Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
* Mark Feit [11-14-21 15:44]: > On 11/14/21 8:22 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote: > > but *you* are doing what you believe darktable should never do, altering > > the original raw file. exiftool changing the DateTimeOriginal *is* > > altering the original raw file and may cause you lose of data by altering > > the original. > > > That's the user's doing, and if they're doing it, they know they're doing > it. Lettubg darktable do it violates the principle of least astonishment. > > The user has the option of taking steps to preserve the "original original" > if they want to. I have absolutely no argument with him altering his raw files, only that he believes he is doing no harm. He is free to delete them. but he surely cannot believe that he is not altering the raw file. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode What sort of day was it? A day like all days, filled with those events that alter and illuminate our times... all things are as they were then, but were you there? ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Actually I think this is a matter of belief and to have a consistent argument. I would like to have a way to correct the exif information but sure thing this modified the original data. Since writing exif is writing to the file it's a violation of the rules to never write to the raw file. If you wrote the exif then you could also write something else because you already write, so where is the difference - might be an upcoming argument for a new feature request and so step by step room would emerge for features that alter the original file. I mean yeah, changing the file might break the format of the file as specified by the manufacturer. It might lead to data loss. It might just work. It might look like it just works but something is broken that you cannot easily detect and find out painfully eventually. Because afaik the raw formats are more implemented by reverse engineering than implementing a full standard I agree that following the religious 'never write to the raw file' is the correct way to deal with it but in my heart I am wishing for a feature that modifies the exif information permanently (and so writes to the raw). Peter Harde schrieb am So., 14. Nov. 2021, 14:42: > exiftool changing the DateTimeOriginal *is* > altering the original raw file and may cause you lose of data by altering > the original. > > Changing a parameter which is definitely wrong is not a loss of data but a > correction. exiftool preserves the original file by adding "_original" to > the file name. No danger of loss of data until the new file, created by > exiftool, has been validated. > > ___ > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
* Peter Harde [11-14-21 08:44]: > > exiftool changing the DateTimeOriginal *is* > > altering the original raw file and may cause you lose of data by altering > > the original. > Changing a parameter which is definitely wrong is not a loss of data but a > correction. exiftool preserves the original file by adding "|_original|" to > the file name. No danger of loss of data until the new file, created by > exiftool, has been validated. validated ??? only the camera vendor can do that as no one else has access to their proprietary software. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode What sort of day was it? A day like all days, filled with those events that alter and illuminate our times... all things are as they were then, but were you there? ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
exiftool changing the DateTimeOriginal *is* altering the original raw file and may cause you lose of data by altering the original. Changing a parameter which is definitely wrong is not a loss of data but a correction. exiftool preserves the original file by adding "|_original|" to the file name. No danger of loss of data until the new file, created by exiftool, has been validated. ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
* Peter Harde [11-14-21 02:00]: > Am 13.11.21 um 21:34 schrieb Coding Dave: > > darktable will never change the raw file but you might want to change > > the date taken exif information. > I absolutely agree, darktable should never change the raw file. That's the > reason why I use exiftool to rough adjust "DateTimeOriginal" of the raw > files to the day the original (analog) image was taken *before* importing > into darktable. > > So you might spend huge amount of work with darktable to correct the > > exif data and expect this to have a permanent effect. Now imagine you > > open the raw data with another program, then your tuning of date taken > > exif information does not show up. So it looks like you've lost the > > work. > I'm aware of this situation. > > You will realize that you might have intended to change the exif in the > > image, not the sidecar information. > That's exactly what I'm doing (see above). Where it is reasonable darktable > is used only to fine tune the *time* information of "DateTimeOriginal". but *you* are doing what you believe darktable should never do, altering the original raw file. exiftool changing the DateTimeOriginal *is* altering the original raw file and may cause you lose of data by altering the original. I adjust the filename to reflect DateTimeOriginal. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode What sort of day was it? A day like all days, filled with those events that alter and illuminate our times... all things are as they were then, but were you there? ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Hi Philippe, here are the results of the pending tests : * darkroom -> pattern for image information line : $(EXIF_DAY).$(EXIF_MONTH).$(EXIF_YEAR) • $(EXIF_HOUR):$(EXIF_MINUTE):$(EXIF_SECOND) • $(FILE_NAME) • $(MAKER) $(MODEL) • $(LENS) • $(EXIF_EXPOSURE) s • f/$(EXIF_APERTURE) • $(EXIF_FOCAL_LENGTH) mm • ISO $(EXIF_ISO) • Sterne: $(RATING_ICONS) • Breite/Höhe: $(SENSOR_WIDTH) x $(SENSOR_HEIGHT) px • Crop: $(CROP_WIDTH) x $(CROP_HEIGHT) px • OpenCL : $(OPENCL_ACTIVATED) gives the result shown in the attached screenshot. * ligthtable -> export to .../$(EXIF_YEAR)/$(ROLL_NAME)/$(SEQUENCE)-$(FILE_NAME) is working as expected, folder "1961" correctly created * checked exif information of exported jpeg : "DateTimeOriginal" is correct, modifications done with geotagging module correctly considered so for me it looks like there are no more issues. I support your idea to introduce a variable $(EXIF_MSEC) for the use case of images taken in burst mode. I agree with you that considering microseconds is not necessary. Hava a nice day Peter Am 13.11.21 um 12:23 schrieb Philippe Weyland: Hi Peter, Thanks for testing. In the import process, exif time reading may suffer some limitation due to epoch 0 as well. Do have your source images such old datetimes ? Thanks Philippe ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Am 13.11.21 um 21:34 schrieb Coding Dave: darktable will never change the raw file but you might want to change the date taken exif information. I absolutely agree, darktable should never change the raw file. That's the reason why I use exiftool to rough adjust "DateTimeOriginal" of the raw files to the day the original (analog) image was taken *before* importing into darktable. So you might spend huge amount of work with darktable to correct the exif data and expect this to have a permanent effect. Now imagine you open the raw data with another program, then your tuning of date taken exif information does not show up. So it looks like you've lost the work. I'm aware of this situation. You will realize that you might have intended to change the exif in the image, not the sidecar information. That's exactly what I'm doing (see above). Where it is reasonable darktable is used only to fine tune the *time* information of "DateTimeOriginal". ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
I believe this is the right approach: darktable will never change the raw file but you might want to change the date taken exif information. So you might spend huge amount of work with darktable to correct the exif data and expect this to have a permanent effect. Now imagine you open the raw data with another program, then your tuning of date taken exif information does not show up. So it looks like you've lost the work. You will realize that you might have intended to change the exif in the image, not the sidecar information. Peter Harde schrieb am Sa., 13. Nov. 2021, 16:07: > Hi Philippe, > > yes, but I never had problems at import until now. The images of interest > here are reproductions of negatives or slides, reproduced with a Sony DSLR. > Of course they have "DateTimeOriginal" of the reproduction date/time > (2019-2021). Then : > >- batch processing with exiftool, changing "DateTimeOriginal" of all >images originally taken at the same day to -MM-DD 12:00:00 of this day >- importing images into darktable (all images have "DateTimeOriginal" >smaller linux epoch 0 at import) >- selecting / processing / sorting / geotagging (if possible) >- fine tuning time with geotagging module (if reasonable) > > exiftool handles dates before linux epoch 0 without problems and for the > import module of dt I observe the same. > > Best regards > > Peter > Am 13.11.21 um 12:23 schrieb Philippe Weyland: > > Hi Peter, > Thanks for testing. > In the import process, exif time reading may suffer some limitation due to > epoch 0 as well. Do have your source images such old datetimes ? > Thanks > Philippe > > > ___ > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
After replying to your mail I Just read your feature request https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/10398. As said, no problems at import, dates before linux epoch 0 show correct "OriginalDateTme" in "image information" module just as in the sidecar file. For the variables like $(EXIF_YEAR) I don't know. Unfortunately I'm not at my computer with the images at the moment, so I can't test. Will do this tomorrow and report to you. Am 13.11.21 um 12:23 schrieb Philippe Weyland: Hi Peter, Thanks for testing. In the import process, exif time reading may suffer some limitation due to epoch 0 as well. Do have your source images such old datetimes ? Thanks Philippe ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Hi Philippe, yes, but I never had problems at import until now. The images of interest here are reproductions of negatives or slides, reproduced with a Sony DSLR. Of course they have "DateTimeOriginal" of the reproduction date/time (2019-2021). Then : * batch processing with exiftool, changing "DateTimeOriginal" of all images originally taken at the same day to -MM-DD 12:00:00 of this day * importing images into darktable (all images have "DateTimeOriginal" smaller linux epoch 0 at import) * selecting / processing / sorting / geotagging (if possible) * fine tuning time with geotagging module (if reasonable) exiftool handles dates before linux epoch 0 without problems and for the import module of dt I observe the same. Best regards Peter Am 13.11.21 um 12:23 schrieb Philippe Weyland: Hi Peter, Thanks for testing. In the import process, exif time reading may suffer some limitation due to epoch 0 as well. Do have your source images such old datetimes ? Thanks Philippe ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Hi Philippe, I'm really impressed to see your immediate response. I just created a dirty build with your modified geotagging.c from https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/pull/10395/commits/f87ce99f4caa68dc6d73a3ec9666c5a15fbc4071 and did some tests with images from the early sixties changing date and/or time for them. Geotagging module worked without any trouble. For me the modifications seem to be ok. Did not test applying gpx tracking data, no such device available. Thank you very much. Best regards Peter Harde Am 12.11.21 um 20:05 schrieb Philippe Weyland: PR #10395 on the way. Testers are welcome ! ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
On 8.11.21 13:50, Coding Dave wrote: Is this a valid usecase? I mean do you really correct digital photos with exif information from before epoch 0? What is your usecase? I have tons of pictures from my parents from the 60's that I digitized and timestamped accurate to a month using estimates/labels on the negative roll. Didn't run into this because geotagging is always on the todo list but when I will get to it this will become and issue for sure. .mm ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Hi, yes Graham, you are right. My usecase is digitizing of negatives (or slides) : * starting with "DateTimeOriginal" set to date/time of digitizing process (useless) * all images originally taken at the same day moved into one folder named -MM-DD * batch processing with exiftool setting "DateTimeOriginal" of all images in this folder to ":MM:DD 12:00:00" * import into darktable * selecting / processing / sorting / geotagging (if possible) * fine tuning time with geotagging module (if possible and reasonable) This workflow fails for dates before 1970-01-01. Best regards Peter Harde ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
You might have scans of old photos, for example. And those old photos would be the originals, it seems to me. On Mon, 8 Nov 2021, 12:50 Coding Dave, wrote: > Is this a valid usecase? I mean do you really correct digital photos with > exif information from before epoch 0? What is your usecase? > > Kind regards > Dave > > Am So., 7. Nov. 2021 um 17:40 Uhr schrieb Peter Harde < > peter.harde.pri...@gmail.com>: > >> Dear developers, >> >> dt 3.7.0+1375~g182b5819f, Ubuntu 20.04 >> >> timestamps of images before 1970-01-01 (Unix epoch time 0) cannot be >> corrected using the geotagging module. Even if the exif tag >> "DateTimeOriginal" is correctly set, the field "original date/time" of >> the module remains empty. Because the epoch time is at least saved as >> signed integer, negative values represent dates/times before 1970-01-01. >> dt should not ignore them. >> >> Best regards >> >> Peter Harde >> >> >> ___ >> darktable developer mailing list >> to unsubscribe send a mail to >> darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org >> >> > ___ > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Is this a valid usecase? I mean do you really correct digital photos with exif information from before epoch 0? What is your usecase? Kind regards Dave Am So., 7. Nov. 2021 um 17:40 Uhr schrieb Peter Harde < peter.harde.pri...@gmail.com>: > Dear developers, > > dt 3.7.0+1375~g182b5819f, Ubuntu 20.04 > > timestamps of images before 1970-01-01 (Unix epoch time 0) cannot be > corrected using the geotagging module. Even if the exif tag > "DateTimeOriginal" is correctly set, the field "original date/time" of > the module remains empty. Because the epoch time is at least saved as > signed integer, negative values represent dates/times before 1970-01-01. > dt should not ignore them. > > Best regards > > Peter Harde > > ___ > darktable developer mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
[darktable-dev] Geotagging module not working with dates < 1970-01-01
Dear developers, dt 3.7.0+1375~g182b5819f, Ubuntu 20.04 timestamps of images before 1970-01-01 (Unix epoch time 0) cannot be corrected using the geotagging module. Even if the exif tag "DateTimeOriginal" is correctly set, the field "original date/time" of the module remains empty. Because the epoch time is at least saved as signed integer, negative values represent dates/times before 1970-01-01. dt should not ignore them. Best regards Peter Harde ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
