Bug#826680: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#826680: Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Michael Biebl]

Am 10.08.2016 um 15:58 schrieb Cesare Leonardi:
> So why it shouldn't behave like reported in the man page? That is, if
> the "dhcp" key is missing, "available DHCP clients are looked for in
> this order: dhclient, dhcpcd, internal".

Oh, I wasn't actually aware of this behaviour (i.e. the automatic
fallback). Thanks for the hint.

With that new information I have no objection to demote isc-dhcp-client
to Recommends.

Regards,
Michael

-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Bug#826680: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Cesare Leonardi]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 23:49:33 +0200 Michael Biebl  wrote:

The default configuration still uses isc-dhcp-client, unless it's
explicitly configured otherwise.


I don't understand this phrase. The default NetworkManager.conf comes 
with only these directives:

--
[main]
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile

[ifupdown]
managed=false
--

So why it shouldn't behave like reported in the man page? That is, if 
the "dhcp" key is missing, "available DHCP clients are looked for in 
this order: dhclient, dhcpcd, internal".


FTR, i also currently use the internal dhcp client without any problem.

Cesare.

Bug#826680: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#826680: Bug#826680: Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Tue 2016-06-07 18:52:27 -0400, Michael Biebl wrote:
> [ Unknown signature status ]
> Am 08.06.2016 um 00:35 schrieb Michael Biebl:
>> The problem here is that turning the depends into a recommends could
>> lead to isc-dhcp-client to be uninstalled on upgrades.
>> I'd have to verify that, but if the package was marked as auto-installed
>> (which it typically is), I will be uninstalled by "apt autoremove" or
>> aptitude upgrade. This would be very undesirable.
>
> # apt upgrade
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Calculating upgrade... Done
> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
> required:
>   iproute2 isc-dhcp-client libdns-export162 libisc-export160
> Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
> The following packages will be upgraded:
>   libgdbm3 libnm0 linux-libc-dev network-manager
> 4 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Need to get 4640 kB of archives.
> After this operation, 47.1 kB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

so this isn't auto-installed, but is proposed for removal with
autoremove.

> # aptitude upgrade
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   iproute2{u} isc-dhcp-client{u} libdns-export162{u} libisc-export160{u}
> The following packages will be upgraded:
>   libgdbm3 libnm0 linux-libc-dev network-manager
> The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
>   crda dnsmasq-base iptables iputils-arping modemmanager ppp wader-core
> 4 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Need to get 4640 kB of archives. After unpacking 4822 kB will be freed.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]

sounds like aptitude is being more aggressive.

But again, this is due to the user having manually configured (at least)

   APT::Install-Recommends "0";

right?   Isn't that what they're asking for?

How frequently do we expect network-manager's built-in dhcp client to
fail on normal networks?

 --dkg


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Bug#826680: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#826680: Bug#826680: Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Michael Biebl]

Am 08.06.2016 um 00:35 schrieb Michael Biebl:
> The problem here is that turning the depends into a recommends could
> lead to isc-dhcp-client to be uninstalled on upgrades.
> I'd have to verify that, but if the package was marked as auto-installed
> (which it typically is), I will be uninstalled by "apt autoremove" or
> aptitude upgrade. This would be very undesirable.

# apt upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
required:
  iproute2 isc-dhcp-client libdns-export162 libisc-export160
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libgdbm3 libnm0 linux-libc-dev network-manager
4 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 4640 kB of archives.
After this operation, 47.1 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

# aptitude upgrade
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  iproute2{u} isc-dhcp-client{u} libdns-export162{u} libisc-export160{u}
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libgdbm3 libnm0 linux-libc-dev network-manager
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
  crda dnsmasq-base iptables iputils-arping modemmanager ppp wader-core
4 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 4640 kB of archives. After unpacking 4822 kB will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]




-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Bug#826680: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#826680: Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Michael Biebl]

Am 08.06.2016 um 00:27 schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
> Users which turn off Recommends on an already-installed system will
> already have isc-dhcp-client installed, and won't end up with no network
> connection upon upgrade even if the internal dhcp client *doesn't* work
> on their local network.  And users who are doing a fresh install while
> forcing --no-install-recommends on an unusually-broken network might
> need to either drop --no-install-recommends, or add isc-dhcp-client to
> their configuration explicitly.
> 

The problem here is that turning the depends into a recommends could
lead to isc-dhcp-client to be uninstalled on upgrades.
I'd have to verify that, but if the package was marked as auto-installed
(which it typically is), I will be uninstalled by "apt autoremove" or
aptitude upgrade. This would be very undesirable.


-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Bug#826680: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Tue 2016-06-07 17:49:33 -0400, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Am 07.06.2016 um 23:33 schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
>> Given that network-manager ships with an internal DHCP client, it seems like
>> isc-dhcp-client should be a Recommends: and not a Depends:
>
> The default configuration still uses isc-dhcp-client, unless it's
> explicitly configured otherwise. So not having isc-dhcp-client installed
> means it's very likely that your network connection will be broken.
>  I'm worried that I'll have enough users which turn off Recommends and
> will end up with no network connection.

It sounds to me like you're saying that the internal dhcp client
actually can't handle some common set of networks that users are likely
to encounter.  Is that the case?  In my experience, it works on common
networks i've tried.

fwiw, this is exactly the reason we have Recommends: -- normal users get
to have things that work in the "usual" way, and people who want a
stripped-down system get a stripped-down system (potentially meaning
that they might have to do some additional fiddling if they meet a
corner case).

Users which turn off Recommends on an already-installed system will
already have isc-dhcp-client installed, and won't end up with no network
connection upon upgrade even if the internal dhcp client *doesn't* work
on their local network.  And users who are doing a fresh install while
forcing --no-install-recommends on an unusually-broken network might
need to either drop --no-install-recommends, or add isc-dhcp-client to
their configuration explicitly.

I think this is the right set of tradeoffs, fwiw.  Otherwise, we're
going to end up with "dependency inflation" where we add a
"really-recommends" or a "probably-depends" or something silly like that
;)

Thanks for your work on network-manager!

   --dkg


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Bug#826680: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Michael Biebl]

Am 07.06.2016 um 23:33 schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
> Given that network-manager ships with an internal DHCP client, it seems like
> isc-dhcp-client should be a Recommends: and not a Depends:

The default configuration still uses isc-dhcp-client, unless it's
explicitly configured otherwise. So not having isc-dhcp-client installed
means it's very likely that your network connection will be broken.
 I'm worried that I'll have enough users which turn off Recommends and
will end up with no network connection.





-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Bug#826680: network-manager: please move isc-dhcp-client from Depends: to Recommends:

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

Package: network-manager
Version: 1.2.2-1
Severity: normal

NetworkManager.conf(5) says:

-
   dhcp
   This key sets up what DHCP client NetworkManager will use. Allowed
   values are dhclient, dhcpcd, and internal. The dhclient and dhcpcd
   options require the indicated clients to be installed. The internal
   option uses a built-in DHCP client which is not currently as
   featureful as the external clients.

   If this key is missing, available DHCP clients are looked for in
   this order: dhclient, dhcpcd, internal.
-

But the network-manager package Depends: isc-dhcp-client.

Given that network-manager ships with an internal DHCP client, it seems like
isc-dhcp-client should be a Recommends: and not a Depends:

Regards,

--dkg

-- System Information:
Debian Release: stretch/sid
  APT prefers unstable-debug
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable-debug'), (500, 'testing'), (200, 'unstable'), (1, 
'experimental-debug'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 4.5.0-2-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages network-manager depends on:
ii  adduser3.114
ii  dbus   1.10.8-1
ii  init-system-helpers1.34
ii  isc-dhcp-client4.3.4-1
ii  libaudit1  1:2.5.2-1
ii  libbluetooth3  5.36-1+b1
ii  libc6  2.22-9
ii  libglib2.0-0   2.48.1-1
ii  libgnutls303.4.12-2
ii  libgudev-1.0-0 230-3
ii  libmm-glib01.4.14-1
ii  libndp01.6-1
ii  libnewt0.520.52.18-3
ii  libnl-3-2003.2.27-1
ii  libnm0 1.2.2-1
ii  libpam-systemd 230-2
ii  libpolkit-agent-1-00.105-15
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0  0.105-15
ii  libreadline6   6.3-8+b4
ii  libselinux12.5-3
ii  libsoup2.4-1   2.54.1-1
ii  libsystemd0230-2
ii  libteamdctl0   1.24-1
ii  libuuid1   2.28-5
ii  lsb-base   9.20160601
ii  policykit-10.105-15
ii  udev   230-2
ii  wpasupplicant  2.3-2.3

Versions of packages network-manager recommends:
pn  crda
pn  dnsmasq-base
ii  iptables1.6.0-2
pn  iputils-arping  
pn  modemmanager
ii  ppp 2.4.7-1+2

Versions of packages network-manager suggests:
pn  libteam-utils  

-- Configuration Files:
/etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf changed [not included]

-- debconf-show failed