Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 02:34:13PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 01:13:40PM +0200, Nicolas François wrote: > > Package: menu > > Version: 2.1.26 > > Severity: wishlist > > Tags: patch l10n > > > > Hello, > > > > Please find attached a patch that adds the French translation of the > > menu's man pages. > > Hello Nicolas, your translation is completly integrated in menu > since version 2.1.27 but I will not use po4a because this cause > more issues than the current state of the manpages deserve. No problem. Thanks for integrating them. -- Nekral
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
Hello, Here is the patch. It creates a po4a directory in the debian directory, and also modifies update-menus.1 (to avoid a po4a warning). >From what I unsderstood, you don't want to run po4a in the Makefile's dist rule, to ease the build on non-Debian systems. I don't know if you want to generate automatically the translations during Debian builds. In this case, you will have to add to this patch: * a build dependency on po4a (>= 0.23) * a line to generate the translations in the build rule of debian/rules: po4a --rm-backups debian/po4a/po4a.conf (This will update the translations in the doc directory) * a line to ensure you always ship up-to-date POs in the source package (in the clean rule of debian/rules): po4a --rm-backups --no-translations debian/po4a/po4a.conf You can re-use the PO of my first message for testing. The addenda (in debian/po4a/add_fr) contain my name, but this can be changed if somebody else do the translation. Do not hesitate to contact me or debian-l10n-french when you think the manpages will be stable enough. Kind Regards, -- Nekral diff -rauN ../orig/menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr2.add ./menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr2.add --- ../orig/menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr2.add 1970-01-01 01:00:00.0 +0100 +++ ./menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr2.add 2006-04-09 16:27:23.0 +0200 @@ -0,0 +1,18 @@ +PO4A-HEADER:mode=after;position=^\.TH;beginboundary=FakePo4aBoundary +.SH TRADUCTION +Ce document est une traduction, réalisée par Sylvain Cherrier +<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. +.br +Elle a été reprise avec po4a par Nicolas FRANÇOIS le 3 septembre 2005. + +L'équipe de traduction a fait le maximum pour réaliser une adaptation +française de qualité. + +La version anglaise la plus à jour de ce document est toujours consultable +en ajoutant l'option «\ \-L C\ » à la commande \fBman\fR. + +N'hésitez pas à signaler à l'auteur ou à la liste de traduction +.nh +<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, +.hy +selon le cas, toute erreur dans cette page de manuel. diff -rauN ../orig/menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr.add ./menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr.add --- ../orig/menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr.add1970-01-01 01:00:00.0 +0100 +++ ./menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr.add 2006-04-09 16:28:11.0 +0200 @@ -0,0 +1,16 @@ +PO4A-HEADER:mode=after;position=^\.TH;beginboundary=FakePo4aBoundary +.SH TRADUCTION +Ce document est une traduction, réalisée par Nicolas FRANÇOIS le +3 septembre 2005. + +L'équipe de traduction a fait le maximum pour réaliser une adaptation +française de qualité. + +La version anglaise la plus à jour de ce document est toujours consultable +en ajoutant l'option «\ \-L C\ » à la commande \fBman\fR. + +N'hésitez pas à signaler à l'auteur ou à la liste de traduction +.nh +<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, +.hy +selon le cas, toute erreur dans cette page de manuel. diff -rauN ../orig/menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/po4a.conf ./menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/po4a.conf --- ../orig/menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/po4a.conf 1970-01-01 01:00:00.0 +0100 +++ ./menu-2.1.27/debian/po4a/po4a.conf 2006-04-09 17:22:15.0 +0200 @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@ +# To update the manpages translations, run po4a in the menu's root directory: +# po4a debian/po4a/po4a.conf + +# list the languages (for the $lang expansion) +[po4a_langs] fr + +# first explain where are the transaltors input files +[po4a_paths] debian/po4a/po/menu.pot $lang:debian/po4a/po/$lang.po + +# Then list the documents to translate, their format, their translations +# (as well as the addendums to apply to the translations) +[type:man] doc/su-to-root.1 $lang:doc/su-to-root.$lang.1 \ + add_fr:debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr.add +[type:man] doc/install-menu.1$lang:doc/install-menu.$lang.1 \ + add_fr:debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr.add +[type:man] doc/update-menus.1$lang:doc/update-menus.$lang.1 \ + add_fr:debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr2.add +[type:man] doc/menufile.5$lang:doc/menufile.$lang.5 \ + add_fr:debian/po4a/add_fr/translator_fr.add diff -rauN ../orig/menu-2.1.27/doc/update-menus.1 ./menu-2.1.27/doc/update-menus.1 --- ../orig/menu-2.1.27/doc/update-menus.1 2005-12-11 21:39:43.0 +0100 +++ ./menu-2.1.27/doc/update-menus.12006-04-09 17:08:08.0 +0200 @@ -62,7 +62,7 @@ who want to override the system wide defaults put their files in ~/.menu. See also .BR menufile(5) -.RE +.RE .I per window-manager in /etc/menu-methods/$wm .RS In these configuration files, one can tune generated system."$wm"rc files for
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
Hello Bill, On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 07:11:54PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hello Nicolas, I have to make a lot of changes to the manpages but > in order to not waste your time, I would like to move forward with this > issue before chnaging them. > > Would it be possible to come with a patch that does not touch any files > in menu but just add a directory in debian/ and some instructions > how to deal with the system? I will send a patch this WE. Kind Regards, -- Nekral -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 01:13:40PM +0200, Nicolas François wrote: > Package: menu > Version: 2.1.26 > Severity: wishlist > Tags: patch l10n > > Hello, > > Please find attached a patch that adds the French translation of the > menu's man pages. Hello Nicolas, I have to make a lot of changes to the manpages but in order to not waste your time, I would like to move forward with this issue before chnaging them. Would it be possible to come with a patch that does not touch any files in menu but just add a directory in debian/ and some instructions how to deal with the system? I would then take care of any others changes I will deem necessary to menu sources. Thanks in advance, -- Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Imagine a large red swirl here.
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
Bill Allombert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (14/12/2005): > On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 08:34:58AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: > > What I can't figure out is whether you don't want to use po4a at > > allor just avoid shipping PO files in your tarball. > > I don't want the _upstream_ build system to require po4a. I don't mind > about the Debian build system, provide the translation are not specific > t Debian. You can add an autoconf check. Please see the two patches attached. Once applied, just do not remove the regenerated manpages. If there is po4a on the system, then po files will be updated and manpages regenerated. If not, it is just the same as the current situation. > There are other issues with po4a, mainly that the output does not match > the currentl manpage layout, so it make harder to review, but that can > probably be fixed. Do you have an example of this layout dismatch? I am sure the po4a developers are willing to fix these bugs... if they are aware of them. > > > Yes, but given the current state of the English manpages, does it worth > > > the trouble ? I don't mind the French translation since I can fix both > > > the English and French at once. > > > > > > If the manpages are important enough to be translated, they must probably > > > be rewritten first. Which I am doing slowly, but I am not a good English > > > writer anyway. > > > > Manpages are always important. And translated manpages are important > > *as long as they are up-to-date*. > > > > The usual objection against translated manpages is that they're often > > outdated...which is true with a manual translation system. > > That not the issue either. The issue is that some of the _original_ > manpages are not up-to-date and poorly written. Whatever process we use, > the translations are not going to be up-to-date either, and probably > full of mistake because the original was unclear. To be translated is one of the best way to be reviewed. Tranlators should tell the maintainer if some sentences are not understandable. To ship out-of-date manpages is another problem... Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (14/12/2005): > (surrealistic discussion we have among 3 French-speaking > people...:-))) +1 Cheers, -- Thomas Huriaux --- configure.ac2005-10-31 20:36:50.0 +0100 +++ configure.ac.new2005-12-15 16:29:31.0 +0100 @@ -8,6 +8,14 @@ dnl Checks for programs. AC_PROG_CXX +AC_PATH_PROG(PO4A, po4a) +if test "x$PO4A" = "x" ; then + AM_CONDITIONAL(USE_PO4A, false) +else + AM_CONDITIONAL(USE_PO4A, true) +fi + AC_PROG_INSTALL dnl Checks for libraries. --- Makefile.am 2005-12-11 21:21:54.0 +0100 +++ Makefile.am.new 2005-12-15 16:30:50.0 +0100 @@ -26,8 +26,6 @@ %.gz: % gzip --best --force --stdout $< > $@ -clean-local: - rm -f menu-one-file.html maintainer-clean-local: rm -rf menu.html *.info* *.txt* @@ -60,3 +58,23 @@ rm -r $(DESTDIR)$(pkgdocdir) rm -r $(DESTDIR)$(pkgdatadir)/default rm$(DESTDIR)$(infodir)/menu.info.gz + + +if USE_PO4A + +BUILT_SOURCES = po4a-all + +po4a-all: + $(PO4A) po4a/po4a.cfg + +po4a-clean: + $(PO4A) po4a/po4a.cfg + +clean-local: po4a-clean + rm -f menu-one-file.html + +else +clean-local: + rm -f menu-one-file.html + +endif signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
> That not the issue either. The issue is that some of the _original_ > manpages are not up-to-date and poorly written. Whatever process we use, > the translations are not going to be up-to-date either, and probably > full of mistake because the original was unclear. As far as I know from po4a (Nicolas will correct if needed), the strings in these manpages will anyway be marked as fuzzy, so that translators have to review them. Nicolas, do you confirm? > > > Using po4a guarantees that the translated manpage remains up-to-date > > because changed strings fuzzy the translations and are not used. This > > may result in a translated manpage which is a mix of English and > > another languagewhich you can decide not shipping with your > > package with a special case of the build system. > > > > > > So, again, are you completely ruling out po4a in either the package > > build system or the "upstream" tarballs build system? > > No, I am not. OK, that makes all this clearer for me. Sorry for having been a little bit "heavy" as we all say in French...:) (surrealistic discussion we have among 3 French-speaking people...:-))) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 08:34:58AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: > > > Well frankly, I prefer to handle that myself. This way I can decide a string > > That doesn't scale, sorry. What will happen when you'll get more than > 60 translations ? :-). Will you check each one and try to decide > whether it is up-to-date or not to decide shipping it or not? How it is related to string freeze ? If there are 60 translations, I _much_ prefer not to get updates before the start of the string freeze. > What I can't figure out is whether you don't want to use po4a at > allor just avoid shipping PO files in your tarball. I don't want the _upstream_ build system to require po4a. I don't mind about the Debian build system, provide the translation are not specific t Debian. There are other issues with po4a, mainly that the output does not match the currentl manpage layout, so it make harder to review, but that can probably be fixed. > I actually don't care of the intermediate steps as long as we can > guarantee that we have in Debian: > > -a convenient file for translators to work on: PO files are > convenient, manpages aren't > -always up-to-date files > > If you can add to this a convenient way to ship tarballs with > up-to-date manpages to other vendors, that's fine. > > > Yes, but given the current state of the English manpages, does it worth > > the trouble ? I don't mind the French translation since I can fix both > > the English and French at once. > > > > If the manpages are important enough to be translated, they must probably > > be rewritten first. Which I am doing slowly, but I am not a good English > > writer anyway. > > Manpages are always important. And translated manpages are important > *as long as they are up-to-date*. > > The usual objection against translated manpages is that they're often > outdated...which is true with a manual translation system. That not the issue either. The issue is that some of the _original_ manpages are not up-to-date and poorly written. Whatever process we use, the translations are not going to be up-to-date either, and probably full of mistake because the original was unclear. > Using po4a guarantees that the translated manpage remains up-to-date > because changed strings fuzzy the translations and are not used. This > may result in a translated manpage which is a mix of English and > another languagewhich you can decide not shipping with your > package with a special case of the build system. > > > So, again, are you completely ruling out po4a in either the package > build system or the "upstream" tarballs build system? No, I am not. Cheers, -- Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Imagine a large red swirl here.
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
> Well frankly, I prefer to handle that myself. This way I can decide a string That doesn't scale, sorry. What will happen when you'll get more than 60 translations ? :-). Will you check each one and try to decide whether it is up-to-date or not to decide shipping it or not? What I can't figure out is whether you don't want to use po4a at allor just avoid shipping PO files in your tarball. I actually don't care of the intermediate steps as long as we can guarantee that we have in Debian: -a convenient file for translators to work on: PO files are convenient, manpages aren't -always up-to-date files If you can add to this a convenient way to ship tarballs with up-to-date manpages to other vendors, that's fine. > Yes, but given the current state of the English manpages, does it worth > the trouble ? I don't mind the French translation since I can fix both > the English and French at once. > > If the manpages are important enough to be translated, they must probably > be rewritten first. Which I am doing slowly, but I am not a good English > writer anyway. Manpages are always important. And translated manpages are important *as long as they are up-to-date*. The usual objection against translated manpages is that they're often outdated...which is true with a manual translation system. Using po4a guarantees that the translated manpage remains up-to-date because changed strings fuzzy the translations and are not used. This may result in a translated manpage which is a mix of English and another languagewhich you can decide not shipping with your package with a special case of the build system. So, again, are you completely ruling out po4a in either the package build system or the "upstream" tarballs build system?
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 07:56:03PM +0100, Nicolas François wrote: > Hi! > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 04:35:03PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > I could not apply your patch wholesale because switchng to po4a cause > > too much practical issues. > > No problem. > > I don't really see the practical issue: > * If it is because install-menu.fr.1 could not be generated, maybe -k0 >could help (or just removing this file from the distributed files). At >least po4a points to the maintainer which man pages are ways too >outdated and should not be distributed. > * If the problem is the additionnal dependency, a manual generation would >be nice. The practical issue is that I am upstream and that people can take the tarball and build menu from source. Actually the Mandrake people do that. I don't want to be an obnoxious upstream. This mean building the package should not require special programs. So the French manpages should be in shipped in the tarball. > One advantage of using po4a at build time (or running po4a manually every > time a man page is changed) is that the French Translation Team is > automatically informed when a PO needs to be updated. Well frankly, I prefer to handle that myself. This way I can decide a string freeze and ask for translation update. This avoid translators wasting time with preliminary/broken versions. This also let me ask the debian-l10n-english to review it before the translators. > In any case, keeping the po4a directory in the source package (i.e. build > the French man pages manually at regular/irregular time) will help the > future translators. Yes, but given the current state of the English manpages, does it worth the trouble ? I don't mind the French translation since I can fix both the English and French at once. If the manpages are important enough to be translated, they must probably be rewritten first. Which I am doing slowly, but I am not a good English writer anyway. > I've seen a major rewrite of the install-menu.1 man page (this probably > fuzzyed most of its strings, and thus avoided its generation). > > If you wish, I can update the PO (and have it reviewed). Yes, please translate the install-menu.1 manpage, it should be better than the previous version. Cheers, -- Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Imagine a large red swirl here.
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
Hi! On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 04:35:03PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I could not apply your patch wholesale because switchng to po4a cause > too much practical issues. No problem. I don't really see the practical issue: * If it is because install-menu.fr.1 could not be generated, maybe -k0 could help (or just removing this file from the distributed files). At least po4a points to the maintainer which man pages are ways too outdated and should not be distributed. * If the problem is the additionnal dependency, a manual generation would be nice. One advantage of using po4a at build time (or running po4a manually every time a man page is changed) is that the French Translation Team is automatically informed when a PO needs to be updated. In any case, keeping the po4a directory in the source package (i.e. build the French man pages manually at regular/irregular time) will help the future translators. If there is any technical issue with po4a (like a man page not being supported, or a badly generated man page), it can certainly be fixed. > In menu 2.4.27 I have merged the following: >- Add French su-to-root.1 and menufile.5 translations. >- Remove verbatim environment from su-to-root.1 and install-menu.1 > > I will merge the rest later on. Also I have rewritten the install-menu > manpage and removed the wm-menu-config manpage. I've seen a major rewrite of the install-menu.1 man page (this probably fuzzyed most of its strings, and thus avoided its generation). If you wish, I can update the PO (and have it reviewed). Cheers, -- Nekral -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 05:49:35PM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: > > I could not apply your patch wholesale because switchng to po4a cause > > too much practical issues. > > Doe this means that you won't switch to po4a at all...or just don't > switch *now*? I am not switching to the way it was used in the patch, no. However there might be more convenient ways to use po4a. Cheers, -- Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Imagine a large red swirl here. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
> I could not apply your patch wholesale because switchng to po4a cause > too much practical issues. Doe this means that you won't switch to po4a at all...or just don't switch *now*? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 01:13:40PM +0200, Nicolas François wrote: > Package: menu > Version: 2.1.26 > Severity: wishlist > Tags: patch l10n > > Hello, > > Please find attached a patch that adds the French translation of the > menu's man pages. Hello Nicolas, Thanks for your translations! I could not apply your patch wholesale because switchng to po4a cause too much practical issues. In menu 2.4.27 I have merged the following: - Add French su-to-root.1 and menufile.5 translations. - Remove verbatim environment from su-to-root.1 and install-menu.1 I will merge the rest later on. Also I have rewritten the install-menu manpage and removed the wm-menu-config manpage. Also I made some small changes to the translations. Cheers, -- Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Imagine a large red swirl here.
Bug#335675: menu: [INTL:fr] Manpages translation to French
Package: menu Version: 2.1.26 Severity: wishlist Tags: patch l10n Hello, Please find attached a patch that adds the French translation of the menu's man pages. This patch consists in: * debian/control: Build-Depends on po4a, which is used to generate the French man pages at build time (this ensure a always up-to-date translation, i.e. if a paragraph is modified, the English paragraph will be distributed until we (the Debian French translation team) notice it) * debian/rules: Add the build time generation of the man pages and French manpages distribution. * doc/install-menu.1, doc/su-to-root.1, doc/update-menus.1, doc/wm-menu-config.8: Remove some groff macro definition This is safe: the headers define the CW and CE macros, which are never used afterward. These definitions were cut&pasted from another man page (strace.1) This modification is needed to run po4a. * doc/update-menus.fr.1: removed. It is now automatically generated by po4a * doc/Makefile.am: Removes the update-menus.fr.1 man page from EXTRA_DIST * doc/po4a: This directory contains the files needed to run po4a, and the French translation. This framework can be used by other translation team. Thanks in advance, -- Nekral menu.fr_manpages.patch.bz2 Description: Binary data
