Bug#651624: Booting from zfs root seems to not work 8.3 and 10.0 however work
2011/12/10 Christoph Egger : > The official 9.0 kernel manages to mount the root fs Maybe they've fixed this bug recently. I just uploaded a new SVN snapshot to experimental (9.0~svn228246-1), can you try? -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXPATg=qh1c+tfprgd1jrxsbsbttabs5yr-kq8zr2fu...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Bug#651624: Booting from zfs root seems to not work 8.3 and 10.0 however work
Hi Steven, Please don't add unrelated information to bug reports. If you found a new bug, you can file it, or we can discuss it in the mailing list(s). I replaced the CC to BTS with debian-bsd. 2011/12/11 Steven Chamberlain : > which only has kfreebsd-image-8.2-1-amd64 8.2-15 (I guess because > kfreebsd-9 isn't in testing quite yet?). That might be, yes. Is kfreebsd-9 available in boot menu? > I had difficulty getting past the partitioner stage of the install. I > could create/see the ZFS pool from the partitioner's submenu, but it > would not ask me to set a mount point. The main partitioner screen > would not list the ZFS pool/filesystems, only the physical drive and > partition that I'd added to the pool (correctly marked as 'in use'). > > Then I noticed the debian installer seemed to be using zfsutils-udeb > 8.3~svn226546-6 from sid, which according to #648744 probably doesn't > work with 8.2. So, I downgraded to zfsutils-udeb 8.2-4 inside of the > running installer ramdisk (from the console, using wget, ar and tar to > overwrite zpool/zfs and libs), and was then able to delete/recreate a > ZFS pool and root fs that worked and allowed me to finish installing. Current zfsutils only works with kfreebsd 9.0 or 8.3 snapshots. I added an isinstallable script in zfsutils-udeb to prevent it from being installed on 8.2, but apparently it's not working. I don't know why. Perhaps you can find out what's wrong? -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXP=y25W5oRq+B70G74DAa1DVeM=gWfzUmNu0Jtw18G9=q...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#651624: Booting from zfs root seems to not work 8.3 and 10.0 however work
Hi, On 11/12/11 12:03, Robert Millan wrote: > Please don't add unrelated information to bug reports. If you found a > new bug, you can file it, or we can discuss it in the mailing list(s). Okay sorry, some of that I ought to file separate bugs for, but regarding this bug I was really trying to say: * I managed to install to a new ZFS root under kfreebsd 8.2, upgrade to kfreebsd 9 and still boot it; so what did we do differently for Christoph to have this issue? * how did Christoph create his zpool and ZFS root filesystem? because for me this seemed broken in recent d-i daily images, due to the wrong zfsutils being included; * I'm curious, did Christoph actually boot with kfreebsd 8.2 before installing kfreebsd 9? or did he install kfreebsd 9 sometime during the install and try to boot with that kernel first? Thanks, Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee4bd41.60...@pyro.eu.org
excuses.php claims zfsutils is out of date
excuses.php claims zfsutils is out of date but this isn't true. zfsutils removed a few binary packages recently, these are not out of date, they just aren't meant to be present anymore: http://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=zfsutils Will this prevent migration? -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXPeKdN2vMzMDQ0KVQUbhm7hFA=+fwp9tabff5aqj7z...@mail.gmail.com
Re: excuses.php claims zfsutils is out of date
Robert Millan (11/12/2011): > excuses.php claims zfsutils is out of date but this isn't true. > zfsutils removed a few binary packages recently, these are not out of > date, they just aren't meant to be present anymore: That's called “out of date” until removal. > http://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=zfsutils > > Will this prevent migration? See NBS on http://wiki.debian.org/ftpmaster_Removals If you are in a hurry and can't wait for the semi-automatic decruft sessions, file a bug to get them removed. Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#651624: Booting from zfs root seems to not work 8.3 and 10.0 however work
2011/12/11 Steven Chamberlain : > * I managed to install to a new ZFS root under kfreebsd 8.2, upgrade to > kfreebsd 9 and still boot it; so what did we do differently for > Christoph to have this issue? Hard to say. It's probably just not reproducible every time, or depends on factors that can't be easily controlled. IMHO our best bet right now is try latest 9.0 snapshot, and if that's still broken then try setting vfs.zfs.debug=1 and watch the output. > * how did Christoph create his zpool and ZFS root filesystem? because > for me this seemed broken in recent d-i daily images, due to the wrong > zfsutils being included; Yes. It's badly broken right now (for many different reasons), I'm surprised he could finish the install too. However kernels should operate on best-effort basis. If there's enough information for other kfreebsd versions to boot, there should be for 9.0 too. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXOpAfN3VjQKSU5titsF5rbpCLH273jj4a52SJ0OhgZ1=w...@mail.gmail.com
Re: excuses.php claims zfsutils is out of date
2011/12/11 Cyril Brulebois : > See NBS on http://wiki.debian.org/ftpmaster_Removals > > If you are in a hurry and can't wait for the semi-automatic decruft > sessions, file a bug to get them removed. Thanks. I just filed a bug on ftp.d.o. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXMaBj4zejya2q5=rjhngwmcha4tgc52lb1fatcfhco...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#651712: RM: libnvpair-dev, libnvpair0, libnvpair0-udeb, libumem-dev, libumem0, libumem0-udeb, libuutil-dev, libuutil0, libuutil0-udeb, libzfs-dev, libzfs0, libzfs0-udeb, libzpool-dev, libzpool0, l
Package: ftp.debian.org Severity: normal Some are NBS because soname was bumped (0 -> 1), and the -dev ones are NBS because they've been intentionally removed since they're not usable for external applications to link with. We can't wait for automated removal because of the ongoing transition from kfreebsd-8 to kfreebsd-9, which breaks ZFS userland ABI (see #648744) and therefore migration of zfsutils needs to be coordinated. Thanks! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20111211160341.60805.78138.reportbug@thorin
Re: excuses.php claims zfsutils is out of date
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, On 11.12.2011 17:04, Robert Millan wrote: > Thanks. I just filed a bug on ftp.d.o. britney will still not let you migrate then, as you filed a RC bug yourself to prevent exactly that migration. :) - -- with kind regards, Arno Töll IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJO5NUjAAoJEMcrUe6dgPNtMPkQAJnwIlWrY9+zFeLl8J9qR3yV SfUqX9iGPvW4+KKyhT4n4MNy2wyfLTGERgNwPxoGCGg1mZ4mBl45LSOnTFPjMbJn gMF7KndOtnzKA5FjbpvmUA2AhwGU3XvmbwLMQ2UNL1QDGgPLDJ5LNM9uFBwdcUhw rhBmqeZItaqox+fIYGuUsFhRbyaRAmJ10L9Clx7+guRGTOrowmlYD0Mb8OojlUWc ut5k4RxXK3+6oJASaIgVLl8qth7DSM+ZlUo6yA8K1Nh8qWsFfnCNk+x6DbxVIydh 5VmnzF/9cV6rqd8OAGydJ/1gVoRAQ23L0KsOBTdj4VZEvjmyF6MM9f/ZSHPG4PZ5 ALeH7GWKPmr/MggphJHrjq9CPoeXnq7J8sb5no1n6e29xgiUzHWWA8vPvgG9Ksvy nKlIJ1IuQoyHOYkw4/8PrwZOerC3QmKclrw1gn9rHMNvDkZO3Cmqw6jtA9q9mG5e buD/kzqkyS6Sgko8osDETZRDDVsZoH8hoFacltYKi5Mh+SF3eprRN7khflKfESoP swWonLloUHG3q1yJun5JLb6Z4d58Y3q2FtJfabvQi2PC5/4keapF4rdNeT0UmKiT d2hqXPjmPpo/GEsQx0nhE3tAhsXOkLuilbGyK8cU2uQisHHLhIZzUpRXUJ0Z4zql 1jagCnOikn8cTEw90t6V =sruS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee4d523.3020...@toell.net
Re: excuses.php claims zfsutils is out of date
2011/12/11 Arno Töll : > On 11.12.2011 17:04, Robert Millan wrote: >> Thanks. I just filed a bug on ftp.d.o. > > britney will still not let you migrate then, as you filed a RC bug > yourself to prevent exactly that migration. :) I know. Migration needs to happen at the same time as kfreebsd-9, neither earlier not later. Unfortunately package relationships can't be used, so I took the manual approach. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXMUxBuavYb1D=xa9ifnvgrtbkubjyydslgbb00jxg1...@mail.gmail.com
new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
My current summary: 1- kfreebsd-8 images can't currently be used to install *anything* when zfsutils-udeb 8.3 is being used, i.e. when they fetch their packages from sid. It seems the default is still zfsutils-udeb 8.2 for debian-cd images (netinst, businesscard) but not for netboot. 2- kfreebsd-9 images can't currently be used to install Wheezy (which is the default AFAICT), because: 2.1- Last stage of the installer is unable to find kfreebsd-image-9-amd64 package. Will be fixed when kfreebsd-9 migrates. 2.2- zfsutils 8.2 in /target with a kfreebsd-9 runtime breaks grub-install (even if zfsutils-udeb is 8.3). Will be fixed when zfsutils 8.3 migrates. 2.3- /boot/zfs/zpool.cache is NOT present!! No idea why this happens, but potentially it could also break installed systems (since they attempt to boot using outdated /boot/zfs/zpool.cache that was generated with older ZFS version). Could this be related to #651624 ? -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXNnjPYZs66t=6azsvr_ybjbwr0siytiw0xwvn8cpmm...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
Package: zfsutils Version: 8.3~svn226546-6 2011/12/11 Robert Millan : > 2.2- zfsutils 8.2 in /target with a kfreebsd-9 runtime breaks > grub-install (even if zfsutils-udeb is 8.3). Will be fixed when > zfsutils 8.3 migrates. Actually, this is much worse. Even 8.3 zfsutils (or zfsutils-udeb) has the same problem (it confuses a partition with its container), the only difference is that zfsutils 8.2 prints broken "zpool status" output, whereas zfsutils 8.3 doesn't. Breakage in 8.3 can be exposed with: $ zpool create test /dev/ada0s1 $ zpool export test $ zpool import pool: test state: FAULTED status: One or mode devices contains corrupted data. ... config: test FAULTED corrupted data ada0 UNAVAIL corrupted data -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXMm6MK=+fiFgxprgjrtihPjyLx7R=t8bkzxq8shggr...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
Package: partman-zfs Severity: grave 2011/12/11 Robert Millan : > 2.3- /boot/zfs/zpool.cache is NOT present!! No idea why this > happens, but potentially it could also break installed systems (since > they attempt to boot using outdated /boot/zfs/zpool.cache that was > generated with older ZFS version). Could this be related to #651624 ? Some "ZFS on root" documentation suggests that after creating a pool you should export it and import it to flush zpool.cache. This needs to be verified. I put it in partman-zfs so it's not forgotten. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caofdtxnjcs_ccslmg0wfnh9ebchi_3iw_6s_u3ughhgu2ww...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
2011/12/11 Robert Millan : > 1- kfreebsd-8 images can't currently be used to install *anything* > when zfsutils-udeb 8.3 is being used, i.e. when they fetch their > packages from sid. It seems the default is still zfsutils-udeb 8.2 > for debian-cd images (netinst, businesscard) but not for netboot. For the record, the symptoms of this are that /dev/zvol/* device nodes aren't being created, and therefore creating a pool and new file systems doesn't make new devices appear in partman GUI. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caofdtxmalmn-xq_94d2ldbyp_wife96qm6tprxyjsccbgf7...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, On 11.12.2011 18:05, Robert Millan wrote: > For the record, the symptoms of this are that /dev/zvol/* device nodes > aren't being created, and therefore creating a pool and new file > systems doesn't make new devices appear in partman GUI. That's exactly the problem I had when running zfsutils 8.3 with the 8.2 kernel. You can reproduce that by just installing the newer utils on a Squeeze system. I think I even reported that in the zfsutils threads from a while ago. Back then I assumed that was quite intentional as upgrading to a 8.3 kernel solved the problem. That's why we added breaks conditions to the package back then. Aside of this problem there didn't seem to be a hard (i.e. API or ABI) incompatibility which would have caused a crash or so. - -- with kind regards, Arno Töll IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJO5OWhAAoJEMcrUe6dgPNtJSIQAMEJgN6/cvq3PqPJI3bndoFk vh2d/iCx31/IrEQqXsWRzYi60X8h08qtJHIHdSXPRS8nuaGtsJ1reuOFIXWkvdGk GT0zQVmcMkO31MnXOfzEWsppdXmPKM1pSYpZkeXjKkz9C/+IwaI1gYuTBXClGgHe nEzEHbQ2iIQuK2SuoAZ5JH2O3/LqfjpH1DnR7LGQgJxTo4nFk8LE0gDuMzqAyrXa /GtXhQUQTYGXgzK1nbRf/8p6XEWl6eiAZGtg9UM/908WJ761kaPYipaAXXO/EQCb AuzGL1ziMsA7mxStXV9tl1QNuvU9X0QrquC22eaRU8n09+LlfBnDV3rzTYtfKhaa +ESHE9BmPDSyIhFqkQ79DupiOYq3pew35fQ/v1LRqomqWH+WXMkg8pqKsxVcCzvj 0gUg4hxRcyMa0SJIPColfdscYhkNNDsjkSa2KVVBDhQJoKWZ/xDjZr5pPn7rue1l 2DZWDT9UFfKhmi+5l70FEdOHGF5RH5r9Ji5HCXtNPAJl6qr8Kv9QvHAEx7VJVTiI yfrYJSMjFmeY+Z+mUv3o06NdxtgX18jYhvkm0A/b/BWM1A5/TDjrREwUSCXAieC9 XGlxm3deJEx6GwLLIBJNgGi1NuqBTbput4b59FeN+TzRs8OldkXNb9QHp8MKmCpB U0OhlhXMf3xbsWsSYWIC =w3hQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee4e5a1.4040...@toell.net
Processed: severity of 651719 is grave
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org: > severity 651719 grave Bug #651719 [zfsutils] new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid Severity set to 'grave' from 'normal' > thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. -- 651719: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=651719 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/handler.s.c.132362391929237.transcr...@bugs.debian.org
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
2011/12/11 Arno Töll : > Back then I assumed that was quite intentional as upgrading to a 8.3 > kernel solved the problem. That's why we added breaks conditions to the > package back then. Aside of this problem there didn't seem to be a hard > (i.e. API or ABI) incompatibility which would have caused a crash or so. TTOMK all break conditions are in place, but these don't cover all possible combinations presented by D-I. The isinstallable script at least ought to be working. Any idea what's wrong with that? 2011/12/11 Steven Chamberlain : > Your .isinstallable script is right, but it's being ignored. Maybe > because zfsutils is considered a 'required' installer module, and not an > optional user choice from the menu. Instead, it's just using the latest > available version from the install media. zfsutils is not a required module, it's supposed to be optional (just like partman-zfs). -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caofdtxn_og09vcdfe5gu2g3irq++0u0pgk8dmtsja9uk2_-...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#651719: marked as done (new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid)
Your message dated Sun, 11 Dec 2011 18:43:40 +0100 with message-id and subject line not a bug has caused the Debian Bug report #651719, regarding new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact ow...@bugs.debian.org immediately.) -- 651719: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=651719 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems --- Begin Message --- Package: zfsutils Version: 8.3~svn226546-6 2011/12/11 Robert Millan : > 2.2- zfsutils 8.2 in /target with a kfreebsd-9 runtime breaks > grub-install (even if zfsutils-udeb is 8.3). Will be fixed when > zfsutils 8.3 migrates. Actually, this is much worse. Even 8.3 zfsutils (or zfsutils-udeb) has the same problem (it confuses a partition with its container), the only difference is that zfsutils 8.2 prints broken "zpool status" output, whereas zfsutils 8.3 doesn't. Breakage in 8.3 can be exposed with: $ zpool create test /dev/ada0s1 $ zpool export test $ zpool import pool: test state: FAULTED status: One or mode devices contains corrupted data. ... config: test FAULTED corrupted data ada0 UNAVAIL corrupted data -- Robert Millan --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- It seems that the "zpool import" hack I introduced in the process of fixing #651720 was picking up remnants of a previous pool with the same name, which was indeed broken. I worked around it by creating a clean pool on ada0 and then destroying it. The fix I'm committing to partman-zfs will use GUIDs, avoiding this problem. -- Robert Millan --- End Message ---
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
Hi, > 2011/12/11 Robert Millan : >> It seems the default is still zfsutils-udeb 8.2 >> for debian-cd images (netinst, businesscard) but not for netboot. Did you mean 8.3? That's what I see the latest netinst/businesscard images try to use, regardless of which kernel is used during install. Your .isinstallable script is right, but it's being ignored. Maybe because zfsutils is considered a 'required' installer module, and not an optional user choice from the menu. Instead, it's just using the latest available version from the install media. > For the record, the symptoms of this are that /dev/zvol/* device nodes > aren't being created, and therefore creating a pool and new file > systems doesn't make new devices appear in partman GUI. Yep, that's what I was seeing -- unless I downgrade to zfsutils-udeb 8.2 whilst in the installer, then going back into partman. Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee4e58f.6090...@pyro.eu.org
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
Hello, On 11/12/11 17:38, Robert Millan wrote: > 2011/12/11 Arno Töll : >> Back then I assumed that was quite intentional as upgrading to a 8.3 >> kernel solved the problem. That's why we added breaks conditions to the >> package back then. Aside of this problem there didn't seem to be a hard >> (i.e. API or ABI) incompatibility which would have caused a crash or so. > > TTOMK all break conditions are in place, but these don't cover all > possible combinations presented by D-I. Looks like zfsutils 8.3 still has Breaks in place for 8.1/8.2 kernels, since 8.3~svn226546-3, so I guess it is safe to migrate to testing, and bug #648744 is unnecessary? zfsutils-udeb doesn't use Breaks, because the 8.2 and 9.0 images are must both be present, so... > The isinstallable script at least ought to be working. Any idea > what's wrong with that? > zfsutils is not a required module, it's supposed to be optional (just > like partman-zfs). partman-zfs and zfsutils 8.3 both get installed without a choice, instead of being listed in the menu of optional installer modules. I don't know why. It sounds like the .isinstallable feature is only supposed to hide items from that menu? I just tried another install using partman-zfs 16 and kfreebsd-8, which allows zpool/volumes (v15) to be created with zfsutils 8.3 and it generates a zpool.cache, but partman is still not listing any volumes as mentioned before. If that issue could be fixed somehow, maybe it would be unnecessary to try to include zfstils-udeb 8.2 in the installer? Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee55327.8080...@pyro.eu.org
