Re: Contacting Debian Boot team
Hi Bjørn, Am Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 01:18:52PM +0200 schrieb Bjørn Mork: > > I have no hardware to try this on, Same here. I'm not seeking any hardware actively. I simply imagine that I want to buy some non-Intel/AMD based laptop which somehow behaves like my normal work-horse without restrictions. > but don't think Windows is strictly > required. None of the usual tools liked the self-extracting exe, but it > extracted fine under Wine on x86. The archive contains instructions on > how to create a bootable USB stick with an EFI application and the new > firmware image. Nothing there you must have or use Windows for. Just > create the USB stick and boot from it. > > Additional fun fact - their Bootaa64.efi application includes this string: > > > /mnt/c/Ubuntu/LenovoTools-GCC-BuildEnv/Scripts/Ubuntu/Build/LenovoToolsPkg/RELEASE_GCC5/AARCH64/ShellPkg/Application/Shell/Shell/DEBUG/Shell.dll > > So you can do without Windows, but they can't do without Debian :-) ;-P > > Argh, I need Windows to install Linux. That's IMHO a no-go. I do not > > buy and hardware which has Windows preinstalled / needs Windows for > > whatever purpose. Do you think that this could/should be a topic to > > talk about with some Lenovo representative at DebConf? > > Well, buying this thing without Windows is still going to be hard... I'm seeking for more such things I could talk about the Lenovo representative at DebConf. ;-) Kind regards Andreas. -- https://fam-tille.de
Re: Contacting Debian Boot team
Hi Emanuele,
finally I've found some time to follow your links.
Am Fri, Jun 07, 2024 at 09:29:18AM +0200 schrieb Emanuele Rocca:
>
> Trixie runs fine on it, though there are some rough edges. Full details
> on https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/X13s
Two things somehow would prevent me from buying:
Hibernation: {X} Unsupported(No Driver)
Sleep / Suspend: /!\ (works, but drains battery in a day)
Is there any progress to let Hibernate / Suspend working properly?
"Given that the next step needs Windows anyways, we're documenting the Windows
option here."
Argh, I need Windows to install Linux. That's IMHO a no-go. I do not
buy and hardware which has Windows preinstalled / needs Windows for
whatever purpose. Do you think that this could/should be a topic to
talk about with some Lenovo representative at DebConf?
> For details of the work done on the kernel/installer/cd/live images:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/gb/2023/MiniDebConfCambridge/Rocca
Thanks a lot for the effort you've put into this device
Andreas.
--
https://fam-tille.de
Re: Contacting Debian Boot team
Hi Holger, Am Thu, May 30, 2024 at 04:48:17PM +0200 schrieb Holger Wansing: > Andreas Tille wrote (Sun, 26 May 2024 11:31:24 +0200): > > - Do you feel good when doing your work in Debian Boot team? > > While I have to admit that I'm mostly doing just the simple things :-) I consider this a weak excuse. While I'm known for lots of uploads and bug fixes I'm so happy that people do not go and check how many low hanging fruits of bugs with patches and semi-automated upgrades are amongst those. Doing the simple things (but doing them right) is very much part of the job and I'm happy we have people doing these. As I previously said in the "Blends in D-I" suggestion I'm extremely thankful for your work and its far from simple since that issue is nearly 20 years old and nobody else (including me) found some acceptable solution for it. Thanks again for this! > I consider myself being only a small candle on the cake. > Being not a programmer, I don't do difficult or critical changings most of > the time, so relaxed gaming here ;-) Good that you are considering your volunteer time relaxed. > > - Do you consider the workload of your team equally shared amongst its > > members and who actually is considered a team member? (I added some > > persons in CC who have recently answered to questions on the mailing > > list.) > > My impression is, that kibi might be kind of overloaded (at least some time), > since he's the mainly active part, when it comes to the "difficult or > critical things", which I leave around ... > (and his answer to this survey confirms this) > But I cannot see what I can do against this :-( (see below) > > (ok, that's not strictly correct generally, there are some people taking care > of specific packages, taking workload from kibi's shoulders, but that's not > for the majority of packages) I think I've spotted some instance of the reason which finally motivated me to do this team contacts: For a long time I have the impression that Debian is driven by several "one-person-teams" (to varying extend of the one person influence and tendency to burn out). I see my task as DPL in trying to find means to help on this front. I'm just making some note in my Bits from DPL draft that Debian Boot team might need some help - other ideas how to attract new contributors are welcome. > > - Do you have some strategy to gather new contributors for your team? > > Since I lack the skills to lead new contributors into doing the difficult > or critical things from above (where we would mostly need more manpower, > if at all), I'm a bit lost here ... Attracting people to the things you are doing might help anyway. > > - Can you give some individual estimation how many hours per week you > > are working on your tasks in youre team? Does this fit the amount of > > time you can really afford for this task? > > This ranges from zero to 5-10 hours per week, depending on variables like > the state of development cycle of release (when the next release comes > nearer, I try to get missing translation updates, which leads to more > commits and uploads, as an example). > And: I'm fine with this time effort. Sounds good and healthy. > > - I recently had some discussion on Chemnitzer Linuxtage what might > > be the reason for derivatives to write their own installers. While > > I'm personally perfectly happy with the way I can install Debian I'm > > somehow wondering why others are spending time into a problem we > > are considering "solved" and whether we can learn something from this, > > That was often mentioned, and the arguments for the Debian Installer was the > broader range of architectures, and as well as the support for older hardware. > You can easily create a nicer installer, if you develop from scratch for only > a small variety of up-to-date devices. > > OTOH since Buster we have the Calamares installer on the live images as well, > to serve such approaches. > The idea behind the Calamares installer is exactly that: develop a framework, > which can be used to install a variety of distributions, to solve those > distributions from developing their own installer. Ahhh, I was not aware that Calamares is actually what I get when I select live installer. Thank you for the clarification. > So I think we are on a not that bad position here ... (?) I never said we are bad. I was simply wondering why derivatives do extra work. > > - I once had a amr64 based laptop (Pinebook) and had to learn that I > > can't use the Debian installer which was frustrating. I was told > > that this is the case for har
Re: Contacting Debian Boot team
Hi Phil, Am Mon, May 27, 2024 at 12:15:47AM +0200 schrieb Philip Hands: > This is mostly because I found that I wasn't able to devote the time > required to test things to my satisfaction when my first daughter came > along, So we will see you back in the team once your youngest child is around 10 or so. ;-P > as I'd be distracted before I completed my tests, so I decided to > do something about automating testing, and I've been down that rabbit > hole ever since. When I'm working on that, I'm pretty happy. Good! Keep on working with that. ;-) > I'd say that that work is now bearing some fruit, finally. I had > originally hoped that I'd then be able to put more effort into D-I > itself, but I suspect that maintaining openQA and the Salsa pipeline > stuff may continue to eat a fair amount of my time. Sounds like a pretty interesting project. Thanks for keeping me informed about this. > > - Do you consider the workload of your team equally shared amongst its > > members and who actually is considered a team member? (I added some > > persons in CC who have recently answered to questions on the mailing > > list.) > > My contributions are pretty-much background noise recently, so I guess > that means that the load is very unequal if you were including me in the > stats. > > Cyril has been responsible for keeping D-I viable in recent times, and > Holger also does _loads_ of (mostly translation related) work too. I highly appreciate all responses from Debian Boot team which are the most extensive so far. > > - Do you have some strategy to gather new contributors for your team? > > One of my intentions with the salsa/openQA work is that I'm trying to > make it possible for people to make simple changes to bits of D-I and > have them receive feedback about whether the result is an improvement. > > Hopefully that will lower the bar to new people contributing. Very nice contribution! > > - Can you give some individual estimation how many hours per week you > > are working on your tasks in youre team? Does this fit the amount of > > time you can really afford for this task? > > My work on D-I is pretty sporadic, because I generally pick some small > thing in D-I to use as a test of the current salsa/openqa setup, and > then spend significantly more time sorting out some new wrinkle that's > revealed in the salsa and/or openqa setup by this new example. > > Often this means that by the time I've finished, someone else has > already dealt with the original bug/patch in D-I. I'm not sure to what > extent that counts as D-I work, but I'm happy with the time I spend on > it. OK > > - I recently had some discussion on Chemnitzer Linuxtage what might > > be the reason for derivatives to write their own installers. While > > I'm personally perfectly happy with the way I can install Debian I'm > > somehow wondering why others are spending time into a problem we > > are considering "solved" and whether we can learn something from this, > > I quite like it as it is, but I'm sure many would not find the installer > particularly pretty, and it is quite hard to work on (being in busybox > shell, and lacking popular things like python), and I personally have no > idea how easy/possible it is to e.g. change its branding (if a > downstream wanted to do that). > > If one doesn't care about installing on our minority architectures, then > it's possible to do something that's much easier to work on by booting a > live image. One can then have something that'll ask all the questions > up-front (especially if one is opinionated about what should be on the > resulting system), and then apply that to the system without further > interaction. Would you agree to the statement I'm drawing from past discussion: Debian has to care for working installer on all architectures. Debian derivatives do not have this requirement and prefer other pretty / fancy / brandable ways over the Debian one? > Some arm64 things certainly can be installed with D-I, because I have > openQA workers running on altra.debian.net testing D-I installs, but I > don't know that much about the details. OK > > - Can I do anything for you? > > I'm currently looking into the options that might be worth exploring for > getting more openqa-workers running. I suppose at some point that might > involve asking for funds to be spent, but I'm not at that stage yet. If you have some ideas whom to ask and reasons to motivate them for X amount to spent I'd happily support you in this. > It probably wouldn't harm to offer some funding to osuosl, because they > let us use their systems for various things and making sure that they > are sustainable would be wise. (that's who host most of what I'm running > openqa on at present, and they also host jenkins and reproducible things > AFAIK) If you want to go into more detail (if you consider in private might be better that's fine) I can talk with treasurers
Re: Contacting Debian Boot team
Hi, Am Fri, May 31, 2024 at 04:54:13PM +0200 schrieb Cyril Brulebois: > > However, my question was rather whether you know some valid reasons > > why derivatives are exchanging the install method - maybe that > > question should be better asked on Debian-Boot (if so feel free to > > ignore this question). I was rather wondering about the motivation > > for the usage of Ubiquity or Calamares (or others?). I might be naive > > but from my perspective installing is something that just needs to > > work and having a lot of ways to make this working is somehow burning > > developer time. So what according to your insight is motivating > > derivatives to solve a problem in a different way that is IMHO solved > > by Debian. > > You seem to be asking the wrong person. I don't know about downstream's > motivation, the various alternatives/competitors, etc., and I wouldn't > have time to investigate if I wanted to (and I'm not saying that's the > case). Fair enough. > > Sure there is an arm64 image and I started with copying this to some > > USB stick. But that hardware did not booted from an USB device but > > only from eprom that had to be flashed via SD card. Its not your > > fault definitely but was frustrating for me not beeing able to simply > > run the Debian installer. > > I understand the frustration (“welcome to the ARM world…”) but (1) the > initial statements were a very wrong conclusion from your findings and > (2) even with hardware that's supposed to be supported by free software > we might need time to spot, fix, or workaround bugs (hardware, software, > firmware, doc, etc.) or integrate new features to support new boards. > > That's not specific to d-i, that's just how IT works. ACK. > > It was not really a claim but a question based on my experience with a > > single piece of hardware. I was hoping for some ideas how we could > > motivate hardware vendors to deliver hardware that can be easily > > booted by simply plugging in some USB device featuring the installer > > images we provide on our web page. > > UEFI/arm64 is a thing. Whether HW vendors actually implement/enable UEFI > is another matter entirely (see early EEPROM versions on e.g. Pi 4). Any experiences with Lenovo Thinkpad X13S? Finally Lenovo is present on DebConfs and we can talk to them. Just from reading[1] it seems to be what I'm looking for in principle - provided they might unbundle Win11 from it and I can just plugin the Debian installer USB to install Debian. Kind regards Andreas. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/08/linux_on_the_thinkpad_x13s/ -- https://fam-tille.de
Re: Contacting Debian Boot team
Hi Cyril, sorry for my late reply - I was basically offline the last couple of days. Am Sun, May 26, 2024 at 08:55:37PM +0200 schrieb Cyril Brulebois: > What follows is only my point of view, and anyone active within the > installer team is welcome to share their own. Thanks a lot for your extensive answer. Your personal view is really important to me. I did not (yet) received so many extensive responses to my contact mails. > ACK. TL;DR: no strong organization, mainly some coordination around > releases, but otherwise debian-boot gets to consume whatever ends up in > testing/unstable, and has to adapt accordingly. Of course we have some > packages on our own in addition to all the dependencies that we don't > maintain. > > You might have notice some heavy pushes in the past to get firmware > support improved (enough to avoid black or unreadable screens post > installation, in earlier releases), or to get non-free-firmware included > (in Debian 12). I need to admit I rarely use your great work - just when buying a new machine or setting up some machine of a friend which finally boils down to once a year in average. But I confirm things became better each time. So thanks for all your work. > I don't have any important or urgent needs at the moment, but I won't > hesitate if I spot something that could benefit from your input. Fine. > > I'm sure not everybody will be able to travel this distance but it > > would be great if you would at least consider joining that BoF > > remotely. I'll care for a somehow TimeZone aware scheduling - if > > needed we'll organise two BoFs to match all time zones. I'm also > > aware that we have pretty different teams and it might make sense to > > do some infrastructure related BoF with your team and other teams that > > are caring for Debian infrastructure. > > Anticipating and planning a full week (or more) off that much in the > future is something I can't do at this point, but I'm usually fairly > flexible when it comes to timezones, so joining remotely should work, at > least in principle. Thanks for confirming. The BoF will definitely happen in the first half of DebConf since I need to leave before DebConf ends. > > I have some specific questions to the Debian Boot team. > > > > - Do you feel good when doing your work in Debian Boot team? > > That's been the case from the moment I joined (around 2012, even if > first contact happened in 2010-2011 with the DirectFB → X.Org > transition, see https://mraw.org/blog/2010/01/31/Saving_private_GI/). Good so far. > And until last year, right after the Bookworm release, for reasons I > cannot and wouldn't want to express publicly at this time (relevant team > Bcc'd). What should have been a thumbs-up-all-around celebration turned > into the most severe burnout I've ever felt, personally, professionally, > and “debian-ly”, right after having sacrificed a lot (on all 3 > accounts). > > I can endure hard work. Feelings like betrayal or distrust is something > else entirely. This sounds like the things I wanted to learn. Feel free to contact me in private if you think I can be of any help. > I've come back to doing a few things here and there (including dealing > with 64-bit time_t fallouts on the d-i side, reviewing Netplan's initial > integration, or blends stuff as you know), but I'm nowhere near to > feeling good again about doing d-i things. Thanks a lot for expressing this. > Which is absolutely heartbreaking because I've been doing that for a > while, still enjoy doing it, and really don't want to leave it. And even > if I'm not one to boast, I thought I had been doing a pretty fucking > good job. Until last year that is. My personal perception was always that you are actually debian-boot team in person since >10 years (which might be unfair for other team members) and my personal thanks (independently from my DPL position) goes to you. > We have a very diverse team with people dealing mostly (but not only!) > with i18n/l10n coordination (Holger), with QA (Phil), with some specific > components (flash-kernel), with specific set(s) of images, etc. It's > more a bits & pieces depending on one's area(s) of interest. Thank you for the explanation fixing my perception I mentioned above. > In the end, I'm the one making sure things look “good enough” when > preparing a release makes sense, usually in coordination with various > teams (see frequent mails to -boot, -release, -kernel, -cd, and -live > during the bookworm release cycle, and also in previous ones). I don't > think I need to prepare any statistical analysis, but if memory serves, > those mails have usually been met with silence, tacit or explicit > approval, and I don't remember any crazy ideas from mine needing to be > shot down or rehashed differently -- even I wouldn't mind if it > happened: I know freezing testing can impact any maintainer, but the > -boot/-cd release process has been quite improved over the years (also > with
Contacting Debian Boot team
Hi, while I contacted the release team previously[0] there was no response so far. I tried to establish this first contact since I consider the release team of really high relevance. Meanwhile I have added some more information to my contact mails including advertising a DebConf event (see below). I also added some question and tried to keep every team member in CC. I'd be really happy if you would find some time to answer my questions at the end of this mail (preferably in public on the list but private answers are fine as well. I'd like to officially contact all our teams to learn about potential issues that might affect your work. I would love to learn how you organise / share your workload. If you do some regular meetings - be it on IRC, video conference or whatever I'm interested in joining one of your next meetings. Like previous DPLs, I'm open to any inquiries or requests for assistance. I personally prefer public discussion whenever possible, as they can benefit a wider audience. You can find a list of contact options at the bottom of my page on people.d.o[1]. I prefer being offline when I'm away from my keyboard, so I don't carry a phone. In urgent situations, I can provide the number of my dumb phone, though it may not always be within reach. Feel free to ping me via email if I don't respond promptly to ensure I address your concerns. Please let me know whether I can do something for you. I'm fine joining your IRC channel if needed but please invite me in case I should be informed about some urgent discussion there since I normally do not lurk on this channel. I'd also like to inform you that I've registered a BoF for DebConf24 in Busan with the following description: This BoF is an attempt to gather as much as possible teams inside Debian to exchange experiences, discuss workflows inside teams, share their ways to attract newcomers etc. Each participant team should prepare a short description of their work and what team roles (“openings”) they have for new contributors. Even for delegated teams (membership is less fluid), it would be good to present the team, explain what it takes to be a team member, and what steps people usually go to end up being invited to participate. Some other teams can easily absorb contributions from salsa MRs, and at some point people get commit access. Anyway, the point is that we work on the idea that the pathway to become a team member becomes more clear from an outsider point-of-view. I'm sure not everybody will be able to travel this distance but it would be great if you would at least consider joining that BoF remotely. I'll care for a somehow TimeZone aware scheduling - if needed we'll organise two BoFs to match all time zones. I'm also aware that we have pretty different teams and it might make sense to do some infrastructure related BoF with your team and other teams that are caring for Debian infrastructure. I have some specific questions to the Debian Boot team. - Do you feel good when doing your work in Debian Boot team? - Do you consider the workload of your team equally shared amongst its members and who actually is considered a team member? (I added some persons in CC who have recently answered to questions on the mailing list.) - Do you have some strategy to gather new contributors for your team? - Can you give some individual estimation how many hours per week you are working on your tasks in youre team? Does this fit the amount of time you can really afford for this task? - I recently had some discussion on Chemnitzer Linuxtage what might be the reason for derivatives to write their own installers. While I'm personally perfectly happy with the way I can install Debian I'm somehow wondering why others are spending time into a problem we are considering "solved" and whether we can learn something from this, - I once had a amr64 based laptop (Pinebook) and had to learn that I can't use the Debian installer which was frustrating. I was told that this is the case for hardware that is not featuring some BIOS-like boot system. Do you see any chance to let the installer work for non-Intel architectures (or should I rather ask this question on Debian CD (sorry for my ignorance if I miss responsibility here.) - Can I do anything for you? Kind regards and thanks a lot for your work Andreas. [0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2024/05/msg00114.html [1] https://people.debian.org/~tille/ -- https://fam-tille.de signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Holger, thanks a lot for your effort. Its really appreciated and very valuable for the Blends effort. Am Thu, May 09, 2024 at 11:05:28PM +0200 schrieb Holger Wansing: > Holger Wansing wrote (Tue, 13 Feb 2024 23:43:35 +0100): > > could we just "copy tasksel with its UI and infrastructure" into a new > > package > > (I name it 'blends-di-tasks' here), which has all the blends listed, and > > add > > one entry to tasksel with a name like "Debian Pure Blends" or similar? > > > > If one then selects "Debian Pure Blends" in the good all known tasksel, the > > blends-di-tasks package would be installed on /target, and later a new > > dialog > > would appear, listing all the blends, where the user could select which one > > to > > install. > > (If the "Debian Pure Blends" entry stays unchecked, as would be the default > > value, everything stays as is: the new dialog would not appear, no > > difference > > to previous releases.) > > > > Would that be a possible solution for all involved parties? > > I worked on this in the meantime, and would like to propose my current > state: While I guess the natural place for your packages is installer-team I've just added you to the team in case you want to maintain some (additional?) packages there. > - I adapted tasksel, to become an installer for Debian pure blends. The > new package is blendsel, see https://salsa.debian.org/holgerw/blendsel/ I've build this package and besides a nitpicking comment thet you should probably fix your ID in Uploaders field. > - I prepared a change in pkgsel, to call blendsel depending on the > descision, if Debian pure blends are wanted or not. > See https://salsa.debian.org/holgerw/pkgsel/ > > > I did some testing in d-i, however that's tricky: > testing is problematic as long as the new blendsel package is not in the > archive, and the same with the changed pkgsel. > So I had to "live-patch" the d-i for testing of blendsel, and therefore > I cannot provide a working test image or the like (or I don't know how). I admit I have no idea how to test in d-i but Cyril has given some answers according to this. > Anyway, I think I have it running so far, the blendsel dialog appears > and shows the items to select; I'm attaching a screenshot showing the > current state (please note, that the dialog shows three desktop environments > as placeholder for now; the tasksel - and therefore blendsel as well - > logic does not allow to have packages|tasks|blends listed that don't > have the corresponding task-* packages in the archive). I've build the package locally and confirm it works as described. > However, there will most likely be some glitches and edges to fix in > blendsel, a review would be more than welcome... > The template should be rephrased, I would ask for review on > debian-l10n-english > when the time comes, but I guess there is still time for that... ACK. > So, how to proceed now? > To make progress, the new blendsel needs to get into the archive I guess, > otherwise testing and providing test images will not work IMO. > > Would the installer-team be ok with taking blendsel under its umbrella, > as tasksel is, to get it uploaded? Just let me know if you need any support besides questions that can only be answered by installer team. Thanks again for your work Andreas. -- https://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Holger, Am Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 11:43:35PM +0100 schrieb Holger Wansing: > I would like to push a proposal here on this longstanding topic: Thanks a lot for supporting this long standing topic which actually bothers me than 20 years. But Debian is not only about technique it is also about patience. ;-) > By other means, my attention was drawn to the blends-tasks package. > While this package is not new, an idea came to my mind when reading the > package description: > > As a possible way to solve (or work-around ?) this issue: > could we just "copy tasksel with its UI and infrastructure" into a new > package > (I name it 'blends-di-tasks' here), which has all the blends listed, and add > one entry to tasksel with a name like "Debian Pure Blends" or similar? > > If one then selects "Debian Pure Blends" in the good all known tasksel, the > blends-di-tasks package would be installed on /target, and later a new dialog > would appear, listing all the blends, where the user could select which one > to > install. > (If the "Debian Pure Blends" entry stays unchecked, as would be the default > value, everything stays as is: the new dialog would not appear, no difference > to previous releases.) > > Would that be a possible solution for all involved parties? I consider this an acceptable work-around and it would be definitely a great enhancement over having nothing. > I know, the current (?) plan is something like an "enhanced tasksel" with some > sort of hierarchy included, but I'm not sure, if this will ever happen I think tasksel deserves a new design, but well if we do not have someone who might tackle this task we need to go with the means we have. > Thus, I wonder if this could be an alternative, which would be do-able? Thanks a lot for this inspiring idea. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#851555: Retitle tasksel bug to focus on an actual solution
Control: retitle -1 Please enable hierarchical tasksel to support Blends in installer The origin of this bug is actually #186085 which was marked done and is archived without a real solution (unarchiving seems not to work these days). Here is a collection of links to the topic from mailing lists. If you want to discuss the issue please always CC this bug report: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release) https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/10/msg00113.html Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer (very long thread about several years) https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2018/08/msg00221.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2022/01/msg00116.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2022/01/msg00177.html Hierarchical tasksel / Blends support (Was: Debian Installer Buster Alpha 5 release) https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2019/02/msg00058.html This is just a small collection of entry / important links. Please keep this bug in CC for any contribution to this topic. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#1010393: installation-reports: No swap partition which disables hibernate
Hi Pascal, Am Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 11:27:36PM +0200 schrieb Pascal-liste: > There are mentions of a swap logical volume in partman's log. > Swap area not being a filesystem, df does not show it. Well, to make things short also lsblk does not show any swap partition. I retried now with https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso to reinstall that laptop again. May be it provides extra information that I'm using the text mode installer (out of old habits) and the box has 64GB memory. When choosing "encrypted LVM option" -> "using single partition" (so no extra /home etc.) I end up with the following partitions: Partition 1 at /dev/nvme0n1 as ESP Partition 2 at /dev/nvme0n1 as ext2 There is definitely no swap partition created. I would neet to switch back to "Manual" to get a swap partition. For the fun of it I tried the manual installer but it behaves exactly the same way. I now switched to manual mode deleted partition 2 created partition 3 as swap (64GB) and the remaining 1.9 TB as crypto partition 4. This manual installation is also not really smooth. First I installed swap without encryption. This was rejected by the installer. Then I tried with encryption. In the partition step it says now Der Versuch, ein Dateisystem vom Typ swap auf Verschlüsseltes Volume (nvme0n1p3_crypt) als none einzubinden, ist fehlgeschlagen. which translates somehow to The attempt to mount filesystem of type swap on encrypted volume (nvme0n1p3_crypt) failed. I think I have serious problem to install this machine properly now and I really need help (the first time since > 20 years. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#1010393: installation-reports: No swap partition which disables hibernate
Hi Steve, Am Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 09:17:18PM +0100 schrieb Steve McIntyre: > >The actual problem I'd like to report is that no swap partition was > >created which is probably fine if the box is featuring 64GB. However, > >this prevents from using hibernation feature which I'm missing now and > >thus I probably need to re-install. (/var/log/installer/partman.gz is > >attached.) > > Are you sure about this? When we built and tested the 11.2 release > images, I'm fairly certain that partman will complain and ask you to > double-check if you didn't make a swap partition... I usually choose the default when doing the installation and I'm pretty sure that there was no such question asked since I would have become suspicious about a missing swap partition. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#1010393: installation-reports: No swap partition which disables hibernate
Package: installation-reports Severity: important (Please provide enough information to help the Debian maintainers evaluate the report efficiently - e.g., by filling in the sections below.) Boot method: usb Image version: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.2.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-11.2.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso Date: Machine: frame.work Partitions: $ sudo df -Tl Filesystem Type 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on udevdevtmpfs 32785108 0 32785108 0% /dev tmpfs tmpfs 6564204 1936 6562268 1% /run /dev/mapper/Debian-root ext4 1919713600 1339815668 482308072 74% / tmpfs tmpfs 32821012 43540 32777472 1% /dev/shm tmpfs tmpfs 5120 4 5116 1% /run/lock /dev/nvme0n1p2 ext2 481642 173328283329 38% /boot /dev/nvme0n1p1 vfat 523248 3484519764 1% /boot/efi tmpfs tmpfs 6564200 72 6564128 1% /run/user/1454 Base System Installation Checklist: [O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it Initial boot: [O] Detect network card:[E] Configure network: [-] Detect media: [O] Load installer modules: [O] Clock/timezone setup: [-] User/password setup:[O] Detect hard drives: [O] Partition hard drives: [E] Install base system:[O] Install tasks: [O] Install boot loader:[O] Overall install:[O] Comments/Problems: Detection of Wifi is known to fail since a later kernel than the one on the installer is needed for this hardware. The actual problem I'd like to report is that no swap partition was created which is probably fine if the box is featuring 64GB. However, this prevents from using hibernation feature which I'm missing now and thus I probably need to re-install. (/var/log/installer/partman.gz is attached.) Kind regards Andreas. -- Package-specific info: == Installer lsb-release: == DISTRIB_ID=Debian DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Debian GNU/Linux installer" DISTRIB_RELEASE="11 (bullseye) - installer build 20210731+deb11u2" X_INSTALLATION_MEDIUM=cdrom == Installer hardware-summary: == uname -a: Linux (none) 5.10.0-10-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.84-1 (2021-12-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux lspci -knn: 00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 11th Gen Core Processor Host Bridge/DRAM Registers [8086:9a14] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation UHD Graphics [8086:9a49] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: 00:04.0 Signal processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Device [8086:9a03] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: 00:06.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 11th Gen Core Processor PCIe Controller [8086:9a09] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Kernel driver in use: pcieport lspci -knn: 00:07.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Thunderbolt PCI Express Root Port #0 [8086:9a23] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Kernel driver in use: pcieport lspci -knn: 00:07.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Thunderbolt PCI Express Root Port #1 [8086:9a25] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Kernel driver in use: pcieport lspci -knn: 00:07.2 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Thunderbolt PCI Express Root Port #2 [8086:9a27] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Kernel driver in use: pcieport lspci -knn: 00:07.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Thunderbolt PCI Express Root Port #3 [8086:9a29] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Kernel driver in use: pcieport lspci -knn: 00:08.0 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation Device [8086:9a11] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: 00:0a.0 Signal processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Device [8086:9a0d] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: 00:0d.0 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Thunderbolt USB Controller [8086:9a13] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd lspci -knn: Kernel modules: xhci_pci lspci -knn: 00:0d.2 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Thunderbolt NHI #0 [8086:9a1b] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: 00:0d.3 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Thunderbolt NHI #1 [8086:9a1d] (rev 01) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: 00:12.0 Serial controller [0700]: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Integrated Sensor Hub [8086:a0fc] (rev 20) lspci -knn: Subsystem: Device [f111:0001] lspci -knn: Kernel driver
Bug#1005818: task-lxde-desktop: libreoffice is used as default pdf reader
Package: task-lxde-desktop Version: 3.68 Severity: important X-Debbugs-Cc: andr...@an3as.eu Dear Maintainer, * What led up to the situation? On a fresh installation of bullseye libreoffice is started when clicking on a pdf file. * What exactly did you do (or not do) that was effective (or ineffective)? I tried to adjust "Default applications for LXDE Session" in the configuration setting. Unfortunately nearly all settings are set to "disabled" and I can not change anything here. I also tried to change manually the following: ~$ diff -u .config/lxsession-default-apps/settings.conf_save .config/lxsession-default-apps/settings.conf --- .config/lxsession-default-apps/settings.conf_save 2022-02-15 16:35:32.730001667 +0100 +++ .config/lxsession-default-apps/settings.conf2022-02-15 16:41:12.822627295 +0100 @@ -12,7 +12,7 @@ terminal_manager/available= audio_player/available= video_player/available= -pdf_reader/available= +pdf_reader/available=evince image_display/available= text_editor/available= archive/available= @@ -34,7 +34,7 @@ terminal_manager/installed=XTerm,xterm,mini.xterm,/usr/share/applications/debian-xterm.desktop,;UXTerm,uxterm,mini.xterm,/usr/share/applications/debian-uxterm.desktop,;Terminal emulator,/usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator,terminal,/usr/share/applications/lxde-x-terminal-emulator.desktop,;Multilingual Terminal,mlterm,mlterm-icon-24colors-1,/usr/share/applications/mlterm.desktop,;LXTerminal,lxterminal,lxterminal,/usr/share/applications/lxterminal.desktop,;Thai X terminal,txiterm,xiterm+thai,/usr/share/applications/xiterm+thai.desktop,;Rxvt Color Unicode Terminal,urxvt,urxvt_48x48.xpm,/usr/share/applications/rxvt-unicode.desktop,; audio_player/installed=LXMusic simple music player,lxmusic,lxmusic,/usr/share/applications/lxmusic.desktop,;mpv Media Player,mpv,mpv,/usr/share/applications/mpv.desktop,;PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler,pavucontrol,multimedia-volume-control,/usr/share/applications/pavucontrol.desktop,;Im SMPlayer einreihen,smplayer,smplayer,/usr/share/applications/smplayer_enqueue.desktop,;SMPlayer,smplayer,smplayer,/usr/share/applications/smplayer.desktop,;VLC Media Player,/usr/bin/vlc,vlc,/usr/share/applications/vlc.desktop,;Audacity,env,audacity,/usr/share/applications/audacity.desktop,;Audacious,audacious,audacious,/usr/share/applications/audacious.desktop,;Ripper X,ripperx,ripperx,/usr/share/applications/ripperx.desktop,;K3b,k3b,k3b,/usr/share/applications/org.kde.k3b.desktop,;Cheese,cheese,org.gnome.Cheese,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Cheese.desktop,;OBS Studio,obs,com.obsproject.Studio,/usr/share/applications/com.obsproject.Studio.desktop,; video_player/installed=LXMusic simple music player,lxmusic,lxmusic,/usr/share/applications/lxmusic.desktop,;mpv Media Player,mpv,mpv,/usr/share/applications/mpv.desktop,;PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler,pavucontrol,multimedia-volume-control,/usr/share/applications/pavucontrol.desktop,;Im SMPlayer einreihen,smplayer,smplayer,/usr/share/applications/smplayer_enqueue.desktop,;SMPlayer,smplayer,smplayer,/usr/share/applications/smplayer.desktop,;VLC Media Player,/usr/bin/vlc,vlc,/usr/share/applications/vlc.desktop,;Audacity,env,audacity,/usr/share/applications/audacity.desktop,;Audacious,audacious,audacious,/usr/share/applications/audacious.desktop,;Ripper X,ripperx,ripperx,/usr/share/applications/ripperx.desktop,;K3b,k3b,k3b,/usr/share/applications/org.kde.k3b.desktop,;Cheese,cheese,org.gnome.Cheese,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Cheese.desktop,;OBS Studio,obs,com.obsproject.Studio,/usr/share/applications/com.obsproject.Studio.desktop,; -pdf_reader/installed=Bildbetrachter,gpicview,gpicview,/usr/share/applications/gpicview.desktop,;Dokumentenbetrachter,evince,org.gnome.Evince,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Evince.desktop,;Druckvorschau,evince-previewer,document-print-preview,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Evince-previewer.desktop,;Feh,feh,image-viewer,/usr/share/applications/feh.desktop,; +pdf_reader/installed=evince,Bildbetrachter,gpicview,gpicview,/usr/share/applications/gpicview.desktop,;Dokumentenbetrachter,evince,org.gnome.Evince,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Evince.desktop,;Druckvorschau,evince-previewer,document-print-preview,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Evince-previewer.desktop,;Feh,feh,image-viewer,/usr/share/applications/feh.desktop,; image_display/installed=Bildbetrachter,gpicview,gpicview,/usr/share/applications/gpicview.desktop,;Dokumentenbetrachter,evince,org.gnome.Evince,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Evince.desktop,;Druckvorschau,evince-previewer,document-print-preview,/usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Evince-previewer.desktop,;Feh,feh,image-viewer,/usr/share/applications/feh.desktop,; text_editor/installed=Mousepad,mousepad,org.xfce.mousepad,/usr/share/applications/mousepad.desktop,;Vim,vim,gvim,/usr/share/applications/vim.desktop,;Emacs (GUI),/usr/bin/emacs,emacs,/usr/share/applications/emacs.desktop,;Emacs (Terminal),/usr/bin/emacs,emac
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, Am Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 11:33:38PM + schrieb Steve McIntyre: > Much as I hate to let you down, I think the best policy now is to be > honest (with myself and you!) and say that I'm not going to find time > to do this any time soon. Sorry. :-( No need to be sorry about this. I highly evaluate all your work and use the chance to thank you for this. > I'm just orphaning some of my packages now, as I've been failing to > keep on top of those already. Other stuff has had to take priority for > too long. I can perfectly understand this since I'm in a similar situation that I've done so much in the past and need to realise that I have to step back a bit. > I still think the best route forward is to add new functionality into > debconf and then update tasksel use that. But please don't wait on me > any more. If you can find other volunteers to pick this up, *please* > do. As far as I understood Phil's last posting he is working on an enhanced tasksel. Hopefully those two mails (yours and Phil's) will motivate other contributors to step in. I will not do this (see above). Thanks again for all your work Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Phil, Am Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 08:02:50PM +0100 schrieb Philip Hands: > Fixing that last bit is next on my TODO list. Once done, that should > allow us to try things out rather more easily, and thus have a chance to > demonstrate that they are ready for a wider audience. > > I'll follow up here once I've got all the bits in place. I also expect > to have time to work on getting Blends into d-i after that. That's really great news. Thanks a lot Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, a new release cycle has started. Do you think it is possible to implement this long wanted feature for the next release? Kind regards and happy new year Andreas. Am Sat, Mar 06, 2021 at 04:53:48PM + schrieb Steve McIntyre: > Hey Andreas! > > On Tue, Mar 02, 2021 at 02:46:52PM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote: > >On Thu, Oct 08, 2020 at 10:23:19AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: > >> Hey Andreas! I hope you're keeping well! > >> > >> On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 06:08:02PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > >> >> (Overdue!) update: I've been hacking on this for a while, and I hope > >> >> to have a prototype for testing up shortly. It works fine on my local > >> >> system, but in a test d-i build it fails totally so I've clearly > >> >> missed something! Debugging that now... > >> > > >> >I wonder whether I might have missed some information whether there > >> >is something I could test meanwhile. > >> > >> I'm afraid that various higher-priority interrupts came up (new job, > >> UEFI security work) and I got side-tracked for a while. You must be > >> psychic - I just started picking things up again last weekend. > > > >I admit I did not payed much attention on the development of tasksel and > >thus the chances to select Blends right from the installer. The topic > >remains to be urgent for all Blends - but I'm afraid it will be to late > >for Debian 10. Or did I missed something and the status is promising > >for this release? > > Apologies, I think I've let you down :-( . > > I've made a *small* amount of progress at hacking on debconf (route > #2). But again I've had other things come up, not least another round > of Secure Boot fixes. We're not going to have changes in for > Bullseye. Sorry. :-( > > -- > Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com > Getting a SCSI chain working is perfectly simple if you remember that there > must be exactly three terminations: one on one end of the cable, one on the > far end, and the goat, terminated over the SCSI chain with a silver-handled > knife whilst burning *black* candles. --- Anthony DeBoer > > -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, Am Sat, Mar 06, 2021 at 04:53:48PM + schrieb Steve McIntyre: > > I've made a *small* amount of progress at hacking on debconf (route > #2). But again I've had other things come up, not least another round > of Secure Boot fixes. We're not going to have changes in for > Bullseye. Sorry. :-( Do you see any chance to get this for Bookworm? Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#988696: installation-reports: No network management in LXDE task
Package: installation-reports Severity: normal (Please provide enough information to help the Debian maintainers evaluate the report efficiently - e.g., by filling in the sections below.) Boot method: USB Image version: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/bullseye_di_rc1+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-bullseye-DI-rc1-amd64-DVD-1.iso Date: Machine: Lenovo X240 Partitions: Base System Installation Checklist: [O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it Initial boot: [x] Detect network card:[x] Configure network: [x] Detect media: [x] Load installer modules: [x] Clock/timezone setup: [x] User/password setup:[x] Detect hard drives: [x] Partition hard drives: [x] Install base system:[x] Install tasks: [x] Install boot loader:[x] Overall install:[x] Comments/Problems: I decided for the LXDE task (and unselected Gnome). This ends up with no network management on the rebootet system. My solution was wo plug-in the installation USB stick and install network-manager (+ network-manager-gnome) and all its dependencies manually. This problem is not only valid for this box. I have installed three laptops in a row and its always the same. My suggestion is to simply add network-manager to the LXDE task. Please make sure that any installation logs that you think would be useful are attached to this report. Please compress large files using gzip. -- Package-specific info:
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, On Thu, Oct 08, 2020 at 10:23:19AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: > Hey Andreas! I hope you're keeping well! > > On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 06:08:02PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > >> (Overdue!) update: I've been hacking on this for a while, and I hope > >> to have a prototype for testing up shortly. It works fine on my local > >> system, but in a test d-i build it fails totally so I've clearly > >> missed something! Debugging that now... > > > >I wonder whether I might have missed some information whether there > >is something I could test meanwhile. > > I'm afraid that various higher-priority interrupts came up (new job, > UEFI security work) and I got side-tracked for a while. You must be > psychic - I just started picking things up again last weekend. I admit I did not payed much attention on the development of tasksel and thus the chances to select Blends right from the installer. The topic remains to be urgent for all Blends - but I'm afraid it will be to late for Debian 10. Or did I missed something and the status is promising for this release? Kind regards and thanks for all your attempts anyway Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, On Thu, Oct 08, 2020 at 10:23:19AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: > Hey Andreas! I hope you're keeping well! Thanks, I'm perfectly fine. I hope you as well. > You must be > psychic - I just started picking things up again last weekend. Argh, now you have made my deepest secret public! ;-) Thanks for picking it up and let us know if there is something to test Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 07:16:11PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: > >Not yet, I'm afraid. A little too swamped so far, but you're near the > >top of my TODO list. I'm hoping to get some time for development on > >this in the next couple of months. > > (Overdue!) update: I've been hacking on this for a while, and I hope > to have a prototype for testing up shortly. It works fine on my local > system, but in a test d-i build it fails totally so I've clearly > missed something! Debugging that now... I wonder whether I might have missed some information whether there is something I could test meanwhile. Kind regards and thanks for all your work for the installer Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 07:16:11PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: > >Not yet, I'm afraid. A little too swamped so far, but you're near the > >top of my TODO list. I'm hoping to get some time for development on > >this in the next couple of months. > > (Overdue!) update: I've been hacking on this for a while, and I hope > to have a prototype for testing up shortly. It works fine on my local > system, but in a test d-i build it fails totally so I've clearly > missed something! Debugging that now... Thanks a lot. Its really appreciated. I hope that other Blends step in with testing since I guess the next monthes I'm busy with COVID-19 issues. Thank you for the update Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Steve, the first alpha of the installer of Debian 11 is out. As we talked at DebConf about better Blends support: Is there anything we can test regarding tasksel? Kind regards Andreas. On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 10:32:28PM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote: > Hi, > > somehow I've thought I would have pinged about this one and I even > somehow remember that Holger liked that I did so but I do not find and > trace of this in my outbox nor the mailing list archive. So may be I > have dreamed this. It would be a real dream if we could finally realise > this 15 year old idea to have Blends right in the installer. Is there > any work in progress that could be tested? > > Kind regards > > Andreas. > > On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 10:34:36AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > > Hi, > > > > to give some status information about how we can make Blends more > > visible at installer stage: Holger Levsen, Phil Hands, Steve McIntyre > > and I had some discussion in DebCamp. The conclusion was that adding > > Blends to the installer tasksel menu would be perfectly possible if > > tasksel itself would provide some menu hierarchy. We all agreed that > > the current selection of tasks needs some overhaul in general. It > > could provide some menu item: > > > >"Select Blend" (or rather some better text here!) > > > > and than you get a selection of Blends to pick (one or more) from. > > > > For the Stretch release Phil even wrote some code in this direction that > > needs some refresh. (Phil, can you give some pointer if there is > > something to test?) > > > > Any comments / code contributions are welcome. > > > > Kind regards > > > >Andreas. > > > > PS: Please correct me if my short summary is incomplete. > > > > -- > > http://fam-tille.de > > -- > http://fam-tille.de > > -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Hierarchical tasksel / Blends support (Was: Debian Installer Buster Alpha 5 release)
Hi Steve, On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 01:30:08AM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: > Arg. :-( ;-) > I was hoping that (ideally) Phil or (maybe) I would be able to help > with this, as we discussed at DC18. That's not happened, basically due > to lack of time and too many projects. :-( Well, I know that lots of us are super busy with several projects. That's how things are. > On Tue, Feb 05, 2019 at 09:22:39AM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote: > >Sorry for repeating my question[1] but it is not clear to me whether > >support of Blends is a planed feature of the Buster installer. From > >release to release we realise that it is missing (for Stretch it came > >very close - see bug #851555). From some face to face meetings at > >DebConf I've got the impression that it is all about having an > >hierarchical tasksel (historical fun fact - first bug about this was in > >2003 #186085 where the request to add Blends was de facto refused since > >tasksel is not hierarchical). > > Right. Thanks for confirming. > >I'm long enough in Open Source that I understood asking others to > >implement features that do not belong into their own field of interest > >is not very promising. But it would help me a lot to get at least a > >kind of authoritative answer to my question: If I would try to work on > >a patch for tasksel to enable hierarchical selection in the form > > > > [ ] Debian Pure Blends > > > > --> if selected open a new screen presenting Blends > > > >would this be accepted for the Buster+1 installer? (I think its way to > >late for Buster to implement this.) If I get a definitive "Yes, that > >would be welcome" I'd stop fixing lots of bugs in Debian Med packages > >and shift my priorities a bit more into this direction. But before I'd > >give up some urgently needed QA work I'd like to hear the opinions of > >others whether a hierarchical tasksel is a wanted feature that has any > >chance to be accepted and be used in the Buster+1 installer. > > I would definitely support such a refactoring for tasksel after Buster > is released, and I will make it a priority for my development time > then. That's really relieving for me to hear since I was scared about the need to learn Perl to a way higher level than the basics I have and I admit there are lots of tasks on my desk regarding other Blends related things. Just keep on the good work and lets release Buster as soon as possible Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Hierarchical tasksel / Blends support (Was: Debian Installer Buster Alpha 5 release)
Hi Cyril, thanks for your continuous work on the installer and lots of new great features. On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 12:45:32PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > We need your help to find bugs and further improve the installer, > so please try it. Sorry for repeating my question[1] but it is not clear to me whether support of Blends is a planed feature of the Buster installer. From release to release we realise that it is missing (for Stretch it came very close - see bug #851555). From some face to face meetings at DebConf I've got the impression that it is all about having an hierarchical tasksel (historical fun fact - first bug about this was in 2003 #186085 where the request to add Blends was de facto refused since tasksel is not hierarchical). I'm long enough in Open Source that I understood asking others to implement features that do not belong into their own field of interest is not very promising. But it would help me a lot to get at least a kind of authoritative answer to my question: If I would try to work on a patch for tasksel to enable hierarchical selection in the form [ ] Debian Pure Blends --> if selected open a new screen presenting Blends would this be accepted for the Buster+1 installer? (I think its way to late for Buster to implement this.) If I get a definitive "Yes, that would be welcome" I'd stop fixing lots of bugs in Debian Med packages and shift my priorities a bit more into this direction. But before I'd give up some urgently needed QA work I'd like to hear the opinions of others whether a hierarchical tasksel is a wanted feature that has any chance to be accepted and be used in the Buster+1 installer. Kind regards Andreas. [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2018/12/msg00266.html -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Debian Installer Buster Alpha 4 release
Hi Cyril, thanks for the summary and all your work for the installer. I have not seen any mentioning of supporting Blends in the new installer. I remember that we talked about this at DebConf 16 that chances are good that we finally will get the feature to select Blends right from the installer. Any idea what to do to get this done? Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi, somehow I've thought I would have pinged about this one and I even somehow remember that Holger liked that I did so but I do not find and trace of this in my outbox nor the mailing list archive. So may be I have dreamed this. It would be a real dream if we could finally realise this 15 year old idea to have Blends right in the installer. Is there any work in progress that could be tested? Kind regards Andreas. On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 10:34:36AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > Hi, > > to give some status information about how we can make Blends more > visible at installer stage: Holger Levsen, Phil Hands, Steve McIntyre > and I had some discussion in DebCamp. The conclusion was that adding > Blends to the installer tasksel menu would be perfectly possible if > tasksel itself would provide some menu hierarchy. We all agreed that > the current selection of tasks needs some overhaul in general. It > could provide some menu item: > >"Select Blend" (or rather some better text here!) > > and than you get a selection of Blends to pick (one or more) from. > > For the Stretch release Phil even wrote some code in this direction that > needs some refresh. (Phil, can you give some pointer if there is > something to test?) > > Any comments / code contributions are welcome. > > Kind regards > >Andreas. > > PS: Please correct me if my short summary is incomplete. > > -- > http://fam-tille.de -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi Ole, On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:23:58PM +0200, Ole Streicher wrote: > Filippo Rusconi writes: > > Also, when I installed debian-science and debichem last time, the process > > downloaded such an amount of software that it almost filled my disk (which > > I was > > not suspecting). Maybe, a rough indication of the used disk space in front > > of > > each blend might be useful, in this respect. > > I would not include debian-science to the blends listed in the > installer: it is more an umbrella to organize the packages then a useful > selection of software. The software selection is also inconsitent: it > only contains software that is not maintained by a more specialized > blend (like debichem). > > So, there is probably no real use case to install Debian Science in its > current form (unless someone takes the work to kurate a "Generic Debian > Science Workstation" or so). True. There might be some general use in may be the following tasks: https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/dataacquisition https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/distributedcomputing https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/statistics https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/typesetting https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/viewing (or even a subset of these). I'm not very keen on having these but may be this could be a topic to discuss. > On our last attempt, we had an opt-in for the blends to be in the > installer; I would propose the same now as well. Definitely Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Next attempt to add Blends to Debian installer
Hi, to give some status information about how we can make Blends more visible at installer stage: Holger Levsen, Phil Hands, Steve McIntyre and I had some discussion in DebCamp. The conclusion was that adding Blends to the installer tasksel menu would be perfectly possible if tasksel itself would provide some menu hierarchy. We all agreed that the current selection of tasks needs some overhaul in general. It could provide some menu item: "Select Blend" (or rather some better text here!) and than you get a selection of Blends to pick (one or more) from. For the Stretch release Phil even wrote some code in this direction that needs some refresh. (Phil, can you give some pointer if there is something to test?) Any comments / code contributions are welcome. Kind regards Andreas. PS: Please correct me if my short summary is incomplete. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Debian Installer Buster Alpha 1 release
Hi Cyril, On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 04:53:03PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > The Debian Installer team[1] is pleased to announce the first alpha > release of the installer for Debian 10 "Buster". > > > Important notes for this release of the installer > = > ... thanks for starting the work on the installer that early in the release process. Considering our face2face discussion at DebConf I would like to ask how we could approach a sensible solution for Blends showing up at install time on the Buster installer. Do you see any need for contributions (besides testing) from the Blends team? Please let us know how we can contribute. Kind regards and thanks again for your continuous work Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Bug#846002: Debian Installer Stretch RC 1 release
Hi, On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 02:24:13PM +0100, Ole Streicher wrote: > > Important changes in this release of the installer > > == > > > > * [...] > > * As noted in the Stretch Alpha 6 release announcement, Debian Pure > >Blends appeared in the Software selection screen. Unfortunately, > >concerns voiced back then weren't worked on until after the freeze > >started, and a freeze isn't the time where critical screens should > >be revamped. Support was disabled accordingly. > > Since this is still an open discussion in #846002, I would have > preferred if you would not try to force your own preference here before > the CTTE made its decision. While I'm not sure whether its a personal preference or whether some discussion I might have missed has lead to this result but I'm similar astonished as Ole about this result without a final decision of the CTTE. Kind regards and thanks for working on the installer in any case Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Bug#758116: Allow to select Blends selection during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 10:18:42AM +, Holger Levsen wrote: > Hi, > > two more ideas from irc: > > < pabs> KiBi, tbm: re blends/desktops stuff, what about showing that only in > expert mode? I'm not sure whether "expert mode" fits the intended user target group. > < h01ger> or a dedicated image, which uses a kernel cmdline param to enable > blends-mode… I think this is a good hint. I admit the thread went in three ways out of my competence: One are technical details I have not dealt with before, one is the installer philosophy I have not thought deeply about and finally there seem to be personal issues involved I can't sensibly comment on. So I'd like to summarise the intention of bug #758116: We need to find a sensible answer to the question that is asked by users whenever I'm talking about Blends: How can I easily install a Blend? Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Bug#758116: Allow to select Blends selection during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 09:42:47AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > Christian Perrier (2016-05-18): > > (thanks for prodding me...you never know, indeed, though I still read > > -boot...;-) ) > > (wow, great!) May be some OT chatting about super marathons might keep Bubulle attracted. :-P > > So, with something like "Special-purpose packages" or "Specialized > > installations" or whatever along those lines, *then* a menu with the Blends > > list (unsorted) and the possibility of going back just in case people see > > the list and think "heck, I have no idea about what this stuff is > > about"then I'd say this is the way to go. > > While deciding the exact label (and getting it translated) might be > tricky indeed, let's see if we can come up with a working implementation > past D-I Stretch Alpha 6, then. Sounds good. > The person looking into this (hello future self?) should remember > preseeding should be supported, as well as going back. If there are any tasks that do not require any detailed knowledge of the installer please feel free to throw them here on the Blends list. We really appreciate your effort into the installer and try to get at least parts of work from your shoulders. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: Bug#758116: Allow to select Blends selection during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough
Hi, [due to traveling to some Debian Med related workshop in Paris I was a bit offline-ish - so I become involved a bit late into this discussion and just add my points where I think further input might be helpful.] On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 02:00:14PM +0200, Ole Streicher wrote: > > > I have no idea whether the following is practical, and/or makes sense > > regarding d-i's logic, etc., but I'm wondering whether it would be > > possible to have checking "Debian Pure Blends" activate a follow-up > > screen which would list all Blends. > > In the current solution, people without the need to select a blend have > everything on the first screen, and only those who want to see all > blends are required to scroll down *once*. So, it requires the same (or > even less) interaction than your proposal. Structure wise I agree with Cyril that some follow-up screen would make some sense provided that we have some explanation what "Debian Pure Blends" are. > It also needs no change in the installer at all. What I would much more > like to see would be some help texts -- currently one has to guess what > "Debian EzGo" means (or "standard system utilities"). It would be nice > if tasksel would actually display the detailed description that is in > the tasks pages. Fully agreed here that some extra information would be really helpful (fully orthogonal to the Blends topic). I personally decided to go with the minimum selected tasks since I was lacking information what the tasks might be install on my box. As a conclusion I agree with Ole that his current proposed solution is acceptable for practical cases since it does not require any additional user interaction and we do not have the technique that might be needed to realise other more structured solutions. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#758116: Every second year we are talking about a proper installer
Hi folks, I'd like to attract your attention onto bug #758116 which is requesting a sensible selection of Blends tasks right from the installer. While the bug report received a lot of positive responses nobody raised up to actually provide and test the needed code. Since we only have nearly six monthes to get something into such a sensible thing like the installer I'm afraid if nobody starts now we will have another release without such a great feature. I wonder whether somebody who reads this list would volunteer to dive into the details of the installer or might be able to activate a volunteer with the necessary knowledge. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#758116: Bug status
Hi all, On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 02:04:41PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > > > I would be quite interested to get this done; being visible during the > > installation is one of the motivations in creating a Blend. > > I can certainly appreciate that. Thanks for the clear statement which is hopefully motivating. > Unfortunately I don't have enough > bandwidth to keep track of or shepherd everything d-i related, and > I can't promise if/when I could look into this, sorry. I can perfectly understand your point of view and I'm pretty sure that you will not wait for any task somebody else will put on you. :-) So the clear extract of this message is: We need a volunteer and IMHO we need this *now*. I'm convinced that Cyril will be able to give a pointer where to poke around but I for myself have also a clear statement: Unfortunately I don't have enough bandwidth to keep track of or shepherd everything blends related, and I can't promise if/when I could look into this, sorry. (If you think you have read this before its a copy of Cyrils sentence with simply s/d-i/blends/.) Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Bug#758096: Blends in D-I tasksel selection? (Was: Filed Bug#758096: tasksel: Allow to select specific packages during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough)
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 04:09:09PM +, Chris Bell wrote: > >I understand the reasons for removing these tasks from tasksel in the > installer but I think that some, especially mail-server, were a great help > to inexperienced users because they set sensible defaults over all the > included packages, and even for those not immediately included such as > spamassassin. Could it be made available among the tasks listed by aptitude? Sorry, could you please discuss this in the relevant bug. This bug was about *adding* something and not the removal. The arguments there were pretty convincing and I personally will not change this (if I ouwl touch tasksel at all). Thanks Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2014173240.gc4...@an3as.eu
Bug#758096: Blends in D-I tasksel selection? (Was: Filed Bug#758096: tasksel: Allow to select specific packages during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough)
Hi, I guess the sad news that Joey Hess leaves Debian has spread also to Debian Blends list. The direct consequence for Blends is that Joey will not work on this bug (#758096) and will also most probably not rise any opinion on it any more but we somehow need to move on. I realised that the changelog says: ... tasksel (3.23) unstable; urgency=medium ... * Added a Parent field, which results in a simple nested hierarchy display. (Currently only one level deep, and not collapsible since debconf doesn't have an appropriate widget.) ... * Removed mail-server, dns-server, database-server, file-server tasks, which were not well enough defined to be useful and whose menu space will be better used for blends or openstack tasks. Closes: #604100 ... which according to Git (git://git.debian.org/git/tasksel/tasksel.git) relates to this commit. commit 9e2290b531e414ffb16e89b50cf5c44413fa71b8 Author: Joey Hess Date: Sun Sep 7 22:45:02 2014 -0400 hierarchical tasks, desktop selection, and general massive changes ... * Added a Parent field, which results in a simple nested hierarchy display. (Currently only one level deep, and not collapsable since debconf doesn't have an appropriate widget.) ... * Removed mail-server, dns-server, database-server, file-server tasks, which were not well enough defined to be useful and whose menu space will be better used for blends or openstack tasks. ... This again shows Joey's great way to deal with things by simply working at something rather than doing a lot of talk. I really appreciate this - another thanks to Joey. As far as I can see without testing this means regarding the display of Blends in D-I (#758096) that we only need to *decide* and in case we want to do this add the needed bits of data. Any opinions regarding a decision? Kind regards Andreas. PS: I'll be AFK from 19. Nov to 3. Dez. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2014105955.gn13...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: re: popcon
Hi, On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 Joey Hess wrote: > There is going to be a limited amount of space in tasksel for blends, > given current debconf UI constraints. Yes, we know this. Does this statement of yours mean A) I'm not going to fix this B) I'm not going to fix this in Jessie C) Please make more constructive suggestions for a user interface design > I think that using popcon as a rough pass to select the blends makes > rather a lot of sense. The "Debian Pure Blends" effort has been around > for several releases and been publicised. The individual blends have had > time to find users, or not. If there is some new and upcoming blend that > makes sense to promote for a while, it might make sense to disregard the > popcon numbers for a while. I would like to repeat that if I ever talked about any Blend every talk got a flavour of the following question: How can I *easily* install Blend X? Unfortunately I always needed to answer that there is no *easy* way, but you can do "stuff". I wonder whether you see a chance to change this for Jessie? What you expect from the Blends team to work on this in case your answer would be yes? Kind regards and thanks for working on tasksel Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141103135322.gh32...@an3as.eu
Re: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi Bas, On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 08:27:37PM +0200, Bas Wijnen wrote: > Ok. Is it supposed to be possible to install more than one blend > simultaneously? Is that technically prevented with Conflicts? Not at all. I have not tested but I would bet that you can install all existing metapackages of all Blends at the same time. Conflicts do not make any sense to the contrary it makes sense to install say med-bio and science-typesetting at the same time (just to say a random example). > > ... as always with documentation. :-) The same applies to me to some > > extend (and I'm not proud about this). > > No, I'm not proud of it either. But as Feynman said: "you [yourself] > are the easiest person to fool." So I take some pride in admitting it; > telling myself otherwise would have been easier. ;-) :-) Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141016203751.gd30...@an3as.eu
Re: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi Bas, On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 07:49:32PM +0200, Bas Wijnen wrote: > > > For the moment the way to install Blends is to use the plain Debian > > installer and afterwards install a bunch of metapackages. > > Ah, and that's what you want to change now. That sounds like a very > good idea. :-) > > The lack of a missing installer for all other Blends is a frequently > > criticised problem and I personally think this should be fixed by the > > integration into the official boot cds since this fits to the nature > > of Blends which are a subset of Debian. > > Yes, I agree. For the documentation, I think the main thing that is > missing is "how to start and stop"; important for every documentation. > "Stopping" isn't really relevant in this case (but it doesn't hurt to > mention that the metapackage can be uninstalled). But "To use a Blend, > you need to install its metapackage" would have clarified it for me. > Once it is possible, it would be very nice if "there is an option to do > this during system install" could be added to that. I'll put this on my todo list for 2014-11-05+x. > On occasion, I've needed a single-use system; something that boots up > into an application and that shuts down when that application exits. > (Having the full power of Debian in the background is a nice feature, > but mostly unused.) For example, for dancing rehearsal I want the > instructors to be able to switch their computer on and have the sound > program start up without any interaction. It isn't hard to set this up, > but if I want to tell other dancing instructors how to do this, it > requires more steps than I would like. I've tried making custom live > CDs, with a special package that does these things. > > Would this use case also be a reason for creating a personal blend? Or > even an official one? Jonas has answered this question. I'd like to add that I'm no fan of "personal" things since you spoil the idea of forming a team around the idea. I could perfectly imagine such a Blend and every specific application is a separate "task" (in the Blends slang). So you can assemble those people with the goal to run one dedicated application. > What would be the easiest way for people to > install a non-official blend? Should I create my own installer? Should > the installer be changed to allow entering a URL (for an external apt > source) before it presents the list of available blends? (I think this > might be a good idea, but it shouldn't be in there by default; only when > the user selects "back" on the blend selection menu. Or perhaps there > can be a button in that menu for opening the dialog, but if it's for > adding any apt repository, the blends dialog is not the right place for > it.) Well, these are good questions. They are abit hard to answer in a situation when we are discussing about how to properly install the currently existing Blends. > > There might be additional apt sources but it is not only about apt > > sources. For instance (as far as I'm informed) all packages in Debian > > Edu are inside Debian and there was just a need to change some > > configuration change of some *other* packages which conflicts with > > Debian policy (I'm pretty sure Jonas will respond in detail to this mail > > - so I save my time here B-)). > > So it installs a package which changes configuration of other packages > when it is installed? That sounds very ugly... Isn't there a better > way to preconfigure a system? Yes. The better way is to convince the single package maintainers. The longish discussion is in bug #311188. > > H. I had thought / hoped that this is documented in[5]. > > It is, but I think it's too much text and too far away. It's good that > it's there, but I think it would be good to have on the first page > people are pointed to (which one is that anyway? The one in the wiki?) > a one-line explanation that is understandable. The definition of "Pure > Blend" on https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends is "a subset of > Debian that is configured to support a particular target group > out-of-the-box." That does not give me enough information to know if I > should be interested enough to read any further. Also todo list for 2014-11-05+x. > Oh, and I have another question; this seems very similar to "tasks"; how > is it different? Each Blend creates metapackages and a -tasks package to feed tasksel. Yes, we are using this term actively. The difference is more in the content that the tasks are specific for fields of interest but the used technique is the same (which is intentional to enable integration into the installer easily). > > Enhancements / patches(source is in package source of blends source > > package) are always welcome. > > I might write a patch, but knowing myself I probably don't get around to > actually do that. ... as always with documentation. :-) The same applies to me to some extend (and I'm not proud about this). > > Do you think I should
Re: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi Holger, On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 10:25:20AM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: > Hi, > > On Dienstag, 14. Oktober 2014, Andreas Tille wrote: > > While this "no" means: There exist 1 or 2 Blends focussing on a > > specific desktop environment (as far as I know Debian Edu and Ezgo) but > > Debian Edu offers you the documented choices between KDE Plasma (default), > Gnome, Mate, Xfce4, LXDE and Sugar. (And for jessie+1 hopefully Cinnamon > too.) > And as the documentation also says you can apt-get install anything else you > wish from Debian too. > > So no, Debian Edu doesnt focus on a specific desktop anymore. A few years ago > KDE was *the* choice, but iirc that was until ~2009 or 10. Thanks for the clarification. In this case I'd answer the question from Bas > Do all blends work well with all desktop environments? rather with "yes". I'll send this to the other lists where the question came up to. At some point we should stop cross-posting to several lists, but since the topic about the installer is relevant for debian-boot as well I'm not sure whether it is good to leave this out. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141015091629.gk16...@an3as.eu
Re: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi, On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 08:29:47PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Well, Blends and "the desktop situation" could be considered > orthogonal. > > > > Do all blends work well with all desktop environments? > > No. While this "no" means: There exist 1 or 2 Blends focussing on a specific desktop environment (as far as I know Debian Edu and Ezgo) but others work perfectly well under all desktop environments. So the answer is mathematical correct but a bit short to understand the full picture. Kind regards Andreas. PS: I'll answer Bas' question tomorrow in more detail but I'm to tired today. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-blends-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141014215750.ga4...@an3as.eu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141014215750.ga4...@an3as.eu
Re: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi Bas, On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 07:19:36PM +0200, Bas Wijnen wrote: > On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:20:02AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > > I admit I expected *you* to know about Blends for a while - but > > considering the video recorded quote I think I was not wrong using this > > chance to point this out for other readers of this mail as it is really > > a fact that I always meet DDs who mix up this concept with derivatives. > > I have heard about them for quite a while, indeed, but I must say that I > never entirely understood what they are. I'm guessing I'm not alone in > this. You belong to a majority if I might conclude from my experience. I have no idea whether I should feel responsible for this but I'm fighting on several fronts like the extensive documentation[1] and countless talks[2] as well as trying to push newcomers into the topic by sponsering their packages[3]. > So let me write what I think they are, and then you can correct > me. I've read the explanation on the wiki, but I'm still not sure if I > understand it right. > > I think a blend is a system you can install, which after installing is a > regular Debian system, set up for a particular task. Because it's a > regualr Debian system, after installation packages can be installed and > removed just like on any other Debian system, and any other system can > be turned into a blend by installing the right packages. For the moment the way to install Blends is to use the plain Debian installer and afterwards install a bunch of metapackages. There is one exception Debian Edu / Skolelinux which uses dedicated installation medias with pre-feeded debconf data. There is a long standing discussion whether Debian Edu deserves the term "pure" but I will not dive into this can of worms since I do not want to spoil the general picture here with details caused by a single bug (Debian Edu people will know it by heart). The lack of a missing installer for all other Blends is a frequently criticised problem and I personally think this should be fixed by the integration into the official boot cds since this fits to the nature of Blends which are a subset of Debian. I'd like to add some informal ideas about Blends to perhaps give a better picture of the idea: - Several people entertain deriving from Debian and actually the never ending misconception about Blends is that they are derivatives. But Blends are derivatives "done the right way" - by not deriving Debian and rather do the adaptations inside Debian. The goal is to save time and prevent reinventing the wheel on the (non)derivers side and to bundle forces right into Debian. - Blends are a way to advertise Debian in specific fields of interest I personally started from a point where I wanted to reach a status, that if somebody wonders what distribution to use for biology and medical care the natural answer should be "Use Debian" We could easily reach this goal for other fields of interest if all our dedicated experts we had in Debian would work on this direction in their own field. - Blends is also about forming teams inside Debian to care for a certain topic to serve as glue between upstream and the end user and if you have watched[4] (as advised in my last mail) you not only get an idea about how we form teams but about the Blends concept in general. > From the wiki, it seems that is just the "Pure Blend", because other > Blends may have extra apt sources. There might be additional apt sources but it is not only about apt sources. For instance (as far as I'm informed) all packages in Debian Edu are inside Debian and there was just a need to change some configuration change of some *other* packages which conflicts with Debian policy (I'm pretty sure Jonas will respond in detail to this mail - so I save my time here B-)). The whole pure / non-pure discussion is from my personal point of view a consequence of nitpicking about policy compliance which was born out of the problem that some package maintainers are not willing to accept some more flexible debconf configuration options. I agree that policy is something to be really picky about and will not argue against this but on the other hand it spoils a bit the simplicy to understand the whole concept. So a "Debian Pure Blend" (I use the shortcut "Blend" as a synonym) is fully integrated into Debian while "non-pure" Blends are trying to approach the full Debian integration but some minor pieces like a hand full of packages or some policy conflicting stuff remain on their todo list. > Is this a good summary? I hope I added some more points to this summary. > If so, I think it would be a very good idea to make this part of the > installer. And turn the default system
Re: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi Cyril, On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 10:14:53AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > > > > In other words: I perfectly know the fact that Blends are widely > > ignored even amongst Debian developers and that's not about you / the > > debian-boot team - perhaps my "running around and tell people" is just > > not the right way to convince people. At least I can tell that those > > people who were listening started to like the idea [see 1]. > > to clarify a bit: my surprise was about blends support in tasksel/d-i. > I've known about blends for a while but I don't think that topic popped > up in my debian-boot radar during the whole Jessie release cycle. I admit I expected *you* to know about Blends for a while - but considering the video recorded quote I think I was not wrong using this chance to point this out for other readers of this mail as it is really a fact that I always meet DDs who mix up this concept with derivatives. > > Well, Blends and "the desktop situation" could be considered orthogonal. > > The main goal of a Blend is not primarily to tweak the desktop (even if > > this could be done). It is rather about the applications. In Debian > > Med we even have a cluster task which contains exclusively those > > packages which can be run without a graphical desktop (bio-cloud [2]). > > I meant the needed changes in tasksel to support both desktop selection > and blends. OK. > > ... > > earlier, yes. The reason why at least I stayed away from this since > > 2003 (#186085) was that I have seen little chances to change the > > refusal. However, since recently some Blends of some more general > > interest like Debian Games and Debian GIS started or gained some > > traktion resp. the idea came up to rise this question on IRC in the > > DebConf talk. > > Blends… support in d-i (during this release cycle) was what I meant, > sorry for being unclear. Hopefully that was covered by the above > clarification. ;) Yes it was. :-) However, I also had taken the chance to refer to an earlier bug (perhaps also to review its old arguments). > > I perfectly agree that you as the one person army keeping Debian Boot > > alive (hey, do you like the Blends born idea to prove this point[4]??) > > should not spend extra time cycles into the implementation. > > That really isn't true, there are many other developers, reporters, and > patch providers. I'm only adding glue or oil where needed… Of course we > could do with more hands (look at the BTS), but I'm far for being the > only one working on d-i. I agree that my term was a bit in terms of a compliment in the sense of a "friendly lie". I was not trying to underestimate the work of those people who are providing smaller contributions. However, you really find lots of graphs similar like[4] which show the feature of one dominant person at a certain time. Perhaps you take this as: Thanks for the effort you spent obviously for debian-boot. > > That's in fact a quite motivating incentive and I perfectly agree that > > we really should start rather yesterday than today. The thing is that > > it is not really clear to me, what we should do rather than adding the > > packages > > > >edu-tasks > >games-tasks > >gis-tasks > >junior-tasks > >med-tasks > >science-tasks > >debichem-tasks > >ezgo-tasks > > > > (multimedia-tasks is not ready according to their maintainer[5]) to the > > boot disks. > > > > Joey Hess as tasksel maintainer mentioned "limited amount of space in > > tasksel for blends" but this does not give a sensible hint of what exact > > action we should do now. I think currently eight additional lines is > > not that much. I also totally contradict to Joey's statement "The > > 'Debian Pure Blends' effort has been around for several releases and > > been publicised." and I take [1] as sufficient argument that it is not > > the case. Blends were never ever regarded in practice as some Debian > > internal thing and *every* time when I talk about Blends on conferences > > and in private discussions I will be asked: "Why don't you do this cool > > stuff right into Debian instead of a derivative?" It would *really* > > help in this kind of discussion to point to the Debian installer ... > > > > So if we would get some helping hand what exactly technically needs to > > be done, we could try to come up with some solution. > > I'm not sure we have 8 slots at the moment. I'm pretty sure a scrollbar > (if at all feasible) in a multi-choice menu would be a bad idea. I agree here. However, I think it would be a shame to drop a good idea (and as far as I understood the responses to the bug it is considered good by several people) since we failed to find a sensible menu design. > Maybe we'd need a separate prompt for blends. I perfectly agree that some additional menu level would be the most natural way in my eyes. I think I mentioned this before. Hmmm, just wondering why I can't find this term in the previous bugrepor
Re: Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi Cyril, On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 06:02:11AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > Hi Andreas, > > Andreas Tille (2014-10-08): > > On Sun, Oct 05, 2014 at 09:11:24PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > > > The Debian Installer team[1] is pleased to announce the second beta > > > release of the installer for Debian 8 "Jessie". > > > ... > > > > thanks for your report and your continuous work on the installer. > > > > I wonder what might be the opinion of the installer team about bug > > #758116 which contains the suggestion to add Blends to the tasks > > selection menu and whether we could do something to help with the > > implementation. The bug report received a lot of agreement from people > > working in different Blends but only one question[1] of Joey Hess > > probably wearing his tasksel maintainer hat. For me it is not clear > > whether this is an issue of deciding what Blend to include (Joey's > > question was targeting into this direction) or whether you hesitate to > > implement this at all. Since it is not clear whether you think this > > kind of menu is sensible or not we did not yet mindet providing patches > > or so to support your work. Some kind of statement could be motivating > > to provide more work on the technical side. > > > > Kind regards and thanks again for your work on the installer > > > > Andreas. > > > > [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=758116#140 > > well to be honest the whole blend story came as a surprise. Ahhh, this in turn is surprising for me since the first "version" of this bug is dated 24 Mar 2003 (#186085) :-). But I agree that Blends are not widely known even if I was proactively running around since more than ten years telling people "Is there a topic in Debian you care about? Create a Blend today!" as Asheesh advised me in last years DebConf talk[1 - just see the linked subtitles text to save time - it is *very* speaking for the whole topic!] In other words: I perfectly know the fact that Blends are widely ignored even amongst Debian developers and that's not about you / the debian-boot team - perhaps my "running around and tell people" is just not the right way to convince people. At least I can tell that those people who were listening started to like the idea [see 1]. > I think we identified quite early in the release cycle that we would > need to finally do something about the desktop situation (which first > landed in D-I Jessie Beta 2). Well, Blends and "the desktop situation" could be considered orthogonal. The main goal of a Blend is not primarily to tweak the desktop (even if this could be done). It is rather about the applications. In Debian Med we even have a cluster task which contains exclusively those packages which can be run without a graphical desktop (bio-cloud [2]). > Blends were first mentioned during a DC'14 talk in late August. To be precise: Blends (formerly Custom Debian Distributions - yes, I'm *not* responsible for this broken name :-() was mentioned on *any* DebConf I joined with exception of DebConf 0 where this idea was not yet born. If you scroll down my talks page[3] you stumble upon DebConf 1 in Bordeaux 2001 as first time presenting the idea on a DebConf. Any of my talks raised the question, whether there is a menu in the installer to a) get an easy installation method and b) propagate the Blends concept (which is obviously needed). It might have been the fault of people who care about Blends that they did not approached the Debian Boot team earlier, yes. The reason why at least I stayed away from this since 2003 (#186085) was that I have seen little chances to change the refusal. However, since recently some Blends of some more general interest like Debian Games and Debian GIS started or gained some traktion resp. the idea came up to rise this question on IRC in the DebConf talk. > At the > moment my personal feeling about this is that it looks a bit late, and > I'm almost certainly not going to drive such changes myself. I perfectly agree that you as the one person army keeping Debian Boot alive (hey, do you like the Blends born idea to prove this point[4]??) should not spend extra time cycles into the implementation. > I don't > have any strong incentive to prevent other people from working on this > though. (Of course, any work should happen sooner than later.) That's in fact a quite motivating incentive and I perfectly agree that we really should start rather yesterday than today. The thing is that it is not really clear to me, what we should do rather than adding the packages edu-tasks games-tasks gis-tasks junior-tasks med-tasks science-tasks debichem-tasks
Any news about Blends in tasks selection (Was: Debian Installer Jessie Beta 2 release)
Hi Cyril, On Sun, Oct 05, 2014 at 09:11:24PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > The Debian Installer team[1] is pleased to announce the second beta > release of the installer for Debian 8 "Jessie". > ... thanks for your report and your continuous work on the installer. I wonder what might be the opinion of the installer team about bug #758116 which contains the suggestion to add Blends to the tasks selection menu and whether we could do something to help with the implementation. The bug report received a lot of agreement from people working in different Blends but only one question[1] of Joey Hess probably wearing his tasksel maintainer hat. For me it is not clear whether this is an issue of deciding what Blend to include (Joey's question was targeting into this direction) or whether you hesitate to implement this at all. Since it is not clear whether you think this kind of menu is sensible or not we did not yet mindet providing patches or so to support your work. Some kind of statement could be motivating to provide more work on the technical side. Kind regards and thanks again for your work on the installer Andreas. [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=758116#140 -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141008094524.gc13...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: More tasks option in Tasksel: what tasks do you want there? (reloaded)
Hi Thomas, thanks for caring for this topic. On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 11:15:48PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote: > ... > So, with what you're proposing, we'll have something like this: > >│[*] Desktop environment │ >│[*] ... Xfce│ >│[ ] ... GNOME │ >│[ ] ... KDE │ >│[ ] Debian pure blends │ >│[ ] ... Debian Edu │ >│[ ] ... Debian Med │ [ ] ... Biology [ ] ... Medical imaging [ ] ... Medical practice ... >│[ ] ... DebiChem│ [ ] ... Ab inito [ ] ... Crystallography [ ] ... Molecular modelling ... >│[ ] Openstack │ >│[ ] ... Compute Node│ >│[ ] ... Proxy Node │ > > This looks awesome already, a way better than what we had before. +1 With the additional hint that Blends consists of a set of tasks which usually can selected separately and in several (if not most) practical cases it does not make sense to install them all at once. Kind regards Andreas. > [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2014/09/msg00206.html > [2] https://wiki.debian.org/tasksel/MoreTasks -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140909124447.gi9...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: More tasks option in Tasksel: what tasks do you want there?
Hi Cyril, On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 02:33:06AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > > At some point it would really be nice to have a summary of what happened > or what was discussed at DebConf, but on mailing lists. While I'm very > happy to see stuff happen during in person meetings, keeping people who > weren't there out of the loop shouldn't happen IMO. +1 (specifically for people who did not joined DebConf) > (I'm probably biased since I'm in that category; and maybe additionally > slightly annoyed since I spent quite some time providing material for > discussion with no feedback as of yet.) Regarding one item of Adam's list the Blends topic you might like to have a look at #758116 where we try to write down opinions. Please note that any of these Blends provide a *set* of tasks so it might make sense if we have the space to add all seven listed Blends on the first screen and enable to select single tasks after selecting one Blend (and perhaps selecting more tasks from other Blends like for instance Debian Med ---> select Biology Debian Science ---> select tasks Statistics and Viewing or something like this). Kind regards and thanks for all your work for d-i Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140909110706.ge9...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: Please be verbose whether you would like to get your Blend promoted by tasksel
Hi Per, On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 02:50:19PM +0200, Per Andersson wrote: > > > > I think it is not a measure for a sequence but rather a measure whether > > a Blend should be included or not. > > Possibly, but the fact is that only three blends have more than zero installs. > Better then to have some criterion for inclusion, possibly as simple as > having a $BLEND-tasks package for tasksel. Ahhh, I see you are refering to the third data column (vote). Well, I think popcon simply is failing for metapackages. You usually do not vote for the tasks package but rather for the installed depedencies, right? > > chance to prominently be shown in the installer might be a motivation > > for multimedia maintainers to review the tasks (both team members who > > previously commited to Git in CC). > > > >> >> $ curl -s 'http://popcon.debian.org/by_inst' | grep -e '-tasks ' > >> >> 10053 education-tasks 983 355 448 173 7 > >> >> (Debian Edu Developers) > >> >> 10929 science-tasks83076 6605836 > >> >> (Debian Science Team) > >> >> 11000 junior-tasks 818 0 0 0 818 > >> >> (Debian Junior) > >> >> 15895 plasma-widget-smooth-tasks 37071 28514 0 > >> >> (Salvo Rinaldi) > >> >> 17234 gis-tasks305 0 0 0 305 > >> >> (Debian Gis Project) > >> >> 17279 med-tasks30426 2501117 > >> >> (Debian Med Packaging Team) > >> >> 21947 multimedia-tasks 166 0 0 0 166 > >> >> (Debian Multimedia Maintainers) > >> >> 32922 games-tasks 57 0 0 057 > >> >> (Debian Games Team) > >> >> 34392 debichem-tasks50 0 0 050 > >> >> (Debichem Team) > >> >> 35076 ezgo-tasks47 0 0 047 > >> >> (Debain Ezgo Packaging Team) > >> >> 41997 tine20-tasks 271311 1 2 (Not > >> >> in sid) > >> >> 69244 site-tasks 5 0 0 0 5 (Not > >> >> in sid) > >> >> 93698 agenda-tasks 1 1 0 0 0 (Not > >> >> in sid) > >> > > >> > (column 3 is install count among active popcon users; descending order) > > > > I think both criterions are not as objective as alphabetic order. Think of > > our language selection menu? Should we try to rank it according to the user > > base of a certain language or the translation status? I think this gets a > > clear "no". > > Very good point. I agree with this of course. :-) Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140903130938.gc32...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: Please be verbose whether you would like to get your Blend promoted by tasksel
Hi, On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 07:45:12AM +0200, Per Andersson wrote: > > I don't think this is a particularly good measure since the blends are > relatively unknown. I think it is not a measure for a sequence but rather a measure whether a Blend should be included or not. For instance I missed multimedia-tasks in my list (for the simple reason that I have not seen any relevant commit since nearly one year). But for sure multimedia is quite important for our users and perhaps the fact that there is a chance to prominently be shown in the installer might be a motivation for multimedia maintainers to review the tasks (both team members who previously commited to Git in CC). > >> $ curl -s 'http://popcon.debian.org/by_inst' | grep -e '-tasks ' > >> 10053 education-tasks 983 355 448 173 7 (Debian > >> Edu Developers) > >> 10929 science-tasks83076 6605836 (Debian > >> Science Team) > >> 11000 junior-tasks 818 0 0 0 818 (Debian > >> Junior) > >> 15895 plasma-widget-smooth-tasks 37071 28514 0 (Salvo > >> Rinaldi) > >> 17234 gis-tasks305 0 0 0 305 (Debian > >> Gis Project) > >> 17279 med-tasks30426 2501117 (Debian > >> Med Packaging Team) > >> 21947 multimedia-tasks 166 0 0 0 166 (Debian > >> Multimedia Maintainers) > >> 32922 games-tasks 57 0 0 057 (Debian > >> Games Team) > >> 34392 debichem-tasks50 0 0 050 > >> (Debichem Team) > >> 35076 ezgo-tasks47 0 0 047 (Debain > >> Ezgo Packaging Team) > >> 41997 tine20-tasks 271311 1 2 (Not in > >> sid) > >> 69244 site-tasks 5 0 0 0 5 (Not in > >> sid) > >> 93698 agenda-tasks 1 1 0 0 0 (Not in > >> sid) > > > > (column 3 is install count among active popcon users; descending order) > > It would also only rate Science, Edu, and Med (in that order) which might be > good top candidates anyway, but other blends have zero (0) installations > among active popcon users. So in any case, some ordering except popcon > install count is necessary. I'd consider alphabetic ordering as sensible enough. I would not (mis)use popcon stats as ordering criterion in this case. > I suppose questions regarding ordering can be: 1) What do we think Debian > users want to install? 2) Are there any blends in particular good shape? I think both criterions are not as objective as alphabetic order. Think of our language selection menu? Should we try to rank it according to the user base of a certain language or the translation status? I think this gets a clear "no". Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140903064011.ge23...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: Please be verbose whether you would like to get your Blend promoted by tasksel
Hi Franklin, On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 08:57:37AM +0800, Franklin Weng wrote: > > I think it should be also a criterion that the team behind the Blend > > confirms that they are interested and so I'm hereby pinging all lists in > > question to ask you for confirmation. I have set Reply-To to the bug > > report and the general Blends list in case you are interested in further > > discussion with other Blends. > > > > Debian ezgo blends is active. > (Is that what you meant to reply so that the blends can be kept active?) Ahh, sorry for leaving out EzGo in the list given in my initial bug report. What I really meant is: 1. Do you think Blends should be listed by tasksel at installation time. 2. Do you want to be Debian EzGo added to this list. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140828062346.gd23...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: Please be verbose whether you would like to get your Blend promoted by tasksel
Hi Mike, On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 07:08:27AM +, Mike Gabriel wrote: > > I guess this only makes sense if a Debian Edu machine (standalone) > can be installed via Debian's normal D-I, right? Why do you think only this is would make sense? IMHO it would make perfectly sense to feed a freshly installed box with educational software. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140827084321.ga25...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: Please be verbose whether you would like to get your Blend promoted by tasksel
Hi, yesterday I joined the videostream of the installer BoF at DebConf[1]. I also became a bit involved via IRC. Joey Hess raised the question about the criteria to add a Blend or not. I answered "all in the list of the bug report #758116" which IMHO fits the criterion of "actively maintained and some valuable content for users". I think it should be also a criterion that the team behind the Blend confirms that they are interested and so I'm hereby pinging all lists in question to ask you for confirmation. I have set Reply-To to the bug report and the general Blends list in case you are interested in further discussion with other Blends. Any input is welcome to make sure users will realise the fruits of your great work at the earliest point in time. Kind regards Andreas. [1] https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/44/debian-installer-and-cd-bof/ -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140826112723.ga26...@an3as.eu
Bug#758096: Filed Bug#758096: tasksel: Allow to select specific packages during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough
Hi Cyril, On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 12:28:52PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > Hi Andreas, > > Andreas Tille (2014-08-14): > > Beeing inspired by the recent discussion on Blends list, I'd like > > to add a pointer to the thread basically starting here: > > > >https://lists.debian.org/debian-blends/2014/08/msg4.html > > […] > > IMHO it would do a nice service to our users to promote these topics on > > our installers at the time when tasks will be selected. > > thanks but I'd rather not conflate both topics. thanks for the hint. I filed #758116 about this. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140814113234.ga3...@an3as.eu
Bug#758116: tasksel: Allow to select Blends selection during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough
Package: tasksel Version: 3.14.1 Severity: normal Tags: d-i Hi, beeing inspired by bug #758096 (I was asked to separate this topic from the topic of this bug) and the recent discussion on Blends list, I'd like to add a pointer to the thread basically starting here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-blends/2014/08/msg4.html Currently we can provide tasksel control files in the following Blends (packages): Debian Edu (edu-tasks) Debian Games (games-tasks) Debian GIS (gis-tasks) Debian Junior (junior-tasks) Debian Med (med-tasks) Debian Science (science-tasks) DebiChem (debichem-tasks) The packages contain a file /usr/share/tasksel/descs/-tasks.desc and the usual stuff in /usr/share/doc/ but nothing else. They are exclusively designed as tasksel input. IMHO it would do a nice service to our users to promote these topics on our installers at the time when tasks will be selected. Kind regards Andreas. -- System Information: Debian Release: 7.6 APT prefers stable APT policy: (500, 'stable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 3.2.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/1 CPU core) Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Versions of packages tasksel depends on: ii apt 0.9.7.9+deb7u2 ii debconf [debconf-2.0] 1.5.49 ii liblocale-gettext-perl 1.05-7+b1 ii perl-base 5.14.2-21+deb7u1 ii tasksel-data3.14.1 tasksel recommends no packages. tasksel suggests no packages. -- debconf information excluded -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140814112620.2992.16379.report...@mail.an3as.eu
Bug#758096: Filed Bug#758096: tasksel: Allow to select specific packages during installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough
Hi, On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 01:05:27PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote: > Just filed the bugreport for tasksel (being inspired by the gnome > discussion...) > > Bug#758096: tasksel: Allow to select specific packages during > installation - just "DE", "Web server", "Mail server" is NOT enough Beeing inspired by the recent discussion on Blends list, I'd like to add a pointer to the thread basically starting here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-blends/2014/08/msg4.html Currently we can provide tasksel control files in the following Blends (packages): Debian Edu (edu-tasks) Debian Games (games-tasks) Debian GIS (gis-tasks) Debian Junior (junior-tasks) Debian Med (med-tasks) Debian Science (science-tasks) DebiChem (debichem-tasks) The packages contain a file /usr/share/tasksel/descs/-tasks.desc and the usual stuff in /usr/share/doc/ but nothing else. They are exclusively designed as tasksel input. IMHO it would do a nice service to our users to promote these topics on our installers at the time when tasks will be selected. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140814095210.gk26...@an3as.eu
Re: Automatically created root partition seems to be quite small
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 09:26:49PM +0100, Julien Cristau wrote: > Please make a proper installation report including the log from your > install. There's just no way to fix anything with the info you > provided. Done: #693107. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121113080739.gc9...@an3as.eu
Automatically created root partition seems to be quite small
[Please CC me, I'm not subscribed] Hi, my son and me independently installed two boxes with the recent Wheezy beta installer. Everything went smooth so far - thanks for your fine work. However, I might like to question the choice of the automatically suggested size for the root partition (when always just pressing ). We both ended up with something that easily fills up for some kind of "not very specific" installation. I do not have direct access to his box but mine looks like $ LANG=C df -h | grep rootfs rootfs 331M 307M 7.5M 98% / after installing the set of packages I used on the box before. IMHO the dir $ LANG=C du -hs /lib/modules 200M/lib/modules is responsible for the problem because by doing simple apt-get dist-upgrade you can end up with some kernel package installed in parallel and an unexperienced user hardly will easily cope with the problem if its third kernel package will not simply install any more. Sorry if this was just reported, I'm not reading this list. If not I can easily turn this into a bug report in case you agree that this is a problem that should be dealt with. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121112134610.ge17...@an3as.eu
Re: RFC: bringing back task packages
[Not sure whether we should keep the long To: - list, I'd suggest continuing on debian-devel but keep it for the moment.] On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 07:20:30PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: > A long time ago, tasksel installed task packages, which were regular > metapackages. This was dropped because the task packages had to Depend > on many packages, which made the installed system brittle, and made > testing propigation a problem. Now that Recommends are installed by > default, I'm revisiting the idea of using task packages. It solves > many issues and inconsistencies with tasksel vs the rest of Debian. If I understand the consequences of the statement correctly I welcome this step very much. > ### blends > > I think there is interest in getting some blends displayed in Taskel? Yes, definitely! > It's mostly orthagonal to this proposal, but this would help with > giving you full control over what your tasks do. I do feel that blends > need to be listed below the other tasks in tasksel, and probably with > a divider between them. This would be an acceptable approach. > Also, we have been careful to only have ten > tasks, to avoid overloading the user; and there is a limit to the length > of the list before it begins scrolling, so the d-i team would have to > look at the UI before adding Blends to the interface. The requirement for a limited set of tasks to provide a good overview is reasonable but has two flavours: On one hand it restricts the number of Blends we can include into the list and on the other hand it might have an influence on the number of "tasks"[1] we are maintaining inside each Blend which exceeds 10 drastically at least for three Blends (the most active ones). >From my perspective the only reasonable solution for this "reduced number of list entries" requirement is to close bug #273797 and have a hierarchical task selection where you first select the Blend and than select a set of "tasks"[1] inside the Blend. [1] Remark: I have the feeling that in the Blends context we are using the term "task" in some different manner. While it was probably influenced by tasksel (and invented by the Debian Edu developers) it drifted a bit away somehow. I have the feeling that we should find a proper definition what we mean when talking about Blends. > ## Implementation Option A > > Put everything in the task package. > > ... > > ## Implementation Option B > > Keep Test-*, Enhances, Relevance, and Section in the debian-tasks.desc > file; move the other fields to the task packages. I'm afraid I do not fully understand the difference / consequences of these two options. Can you provide some short examples? Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110218134908.gh9...@an3as.eu
Successfully tried daily snapshot, however USB-install failed
Hi, I successfully installed a Fujitsu LifeBook S710 using daily snapshot from yesterday. There was one minor issue when it came to DHCP. Both network adapters (eth0, wlan0) were detected but I've got no IP via DHCP. This might or might not have reasons in our local DHCP setup. I continued without network configuration, rebootet and DHCP worked afterwards. So I'd call this a successful installation and wanted to report this here (hope this is the right place). Thanks to the d-i team! However, my first try was trying to install via USB stick following the advise given for EeePC[1] and used the boot.img.gz from. I verified that I was using the images from the very same day but after a successful boot the debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso file was either not found or could not be read. I gave up after some trials and burned the ISO on CD and continued "as usual". Kind regards Andreas. PS: I'm not subscribed to this list. If you need further information please keep me in CC. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/InstallUsingStandardInstaller [2] http://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/amd64/daily/ -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101006075331.gc10...@an3as.eu
Bug#471410: Installing accessibility packages by default?
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: I'll send you a patch to expand it to a somewhat bigger list. Great. It is applied and shows up at the tasks pages now. I'm sthibaul-guest on alioth. You are now able to commit the changes yourself. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#471410: Installing accessibility packages by default?
On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: $ apt-cache search accessibility which is quite weak. Tags FTW. Look for Accessibility tags and you'll find a lot of packages. Sure. But do all our package handling tool support DebTags? Are our users aware of DebTags. (Well I admit they might fail to find metapackages as well.) So I'd regard DebTags as a very important technique and joining DebTags information with Blends techniques is quite high on my todo list. Thinks of alternatives like http://blends.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks/ http://blends.alioth.debian.org/science/bugs/ Let me point out something which I think is important (even if I think that's not what you meant): accessibility is not a task. It's like i18n, it's orthogonal to tasks: for all the tasks above you actually need accessibility support. I perfectly got this information out of your last mail. But IMHO this is rather a question of terminology. I'd try to find out what might be helpful for users and IMHO the Blends technique is quite useful. Feel free to suggest a better terminus than task which fits all needs. I do not mean that the tool itself shouldn't be used of course. Fine. ;-) The admin, no, but you (the disabled person) do know and just ask your friend/coworker to run e.g. orca (already installed by default). With USB braille devices, it would even be possible to automatically start it, no even need to sudo. That's fine for this specific case. But my idea is that it is easier to ask for not by default installed packages on the phone line to your local admin if you have to ask for a single metapackage rather than a list of packages. While I share your point that a default machine should have all needed accessibility features there might be a list of "suggested" packages or even new packages. In the later case would an apt-get update be sufficient to include new software if the metapackage was properly adjusted and net even a phone call would be needed. The idea to iron out this knowledge inside the tasks files to enable admins who have not enough specific knowledge about the needs of their users is one means to help in this issue. Yes, we definitely need to have some sort of database that allows people to know the name of the tools they can try to use to help them anyway. Fine. That's what I'm talking about. So IMHO it makes sense to have a accessibility-gnome / accessibility-kde (perhaps accessibility-desktop) metapackages which are part of a default installation. Which can Depend/Recommend/Suggest depending on the criticity of the help provided by various packages: - can't use the computer without it (e.g. screen reader for blind people). - hard for me to use the computer without it (e.g. color scheme). - makes me more efficient (e.g. dasher). Yes, that's the idea. The advantage of using accessibility-gnome / accessibility-kde metapackages is that you can perfectly handle the dependencies inside the accessibility project because there will be no need to change d-i or the Gnome / KDE tasks. Yes, I also think that'd be better. IMHO yes - but in the way I suggested above and not by using explicite package names. Sure. We don't want to have to bother d-i each time new accessibility packages get added :) Fine. If you want to follow this idea I'd suggest the following things: 0. Try to convince listmaster to fix bug #514023 and subscribe the resulting mailing list debian-blends. I see a big need to have at least one member of the accessibility team lurking on the Blends list to make sure that we do not trap into the pitfalls of choosing narrow minded names (like tasks) or just do other things which are contra productive for your goal. 1. I used your nice classification page [1] to create the stuff you need to create tasks and bugs pages which are linked here: http://blends.alioth.debian.org/accessibility/ You can adjust the informatio in the related SVN svn://svn.debian.org/wsvn/blends/projects/accessibility/trunk/debian-accessibility/tasks Please read my comments and fix the info there! I can add you to the blends team or you can send me a patch. BTW, thanks to your fine software categorisation page the creation of the tasks files took me about 15 minutes. IMHO the result of the tasks and bugs pages is worth this effort. 2. Try to investigate whether something is wrong with your packages. a) http://blends.alioth.debian.org/accessibility/tasks/console.html says that these packages do not have a homepage. This is possibly not true but the control file of the package is lacking the Homepage field. If you fix the package control information the tasks page will be fixed after the next cron job run (twice a day). b) Consider group maintenance in a common repository - it has turned out a good means to fix things like missing Homepage
Bug#471410: Installing accessibility packages by default?
On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: It has been suggested a few times (471410, 511329, 516723) to add an "accessibility" item to tasksel, which would e.g. install gnome-accessibility. The task would be automatically selected when accessibility features was used during d-i itself. I wonder whether this effort might profit from maintaining metapackages for accessibility as it is done in the blends effort. The blends-dev has tasksel support as well - so it is easily possible to include accessibility related packages into tasksel. The extra profit would be that you can provide an easy overview about accesibility related programs in Debian - the only way I know is $ apt-cache search accessibility which is quite weak. Thinks of alternatives like http://blends.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks/ (which might even work for non native English speakers) and you also have a developer related overview about bugs http://blends.alioth.debian.org/science/bugs/ There is no extra effort to create these web pages once you defined the tasks. `While it is a possible approach to have the installer explicitly select packages for the users who are going to use the machine, it is also obvious that an administrator might not know in advance that a person with special needs is going to use this machine. If we think this through, we realize that what would be most desireable is to have accessibility infrastructure installed by default on a default desktop, so that a person with special needs can just activate it at login time if they need to.' I admit that my suggestion above does not really help in this aspect. On the other hand there were some ideas raised in the past to enable a user to install certain tasks quickly inside the Blends framework. Perhaps we should raise this topic again. `What if, for example, you walk up to a friend/coworker and talk about some issue. You end up wanting to show them something, so you'd actually like to login on tehir Linux machine with accessibility enabled so that you can work together on the project. However, since nobody thought their machine would ever be used by a disabled person, the necessary software would not be installed.' The problem is that the typical admin does not have the specific knowledge what actually is needed. The idea to iron out this knowledge inside the tasks files to enable admins who have not enough specific knowledge about the needs of their users is one means to help in this issue. `That is why I think ultimately, accessibility infrastructure needs to be part of the default desktop installation. There are a few other scenarios as well, like public workstations (for instance in universities) running Linux. Currently, for them to be accessible, the admin staff needs to know all the ins and outs of accessibility, or they at least have to make a conscious decission about providing it to users. If accessibility would work by default, the chance of success for disabled people trying to find an accessible computer would be much higher.' I perfectly see the point here. On the other hand I assume there are most probably urgently needed packages who should be installed per default and others which are just Recommended and Suggested. So IMHO it makes sense to have a accessibility-gnome / accessibility-kde (perhaps accessibility-desktop) metapackages which are part of a default installation. But most probably there are other packages which should be handled with different priority and you can perfectly handle these by using metapackages. The advantage of using accessibility-gnome / accessibility-kde metapackages is that you can perfectly handle the dependencies inside the accessibility project because there will be no need to change d-i or the Gnome / KDE tasks. They need only depend from one single package and you can change the dependencies on your own in case some additional packages will show up or some names will be changed for whatever reason. So, I'm asking: would it seem reasonable to ask tasksel to install accessibility packages along desktop packages? IMHO yes - but in the way I suggested above and not by using explicite package names. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Yet another list statistics for debian-boot
Hi, as you can read in my lightning talk at DebConf http://people.debian.org/~tille/talks/200808_lightning/ I did some investigation on who is frequently posting on our mailing lists. I now created graphs until end of last year and write a short summary for those lists I regard worth a comment. I'm not CCed to all of this list so if you want to discuss something please keep me in CC. If you want to discuss the results in general just write to debian-project. All graphs and the code that was used to create the graphs are available at http://people.debian.org/~tille/liststats/ If you are interested in a mailing list which was not analysed, just tell me. I was running the scripts on those lists I personally had some interest and those with more than 1000 subscribers. I plan to clean up code and write some doc about it but this will not happen in the next couple of weeks. The graph for this specific list is --- -- http://people.debian.org/~tille/liststats/authorstat_boot.pdf It's nice to have Frans Pop and cudos also to Otavio Salvador who becomes more and more involved. But IMHO such an important part of the Debian project needs definitely more activists. Anybody willing to help? Kind regards Andreas -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Installer Lenny Beta1
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, Otavio Salvador wrote: The Debian Installer team is pleased to announce the first beta of Debian Lenny's Installer. http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/lenny_di_beta1/ Just stumbled upon this by chance when I was looking for installer images for my new box and installed it successfully 4 hours ago. ;-) Many thanks for the fine work Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#401025: installation-report: Fails to mount encrypted LVM
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Frans Pop wrote: Let's keep this report focussed on the original problem. If you cannot reproduce that anymore, I'd suggest to just close it. As I promissed I will close the bug because I can not reproduce it. The second try worked - at least regarding the Cryped-LVM issue. I wonder whether I should open a new bug with the other problem of the broken mirror that puts the box in a state where it waits for a user input but there is no chance for the user to do any input. In general: Many thanks for the fine work. There is a *really* big difference compared to Sarge. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#401025: installation-report: Fails to mount encrypted LVM
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Frans Pop wrote: No, aptitude should not give that error. The most likely cause is that the mirror you are using was (temporarily) broken. This might be and using a different mirror (after killing aptitude) seems to work. On the other hand if a broken mirror might lead to a hanging install process we should handle this (in a different bug report probably). Please try again and/or try with a different mirror (ftp.nl.debian.org is usually good). If the problem persists, we'll have to look into the cause. But I would expect it to be a temporary problem due to mirror sync. Most probably. Let's keep this report focussed on the original problem. If you cannot reproduce that anymore, I'd suggest to just close it. Well, surely I would close the bug if I can not reproduce. Currently I've got the warning that there is no SWAP partition available (as I said I did not changed the default LVM settings which contained a swap). Currently the system is installing the packages selected via tasksel and I go into waiting mode and will continue later with my observations. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#401025: installation-report: Fails to mount encrypted LVM
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Frans Pop wrote:
Options to configure LVM will appear as soon as you mark a partition to be
used as "physical partition for LVM". See installation guide.
I was expecting it to be under the Encrypted LVM section and moreover I
had no idea how to use partman to resize LVM partitions - but this might
be just me. Anyway, I try to make things not more complicated and go the
suggested way accepting the partition sizes for /home, /usr, /var and /tmp.
Hmmm, at which stage should I do this? You mean, boot from the install
CD and once I can switch to a virtual console change the script?
Try the following:
- boot with "install priority=medium"
- proceed until the menu option for partitioning is highlighted (but don't
execute it yet)
- switch to VT2
- 'nano /lib/partman/definitions.sh' and add the line
- switch back to VT1
- run the menu option "Save logs" and start a webserver (assuming you
have a local net with a second box you can use to view the logs)
- run partman and try to reproduce the error
I did so - and by the way, the web interface to the logfile is *really*
great,you guys rock! - and I think I might run in a different problem.
While the progress bar stops at 5% as it did in my previous try, the
reason seems to be different, because /target/{home,tmp,usr,var} are
mounted and are quite empty. But if I look on the end of the logfile
I see the following problem (sorry for the German locale):
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: Die folgenden Pakete haben verletzte AbhÀngigkeiten:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: cupsys-bsd: Kollidiert: lpr aber 1:2006.11.04 soll
installiert werden.
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libc6-i686: HÀngt ab (vorher): libc6 (=
2.3.6.ds1-7) aber 2.3.6.ds1-8 soll installiert werden.
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: Resolving dependencies...
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: Die folgenden Aktionen werden diese AbhÀngigkeiten
auflösen:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: Beibehalten der folgenden Pakete in ihrer aktuellen Version:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: cupsys-bsd [Nicht installiert]
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: Aktualisieren der folgenden Pakete:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libc6-i686 [2.3.6.ds1-7 (, now) -> 2.3.6.ds1-8
(testing)]
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: Bewertungsnote betrÀgt -10049
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: WARNUNG: nichtvertrauenswÃŒrdige Versionen der folgenden Pakete werden installiert!
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: NichtvertrauenswÌrdige Pakete können die Sicherheit Ihres Systems gefÀhrden.
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: Sie sollten nur dann mit der Installation
fortfahren, wenn Sie sicher sind, dass
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: dies das ist, was Sie wollen.
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target:
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: xserver-xorg bluez-gnome gnome-keyring libpci2 libgnomecupsui1.0-1c2a
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libgtk2.0-common libopenexr2c2a gstreamer0.10-alsa menu-xdg
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: evolution-common libsdl1.2debian xserver-xorg-video-rendition
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: desktop-base libatk1.0-0 libsdl1.2debian-alsa gcj-4.1-base menu
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libcamel1.2-8 libgtkhtml3.8-15 libwpd8c2a libarts1c2a nano ispell
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: ibritish hdparm hibernate libglib-perl libxfixes3 wamerican bzip2
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: evolution-webcal kdelibs4c2a openoffice.org-gnome libartsc0
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: shared-mime-info gimp-print xsltproc libenchant1c2a notification-daemon
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libgnomevfs2-0 gcalctool libjaxp1.2-java iproute
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: gnome-desktop-environment sharutils xserver-xorg-input-evdev
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: cupsys-common xserver-xorg-video-newport libgail17 libisccc0
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: openoffice.org-core update-manager openoffice.org-writer gs-esp
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: python-gnome2 gnome-nettool python-support libparted1.7-1
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libgphoto2-port0 gnome-media libgcj7-0 libneon26 liblcms1
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: xserver-xorg-video-s3virge metacity epiphany-browser gnome-desktop-data
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: nautilus exim4-config gs-gpl libgnome2-0 libnfsidmap2 bind9-host
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libgksu1.2-0 xfonts-scalable libblkid1 openoffice.org-impress
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: mime-support libidn11 libgtop2-common libgstreamer0.10-0 libportaudio0
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libsensors3 libsasl2 xserver-xorg-video-all gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: xsane libavahi-compat-howl0 kde-i18n-de libgcj-bc libraw1394-8 telnet
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libbind9-0 xserver-xorg-video-apm libcaca0 bluetooth
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: xserver-xorg-video-ark libcomerr2 libiec61883-0 genisoimage
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: xserver-xorg-video-ati libdjvulibre15 lsof libwmf0.2-7 printconf
Dec 12 12:05:01 in-target: libnl1-p
Re: Bug#401025: installation-report: Fails to mount encrypted LVM
Sorry for the late reply. The forewarding via BTS to my mail address seems to be broken and I'm not subscribed to the list. Please CC me to ensure quick answer. > BTW, this seems to be a bug in installation-report: The installer > logs are not any more in /var/log/debian-installer but in > /var/log/installer. Where did you see the reference to /var/log/debian-installer? If I remember right when running reportbug installation-report . > I think the installation would have been completely clean if I would > not have decided for an encrypted LVM setup. As you can see above > no LVM devices are mounted. Did you do the partitioning manually or did you use the encrypted LVM option for guided partitioning? The later one. I would have liked to do manual partitioning, but I failed to find an option for this and thus I decided to go with the default and do repartitioning later. From the logs you provided, it looks like you may have hit a minor script error somewhere: Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): [: Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): /: unknown operand Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): [: Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): /boot: unknown operand Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): [: Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): /tmp: unknown operand Nov 30 10:18:47 main-menu[2237]: (process:12062): The challenge is finding out where... Could you try adding a line with 'set -x' at the top of /lib/partman/definitions.sh _before_ you start partitioning your drive and try to reproduce the error? That should give us an almost complete debug log of partman. Hmmm, at which stage should I do this? You mean, boot from the install CD and once I can switch to a virtual console change the script? I would happyly provide more info if I'm sure I understand you right. (Please CC me in case I miss your mail again.) Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#401025: installation-report: Fails to mount encrypted LVM
Hi, is there anything I could do or test I could run on the machine to provide more info and track down the problem? Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key (4.0/etch)?
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 04:50:29PM -0600, Peter Samuelson wrote: [Martin Zobel-Helas] gpg --recv-keys A70DAF536070D3A1 && (gpg --export -a A70DAF536070D3A1 | apt-key add -) Uh, don't forget the part about verifying that the key is actually signed by the ftpmasters. Skipping that step pretty much defeats the entire point. gpg --list-sigs A70DAF536070D3A1 Try gpg --check-sigs A70DAF536070D3A1 instead. But Hendrik Sattler is perfectly right and this knowledge has to be stored at prominant places like: a) installation manual b) apt-key.8 c) perhaps somewhere else Could maintainers of a) and b) (and perhaps c) ;-)) acknowledge, that this will be done or should we rather file bug reports (IMHO with severity "important") to these packages? Kind regards Andreas. PS: debian-boot@lists.debian.org in CC because of the installation manual issue. Forgive me if this should be off-topic there. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#394744: Package: installation-reports
2006/10/22, Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I'm going to have to close this installation report as a "successful install" because AFAICT the installer did everything right. If a device is not supported in the kernel, there is very little we can do. Sure. My intention was to announce a "success so far as you can do". The additional hint I wanted to give is that there should be some easily detectable information for newbies if something like that happens. I would think the following would be helpful (for instance in the case of a not detected NIC): Your computer contains a network card `output of lspci | grep Ethernet` This is card seems not to be supported by the current installation kernel of Debian GNU/Linux. (Don't know whether this is a reasonable guess because there might be other types of failure.) You might try to ask your favourite Search Engine to browse the internet for "Debian Linux `string from above`" or ask debian-user for further help. The problem is that I wanted to demonstrate a newbie how easy it is to install Debian on his fresh box, but failed and there was no clue given what to do next. I do not want to blame the installer for failing where it has no chance to success but we could try to give at least some information how to proceed now. I admit I have not read the installation manual and perhaps some information is given there. But even then my suggestion above should be turned into: Please read installation manual topic "Trouble shooting (or whatever)". Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#394744: Package: installation-reports
Package: installation-reports Boot method: CD Image version: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/arch-latest/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso from Oct 17, 2006 Date: Oct 20, 2006 Machine: PC (assembled at local dealer) Processor: AMD Sempron AM2 3000+ 256kB (FSB 1600 MHz) Memory: 1024MB DDR2-533 CL4 Partitions: two partitions of the wrong OS (sorry my son buyed it ;-)) and /, /usr, /var, /home for Linux Output of lspci and lspci -n: lspci: 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT3351 Host Bridge 00:00.1 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT3351 Host Bridge 00:00.2 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT3351 Host Bridge 00:00.3 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT3351 Host Bridge 00:00.4 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT3351 Host Bridge 00:00.5 PIC: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT3351 I/O APIC Interrupt Controller 00:00.7 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT3351 Host Bridge 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. [K8T890 North / VT8237 South] PCI Bridge 00:02.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8T890 PCI to PCI Bridge Controller 00:03.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8T890 PCI to PCI Bridge Controller 00:03.1 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8T890 PCI to PCI Bridge Controller 00:03.2 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8T890 PCI to PCI Bridge Controller 00:03.3 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8T890 PCI to PCI Bridge Controller 00:0f.0 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237A SATA 2-Port Controller (rev 80) 00:0f.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 07) 00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev a0) 00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev a0) 00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev a0) 00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev a0) 00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86) 00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237A PCI to ISA Bridge 00:11.7 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8251 Ultra VLINK Controller 00:13.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237A Host Bridge 00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration 00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 02:01.0 Audio device: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA High Definition Audio Controller (rev 10) 05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 01) 06:00.0 IDE interface: JMicron Technologies, Inc. JMicron 20360/20363 AHCI Controller (rev 02) 07:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 71c6 07:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 71e6 lspci -n 00:00.0 0600: 1106:0351 00:00.1 0600: 1106:1351 00:00.2 0600: 1106:2351 00:00.3 0600: 1106:3351 00:00.4 0600: 1106:4351 00:00.5 0800: 1106:5351 00:00.7 0600: 1106:7351 00:01.0 0604: 1106:b999 00:02.0 0604: 1106:a238 00:03.0 0604: 1106:c238 00:03.1 0604: 1106:d238 00:03.2 0604: 1106:e238 00:03.3 0604: 1106:f238 00:0f.0 0101: 1106:0591 (rev 80) 00:0f.1 0101: 1106:0571 (rev 07) 00:10.0 0c03: 1106:3038 (rev a0) 00:10.1 0c03: 1106:3038 (rev a0) 00:10.2 0c03: 1106:3038 (rev a0) 00:10.3 0c03: 1106:3038 (rev a0) 00:10.4 0c03: 1106:3104 (rev 86) 00:11.0 0601: 1106:3337 00:11.7 0600: 1106:287e 00:13.0 0604: 1106:337b 00:18.0 0600: 1022:1100 00:18.1 0600: 1022:1101 00:18.2 0600: 1022:1102 00:18.3 0600: 1022:1103 02:01.0 0403: 1106:3288 (rev 10) 05:00.0 0200: 10ec:8168 (rev 01) 06:00.0 0101: 197b:2363 (rev 02) 07:00.0 0300: 1002:71c6 07:00.1 0380: 1002:71e6 Base System Installation Checklist: [O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it Initial boot worked:[O] Configure network HW: [E] Config network: [ ] Detect CD: [O] Load installer modules: [O] Detect hard drives: [O] Partition hard drives: [O] Create file systems:[O] Mount partitions: [O] Install base system:[O] Install boot loader:[O] Reboot: [O] Comments/Problems: Well, the kernel does not contain the driver for 05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 01) Subsystem: ASRock Incorporation Unknown device 8168 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 10 I/O ports at c800 [size=256] Memory at fe9ff000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Expansion ROM at fe9c [disabled] [size=128K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [48] Vital Product Data Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Inter
D-i Beta or daily build
Hi, I want to setup a machine from scratch (Compaq Proliant ML530 with fibre network adapter) and I wonder, whether I should use http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/etch_d-i/beta1/i386/iso-cd/ which is a little bit old (November 5, 2005) or rather http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/etch_d-i/current/i386/iso-cd/ which might be broken (in the past I had some problems with Sarge-daily builds - this might have changed). Kind regards Andreas. PS: Please CC me, because I'm not subscribed. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Install report with pre2
Hi, just one minor glitch: I had to use boot floppys because a machine had trouble booting from CD. This worked fine using the three provided disk images (boot + root + cddriver). But from the moment when control went over to the CD the language and keyboard settings were lost. I had to go back to these settings and then all went fine. A further question: IMHO the only possibility to use DMA for IDE disks is hdparm. Why is hdparm not installed by default and verified the DMA modus to gain maximum performance from modern IDE drives? Kind regards Andreas. PS: Please CC me - I'm not subscribed. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#273797: tasksel needs tree structure
Package: tasksel Version: 2.12 Severity: wishlist Hello, tasksel now supports selection of Debian-Edu tasks. This is a big advantage because we could adopt this for other Custom Debian Distributions as well and it might be a workaround for bug #186085. On the other hand kind of a tree structure has to be implemented to handle Custom Debian Distributions right. This tree selection scheme is quite useful for modern selections of tasks with sub-tasks. Thus I would suggest the following enhancement: [ ] Desktop environment [ ] ... [ ] SQL database --- [+] Debian-Edu [+] Debian-Junior [+] ... -- [ ] Manual package selection where [+] means a selection of this item unfolds the according branch for more fine grained selection (while having an option to select the complete task. Additionally I'd like to suggest to add command line options which enable to select only from "sub tasks". If you have education-tasks installed the tasksel menu looks confusing for people who want to install a "normal" task because the whole selection screen shows education related tasks until the user scrolls down (which would be solved by the suggested tree view). On the other hand users who only want educational tasks might be confused by the "normal" tasks which do not fit into the education specific stuff. So a command line option tasksel -T debian-edu which immediately switches to only Debian-Edu tasks could solve this quite elegant. Surely a default interface for all Custom Debian Distributions has to be implemented. The current approach to put task files under /usr/share/tasksel/task-files would not work here. I would see two options for this: 1) Put task files under /usr/share/cdd/ and let tasksel check this directory for installed files. This has the implicite restriction that it is reduced to Custom Debian Distributions but on the other hand all CDDs are in a common place. 2) Put task files under /usr/share/tasksel/tasks/ This leaves some space also for other future sub tasks. Thanks for maintaining tasksel Andreas. -- System Information: Debian Release: 3.1 APT prefers testing APT policy: (501, 'testing'), (50, 'unstable') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.8 Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ignored: LC_ALL set to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Versions of packages tasksel depends on: ii aptitude 0.2.15.7-1 terminal-based apt frontend ii debconf [debconf-2.0] 1.4.30.5 Debian configuration management sy ii liblocale-gettext-perl1.01-17Using libc functions for internati -- debconf information: tasksel/title: tasksel/first: tasksel/tasks: -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation failure
On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Joey Hess wrote: Andreas Tille wrote: # fdisk /dev/hda Unable to open /dev/hda # cfdisk /dev/hda FATAL ERROR: Cannot open disk drive The debian installer uses devfs. Well that means exactly what if it does not detect the harddisk? It only means that my manual intervention was bound to fail but it does not solve the problem that the installer was not able to find any disk when it startet the partitioning step. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Installation failure
Hello, I failed to install the daily build installer CD from 09/02/2004 on a AMD Duron 800 MHz with a 80GB harddisk which was not detected by the install kernel. The syslog messages were equal to the ones below but neither the normal install routine nor fdisk or cfdisk on a text console where able to find the device /dev/hda: # fdisk /dev/hda Unable to open /dev/hda # cfdisk /dev/hda FATAL ERROR: Cannot open disk drive When consulting the BIOS at startup: CHS=38322/16/255 An older Knoppix showed better behaviour (the latest one = 3.6 also failed to start and ha obvious trouble with the hard disk) and I was able to run cfdisk on the harddisk and copy the Debian installation manually to the box and got it up and running now. The problem seems not to occure with installed kernels. Here are the relevant syslog entries which look like the same for the installed system and the installation process: # grep -i hda /var/log/syslog Sep 5 20:06:00 buran kernel: ide0: BM-DMA at 0xd000-0xd007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio Sep 5 20:06:00 buran kernel: hda: MAXTOR 6L080J4, ATA DISK drive Sep 5 20:06:00 buran kernel: hda: max request size: 128KiB Sep 5 20:06:00 buran kernel: hda: 156355584 sectors (80054 MB) w/1819KiB Cache, CHS=65535/16/63, UDMA(100) ... But running lilo shows a strange warning which might be a hint for the problem: # lilo -v LILO version 22.5.9, Copyright (C) 1992-1998 Werner Almesberger Development beyond version 21 Copyright (C) 1999-2004 John Coffman Released 08-Apr-2004, and compiled at 15:30:00 on Aug 15 2004 Debian GNU/Linux Reading boot sector from /dev/hda Warning: Kernel & BIOS return differing head/sector geometries for device 0x80 Kernel: 65535 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 sectors BIOS: 1024 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors Using MENU secondary loader Calling map_insert_data ... Anybody has a clue here? Kind regards Andreas. PS: Please CC me, I'm not subscribed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#186085: acknowledged by developer (Bug#186085: fixed in tasksel 2.01)
Hi, the latest bug which was mentioned explicitely in our docs was now closed. This might be good news - but it is closed in a way we do not really like. The bug was filed to *add* Custom Distributions which are not in tasksel but it was solved in *removing* the CDD (debian-jr) from tasksel. So now all CDDs are handled the same, but this does not really help. IMHO this increases the need for finding a method which brings up a CDD - selection method in the very beginning of the installation process. What do you think about this? Kind regards Andreas. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:18:10 -0700 From: Debian Bug Tracking System <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Bug#186085 acknowledged by developer (Bug#186085: fixed i tasksel 2.01) This is an automatic notification regarding your Bug report #186085: tasksel: Please add Debian-Med to the list of tasks, which was filed against the tasksel package. ... - Adopted new, stricter criteria for task additions. Removed the foll tasks, which did not meet it: c-dev, java-dev, python-dev, broadban dialup, laptop, junior, kernel-compile, science, tex, games, lsb, unix-server. Some of these (laptop, etc) could be reinstated if tes were developed for them. Closes: #192747, #249309, #234393, #202878, #249702, #142873, #1860 Closes: #237255, #245649, #254329 ~ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#252588: install: Installation fails on Sparc Ultra 10
Package: install Severity: important The bug report is related to the following ISO images: http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/sarge_d-i/sparc/20040602/sarge-sparc-businesscard.iso http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/sarge_d-i/sparc/tc1/sarge-sparc-netinst.iso http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/sarge_d-i/sparc/beta4/sarge-sparc-businesscard.iso All these three were tested with the identical result. The boot process stops with the following error TCP: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0 cramfs: wrong magic sh-2021: reiserfs_read_super: can not find reiserfs on ramdisk(1,0) Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00 Press L1-A to return to the boot prom This is the case on a Sun Ultra 5/10 UPA/PCI (UltraSPARC-IIi 333MHz) OpenBoot 3.15, 256 MB memory installed machine. Kind regards Andreas. -- System Information: Debian Release: testing/unstable APT prefers testing APT policy: (499, 'testing'), (50, 'unstable') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.4.22 Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ignored: LC_ALL set to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Testing Beta 4 on Sparc Ultra 10
BTW, because there was an answer to the previous mail with subject: "Make tc1 more visible?" I can ensure you that the bug is *not* fixed in the daily build from today! On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Andreas Tille wrote: > TCP: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0 > cramfs: wrong magic > sh-2021: reiserfs_read_super: can not find reiserfs on ramdisk(1,0) > Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00 > Press L1-A to return to the boot prom There is absolutely no change and the problem exists in the latest d-i from today. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Testing Beta 4 on Sparc Ultra 10
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Peter wrote: > What is this tcl version btw? The login screen says: Sun Ultra 5/10 UPA/PCI (UltraSPARC-IIi 333MHz), Keyboard Present OpenBoot 3.15, 256 MB memory installed, Serial #10648638 After pressing -A I tried: ok probe-ide Device 0 ( Primary Master ) ATA Model: SAMSUNG SP0411N Device 1 ( Primary Slave ) Not Present Device 0 ( Secondary Master ) Removable ATAPI Model: CDR-8322B Device 1 ( Secondary Slave ) Not Present So this looks nice... Then I tried ok boot cdrom and voila - we are one step further ... Welcome to Debian GNU/Linux sarge! This is Debian isnatllation CDROM, built on 20040530. [...] After rpessng enter and some messages from SILO about the memory which was allocated and the Kernel which is booted I've seen the Linux Penguin. But not all went fine and I'm now busy to type the screen for debugging purpose (wished cut-n-paste would work ;-) ) I use [...] where I leave out information which seems irrelevant for me. Sun TYPE 5 keyboard detected without keyclick SAB82532 serial driver version 1.65 ttyS00 at [...] ttyS01 at [...] power: Control reg at [...] ... powerd running. Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4 Based upon [...] Initializing [...] Starting kswapd VFS: Disk quotas vdquot_6.5.1 Journalled Block Device driver loaded devfs: v1.12c (20020818) Richard Gooch [...] devfs: boot_options: 0x1 atyfb: 3D RAGE PRO (PQFP, PCI) [...] SABRE0: Uncorrectable Error, primary error type[DMA Read: Translation Error] SABRE0: bytemask[ff00] dword_offset[1] was_block(1) SABRE0: UE AFAR [10883b48] SABRE0: UE Secondary errors [(none)] SABRE0: IOMMU Error, type[Invalid Error] SABRE0: IOMMU TAG(0)[RAW(00c60769)error(Invalid Error)wr(0)sz(8K)vpg(c0ed2000)] SABRE0: IOMMU DATA(0)[RAW(6fe0)valid(1)used(1)cache(0)ppg() Console: switching to colour frame buffer device 160x64 fb0: ATY Mach64 frame buffer device on PCI pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured rtc_init: no PC rtc found Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M FDC 0 is a National Semiconductor PC87306 RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 8192K size 1024 blocksize loop: loaded (max 8 devices) sunhme.c:v2.01 26/Mar/2002 David [...] eth0: HAPPY MEAL (PCI/CheerIO) 10/100BaseT Ethernet [...] Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4 ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; [...] CMD646: IDE controller at PCI slot 01:03.0 CMD646: chipset revision 3 CMD646: chipset revision 0x03, MultiWord DMA Force Limited CMD646: 100% native mode on irq 4,7e0 ide0: BM-DMA at [...] ide1: BM-DMA at [...] hda: SAMSUNG SP0411N, ATA DISK drive ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; [...] hdc: CRD-8322B, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive ide0 at [...] on irq 4,7e0 ide1 at [...] on irq 4,7e0 (shared with ide0) hda: attached ide-disk driver. hda: 78242976 sectors (40060 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=4870/255/63, (U)DMA Partition check: /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0: unknown partition table SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00 kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k scsi_hostadapter, errno = 2 usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs usb.c: registered new driver hub host/usb-uhci.c: $Revision [...] host/usb-uhci.c: [...] host/usb-uhci.c: [...] usb.c: registered new driver usbmouse usbmouse.c: [...] usb.c: registered new driver usbkbd usbkbd.c: [...] mice: PS/2 mouse device common for all mice Initializing Cryptographic API NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0 IP: routing cache hash table of 4096 buckets, 32Kbytes TCP: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0 cramfs: wrong magic sh-2021: reiserfs_read_super: can not find reiserfs on ramdisk(1,0) Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00 Press L1-A to return to the boot prom sunmouse: Successfully adjusted to 1200 baud. Damn, now I'm in need of a coffee break but I was told to be as verbose as possible and so I did ... I have not the slightest idea why the RAM disk should be formatted as ReiserFS and I guess here some Problems with the Beta 4 installer. Should I try a daily build instead? Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Testing Beta 4 on Sparc Ultra 10
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Christian Perrier wrote: > Could you try the tc1 version ? > > http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/sarge_d-i/sparc/tc1/sarge-sparc-netinst.iso It was absolutely the same behaviour as I described in my posting at http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2004/06/msg00092.html That's why I hope to get some further help from debian-sprac (sorry for the cross-posting). Is there anything I should do after removing a broken 10GB IDE disk and inserting a new factored 40GB disk? I can not exclude any hardware problems and so may be debian-boot is not the best list. > AFAIK, there hasn't been test on such Sparc64 system (it is Sparc64, > right?) People on debian-sparc will know surely ... > so your report will be deeply awaited...:-) I'm willing to report surely. Perhaps somebody might be able to provide simple boot floppies to exclude problems with the IDE system? Kind regards Andreas. PS: I'm not subscribed to both list so please CC me. Thanks.
Testing Beta 4 on Sparc Ultra 10
Hi, some days ago the hard disk of my Ultra Sparc 10 was blown away. I wanted to use this as good chance to test debian-installer and got http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/sarge_d-i/sparc/beta4/sarge-sparc-businesscard.iso Unfortunately the machine says: Bad magic number in disk label Can't open disk label package Bad magic number in disk label Can't open disk label package Boot device: net File and args: Timeout waiting for ARP/RARP packet Timeout waiting for ARP/RARP packet ... I guess the one of the problematic disks is the new IDE hard disk which I inserted but I have no idea why the CD drive is not detected. Any hints here? Is anybody able to provide boot floppies for Sparc testing purposes? Or any hints how to proceed with tftp installation. I remember I did a tftp netboot install some years ago with a potato box. Any document what to do with Sarge installer? Kind regards Andreas. Please CC me, because I'm not subscribed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
German translations (Was: Install report)
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Christian Perrier wrote: > Well, we have a tool for translators for checking unstranslated stuff, > but there are some cases where, even if the string is translated, the > translations is not shown by debconf. So, this is why you may be asked > about what you found. I did a further installation and has something to report for the translation team: 1. (at the second screen after boot and selected German language): On top: "Wählen Sie die Tastaturbelegung aus" (= nicely printed Umlauts) Below: "Wählen Sie das Tastaturlayout für die PC-Tastatur" (= smells like an UTF-8 problem) 2. Not related to translation in the first place, but ... If there are large partitions to format some status / progress bar might help. At least a message: "Formating harddisk - this might take some time." would be necessary IMHO. 3. The screens "Execute a shell" "Install Lilo" and perhaps some more are not yet translated into German. Sorry I was not able to detect the untranslated screen I mentioned above because my install failed to install a kernel image and had to work around some other problems so I did not faced the install step two after reboot. (This was mentioned in a former mail.) Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report: kernel-image*.deb is missing
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Eric Bus wrote: > I used apt-get to install kernel-image-2.4.24-1-686. When you get the > LILO (or GRUB) configuration screen, press ALT-F2, Enter (which will > give you an linux prompt). Type 'apt-get install > kernel-image-2.4.24-1-686' (or change 686 to another arch if you're > using a pre-PentiumIII machine). It should download and install the kernel. Uhmm - that's a nice feature which I did not expected. I've thought I would have to do some magic because the installation goes to /target and thus I downloaded a kernel-image package and tried manual installation which failed. :-( > Now return to the installer by pressing ALT-F1. You should still see the > LILO (or GRUB) configuration window. Press enter to accept the default > (if that's ok for you, but for many people it is) and it should install > LILO. You can see the progress on the screen when pressing ALT-F3. OK, I'll keep this information for the next installation - for the moment I switched to an old woody install cd and upgraded ... > Btw, LI (and no LO) problems most often occur when you 'change' the > kernel without updating LILO. Sure - but there was nothing to change ... Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report: kernel-image*.deb is missing
On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Eric Bus wrote: > I have the same problem with d-i images from 20040131 and up. But I can > install the kernel from tty2. I have no idea why it skips it during > base-system-installation. Well - I trried that as well but I'm not clever enough to do it without dpkg-. I tried to "ar x" a manually grabbed kernel-package and untared it but I was nnot able to boot from this partition. Moreover I tried to copy a knoppix kernel but it failed as well. While fiddling around I noticed that the businesscard iso does not work as Rescue Disc. I hope that this feature will not be left out inn general. Do you have any step by step workaround to get a working kernel? Kind regards Andreas. PS: Please CC me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Install report: kernel-image*.deb is missing
Hi, I tried d-i image from today (6.2.2004) and noticed that grub and lilo installation failed. The reason is that there was no kernel on the /target at all. When I looked at the apt cache there was no kernel-image* package avialable. Just a quick note - I try to save all relevant information. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Steve Langasek wrote: > severity 226742 grave Thanks for adjusting this and sharing my opinion. BTW, I had the same observation that in the first install process the keyboard was adjusted fine and after the reboot changing the keymap failed. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Christian Perrier wrote: > Well, we have a tool for translators for checking unstranslated stuff, > but there are some cases where, even if the string is translated, the > translations is not shown by debconf. So, this is why you may be asked > about what you found. I hereby promise to write it down on my next install which will be next week or the week after the next week. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 Christian Perrier wrote: > This is a known console-data bug...not BTS available to me currently > but it is easy to find. Yes, I found it immediately after my posting to this list: #226742. The problem is that I think it should be of RC priority if we would not like to leave all people with non-EN keyboards alone. Please comment on this whether I'm overreacting and perhaps some knowledgeable person could find a fix, because it smells not very complicated for a person who is involved. We just should make sure that this will be fixed before release! Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report
> > I tried the German installation and I think I found only one not yet translated > > screen - so thanks to all the translators as well. > > Which one? Damn - I forgot it because I've thought there would be a tool which shows untranslated stuff, but it's no problem I'll do a further install in the next couple of days and will report it. Kind regards Andreas. PS: I'm not subscribed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Joey Hess wrote: > Please file a bug report on console-data. I checked this immediately after sending my first mail and found #226742. I added my observation and the opinion that Severity "normal" is to low in this case. I'm not an installer expert but from a installer point of view I would make it "RC" because many boxes end up "unusable" from a beginners point of view. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install report
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Steve Langasek wrote: > I would prefer to always offer security.d.o (and default to yes) > regardless of what distro is being installed. For one thing, users may > install from the beta while sarge==testing, and want to use security > updates afterwards once it becomes stable, and having this already in > sources.list may be an important reminder to some admins. This makes sens, but only if "sarge" would be offered in the menu. Moreover I wonder if a "list of distributions" would make sense while the "stablest" has the highest priority (via a generated preferences file). This auto generated preferences files has the additional advantage that beginners learn to know that this feature exists. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Install report
Hi, at first thanks for all your fine work at d-i. I never installed a Debian box so easy and so fast as with http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/testing/netinst/i386/daily/sarge-i386-businesscard.iso (downloaded today size = 38535168 time = 2004-01-11 23:17). I tried the German installation and I think I found only one not yet translated screen - so thanks to all the translators as well. Only some minor issues could be solved better: 1. I selected "testing" as distribution. In this case it makes no sense to include security.debian.org into source.list. I would include a check here whether the distribution is stable and if not security should be left out here. 2. A more serious problem is that the keymap was not set correctly. I verified this by dpkg-reconfigure console-data (selected: qwertz / German / Standard / latin1 - no dead keys) and got the following stderr output: Looking for keymap to install: de-latin1-nodeadkeys KDGKBENT at index 128 in table 0: Invalid argument Failed to dump keymap! This might be because your console cannot be opened. Perhaps you don't have video card, are connected via the serial console or ssh. Not loading keymap! This is a real bug which should be fixed. Kind regards Andreas. PS: I'm not subscribed to this list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#155374: Bug#190592: pending meaning change
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Anthony Towns wrote: > The definition of the "pending" tag has been changed to: > > ] pending > ] A solution to this bug has been found and an upload will be > ] made soon. > > The (release critical) bugs above have been tagged pending for over a > month, so by the new definition the tag appears to not apply to the above > bugs. Thanks for reminding me. It was intended in exactly this meaning but unfortunately I did not managed before Debconf and my vacation. I think I'll settle down with this (not to hard because I'm also upstream author) problem ion this week. Kind regards and see you on next Debconf :) Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian installer test
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Matt Kraai wrote: > What was the error message you saw when you tried to load it > through debian-installer? Uhm, sorry, forgot to notice that. Perhaps I should try another box which is not yet installed. Something like not found ... > > installer[4621]: receive_packet failed on eth0: Network is down > > installer[4621]: DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 intervall 8 > > installer[4621]: send_packet: Network is down > > installer[4621]: DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 intervall 18 > > installer[4621]: send_packet: Network is down > > installer[4621]: ... > > installer[4621]: No DHCPOFFERS received. > > installer[4621]: No working leases in persistent database > > The "applet not found" error sounds like you loaded the > busybox-cvs udeb, which doesn't contain ifconfig. Well I tried several things to load to fix the situation. I'm not sure about the applet stuff but the other lines are probably the same with or without busybox. By the way - I really do not see the sense of this busybox thingy. May be I would have to read some documentation but I've thought debian-installer should be manageable without having to read any docs ... Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian installer test
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Cardenas wrote: > > 1. nb_NO (default) > > 2. nn_NO > > 3. se_NO > > 4. lv_LV > > > > oh, and I forgot to file a bug for this, but for god's sake the > locales need more descriptive names! I personally have no idea what > those locales stand for. if they're not going to have better names, > they need to be outside of the default priority level question set. I guess Tollef just inserted all Norvegian locales ... Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
