Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Not quite that bad. There is no need for the xserver for example, as the 32-bit processes have no problem talking to the 64-bit server. No problem is an overstatement. Normal things work well, but 3D acceleration doesn't work if a 32-bit prgram is connected to a 64-bit X-server. This means for instance that I can't play gl-117 because the 64-bit version segfaults and the 32-bit version has no 3D acceleration... Gian -- Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! Satte Provisionen für GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Gian Domeni Calgeer wrote: Not quite that bad. There is no need for the xserver for example, as the 32-bit processes have no problem talking to the 64-bit server. No problem is an overstatement. Normal things work well, but 3D acceleration doesn't work if a 32-bit prgram is connected to a 64-bit X-server. This means for instance that I can't play gl-117 because the 64-bit version segfaults and the 32-bit version has no 3D acceleration... That's not necessarily true. I don't know what kind of video setup you have, but with an nvidia card and the nvidia-glx-ia32 package I am able to use 32-bit programs with 3-D acceleration just fine -- either in a chroot or with ia32-libs. -Corey -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Am Samstag 28 Januar 2006 23:20 schrieb Corey Hickey: Gian Domeni Calgeer wrote: Not quite that bad. There is no need for the xserver for example, as the 32-bit processes have no problem talking to the 64-bit server. No problem is an overstatement. Normal things work well, but 3D acceleration doesn't work if a 32-bit prgram is connected to a 64-bit X-server. This means for instance that I can't play gl-117 because the 64-bit version segfaults and the 32-bit version has no 3D acceleration... That's not necessarily true. I don't know what kind of video setup you have, but with an nvidia card and the nvidia-glx-ia32 package I am able to use 32-bit programs with 3-D acceleration just fine -- either in a chroot or with ia32-libs. -Corey I'm using an Asus Radeon 9250 GE with the free Radeon driver from Tungsten Graphics and X.org 6.9. As far as I remeber I read somewhere that this bug will be fixed soon so maybe I should upgrade my 32-bit system. Gian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Am Samstag 28 Januar 2006 23:20 schrieb Corey Hickey: Gian Domeni Calgeer wrote: Not quite that bad. There is no need for the xserver for example, as the 32-bit processes have no problem talking to the 64-bit server. No problem is an overstatement. Normal things work well, but 3D acceleration doesn't work if a 32-bit prgram is connected to a 64-bit X-server. This means for instance that I can't play gl-117 because the 64-bit version segfaults and the 32-bit version has no 3D acceleration... That's not necessarily true. I don't know what kind of video setup you have, but with an nvidia card and the nvidia-glx-ia32 package I am able to use 32-bit programs with 3-D acceleration just fine -- either in a chroot or with ia32-libs. -Corey Ah yes, you're right. I just had to update a few libraries, now it works. Gian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Thomas Steffen wrote: On 1/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, as I understand it, the following stuff would need to go into the 32-bit chroot (assuming one wants/needs these things): - Sun's J2RE - OpenOffice - Flash - RealPlayer/Helix/whatever - win32codecs + other misc A/V codecs one might scrounge up elsewhere - Any web browser that you want to be able to use Java/Flash/embedded AV stuff in - the Acrobat Reader - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them Is that correct? Anything I'm missing? Don't forget all the dependencies that all pulled in by these apps. You might end up with nearly a typical Linux installation. Not quite that bad. There is no need for the xserver for example, as the 32-bit processes have no problem talking to the 64-bit server. And of course the chroot don't need any utilities, bootup scripts, window managers, printing subsystem, login software . . . Most of the dependencies are libraries. You could end up with a sizable chunk of those though. Also consider 64-bit equivalents. CD burning can be done in 64-bit. Frontend software can always be 64-bit even if it controls a 32-bit program doing the work. (Browser+plugin is different, as the plugin isn't a freestanding program. It links into the browser.) Adobe acrobat has a 64-bit alternative in xpdf. Xpdf sure looks different - maybe it isn't a perfect replacement - but it is fine for reading and printing pdf documents. 32-bit java is also something you may be able to do without. 64-bit java is fine for all non-browser use - but of course there is no plugin for mozilla. For java in a 64-bit webbrowser, use 64-bit konqueror and 64-bit java 1.5.0-4 from Sun. It passes the test at http://www.java.com/en/download/help/testvm.xml, and works with java games at www.darkfish.com. I have not been able to use it for internet banks that use java, but only a stupid bank forces the customers like that - there are other banks! Some people need openoffice, but there are certainly good alternatives. I use lyx for writing (better typography and much faster) gnumeric for spreadsheets (much faster, and just as excel-compatible) and abiword (much faster) when I need to exchange something word-compatible with others. Helge Hafting -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 03:39:09AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi; thanks for your reply. No need to cc me; I read the list. Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 05:34:13AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, as I understand it, the following stuff would need to go into the 32-bit chroot (assuming one wants/needs these things): - Sun's J2RE There is 64bit java as far as I know. Not sure about browser plugins. Heh. I had assumed that Sun didn't have an AMD64 version out; but I just went and looked, and there it is. Thanks for the tip. You forgot I guess that Sun sells tons and tons of these machines now, so amd64 is likely to be well supported by their software. Cheers, a -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 03:27:48AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. I'd read elsewhere that the AMD64 cdrdao was buggy, and the patch to fix the bugs wasn't in either Sarge or Etch yet. I guess that's out-of-date info. It is in 'stinky-pete' archive though since the patch is trivial and the package maintainer has no valid excuse for having kept it out. :) At least that is my point of view on the cdrdao problems. I haven't used it much but it seemed to work here. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
On 1/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, as I understand it, the following stuff would need to go into the 32-bit chroot (assuming one wants/needs these things): - Sun's J2RE - OpenOffice - Flash - RealPlayer/Helix/whatever - win32codecs + other misc A/V codecs one might scrounge up elsewhere - Any web browser that you want to be able to use Java/Flash/embedded AV stuff in - the Acrobat Reader - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them Is that correct? Anything I'm missing? Don't forget all the dependencies that all pulled in by these apps. You might end up with nearly a typical Linux installation. How much space would all that take? While you can probably fit it into 1 GB if you have too, I would stay on the safe side and use at least 4 GB. Assuming one were to put the chroot in its own partition, how much space should be allocated to that partition? If you make it a separate partition, I would consider making it a full Linux installation. That gives you a backup in case something gets screwed up. If you're using an AMD64 desktop, how much space are you using in the chroot? Personally, I don't like having too many partitions around. I have 30 GB for the x64 system, and 120 GB for my data and the i386 system. If you want to have a bit more orderly, you might use a separate partition for i386, and another one for swap. Thomas
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
- cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them These and k3b all work on amd64. Best, Gilles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
On 23 Jan 2006, 05:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them Huh? I'm using them every day on my amd64 system. And xcdroast too :) -- @,@ Radio Dissident [`-'] Frattaglie rock ed altre perversioni --- http://radiodissident.blogspot.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 05:34:13AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, as I understand it, the following stuff would need to go into the 32-bit chroot (assuming one wants/needs these things): - Sun's J2RE There is 64bit java as far as I know. Not sure about browser plugins. - OpenOffice Yeah even 2.0.1 doesn't quite seem to work on amd64 yet, although it is getting closer now. - Flash I wonder how close gnash is to working. - RealPlayer/Helix/whatever Well yeah, that's a codec problem as below. - win32codecs + other misc A/V codecs one might scrounge up elsewhere Yeah can't do anything there until w64 gets codecs. - Any web browser that you want to be able to use Java/Flash/embedded AV stuff in - the Acrobat Reader Sure, for those files xpdf can't view. - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them No reason. Those work fine on amd64. Is that correct? Anything I'm missing? How much space would all that take? Assuming one were to put the chroot in its own partition, how much space should be allocated to that partition? If you're using an AMD64 desktop, how much space are you using in the chroot? chroot can just be a directory. No need for a partition. Sure is simpler. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Gilles wrote: - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them These and k3b all work on amd64. Thanks for the info. I'd seen a few webpages (such as http://desktux.xs4all.nl/tips/amd64.php ) that indicated there were serious bugs in the AMD64 version that hadn't yet been patched in etch. Perhaps they're out of date. -c -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
mtms wrote: On 23 Jan 2006, 05:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them Huh? I'm using them every day on my amd64 system. And xcdroast too :) Thanks. I'd read elsewhere that the AMD64 cdrdao was buggy, and the patch to fix the bugs wasn't in either Sarge or Etch yet. I guess that's out-of-date info. -c -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Hi; thanks for your reply. No need to cc me; I read the list. Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 05:34:13AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, as I understand it, the following stuff would need to go into the 32-bit chroot (assuming one wants/needs these things): - Sun's J2RE There is 64bit java as far as I know. Not sure about browser plugins. Heh. I had assumed that Sun didn't have an AMD64 version out; but I just went and looked, and there it is. Thanks for the tip. - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them No reason. Those work fine on amd64. Thanks. As I mentioned in other replies, I'd read on a few pages that cdrdao had significant bugs under AMD64, that a patch existed to fix those bugs, but that the Sarge and Etch versions hadn't yet been patched. Presumably, re: Etch, that info is just out of date? How much space would all that take? Assuming one were to put the chroot in its own partition, how much space should be allocated to that partition? If you're using an AMD64 desktop, how much space are you using in the chroot? chroot can just be a directory. No need for a partition. Sure is simpler. Yeah; but then the question becomes where to put it (i.e. in what existing partition to include it). The HOWTO suggests /var; but /var on this box could fluctuate strongly in disk space used. I want to avoid any issues if /var fills up. And at any rate, even if I do just put it in a subdir rather than its own full-fledged partition, I still need a vague idea of how much space the stuff in the chroot will take up, so that I can allocate enough space to the larger partition (that the chroot subdir will end up a part of) for both the chroot and its other contents. Cheers, -c -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
I don't know if cdrdao is still with problems but some packages still with bugs and patches available are in: deb http://amd64.debian.net/debian stinkypete main contrib non-free deb-src http://amd64.debian.net/debian stinkypete main contrib non-free On 1/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi; thanks for your reply. No need to cc me; I read the list. Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 05:34:13AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, as I understand it, the following stuff would need to go into the 32-bit chroot (assuming one wants/needs these things): - Sun's J2RE There is 64bit java as far as I know. Not sure about browser plugins. Heh. I had assumed that Sun didn't have an AMD64 version out; but I just went and looked, and there it is. Thanks for the tip. - cdrecord/cdrdao plus whatever front end you're using to call them No reason. Those work fine on amd64. Thanks. As I mentioned in other replies, I'd read on a few pages that cdrdao had significant bugs under AMD64, that a patch existed to fix those bugs, but that the Sarge and Etch versions hadn't yet been patched. Presumably, re: Etch, that info is just out of date? How much space would all that take? Assuming one were to put the chroot in its own partition, how much space should be allocated to that partition? If you're using an AMD64 desktop, how much space are you using in the chroot? chroot can just be a directory. No need for a partition. Sure is simpler. Yeah; but then the question becomes where to put it (i.e. in what existing partition to include it). The HOWTO suggests /var; but /var on this box could fluctuate strongly in disk space used. I want to avoid any issues if /var fills up. And at any rate, even if I do just put it in a subdir rather than its own full-fledged partition, I still need a vague idea of how much space the stuff in the chroot will take up, so that I can allocate enough space to the larger partition (that the chroot subdir will end up a part of) for both the chroot and its other contents. Cheers, -c -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Engañarse por amor es el engaño más terrible; es una pérdida eterna para la que no hay compensación ni en el tiempo ni en la eternidad. Kierkegaard Jaime Ochoa Malagón Integrated Technology Tel: (55) 52 54 26 10
Re: How big will the 32-bit chroot end up being? What goes in these days?
Hi there, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the info. I'd seen a few webpages (such as http://desktux.xs4all.nl/tips/amd64.php ) that indicated there were serious bugs in the AMD64 version that hadn't yet been patched in etch. Perhaps they're out of date. I admit, for Etch that info is outdated. I will correct that soon (meaning right now). Greets, Jens -- http://desktux.xs4all.nl/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
