Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
Tim is absolutely right -- we need a new Timmy McVeigh everyday. The people in that building were feds, the kids were fed kids. Unfortunate for the kids, but so what? Nits turn into lice. How many kids died at Waco?
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Monday 18 November 2002 04:03 pm, Eric Cordian wrote: Someone posted: WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A special, secretive appeals court on Monday said the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap suspected terrorism suspects under a law adopted by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Any chance that someone could post the pointer to this article? I missed it the first time. TIA -- Mike Diehl PGP Encrypted E-mail preferred. Public Key via: http://dominion.dyndns.org/~mdiehl/mdiehl.asc
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 12:59 PM, Tyler Durden wrote: These aren't meant as rhetorical I'm making a really good point questions, but actual questions. Depending on your answer, I wonder how you feel about the WTC (along with a few thousand people) getting taken out by an American Airlines Smart Missle. Interested to hear your response. (And no, I don't think the answer is necessarily obvious by anyone who's thinking correctly.) \ First, please don't top post. Comment on what you want to comment on and snip the rest. Second, the archives are there for a reason. Read past opinions, don't just abstract out a few months' worth of recent traffic and project what you believe my politics to be. Third, there are good reasons why two of our list members have been sentenced to long jail terms by Big Brother, why some have fled the country, and why the Treasury Department's Criminal Investigation Unit published my SS number and declared in documents that I am a suspected criminal of some sort (yet to be determined in their secret court proceedings). You, by being on this list, are already on _their_ list. They already know where in NYC you work. They have probably already contacted your firm to make discreet inquiries. And don't forget, as they surely won't, that Tyler Durden detonated a series of skyscrapers as his final act. Crypto is a tool of war, a tool to destroy those who are stealing our liberty. If eggs get broken, that's the nature of war. To not fight a war because innocents will die is to simply concede victory to the side that _will_ fight the war. Grow up. Did you think this was some kind of crypto hobbyist, Sunday code puzzle group? --Tim May --Tim May (Mandatory Voluntary Internet Self-Rating Follows) V-CHIP CONTENT WARNING: THIS POST IS RATED: R, V, NPC, RI, S, I13. [For processing by the required-by-1998 V-chips, those reading this post from an archive must set their V-chip to 42-0666. I will not be held responsible for posts incorrectly filtered-out by a V-chip that has been by-passed, hot-chipped, or incorrectly programmed.] ***WARNING!*** It has become necessary to warn potential readers of my messages before they proceed further. This warning may not fully protect me against criminal or civil proceedings, but it may be treated as a positive attempt to obey the various and increasing numbers of laws. * Under the ***TELECOM ACT OF 1996***, minor CHILDREN (under the age of 18) may not read or handle this message under any circumstances. If you are under 18, delete this message NOW. Also, if you are developmentally disabled, irony-impaired, emotionally traumatized, schizophrenic, suffering PMS, affected by Humor Deprivation Syndrom (HDS), or under the care of a doctor, then the TELECOM ACT OF 1996 may apply to you as well, even if you are 18. If you fall into one of these categories and are not considered competent to judge for yourself what you are reading, DELETE this message NOW. * Under the UTAH PROTECTION OF CHILDREN ACT OF 1996, those under the age of 21 may not read this post. All residents of Utah, and Mormons elsewhere, must install the M-Chip. * Under the PROTECTION OF THE REICH laws, residents of Germany may not read this post. * Under the MERCIFUL SHIELD OF ALLAH (Praise be to Him!) holy interpretations of the Koran of the following countries (but not limited to this list) you may not read this post if you are a FEMALE OF ANY AGE: Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, Sudan, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Algeria, Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia, Yemen, Oman, Syria, Bahrain, and the Palestinian Authority. Non-female persons may also be barred from reading this post, depending on the settings of your I-Chip. * Under the proposed CHINESE INTERNET laws, covering The People's Republic of China, Formosa, Hong Kong, Macao, Malaysia, and parts of several surrrounding territories, the rules are so nebulous and unspecified that I cannot say whether you are allowed to read this. Thus, you must SUBMIT any post you wish to read to your local authorities for further filtering. * In Singapore, merely be RECEIVING this post you have violated the will of Lee Kwan Yu. Report to your local police office to receive your caning. * Finally, if you are barrred from contact with the Internet, or protected by court order from being disturbed by thoughts which may disturb you, or covered by protective orders, it is up to you to adjust the settings of your V-Chip to ensure that my post does not reach you. *** THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE IN COMPLYING WITH THESE LAWS ***
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
But you forget - the BATF agents were all beeped and informed to not bother to come in to work that day, and instead met up elsewhere, suited up so they could arrive just in time (a few minutes after the boom) to be heroic. That indicates something, what exactly it indicates is left as an excercise to the reader. So does the confiscation of surveillance video from several sources across the street that was never shown as evidence (because supposedly it would have shown that McVeigh had an accomplice - who was described as possibly of Arab origin.) Further, they claimed that it was a single bomb - the truck, but eventually discovered incendiary devices inside the building. Further, the way the building exploded showed that one of the interal columns that broke could not have done so from a ryder truck parked outside the building. The lone nut theory didn't work in this case. But the results are largely the same. The death of many innocents, the loss of freedom for the rest, the ratcheting up of terror. Shades of JFK and the grassy knoll Batman! --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Anonymous wrote: Tim is absolutely right -- we need a new Timmy McVeigh everyday. The people in that building were feds, the kids were fed kids. Unfortunate for the kids, but so what? Nits turn into lice. How many kids died at Waco?
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Sunder wrote: But you forget - the BATF agents were all beeped and informed to not bother to come in to work that day, and instead met up elsewhere, suited up so they could arrive just in time (a few minutes after the boom) to be heroic. That indicates something, what exactly it indicates is left as an excercise to the reader. So does the confiscation of surveillance video from several sources across the street that was never shown as evidence (because supposedly it would have shown that McVeigh had an accomplice - who was described as possibly of Arab origin.) I remember clearly the search for man number 2, and it ended really mysteriously - the news media just stopped talking about him. I was in Chicago at the time, and the number of cops on bridges for the week after that was really amazing. Then no more searching. Further, they claimed that it was a single bomb - the truck, but eventually discovered incendiary devices inside the building. Further, the way the building exploded showed that one of the interal columns that broke could not have done so from a ryder truck parked outside the building. The lone nut theory didn't work in this case. But the results are largely the same. The death of many innocents, the loss of freedom for the rest, the ratcheting up of terror. Shades of JFK and the grassy knoll Batman! There was a lot of comment about this from explosives experts. Don't forget the seismometer recordings that showed a second explosion 10 minutes later (I think, it might have been 1 minute, but definitly much later). They also halted the search for victims so the DEA could remove file cabinets. It sure seemed to me at the time that McVeigh was the fall guy for an inside job. And given the one report about CIA meeting OBL about 2 or 3 months before 01/9/11 one wonders if the big boys just needed something *bigger* to make sure they got total control. But it's more likely stupidity than malfesance. McVeigh was nut, and the BATF stored explosives under a day care center, McVeigh's bomb didn't distroy the building, it just set off the explosives that weren't supposed to be there. Doesn't explain man #2 tho So there's plenty of meat for conspiracy theory for a long time to come! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
Quoting Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Third, there are good reasons why two of our list members have been sentenced to long jail terms by Big Brother, why some have fled the country, and why the Treasury Department's Criminal Investigation Unit published my SS number and declared in documents that I am a suspected criminal of some sort (yet to be determined in their secret court proceedings). For the lazy: http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.1999.03.29-1999.04.04/msg6.html and for background on that see: http://www.antioffline.com/apol.html -- Keith Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- OpenPGP Key: 0x79269A12
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
So there's plenty of meat for conspiracy theory for a long time to come Dave Emory has documented possible links between McVeigh and neo-fascist groups. Search through http://www.spitfirelist.com/. He also extensively documents connections between the Bush family and the bin Ladens http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/DX...try Los Amigos de Bush and other programs in the months after 9/11 for a start (ironically, he had begun extensively tracing these connections shortly prior to 9/11). In either case, one may end up dismissing all of the connections as circumstantial, but the process of getting there will not be a comfortable one, particularly in the case of 9/11. As for me, I regard both events as key towards turning the US into the nice little Polic State we always wanted. So I get a little pissy when the breaking of the eggs argument is used in either context. _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
But you forget - the BATF agents were all beeped and informed to not bother to come in to work that day, and instead met up elsewhere, suited up so they could arrive just in time (a few minutes after the boom) to be heroic. That indicates something, what exactly it indicates is left as an excercise to the reader. Mainly it indicates how gullible you are when it comes to conspiracy theories. http://www.courttv.com/casefiles/oklahoma/nichtranscripts/1126pm.html http://www.courttv.com/casefiles/oklahoma/documents/grandjury_123098.html http://www.okcitytrial.com/content/dailytx/050697a/LukeFraneyDirectExaminatio.html http://63.147.65.175/bomb/bomb0109.htm
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
And to think some people think Timoth McVeigh was wrong in liquidating a military target. Holy Crap May, I'm not quite sure how you meant this but I find this distrubing (and I agree with a lot of what you post)...by Military Target do you mean the building, or the people (and children) who were in it? Can people who do not know they are military targets count as military targets? These aren't meant as rhetorical I'm making a really good point questions, but actual questions. Depending on your answer, I wonder how you feel about the WTC (along with a few thousand people) getting taken out by an American Airlines Smart Missle. Interested to hear your response. (And no, I don't think the answer is necessarily obvious by anyone who's thinking correctly.) From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:13:55 -0800 On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 10:31 AM, Elyn Wollensky wrote: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers 36 minutes ago WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A special, secretive appeals court on Monday said the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap suspected terrorism suspects under a law adopted by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Well, this is what you get with Star Chamber Government: not only are the actual specific _cases_ done with secret prosecutors, secret judges, secret panels, but the arguments over the underlying legal issues (which obviously cannot compromise a specific intelligence case and hence have no reason to be secret, even in Orwellian logic) are also secret. One wonders about secret rulings which have never been made public. Perhaps the Supreme Court also meets in secret and issues secret rulings. We have always been at war with Eastasia. Ignorance is strength. And to think some people think Timoth McVeigh was wrong in liquidating a military target. --Tim May _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
Someone posted: WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A special, secretive appeals court on Monday said the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap suspected terrorism suspects under a law adopted by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. So we not only have secret courts, we have secret appeals courts to reverse secret court decisions the government doesn't like. One wonders what one finds as one travels futher up the secret judiciary. Is there a secret Supreme Court too, which interprets the Secret Constitution for us? Fascinating stuff, I'm sure. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Re: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers
On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 10:31 AM, Elyn Wollensky wrote: Secret Court Says U.S. Has Broad Wiretap Powers 36 minutes ago WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A special, secretive appeals court on Monday said the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap suspected terrorism suspects under a law adopted by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Well, this is what you get with Star Chamber Government: not only are the actual specific _cases_ done with secret prosecutors, secret judges, secret panels, but the arguments over the underlying legal issues (which obviously cannot compromise a specific intelligence case and hence have no reason to be secret, even in Orwellian logic) are also secret. One wonders about secret rulings which have never been made public. Perhaps the Supreme Court also meets in secret and issues secret rulings. We have always been at war with Eastasia. Ignorance is strength. And to think some people think Timoth McVeigh was wrong in liquidating a military target. --Tim May
