Re: [datameet] Re: How to link Vehicles to Trips for RT-GTFS?

2021-09-07 Thread yas...@gmail.com 
The App in the hands of DM should allow him to assign a vehicle to a 
Schedule. A Schedule is a set of trips on different routes. So bus MH12X001 
is assigned Schedule 30A which has a trip on route 103 at 06:00 am to 
Kothrud. At 07:00 am the bus is scheduled to run on route 102 to Lohgaon. 
As soon as the bus reaches Kothrud at 06:45, it gets assigned to the 07:00 
am trip automatically.
The DM can of course take dynamic decisions based on his experience and 
change the bus, change the driver etc. But capture this digitally.


On Tuesday, 7 September, 2021 at 11:37:57 am UTC+5:30 nikh...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi Yash,
>
> Here is a site where lot of GTFS related solutions are collected together; 
> its maintained by a network of people working in the sector:
> https://github.com/CUTR-at-USF/awesome-transit
>
> Mentioned there is one tool being used by a lot of folks in other 
> countries for figuring out the trip_id and other stuff: 
> http://thetransitclock.org/
> It's not a simple solution. Their mailing list will give a good picture of 
> what all it takes.
>
> What Rigved has mentioned is unfortunately the situation for most bus 
> transit systems, and it's unfortunate seeing that a lot of investment and 
> buzz went into fitting buses with GPS, but they didn't bother looking into 
> how they will update which route number the vehicle is on. 
> It would possible to set it up if one can get a buy-in from the bus agency.
>
> Here's what in my opinion would be a lowest effort way to do it:
> - Make a mobile app for depot managers. Every depot logs in here.
> - Have them input the bus's unique number (usually a serial number painted 
> on the bus, or the license plate number), and the route the bus is going 
> on, the departure time and submit.
> - This information is sent by the app to the backend system where the GPS 
> data is also flowing in
> - Now this backend system is able to attach route_id with each vehicle and 
> change it when the route changes.
> - It'll be possible for backend to determine which trip_id under that 
> route this is on with some programming work put in.
>
> At present, bus depots maintain registers where they write in which bus is 
> going on which route and which driver and conductor. There is also a lot of 
> paperwork later for compiling the data together to submit up the management 
> chain. This intervention would be attractive if this writing business was 
> replaced by digital medium and it also removes most of the paperwork burden.
>
> But at the same time a level of flexibility and autonomy needs to be 
> maintained. You shouldn't have the HQ breathing down their necks and 
> micro-managing things. The Depot managers are weighing in a ton of tacit 
> real world parameters when making decisions about which bus to send on 
> which route, including human requirements of the personnel, street level 
> complications etc. The dynamic decision making process goes a long way in 
> optimizing the transit agency's utilization, efficiency, costs etc and it 
> would be tragic to lose that all in a blind technocratic digitization rush.
>
> Extra: I have a net negative faith in the AI/ML lobby's advertised 
> promises to take care of this stuff. I trust the depot managers far higher 
> and believe working with them will give better results than trying to 
> replace them. But that's just an unqualified personal opinion.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Nikhil VJ
> https://nikhilvj.co.in
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 9:28 AM rigved1...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Yash,
>> Logically, there should ideally be a device in bus/app on mobile where 
>> the conductor/driver manually selects the Trip Id and indicates it is 
>> started. In reality, I have not seen this implemented in any Indian RT-GTFS 
>> feeds. As a result, GPS locations almost never match the trip paths. I have 
>> seen situations where the morning TRIP_ID is carried through entire day 
>> with the bus moving in entire city.
>> If you find a workable solution and implement the feed, please let me 
>> know. A clean RT-GTFS dataset would be goldmine of information. 
>>
>> On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 9:41:19 AM UTC+5:30 yas...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> If we have a GTFS feed and want to set up an RT-GTFS, we would need to 
>>> maintain a mapping between a GPS-fitted vehicle and the corresponding Trips 
>>> it is scheduled to make. The location updates come from a vehicle. The 
>>> Vehicle ID and the latest location is thus known. However, this needs to be 
>>> linked to a Trip so that RT-GTFS shows the status of the Trip. What tools 
>>> are generally used to make this mapping? 
>>>
>>> -Yash
>>>
>> -- 
>> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more 
>> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "datameet" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to

Re: [datameet] Re: How to link Vehicles to Trips for RT-GTFS?

2021-09-07 Thread Nikhil VJ 
Hi Yash,

Here is a site where lot of GTFS related solutions are collected together;
its maintained by a network of people working in the sector:
https://github.com/CUTR-at-USF/awesome-transit

Mentioned there is one tool being used by a lot of folks in other countries
for figuring out the trip_id and other stuff: http://thetransitclock.org/
It's not a simple solution. Their mailing list will give a good picture of
what all it takes.

What Rigved has mentioned is unfortunately the situation for most bus
transit systems, and it's unfortunate seeing that a lot of investment and
buzz went into fitting buses with GPS, but they didn't bother looking into
how they will update which route number the vehicle is on.
It would possible to set it up if one can get a buy-in from the bus agency.

Here's what in my opinion would be a lowest effort way to do it:
- Make a mobile app for depot managers. Every depot logs in here.
- Have them input the bus's unique number (usually a serial number painted
on the bus, or the license plate number), and the route the bus is going
on, the departure time and submit.
- This information is sent by the app to the backend system where the GPS
data is also flowing in
- Now this backend system is able to attach route_id with each vehicle and
change it when the route changes.
- It'll be possible for backend to determine which trip_id under that route
this is on with some programming work put in.

At present, bus depots maintain registers where they write in which bus is
going on which route and which driver and conductor. There is also a lot of
paperwork later for compiling the data together to submit up the management
chain. This intervention would be attractive if this writing business was
replaced by digital medium and it also removes most of the paperwork burden.

But at the same time a level of flexibility and autonomy needs to be
maintained. You shouldn't have the HQ breathing down their necks and
micro-managing things. The Depot managers are weighing in a ton of tacit
real world parameters when making decisions about which bus to send on
which route, including human requirements of the personnel, street level
complications etc. The dynamic decision making process goes a long way in
optimizing the transit agency's utilization, efficiency, costs etc and it
would be tragic to lose that all in a blind technocratic digitization rush.

Extra: I have a net negative faith in the AI/ML lobby's advertised promises
to take care of this stuff. I trust the depot managers far higher and
believe working with them will give better results than trying to replace
them. But that's just an unqualified personal opinion.

--
Cheers,
Nikhil VJ
https://nikhilvj.co.in


On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 9:28 AM rigved1...@gmail.com <
rigved12she...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Yash,
> Logically, there should ideally be a device in bus/app on mobile where the
> conductor/driver manually selects the Trip Id and indicates it is started.
> In reality, I have not seen this implemented in any Indian RT-GTFS feeds.
> As a result, GPS locations almost never match the trip paths. I have seen
> situations where the morning TRIP_ID is carried through entire day with the
> bus moving in entire city.
> If you find a workable solution and implement the feed, please let me
> know. A clean RT-GTFS dataset would be goldmine of information.
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 9:41:19 AM UTC+5:30 yas...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If we have a GTFS feed and want to set up an RT-GTFS, we would need to
>> maintain a mapping between a GPS-fitted vehicle and the corresponding Trips
>> it is scheduled to make. The location updates come from a vehicle. The
>> Vehicle ID and the latest location is thus known. However, this needs to be
>> linked to a Trip so that RT-GTFS shows the status of the Trip. What tools
>> are generally used to make this mapping?
>>
>> -Yash
>>
> --
> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "datameet" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datameet/b2056a46-9aac-46bb-b570-85551c0dc4f7n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[datameet] Re: How to link Vehicles to Trips for RT-GTFS?

2021-09-06 Thread yas...@gmail.com 
Many bus agencies must be providing real time data already. How does it 
work in their case?

-Yash

On Tuesday, 7 September, 2021 at 9:28:26 am UTC+5:30 rigved1...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi Yash,
> Logically, there should ideally be a device in bus/app on mobile where the 
> conductor/driver manually selects the Trip Id and indicates it is started. 
> In reality, I have not seen this implemented in any Indian RT-GTFS feeds. 
> As a result, GPS locations almost never match the trip paths. I have seen 
> situations where the morning TRIP_ID is carried through entire day with the 
> bus moving in entire city.
> If you find a workable solution and implement the feed, please let me 
> know. A clean RT-GTFS dataset would be goldmine of information. 
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 9:41:19 AM UTC+5:30 yas...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If we have a GTFS feed and want to set up an RT-GTFS, we would need to 
>> maintain a mapping between a GPS-fitted vehicle and the corresponding Trips 
>> it is scheduled to make. The location updates come from a vehicle. The 
>> Vehicle ID and the latest location is thus known. However, this needs to be 
>> linked to a Trip so that RT-GTFS shows the status of the Trip. What tools 
>> are generally used to make this mapping? 
>>
>> -Yash
>>
>

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us by visiting http://datameet.org
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[datameet] Re: How to link Vehicles to Trips for RT-GTFS?

2021-09-06 Thread rigved1...@gmail.com 
Hi Yash,
Logically, there should ideally be a device in bus/app on mobile where the 
conductor/driver manually selects the Trip Id and indicates it is started. 
In reality, I have not seen this implemented in any Indian RT-GTFS feeds. 
As a result, GPS locations almost never match the trip paths. I have seen 
situations where the morning TRIP_ID is carried through entire day with the 
bus moving in entire city.
If you find a workable solution and implement the feed, please let me know. 
A clean RT-GTFS dataset would be goldmine of information. 

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 9:41:19 AM UTC+5:30 yas...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> If we have a GTFS feed and want to set up an RT-GTFS, we would need to 
> maintain a mapping between a GPS-fitted vehicle and the corresponding Trips 
> it is scheduled to make. The location updates come from a vehicle. The 
> Vehicle ID and the latest location is thus known. However, this needs to be 
> linked to a Trip so that RT-GTFS shows the status of the Trip. What tools 
> are generally used to make this mapping? 
>
> -Yash
>

-- 
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us by visiting http://datameet.org
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