Re: [darktable-user] to compile darktable or not....
On vendredi 21 août 2020 03:58:38 CEST Patrick Shanahan wrote: > * darkta...@911networks.com [08-20-20 20:47]: (...) > > I'm soon setting up a laptop with Opensuse Leap. I'd like to have > > the latest DT. > > > > I've never compiled DT before but I would like to compile it myself with > > all the "bell & whistles". > > > > Is there a script for compile all the "extra" for before adding them > > into DT? > > the instructions on github page work fine. > on your openSUSE system, first you need the necessary apps to do the > building, > zypper -v si -d darktable > > now follow github instructions. That said, in my experience there usually is a compiled version available for Opensuse rather soon after a new version is published. Although you'll need one of the additional (OBS) repositories. And be aware that things can get hairy if ever you have to compile dependencies as well (like how do you solve version incompatibilities). Remco darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] to compile darktable or not....
* darkta...@911networks.com [08-20-20 20:47]: > On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:53:56 -0400 > Top Rock Photography wrote: > > > I compile for two reasons: > > ... > >2. Some features are NOT in the official ubuntu build. > > > > For example, WebP support, and AVIF support. (WebP, I use, AVIF, I > > just want to play around with). Indeed, one build I got from > > official ubuntu repos did have WebP support, but NOT with > > EXIF/metadata. That build used an old version of Exiftool. I had to > > dwnld & compile the latest Exiftool, then compile the latest Dt. > > I'm soon setting up a laptop with Opensuse Leap. I'd like to have > the latest DT. > > I've never compiled DT before but I would like to compile it myself with > all the "bell & whistles". > > Is there a script for compile all the "extra" for before adding them > into DT? the instructions on github page work fine. on your openSUSE system, first you need the necessary apps to do the building, zypper -v si -d darktable now follow github instructions. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] to compile darktable or not....
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:53:56 -0400 Top Rock Photography wrote: > I compile for two reasons: > ... >2. Some features are NOT in the official ubuntu build. > > For example, WebP support, and AVIF support. (WebP, I use, AVIF, I > just want to play around with). Indeed, one build I got from > official ubuntu repos did have WebP support, but NOT with > EXIF/metadata. That build used an old version of Exiftool. I had to > dwnld & compile the latest Exiftool, then compile the latest Dt. I'm soon setting up a laptop with Opensuse Leap. I'd like to have the latest DT. I've never compiled DT before but I would like to compile it myself with all the "bell & whistles". Is there a script for compile all the "extra" for before adding them into DT? -- sknahT vyS darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 20:21:33 +0200 Marc Cabuy wrote: > encountered in the very first weeks with dt. But is there somewhere a > blog (in English or French) that you can advise where ideas are > exchanged/posted about (creative) use of dt's capabilities? > Have you tried this? https://pixls.us/ -- Hilsen/Regards Michael Rasmussen Get my public GnuPG keys: michael rasmussen cc https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?search=0xD3C9A00E mir datanom net https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?search=0xE501F51C mir miras org https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?search=0xE3E80917 -- /usr/games/fortune -es says: Your job is being a professor and researcher: That's one hell of a good excuse for some of the brain-damages of minix. (Linus Torvalds to Andrew Tanenbaum) pgpv4bo01accz.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Hi, I absolutely agree it can be very easy to use. Darktable like all software apps has a learning curve but you tube has loads of videos to help, I found that using lightroom years ago I had the initial learning process. You can create styles in dt to speed things up and just apply them then fine tune after. I would never consider a move back to in my opinion inferior software with it's lack of masking options, and again in my opinion a bloated catalogue system taking up valuable storage on the hard drive, not to mention the cost. Many of my friends have moved to dt over the years and none have gone back, in fact many have also moved to linux on my recommendation and none of them have moved back to microsoft. Long live open source, it's the way forward. A big thanks to all the developers of darktable for there work over the years, wow dt 3.2.1 is brilliant, the new theme's, import options, filmic rgb, tone curve etc etc etc. Phil Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, 20 August 2020 17:35, Pascal Obry wrote: > Le jeudi 20 août 2020 à 17:18 +0200, marc.ca...@gmail.com a écrit : > > > But otherwise you have to warn your friends that the threshold for > > learning dt is high. Lightroom and others are, as you say, much > > simpler and intuitive. > > I just don't agree. I had given courses on Lightroom (just to say I > knew it pretty well) but you have to compare them with the same > feature. I had no problem moving to darktable and you want to consider > the feature available in Lr only when comparing. Of course dt can do > lot better (masking, tools like Filmic, Liquify...) but this is not > available in Lr. > > Start dt, put 5 simple modules (tone curve, exposition, color zone, wb, > crop & rotate) in your favorites. Start from this and you'll see that > it is not that difficult. > > So that's certainly not difficult for everybody. > > -- > > Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) > > The best way to travel is by means of imagination > > http://www.obry.net > > gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] to compile darktable or not....
I compile for two reasons: 1. It is often a n unbearable wait for the latest version to come to ubuntu [evenYear].04 LTS, and 2. Some features are NOT in the official ubuntu build. For example, WebP support, and AVIF support. (WebP, I use, AVIF, I just want to play around with). Indeed, one build I got from official ubuntu repos did have WebP support, but NOT with EXIF/metadata. That build used an old version of Exiftool. I had to dwnld & compile the latest Exiftool, then compile the latest Dt. If the build for your platform is current, and it has all the features which you want, then there is no need to compile. If you are missing a feature which you deem is important, then go ahead and compile…. …BUT NOT from dailies/beta. Use the stable branch. (Well, you can use the dailies, just do not bet on it working flawlessly). I have compiled several stable versions of Dt now, without any apparent bugs, (beyond what is mentioned in the release notes/bug reports). Good luck. Sincerely, Karim Hosein Top Rock Photography 754.999.1652 On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 14:11, Michael wrote: > that is the question! > Is there any benefit to compiling the program on my own? > > -- > :-)~MIKE~(-: > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
It appears that this email may not have been delivered - so I am re-sending it. If this is a duplication I apologize. I have been following this thread and agree wholeheartedly that darktable is an incredible piece of software. I'm a bit surprised that someone could call it very difficult. Any really capable graphics program is going to have many complexities and endless features., so the question of how intuitive a program is must be evaluated against true peers and possibly on the basis of the program's unique strengths. The real strength of DT - for me at least - is the speed and precision with which various effects can be applied - mainly via masks. As far as I know, it is unique in this regard. I strongly suggest that beginners find good Youtube videos on DT and learn the essentials - only the absolute basics of a couple of modules first. Learn the Contrast Brightness Saturation module. Learn the application of a mask very early. Learn how to add new instances of a module. Learn the interface. Learn the Crop And Rotate module. Get good at these two before venturing much further. Maybe a little color management. But don't try to master ten modules at one time. Only a few modules are needed to have enormous editing power. Stay completely away from management of groups of images at first. For a beginner, the management of large collections of images is a distraction and only duplicates (mostly) the functions of many other pieces of software. Reading some comments convinces me that people are trying to deploy too many features all at once, far too early in the learning process. As far as recommending software to friends, better to briefly mention it and then immediately change the subject. People switch software when they are ready and not a moment before. Just because I love DT or Linux means almost nothing to friends and acquaintances. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 at 09:40, Kneops wrote: > For example the filmic module is so full of options > and sliders and words that are not obvious/comprehensible for most > people You don't *have to* use them all... I set exposure in the exposure module, set the white and black point, and that's it for filmic. For filmic v3, there was even a style for Aurélien where you didn't even have to touch filmic at all. https://discuss.pixls.us/t/basic-semi-automated-style-for-darktable-3-0-filmic/17072?u=aurelienpierre Or see https://discuss.pixls.us/t/darktable-3-0-for-dummies-in-3-modules/15849 Kofa darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
All, Thank you for your feedback. I highly value your reflections on my black&white statements, certainly when it comes to convince others/friends about (my recent discovery of) darktable. This current blog has been very helpful, and still is, for issues that I encountered in the very first weeks with dt. But is there somewhere a blog (in English or French) that you can advise where ideas are exchanged/posted about (creative) use of dt's capabilities? Also again thank you to all involved in the making and growing of dt. Marc. > Op 20 aug. 2020 om 18:58 heeft orcinus.phil het > volgende geschreven: > > Hi, I absolutely agree it can be very easy to use. Darktable like all > software apps has a learning curve but you tube has loads of videos to help, > I found that using lightroom years ago I had the initial learning process. > You can create styles in dt to speed things up and just apply them then fine > tune after. I would never consider a move back to in my opinion inferior > software with it's lack of masking options, and again in my opinion a bloated > catalogue system taking up valuable storage on the hard drive, not to mention > the cost. Many of my friends have moved to dt over the years and none have > gone back, in fact many have also moved to linux on my recommendation and > none of them have moved back to microsoft. Long live open source, it's the > way forward. A big thanks to all the developers of darktable for there work > over the years, wow dt 3.2.1 is brilliant, the new theme's, import options, > filmic rgb, tone curve etc etc etc. > Phil > > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ >> On Thursday, 20 August 2020 17:35, Pascal Obry wrote: >> >>> Le jeudi 20 août 2020 à 17:18 +0200, marc.ca...@gmail.com a écrit : >>> >>> But otherwise you have to warn your friends that the threshold for >>> learning dt is high. Lightroom and others are, as you say, much >>> simpler and intuitive. >> >> I just don't agree. I had given courses on Lightroom (just to say I >> knew it pretty well) but you have to compare them with the same >> feature. I had no problem moving to darktable and you want to consider >> the feature available in Lr only when comparing. Of course dt can do >> lot better (masking, tools like Filmic, Liquify...) but this is not >> available in Lr. >> >> Start dt, put 5 simple modules (tone curve, exposition, color zone, wb, >> crop & rotate) in your favorites. Start from this and you'll see that >> it is not that difficult. >> >> So that's certainly not difficult for everybody. >> >> -- >> >> Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) >> >> The best way to travel is by means of imagination >> >> http://www.obry.net >> >> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B >> >> darktable user mailing list >> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
I have been following this thread and agree wholeheartedly that darktable is an incredible piece of software. I'm a bit surprised that someone could call it very difficult. Any really capable graphics program is going to have many complexities and endless features., so the question of how intuitive a program is must be evaluated against true peers and possibly on the basis of the program's unique strengths. The real strength of DT - for me at least - is the speed and precision with which various effects can be applied - mainly via masks. As far as I know, it is unique in this regard. I strongly suggest that beginners find good Youtube videos on DT and learn the essentials - only the absolute basics of a couple of modules first. Learn the Contrast Brightness Saturation module. Learn the application of a mask very early. Learn how to add new instances of a module. Learn the interface. Learn the Crop And Rotate module. Get good at these two before venturing much further. Maybe a little color management. But don't try to master ten modules at one time. Only a few modules are needed to have enormous editing power. Stay completely away from management of groups of images at first. For a beginner, the management of large collections of images is a distraction and only duplicates (mostly) the functions of many other pieces of software. Reading some comments convinces me that people are trying to deploy too many features all at once, far too early in the learning process. As far as recommending software to friends, better to briefly mention it and then immediately change the subject. People switch software when they are ready and not a moment before. Just because I love DT or Linux means almost nothing to friends and acquaintances. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
I have to agree with Pascal that there is a 'simplified' way of using dt that essentially makes it even far easier than using lr. I place 6 modules into my favorites, each is preset for my normal needs and then with 90% of my images all I need to do is to adjust the white and black relative exposure in filmic-rgb . nothing else! Selective masking and all of the extra goodies that come with dt should always be considered secondary to being able to produce good results with minimum of effort. Yes, I do have 'difficult' images that do take more time but the most recent iteration of dt makes basic processing a breeze. David On 20.08.20 18:35, Pascal Obry wrote: Le jeudi 20 août 2020 à 17:18 +0200, marc.ca...@gmail.com a écrit : But otherwise you have to warn your friends that the threshold for learning dt is high. Lightroom and others are, as you say, much simpler and intuitive. I just don't agree. I had given courses on Lightroom (just to say I knew it pretty well) but you have to compare them with the same feature. I had no problem moving to darktable and you want to consider the feature available in Lr only when comparing. Of course dt can do lot better (masking, tools like Filmic, Liquify...) but this is not available in Lr. Start dt, put 5 simple modules (tone curve, exposition, color zone, wb, crop & rotate) in your favorites. Start from this and you'll see that it is not that difficult. So that's certainly not difficult for everybody. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Le jeudi 20 août 2020 à 17:18 +0200, marc.ca...@gmail.com a écrit : > But otherwise you have to warn your friends that the threshold for > learning dt is high. Lightroom and others are, as you say, much > simpler and intuitive. I just don't agree. I had given courses on Lightroom (just to say I knew it pretty well) but you have to compare them with the same feature. I had no problem moving to darktable and you want to consider the feature available in Lr only when comparing. Of course dt can do lot better (masking, tools like Filmic, Liquify...) but this is not available in Lr. Start dt, put 5 simple modules (tone curve, exposition, color zone, wb, crop & rotate) in your favorites. Start from this and you'll see that it is not that difficult. So that's certainly not difficult for everybody. -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
On jeudi 20 août 2020 17:18:22 CEST marc.ca...@gmail.com wrote: > Jack, > > I do indeed think that I also will not be able to easily convince friends to > use darktable. As an amateur, my reason for trying to use dt has to do with > the subscription model that is being established more and more by software > publishers. Not only by Adobe, also Microsoft does that with Office 365. So > you might convince your friends as follows. > You may or may not like the subscription model, but buying the software and upgrades wasn't cheap either (afaik, yearly costs came to about the same amount). > “If you don't want to be held in hostage financially with your own > collection of photos in the catalog, you should consider leaving Lightroom. > Because you cannot control the price and the easiness of access to your own > work in the catalog.” > As for being held hostage: if you stop paying for LR etc., you will not be able to easily modify your existing edits, true. Otoh, if for whatever reason you can no longer use darktable, you'll find yourself in the exact same situation... In both cases, you'll still have your original files and any edits you exported to an external file (jpg, tiff, png, ...) And in both cases, if you write sidecar files, you'll have access to all the metadata as well (if they weren't written with the exports). > Furthermore, I don't really trust Capture One in that area either. There is > speculation that they also may apply a subscription only model in the > future. Keep in mind that those (windows) programs are written and maintained by large corporations, with a *paid* staff of programmers, documentation writers etc. There is no way that a free open source program like darktable can reach a similar level of staffing. Remco darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
RE: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
Jack, I do indeed think that I also will not be able to easily convince friends to use darktable. As an amateur, my reason for trying to use dt has to do with the subscription model that is being established more and more by software publishers. Not only by Adobe, also Microsoft does that with Office 365. So you might convince your friends as follows. “If you don't want to be held in hostage financially with your own collection of photos in the catalog, you should consider leaving Lightroom. Because you cannot control the price and the easiness of access to your own work in the catalog.” Furthermore, I don't really trust Capture One in that area either. There is speculation that they also may apply a subscription only model in the future. But otherwise you have to warn your friends that the threshold for learning dt is high. Lightroom and others are, as you say, much simpler and intuitive. I started using dt about 2 months ago in my free time (I have a fulltime job) and I only have now my 1st 4 photos to my liking. Also there might come more of intuitive modules, like for instance the ‘basic adjustments’ module. The MAC and Windows versions make it also accessible to the broader public. Marc. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Kneops Verzonden: donderdag 20 augustus 2020 9:39 Aan: darktable-user@lists.darktable.org Onderwerp: Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review @jason and @pascal, I agree, it is a marvellous piece of work, unbelievable really and I love it but not use it as much as I would like to. And I would never recommend it to friends :(. Even for me as a freelance photographer (20+ years of experience) it feels like it is made for techies, not (yet) intuitive enough. For example the filmic module is so full of options and sliders and words that are not obvious/comprehensible for most people and even I have much difficulty in understanding what they do. I just start using the sliders and always slide in the wrong direction at first ;). My feeling says that when I see a slider that says 'White relative exposure' I want to drag it to the right to get more white tones, but the opposite happens. I'm not a fan of Windows, Adobe and LR, but I still use the latter because it is intuitive. With a few sliders I get almost exactly what I want with 99% of my images and very fast (even though LR lacks speed and I don't like the catalogs/collections system of it). That is why most people still use LR I think. It has sliders that are called White Tones, Black Tones, Highlights, Texture, all very clear in what they do and how to use them. If DT wants to drag a lot of people to its open source alternative, imho it needs to be simplified. LR lacks power and options for more adjustments, but what it does it does quite nicely. Highlight and shadow recovery always looks very natural, whereas in DT highlight recovery is not good enough and shadow recovery can look very harsh and artificial. But... I'm really a fan of DT and hope I can use it on a daily basis and convert my newest pc back into a Linux machine, because LR is the only reason I bought it (my other Linux computer is for webdesign work). Could have been Capture One or one of the other options as well by the way, what I'm trying to say is not LR specific. So, a lot of love and admiration for DT, but some suggestions for the future :). Jack Op 19-08-2020 om 10:00 schreef Pascal Obry: > > Hi Jason, > >> Overall impressions: a worthy improvement (thanks, developers!). I am >> going to adjust to a new workflow with darktable 3.2, but it is not a >> big adjustment. I think overall darktable has come very far since the >> early days, and it is hard to believe such a program is free >> software. > > Nice to read such message among all the bug reports. This amazing piece > of work is maintained by many talented people accros the planet. The > best we can do to keep our freedom against the big players trying to > lock us down in their world which ressemble to a golden jail. > > Cheers, > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] How to zero star rate an image?
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:16:08 +1000 Andrew Greig wrote: > In 3.0.x using the keyboard typing 1 when the file is selected will > give it one star, typing 0 will leave it with no stars > > With the mouse clicking on the first star will apply a 1 star rating, > but if it already has a one star rating clicking on the first star > will remove its rating, for me, using the keyboard/numberpad is less > fiddly and more certain. > > Cheers > > Andrew Greig > > On 20/8/20 9:25 am, Patrick Shanahan wrote: > > * Mark Heieis [08-19-20 19:03]: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I import images with zero rating and then apply ratings > >> accordingly. Previous to 3.0.2, I could zero rate an image by > >> toggling star-1 (assuming only star 1 is toggled on) if the rating > >> is no longer desired. > >> > >> I must be missing something, how do I zero rate an image from the > >> UI, as I seem to be unable to remove ratings now. > > try setting stars with "0" > > instead of "1" > > > > I found that any number from 0 - 5 on the keyboard; but not on the number pad will change the rating. Paul darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review
@jason and @pascal, I agree, it is a marvellous piece of work, unbelievable really and I love it but not use it as much as I would like to. And I would never recommend it to friends :(. Even for me as a freelance photographer (20+ years of experience) it feels like it is made for techies, not (yet) intuitive enough. For example the filmic module is so full of options and sliders and words that are not obvious/comprehensible for most people and even I have much difficulty in understanding what they do. I just start using the sliders and always slide in the wrong direction at first ;). My feeling says that when I see a slider that says 'White relative exposure' I want to drag it to the right to get more white tones, but the opposite happens. I'm not a fan of Windows, Adobe and LR, but I still use the latter because it is intuitive. With a few sliders I get almost exactly what I want with 99% of my images and very fast (even though LR lacks speed and I don't like the catalogs/collections system of it). That is why most people still use LR I think. It has sliders that are called White Tones, Black Tones, Highlights, Texture, all very clear in what they do and how to use them. If DT wants to drag a lot of people to its open source alternative, imho it needs to be simplified. LR lacks power and options for more adjustments, but what it does it does quite nicely. Highlight and shadow recovery always looks very natural, whereas in DT highlight recovery is not good enough and shadow recovery can look very harsh and artificial. But... I'm really a fan of DT and hope I can use it on a daily basis and convert my newest pc back into a Linux machine, because LR is the only reason I bought it (my other Linux computer is for webdesign work). Could have been Capture One or one of the other options as well by the way, what I'm trying to say is not LR specific. So, a lot of love and admiration for DT, but some suggestions for the future :). Jack Op 19-08-2020 om 10:00 schreef Pascal Obry: Hi Jason, Overall impressions: a worthy improvement (thanks, developers!). I am going to adjust to a new workflow with darktable 3.2, but it is not a big adjustment. I think overall darktable has come very far since the early days, and it is hard to believe such a program is free software. Nice to read such message among all the bug reports. This amazing piece of work is maintained by many talented people accros the planet. The best we can do to keep our freedom against the big players trying to lock us down in their world which ressemble to a golden jail. Cheers, darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
