Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[David Hunt]

I am now running a system, installed using this mini iso.  Thanks for 
the sound board chooser fix; it works for my troublesome situation.  
Others should probsbly test; hope what fixed sound for me didn't break 
it for someone else.




Thanks,



David





On 11/13/2017 05:34 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:

It seems I have found some issues with the Debian installer soundboard
selector.

Re: [orca-list] Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[David Hunt]

Why did you post my message back to me and torca list?  LOL.  How you 
be?  BTW, phone back, but pls don't call now.




Cheers,



D.






On 11/13/2017 11:20 PM, David Hunt wrote:
I booted the new image on a machine with which the sound chooser does 
not work on the released images.  I'm happy to report, the sound board 
selector works on this one, though I did not yet do a full install; 
that's tomorrow.




Thanks!



-David






On 11/13/2017 05:34 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:

Hello,

It seems I have found some issues with the Debian installer soundboard
selector.

Could people please try this image:

https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/mini.iso

Thanks,
Samuel


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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: 
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[David Hunt]

I booted the new image on a machine with which the sound chooser does 
not work on the released images.  I'm happy to report, the sound board 
selector works on this one, though I did not yet do a full install; 
that's tomorrow.




Thanks!



-David






On 11/13/2017 05:34 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:

Hello,

It seems I have found some issues with the Debian installer soundboard
selector.

Could people please try this image:

https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/mini.iso

Thanks,
Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

It seems I have found some issues with the Debian installer soundboard
selector.

Could people please try this image:

https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/mini.iso

Thanks,
Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Samuel Thibault, on mar. 24 oct. 2017 01:23:41 +0200, wrote:
> Samuel Thibault, on dim. 22 oct. 2017 15:43:33 +0200, wrote:
> > am_d...@fastmail.fm, on ven. 20 oct. 2017 23:46:48 -0400, wrote:
> > > I was able to use the arch asound.conf to do the install once I coppied
> > > it to the running debian installer and restarted espeakup
> > 
> > Ok.  Could you send it to us so we can have a look?
> 
> Could you try to remove the
> 
>   type hw
> 
> lines from it to see whether it still works without them?

Mmm, forget about that one.

> Could you also try to remove the
> 
> ctl.!default {
>...
> }
> 
> paragraph to see whether it still works without it?

This one could be useful to check.


Also, I'd really like to see the rest of debugging information, the
output of

  amixer scontrols -d 0
  amixer scontrols -d 1

notably.

Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Samuel Thibault, on dim. 22 oct. 2017 15:43:33 +0200, wrote:
> am_d...@fastmail.fm, on ven. 20 oct. 2017 23:46:48 -0400, wrote:
> > I was able to use the arch asound.conf to do the install once I coppied
> > it to the running debian installer and restarted espeakup
> 
> Ok.  Could you send it to us so we can have a look?

Could you try to remove the

  type hw

lines from it to see whether it still works without them?

Could you also try to remove the

ctl.!default {
   ...
}

paragraph to see whether it still works without it?

Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

am_d...@fastmail.fm, on ven. 20 oct. 2017 23:46:48 -0400, wrote:
> I was able to use the arch asound.conf to do the install once I coppied
> it to the running debian installer and restarted espeakup

Ok.  Could you send it to us so we can have a look?

> The card that emits sound is the one called   1 [PCH]:
> HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
[...]
> cat /proc/asound/cards
>   0 [HDMI   ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDMI
>HDA Intel HDMI at 0xf121 irq 50
>   1 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
>HDA Intel PCH at 0xf1214000 irq 49
> 29 [ThinkPadEC ]: ThinkPad EC - ThinkPad Console Audio Control
>ThinkPad Console Audio Control at EC reg 0x30, fw 
> unknown

Ok so nothing particular to my eye, except that the HDMI card is the
first and there is a card numbered 29, but in principle that shouldn't
harm for card 1 to work.

> cat /sys/class/sound/card*/id
> HDMI
> PCH
> ThinkPadEC

Could you also run

echo /sys/class/sound/card*/id


Never remove any detail from what we ask for, we never know what can be
useful to know, so too much information is never a bad thing.

Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[am_dxer]

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 07:24 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> am_d...@fastmail.fm, on mar. 10 oct. 2017 10:32:19 -0400, wrote:
> > I have found that for some reason the Debian sound board selector prompt
> > does not work on some Broadwell machines.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> > I copied the asound.conf generated by the Arch Linux sound board
> > selector to a flash drive and used that to do my Debian install.
> 
> And did it work?
> 
I was able to use the arch asound.conf to do the install once I coppied
it to the running debian installer and restarted espeakup
The card that emits sound is the one called   1 [PCH]:
HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
> > It would be interesting to know what Arch is doing differently.
> 
> I had a look at the scripts Jude pointed to, they use very different
> approaches to enumerating devices, so just comparing won't provide
> hints.
> 
> Could you report what is requested on
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility
> 
> from your Broadwell system so we have better insight as to what it looks
> like in there?
cat /proc/asound/cards
  0 [HDMI   ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDMI
   HDA Intel HDMI at 0xf121 irq 50
  1 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
   HDA Intel PCH at 0xf1214000 irq 49
29 [ThinkPadEC ]: ThinkPad EC - ThinkPad Console Audio Control
   ThinkPad Console Audio Control at EC reg 0x30, fw 
unknown

cat /sys/class/sound/card*/id
HDMI
PCH
ThinkPadEC
> 
> Without such kind of information, I'm just unable to do anything about
> the issue.
> 
> Samuel
> 

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Samuel Thibault, on ven. 13 oct. 2017 01:24:40 +0200, wrote:
> > It would be interesting to know what Arch is doing differently.
> 
> I had a look at the scripts Jude pointed to,

Ah, sorry, memory is never a good friend, it's actually you who
pointed to the scripts :)

Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

am_d...@fastmail.fm, on mar. 10 oct. 2017 10:32:19 -0400, wrote:
> I have found that for some reason the Debian sound board selector prompt
> does not work on some Broadwell machines.

Ok.

> I copied the asound.conf generated by the Arch Linux sound board
> selector to a flash drive and used that to do my Debian install.

And did it work?

> It would be interesting to know what Arch is doing differently.

I had a look at the scripts Jude pointed to, they use very different
approaches to enumerating devices, so just comparing won't provide
hints.

Could you report what is requested on

https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility

from your Broadwell system so we have better insight as to what it looks
like in there?

Without such kind of information, I'm just unable to do anything about
the issue.

Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Jude DaShiell]

Is it possible to internally disconnect the hdmi card temporarily to 
test if debian then comes up talking?


On Tue, 10 Oct 2017, am_d...@fastmail.fm wrote:


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:14:01
From: am_d...@fastmail.fm
To: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility
Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:14:19 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org



On Tue, Oct 10, 2017, at 10:32 AM, am_d...@fastmail.fm wrote:



On Wed, Oct 4, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:

Hello,

Dave Hunt, on mer. 04 oct. 2017 09:56:56 -0400, wrote:

I am trying to get software speech to work on the Stretch net installer, on
a machine having multiple sound output possibilities.  When typing 's', and
pressing enter, at the boot prompt/beep, I am expecting spoken prompts for
the installer, but get silence, except for the beeping boot prompt.


Normally the debian installer loops over all sound boards it finds, to
prompt the user for which one he wants to use. If that doesn't work it
means there is a problem with the driver of your board. It's no use
trying to force using a given device: it already does so for each board
which was discovered.

So unfortunately it's most probably a bug in sound drivers, and more
information is needed to determine how to fix it, see
https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility
for the amixer commands to get output of, and the content of
/proc/asound/cards. Perhaps you can do so from some other image with
which sound does work, be it knoppix adriane or such.

Samuel


I have found that for some reason the Debian sound board selector prompt
does not work on some Broadwell machines. Dave has a Broadwell machine
so I think this might be the problem. It seems to default to the HDMI
output and not loop to the Intel HD Audio card connected to the internal
speakers. I am not sure what is different, however, the sound board
selector on the Arch Linux live cd works with these Broadwell machines.
I copied the asound.conf generated by the Arch Linux sound board
selector to a flash drive and used that to do my Debian install. I
copied it to /etc and then restarted the espeakup process from one of
the extra terminals available when the Debian installer was booted. I
used a braille display for this task. It would be interesting to know
what Arch is doing differently. I don't know a lot about Alsa but maybe
someone with more knowledge in this area might have some ideas.


The script Arch Linux is using for picking cards can be found here.
Maybe someone who understands Alsa might be able to help with knowing
what this script and the one in Debian are doing differently.
https://notabug.org/TalkingArch/TalkingArch/src/master/configs/talking-inst/airootfs/usr/bin/pick-a-card




--

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Jude DaShiell]

Could it be debian is hanging on an hdmi card?  afaik --hdmi=no is not a 
valid debian boot parameter.


On Tue, 10 Oct 2017, am_d...@fastmail.fm wrote:


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:14:01
From: am_d...@fastmail.fm
To: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility
Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:14:19 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org



On Tue, Oct 10, 2017, at 10:32 AM, am_d...@fastmail.fm wrote:



On Wed, Oct 4, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:

Hello,

Dave Hunt, on mer. 04 oct. 2017 09:56:56 -0400, wrote:

I am trying to get software speech to work on the Stretch net installer, on
a machine having multiple sound output possibilities.  When typing 's', and
pressing enter, at the boot prompt/beep, I am expecting spoken prompts for
the installer, but get silence, except for the beeping boot prompt.


Normally the debian installer loops over all sound boards it finds, to
prompt the user for which one he wants to use. If that doesn't work it
means there is a problem with the driver of your board. It's no use
trying to force using a given device: it already does so for each board
which was discovered.

So unfortunately it's most probably a bug in sound drivers, and more
information is needed to determine how to fix it, see
https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility
for the amixer commands to get output of, and the content of
/proc/asound/cards. Perhaps you can do so from some other image with
which sound does work, be it knoppix adriane or such.

Samuel


I have found that for some reason the Debian sound board selector prompt
does not work on some Broadwell machines. Dave has a Broadwell machine
so I think this might be the problem. It seems to default to the HDMI
output and not loop to the Intel HD Audio card connected to the internal
speakers. I am not sure what is different, however, the sound board
selector on the Arch Linux live cd works with these Broadwell machines.
I copied the asound.conf generated by the Arch Linux sound board
selector to a flash drive and used that to do my Debian install. I
copied it to /etc and then restarted the espeakup process from one of
the extra terminals available when the Debian installer was booted. I
used a braille display for this task. It would be interesting to know
what Arch is doing differently. I don't know a lot about Alsa but maybe
someone with more knowledge in this area might have some ideas.


The script Arch Linux is using for picking cards can be found here.
Maybe someone who understands Alsa might be able to help with knowing
what this script and the one in Debian are doing differently.
https://notabug.org/TalkingArch/TalkingArch/src/master/configs/talking-inst/airootfs/usr/bin/pick-a-card




--

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[am_dxer]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017, at 10:32 AM, am_d...@fastmail.fm wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Dave Hunt, on mer. 04 oct. 2017 09:56:56 -0400, wrote:
> > > I am trying to get software speech to work on the Stretch net installer, 
> > > on
> > > a machine having multiple sound output possibilities.  When typing 's', 
> > > and
> > > pressing enter, at the boot prompt/beep, I am expecting spoken prompts for
> > > the installer, but get silence, except for the beeping boot prompt.
> > 
> > Normally the debian installer loops over all sound boards it finds, to
> > prompt the user for which one he wants to use. If that doesn't work it
> > means there is a problem with the driver of your board. It's no use
> > trying to force using a given device: it already does so for each board
> > which was discovered.
> > 
> > So unfortunately it's most probably a bug in sound drivers, and more
> > information is needed to determine how to fix it, see
> > https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility
> > for the amixer commands to get output of, and the content of
> > /proc/asound/cards. Perhaps you can do so from some other image with
> > which sound does work, be it knoppix adriane or such.
> > 
> > Samuel
> > 
> I have found that for some reason the Debian sound board selector prompt
> does not work on some Broadwell machines. Dave has a Broadwell machine
> so I think this might be the problem. It seems to default to the HDMI
> output and not loop to the Intel HD Audio card connected to the internal
> speakers. I am not sure what is different, however, the sound board
> selector on the Arch Linux live cd works with these Broadwell machines.
> I copied the asound.conf generated by the Arch Linux sound board
> selector to a flash drive and used that to do my Debian install. I
> copied it to /etc and then restarted the espeakup process from one of
> the extra terminals available when the Debian installer was booted. I
> used a braille display for this task. It would be interesting to know
> what Arch is doing differently. I don't know a lot about Alsa but maybe
> someone with more knowledge in this area might have some ideas.
> 
The script Arch Linux is using for picking cards can be found here.
Maybe someone who understands Alsa might be able to help with knowing
what this script and the one in Debian are doing differently.
https://notabug.org/TalkingArch/TalkingArch/src/master/configs/talking-inst/airootfs/usr/bin/pick-a-card

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[am_dxer]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Dave Hunt, on mer. 04 oct. 2017 09:56:56 -0400, wrote:
> > I am trying to get software speech to work on the Stretch net installer, on
> > a machine having multiple sound output possibilities.  When typing 's', and
> > pressing enter, at the boot prompt/beep, I am expecting spoken prompts for
> > the installer, but get silence, except for the beeping boot prompt.
> 
> Normally the debian installer loops over all sound boards it finds, to
> prompt the user for which one he wants to use. If that doesn't work it
> means there is a problem with the driver of your board. It's no use
> trying to force using a given device: it already does so for each board
> which was discovered.
> 
> So unfortunately it's most probably a bug in sound drivers, and more
> information is needed to determine how to fix it, see
> https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility
> for the amixer commands to get output of, and the content of
> /proc/asound/cards. Perhaps you can do so from some other image with
> which sound does work, be it knoppix adriane or such.
> 
> Samuel
> 
I have found that for some reason the Debian sound board selector prompt
does not work on some Broadwell machines. Dave has a Broadwell machine
so I think this might be the problem. It seems to default to the HDMI
output and not loop to the Intel HD Audio card connected to the internal
speakers. I am not sure what is different, however, the sound board
selector on the Arch Linux live cd works with these Broadwell machines.
I copied the asound.conf generated by the Arch Linux sound board
selector to a flash drive and used that to do my Debian install. I
copied it to /etc and then restarted the espeakup process from one of
the extra terminals available when the Debian installer was booted. I
used a braille display for this task. It would be interesting to know
what Arch is doing differently. I don't know a lot about Alsa but maybe
someone with more knowledge in this area might have some ideas.

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Cyril Brulebois]

Samuel Thibault  (2017-10-04):
> Ok, but with which driver? Perhaps we just lack it on the installer CD.

Yes, that's the crucial question.

FWIW, stretch's kernel is configured this way for the sound-modules udeb:
| # Include sound drivers by default
| sound/**
| 
| # Exclude any core/shared modules that aren't pulled in by dependencies
| sound/core/** -
| sound/drivers/** -
| sound/i2c/** -
| 
| # Exclude synthesiser drivers
| snd-adlib -
| sound/**-synth -
| 
| # Exclude soft-modem drivers
| sound/**-modem -
| snd-intel8x0m -

so no hardcoded list here, which might be missing one or two drivers.
 

KiBi.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Dave Hunt, on mer. 04 oct. 2017 11:23:50 -0400, wrote:
> I get sound on live images having a gui and pulse/alsa audio, so, the board
> works.

Ok, but with which driver? Perhaps we just lack it on the installer CD.

> Maybe I'm getting prompted and just don't know it?

It'd still mean that the output doesn't work for some reason, so it
won't help :)

> I'll boot a Stretch live cd and do as suggested in the wiki.

Thanks.

> There seems to be no way to install from the official Mate live cd; is
> this correct?

AFAIK there is, perhaps it's hidden somewhere in menus. Ask Debian Live
people, they know :)

Samuel

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Dave Hunt]

Hello and thanks for reply!


I get sound on live images having a gui and pulse/alsa audio, so, the 
board works.  Maybe I'm getting prompted and just don't know it?  The 
other sound output possibility is hdmi.  I'll boot a Stretch live cd and 
do as suggested in the wiki.  There seems to be no way to install from 
the official Mate live cd; is this correct?




Thanks and best regards,




Dave  Hunt






On 10/04/2017 10:08 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:

Normally the debian installer loops over all sound boards it finds, to
prompt the user for which one he wants to use. If that doesn't work it
means there is a problem with the driver of your board. It's no use
trying to force using a given device: it already does so for each board

Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Dave Hunt]

I am trying to get software speech to work on the Stretch net installer, 
on a machine having multiple sound output possibilities.  When typing 
's', and pressing enter, at the boot prompt/beep, I am expecting spoken 
prompts for the installer, but get silence, except for the beeping boot 
prompt.  Can I pass boot parameter(s) to force the installer to use my 
alsa sound device for this output?



I am blind, and need the speech to make the installer accessible; I've 
no access to a braille display.




Thanks,



Daid

Re: Sound Parameters on Net Installer? Need speech for accessibility

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

Dave Hunt, on mer. 04 oct. 2017 09:56:56 -0400, wrote:
> I am trying to get software speech to work on the Stretch net installer, on
> a machine having multiple sound output possibilities.  When typing 's', and
> pressing enter, at the boot prompt/beep, I am expecting spoken prompts for
> the installer, but get silence, except for the beeping boot prompt.

Normally the debian installer loops over all sound boards it finds, to
prompt the user for which one he wants to use. If that doesn't work it
means there is a problem with the driver of your board. It's no use
trying to force using a given device: it already does so for each board
which was discovered.

So unfortunately it's most probably a bug in sound drivers, and more
information is needed to determine how to fix it, see
https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility
for the amixer commands to get output of, and the content of
/proc/asound/cards. Perhaps you can do so from some other image with
which sound does work, be it knoppix adriane or such.

Samuel