Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Tollef Fog Heen]

* Jordi Mallach 

| On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 09:29:36AM +0100, Radovan Garabik wrote:
| > not really, since Danish and German are germanic languages, so
| > it is similar to asking English users to install in Dutch :-)
| > You can group Danish, Swedish and both Norwegians together, though.
| 
| Ah, so it was Swedish what I thinking about.

You'd probably rather fall back from Danish to Norwegian (Bokmål),
then Swedish, since written Norwegian Bokmål is nearly the same as
Danish.  Swedish is a bit more different.

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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Jordi Mallach]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 09:29:36AM +0100, Radovan Garabik wrote:
> not really, since Danish and German are germanic languages, so
> it is similar to asking English users to install in Dutch :-)
> You can group Danish, Swedish and both Norwegians together, though.

Ah, so it was Swedish what I thinking about.

> Speakign of this - there shoud really be a way to do fallback to 
> other languages for untranslated strings. (I don't know if it
> is working or being worked on...)

If you mean for boot-floppies, I don't think so. For normal operation:

LANG=da_DK
LANGUAGE=da_DK:sv_SE:nb_NO

Should give you da, or sv, or nb or fall back to the original language.

I hope. :)

Jordi
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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Radovan Garabik]

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 01:56:39PM +, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 02:42:10PM +0100, Jordi Mallach wrote:
> > 
> > Right, Catalan users could install using Spanish or French, depending
> > where they live. Danish users could install using (I hope I'm not
> > mistaken) German, probably.
> 
> I believe that you're mistaken. Danish and German are *very* different.
> It's similar to asking English users to install in French ;-) 
> 

not really, since Danish and German are germanic languages, so
it is similar to asking English users to install in Dutch :-)
You can group Danish, Swedish and both Norwegians together, though.

Speakign of this - there shoud really be a way to do fallback to 
other languages for untranslated strings. (I don't know if it
is working or being worked on...)



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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 03:07:29PM +0100, Jordi Mallach wrote:
> > I believe that you're mistaken. Danish and German are *very* different.
> > It's similar to asking English users to install in French ;-) 
> 
> Erm... I knew this would happen ;)
> 
I knew it too :P

Javi


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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Jordi Mallach]

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 01:56:39PM +, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
> > Right, Catalan users could install using Spanish or French, depending
> > where they live. Danish users could install using (I hope I'm not
> > mistaken) German, probably.
> I believe that you're mistaken. Danish and German are *very* different.
> It's similar to asking English users to install in French ;-) 

Erm... I knew this would happen ;)

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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 02:42:10PM +0100, Jordi Mallach wrote:
> 
> Right, Catalan users could install using Spanish or French, depending
> where they live. Danish users could install using (I hope I'm not
> mistaken) German, probably.

I believe that you're mistaken. Danish and German are *very* different.
It's similar to asking English users to install in French ;-) 

> Jordi
> -- 

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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Jordi Mallach]

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 08:36:02AM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
> Neither do I, but when we are talking priorities for inclusion I would
> weigh this kind of information rather heavily.  So if it were up to me
> (which it isn't), I would not chop Polish in favour of Catalan; and if
> there is going to be more languages on a second floppy (hi Claus), I'd
> probably put Catalan there and leave Polish on the first.

Right, Catalan users could install using Spanish or French, depending
where they live. Danish users could install using (I hope I'm not
mistaken) German, probably. But then, what's the point of doing this
huge work by the Catalan and Danish teams? If they have worked to have
everything completely up to date, I think it should be rewarded. I
believe it's preferable to not ship with something half done or completely
useless (say, ship woody with a Polish translation of the Potato release
notes). Anyway, Phil committed a solution for the CD's, which I guess is
what most of the people will end up using. Creating customized floppies
isn't as hard as doing custom CDs, so I'm personally happy with this.

Jordi
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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Chris Tillman]

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 12:54:37PM +, Phil Blundell wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-03-06 at 10:33, Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote:
> > Perhaps if you put all the localisation data for each language into a
> > separate file that is searched for in the root directory of the
> > floppy, then people could download a localisation file separately and
> > copy it onto the floppy. It wouldn't then matter so much which
> > localisations are included with the standard floppy image. Also, it
> > would be possible to add and update localisations without rereleasing
> > the floppy image.
> 
> The image on the root floppy disk is compressed, which will make it
> awkward for users to add extra files there.
> 
> I've checked in some changes to the boot-floppies to allow extra
> language catalogs to be shipped on the CD.  This is obviously no help to
> people who are booting from floppy disk, but it's probably better than
> nothing.
> 
> For those on debian-boot, the drill is that dbootstrap searches for
> extra languages in /.xlp/messages.XX on the CD during program startup. 
> Any catalogs it finds are copied into /etc from where LC will pick them
> up.  The build process creates an archive xlp.tgz containing the
> catalogs for everything in $(langs), and i386-specials/mini-iso.sh knows
> how to put it onto the CD.

Does this code check to be sure it's not exceeding the ramdisk's capacity?
That's pretty easy to do (exceed it, I mean). And it would create a hard-to-
track-down problem.

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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS]

Perhaps if you put all the localisation data for each language into a
separate file that is searched for in the root directory of the
floppy, then people could download a localisation file separately and
copy it onto the floppy. It wouldn't then matter so much which
localisations are included with the standard floppy image. Also, it
would be possible to add and update localisations without rereleasing
the floppy image.

When implementing something like that you should be careful to treat
all languages symmetrically, so you can correct a typo in the English
version without having to update every other language as a
consequence.

Of course, this doesn't answer the question of what to do with woody's
boot-floppies.

Edmund


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Re: Demographic analysis of debian user's language (was Re: b-f one-liner needs translating

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 08:07:57AM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
> > 
> > Question.  How many Catalan speakers will be unable to get by with one
> > of the es, fr or maybe even pt versions?
> 
> I do not want to go over a language-battle but most of the people
> Jordi pointed out would be able to use 'es' or 'fr' installations.
> However, they would probably be more comfortable by using their main
> language.

Neither do I, but when we are talking priorities for inclusion I would
weigh this kind of information rather heavily.  So if it were up to me
(which it isn't), I would not chop Polish in favour of Catalan; and if
there is going to be more languages on a second floppy (hi Claus), I'd
probably put Catalan there and leave Polish on the first.
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