West Coast...Galileo...decent NSA dudes?

2002-12-18 Thread Anonymous
Well, there's some truth to Tim May's east/west coast characterization, at least as 
far as technology is concerned. East coasters tend to think in terms of fitting into 
pre-existing organizations and structures, west-coasters are far more able to conceive 
of creating a new structure. (The arts are a completely different matter, however!)

But what I don't fully get is why stance matters, per se. For instance, take p2p. We 
can actually argue all we want about what government should/not do about the 
problem, but in the end file sharing is just about unstoppable.

If I write or release an app, then, that will facilitate seamless (ie, within the 
Kazaa browser, for instance) transmision and storage of shared files in an encrypted 
format, it kinda doesn't matter what my personal philosophy is, does it? I can claim 
to be a libertarian or say that Ayn Rand is a big pooh-pooh head, but in the end its 
pretty clear that file sharing is here to stay. Governing authorities can attempt to 
make all kinds of useless laws against it, or perhaps (and I don't think this is 
impossible), accept it as a reality and thereby strengthen its relevance to our every 
day existence (ie, I don't consider it impossible that some legislation could come 
along that might make things better for most people). Look, traffic lights work pretty 
good, and the hypothetical existence of hidden cops make us take them seriously.

In other words, I'm not particularly pro- or anti-government per se. Frankly, I don't 
care a ton what the government does on this issue (for instance). By writing and 
releasing apps (or simply conceiving of and discussing new apps which are one day 
coded by others), I enable the safe-er transfer of files by those who choose to do so. 
I don't really know or care if they are transferring intellectual property...that's 
for individuals to decide.

But by supporting (through actions and creating stuff) P2P, I am in effect taking a 
protocol nuetral stance...I am enabling individuals to generate and broadcast their 
own content, and make their own morality and even rules (eventually we'll see various 
trading cultures come into being on top of P2P). If that strengthens some government 
eventually, so beit. If that tumbles some governments (I admit more likely), so beit. 
(In a way, the protocol neutrality of cryto and other technologies also acts as a 
bellwether...if we weren't sure a government was repressive before, we'll get an idea 
very quickly after releasing a killer crypto app.) But in the end, the fact is that 
the cat is out of the bag and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks should/could/would 
happen.




Technology is the main thing altering policy in directions we favor. 
The VCR changed policy through technological means...the Court in 
Disney v. Sony (the Betamax case) only provided a fig leaf (fair 
use, time-shifting) for the horse already being irreversibly out of 
the barn. The wide use of networks, SSH, crypto in general, made any 
crackdown on crypto in the U.S. a hopeless case, hence the retreat 
on Clipper, export laws.

The invention of the printing press gave the pirates of that age 
the ability to subvert state-granted ownership of information. This 
long pass altered the ground truth in ways that law spent the next 
several hundred years dealing with.

Actually there's some truth here. The Catholic church, arguably, was not upset with 
Galileo so much for saying the earth moves around the sun (Church big-shots at the 
time agreed with him and saw no contradiction with religious teachings). The real 
threat was that Galileo was claiming that knowing this could be achieved by direct 
observation of nature, bypassing the church. Likewise with the Protestant reformation, 
the printing press, the compass, and the appearence of fixed-hour clocks in town 
centers (as opposed to the monastary). And you know what? The Catholic church still 
ain't exactly the center of enlightened thinking on most issues (the pope silenced the 
big So American liberation theologians, remember), but you know what? It still exists, 
and it's a hell of a lot less repressive than it was during Galileo's time. So 
heliocentrism proved that the church was both repressive, but also had enough 
something or other to deal with it and change.





Yes, I am unabashedly a technological determinist. I was talking in 
terms of knowledgequakes changing the environment long before Lessig 
neatly summarized the ideas (independent of me, by the way) in his 
tripod of custom vs. tools vs. law. (he has since expanded this to 
four legs, IIRC, but I favor the simpler version, the version which 
matches my own analysis from the early 90s.)

This is why Cypherpunks have no use for Washington.

Again, what I don't understand is the (apparently) necessary linking between the 
creation of enabling technologies and the existence (or eventual nonexistence) of 
ruling bodies as a whole. My point is not so much that any view on such 

Re: West Coast...Galileo...decent NSA dudes?

2002-12-18 Thread Morlock Elloi
 But what I don't fully get is why stance matters, per se. For instance,
 take p2p. We can actually argue all we want about what government should/not
 do about the problem, but in the end file sharing is just about
 unstoppable.
 
 If I write or release an app, then, that will facilitate seamless (ie,
 within the Kazaa browser, for instance) transmision and storage of shared
 files in an encrypted format, it kinda doesn't matter what my personal
 philosophy is, does it? I can claim to be a libertarian or say that Ayn Rand
...
 In other words, I'm not particularly pro- or anti-government per se. Frankly,
 I don't care a ton what the government does on this issue (for instance). By
 writing and releasing apps (or simply conceiving of and discussing new apps

Changing the method (or introducing a new one) of communication between
subjects is inherently anti-government.

Government is that by control, and requiring it to do extra work to retain that
control is generally viewed as unpleasant. French resisted introduction of
telegraph for several decades - the government insisted on soldier-guarded
signalling tower system.

I can not think of any current government that would not be shit scared at the
prospect of all subjects suddenly acquiring method for secret or untraceable
(or both) communication.

So your releasing of that p2p app is and will be viewed as pushing arms (free
guns, imagine the possibilities) and will be dealt with accordingly. Especially
if you make it to operate as simply as .45

 

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