telescope from the ground. Further, I distinctly recall reading an article that described, and I believe had one or more photos of, a tile repair kit for use in space. What happened to all of these things, I wonder? I must admit it also seems very strange that the shuttle couldn't have been examined while docked to the ISS. By coincidence, a tube train in London (where I live) jumped the track last week and tore up a station, when one of its traction motors dropped onto the rails. Thanks to that, the major east-west tube line has been out of service for days, causing travel chaos. Apparent failure thanks to deferred maintenance, by way of ill-advised cost cuts -- twice in one week, seemingly.
Re: checking weirdness
Huh, so you're subbed to minder.net? And there's never been any problem with group replies to your posts. So that blows that theory. On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 11:52:27AM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > So what do we get here > > > > -- > > Harmon Seaver > > CyberShamanix > > http://www.cybershamanix.com -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums
Eugen Leitl wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > > I don't know how it works in the US, but railroads are both comfortable > > and pretty reliable in Europe. > > A bit too expensive, especially in Germany. I also like being able to work > on the train -- given that here cities are only a few kilotons apart and > ICEs are pretty speedy flying can take longer. > > Otherwise I agree, bahning beyond 5-6 h starts to become tedious. ICE trains bloody good. Returning from a holiday once I went from my hotel in Berlin to my local pub, 50m from front door, in London, by train, in 12 hours. The first half of the journey, ICE to Koln, was only about a quarter of the total time. Koln to Brussel was slw but I got to see some beautiful scenery. Then Eurostar - fast on mainland, semi-fast in Britain. When the Channel Tunnel Rail link is finished (15 years late - pah - the only reason British government agreed to build tunnel in first place was French said they would pay for, & won, all of it, & Thatcher might have been a free marketeer but she was a nationalist first and was shamed into agreeing - same as the USA is going to stay in manned spaceflight because of China) & when fast link to Koln complete (maybe already?) the trip would be perhaps 8 or 9 hours. OK. flight is maybe 2 hours. But it would have taken half an hour to get to Berlin airport, for international flight they'd want you in an hour early, planes are even worse timekeepers than trains, and it would take me an hour to get out of the airport at the other end with baggage checks & customs & passports, then 2 hours to get home from Heathrow, or just over an hour from Gatwick. And so *much* less comfortable than train. And you have to book - train you just turn up and walk on. But really I like the ICE train for the same reason I like rockets and big buildings and bridges with cables in funny places and large shiny objects in general GOSH! WOW!
Re: Self-destruct in SZ-4?
At 09:09 AM 2/3/03 -0800, Tim May wrote: >Second, I would do the self-destruct with accelerometers: if several >accelerations are felt, detonate. 1. Modern munitions arm this way. If you are an artillery shell and you've been told to arm, and then felt 10s of Gs along one axis and a lot of rotation around that axis, you've probably been fired and can 'safely' explode when you hit something. 2. Why arm a satellite to do this is clear: During launch the rocket could screw up and dump your Top Sekrit satellite into the drink where Mr. Not-so-Friendly Submarine picks it up. It doesn't even violate a treaty if you can't use the satellite offensively (no glide next to a target satellite and go boom). And everyone puts a self-destruct charge in the launch vehicle anyway. Stressful jobs, RSO.
Re: James Watson: Everyone should be DNA-fingerprinted
On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > - > JW is too old and needs to be lysed. How about lsd'd? Then he won't know the difference between "real" and his head :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
James Watson: Everyone should be DNA-fingerprinted
Everybody in Europe and the US should have their genetic fingerprints entered into an international database to enable law enforcement agencies to fight crime and terrorism in an unstable world, according to James Watson, the co-discoverer of the DNA double helix. In an exclusive interview with The Independent to mark the 50th anniversary of his discovery, the scientist said the risks posed by terrorists and organised criminals now outweighed the possible objections on civil liberties grounds to a DNA database. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_medical/story.jsp?story=375107 - JW is too old and needs to be lysed.
Re: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation
On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > I heard that at the beginning of the program, NASA estimated 1 bang > in about 75 flights. The Palestine meteor shower was flight > 130-something > and was bang #2. Not to mention that it's 10 years past retirement. Not too bad, but not so good compared to an airplane. > ... > BTW, two birds with one stone: Israeli & Indian. > > Has anyone run their psychosocial simulators on what happens when Osama > claims responsibility? Would he try this? What numbers do you get for > the US pop's reaction? It's easier to just say Allah is on his side and this is proof :-) Most people recognize accidents, and the connection between takeoff and missing tiles is too obvious to dismiss as *the* primary cause. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen. > [SCITECHCOMM] There is a former NASA engineer on one of the tube > stations trying > to explain tech, but he is doing a poor job and unfortunately > reinforcing > a certain notion of engineers as monotone speakers incapable of > relating tech to common experiences. He picked at a tile with his > fingernail on camera, which is good, but Feynman he is not. I only saw him once. He looked like Dilbert, so he'll be exactly what every one expects. Let's face it, TV is about stereotypes, and he fits the bill. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: Shuttle Diplomacy
Thomas Shaddack wrote: > I just hope they won't mothball the ISS... Not if the scheduled Chinese manned launch goes ahead.
Re: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana?
Tyler Durden wrote: > And then there's the PERSISTENT rumors of him actually taking an accidental > DEA bust in a Florida airport after landing a fresh new cargo. Supposedly > this was a bit of a snafu and they had to let him go on the hush-hush...(And > I keep hearing there's video of that bust.) Oh, PERSISTENT rumours eh? So they must be true. The TRANSIENT sort are just a pack of lies.
Re: mail weirdness
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 10:23:58AM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > At 10:19 AM 02/03/2003 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > Looking at this more, I think it's two separate problems. I don't get the > >"recipient list suppressed" or whatever it is from Declan's posts, it just > >appears that something is wrong with the header, and it's probably > >something > >minder.net is doing and I haven't done a group reply to anyone else > >posting thru > >minder.net. But with Steve's, I get the same thing Tim got. What list is > >Steve > >posting thru? > > Do you mean that Steve's posts always do this to you? > I've only seen one like that, and I assumed that Steve had simply > Bcc:d the Cypherpunks list and some other lists on that posting. I've seen a number of posts from Steve that have the "list suppressed" but I don't think it was always that way, maybe the last few months? And not sure if they all do it or not. > > Declan's recent mail has been sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], > so it's possible that if you're reading it on minder.net, > there's something in there that looks weird to you. > But it all looks normal here. Nope, I'm subbed to lne.com. Did you try doing a group reply on Declan's? And if he isn't on minder.net, that's even weirder. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits
At 06:18 PM 2/3/03 +0100, Thomas Shaddack wrote: >> ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched >> some component which made them slightly ill. > >Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them pretty >sick... Yeah, first thing some people will do with space debris on their lawn is eat it. (Well, *some* will, but that's how evolution works..) Berylliosis is mostly from *inhaled* Be dust. You can touch the metal. - Smell that, son? Nothing else in the world smells like that I love the smell of hydrazine in the morning It smells like incompetence.
Re: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums
Steve Mynott wrote: > In the UK at least railway stations tend to have been built in the ugly > parts of towns for good reason -- simply because land is a lot cheaper in > the low rent parts of town. > > Also railways stations and the associated cheap hotels with a large > transient population tend to attract undesirables such as drug dealers, > muggers and hookers and the sort of thing which pushs the value of your > house down and nice middle class people don't want on their doorstep. > > The people in richer areas tend to have more political clout and more > effectively oppose development of this sort. Actually, in most places in UK, the railways precede the development of the town. So the industry & cheap areas follow rail, rather than vice versa. What you say is often true about new road building though. Everyone wants big roads a couple of miles away - no-one wants them on their doorstep. That's how Labour took over London in the 1970s - the old Tory GLC committed political suicide by road-building. Roads do not make votes. Of course, what /should/ happen is that the people who need the roads pay the people whose towns they go through...
Re: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums
Bill Stewart wrote: > Tim commented about railroad stations being in the ugly parts of town. > That's driven by several things - decay of the inner cities, > as cars and commuter trains have let businesses move out to suburbs, > and also the difference between railroad stations that were > built for passengers (New York's Grand Central, Washington's Union Station) > and railroad stations that were built for freight, where passengers > are an afterthought (much of the Midwest has train stations surrounded > by warehouses and grain silos, not houses or shops). That's an important point. Railway systems are bistable - they want to be either all-passenger or all-freight. They have completely different requirements. Freight moves slowly, but takes up a lot of space. Also it isn't amenable to timetables. Passenger trains move fast and need timetabling. Passenger trains, especially in urban areas, go for cheaper trains & more expensive infrastructure - better rails for a smooth ride, electrification. Goods trains are much more likely to slam big diesels on and move over crappy old rails. Different economics. They tend to exclude each other. Rail systems dominated by goods people, like mast of US, see passenger trains as a sort of flashy parasite, denying them use of their network at irritating times. And vice versa. One of the reasons that the UK railways are having a harder time upgrading these days than the French or German is that they tried to share tracks. The railway beside my house has to pass about 20 passenger trains an hour each way. When some huge long thing hauling 50 trucks of gravel comes along, it gets in the way.
Re: punk and free markets
> Gold star. Velvet Underground is definitely ground zero for Punk to my ears, > but with this recent set of pre-Velvets minimalist releases (eg, Dream > Theater, with LaMount Young, John Cale--who helped start the band I was in, > and others), the stage was somewhat set. Yeah, yeah, yeah; I loved the Velvets too - but the stuff we Brits called "punk" in 1976 was quite unlike that, except for being a bit raucous. It was more derived from a kind of mutated pub-rock mated with football chants, with undertones of Hawkwind-like bass riffs, played by semi-competent nerds. NY invented punk first. Then London invented something else and stole the name. So sue us.
Re: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana?
Ken Brown wrote... "Oh, PERSISTENT rumours eh? So they must be true. The TRANSIENT sort are just a pack of lies." No, not saying that. But in Bush's case there's a long enough trail of circumstatial evidence to merit some investigation.e AND, totally unfounded rumors tend to go away. Rumors that don't go away seem to have some kind of validity to them on average underneath. And in this particular case, given the larger-scale goings on with the CIA, Drug running and Daddy Bush, this does not seem wildly improbable. (I see from the email you're "across the pond", so perhaps you are unaware of the fact that Daddy Bush was head of the CIA in the 70s? And then there was the drugs-for-guns part of Iran Contra, and then Bush Jr while Governer having a pilot's license and regularly flying the plane that had previously moved the drugs for Iran Contra, and the San Jose Mercury Chronicle expose discussing the moving of drugs by the CIA in the 80s and 90s into minority-inhabited inner cities...after these fairly undisputed facts, hearing that Bush Jr took a patriotic bust running drugs into the US doesn't seem even too shocking.) From: Ken Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana? Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:07:52 + Tyler Durden wrote: > And then there's the PERSISTENT rumors of him actually taking an accidental > DEA bust in a Florida airport after landing a fresh new cargo. Supposedly > this was a bit of a snafu and they had to let him go on the hush-hush...(And > I keep hearing there's video of that bust.) Oh, PERSISTENT rumours eh? So they must be true. The TRANSIENT sort are just a pack of lies. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: mail weirdness
At 10:19 AM 02/03/2003 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: Looking at this more, I think it's two separate problems. I don't get the "recipient list suppressed" or whatever it is from Declan's posts, it just appears that something is wrong with the header, and it's probably something minder.net is doing and I haven't done a group reply to anyone else posting thru minder.net. But with Steve's, I get the same thing Tim got. What list is Steve posting thru? Do you mean that Steve's posts always do this to you? I've only seen one like that, and I assumed that Steve had simply Bcc:d the Cypherpunks list and some other lists on that posting. Declan's recent mail has been sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], so it's possible that if you're reading it on minder.net, there's something in there that looks weird to you. But it all looks normal here.
Re: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation
At 12:48 AM 2/3/03 -0800, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: >This isn't to say that force majeure isn't the most likely culprit here. >Space travel is inherently dangerous, and I'm honestly surprised that less >than 2% of our shuttle flights have resulted in catastrophe. I heard that at the beginning of the program, NASA estimated 1 bang in about 75 flights. The Palestine meteor shower was flight 130-something and was bang #2. ... BTW, two birds with one stone: Israeli & Indian. Has anyone run their psychosocial simulators on what happens when Osama claims responsibility? Would he try this? What numbers do you get for the US pop's reaction? ... [SCITECHCOMM] There is a former NASA engineer on one of the tube stations trying to explain tech, but he is doing a poor job and unfortunately reinforcing a certain notion of engineers as monotone speakers incapable of relating tech to common experiences. He picked at a tile with his fingernail on camera, which is good, but Feynman he is not.
Re: Shuttle Humor
Meyer Wolfsheim writes: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Eric Cordian wrote: > > The look on your fellow astronauts' > > faces right before the grenade you are > > holding explodes --PRICELESS > Please. If we're going to toss around conspiracy theories, let's make sure > they are sane. I am having a hard time imagining a scenario in which it > would benefit the Israeli cause to blow up their first astronaut in space. > Perhaps if it could be made to appear as a terroristic act by the evil > ragheads, maybe Israel would attempt a stunt like this, to further the > American/Israeli "brothers in arms" mentality. But there appears to be no > such scenario that is remotely plausible. You are overanalyzing. It was parody. No one blew anything up. There was a burn through on the left wing. We now return you to your regular programming. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 09:18 AM, Thomas Shaddack wrote: ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched some component which made them slightly ill. Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them pretty sick... First, if they are eating shuttle debris, think of it as evolution in action. Second, beryllium is not much used in the mostly-aluminum shuttle. Web sites say some of the brake assemblies use beryllium and its alloys. Third, it would take longer for someone who ate a shuttle part to feel sick, due to Be or any other metal poisoning, than we saw on Saturday. I vote for the "sympathetic magic" theory. (As it happens, one of my first engineering assignments, in 1974, was working on a BeO alternative to Al2O3/alumina for packages. Berylliosis was a concern for the _manufacturing_ of the packages from pressed powder, but touching or licking or whatever the finished packages was not an issue.) --Tim May
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched > > some component which made them slightly ill. > > Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them pretty > sick... Gee golly! I'm so glad that CNN told me that the space shuttle confetti was bad for me, or I would have gnawed on that chunk of metal in my front yard! Honestly.
Shuttle Crash and KH satelites...
Several years ago, some tiles got off the shuttle during liftoff. Being afraid of the condition of space shuttle a Keyhole spy satelite was used to examine the bottom of the space shuttle... Why hell in a mission with more than 16 days in space, they didn't do it again? The KH satellites too busy with Iraq??? And now, why 5 of the 8 elements of the nasa comitte to investigate the shuttle explosion are military... in stark contrast with the feynman investigation... I have seen the high res version of shuttle launch, and it seems there is enough debris to scare you into examing the underside of the Columbia space shuttle. Did NASA ask for a KH satelite? If so, did the military say no??? Your truly, André Esteves
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
> ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched > some component which made them slightly ill. Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them pretty sick...
Self-destruct in SZ-4?
On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 12:48 AM, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: The only theory that I find remotely worth pursuing is that the shuttle was bringing something back to earth that didn't want to come down. Tim seems to have thoughts about this -- how easily could a satellite be designed with a "self-destruct upon reentering Earth's atmosphere" device? First, don't think "atmosphere" qua atmosphere, as the satellite was likely under vacuum most of the way down. Second, I would do the self-destruct with accelerometers: if several accelerations are felt, detonate. --Tim May "They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." --Rep. Ron Paul, TX, on how few Congresscritters saw the USA-PATRIOT Bill before voting overwhelmingly to impose a police state
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
Sigh, for the nth time already: While it's likely that bare boards, replacement and replaced parts, manuals, access codes to tell the satelite it's being worked on, etc... would burn up, pieces that were shielded would survive. Think! --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, [ISO-8859-1] Mikko Sdreld wrote: > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Sunder wrote: > > Far more than likely, the truth is closer that the Space Shuttles have > > been performing ultra sensitive spy work - launching new spy satelites, or > > repairing them, and may have pieces of spy satelites on them. > > > > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > > gravity... uh huh. > > Now why would they have spy satellites on board still when they are coming > _down_? One might think that if such things were part of the mission > they'd leave them up to spy, rather than bring them back down. > > -- > Mikko"One Ring to rule them all, > One Ring to find them, > One Ring to bring them all > And in the Darkness bind them."
Re: Gullible Journalists
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 09:31:35AM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > I'm exagerating for effect here of course...there's possibly not as much > conscious decision making, and supposedly this kind of list-making happens > for much quieter, "insider" stuff (not smart bomb footage). But clearly, > there's got to be SOMETHING like this happening. You're not very far off the mark. Be too critical and lose your sources. Happens at the White House and every federal agency, and is one of the tragedies of modern political journalism. I've written about this before in the context of the Justice Department antitrust suit. "Washington Babylon" is a good book that hits on this topic, I recall. -Declan
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Sunder wrote: > Far more than likely, the truth is closer that the Space Shuttles have > been performing ultra sensitive spy work - launching new spy satelites, or > repairing them, and may have pieces of spy satelites on them. > > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > gravity... uh huh. Now why would they have spy satellites on board still when they are coming _down_? One might think that if such things were part of the mission they'd leave them up to spy, rather than bring them back down. -- Mikko"One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all And in the Darkness bind them."
Re: Carter's statement yesterday
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=carter http://news.google.com/news?q=cluster:www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=75983 http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/31/sprj.irq.carter/ http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0203/01bushblair.html http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2150905 http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.asp?storyid=27062 Harmon Seaver wrote: Does anyone know where a copy of Jimmy Carter's statement yesterday can be found? Tried a google and got a zillion hits. From the Washington Post's take, it sounded quite interesting. Gee, Tim must be right, I must be a lefty if Jimmy Carter is starting to sound good. 8-) And I've even decided that come the next senate race in WI, I'm going to vote Dem for the first time in my life, at least if Feingold is running. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com -- -a. (c) Alkesh M. Desai, 2003. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
at Monday, February 03, 2003 3:48 AM, Sunder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was seen to say: > Think upgrading of circuit boards. Remove old board, insert new > board for example. Leaving the old board circling around may not be > a good thing. Just for example. Yeah, makes sense. ok, I withdraw my objections to the conspiracy theory :)
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 11:07 PM, John Kelsey wrote: A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA wants these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There are no traces of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these pieces. And they certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying to get us to feed you jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't touch them.?" I recall a guy on NPR saying something like this, a bit more politely. Something like "The pieces surely aren't going to be dangerous, but moving them is going to mess up the investigation of the crash." Which presumably is what everyone with any technical background and common sense was thinking when they heard the original warning, right? The last laugh may be from the lawsuits. Yahoo reports "hundreds" of people reporting sickness, blah blah, from contact with the debris. Almost certainly all either bullshit or sympathetic magic, but the obvious result of the news outlets widely reporting "the space debris may make you very sick!" Some fraction actually think they are sick, some fraction hope to share in a possible payout of billions by a backed-into-a-corner space agency, and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched some component which made them slightly ill. Dumb fucks, all. --Tim May "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." --John Stuart Mill
Some details on Bush's "Bioshield" plan
The White House Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release February 3, 2003 Project BioShield TODAYS PRESIDENTIAL ACTION X In his State of the Union Address, President Bush announced Project BioShield -- a comprehensive effort to develop and make available modern, effective drugs and vaccines to protect against attack by biological and chemical weapons or other dangerous pathogens. Project BioShield will: o Ensure that resources are available to pay for next-generation medical countermeasures. Project BioShield will allow the government to buy improved vaccines or drugs for smallpox, anthrax, and botulinum toxin. Use of this authority is currently estimated to be $6 billion over ten years. Funds would also be available to buy countermeasures to protect against other dangerous pathogens, such as Ebola and plague, as soon as scientists verify the safety and effectiveness of these products. o Strengthen NIH development capabilities by speeding research and development on medical countermeasures based on the most promising recent scientific discoveries; and o Give FDA the ability to make promising treatments quickly available in emergency situations this tightly controlled new authority can make the newest treatments widely available to patients who need it in a crisis. PROJECT BIOSHIELD AN OVERVIEW X Today, the country is better prepared than ever to meet the threat of terrorist attack with a biological, chemical, radiological or nuclear agent. The national stockpile of medical countermeasures is more extensive and can be accessed more rapidly than ever, and additional diagnostic tests, drugs, and vaccines are under development. X But, the possibility of the intentional use of biological or other dangerous pathogens represents a threat to our society. Unfortunately, the medical treatments available for some types of terrorist attacks have improved little in decades, while there has been tremendous and rapid progress in the treatment of many serious naturally-occurring diseases. o The smallpox vaccines available today are not much different than those last used by the public in the 1960s. Some treatments for radiation and chemical exposure have not changed much since the 1970s. o In contrast, since the 1960s, the treatment of the vast majority of naturally-occurring illnesses has changed dramatically as a result of ongoing innovations from biomedical research and development. Heart attacks were often fatal in the 1970s, but they are much less so today. Better detection and therapeutic options have significantly increased survival rates for many kinds of cancer over the last 20 years. X The President believes that, by bringing researchers, medical experts, and the biomedical industry together in a new and focused way, our Nation can achieve the same kind of treatment breakthroughs for bio-terrorism and other threats that have significantly reduced the threat of heart disease, cancer, and many other serious illnesses. The Presidents Project BioShield has three major components: Spending Authority for the Delivery of Next-Generation Medical Countermeasures. The President proposed the creation of a permanent indefinite funding authority to spur development of medical countermeasures. This authority will enable the government to purchase vaccines and other therapies as soon as experts believe that they can be made safe and effective, ensuring that the private sector devotes efforts to developing the countermeasures. o The Secretary of Homeland Security and the Secretary of Health and Human Services will collaborate in identifying critical medical countermeasures by evaluating likely threats, new opportunities in biomedical research and development, and public health considerations. New NIH Programs to Speed Research and Development on Medical Countermeasures. The President proposed to give the NIH new authorities to speed research and development in promising areas of medical countermeasure development. NIHs usual methods for supporting research and development on conventional diseases have been extremely effective in those areas but may not always be suited to meet the urgent demands posed by the risk of terrorism. The new authorities would apply only to support research and development on bioterrorism threat agents and include the following features: o The Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases would have increased authority and flexibility to award contracts and grants for research and development of medical countermeasures. Funding awards would remain subject to rigorous scientific peer review, but expedited peer review procedures could be used when appropriate. o This authority would also permit more rapid hiring of technical experts, and would allow NIH to quickly procure items necessary for research. New FDA Emer
Re: Carter's statement yesterday
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 08:38:48AM -0500, Alkesh M. Desai wrote: > http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=carter > > >http://news.google.com/news?q=cluster:www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html > > http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html > > http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=75983 > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/31/sprj.irq.carter/ > > http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0203/01bushblair.html > > http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2150905 > > http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.asp?storyid=27062 > Thanks, I found the full text at http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0203/01carter.html I must have been trying too early before, all I could find was partial quotes. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Say goodbye to the ISS
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 09:36 PM, Ralph Seberry wrote: On Sunday, 02 Feb 2003 at 20:57, Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (I am replying to the CP list, but suppressing the name of the poster. He/she sent his/her comments to a "recipient list suppressed" private distribution. If people send me comments, don't expect to me to just take them in silence. I will, however, suppress the author unless and until too many such private distributions occur.) Steve Schear sent the email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] without any attempt to disguise the sender. The full headers below are how I received the message: From: Steve Schear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 8:27:06 PM US/Pacific To: (Recipient list suppressed) Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS Received: by sphinx (mbox tcmay) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Feb 2 20:40:39 2003) Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx6.postini.com [64.75.1.146]) by sphinx.got.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with SMTP id h134WVIk017383 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:32:31 -0800 Received: from source ([209.157.136.81]) by exprod5mx6.postini.com ([64.75.1.245]) with SMTP; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:32:32 EST Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gw.lne.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) id h134PUZq020838 for cypherpunks-goingout345; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:25:30 -0800 X-From_: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Feb 2 20:32:33 2003 Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-Authentication-Warning: slack.lne.com: majordom set sender to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk
Re: "Real Facts" and "Good Facts"
At 12:26 PM -0800 2/2/03, Eric Cordian quoted: >In another teletext moment on CNN, the shuttle was described as traveling >at "Mock 18." We mach (sic) their idiocy. Cheers - Bill - Bill Frantz | Due process for all| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
Re: Say goodbye to the ISS
Yeah, I got the same thing. When I went to do a group reply, it had no CC:, just Steve. I've been noticing the same thing with Declan's messages. Weird. On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 11:15:19PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 09:36 PM, Ralph Seberry wrote: > > >On Sunday, 02 Feb 2003 at 20:57, Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>(I am replying to the CP list, but suppressing the name of the poster. > >>He/she sent his/her comments to a "recipient list suppressed" private > >>distribution. If people send me comments, don't expect to me to just > >>take them in silence. I will, however, suppress the author unless and > >>until too many such private distributions occur.) > > > >Steve Schear sent the email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >without any attempt to disguise the sender. > > > The full headers below are how I received the message: > > > > From: Steve Schear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 8:27:06 PM US/Pacific > To: (Recipient list suppressed) > Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS > Received: by sphinx (mbox tcmay) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 > 1998/05/13) Sun Feb 2 20:40:39 2003) > Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx6.postini.com [64.75.1.146]) by > sphinx.got.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with SMTP id h134WVIk017383 > for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:32:31 -0800 > Received: from source ([209.157.136.81]) by exprod5mx6.postini.com > ([64.75.1.245]) with SMTP; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:32:32 EST > Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gw.lne.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) id > h134PUZq020838 for cypherpunks-goingout345; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:25:30 > -0800 > X-From_: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Feb 2 20:32:33 2003 > Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > X-Authentication-Warning: slack.lne.com: majordom set sender to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f > Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Precedence: bulk -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Shuttle Humor
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Eric Cordian wrote: > The look on your fellow astronauts' > faces right before the grenade you are > holding explodes --PRICELESS Please. If we're going to toss around conspiracy theories, let's make sure they are sane. I am having a hard time imagining a scenario in which it would benefit the Israeli cause to blow up their first astronaut in space. Perhaps if it could be made to appear as a terroristic act by the evil ragheads, maybe Israel would attempt a stunt like this, to further the American/Israeli "brothers in arms" mentality. But there appears to be no such scenario that is remotely plausible. The only theory that I find remotely worth pursuing is that the shuttle was bringing something back to earth that didn't want to come down. Tim seems to have thoughts about this -- how easily could a satellite be designed with a "self-destruct upon reentering Earth's atmosphere" device? The motivation would certainly be there. I can't see China perpetrating a "terrorist act" against the US at this point in time, but I could see China taking steps to prevent the successful theft of its military surveillance devices. This isn't to say that force majeure isn't the most likely culprit here. Space travel is inherently dangerous, and I'm honestly surprised that less than 2% of our shuttle flights have resulted in catastrophe. -MW-
Gullible Journalists
John Kelsey wrote... "For some reason I've never been able to fathom, many journalists seem to be remarkably gullable, when they're told something from the right kind of source, especially a government agency or other official source." Chomsky (dig around on http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm) and others have commented on this quite a bit. What it seems to boil down to is a sort of natural selection. Basically, it works like this: 1) Government is releasing some cool smart-bomb commercials, erh I mean video to a few select news sources. 2) NBC sends a questioning, smart, well-informed dude to said press conference. 3) During said smart-bomb footage notices the Arabic word for Hospital on the top of the smart-bombs target, and asks "Is that a hospital?" 4) Government takes NBC off list of cool "insider" info: "Can't be trusted, not playing ball" 5) NBC, now out in the cold, assigns said informed journalist to covering Ruwanda or other low-profile stuff, and assures military officials that they'll send someone a little more cooperative next time. I'm exagerating for effect here of course...there's possibly not as much conscious decision making, and supposedly this kind of list-making happens for much quieter, "insider" stuff (not smart bomb footage). But clearly, there's got to be SOMETHING like this happening. -TD _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
At 10:19 AM 2/2/03 -0800, Tim May wrote: ... Speaking of journalists, why does Wolf Blitzer repeat this obvious lie about the metal bits and pieces being tainted by evil spirits? Because these so-called journalists are stooges for the state. Well, the bit about "18 times the speed of light," and other mistakes I've seen through the years, make me suspect that Wolf and company simply don't have the technical background and built-in BS detectors necessary to catch things like this. (For some reason I've never been able to fathom, many journalists seem to be remarkably gullable, when they're told something from the right kind of source, especially a government agency or other official source.) A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA wants these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There are no traces of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these pieces. And they certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying to get us to feed you jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't touch them.?" I recall a guy on NPR saying something like this, a bit more politely. Something like "The pieces surely aren't going to be dangerous, but moving them is going to mess up the investigation of the crash." Which presumably is what everyone with any technical background and common sense was thinking when they heard the original warning, right? --Tim May, Occupied America John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
Think upgrading of circuit boards. Remove old board, insert new board for example. Leaving the old board circling around may not be a good thing. Just for example. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dave Howe wrote: > Sunder wrote: > > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > > gravity... uh huh. > Lothe though I am to shed doubt on your consipiracy theories - but the > shuttle was on its way *down*. Why would they be bringing sooper Sekrit spy > satellites back?
Re: Say goodbye to the ISS
On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 08:27:06PM -0800, Steve Schear wrote: > I can't imagine that it would be so difficult to construct a small, > remotely-controlled, gyro stabilized, tethered probe that would be carried > on all shuttle missions and could be deployed from the cargo bay to closely > inspect the exterior of the craft for possible damage. Even if the shuttle > could not be immediately repaired, it could be somehow moored at some part > of the station and left there till a repair mission could be effected or > perhaps sacrificed by a controlled burn re-entry over an unpopulated area > of the earth as some satellites have already ended their days. In any case > astronauts would then not need to "live-test" a possibly damaged shuttle as > those on Columbia did Saturday. If they had thought there was damage, couldn't they have just done a tethered space walk to look at it? I thought space walks were a normal practice on both the shuttle and ISS. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Say goodbye to the ISS
(I am replying to the CP list, but suppressing the name of the poster. He/she sent his/her comments to a "recipient list suppressed" private distribution. If people send me comments, don't expect to me to just take them in silence. I will, however, suppress the author unless and until too many such private distributions occur.) On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 08:27 PM, X wrote: As some friends in the U.S. space program had privately predicted, and the New York Times is today reporting, unless the problem with the Shuttle can be quickly identified and convincingly rectified to worried legislators, the International Space Station may have to be moth balled and the NASA manned space program put on hold. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/science/02cnd-stati.html I was shocked to learn Saturday that NASA had not a mechanism to adequately inspect the exterior of the shuttles for damage before the return to earth. The reasons given seem to imply that NASA's ability for EVAs was very limited and did not generally include on most flight the possibility of such examinations. Further there was no effective ground or ISS-based observation method either. I can't imagine that it would be so difficult to construct a small, remotely-controlled, gyro stabilized, tethered probe that would be carried on all shuttle missions and could be deployed from the cargo bay to closely inspect the exterior of the craft for possible damage. Even if the shuttle could not be immediately repaired, it could be somehow moored at some part of the station and left there till a repair mission could be effected or perhaps sacrificed by a controlled burn re-entry over an unpopulated area of the earth as some satellites have already ended their days. In any case astronauts would then not need to "live-test" a possibly damaged shuttle as those on Columbia did Saturday. Yes, there are many things which could be done if a shuttle were to have been determined to have lost a lot of tiles: -- as you say, and as incredulous observers have been saying most of today, it is bizarre that no means of looking "under the wing" has ever been developed. NASA is saying "we never developed any method of looking under the wing because we knew that damage there is unrepairable...better just to not think about it" (I'm paraphrasing their ostrich-like words) -- at least put N -1 of the passengers on the ISS for later retrieval; the pilot could take the shuttle down and at least reduce the danger to the others -- as you suggest, park the Shuttle at the ISS and retrieve the crew, then fix the damaged shuttle later (even doing a temporary glue job with some extra tiles has got to be better than simply shrugging and saying "We can't do anything." If nothing else, knowing a critical number of tiles have been damaged means some crew can be take off, or a different descent path taken, or maybe even a different reentry profile followed.) -- at least don't let it come down over the central part of the U.S., where it was only luck that the debris did not kill people on the ground (Edwards is an OK substitute, as the period of maximum aerodynamic stress occurs well out over the Pacific.) -- as you said, it is shocking that NASA is taking the official view, "Well, we didn't look too closely because there is nothing we could do anyway." Time to clean house. Time to kill the program. Time to kill NASA. It may be necessary to hold criminal trials for the NASA officials involved. (But since the U.S. will not do this, it may be necessary) --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001
Re: Say goodbye to the ISS
At 8:27 PM -0800 2/2/03, Steve Schear wrote: >As some friends in the U.S. space program had privately predicted, and the >New York Times is today reporting, unless the problem with the Shuttle can >be quickly identified and convincingly rectified to worried legislators, >the International Space Station may have to be moth balled and the NASA >manned space program put on hold. >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/science/02cnd-stati.html I heard someone today suggesting that it was time to replace the shuttle. After all, it's 25 year old technology. I kind of expect a program to be proposed with all the usual reasons why it is "good for the country". - Bill Frantz | Due process for all| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
Apparently search warrants are not needed to enter property if NASA wants to
Watching some of the news coverage of the search (from the aptly named Palestine, Texas), it's clear that no search warrants are being gotten for the debris searchers to enter farms, yards, backyards, corporation lands, ranches, etc. The cameras show them simply vaulting fences and looking for anything they can find. When was the Fourth Amendment and "a man's home is his castle" suspended? If a property owner defends his borders with a shotgun, is he shipped to Camp X-Ray? Fuck this country. Fuck it dead. Osama, we beseech you!! --Tim May "The State is the great fiction by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else." --Frederic Bastiat
Say goodbye to the ISS
As some friends in the U.S. space program had privately predicted, and the New York Times is today reporting, unless the problem with the Shuttle can be quickly identified and convincingly rectified to worried legislators, the International Space Station may have to be moth balled and the NASA manned space program put on hold. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/science/02cnd-stati.html I was shocked to learn Saturday that NASA had not a mechanism to adequately inspect the exterior of the shuttles for damage before the return to earth. The reasons given seem to imply that NASA's ability for EVAs was very limited and did not generally include on most flight the possibility of such examinations. Further there was no effective ground or ISS-based observation method either. I can't imagine that it would be so difficult to construct a small, remotely-controlled, gyro stabilized, tethered probe that would be carried on all shuttle missions and could be deployed from the cargo bay to closely inspect the exterior of the craft for possible damage. Even if the shuttle could not be immediately repaired, it could be somehow moored at some part of the station and left there till a repair mission could be effected or perhaps sacrificed by a controlled burn re-entry over an unpopulated area of the earth as some satellites have already ended their days. In any case astronauts would then not need to "live-test" a possibly damaged shuttle as those on Columbia did Saturday. steve "Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard P. Feynman
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Sunder wrote: Far more than likely, the truth is closer that the Space Shuttles have been performing ultra sensitive spy work - launching new spy satelites, or repairing them, and may have pieces of spy satelites on them. Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero gravity... uh huh. But, but, but the Israeli Payload Specialist, the Colonel in the IDF who was on the bombing mission to take out the Osirak reactor in Iraq in 1981, certainly was not involved with any kind of surveillance satellite work! His sole duty was to investigate the effects of gamma rays on man-in-the-moon marigolds. That's NASA's story...and they're sticking to it. "Pay no attention to the Israeli Defense Forces spy behind the DOD curtain!" (Several times in the past we have only been told long after the fact that what had been billed as a "scientific mission" by NSA, er, NASA, was actually a military mission. Given that missions are very, very expensive and usually have somewhat-justifiable mission goals, the fact that this mission had no publically-disclosed goals except "science fair projects" suggests strongly why the Israeli pilot was on this particular mission. And Pakistan may be wondering what the Indian woman was doing.) --Tim May
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 10:19:27AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA > wants these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There are > no traces of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these pieces. > And they certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying to get us > to feed you jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't touch > them.?" No one with the gumption to say the truth is allowed near a mic at any major media outlet. Instead they get marginalized as a "conspiracy theorist" along with the UFO idiots, and the mass media hire dolts who will read what they're told to read. I'm not sure which is more irritating-- the obvious way in which the govermedia manipulate the issue, or their automatic assumption that americans are too stupid/criminal to turn in all the parts they find if NASA just said "we need all the parts, please bring 'em in". Eric
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
--- Eric Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Feb > I'm not sure which is more irritating-- the obvious > way in which > the govermedia manipulate the issue, or their > automatic assumption that > americans are too stupid/criminal to turn in all the > parts they > find if NASA just said "we need all the parts, > please bring 'em in". In part it seems it is because such a vast number of people in America have been so well served by the education system that the most effective way to coerce obedience is to invoke their fear of the unknown. I'm sure that the other part of the equation is that the government officials responsible for the cleanup feel they must take advantage of every oppourtunity to assert their authority; to make it impicit to every command/request. It is an insult to the intelligence, but to speak out in indignation invites the wrath of the low-level, insecure powers that be. Regards, Steve __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
At 10:19 AM 02/02/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote: Journalists may as well be saying the above, saying that shuttle debris has evil spirits which can come out if the debris is touched. They're also saying that Feds will come and arrest you if you touch them. You'll have to draw your own conclusions about equivalence classes there... (A friend of mine likens cops to vampires - they aren't supposed to come in your house unless someone invites them, but if you are so foolish as to invite them in, you won't be able to control what happens when they're there or get them to leave when you want them to go.)
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 05:42 PM, Dave Howe wrote: Sunder wrote: Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero gravity... uh huh. Lothe though I am to shed doubt on your consipiracy theories - but the shuttle was on its way *down*. Why would they be bringing sooper Sekrit spy satellites back? You haven't been reading. Cf. the threads on the Chinese Shen Zou satellite, left in orbit less than a month ago. SZ-4 is of deep interest to the IDF (Payload Specialist Ramon, who is not Mexican) and to the NRO. --Tim May "You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged." - -Michael Shirley
Re: "Real Facts" and "Good Facts"
At 12:26 PM 02/02/2003 -0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
"Truth" is no longer the opposite of false. It is what makes the Sheeple
act according to the morality of the day.
Hey, it's Chinese New Year, and my calendar says that this is
The Year of the Sheep. So I guess they're just going with the flow.
(The newspaper calls it the Year of the Ram.
Either way, Gung Hay Fat Choy.
It's also Vietnamese New Year ("Happy Anniversary of Tet Offensive")
though they call it the Year of the Goat.
Meanwhile, the Bush administration is giving us the same old bull...)
Re: punk and free markets
At 01:56 PM 2/2/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
Yes perhaps. I try not to think too much (I don't trust 'thinking' unless
its mathematics or a good experimental setup), but I'll ponder for a
while, to the extent that I am able
Well, my response was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, of course, and
I'm sure I deserved whatever polite reprimand lurked within John Young's,
um, reply.
But no subscriber, at least to a first approximation, has the power to shut
others up here ("come on out and enforce whatever ideology it is desired we
bow down to").
If you think that Tim is being critical, well, that's the way that Tim is
sometimes. Go ahead and killfile him. I routed two subscribers to my trash
folder years ago on the account I use to subscribe to cypherpunks and do
not regret it. Not only is complaining not going to work, it's not a very
cypherpunkly thing to do (to the extent that there is any commonly-held
understanding of cypherpunkly duties, you know). :)
-Declan
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
Far more than likely, the truth is closer that the Space Shuttles have been performing ultra sensitive spy work - launching new spy satelites, or repairing them, and may have pieces of spy satelites on them. Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero gravity... uh huh. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Tim May wrote: > Journalists may as well be saying the above, saying that shuttle debris > has evil spirits which can come out if the debris is touched. > A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA > wants these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There are > no traces of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these pieces. > And they certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying to get us > to feed you jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't touch > them.?"
Re: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!"
Sunder wrote: > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > gravity... uh huh. Lothe though I am to shed doubt on your consipiracy theories - but the shuttle was on its way *down*. Why would they be bringing sooper Sekrit spy satellites back?
"Real Facts" and "Good Facts"
Bill Frantz wrote: > At 10:19 AM -0800 2/2/03, Tim May wrote: > >Last laugh: CNN is carrying (10:06 a.m. PST) an "information" slug at > >the bottom of a Wolf Blitzer interview: "Columbia was traveling 18 > >times faster than the speed of light." > "Please mister spaceman, won't you please take me along for a ride." > - J. McGuinn In another teletext moment on CNN, the shuttle was described as traveling at "Mock 18." Clearly, the guy who did the legendary "Nigger Innis" interview is still employed. The nonsense we are hearing about the danger of the shuttle debris is typical of the new "truth" as defined by the religious and political right wing. "Truth" is no longer the opposite of false. It is what makes the Sheeple act according to the morality of the day. Thus, "liquid nitrogen on the shuttle debris can combine with atmospheric oxygen to produce oxides of nitrogen which are fatal when inhaled" is "true" because it keeps people from touching shuttle debris. "This is your brain on drugs" is "true" because it keeps people from smoking pot. "There are 100,000 pay child porn sites on the Web" is "true," because it causes people to exaggerate a problem for which the government wants zero tolerance. Similarly "The Islamic world is mad at at us because they hate our freedom" is "true." "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists" is "true." etc... You see, there are "real facts," and then there are "good facts." Orwell would be pleased. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
