Re: zfsutils migration (Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid)
Version: 8.3~svn226546-6 In any case, it seems nobody has a strong objection against migrating zfsutils. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXMG_fjonpUxA5Jcz1mLeKGCY=6NiTBk=bbhwzh-u-h...@mail.gmail.com
Re: zfsutils migration (Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid)
El 13 de desembre de 2011 19:07, Arno Töll deb...@toell.net ha escrit: Note, I didn't find any /real/ problem when using zfsutils 8.3 with a 8.2 kernel. I didn't try it with 8.1 but I don't see why it would be different there. Well, zfs list fails with EINVAL on 8.1 kernel, and I recall seeing zpool status report non-sense in some combinations. Is there a point in having our users test yet another combination that isn't supported by upstream, fix the problems we find, etc? Our userbase is very small and noticeably bad at finding problems. If we do this IMHO there should be a benefit. If we could find a workaround by emulating this volinit call when an older kernel is detected, I guess we could happily use newer utils along with older kernels. I haven't looked at the code, but that's probably just some ioctl we could emulate easily. Doesn't hurt to implement that, it even helps for people using chroots, but removing the Breaks and encouraging users to test v28 userland with v15 kernel is a very different story. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXMr4bT1dL9VzChpD9dHV2j8o367BSZ6bKe=xkyosyn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: zfsutils migration (Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid)
On 13/12/11 06:59, Robert Millan wrote: I guess we should allow it to migrate then? But I'm still worried about current Wheezy users being forced to upgrade to 9.0 and hitting problems like #651624. Haha, I've quite a headache understanding all the combinations. I'll list the ones I can think of -- please correct me wherever: A Squeeze ZFS user would have kfreebsd-8 8.1 and zfsutils 8.1, and may like to: S1. upgrade to kfreebsd-8 8.2, and would need zfsutils 8.2 S2. upgrade to kfreebsd-9, but would need zfsutils 8.3 S3. upgrade to kfreebsd-8 8.3, but would need zfsutils 8.3 Option S1 should be possible right now, but not if zfsutils 8.3 migrates, and not after kfreebsd-8 8.2 is replaced by 8.3 in testing; old versions would have to be used from snapshots.d.o Option S2 is only possible if zfsutils 8.3 migrates. Same for option S3, but that kernel is still in experimental. A current Wheezy user may still be using the kernel+ZFS from Squeeze, but more likely they have the 8.2 version of both. They may want to: W1. keep kfreebsd-8 8.1 -- an upgrade to zfsutils 8.3 should not happen due to Breaks? W2. keep kfreebsd-8 8.2 -- an upgrade to zfsutils 8.3 should not happen due to Breaks? W3. upgrade to kfreebsd-9, but would need zfsutils 8.3 W4. upgrade to kfreebsd-8 8.3, but would need zfsutils 8.3 Options W3 and W4 are only possible if zfsutils 8.3 migrates, or if packages from Sid are used. A new user may want to: N1. use Squeeze, install kfreebsd-8 8.1 with zfsutils 8.1 N2. install kfreebsd-8 8.2 -- ZFS installs break due to d-i using the zfsutils 8.3 udeb which is incompatible with kfreebsd-8 8.2 N3. install kfreebsd-9 9 -- ZFS installs break if only the Wheezy respository is enabled (a default d-i install), as it has no installable zfsutils 8.3 N4. install kfreebsd-8 8.3 -- still in experimental, but will need zfsutils 8.3 too The overall effect of migration, then, is that kfreebsd-8 8.2 would no longer be an install/upgrade option for anyone that needs ZFS (except from snapshots.d.o). But it will open the door for kfreebsd-8 8.3 to soon replace it in Wheezy and in the installer. The migration *must* happen before new/existing Wheezy users (without using Sid) can install/test ZFS with the newer kernels, particularly a problem for the d-i images. I think lots of people (including myself!) ought to be testing these as soon as possible, in the run-up to the release of Wheezy and the new kernels upstream. Upstream were only alerted to #650667 thanks to testing in Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. The only other option I see is to split zfsutils so there is a separate version for installing+running kfreebsd-8 8.2, although that kernel would disappear anyway when 8.3 replaces it. I guess bug #651624 is no longer of concern once the installer is using kfreebsd-8 8.3; I think that was due to the kernel/zfsutils used by the installer. Also it seems #644799 is fixed by newer zfsutils. Thank you! Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee70f6f.3030...@pyro.eu.org
Re: zfsutils migration (Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid)
2011/12/13 Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org: But I'm still worried about current Wheezy users being forced to upgrade to 9.0 and hitting problems like #651624. Haha, I've quite a headache understanding all the combinations. Relieved to see I'm not alone on that ;-) A Squeeze ZFS user would have kfreebsd-8 8.1 and zfsutils 8.1, and may like to: S1. upgrade to kfreebsd-8 8.2, and would need zfsutils 8.2 kfreebsd 8.2 is usable with zfsutils 8.1, they've got a different ZFS version but AFAICT they use the same ABI (14 vs 15). (in fact kfreebsd 8.2 is available in backports) A current Wheezy user may still be using the kernel+ZFS from Squeeze, Nope. Latest kbdcontrol won't allow that (xterm transition). but more likely they have the 8.2 version of both. They may want to: W1. keep kfreebsd-8 8.1 -- an upgrade to zfsutils 8.3 should not happen due to Breaks? W2. keep kfreebsd-8 8.2 -- an upgrade to zfsutils 8.3 should not happen due to Breaks? Correct. They would have to remove kfreebsd 8.1. But it will open the door for kfreebsd-8 8.3 to soon replace it in Wheezy and in the installer. We can't really do that until FreeBSD 8.3 is released. Putting 9.0-0 snapshots in testing is tricky already because new updates have to preserve ABI (but 9.0 is due really soon now). The migration *must* happen before new/existing Wheezy users (without using Sid) can install/test ZFS with the newer kernels, particularly a problem for the d-i images. I think lots of people (including myself!) ought to be testing these as soon as possible, in the run-up to the release of Wheezy and the new kernels upstream. Upstream were only alerted to #650667 thanks to testing in Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. Yes. I'm really in favour of migrating ASAP. But it's scary... we should at least be sure that pure sid installs currently work. The only other option I see is to split zfsutils so there is a separate version for installing+running kfreebsd-8 8.2, although that kernel would disappear anyway when 8.3 replaces it. That's a big hassle, and it'd only be temporary. I guess bug #651624 is no longer of concern once the installer is using kfreebsd-8 8.3; I think that was due to the kernel/zfsutils used by the installer. Uhm I'm not so sure about that. Let's see if Christoph finds something... Also it seems #644799 is fixed by newer zfsutils. Closing then. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXM3jPzqBMAg+C_hkZYreUMcoPK=hqzpuodhcmk8pkc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: zfsutils migration (Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, On 13.12.2011 18:51, Robert Millan wrote: S1. upgrade to kfreebsd-8 8.2, and would need zfsutils 8.2 kfreebsd 8.2 is usable with zfsutils 8.1, they've got a different ZFS version but AFAICT they use the same ABI (14 vs 15). ... The only other option I see is to split zfsutils so there is a separate version for installing+running kfreebsd-8 8.2, although that kernel would disappear anyway when 8.3 replaces it. That's a big hassle, and it'd only be temporary. Note, I didn't find any /real/ problem when using zfsutils 8.3 with a 8.2 kernel. I didn't try it with 8.1 but I don't see why it would be different there. Using newer utils does not break anything really, the only problem seems to be that newer versions of zfsutils do not support zfs volinit anymore, whereas the older kernel more or less waits for this call from the user land to export volumes properly. Thus, when booting kfreebsd with an older kernel but newer zfsutils some volumes might be missing on boot. For the 8.3/9.0 branch this seems to happen automagically. If we could find a workaround by emulating this volinit call when an older kernel is detected, I guess we could happily use newer utils along with older kernels. I haven't looked at the code, but that's probably just some ioctl we could emulate easily. - -- with kind regards, Arno Töll IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJO55RVAAoJEMcrUe6dgPNt8/wQAJi+hfolRcH2mHgnLrAzMiaS nMrKYJ824ggAo7DxSuCJ1LC5VZsJklZCeEJ84KwqY8rofZ/YZUHjA6j77QFYOiUw NmdRtjeXkHvZ6r9LxHLomWHS2VIycp8uzhDBzLNUgt6VOA/QisPy8Q2jgKRMmdJD 1RY+EKpmPwy52VV9yU8bDtCMgSIfDBWNrcbVwCa/ZOU0fZi67SXKiHhcwUi3BVal dB5d/mgXfeTDfHTgA684afqnAFcONW4j/YE1OjOLrLTIvndyr5RvcEj/DcipsJi1 pTpwSmOr40ySGO/A4cKTgy51iUbuahbTl0QI2CPSaRGqt3tvXmNg7a0NpqnNaEyY iDliNxZoQh6aTqD7uP30gWe6GFT4z/zNNi4sh46WWXUTKm6eQvalTsYSKTXG6rmQ nFLuc87rgmDOOlxFBAhvcrQk9gBS2heUKckoN0kGpuPhKZq8SYrvd8O2dThoqKb2 G7ENIECVtvkCMk05nPSywZ5zoKA5xjxX8xJoURIRs0GkqVHbiDrg0ATkofAkigFQ Mzq7AyqHzpG/+ZE7c1gp8siUC0EUgmpFGEy45vKfsvEdXvTg709u4A9clHpDBgm/ LsXyQi7e9H/FKGCz6t2/9rnVRdFXXowMOBJYxCwPIBc35dObuOzeH6SHtDPq5I6U PrB/vg9xmtrNk19FtLt2 =tZjC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee79456.3090...@toell.net
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
2011/12/12 Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org: Looks like zfsutils 8.3 still has Breaks in place for 8.1/8.2 kernels, since 8.3~svn226546-3, so I guess it is safe to migrate to testing, and bug #648744 is unnecessary? This would force all ZFS users of kfreebsd 8.2 in Wheezy to upgrade to 9.0. I think we should wait for the release before doing this. OTOH if new installs are broken, that's a big problem too. zfsutils-udeb doesn't use Breaks, because the 8.2 and 9.0 images are must both be present, so... Yes. A runtime check is needed. I just tried another install using partman-zfs 16 and kfreebsd-8, which allows zpool/volumes (v15) to be created with zfsutils 8.3 and it generates a zpool.cache, but partman is still not listing any volumes as mentioned before. If that issue could be fixed somehow, [...] Maybe it can, but the ABI incompatibility is probably a much deeper problem than just ZVOL support. E.g. I wouldn't be surprised if zpool status reports wrong data. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caofdtxm8rzph9ghrmst1dyjns7ptczpspvw5tcciqgsqo9w...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
On 12/12/11 19:14, Robert Millan wrote: This would force all ZFS users of kfreebsd 8.2 in Wheezy to upgrade to 9.0. Ah, I didn't realise that -- with only one version of the zfsutils package in Wheezy, 8.3, the Break for kfreebsd = 8.2 wouldn't leave an installable zfsutils for anyone using those kernels. I guess this could only work if there were separate packages available in Wheezy at the same time, e.g.: zfsutils-15, Provides: zfsutils but Breaks: kfreebsd = 8.2 zfsutils-28, Provides: zfsutils Maybe it can, but the ABI incompatibility is probably a much deeper problem than just ZVOL support. I was just thinking of the installer here. zfsutils 8.3 seems successful at creating a new ZFS pool and volume within d-i using kfreebsd-8. For partman to see the volumes, I only needed to install zfsutils 8.2 to run 'zfs volinit' and 'zfs volfini' at the right moments. I then ran into a new issue -- grub-probe (from 1.99-14) couldn't detect a filesystem type for /. grub-probe from 1.99-13 worked. Also, I notice zfsutils 8.2 is gone from the businesscard installer image since yesterday, but its libraries are still there. Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee6c3e1.1040...@pyro.eu.org
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
Hi again, On 12/12/11 19:14, Robert Millan wrote: This would force all ZFS users of kfreebsd 8.2 in Wheezy to upgrade to 9.0. I think we should wait for the release before doing this. OTOH if new installs are broken, that's a big problem too. Now that kfreebsd-9 is in testing, I tried to install it using the latest businesscard d-i image. It works fine, except there is no installable zfsutils for it in Wheezy yet, so #648744 is a really awkward problem. There was no warning until the Configure GRUB stage failed. grub-probe was unable to run zpool, because it wasn't there, until I enabled sid in APT sources.list and installed zfsutils 8.3 within the /target chroot; then I could finish the install. Everything seems great apart from that. Thanks! Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ee6e76a.6080...@pyro.eu.org
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
2011/12/13 Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org: Ah, I didn't realise that -- with only one version of the zfsutils package in Wheezy, 8.3, the Break for kfreebsd = 8.2 wouldn't leave an installable zfsutils for anyone using those kernels. Right, it'd be put on hold. I'm unsure if there could be other problems though. E.g. people upgrading from zfsutils 8.1 in Squeeze. Also, ZFS support in 9.0 is still problematic (e.g. #651624). I guess this could only work if there were separate packages available in Wheezy at the same time, e.g.: zfsutils-15, Provides: zfsutils but Breaks: kfreebsd = 8.2 zfsutils-28, Provides: zfsutils This would also require separate library packages + some hack to switch zfs userland in runtime. Since this is only useful for kfreebsd 8.2, and 8.3 is due to be released soon after 9.0, I don't think it's worth it. Maybe it can, but the ABI incompatibility is probably a much deeper problem than just ZVOL support. I was just thinking of the installer here. zfsutils 8.3 seems successful at creating a new ZFS pool and volume within d-i using kfreebsd-8. For partman to see the volumes, I only needed to install zfsutils 8.2 to run 'zfs volinit' and 'zfs volfini' at the right moments. I then ran into a new issue -- grub-probe (from 1.99-14) couldn't detect a filesystem type for /. grub-probe from 1.99-13 worked. I hit that too (see my initial mail in this thread for explanation). It just shows that 8.3 ZFS userland with 8.2 ZFS kernel is an unsupported configuration. I don't think we can diverge from upstream on this, it requires a lot of manpower and we don't have it. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXPZ=niddd1215wzb4stq_bphuan+jjs3shgbstmy2a...@mail.gmail.com
zfsutils migration (Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid)
(adding #648744 to CC) 2011/12/13 Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org: Now that kfreebsd-9 is in testing, I tried to install it using the latest businesscard d-i image. It works fine, except there is no installable zfsutils for it in Wheezy yet, so #648744 is a really awkward problem. I guess we should allow it to migrate then? But I'm still worried about current Wheezy users being forced to upgrade to 9.0 and hitting problems like #651624. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXNNmXmLQ6FEmg4=4gvwjp6pnw9gzmgssuv5jz-wpkf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
Package: zfsutils Version: 8.3~svn226546-6 2011/12/11 Robert Millan r...@debian.org: 2.2- zfsutils 8.2 in /target with a kfreebsd-9 runtime breaks grub-install (even if zfsutils-udeb is 8.3). Will be fixed when zfsutils 8.3 migrates. Actually, this is much worse. Even 8.3 zfsutils (or zfsutils-udeb) has the same problem (it confuses a partition with its container), the only difference is that zfsutils 8.2 prints broken zpool status output, whereas zfsutils 8.3 doesn't. Breakage in 8.3 can be exposed with: $ zpool create test /dev/ada0s1 $ zpool export test $ zpool import pool: test state: FAULTED status: One or mode devices contains corrupted data. ... config: test FAULTED corrupted data ada0 UNAVAIL corrupted data -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOfDtXMm6MK=+fiFgxprgjrtihPjyLx7R=t8bkzxq8shggr...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
Package: partman-zfs Severity: grave 2011/12/11 Robert Millan r...@debian.org: 2.3- /boot/zfs/zpool.cache is NOT present!! No idea why this happens, but potentially it could also break installed systems (since they attempt to boot using outdated /boot/zfs/zpool.cache that was generated with older ZFS version). Could this be related to #651624 ? Some ZFS on root documentation suggests that after creating a pool you should export it and import it to flush zpool.cache. This needs to be verified. I put it in partman-zfs so it's not forgotten. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caofdtxnjcs_ccslmg0wfnh9ebchi_3iw_6s_u3ughhgu2ww...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new ZFS installs completely broken in Wheezy/Sid
2011/12/11 Robert Millan r...@debian.org: 1- kfreebsd-8 images can't currently be used to install *anything* when zfsutils-udeb 8.3 is being used, i.e. when they fetch their packages from sid. It seems the default is still zfsutils-udeb 8.2 for debian-cd images (netinst, businesscard) but not for netboot. For the record, the symptoms of this are that /dev/zvol/* device nodes aren't being created, and therefore creating a pool and new file systems doesn't make new devices appear in partman GUI. -- Robert Millan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caofdtxmalmn-xq_94d2ldbyp_wife96qm6tprxyjsccbgf7...@mail.gmail.com
