Re: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
This has now happened - Terry Lloyd one, of Britain's better-known reporters, seems to have been killed by US marines. According to the cameraman he was picked up by Iraqi ambulance, so its a fair bet they weren't embedded in the COW (thanks for the acronym, Tim) http://www.itv.com/news/236548.html Ken Brown wrote: Major Variola (ret) wrote: I'd think that the troops would explain this to the reporters tagging along as they confiscate all their transmitters before an op. I simply wouldn't trust the reporters, even though they're toast too if someone mis-IFFs. Its a lot more serious than not shutting off your cell phone on a plane. Besides, I doubt the reporters have Iraq's FCC's clearance to use those frequencies there, until we extend the Little Powell's authority to that domain. :-) Kate Adie's broadcast (which I heard on the BBC) was in the context of a discussion of non-embedded reporters. She claimed that all the best news from Gulf War 2 had been from people who weren't bedding with the military. The ones who are being threatened are the ones with the temerity to travel independently rather than under military orders. There was also a comment by Robert Fisk to the effect that (I can't remember the exact words): There will be a war on. There is no law in a war, you can do whatever you can get away with. In an article I found online Fisk gives his rules of thumb for spotring compromised reporters: - Reporters who wear items of American or British military costume helmets, camouflage jackets, weapons, etc. - Reporters who say we when they are referring to the US or British military unit in which they are embedded. - Those who use the words collateral damage instead of dead civilians. - Those who commence answering questions with the words: Well, of course, because of military security I can't divulge... - Those who, reporting from the Iraqi side, insist on referring to the Iraqi population as his (ie Saddam's) people. - Journalists in Baghdad who refer to what the Americans describe as Saddam Hussein's human rights abuses rather than the plain and simple torture we all know Saddam practices. - Journalists reporting from either side who use the god-awful and creepy phrase officials say without naming, quite specifically, who these often lying officials are.
RE: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
Ken Brown[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has now happened - Terry Lloyd one, of Britain's better-known reporters, seems to have been killed by US marines. According to the cameraman he was picked up by Iraqi ambulance, so its a fair bet they weren't embedded in the COW (thanks for the acronym, Tim) http://www.itv.com/news/236548.html Ken Brown wrote: [...] Kate Adie's broadcast (which I heard on the BBC) was in the context of a discussion of non-embedded reporters. She claimed that all the best news from Gulf War 2 had been from people who weren't bedding with the military. The ones who are being threatened are the ones with the temerity to travel independently rather than under military orders. Let's not mix apples and oranges. Kate Adie's report concerned the possibility that air-launched anti-radiation missiles might be directed against radar-band transmitters in enemy territory, without first checking to see if they were actually reporter's microwave satellite uplinks. Terry Lloyd was in a battle zone, on the Iraqi side. I kind of doubt if he was wearing hunter orange, or a big flashing neon sign saying Western Journalist: Don't shoot me. Without commenting on the legitimacy of the US invasion, it looks to me like Mr Lloyd took a calculated risk to get the news from from the Iraqi side of the front lines, and tragically lost. Peter Trei
RE: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
At 7:12 AM -0800 3/14/03, Trei, Peter wrote: If the US military does Really Bad Things to Iraqi civilians with any frequency, I have little doubt we'll hear about it in time. There are journalists 'embedded' in many units. In the credit where credit's due department, this change in press relations is one of the better things to come out of the G. W. Bush administration. Compared with the way the press was handled during Gulf War I, this approach is much more likely to bring incidents such as Mai Lai to the light of day. (It also should produce a much better version of, War, the Latest Reality Show, coming to a TV network near you.) Cheers - Bill - Bill Frantz | Due process for all| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the | 16345 Englewood Ave. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | American way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
Re: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
Major Variola (ret) wrote: I'd think that the troops would explain this to the reporters tagging along as they confiscate all their transmitters before an op. I simply wouldn't trust the reporters, even though they're toast too if someone mis-IFFs. Its a lot more serious than not shutting off your cell phone on a plane. Besides, I doubt the reporters have Iraq's FCC's clearance to use those frequencies there, until we extend the Little Powell's authority to that domain. :-) Kate Adie's broadcast (which I heard on the BBC) was in the context of a discussion of non-embedded reporters. She claimed that all the best news from Gulf War 2 had been from people who weren't bedding with the military. The ones who are being threatened are the ones with the temerity to travel independently rather than under military orders. There was also a comment by Robert Fisk to the effect that (I can't remember the exact words): There will be a war on. There is no law in a war, you can do whatever you can get away with. In an article I found online Fisk gives his rules of thumb for spotring compromised reporters: - Reporters who wear items of American or British military costume helmets, camouflage jackets, weapons, etc. - Reporters who say we when they are referring to the US or British military unit in which they are embedded. - Those who use the words collateral damage instead of dead civilians. - Those who commence answering questions with the words: Well, of course, because of military security I can't divulge... - Those who, reporting from the Iraqi side, insist on referring to the Iraqi population as his (ie Saddam's) people. - Journalists in Baghdad who refer to what the Americans describe as Saddam Hussein's human rights abuses rather than the plain and simple torture we all know Saddam practices. - Journalists reporting from either side who use the god-awful and creepy phrase officials say without naming, quite specifically, who these often lying officials are.
Re: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
At 11:22 AM 03/13/2003 -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: This is nothing new. Radio and TV stations and other unauthorized sources of information are always first on the target list whenever the US starts a war. At the beginning of Part I of this war they showed the smart bomb or cruise missile or whatever blowing up the Baghdad phone company building. As someone who works for the phone company, I have to say this pissed me off :-) I think the Pentagon spokeshomo put it this way. Propaganda outlets ARE military targets. Propaganda being anything not released by the Pentagon, of course. Peter Trei wrote: Stopping useful information on *ongoing* operations from reaching the enemy has been a normal, unremarkable part of waging war for over 150 years. During the initial bombing campaign in Part I, Ramsay Clark and some journalists did a week-long couple-thousand-mile drive around Iraq filming the damage being done. One of the important parts was showing downtown Baghdad apartment buildings being bombed because they were near bridges or the water system or other strategic targets and interviewing the people who lived there. In spite of all the commercials for smart bombs and cruise missiles, most of the armament dropped on Iraq back then was dumb iron bombs; one group of people were starting to think about blowing up their own bridge so that the Yankees would stop bombing their apartments when they missed. If this part of the war starts, civilian areas in downtown are much more likely to be part of the target space than before, because it's about Regime Change, not repelling invading armies.
RE: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
Sunder[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29750.html Airstrike! The Pentagon simplifies media relations By John Lettice Posted: 13/03/2003 at 17:10 GMT Should war in the Gulf commence, the Pentagon proposes to take radical new steps in media relations - 'unauthorised' journalists will be shot at. Speaking on The Sunday Show on Ireland's RTE1 last sunday veteran war reporter Kate Adie said she had been warned by a senior Pentagon official that uplinks, i.e. TV broadcasts or satellite phones, that are detected by US aircraft are likely to be fired on. ok. A loitering US plane equipped with HARMs (High explosive Anti Radiation Missiles) detects a satellite uplink from within or just our side of the front line (or even out front). It lacks the correct IFF codes. Is it: 1. An journalist doing what he was specifically told not to do? 2. An Iraqi or Al-Queda forward fire director, calling in coordinates for a VX loaded missile attack on your side. If you wait, and it's a bad guy, the signal will be lost, and you can't use your missiles. The attack will take place, and your friends will die. Make a decision. Now. Peter Trei
Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29750.html Airstrike! The Pentagon simplifies media relations By John Lettice Posted: 13/03/2003 at 17:10 GMT Should war in the Gulf commence, the Pentagon proposes to take radical new steps in media relations - 'unauthorised' journalists will be shot at. Speaking on The Sunday Show on Ireland's RTE1 last sunday veteran war reporter Kate Adie said she had been warned by a senior Pentagon official that uplinks, i.e. TV broadcasts or satellite phones, that are detected by US aircraft are likely to be fired on. SNIP Hey, we're fighting for freedom after all, the freedom to suppress the truth... So how soon before France is on the Axis of Evil? :) --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
RE: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
At 02:04 PM 3/13/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote: Is it: 1. An journalist doing what he was specifically told not to do? 2. An Iraqi or Al-Queda forward fire director, calling in coordinates for a VX loaded missile attack on your side. I'd think that the troops would explain this to the reporters tagging along as they confiscate all their transmitters before an op. I simply wouldn't trust the reporters, even though they're toast too if someone mis-IFFs. Its a lot more serious than not shutting off your cell phone on a plane. Besides, I doubt the reporters have Iraq's FCC's clearance to use those frequencies there, until we extend the Little Powell's authority to that domain. :-)
RE: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Trei, Peter wrote: 1. An journalist doing what he was specifically told not to do? Most probably. Those pesky civilians. No backbone, no way to gag them by extreme sanctioning after perfunctory tribunal. 2. An Iraqi or Al-Queda forward fire director, calling in coordinates for a VX loaded missile attack on your side. They don't have anything stronger than dirty sarin or crappy lost. Tipping bad SCUD clones. If you wait, and it's a bad guy, the signal will be lost, and you can't use your missiles. The attack will take place, and your friends will die. All they want is to blow up enough journalists to deter them from reporting from hot areas thus acting as a leak thus acting as bad PR (Merkins don't do shredded meat by FAE, minimally invasive peachy-clean strategical surgery strictly). Make a decision. Nuke Washinton D.C.? Done. Now. That one was easy.
Re: Unauthorized Journalists to be shot at
At 11:54 AM 3/13/03 -0500, Sunder wrote: Hey, we're fighting for freedom after all, the freedom to suppress the truth... So how soon before France is on the Axis of Evil? :) Well, if they're giving info to Mr. Hussein their embassy there could be NIMA'd, as in oops, we hit the Chinese consulate in Yugoslavia, but it was a mapping error. Taking out Paris would probably require more explanation. --- Would you like some Jewish Fries with that, Congressman. Moran?