Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

I recall that this was done on purpose. The nature of legal questions is
that they oftentimes contain sensitive information.

Let's move this discussion to the Bug [1]. Janet is copied on the bug
and should be able to clarify.

Wayne

[1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=166285

On 04/25/2012 04:00 PM, Miles Parker wrote:
> I'm guessing it's just an accident of how the IP system was setup, e.g. no 
> set of permissions set up for IP questions vs. actual CQs.
>
> On 2012-04-25, at 12:58 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>
>> Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy:
>>
>>> Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright
>>> initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less).  I
>>> don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed
>>> doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency.
>> +1
>>
>> I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean
>> but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something)
>> or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -- 
>> Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
>> "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
>> Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
>> http://blog.pdark.de/
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Denis Roy]

Here it is:

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=166285

A new menu option in Committer tools, called Initiate an IP
discussion using IPZilla has been created.  Using this option, committers can
open new IPBugs to discuss IP issues.


I'm guessing with the transition from Committer Tools > Portal this
functionality got lost.  At the very least, I think Aaron should be CC'd
on the discussion CQ so that he can participate.

I'll reopen the bug.  Something about it just doesn't seem right.




On 04/25/2012 04:11 PM, Denis Roy wrote:
> Could be -- but I implemented that functionality, and I don't remember
> that to be part of the design.  I'll look into it.
>
>
> On 04/25/2012 04:00 PM, Miles Parker wrote:
>> I'm guessing it's just an accident of how the IP system was setup, e.g. no 
>> set of permissions set up for IP questions vs. actual CQs.
>>
>> On 2012-04-25, at 12:58 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>>
>>> Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy:
>>>
 Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright
 initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less).  I
 don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed
 doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency.
>>> +1
>>>
>>> I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean
>>> but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something)
>>> or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
>>> "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
>>> Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
>>> http://blog.pdark.de/
>>> ___
>>>

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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Denis Roy]

Could be -- but I implemented that functionality, and I don't remember
that to be part of the design.  I'll look into it.


On 04/25/2012 04:00 PM, Miles Parker wrote:
> I'm guessing it's just an accident of how the IP system was setup, e.g. no 
> set of permissions set up for IP questions vs. actual CQs.
>
> On 2012-04-25, at 12:58 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>
>> Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy:
>>
>>> Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright
>>> initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less).  I
>>> don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed
>>> doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency.
>> +1
>>
>> I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean
>> but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something)
>> or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -- 
>> Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
>> "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
>> Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
>> http://blog.pdark.de/
>> ___
>> dash-dev mailing list
>> dash-dev@eclipse.org
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
> ___
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Office: 613.224.9461 x224 (Eastern time)
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Miles Parker]

I'm guessing it's just an accident of how the IP system was setup, e.g. no set 
of permissions set up for IP questions vs. actual CQs.

On 2012-04-25, at 12:58 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:

> Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy:
> 
>> Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright
>> initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less).  I
>> don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed
>> doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency.
> 
> +1
> 
> I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean
> but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something)
> or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
> "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
> Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
> http://blog.pdark.de/
> ___
> dash-dev mailing list
> dash-dev@eclipse.org
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev

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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy:

> Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright
> initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less).  I
> don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed
> doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency.

+1

I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean
but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something)
or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)?

Regards,

-- 
Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
"It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
http://blog.pdark.de/
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Denis Roy]

Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright
initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less).  I
don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed
doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency.



On 04/25/2012 03:41 PM, Miles Parker wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm imagining this, but I thought this policy was created to add
> some value to being an Eclipse partner company. If you're a partner
> you get to see all of the CQs... yippee!
>
> On 2012-04-25, at 12:26 PM, Denis Roy wrote:
>
>> Why?
>>
>> On 04/25/2012 03:20 PM, Wayne Beaton wrote:
>>> IP questions are kept private.
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>> On 04/25/2012 02:42 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
 Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton:

> Question is posted.
 Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search
 doesn't show up anything :-/

 https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&emailassigne
  d_to1=1&a
 mp;emailtype1=
 substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=2012-04-23&chfieldto=Now&chfield=%5BBug+creation%5D&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

 Regards,

>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Wayne Beaton
>>> The Eclipse Foundation
>>> Twitter: @waynebeaton
>>> Explore Eclipse Projects 
>>>

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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Miles Parker]

Maybe I'm imagining this, but I thought this policy was created to add some 
value to being an Eclipse partner company. If you're a partner you get to see 
all of the CQs… yippee!

On 2012-04-25, at 12:26 PM, Denis Roy wrote:

> Why?
> 
> On 04/25/2012 03:20 PM, Wayne Beaton wrote:
>> 
>> IP questions are kept private.
>> 
>> Wayne
>> 
>> On 04/25/2012 02:42 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
>>> 
 Question is posted.
>>> Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search
>>> doesn't show up anything :-/
>>> 
>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&emailassigne
>>>  d_to1=1&a
>>> mp;emailtype1=
>>> substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=2012-04-23&chfieldto=Now&chfield=%5BBug+creation%5D&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Wayne Beaton
>> The Eclipse Foundation
>> Twitter: @waynebeaton
>> Explore Eclipse Projects
>> 
>> 
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Jesse McConnell]

to prevent rifts in the IP continuum

cheers,
jesse

--
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jesse.mcconn...@gmail.com


On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 14:26, Denis Roy  wrote:
> Why?
>
>
> On 04/25/2012 03:20 PM, Wayne Beaton wrote:
>
> IP questions are kept private.
>
> Wayne
>
> On 04/25/2012 02:42 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>
> Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
>
> Question is posted.
>
> Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search
> doesn't show up anything :-/
>
> https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&emailassigne
>  d_to1=1&a
> mp;emailtype1=
> substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=2012-04-23&chfieldto=Now&chfield=%5BBug+creation%5D&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
>
> Regards,
>
>
> --
> Wayne Beaton
> The Eclipse Foundation
> Twitter: @waynebeaton
> Explore Eclipse Projects
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Denis Roy]

Why?

On 04/25/2012 03:20 PM, Wayne Beaton wrote:
> IP questions are kept private.
>
> Wayne
>
> On 04/25/2012 02:42 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>> Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
>>
>>> Question is posted.
>> Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search
>> doesn't show up anything :-/
>>
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=
>> substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=2012-04-23&chfieldto=Now&chfield=%5BBug+creation%5D&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>
> -- 
> Wayne Beaton
> The Eclipse Foundation
> Twitter: @waynebeaton
> Explore Eclipse Projects 
>
>
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

IP questions are kept private.

Wayne

On 04/25/2012 02:42 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
> Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
>
>> Question is posted.
> Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search
> doesn't show up anything :-/
>
> https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=2012-04-23&chfieldto=Now&chfield=%5BBug+creation%5D&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
>
> Regards,
>

-- 
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton:

> Question is posted.

Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search
doesn't show up anything :-/

https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=2012-04-23&chfieldto=Now&chfield=%5BBug+creation%5D&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

Regards,

-- 
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"It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
http://blog.pdark.de/
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

I'm just happy to see all this open communication on the Dash dev list.

Wayne

On 04/24/2012 01:23 PM, Andrew Overholt wrote:
>> OK, I'll be the first to point out that you can't *ever* copy code
>> from GPL'd projects, and that GPL isn't OSS. ;)
> Hahahahahaha.
>
> Andrew
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Andrew Overholt]

> OK, I'll be the first to point out that you can't *ever* copy code
> from GPL'd projects, and that GPL isn't OSS. ;)

Hahahahahaha.

Andrew
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Miles Parker]

On 2012-04-24, at 9:21 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:

> 
> Zitat von Wayne Beaton :
> 
>> How is this not open?
> 
> As I said yesterday: It's not open because I can't simply copy code from 
> GPL'd projects or other OSS sources without causing a lot of trouble :-)

OK, I'll be the first to point out that you can't *ever* copy code from GPL'd 
projects, and that GPL isn't OSS. ;)
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Zitat von Wayne Beaton :


How is this not open?


As I said yesterday: It's not open because I can't simply copy code  
from GPL'd projects or other OSS sources without causing a lot of  
trouble :-)


And since we all know human nature, we know it's just a matter of time  
until something will blow up.


I know that you can't change that; but at the same time, I will never  
be happy with legal issues creeping into my work. Try to bear my  
occasional sarcastic comment about this :-)


PS: It took the AROS project three years to select a "good" OSS  
license: We wrote our own ;-) Or rather modified the Mozilla license.  
At college, I took lessons in "Law and Data Privacy". I wrote an Amiga  
OS clone (while Amiga, Inc. was watching unhappily). I need to  
complain about legal stuff once in a while or I won't get 50...


Regards,

--
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Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

Question is posted.

Wayne

On 04/24/2012 05:43 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
> Zitat von Wayne Beaton :
>
>> Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members.
>> Sorry about that.
>
> What have we learned yesterday? "open source" isn't that open after
> all ;-)
>
>> I guess that I'll have to pose the question.
>
> Thanks.
>
>> Can you give me some words to start from?
>
> Sure:
>
> -- cut --
>
> There was a request on the dash-dev mailing list how to handle the
> following situation: Copying code from public sources like Wikipedia,
> Stackoverflow or private blogs.
>
> To limit the scope of the discussion and kind of create a precedent,
> let's start with copying code from Stackoverflow. Stackoverflow.com is
> a site where all kinds of software developers share their knowledge.
>
> According to the rules of the site, all "user contributions licensed
> under cc-wiki with attribution required" (see the bottom of each page
> on http://stackoverflow.com/).
>
> "cc-wiki" means: "You are free to share - to copy, distribute and
> transmit the work -, to remix - to adapt the work - and to make
> commercial use of the work"
> (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/)
>
> "attribution required" means "You must attribute the work in the
> manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that
> suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work)." Details can
> be found in this blog post:
> http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/
>
> The four rules mentioned there apply if you "copy" ("republish this
> content") the whole stackoverflow site - answers, questions, user
> data, everything. They don't make that much sense when just a piece of
> code is copied.
>
> For me, only the second rule makes sense in the context of "using code
> from stackoverflow.com in Eclipse projects": "Hyperlink directly to
> the original question"
>
> I read that as: Add a comment with a link to the place where you found
> the code that you copied/used as a template.
>
> Can you please verify this for any code published on
> stackoverflow.com? My main goal is to get a single all-time approval
> for code so Eclipse developers can use this great resource without
> causing thousands of tiny CQ requests.
>
> If this works well, I'd like to file similar requests for other public
> developer resources like, for example, Wikipedia.
>
> -- cut --
>
> Regards,
>

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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

On 04/24/2012 05:43 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
> Zitat von Wayne Beaton :
>
>> Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members.
>> Sorry about that.
>
> What have we learned yesterday? "open source" isn't that open after
> all ;-)
>
>
Sorry... hot button item.

What is your definition of "open"?

We invite participation in the project. We have a level playing field
for those who want to participate.

We balance that with a well-defined policy for managing intellectual
property.

How is this not open?

Wayne
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Zitat von Wayne Beaton :


Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members.
Sorry about that.


What have we learned yesterday? "open source" isn't that open after all ;-)


I guess that I'll have to pose the question.


Thanks.


Can you give me some words to start from?


Sure:

-- cut --

There was a request on the dash-dev mailing list how to handle the  
following situation: Copying code from public sources like Wikipedia,  
Stackoverflow or private blogs.


To limit the scope of the discussion and kind of create a precedent,  
let's start with copying code from Stackoverflow. Stackoverflow.com is  
a site where all kinds of software developers share their knowledge.


According to the rules of the site, all "user contributions licensed  
under cc-wiki with attribution required" (see the bottom of each page  
on http://stackoverflow.com/).


"cc-wiki" means: "You are free to share - to copy, distribute and  
transmit the work -, to remix - to adapt the work - and to make  
commercial use of the work"  
(https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/)


"attribution required" means "You must attribute the work in the  
manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that  
suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work)." Details can  
be found in this blog post:  
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/


The four rules mentioned there apply if you "copy" ("republish this  
content") the whole stackoverflow site - answers, questions, user  
data, everything. They don't make that much sense when just a piece of  
code is copied.


For me, only the second rule makes sense in the context of "using code  
from stackoverflow.com in Eclipse projects": "Hyperlink directly to  
the original question"


I read that as: Add a comment with a link to the place where you found  
the code that you copied/used as a template.


Can you please verify this for any code published on  
stackoverflow.com? My main goal is to get a single all-time approval  
for code so Eclipse developers can use this great resource without  
causing thousands of tiny CQ requests.


If this works well, I'd like to file similar requests for other public  
developer resources like, for example, Wikipedia.


-- cut --

Regards,

--
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Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members.

Sorry about that.

I guess that I'll have to pose the question. Can you give me some words
to start from?

Thanks,

Wayne

On 04/23/2012 04:01 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
> Am 23.04.2012 21:01, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
>> Good question.
>>
>> Go to the portal, select any project (it doesn't matter) in the "Eclipse
>> Projects" component. Click on the "[pose] a question about general legal
>> issue" option. That'll take you to the right place.
>>
>> (or just go here:
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IP&component=IP_Discussion
>> )
> Thanks a lot for your help! Only, I get nowhere... :-)
>
> When I click "new" in ipzilla, I get "page has moved, go to the portal".
> I did but there is nothing obviously related to CQ or IP processes on
> https://dev.eclipse.org/portal/myfoundation/portal/portal.php.
>
> When I try your link, I get: "Sorry, either the product IP does not
> exist or you aren't authorized to enter a CQ into it." ...
>
> :-P
>
> Regards,
>
>> On 04/23/2012 02:40 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>>> Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
 Sounds like a plan.
>>> Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ
>>> request on ipzilla, right?
>>>
>>> What project should I select? eclipse.platform?
>>>
> How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the
> rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse
> developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was
> just the first one who dared to ask :-)
>>> Regards,
>>>
>> -- 
>> Wayne Beaton
>> The Eclipse Foundation
>> Twitter: @waynebeaton
>> Explore Eclipse Projects 
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
>

-- 
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Twitter: @waynebeaton
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Am 23.04.2012 21:01, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
> Good question.
> 
> Go to the portal, select any project (it doesn't matter) in the "Eclipse
> Projects" component. Click on the "[pose] a question about general legal
> issue" option. That'll take you to the right place.
> 
> (or just go here:
> https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IP&component=IP_Discussion
> )

Thanks a lot for your help! Only, I get nowhere... :-)

When I click "new" in ipzilla, I get "page has moved, go to the portal".
I did but there is nothing obviously related to CQ or IP processes on
https://dev.eclipse.org/portal/myfoundation/portal/portal.php.

When I try your link, I get: "Sorry, either the product IP does not
exist or you aren't authorized to enter a CQ into it." ...

:-P

Regards,

> On 04/23/2012 02:40 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>> Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
>>> Sounds like a plan.
>> Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ
>> request on ipzilla, right?
>>
>> What project should I select? eclipse.platform?
>>
 How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the
 rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse
 developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was
 just the first one who dared to ask :-)
>> Regards,
>>
> 
> -- 
> Wayne Beaton
> The Eclipse Foundation
> Twitter: @waynebeaton
> Explore Eclipse Projects 
> 
> 
> ___
> dash-dev mailing list
> dash-dev@eclipse.org
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev


-- 
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Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

Good question.

Go to the portal, select any project (it doesn't matter) in the "Eclipse
Projects" component. Click on the "[pose] a question about general legal
issue" option. That'll take you to the right place.

(or just go here:
https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IP&component=IP_Discussion
)

Wayne

On 04/23/2012 02:40 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
> Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
>> Sounds like a plan.
> Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ
> request on ipzilla, right?
>
> What project should I select? eclipse.platform?
>
>>> How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the
>>> rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse
>>> developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was
>>> just the first one who dared to ask :-)
> Regards,
>

-- 
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The Eclipse Foundation
Twitter: @waynebeaton
Explore Eclipse Projects 
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
> Sounds like a plan.

Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ
request on ipzilla, right?

What project should I select? eclipse.platform?

>> How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the
>> rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse
>> developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was
>> just the first one who dared to ask :-)

Regards,

-- 
Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
"It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
http://blog.pdark.de/
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Am 23.04.2012 20:08, schrieb Miles Parker:

> That's kind of perverse, given that one
> of the major points of Open Source is to be able to share code with
> one another...



OSS is not about sharing code with just anyone; it's only with anyone
you happen to like!

The main difference to proprietary software is that OSS developers don't
believe that you can buy love. And they especially hate you if you
happen to use a different OSS license than the one which they
painstakingly selected after a long time of suffering (reading legalese,
trying to understand it, telling your shrink that you're not insane -
the rest of the world is and you can prove it, ...)

It's an ego problem: I spent a year to find the perfect license, so
everyone else must be an idiot (proof: they use a different one). And
who would want to share their hard work with fools?



Regards,

-- 
Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
"It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Miles Parker]

Thanks for sticking your neck out, Aaron. :) It would be great to have a 
general solution for such limited cases like this. I think we've all had the 
same dilemma, and I've ended up taking the better safe than sorry route rather 
than try to deal w/ the IP issues. It's usually far easier to just re-implement 
something like this than to go through CQ process, and it's a waste of Eclipse 
resources to have to sift through these cases. That's kind of perverse, given 
that one of the major points of Open Source is to be able to share code with 
one another...

Perhaps eventually it would be nice to have some kind of git based sandbox, 
where people could post code snippets with the blanket representation that 
they've written the code and they have the right to share it..

On 2012-04-23, at 10:47 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:

> Am 23.04.2012 19:24, schrieb Wayne Beaton:
> 
>> Alternatively, I think we can make the case that Stack Overflow
>> contributions are CC-licensed [1] and treat the code similar to a
>> third-party library. However, I believe that license compatibility will
>> be complicated.
> 
> Here is some material to support this:
> http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/
> 
> The text is a bit complicated; the four rules apply if you make a copy
> of the site under a different domain. Since source code isn't HTML, the
> only rule that applies is probably #2 which boils down to "add a link to
> the question/answer where you got that code from"
> 
> How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the
> rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse
> developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was
> just the first one who dared to ask :-)
> 
> Regards,
> 
>> [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
>> 
>> On 04/23/2012 09:25 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I've stumbled over one of these corner cases: I copied 7 lines of code
>>> from stackoverflow.com (http://stackoverflow.com/a/3758880/34088)
>>> 
>>> The code isn't an OSS project, it's not under a specific license and I
>>> feel that it's not worth the effort to run this through the standard IP
>>> process.
>>> 
>>> What are the rules when you copy a code example from a blog? I tried to
>>> find some guidelines in the committer rules and IP process, etc, but
>>> everything there is more suitable for "we want to fork some big OSS
>>> project".
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Wayne Beaton
>> The Eclipse Foundation
>> Twitter: @waynebeaton
>> Explore Eclipse Projects 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> dash-dev mailing list
>> dash-dev@eclipse.org
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
> 
> 
> -- 
> Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
> "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
> Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
> http://blog.pdark.de/
> ___
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> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev

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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

Sounds like a plan.

Wayne

On 04/23/2012 01:47 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>
> How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the
> rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse
> developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was
> just the first one who dared to ask :-)
>
> Regards,
>

-- 
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The Eclipse Foundation
Twitter: @waynebeaton
Explore Eclipse Projects 
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Aaron Digulla]

Am 23.04.2012 19:24, schrieb Wayne Beaton:

> Alternatively, I think we can make the case that Stack Overflow
> contributions are CC-licensed [1] and treat the code similar to a
> third-party library. However, I believe that license compatibility will
> be complicated.

Here is some material to support this:
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/

The text is a bit complicated; the four rules apply if you make a copy
of the site under a different domain. Since source code isn't HTML, the
only rule that applies is probably #2 which boils down to "add a link to
the question/answer where you got that code from"

How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the
rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse
developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was
just the first one who dared to ask :-)

Regards,

> [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
> 
> On 04/23/2012 09:25 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've stumbled over one of these corner cases: I copied 7 lines of code
>> from stackoverflow.com (http://stackoverflow.com/a/3758880/34088)
>>
>> The code isn't an OSS project, it's not under a specific license and I
>> feel that it's not worth the effort to run this through the standard IP
>> process.
>>
>> What are the rules when you copy a code example from a blog? I tried to
>> find some guidelines in the committer rules and IP process, etc, but
>> everything there is more suitable for "we want to fork some big OSS
>> project".
>>
>> Regards,
>>
> 
> -- 
> Wayne Beaton
> The Eclipse Foundation
> Twitter: @waynebeaton
> Explore Eclipse Projects 
> 
> 
> ___
> dash-dev mailing list
> dash-dev@eclipse.org
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev


-- 
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"It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits."
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Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question

[Wayne Beaton]

The copied code is intellectual property and as such is subject to the
Eclipse IP Due Diligence process.

It can only be distributed from eclipse.org (e.g. a source code
repository) if we have clear license from the author to do so.

Yes, it's a small bit of code, but the full IP process still applies.

The easiest way to make this work is to ask the original author to
contribute the code as an attachment on a Bugzilla record with the
following assertions in the comment:

"I authored 100% the content they are contributing; have the rights to
donate the content to EPL; and contribute the content under the EPL."

With this in place, you can add the code into the repository, flip the
"iplog+" flag, and be off to the races.

Alternatively, I think we can make the case that Stack Overflow
contributions are CC-licensed [1] and treat the code similar to a
third-party library. However, I believe that license compatibility will
be complicated.

HTH,

Wayne

[1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

On 04/23/2012 09:25 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've stumbled over one of these corner cases: I copied 7 lines of code
> from stackoverflow.com (http://stackoverflow.com/a/3758880/34088)
>
> The code isn't an OSS project, it's not under a specific license and I
> feel that it's not worth the effort to run this through the standard IP
> process.
>
> What are the rules when you copy a code example from a blog? I tried to
> find some guidelines in the committer rules and IP process, etc, but
> everything there is more suitable for "we want to fork some big OSS
> project".
>
> Regards,
>

-- 
Wayne Beaton
The Eclipse Foundation
Twitter: @waynebeaton
Explore Eclipse Projects 
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