Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

The link to the thread is

https://www.mail-archive.com/darktable-user@lists.darktable.org/msg00805.html

 

Rgrds,

 

J.-Luc

 

> Message du 02/02/17 20:34
> De : "Jean-Luc CECCOLI" 
> A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?
> 
>
> Hello,

>  

> I finally found the thread about this topic, from last summer !

> Unfortunately, I couldn't find how to paste the link to the first message, 
> sorry.

> Is is from 26th of july, 2016 and was started by Vidar Hoel. Its title : A 
> better starting point for Nikon raw files.

> I've been using this method since then, I'm very satisfied with its results.

>  

> Rgrds,

>  

> J.-Luc

>  

>  

>  

>  

> Message du 31/01/17 07:43
> De : "Remco Viëtor" 
> A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?
> 
> On lundi 30 janvier 2017 16:22:15 CET Jani Kajala wrote:
> > Thanks for the tips, activating "shadows and highlights" module and "base
> > curve" + changing base curve from "Nikon like" to "Nikon D750" indeed did
> > the trick, now getting identical starting point in LR and DT, and this
> > matches also very closely to default JPG output from the camera.
> 
> Just keep in mind that the main reason to use RAW files is _not_ to reproduce 
> the in-camera jpegs (if it was, why bother). That's not to say that it 
> shouldn't be possible, but quite often you can do better than in-camera jpeg 
> (esp. wrt highlights and sharpening).
> 
> A large part of the treatment depends on taste. For instance, I quite often 
> use the Leica-like basecurve, instead of the automatically selected 
> Sony-like. 
> That gets me a darker image, with less blown highlights (the Sony-like curve, 
> like some others, is _very_ flat at the right side, so less visible detail in 
> e.g. clouds). If that makes the shadows too dark, exposure fusion, tone 
> curve, 
> etc. correct that. And I often prefer a slightly darker image than the 
> default 
> jpeg gives me, anyway.
> 
> So, for me, reproducing the in-camera jpeg would at best be a starting point.
> 
> Remco
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
>

>  
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to 
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 
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Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

Hello,

 

I finally found the thread about this topic, from last summer !

Unfortunately, I couldn't find how to paste the link to the first message, 
sorry.

Is is from 26th of july, 2016 and was started by Vidar Hoel. Its title : A 
better starting point for Nikon raw files.

I've been using this method since then, I'm very satisfied with its results.

 

Rgrds,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

 

> Message du 31/01/17 07:43
> De : "Remco Viëtor" 
> A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?
> 
> On lundi 30 janvier 2017 16:22:15 CET Jani Kajala wrote:
> > Thanks for the tips, activating "shadows and highlights" module and "base
> > curve" + changing base curve from "Nikon like" to "Nikon D750" indeed did
> > the trick, now getting identical starting point in LR and DT, and this
> > matches also very closely to default JPG output from the camera.
> 
> Just keep in mind that the main reason to use RAW files is _not_ to reproduce 
> the in-camera jpegs (if it was, why bother). That's not to say that it 
> shouldn't be possible, but quite often you can do better than in-camera jpeg 
> (esp. wrt highlights and sharpening).
> 
> A large part of the treatment depends on taste. For instance, I quite often 
> use the Leica-like basecurve, instead of the automatically selected 
> Sony-like. 
> That gets me a darker image, with less blown highlights (the Sony-like curve, 
> like some others, is _very_ flat at the right side, so less visible detail in 
> e.g. clouds). If that makes the shadows too dark, exposure fusion, tone 
> curve, 
> etc. correct that. And I often prefer a slightly darker image than the 
> default 
> jpeg gives me, anyway.
> 
> So, for me, reproducing the in-camera jpeg would at best be a starting point.
> 
> Remco
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
>

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Re: why alway raw? was : Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 1 février 2017 19:04:39 CET Serge Schmitt wrote:
> Le mardi 31 janvier 2017 07:43:27 Remco Viëtor a écrit :
> > And I often prefer a slightly darker image than the default
> > jpeg gives me, anyway.
> 
> While I can understand and still mostly favor myself the use of raw files, I
> cannot understand the use of "default jpeg". Why use "default" settings
> while there are so many possibilities to tweak the image in camera ?
 
I agree that I could get the look I want by tweaking the camera settings.
What I meant here with 'default' was 'the default DT gives me'.

> As an "amateur" photographer for 55 years, I always have seen, first with
> "labo", to day with software, processing as mostly desperate attempts to
> remedy bad exposure... So the in camera process would be for most people the
> best choice...

And the in-camera processing is what most people use in practice. But those 
are not the users you find here (almost by definition, as DT is a RAW 
processor...).  

> In this meaning, and based on what I see on Flickr, Ipernity and others I'm
> conviced that one day I'll probably shoot 90% jpeg, which nevertheless can
> be sufficently (for my taste) tweaked in Darktable and Bros. Most people
> won't ever never see the difference when printed or on screen size.

Same thing, most people shoot jpeg only (is there any phone that produces RAW 
images?). They don't need more, and don't want more. Nothing wrong with that.
But that's not a reason for *me* to limit myself to what the camera is willing 
to produce. I prefer getting the best possible exposure in camera, and then 
get the image I want while working on a decently sized screen, with better 
tools than a camera can give me

Also, you took my reply out of it's context, which was a question about how to 
get the same image as the camera delivered. I just pointed out that, while 
reproducing the in-camera image might be a good starting point, it's not the 
aim of using RAW format, so he should not limit himself to that or get too 
fixated on that.

Remco

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Re: why alway raw? was : Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[I. Ivanov]

On 2017-02-01 10:54 AM, Chris Siebenmann wrote:

In this meaning, and based on what I see on Flickr, Ipernity and
others I'm conviced that one day I'll probably shoot 90% jpeg, which
nevertheless can be sufficently (for my taste) tweaked in Darktable
and Bros. Most people won't ever never see the difference when printed
or on screen size.

  I expect to always shoot in RAW for two reasons, no matter how good and
tweakable the JPEG processing in cameras get.

  First, shooting in RAW means that I don't have to try to judge the
picture's colour and tonality from the little LCD on the back of the
camera while I'm out in the field. Plenty of painful experience has
shown me that I am fairly bad at this, in both directions even with
just camera JPEGs (pictures that look fine or even great rendered on
the LCD look bad on the computer, and 'wrong' pictures can look fine on
the computer). Since RAW can change both tonality and colours after the
fact without much problems, I can mostly get away with just checking the
histogram.

(Since I not infrequently shift white balance for artistic effect,
getting the colours right isn't just as simple as 'take a white balance
shot off a grey card beforehand'. Accurate WB gives me 'correct' JPEG
colours, but not necessarily the colours that I want.)

  Second, I'm increasingly using Darktable to make selective alterations
to only some areas of the picture to do things like bring up shadows or
tame highlights. Even if cameras become technically capable of doing
this, I don't want to try to set it up and do it through the little back
of camera LCD and the limited control interface a camera necessarily is
restricted to.

  In theory I believe you can do all these sorts of alterations on
JPEGs after the fact, not just RAWs. However, my understanding is
that RAWs give you far more latitude to do things without creating
visible artifacts like posterization. And in practice, photo
processing programs today and probably in the future are far more
willing to do these sort of changes with RAWs than with JPEGs.

  Even if I could reliably 'get it right' in the camera and know that I'd
done so, I sometimes change my mind about how best to realize a picture
once I'm staring at it on my computer. The on the spot idea I had in my
head when I took the picture is not always right or the best option.
Sometimes there's a better option (and sometimes the photo turns out to
be a writeoff, and no amount of tweaking its development will help).
Good points I also switched to all RAW. For a period of time I was 
shooting both JPG and RAW. Then when I compared the results (and my 
corrections are quite basic... I moved to RAW only. I don't even try to 
match JPG any more.


Regards,
B


- cks

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why alway raw? was : Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Serge Schmitt]

Le mardi 31 janvier 2017 07:43:27 Remco Viëtor a écrit :
> And I often prefer a slightly darker image than the default 
> jpeg gives me, anyway.

While I can understand and still mostly favor myself the use of raw files, I 
cannot understand the use of "default jpeg". Why use "default" settings 
while there are so many possibilities to tweak the image in camera ?

As an "amateur" photographer for 55 years, I always have seen, first with 
"labo", to day with software, processing as mostly desperate attempts to 
remedy bad exposure... So the in camera process would be for most people the 
best choice...

In this meaning, and based on what I see on Flickr, Ipernity and others I'm 
conviced that one day I'll probably shoot 90% jpeg, which nevertheless can 
be sufficently (for my taste) tweaked in Darktable and Bros. Most people 
won't ever never see the difference when printed or on screen size.

I post rarely here so I have to say at least once how I an thankfull to the 
devellopers and maintainers of Darktable.

I also apologize for my froggish english... ;-)
Serge
Canon G3, Panasonic G1, Olympus EM-5, good lenses and adapted 
globbledeegloop, and recently a Panasonic TZ100 became my "always in my 
pocket" gear. Cute.




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Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 30 janvier 2017 16:22:15 CET Jani Kajala wrote:
> Thanks for the tips, activating "shadows and highlights" module and "base
> curve" + changing base curve from "Nikon like" to "Nikon D750" indeed did
> the trick, now getting identical starting point in LR and DT, and this
> matches also very closely to default JPG output from the camera.

Just keep in mind that the main reason to use RAW files is _not_ to reproduce 
the in-camera jpegs (if it was, why bother). That's not to say that it 
shouldn't be possible, but quite often you can do better than in-camera jpeg 
(esp. wrt highlights and sharpening).

A large part of the treatment depends on taste. For instance, I quite often 
use the Leica-like basecurve, instead of the automatically selected Sony-like. 
That gets me a darker image, with less blown highlights (the Sony-like curve, 
like some others, is _very_ flat at the right side, so less visible detail in 
e.g. clouds). If that makes the shadows too dark, exposure fusion, tone curve, 
etc. correct that. And I often prefer a slightly darker image than the default 
jpeg gives me, anyway.

So, for me, reproducing the in-camera jpeg would at best be a starting point.

Remco

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Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Jani Kajala]

Thanks for the tips, activating "shadows and highlights" module and "base
curve" + changing base curve from "Nikon like" to "Nikon D750" indeed did
the trick, now getting identical starting point in LR and DT, and this
matches also very closely to default JPG output from the camera.


Br,
Jani


On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Matthieu Moy 
wrote:

> - Original Message -
> > https://www.kajala.com/cmp2.png
> >
> > So top left Lightroom, top right Darktable with "Nikon D750" base curve,
> > bottom left "Nikon like" base curve in Darktable and bottom right
> original
> > JPG straight from camera.
>
> At this point, the difference is probably a difference of processing, not
> a "bug".
>
> Your camera probably has some treatment of shadows and highlights
> activated (D-lighting in Nikon's terminology). dt does as little as
> possible by default, but just activating "shadows and highlights" should
> bring you to a comparable result.
>
> --
> Matthieu Moy
> https://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Matthieu Moy]

- Original Message -
> https://www.kajala.com/cmp2.png
> 
> So top left Lightroom, top right Darktable with "Nikon D750" base curve,
> bottom left "Nikon like" base curve in Darktable and bottom right original
> JPG straight from camera.

At this point, the difference is probably a difference of processing, not a 
"bug".

Your camera probably has some treatment of shadows and highlights activated 
(D-lighting in Nikon's terminology). dt does as little as possible by default, 
but just activating "shadows and highlights" should bring you to a comparable 
result.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
https://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

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Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Matthieu Moy]

Jani Kajala  writes:

> I have problem that the imported NEFs look dull by default. See
> comparison:
>
> https://www.kajala.com/cmp.png

Is the basecurve module activated? What does it look like?

Is the dull-ness only visible after export, or do you see it from dt
too?

> Also, D750 profile is not listed in "Lens correction" module (D700 and
> D800 are in the list but not D750).

The only relevant parameter about the camera is the crop factor. You can
select any camera with the same crop factor, and you can even create an
entry in the lensfun database (darktable itself doesn't really know
about lens correction, it calls the lensfun library who does all the
work):

http://lensfun.sourceforge.net/manual/addcamera.html
http://lensfun.sourceforge.net/manual/dbsearch.html
(=> you can create an xml file in ~/.local/share/lensfun)

Good news is: D750 is already supported by lensfun in the latest version
of lensfun, so another option is to upgrade lensfun or wait for your
distro to update it for you.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

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Re: [darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Hans Vanpee]

Hi Jani,

Darktable works perfectly fine with the D750 files. I usually change the
base curve to the "Nikon D750" preset to get some more pop. The default
"nikon like" is rather dark.
Not all lenses are available in the lensfun database but it is possible to
add them yourself if needed.

Hans

Op ma 30 jan. 2017 om 07:14 schreef Jani Kajala :

> Hi,
>
> I'm currently testing Darktable 2.2.2 on Ubuntu 16.04. Camera is Nikon
> D750 and lens Nikon 24-70/2.8. Default settings out of the box.
>
> I have problem that the imported NEFs look dull by default. See comparison:
>
> https://www.kajala.com/cmp.png
>
> Top center: NEF imported to Lightroom
> Bottom left: NEF imported to Darktable
> Bottom right: JPG straight from Camera
>
> Also, D750 profile is not listed in "Lens correction" module (D700 and
> D800 are in the list but not D750).
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jani
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
-- 
Hans Vanpée
https://vanpee.fr






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[darktable-user] Nikon D750 support?

[Jani Kajala]

Hi,

I'm currently testing Darktable 2.2.2 on Ubuntu 16.04. Camera is Nikon D750
and lens Nikon 24-70/2.8. Default settings out of the box.

I have problem that the imported NEFs look dull by default. See comparison:

https://www.kajala.com/cmp.png

Top center: NEF imported to Lightroom
Bottom left: NEF imported to Darktable
Bottom right: JPG straight from Camera

Also, D750 profile is not listed in "Lens correction" module (D700 and D800
are in the list but not D750).

Suggestions?


Thanks,
Jani


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