Re: Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

 > any news on libc6 2.0.6?   an ETA, perhaps?

 David Engel posted a week or so ago saying he's packaged it, and gave
 a URL.  I went and got it, and have been running it since with no
 apparent problems.

 Maintainer: David Engel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Source: glibc
 Version: 2.0.6-0.2

 I'm not advanced enough to know how to perform any tests for the leak
 you guys are talking about though.  But it runs fine. :-)


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Re: [PGP]: can someone in NYC sign me?

[Alex Yukhimets]

> I'm hoping to get my PGP keys signed by a known and registered debian
> developer in the NYC area so as to comply with the Debian Developer's
> Reference Section 1.2.
> 
> I'm located in Manhattan; specifically on the Lower East Side.
> Any takers?  Please reply to me offline.  Thanks.

> ...A. P. [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.onShore.com/>

Dear A. P. Harris,

if you don't mind coming to NYU, that's fine with me.
Just one question to the "public": is it OK to take a floppy with his
public key, sign it without his phisical presence and than e-mail
him the signed file back (encripted with his key)?

Thanks.

Alex Y.
-- 
   _ 
 _( )_
( (o___   +---+
 |  _ 7   |Alexander Yukhimets|
  \(")|   http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/  |
  / \ \   +---+


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Re: BS in rxvt+ncurses

[Adrian Bridgett]

On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 07:38:00PM -0500, Will Lowe wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Philip Hands wrote:
> 
> > BTW I'd be interested to hear any justification of why <--- == DEL
> 
> Well,  from a sheer visual standpoint,  seeing an arrow pointing to the
> left,  like on the BS key (<--),  makes one think that pushing that
> button's going to move the cursor that way,  just like the other arrow
> keys.  I've NEVER understood the funky behavior of the BS key on *nix.

I heard that the original DEC vt100? terminals had delete there and so they
decided that they wouldn't change it to delete to the left. Why Linux kept
this I don't know. Personally I don't care what it set to what, as long as
it works like in DOS/OS2/NT - and Atari :-)

Adrian

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Debian Linux - www.debian.org
http://www.poboxes.com/adrian.bridgett   | Because bloated, unstable 
PGP key available on public key servers  | operating systems are from MS


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Re: predepends on libc6?

[Kai Henningsen]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Troup)  wrote on 09.12.97 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kai Henningsen) writes:
>
> [ Deleted the part where the doubters once again fail to bother to
> yprove that ldconfig isn't necessary (Hint: the onus isn't on me; I
> don't care anymore, I *know* the policy manual is wrong, if you think
> otherwise, do something about it, either way I'm not going to waste
> more time discussing it) ]

All the time you spent on it was wasted. Assertions don't help anybody.

Note that I _don't_ assert that it's unnecessary (and neither, I believe,  
does Richard); I'd just like to learn what's going on. You, obviously,  
don't intend to tell, or maybe you don't know.

Ok, let's forget that until someone can aytually say something useful.

> > > [dpkg does ordering on configuration and removal, not install]
> >
> > Aah. Now _this_ is a good (and probably sufficient) point.
>
> [Just out of curiosity, why do you believe me about that? No, never
> mind, forget I asked]

Simple. Once reminded, I remembered that I already knew about that. It's  
kind of obvious when you watch dpkg -iGROEB.

> > From this, I'd say that everything needed by dpkg -i MUST pre-depend
> > on any other package that it needs for that functionality used by
> > dpkg -i.
>
> I don't think so.  Once gzip Pre-Depends on libc6, it shouldn't be
> possible for dpkg to get into a mess because it's unable to fork
> programs again.  The packages you mention below are all essential,
> dpkg can validly assume they'll be installed.  And because of their

It can assume they are unpacked, NOT that they are installed, not even  
that they are configurable, as you yourself just reminded us. The pre- 
depends are to force the right upgrade sequence.

IMHO, any packages needed by dpkg -i extremely-essential-package MUST be  
installed one-by-one, never two at once. That's the only way to guarantee  
we don't end up unpacking incompatible packages. Every upgrade of one of  
these must start from a working system, and end there.

The set of extremely-essential-packages should probably be defined like  
this:

1. whatever is needed to dpkg -i dpkg
2. whatever is needed to dpkg -i any-other-already-extremely-essential- 
package
(repeat until no more packages get added)

There's lots of essential packages that are not THAT essential. It's  
possible to recover from a broken login, for example, as long as you still  
have a running root shell. That's essential, but not extremely-essential.

> (If someone's forced the removal of an essential package all bets are
> off, so the only valid issue here is upgrading, as far as I can see)

True, but remember incompatible upgrades. With these packages, it's not  
enough that +X,Y is usable, +X needs to be  
usable by itself or we can't proceed to install Y (the gzip trap)!

It may be that a different strategy would be better than pre-depends, but  
we sure need _something_.

> > By the way, shouldn't Pre-Depends: only be used for Essential: yes
> > packages?
>
> No; I think there are valid uses of Pre-Depends for non-essential
> packages.
>
> > I see Pre-Depends: without Essential: in the following packages:
> > libc5, libc6, libreadline2
>
> You can't make shared library packages essential (Policy 2.3.7).

Hmm ... e2fslibsg, comerr2g, ldso are essential - well, ldso is a special  
case, and the e2fs stuff is known to be broken. Sounds about right.

> The version I can see (5.004.04-2) has only a Depends.  Perl-base is
> Essential and it's Pre-Depends are definitely a good thing, for, I
> hope, obvious reasons.

I've not yet seen that one, but it's probably already on my mirror. The  
one I mentioned was the 5.004.02, I believe.

MfG Kai


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Re: Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa

[Philippe Troin]

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:05:16 +1100 Craig Sanders ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Philippe Troin wrote:
> 
> > Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa.
> >
> > [...deleted...]
> >
> > In the meantime, you can link programs which do heavy inet_ntoa with
> > libpthread, it will cure the leak (diald 0.16.4-11 does this, as a
> > temporary measure while waiting for libc6 2.0.6).
> 
> ok, this is the bug i was looking for. anyone know if there is a fix
> for this yet? 
> 
> i just ran ldd on a random sample of daemons (sendmail, proftpd, squid,
> inetd, rpc.nfsd and apache...all latest versions as of yesterday) - none
> of them are linked with libpthread. imo it should be fixed in libc6 not in
> the daemonshowever, if a fix isn't going to be out for a while then
> these and other programs need to be recompiled asap. 
> 
> this bug is critical severity for any moderate-to-heavy use server.
> (it's crashed one of my mail servers and one of my gateway boxes already)
> 
> anyone got a fix apart from recompiling everything that uses inet_ntoa?
> 
> i've started a cron job to stop and restart various services every few
> hours, but that's a real crappy solutionespecially for squid - squid
> can take half an hour or more to restart on a big cache.

Libc6 2.0.6 fixes the problem.
Temporarily, you can link your programs with -lpthread.
*or* you can extract the working inet_ntoa.o from libc.a and link this function 
statically with:
ar x /usr/lib/libc.a inet_ntoa.o
ld  inet_ntoa.o

If Debian wants to have a patched libc6 2.0.5c, I've got the four lines patch.

Phil.



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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Gonzalo A. Diethelm]

On Dec  9, 1997, at 00:59, Carl Mummert wrote:
 > Assuming no Sender line, or Sender = From,  I beleive that the following 
 > mapping is compliant with the standard:
 > 
 > >From -> Sender  (Sender is omitted if 
 >  it is the same as From, 
 > but it's not, anymore)
 > Reply-To -> From (So From, as the rfc wants, shows the
 >  which machine the message came from)
 > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > 
 > In other words, 
 > 
 > ( reply-to == "debain-foo..." ? noop : 
 > (From == Sender || Sender == "") ? 
 >   Sender = from, from = reply-to, 
 >   reply-to = debain-foo :
 > x-old-sender = sender, sender = from, 
 > from = reply-to, reply-to = debain-foo )
 > 
 > 
 > Now, the questions are,  Can we do this? and Do we want to do this?

And the answers are (to me, at least): YES and YES!!!

I'm pretty sure procmail can handle this remapping. Otherwise,
sendmail should be up to the task. As others have pointed (even those
who are against setting the Reply-To header to point to the list),
this preserves all the original information and allows those who MUST
set Reply-To to something (i.e. those behind brain-dead firewalls) to
still set it to their advantage.

So, who do I pester now with the request to do this? Who is the list
administrator?

 > Carl Mummert

-- 
Gonzalo Diethelm # Windows 95: n. 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally 
 =Debian Linux=  # coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit 
 www.debian.org  # company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition.


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Re: Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa

[Craig Sanders]

On 10 Dec 1997, Miquel van Smoorenburg wrote:

> >ok, this is the bug i was looking for. anyone know if there is a fix
> >for this yet? 
> 
> Yep, download libc6_2.0.6-0.2 (prerelease 2) from
> ftp://ftp.ods.com/pub/linux/ and send [EMAIL PROTECTED] an email
> with your experiences ..

THANK YOU!!

i wasn't expecting that this would be fixed yet.  you've made my day!

(and thanks to whoever compiled it too)

> Has been running fine here for two or three weeks.

excellent.

craig



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Re: Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa

[Miquel van Smoorenburg]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Craig Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Philippe Troin wrote:
>
>> Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa.
>>
>> [...deleted...]
>>
>ok, this is the bug i was looking for. anyone know if there is a fix
>for this yet? 

Yep, download libc6_2.0.6-0.2 (prerelease 2) from
ftp://ftp.ods.com/pub/linux/ and send [EMAIL PROTECTED] an email
with your experiences ..

Has been running fine here for two or three weeks.

Mike.
-- 
 Miquel van Smoorenburg |  Studying to be a technomage   <*>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | "May you live in interesting times"


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Re: Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Philippe Troin wrote:

> Libc6 2.0.5c has a leak in inet_ntoa.
>
> [...deleted...]
>
> The inside story is: due to a problem with libc6, libc_create_key is
> not declared as a weak symbol of libpthread, and it's not wrapped in
> a macro which detects if the program is linked with libpthread.  The
> result is that during the first call to inet_ntoa(), a libc_once
> initialization routine is called, it thinks it's linked with
> libpthread and attempts to create a thread-specific return buffer
> through libc_create_key.
>
> [...deleted...]
>
> In the meantime, you can link programs which do heavy inet_ntoa with
> libpthread, it will cure the leak (diald 0.16.4-11 does this, as a
> temporary measure while waiting for libc6 2.0.6).

ok, this is the bug i was looking for. anyone know if there is a fix
for this yet? 

i just ran ldd on a random sample of daemons (sendmail, proftpd, squid,
inetd, rpc.nfsd and apache...all latest versions as of yesterday) - none
of them are linked with libpthread. imo it should be fixed in libc6 not in
the daemonshowever, if a fix isn't going to be out for a while then
these and other programs need to be recompiled asap. 

this bug is critical severity for any moderate-to-heavy use server.
(it's crashed one of my mail servers and one of my gateway boxes already)

anyone got a fix apart from recompiling everything that uses inet_ntoa?

i've started a cron job to stop and restart various services every few
hours, but that's a real crappy solutionespecially for squid - squid
can take half an hour or more to restart on a big cache.


any news on libc6 2.0.6?   an ETA, perhaps?

craig



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Debian entry in the German Distribution HOWTO

[Marco Budde]

Hi!

It would be nice if anybody could write a new official entry for the
Debian distribution for my German Distribution HOWTO. Thanks.


--

Debian GNU/Linux 1.2



Hersteller:
  The Debian Linux Association
  Software in the Public Interest
  P.O. Box 70152
  Pt. Richmond CA 94807-0152 (USA)

  Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
 name="[EMAIL PROTECTED]">
  WWW: http://www.debian.org/";
   name="http://www.debian.org/";>
  FTP: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/";
   name="ftp.debian.org:/debian/">

Beschreibung des Herstellers:

  Debian ist eine freie Linux-Distribution. Seine Entwickler sind 160
  unbezahlte Freiwillige aus der gesamten Welt, die nber das Internet
  zusammenarbeiten. Die Qualitaet von Debian haelt jeden Vergleich mit
  den besten kommerziellen Unix- und Linux-Systemen stand. Ein
  detailierter Katalog der Software-Pakete in Debian kann unter der URL
  http://www.debian.org/FTP/";
  name="http://www.debian.org/FTP/";> gefunden werden.

  Debian 1.2 ist fuer uns eine besondere Veroeffentlichung.  Wir zeigen
  mit dieser Veroeffentlichung, dass Debian ein ausgereiftes System ist
  und dass wir zur fuehrenden Linux-Distribution werden koennen.  Debians
  Verpflichtung zur freien Software, seine gemeinnuetzige Organisation
  und sein offenes Entwicklungsmodell machen es einzigartig unter den
  Linux-Distributionen.

  Debian 1.2 benutzt den Linux-Kernel in der Version 2.0.27.  Eine
  besondere Eigenschaft von Debian ist die umfassendste Software-
  Management aller Unix- und Linux-Systeme.  Die Software-Management
  holt automatisch die Software-Pakete von einem Debian FTP-Server oder
  liest sie von Festplatte, CD-ROM oder ueber NFS.  Es erneuert,
  installiert oder deinstalliert Software-Pakete nach Ihren Wuenschen.
  Die fuer jedes Paket definierten dependencies
  (Abhaengigkeiten), einem von Debian schon sehr frueh genutzten
  Mechanismus, sorgen dafuer, dass
  die zum ordnungsgemaessen Funktionieren eines Paketes benoetigten anderen
  Pakete von der Software-Management angezeigt und auf Ihren Wunsch hin
  ebenfalls installiert werden.  Ein neues Merkmal ist die Faehigkeit der
  automatischen Konversion von Red Hat- oder Slackware-Paketen
  unter Verwendung unseres alien-Programmes.  Die konvertierten
  Pakete koennen erneuert, installiert oder deinstalliert werden, ganz
  wie normale Debian-Pakete auch.

  Es sind Portierungen von Debian 1.2 auf die m68k-, ALPHA- und
  SPARC-Architektur in Entwicklung.  Prototyp-Systeme fuer m68k und ALPHA
  existieren bereits und stehen Entwicklern zur Verfuegung. Die SPARC-
  Portierung wird zur Zeit gerade gestartet und eine Portierung auf die
  MIPS-Architektur ist nicht ausgeschlossen.

  Es gibt zwei Versionen der Debian-Distribution: die stable
  und die development oder Entwickler-Version.  Das
  stable-Verzeichnis
  enthaelt augenblicklich Debian-1.2.0.  Alle paar Wochen erfolgen
  sogenannte point releases, die der Fehlerbeseitigung und der
  Verbesserung dienen.  Jedoch erfolgen keine grundlegenden Aenderungen
  vor dem nEchsten major release.  Die Entwickler-Version
  dient der Entwicklung von Debian 2.0.  Das
  development-Verzeichnis wird kontinuierlich auf den aktuellen
  Stand gebracht und Sie koennen die Pakete aus der
  development-Hierarchie unserer FTP-Server benutzen,
  um Ihr System jederzeit auf den neuesten Stand zu bringen.  Damit wird
  Benutzern, die ein stabiles System brauchen, genauso gedient wie
  jenen, die immer auf dem neuesten Stand der Entwicklung bleiben
  wollen.

  Debian wurde 1993 von Ian Murdock gegruendet, und seine Arbeit wurde
  ein Jahr durch das GNU-Projekt der FSF unterstuetzt.  Debian sollte als
  direkter Abkoemmling des GNU-Systems verstanden werden.  Obwohl Debian
  und die FSF unterschiedliche Organisationen sind, verfolgen sie doch
  die gleichen Ziele, und wir unterhalten freundschaftliche Beziehungen
  zur FSF.


Bezug per Internet:
  
  Nord-Amerika:

  ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/";
name="ftp.debian.org:/debian/">


  Deutschland:

  ftp://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/pub/debian/";
name="os.inf.tu-dresden.de:/pub/debian/">
  ftp://ftp.Uni-Mainz.DE/pub/Linux/debian/";
name="ftp.Uni-Mainz.DE:/pub/Linux/debian/">


  Oesterreich:

  ftp://dwst20.edvz.sbg.ac.at/pub/unix/systems/linux/intel/debian/";
 name="dwst20.edvz.sbg.ac.at:/pub/unix/systems/linux/intel/debian/">



Diese Server verfuegen ueber eine Liste mit weiteren FTP-Servern in
der Datei README.mirrors, so dass Sie den nEchstliegenden
FTP-Server fin

Emacs 20 volunteer wanted

[Mark W. Eichin]

I'd promised to package up emacs 20 at some point (since that would
save the hassle of going back and forth to sure emacs19 and xemacs*
would all coexist :-) but I recently joined a new startup company, and
with some of the other projects eating my personal time, I'm just not
going to have time to do it.  Would someone like to volunteer to
package *and maintain* emacs20?  [If you're also interested in taking
over emacs19, I'd consider doing a final release of my remaining
changes and handing it off too, but this is not a requirement.]

This is not a beginner's project -- though it was one of the first
packages I worked on for debian, it was mostly because the previous
maintainer had run out of time and was 3 releases behind.  There are
some interesting challenges (like making sure .elc files get rebuilt
when you patch the .el, since you can't patch the [binary] elc
files... oops, that's not actually working in emacs19 either :-) and
the multi-emacs interaction creates some constraints of its own.

I'll note that there's no basis for me having any *authority* in this
regard -- but I'll ask you to email me to volunteer anyway (please
mention what other packages you maintain or what other things you do
for debian, and how much time you think you'll have...)  It shouldn't
be a *huge* time commitment (though emacs20 is a moving target, so
it'll be more of an issue than emacs19) but it is a bit subtle.

_Mark_ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Herd of Kittens
Debian Emacs (and X, and too much else) Maintainer


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Re: windows nt and linux

[Nils Rennebarth]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On 9 Dec 1997, Ben Gertzfield wrote:
> > "Mandark!" == Mandark!  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Mandark!> and I want to install linux over ms-dos. BUT on the dos
> Mandark!> partition there is a windows nt file which is VITAL and
> Mandark!> contains the nt boot record (ms-dos mbr occupies the mbr
> Mandark!> space) and if linux toasts it, my computer will cease to
> Mandark!> work. is there a way to preserve this file when linux
> Mandark!> reformats the partition? thanx...  -Matthew
> I think if you tell the Debian installation process not to install
> LILO, you'll be okay.
NO that's not true. The NT bootloader is there. As another member of the
list mentioned, even the NT rescue disk would not help in such a case.

What you could do is to delete (under MSDOS) every file of this partion,
except the system files:
  \boot.ini
  \autoexec.bat
  \boot.ini
  \bootsect.dos
  \command.com
  \config.sys
  \io.sys
  \msdos.sys
  \ntdetect.com
  \ntldr

Then you could shrink this partition to a rather small one using fips and 
install linux in the free space in between. No need for PartitionMagic.

Nils


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Charset: noconv

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IBiejC4yl1kpnJxOOgE5Es10jYTkLOs8EO/xYrY+DaO4pvWZGxiL3AZDZDxSRM+m
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Debian needs guinea pigs

[Brandon Mitchell]

Do you have a little spare time?
Do you have some extra hard drive space?
Do you enjoy being the first to try something new?
Do you want to be on a low volume mailing list (compared to debian-user)?
Do you want to help debian become the most popular linux distribution?
Do you want women to adore you? (ok, maybe we can't do this)

If you answered yes to zero or more of the above, you're a perfect
candidate to join the Debian Testing Group!  We're looking for a few good
guinea pigs in preparation of the Debian 2.0 release.  Basically, we
install as many times as possible (although one is more than enough),
making sure all the programs work.  If you are interested in joining, send
me a short message detailing what you can do, and in a few days, you'll be
added to our mailing list.  New users are welcome!

I've included a more detailed description of our testing process below to
give you an idea of how this works.

Brandon

-
Brandon Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   "We all know linux is great... it
PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED]  does infinite loops in 5 seconds"
Phone: (757) 221-4847  --Linus Torvalds


DEBIAN TESTING GROUP PROCESS

The following document summarizes the methods used by the Debian Testing
Group. Testing is primarily focused around the time when the distribution
is "Frozen" before a release, but test reports are welcomed at any time
either before the freeze or after it. All reports should be posted to:
"debian-testing@lists.debian.org", while all bugs should be reported
according to: "http://www.debian.org/Bugs";.


I. Upgrade Install Testing

The first type of testing to occur during this period is upgrade testing.
The tester should attempt to point dselect from an older installation to a
Debian mirror.  Any error messages during the installation should be
reported along with any work-arounds.  Once the upgrade is complete, as
many individual packages should be tested as possible (see section III).


II. Base Install Testing

The second type of testing involves an installation from scratch.  This
will usually involve creating the rescue, root, and base disk (or any of
the other options, including the zero floppy install).  Once this is
complete, the tester should attempt to install any desired packages and
then test as many individual packages as possible (see section III).


III. Individual Package Testing

A list of packages and their checklist will be kept in one large file.
This should be kept at "http://bhmit1.home.ml.org/deb/checklist.html";.  
If you find a package that fails an item in the checklist, please report
it as a bug. Once you have verified that all test have passed, you can
report the package as being tested.  If you are only able to test some of
the items in the checklist, you may report this too, but specify what you
have tested.

The checklist will initially be created by the maintainer.  However,
anyone is free to add to or modify a checklist by sending e-mail to the
testers mailing list or "[EMAIL PROTECTED]".

Note that there will also be a checklist for all packages, and a checklist
for groups of packages.  If the package belongs to a group, this will be
an item in it's list.

During a testing period, a list of untested packages will periodically be
posted to the testing list.  Copies will also be sent to debian-devel
(less frequently) so that any developers can assist in the testing
process.


IV. Testing Report

Comments are placed in [ ].  This report is an example only.

Report Information:
  Name: Brandon Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Date: December 8, 1997
  Target:   2.0 (ftp.debian.org)
  Source:   1.3 [ or base install / package testing ]
  Method:   dselect - ftp [ or base disk, zero floppy ]

Machine Information:
[ note, I'm trying not post unimportant info. ]
  Platform: Pentium 90
  Memory:   16 Megs
  Cd rom:   ide
  SCSI: aha152x
  Network:  ne2000
  Modem:33.6 Hayes compat
  Sound:SB 16
  Video:Stealth 64 (1 meg)

General Installation Notes / Error List:
[ not needed for package only reports. ]
  Libc5-libc6 HOWTO worked without a problem.

Successful Package List:
  bash
  sendmail
  pine
  pico

Failed Packages List (bug reports filed for below packages):
[ again note, this is fictional. ]
  apsfilter 
failed install, caught in infinite loop
  bc
option -l failed
  wuftp
did not limit after 10 connections



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Re: windows nt and linux

[Sten Anderson]

"Matthew R. Briggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> No, I don't think that will do it.  He's talking about ntldr and boot.ini,
> which NT places in the root directory of the boot drive...in his case a
> 300MB FAT partition.  If he reformats for ext2, the NT boot loader will
> not exist anymore, and even his NT Emergency Boot Disk will not be able to
> save him.

Sad but true...
 
> Matthew, unfortunately there isn't much you can do in this situation if
> you want to keep NT.  If you're willing to reinstall NT, make NT live on
> the boot partition and format the whole thing NTFS.  ntldr and boot.ini
> will go into the NTFS partition, and you can use "bootsect" to boot Linux
> from the NT boot prompt...they can co-exist quite happily at that point. 
> But at the moment, you won't be able to use that FAT partition for Linux
> unless you go with umsdos, which is a whole different can of worms.
 
I would like to add the warning, that if NT is installed on a bootable 
NTFS partition, you should at no point experiment with LILO. In such a 
setup NT "takes ownership" of the MBR and wont allow anything else to
touch it. If you want to use LILO, you should boot NT from a FAT
partition. Otherwise you should use bootsect, as Matthew suggests. If
you don't like the bootsect method, you could make a small (10MB)
bootable FAT partition, followed by a larger NTFS partition for NT and
one or more partitions for Linux. Perhaps an tool like Partition Magic 
could "shrink" your FAT partion, and you could thus get this setup
without touching NT. 

- Sten Anderson
 


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[PGP]: can someone in NYC sign me?

[Adam P. Harris]

I'm hoping to get my PGP keys signed by a known and registered debian
developer in the NYC area so as to comply with the Debian Developer's
Reference Section 1.2.

I'm located in Manhattan; specifically on the Lower East Side.
Any takers?  Please reply to me offline.  Thanks.

.A. P. [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.onShore.com/>


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Re: windows nt and linux

[Matthew R. Briggs]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

No, I don't think that will do it.  He's talking about ntldr and boot.ini,
which NT places in the root directory of the boot drive...in his case a
300MB FAT partition.  If he reformats for ext2, the NT boot loader will
not exist anymore, and even his NT Emergency Boot Disk will not be able to
save him.

Matthew, unfortunately there isn't much you can do in this situation if
you want to keep NT.  If you're willing to reinstall NT, make NT live on
the boot partition and format the whole thing NTFS.  ntldr and boot.ini
will go into the NTFS partition, and you can use "bootsect" to boot Linux
from the NT boot prompt...they can co-exist quite happily at that point. 
But at the moment, you won't be able to use that FAT partition for Linux
unless you go with umsdos, which is a whole different can of worms.

I've just skimmed over the details here, but I do have some experience
with NT and Debian on the same machine, so if you need more info please
say so.

Matt


On 9 Dec 1997, Ben Gertzfield wrote:

> > "Mandark!" == Mandark!  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> Mandark!> and I want to install linux over ms-dos. BUT on the dos
> Mandark!> partition there is a windows nt file which is VITAL and
> Mandark!> contains the nt boot record (ms-dos mbr occupies the mbr
> Mandark!> space) and if linux toasts it, my computer will cease to
> Mandark!> work. is there a way to preserve this file when linux
> Mandark!> reformats the partition? thanx...  -Matthew
> 
> I think if you tell the Debian installation process not to install
> LILO, you'll be okay. I've been told that LILO 20 (the most recent
> version in the unstable distribution of Debian) fixes this problem.
> 
> -- 
> Brought to you by the letters W and N and the number 7.
> "Bill Gates is a talented evil man." -- Chip Salzenberg
> Ben Gertzfield  Finger me for my public
> PGP key. I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet and YiffNet IRC as Che_Fox.
> 
> 
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> TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] . 
> Trouble?  e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
> 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: 2.6.3ia
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNI2rVsaG/4qMp9f5AQGgzwP/cUSnwTiNHe4Bu7Bkt53iiPSld1FZsL05
k+wwN+K3k3At61UqFJELXBU6RbmcS4Vluro3IOdJa10lrQJT2kUK0rLjwrdEvni7
3D+u4KvdtxikB/L+t+P/Jd2mV/5O471oe0T0FaDHJtUI0N/Fl/PJR70Ei6b6mW/b
XEnXDiNHhL0=
=XBgW
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06

[Igor Grobman]

>
> > Igor Grobman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >   grmonitor-0.53-2
> 
> The package says Christoph Lameter is the maintainer.
> Good luck to Igor, it looks like some work. I tried to compile it
> just now.

I did not see a reason to reupload the new version of the package (this was 
before libc6 conversion), so I just sent a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or 
whatever the address is).
 I tried building it, and, like you said it was not fun and I didn't have much 
time to mess with it at the time.  I will do my best this weekend however (or 
so I hope :) ).




-- 
Proudly running Debian Linux! Linux vs. Windows is a no-Win situation
Igor Grobman   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



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Checklist request (was: RFC: Deb 2.0 testing process)

[Brandon Mitchell]

[ the orig. message is avail at:
  http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-9711/msg01597.html ]

Hi everyone,
   I haven't heard many responses about the checklist, so I think it's
time to get started.  I'd like to do this in several phases:

I.   Get a few required packages for comments so everyone knows what's
 going on.
II.  Get all required packages.
III. Get all important packages.
IV.  Get all standard packages.
V.   Get all optional and extra packages.

Now, to start with I., I'd like to pick a few packages and ask the
maintainers to post what they think would be a good checklist for their
package.  There are no wrong answers, just what you think you and a tester
should do to verify your package is working correctly.  The idea being
"what works for a maintainer may not work on a testers system for some
reason or another".  What I'd like to try to get is a good balance between
simplicity and thoroughness.  For example, with the diff package:

Package: diff
 - cmp works on identical and different binary or text files
 - diff works on files, directories, normal or 2 column
 - sdiff correctly merges two files
 - diff3 correctly compares 3 files

Diff is probably one of the easier packages.  There weren't many programs,
and there isn't too much to test for each program (although I'd be
interested to see what changes the maintainer of this package will make).

At this time, I'd like to ask for the maintainers of the following
packages to post a list (I'm just trying to get several important
packages here): 

  adduser, diff, dpkg, grep, gzip, hostname, login, mount, passwd, tar.

Also, if anyone wants to go through the packaging manual, I'd like to
create some checklist for groups of packages.  E.g. a web server checklist.
Also a checklist that applies to all packages should be made (e.g. almost 
all files should be readable by everyone and in locations required by the
standard).  The first entry of a web server will then say it should pass
the general web server checklist.

Thanks,
Brandon

-
Brandon Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   "We all know linux is great... it
PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED]  does infinite loops in 5 seconds"
Phone: (757) 221-4847  --Linus Torvalds


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Re: windows nt and linux

[Ben Gertzfield]

> "Mandark!" == Mandark!  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Mandark!> and I want to install linux over ms-dos. BUT on the dos
Mandark!> partition there is a windows nt file which is VITAL and
Mandark!> contains the nt boot record (ms-dos mbr occupies the mbr
Mandark!> space) and if linux toasts it, my computer will cease to
Mandark!> work. is there a way to preserve this file when linux
Mandark!> reformats the partition? thanx...  -Matthew

I think if you tell the Debian installation process not to install
LILO, you'll be okay. I've been told that LILO 20 (the most recent
version in the unstable distribution of Debian) fixes this problem.

-- 
Brought to you by the letters W and N and the number 7.
"Bill Gates is a talented evil man." -- Chip Salzenberg
Ben Gertzfield  Finger me for my public
PGP key. I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet and YiffNet IRC as Che_Fox.


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Re: Where's the SCSI support in Debian?

[Adam P. Harris]

["Marcelo E. Magallon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>> at the time bo was released, the options for the kernel were 2.0.29
>> and 2.0.30. as 2.0.30 turned out to be unstable on some machines,
>> debian decided to use the 2.0.29 kernel. the only problem is :
>> buslogic flashpoint support started with 2.0.30 :-(

> Does that mean that Debian cann't be installed "easily" on a machine
> with a Buslogic FlashPoint PT and no IDE disks? 

There's already a bug on this:

#12747: 1997-08-01 Boot Disks lack FlashPoint SCSI Support
  Package: bootdisk; Reported by: Jeff Noxon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 85 days 
old. 

See the long discussion at http://www.debian.org/Bugs/db/12/12747.html

[...]

> Is this going to change soon... I mean, 2.0 is still months away,
> and it kind of scares me to think of many users facing "way till
> 2.0"

Yes, well, the rescue/boot/base sequence should use 2.0.32 anyhow.
While they're at it, they should _confirm_ that the PCMCIA subsystem
(pcmcia-cs pcmcia-modules) all work with the kernel from the rescue
disk etc. (Actually I'm going to test this right now with the 15 Oct
boot disks.)

I had _very_ difficult time getting debian installed on my laptop by
way of an NFS served CDROM on another linux box.  Good think I had
another linux box on which I could compile stuff.  I basically had to
roll my own kernel and pcmcia stuff.

I assume Maintainer Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is on this
list.

.A. P. [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.onShore.com/>


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Re: Where's the SCSI support in Debian?

[Lawrence]

> Does that mean that Debian cann't be installed "easily" on a machine with
> a Buslogic FlashPoint PT and no IDE disks? I'm going to buy a SCSI adapter
> to replace the old AHA-1542CF I have right now, and based on a
> recommendation on debian-user I'm going for the FlashPoint... and I think
> many people on that list may be influenced by that recommendation, too.
> 
> Is this going to change soon... I mean, 2.0 is still months away, and it
> kind of scares me to think of many users facing "way till 2.0"

I am using Buslogic MultiMaster BT958 UW scsi card and have no problem
installing Debian 1.3, I don't need to compile the kernel to install it,
though I did that because of the latest buslogic driver.

Lawrence


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windows nt and linux

[Mandark!]

hi. i have windows nt and msdos on my hard drive partitioned as such:

MS-DOS  |  Windows NT
500 MB|   3.1 GB

and I want to install linux over ms-dos. BUT on the dos partition there
is a windows nt file which is VITAL and contains the nt boot record
(ms-dos mbr occupies the mbr space)
and if linux toasts it, my computer will cease to work. is there a way
to preserve this file when linux reformats the partition? thanx...
-Matthew


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Re: BOY, DID I GET A WRONG NUMBER!

[Ben Pfaff]

Is there anything we can do about this luser sending the same annoying
message to debian-devel repeatedly?


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BOY, DID I GET A WRONG NUMBER!

[Joseph Schlesinger]

Hello!

For some inexplicable reason, I've been getting messages from you. 
Actually, I have received a HUGE bunch of messages both last Tuesday
(2 Dec) and today (9 Dec).  I don't consider myself very knowledgeable
about the technical aspect of e-mail or computer networking, which is
especially ironic, since it appears my name has been inserted as a BC
(blind carbon) on messages sent to the Debian Development mailing lists
& the ISS mailing lists.  I've also received unsolicited information about
software that will enable me to bulk e-mail 27 million U.S. households,
special offers on fresh citrus fruits from Florida, a consumer survey
from an exporter of sunglasses in China, & an invitation to visit some sort
of XXX adult web site -- well, I don't even want to get into that one! 
Obviously, this looks like the work of some prankster.

I've followed the proper procedures for getting "unsubscribed" from the
Debian & ISS lists, but apparently the list managers of those
organizations are unable to find me in their database.

I think I know how this might have started.  I'm in Chicago -- a
Northwestern University alum -- & I e-mailed to a qualified list of students
a message about my hobby.  (I'm a 20-year barbershop singer & wanted
to invite these individuals to one of our weekly chorus meetings.)  It's
possible that one of these students may have BC'ed me into some mailing
lists as some kind of joke -- I don't know.

In any event, if there's anything you want to know about barbershop
harmony, get in touch with me & I'll answer your questions.  If not, it's
been nice hearing from you, but I'd appreciate being removed from your
address book.  Thanks for your help.

Regards.

--Joseph Schlesinger
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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BOY, DID I GET A WRONG NUMBER!

[Joseph Schlesinger]

Hello!

For some inexplicable reason, I've been getting messages from you. 
Actually, I have received a HUGE bunch of messages both last Tuesday
(2 Dec) and today (9 Dec).  I don't consider myself very knowledgeable
about the technical aspect of e-mail or computer networking, which is
especially ironic, since it appears my name has been inserted as a BC
(blind carbon) on messages sent to the Debian Development mailing lists
& the ISS mailing lists.  I've also received unsolicited information about
software that will enable me to bulk e-mail 27 million U.S. households,
special offers on fresh citrus fruits from Florida, a consumer survey
from an exporter of sunglasses in China, & an invitation to visit some sort
of XXX adult web site -- well, I don't even want to get into that one! 
Obviously, this looks like the work of some prankster.

I've followed the proper procedures for getting "unsubscribed" from the
Debian & ISS lists, but apparently the list managers of those
organizations are unable to find me in their database.

I think I know how this might have started.  I'm in Chicago -- a
Northwestern University alum -- & I e-mailed to a qualified list of students
a message about my hobby.  (I'm a 20-year barbershop singer & wanted
to invite these individuals to one of our weekly chorus meetings.)  It's
possible that one of these students may have BC'ed me into some mailing
lists as some kind of joke -- I don't know.

In any event, if there's anything you want to know about barbershop
harmony, get in touch with me & I'll answer your questions.  If not, it's
been nice hearing from you, but I'd appreciate being removed from your
address book.  Thanks for your help.

Regards.

--Joseph Schlesinger
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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BOY, DID I GET A WRONG NUMBER!

[Joseph Schlesinger]

Hello!

For some inexplicable reason, I've been getting messages from you. 
Actually, I have received a HUGE bunch of messages both last Tuesday
(2 Dec) and today (9 Dec).  I don't consider myself very knowledgeable
about the technical aspect of e-mail or computer networking, which is
especially ironic, since it appears my name has been inserted as a BC
(blind carbon) on messages sent to the Debian Development mailing lists
& the ISS mailing lists.  I've also received unsolicited information about
software that will enable me to bulk e-mail 27 million U.S. households,
special offers on fresh citrus fruits from Florida, a consumer survey
from an exporter of sunglasses in China, & an invitation to visit some sort
of XXX adult web site -- well, I don't even want to get into that one! 
Obviously, this looks like the work of some prankster.

I've followed the proper procedures for getting "unsubscribed" from the
Debian & ISS lists, but apparently the list managers of those
organizations are unable to find me in their database.

I think I know how this might have started.  I'm in Chicago -- a
Northwestern University alum -- & I e-mailed to a qualified list of students
a message about my hobby.  (I'm a 20-year barbershop singer & wanted
to invite these individuals to one of our weekly chorus meetings.)  It's
possible that one of these students may have BC'ed me into some mailing
lists as some kind of joke -- I don't know.

In any event, if there's anything you want to know about barbershop
harmony, get in touch with me & I'll answer your questions.  If not, it's
been nice hearing from you, but I'd appreciate being removed from your
address book.  Thanks for your help.

Regards.

--Joseph Schlesinger
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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BOY, DID I GET A WRONG NUMBER!

[Joseph Schlesinger]

Hello!

For some inexplicable reason, I've been getting messages from you. 
Actually, I have received a HUGE bunch of messages both last Tuesday
(2 Dec) and today (9 Dec).  I don't consider myself very knowledgeable
about the technical aspect of e-mail or computer networking, which is
especially ironic, since it appears my name has been inserted as a BC
(blind carbon) on messages sent to the Debian Development mailing lists
& the ISS mailing lists.  I've also received unsolicited information about
software that will enable me to bulk e-mail 27 million U.S. households,
special offers on fresh citrus fruits from Florida, a consumer survey
from an exporter of sunglasses in China, & an invitation to visit some sort
of XXX adult web site -- well, I don't even want to get into that one! 
Obviously, this looks like the work of some prankster.

I've followed the proper procedures for getting "unsubscribed" from the
Debian & ISS lists, but apparently the list managers of those
organizations are unable to find me in their database.

I think I know how this might have started.  I'm in Chicago -- a
Northwestern University alum -- & I e-mailed to a qualified list of students
a message about my hobby.  (I'm a 20-year barbershop singer & wanted
to invite these individuals to one of our weekly chorus meetings.)  It's
possible that one of these students may have BC'ed me into some mailing
lists as some kind of joke -- I don't know.

In any event, if there's anything you want to know about barbershop
harmony, get in touch with me & I'll answer your questions.  If not, it's
been nice hearing from you, but I'd appreciate being removed from your
address book.  Thanks for your help.

Regards.

--Joseph Schlesinger
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[EMAIL PROTECTED] . 
Trouble?  e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .

BOY, DID I GET A WRONG NUMBER!

[Joseph Schlesinger]

Hello!

For some inexplicable reason, I've been getting messages from you. 
Actually, I have received a HUGE bunch of messages both last Tuesday
(2 Dec) and today (9 Dec).  I don't consider myself very knowledgeable
about the technical aspect of e-mail or computer networking, which is
especially ironic, since it appears my name has been inserted as a BC
(blind carbon) on messages sent to the Debian Development mailing lists
& the ISS mailing lists.  I've also received unsolicited information about
software that will enable me to bulk e-mail 27 million U.S. households,
special offers on fresh citrus fruits from Florida, a consumer survey
from an exporter of sunglasses in China, & an invitation to visit some sort
of XXX adult web site -- well, I don't even want to get into that one! 
Obviously, this looks like the work of some prankster.

I've followed the proper procedures for getting "unsubscribed" from the
Debian & ISS lists, but apparently the list managers of those
organizations are unable to find me in their database.

I think I know how this might have started.  I'm in Chicago -- a
Northwestern University alum -- & I e-mailed to a qualified list of students
a message about my hobby.  (I'm a 20-year barbershop singer & wanted
to invite these individuals to one of our weekly chorus meetings.)  It's
possible that one of these students may have BC'ed me into some mailing
lists as some kind of joke -- I don't know.

In any event, if there's anything you want to know about barbershop
harmony, get in touch with me & I'll answer your questions.  If not, it's
been nice hearing from you, but I'd appreciate being removed from your
address book.  Thanks for your help.

Regards.

--Joseph Schlesinger
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Bug log ordering

[Raul Miller]

Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Raul continues to suggest using a CGI program:

Er.. note that I'd also suggested using a proxy server.  I even
supplied code for such.

> We have more mirrors than places we can run CGI scripts.

Note that a proxy server can be run more places than a CGI script.

> The question then is whether (c) can be made to be acceptable.

I think there's an option (d), as well...

-- 
Raul


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Re: pentium specific packages

[Brandon Mitchell]

On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Adrian Bridgett wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 07, 1997 at 06:20:27PM -0600, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote:
>
> > it's the obvious way... create another architecture tree, binary-i586
> > (gosh, that going to hit hard on the mirror eventually. Time to get yet
> > another harddisk for the Debian mirror ;) It's just a minor (I hope)
> > modification to dpkg:
> 
> I agree with Andreas that symlinks are unnecessary. We really need a way of
> keeping the control file the same (apart from Architecture:) and telling
> dpkg to take packages from the binary-i586 directory if they exist.  I don't
> know the internals of dpkg/dselect/deity at all - how workable is this?

Adrian, could you respond to my follow up to Andreas's post:
http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-9712/msg00354.html

I feel I made myself a little clearer on the symlink idea in this post.
The problem with yours is that you are suggesting a fairly large overhaul
of dselect's ftp method (dpkg doesn't do the ftping), when it could be a
simple 1 line change from binary-i386 to binary-i586.  I admit the
symlink solution is ugly, but it requires the smallest development time
(considering the ammount of time we need to spend on libc6, this is a
good thing) and has the smallest effects on the end user (from the choices 
I've seen at least).  A good time to do this right will be with deity, but
that will be a while.  And the conversion from what I'm suggesting now to
a deity way will probably be painless, remove the symlinks, point deity to
binary-i586 first and have binary-i386 as the second choice.

Thanks,
Brandon

-
Brandon Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   "We all know linux is great... it
PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED]  does infinite loops in 5 seconds"
Phone: (757) 221-4847  --Linus Torvalds


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Re: Where's the SCSI support in Debian?

[Marcelo E. Magallon]

On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Andreas Jellinghaus wrote:

> at the time bo was released, the options for the kernel were 2.0.29 and
> 2.0.30. as 2.0.30 turned out to be unstable on some machines, debian
> decided to use the 2.0.29 kernel. the only problem is :
> buslogic flashpoint support started with 2.0.30 :-(

Does that mean that Debian cann't be installed "easily" on a machine with
a Buslogic FlashPoint PT and no IDE disks? I'm going to buy a SCSI adapter
to replace the old AHA-1542CF I have right now, and based on a
recommendation on debian-user I'm going for the FlashPoint... and I think
many people on that list may be influenced by that recommendation, too.

Is this going to change soon... I mean, 2.0 is still months away, and it
kind of scares me to think of many users facing "way till 2.0"


Marcelo


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Re: announcement lists

[Martin Schulze]

Adrian Bridgett writes:

> > I think it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] actually, but I'm not sure; I
> > only occasionally get mail to it -- all of it inappropriate
> > (everything I've gotten to xbase@<> in particular should have either
> > gone to debian-user or to [EMAIL PROTECTED], mostly the latter...)

Args, no! All wrong.

It's @packages.debian.org

> > Huh? the "package" addresses don't lead to email storing *anywhere* --
> > they just forward directly to the listed package maintainer.  If the

Correct.  It's meant for contacting the maintainer, not for submitting
bugs.

> > maintainer knows of an announce list, they can subscribe themselves
> > (or  if they wish to); often there isn't one, and the package
> > is only announced to c.o.l.a...
> 
> Oops - a bit of a "thinko" there :-)  However it would be nice to do this -
> if there is no maintainer, then the mail could be binned (as a new
> maintainer is quite likely to look for the latest version). IIRC, the
> maintainer for ophaned packaged _should_ be set to the debian-qa group, who
> could keep track of it.

Give me a file containing those packages and update it regularily on
master and the mailer at packages.debian.org will know about that.


Regards

Joey

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Re: Proxy server policy [was Re: gated]

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Adrian Bridgett wrote:

> > > We should have a standard place for these things - say:
> > > 
> > > /etc/proxies
> > > 
> > > http="http://www.proxy.company.com:80";
> > > ftp="ftp://ftpproxy.firewall.com";
> > > 
> > > How about making this policy. I realise that most upstream packages will 
> > > be
> > > harder to convert, but someone has to make a start. At least all debian
> > > originated packages can be made to use this. 
> > 
> > If you are going to do this then someone is going to have to decide on a
> > format for that file. There are many different kinds of proxies out there
> > :|
> 
> Hmm - I don't really know much about this - other than some ask for username
> and password. Do you know what sort of thing we should have to support the
> full range?

Well, http is pretty simple, it's either authenticated or unauthenticated
HTTP proxy protocol. There should be a way to specifiy for which hosts it
applies to.. You could also do HTTP over socks4/5 but that's a bit silly.

FTP is difficult, there is at least:
   ftp over http
   ftp over [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   ftp over site
   ftp over ?? [I forget this one]
   ftp over NAT (passive)
   ftp over socks4 and socks5

Many of those have authenticated versions as well and all should have a
way to specify which addresses apply.

Jason


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Why does gcc no longer link .sos with -lc by default?

[Michael Alan Dorman]

In building a couple of perl extensions for Debian the other day, I
noticed that the version on the axp produced a dependency on the
loader and libc.

When I moved the same source over to my i386, I was told that the
resulting shared object was statically linked.

After a bit of puttering around, I was able to get the following:

axp:

$ LD_RUN_PATH="" cc -v -o blib/arch/auto/MD5/MD5.so  -shared -L/usr/local/lib 
MD5.o md5c.o
Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/alpha-linux/2.7.2.1/specs
gcc version 2.7.2.1
 ld -m elf64alpha -G 8 -O1 -shared -o blib/arch/auto/MD5/MD5.so /usr/lib/crti.o 
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/alpha-linux/2.7.2.1/crtbegin.o -L/usr/local/lib 
-L/usr/lib/gcc-lib/alpha-linux/2.7.2.1 MD5.o md5c.o -lgcc -lc -lgcc 
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/alpha-linux/2.7.2.1/crtend.o /usr/lib/crtn.o

i386:

$ LD_RUN_PATH="" cc -v -o blib/arch/auto/MD5/MD5.so  -shared -L/usr/local/lib 
MD5.o md5c.o
Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/2.7.2.3/specs
gcc version 2.7.2.3
 ld -m elf_i386 -shared -o blib/arch/auto/MD5/MD5.so /usr/lib/crti.o 
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/2.7.2.3/crtbeginS.o -L/usr/local/lib 
-L/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/2.7.2.3 MD5.o md5c.o -lgcc -lgcc 
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/2.7.2.3/crtendS.o /usr/lib/crtn.o 

The difference seems to be that the gcc on the alpha is linking in
-lgcc -lc -lgcc, where gcc on the i386 is just doing -lgcc twice.

So which is right, and if it's the i386, since moving to gcc-2.7.2.3
isn't an option for the alphw, does anyone know enough about specs
files to be able to suggest what should be done about the alpha setup?

Mike.


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Re: Proxy server policy [was Re: gated]

[Adrian Bridgett]

On Sun, Dec 07, 1997 at 02:09:57PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Adrian Bridgett wrote:
> 
> > This is one area where Windows has got a far better solution that Unix. I'm
> > sure it's for technical regions, but I have at least ten different areas in
> > which I set proxy servers and I'm fed up with it. 
> > 
> > We should have a standard place for these things - say:
> > 
> > /etc/proxies
> > 
> > http="http://www.proxy.company.com:80";
> > ftp="ftp://ftpproxy.firewall.com";
> > 
> > How about making this policy. I realise that most upstream packages will be
> > harder to convert, but someone has to make a start. At least all debian
> > originated packages can be made to use this. 
> 
> If you are going to do this then someone is going to have to decide on a
> format for that file. There are many different kinds of proxies out there
> :|

Hmm - I don't really know much about this - other than some ask for username
and password. Do you know what sort of thing we should have to support the
full range?

Thanks

Adrian

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Re: pentium specific packages

[Adrian Bridgett]

On Sun, Dec 07, 1997 at 06:20:27PM -0600, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Brandon Mitchell wrote:
> 
> > How about a binary-pent directory with symlinks back to binary-i386 until
> > a package is uploaded.  Then we need to tell dselect(ftp) to get the
> > packages from binary-pent instead of binary-i386.
> 
> it's the obvious way... create another architecture tree, binary-i586
> (gosh, that going to hit hard on the mirror eventually. Time to get yet
> another harddisk for the Debian mirror ;) It's just a minor (I hope)
> modification to dpkg:

I agree with Andreas that symlinks are unnecessary. We really need a way of
keeping the control file the same (apart from Architecture:) and telling
dpkg to take packages from the binary-i586 directory if they exist.  I don't
know the internals of dpkg/dselect/deity at all - how workable is this?

> $ dpkg --print-architecture
> i386
> $ dpkg --print-gnu-build-architecture
> i486
> $ dpkg --print-installation-architecture
> i386
> 
> > Is there an easy way to do this?  (Also, if pentium clones also work
> > with the ecgs compiled packages, maybe i586 is better than pent.) 
> 
> I think it should be i586, although I'm not clear if ecgs supports Kx et
> al. It should... 

I don't think i486 is neccessary - does anyone else - AFAIK, there is no
compiler-time benefit worth obtaining.

Adrian

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Re: announcement lists

[Adrian Bridgett]

On Sun, Dec 07, 1997 at 01:49:38PM -0500, Mark W. Eichin wrote:
> > (@debian.org??) I'll raise something I thought about a while
> 
> I think it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] actually, but I'm not sure; I
> only occasionally get mail to it -- all of it inappropriate
> (everything I've gotten to xbase@<> in particular should have either
> gone to debian-user or to [EMAIL PROTECTED], mostly the latter...)
> 
> > a) subscribe @debian.org to the announcement lists (with a limit on
> > the number of emails to be stored).
> 
> Huh? the "package" addresses don't lead to email storing *anywhere* --
> they just forward directly to the listed package maintainer.  If the
> maintainer knows of an announce list, they can subscribe themselves
> (or  if they wish to); often there isn't one, and the package
> is only announced to c.o.l.a...

Oops - a bit of a "thinko" there :-)  However it would be nice to do this -
if there is no maintainer, then the mail could be binned (as a new
maintainer is quite likely to look for the latest version). IIRC, the
maintainer for ophaned packaged _should_ be set to the debian-qa group, who
could keep track of it.

> > b) be able to specify a URL which can be checked for changes - for instance:
> 
> If it's practical for the maintainer to use, the "watch" stuff that
> deb-make sets up already exists.  I haven't really had too much
> trouble finding out about new releases, though...

I use debhelper rather than debmake as I prefer it's "clean" design. I
really should look at some of the debhelper (or is it devscripts now) stuff.
It would be nice to have this "watch process" setup once for the package,
rather than each new maintainer going through the same rigmarole. I suppose
a short note in the README.Debian of each package would help though.

Adrian

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Debian Linux - www.debian.org
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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Stephen Zander]

Tyson Dowd wrote:
> As an aside, when munging reply-tos, if there is an existing reply to,
> why not set the From: to that address.
> 
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Becomes:
> 
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Reply-To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

This I like! (speaking as one who deliberately sets Reply-To to get around
a broken fire-wall over which I have no control)

Stephen
---
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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Turbo Fredriksson]

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Paul Seelig wrote:

> If there would be a port of dpkg to HPUX i would be very happy not
> having to learn to make packages with and using RPM! Anybody already
> working on such a beast?

As soon as my HP is using HP-UX again (soon I hope), I'll start (that is, if
no one is doing it already)...

---
 Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL!
 ^\\\/
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
 Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645
 S-415 10 Göteborg[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 SWEDEN www5.tripnet.se/~turbo
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Re: Porting DPKG!

[David Welton]

On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 10:22:54PM -0500, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:
> 
> We at Mindspring plan on using dpkg to manage the software on all of
> our server machines, if we can get it to do the job to our satisfaction
> (which I think we can.)  

For those of you in Europe, who may not be familiar with Mindspring,
it is a national level provider in the US with local access in 200+
cities.  According to their press release, their total earnings for
the 3rd quarter were $13,967,000, with aproximately 224000
subscribers.

I'm impressed:-))
-- 
David Welton  http://www.efn.org/~davidw 

Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org


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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Paul Seelig]

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Turbo Fredriksson wrote:

> Darn... He beat me to it with about a week... :) I was just about to do that
> (FreeBSD) port my self, but... Atleast he have not made a HP-UX port yet :D
> 
If there would be a port of dpkg to HPUX i would be very happy not
having to learn to make packages with and using RPM! Anybody already
working on such a beast?
Cheers, P. *8^)
--
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Re: predepends on libc6?

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,
>>"Ian" == Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Ian> Bdale asks:
>> In bug report 15091, Christian Meder suggests to me that I make
>> gzip predepend on libc6.  It is not clear to me that this is a good
>> thing to do.

Ian> Christian Meder is right.  Packages that are Essential (ie, ones
Ian> without which the packaging system breaks) should use Pre-Depends
Ian> for things that they absolutely must have to support the
Ian> packaging system.

Noted. I'll try to ensure that Deity is also cognizant of this
 rule.

manoj
-- 
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 Congress in Tripoli in October, 1989
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

This is truly grotesque ;-), but if this is done, I would
 withdraw my objections to reply-to munging, as the authors
 information is always preserved.

__
( reply-to == "debian-foo..." ? noop : 
(From == Sender || Sender == "") ? 
  Sender = from, from = reply-to, 
  reply-to = debain-foo :
x-old-sender = sender, sender = from, 
from = reply-to, reply-to = debain-foo )
__

I have no idea is this is feasible, though. (I think I can
 make sendmail do this, but the idea of total immersion into
 sendmail.cf makes me cringe). Is smartlist (or whatever we use) that
 flexible?

manoj
-- 
 Een schip op het strand is een baken in zee. [A ship on the beach is
 a lighthouse to the sea.] Dutch Proverb
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: ncftp and glimpse orphaned...

[Martin Mitchell]

Michael Alan Dorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I'm officially orphaning ncftp and glimpse, for a couple of reasons.

I shall take over maintenance of ncftp, unless anyone objects.

Martin.


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ncftp and glimpse orphaned...

[Michael Alan Dorman]

I'm officially orphaning ncftp and glimpse, for a couple of reasons.

The biggest is that I haven't used either in quite a long time---I'm
now an extraordinarily happy lftp user, and I long ago became fed up
with glimpse's sorry excuse for boolean searching and switched to (the
now free) swish.

The other reason is that neither is free software, and I'm coming to
find it much less interesting/rewarding to work on such packages.

Both have bugs filed on them, none showstoppers, just annoyances which
will probably never get fixed upstream (both projects have been pretty
stagnant of late).

I am, by the way, getting back into active maintainership after a bit
of an informal hiatus.  I hope to use the next few weeks to get new
versions of all my packages out, compiled for both alpha and i386.

Cheers,

Mike.


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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Turbo Fredriksson]

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Turbo Fredriksson wrote:
>
> > How about dirs in the distribution, like:
>
> - snipp -
>
> but those would
> have to be working really well for a long time before they could be
> integrated.

unstable/binary-* ?

---
 Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL!
 ^\\\/
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
 Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645
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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Todd Graham Lewis]

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Turbo Fredriksson wrote:

> How about dirs in the distribution, like: 
> 
> - s n i p p -
> binary-freebsd
> binary-solaris
> binary-hpux
> - s n i p p -

I think it would be a colossal mistake to try to integrate these os's
into normal debian, at least any time which is even remotely soon.  I
have thought about hosting "Debian GNU/Digital Unix", and other people
may want to host other debian-on-blah distributions, but those would
have to be working really well for a long time before they could be
integrated.  I'm not even sure if they ever should be integrated, but
fortunately that's not a big issue.

Back to work...

--
Todd Graham Lewis   Manager of Web Engineering(800) 719-4664, x2804
**Linux** MindSpring Enterprises  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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qmail: postinst needs to edit /etc/hosts.allow. Is that allowed ?

[Philip Hands]

Hi,

I need to add a couple of lines to /etc/hosts.allow in qmail, because 
otherwise qmail will not work under inetd.  I presume I'm not supposed to 
create packages that edit other packages conffiles, so how do I deal with this 
?

The lines I need to add are of the form:

  smtp: .YOUR.DOMAIN.: setenv RELAYCLIENT:twist { { /usr/bin/tcp-env  \
/usr/sbin/qmail-smtpd 1>&3;} 2>&1|splogger qmail;} 3>&1
  smtp: ALL:twist { { /usr/bin/tcp-env /usr/sbin/qmail-smtpd 1>&3;}   \
2>&1|splogger qmail;} 3>&1

[ that's 2 lines.  The backslashes and linefeeds were added for readability ]

With .YOUR.DOMAIN. being replaced with a spec for all the hosts that are 
allowed to relay mail through this host.

The `twist' weirdness is there to make sure that qmail's stderr gets logged, 
rather than being thrown at the SMTP connection.

Cheers, Phil.



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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Turbo Fredriksson]

On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:

> I've ported dpkg (dselect and everything) to Solaris, Digital Unix,
> and FreeBSD.

Darn... He beat me to it with about a week... :) I was just about to do that
(FreeBSD) port my self, but... Atleast he have not made a HP-UX port yet :D

How about dirs in the distribution, like: 

- s n i p p -
binary-freebsd
binary-solaris
binary-hpux
- s n i p p -

Wouldn't that be great? :) A native OS, but a Debian system... *yabba dabba do*

---
 Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL!
 ^\\\/
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
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 S-415 10 Göteborg[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 SWEDEN www5.tripnet.se/~turbo
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---



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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Todd Graham Lewis]

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Christian Meder wrote:

> where do the packages install ? /usr/local/ or /usr ?

I install files wherever the packages want me to install files.  That's
a package-build-time function, although the override feature in dpkg
works, presumably, I haven't tried it.

> Perhaps it's time to begin filing bug reports on this issue ?

I'll try to file the makefile issue today; thanks for the suggestion.

--
Todd Graham Lewis   Manager of Web Engineering(800) 719-4664, x2804
**Linux** MindSpring Enterprises  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Remco Blaakmeer]

On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I've ported dpkg (dselect and everything) to Solaris, Digital Unix,
> and FreeBSD.  Basically, the programs themselves run, and if I override
> dependencies, etc., then I can install stuff.  I've made a number of
> packages for each of the platforms, mostly gnu stuff.

Great!

> The problem is that I don't really understand the bootstrap process.
> How is everything in /{usr,var}/lib/dpkg/ created by the boot floppies?
> What is the division of labor?  Does dpkg create it, or is there an
> installation script, or is the job split all over the place?
> 
> I could just go ahead and hack up something to create methods, available,
> status, etc., but I'd like to reuse whatever already exists, for obvious
> reasons.  If someone could expound on the setup process which happens
> on the boot floppies, and maybe include some pointers to the relevant
> source files, then I'd be most appreciative.

You could get the 'base system' tar file that comes with the boot floppies
and take a look at it. This contains the whole basic system that is used
at install time.

Remco


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Re: question about prep.ai.mit.edu -> ftp.gnu.org (fwd)

[Alex Goncharov]

>   Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
>   X-Envelope-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Date: Tue, 9 Dec 97 14:08 GMT
>   From: Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Resent-From: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
>   X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/12182
>   X-Loop: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
>   Precedence: list
>   Resent-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Content-Type: text
>   Content-Length: 1104
>   
>   > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:55:14 -0700
>   > From: Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   > Subject: Re: question about prep.ai.mit.edu -> ftp.gnu.org
>   > 
>   > Simple question: Is "ftp.gnu.org" definitely the new preferred name 
> for
>   > "prep.ai.mit.edu"?
>   > 
>   > Yes.
>   > 
>   > Thanks.
>   
>   However,
>   chiark:~> host -C gnu.org
>   NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU does not exist (Authoritative answer)
>   gnu.org has lame delegation to NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
>   gnu.org NS  LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU
>   Nameserver LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU not responding
>   gnu.org SOA record not found at LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU, try again
>   chiark:~> host -t ns gnu.org
>   gnu.org NS  NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
>!!! gnu.org NS host NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU does not exist
>   gnu.org has lame delegation to NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
>   gnu.org NS  LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU
>   chiark:~>
>   
>   Can someone (Santiago?) who can actually mail RMS tell him to get his
>   DNS fixed ?
>   
>   Ian.
>   
>   


It seems to be working:

$ host ftp.gnu.org
18.159.0.42 -- AENEAS.MIT.EDU 



ftp ftp.gnu.org
Connected to ftp.gnu.org.
220 aeneas FTP server (Version wu-2.4(3) Mon Jun 5 16:40:22 EDT 1995) ready.
Name (ftp.gnu.org:algo): anonymous
331 Guest login ok, send your complete e-mail address as password.
Password:
230-Welcome, archive user!
230-
230-If you have problems downloading and are seeing "Access denied" or
230-"Permission denied", please make sure that you started your FTP client in
230-a directory to which you have write permission.
230-
230-If you have any problems with the GNU software or its downloading, please
230-refer your questions to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.  If you have any other 
230-unusual problems, please report them to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
230-
230-If you do have problems, please try using a dash (-) as the first character
230-of your password -- this will turn off the continuation messages that may
230-be confusing your FTP client.
230-
230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
ftp> 




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Re: question about prep.ai.mit.edu -> ftp.gnu.org (fwd)

[Ian Jackson]

> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:55:14 -0700
> From: Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: question about prep.ai.mit.edu -> ftp.gnu.org
> 
> Simple question: Is "ftp.gnu.org" definitely the new preferred name for
> "prep.ai.mit.edu"?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Thanks.

However,
chiark:~> host -C gnu.org
NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU does not exist (Authoritative answer)
gnu.org has lame delegation to NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
gnu.org NS  LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU
Nameserver LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU not responding
gnu.org SOA record not found at LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU, try again
chiark:~> host -t ns gnu.org
gnu.org NS  NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
 !!! gnu.org NS host NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU does not exist
gnu.org has lame delegation to NS1.GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
gnu.org NS  LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU
chiark:~>

Can someone (Santiago?) who can actually mail RMS tell him to get his
DNS fixed ?

Ian.


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predepends on libc6?

[Ian Jackson]

Bdale asks:
> In bug report 15091, Christian Meder suggests to me that I make gzip
> predepend on libc6.  It is not clear to me that this is a good thing
> to do.

Christian Meder is right.  Packages that are Essential (ie, ones
without which the packaging system breaks) should use Pre-Depends for
things that they absolutely must have to support the packaging system.

Ian.


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Call for volunteers to host bug mirrors

[Ian Jackson]

Synopsis: I'd like several people to come forward, willing to run
mirrors of the bug system run like the one on chiark, rather than the
ones on www.debian.org et al.  It has better technology for updating
the indices and things.

The volunteers will need to commit to:
 * Hosting a publicly-announced WWW mirror of the bug system
   (a relatively small number of hits).
 * Currently 100Mb of disk space.  You'll have to allow more.
 * Willingness to install a couple of special mail aliases,
   and a run couple of special scripts and programs.
 * Ability to handle large (tens of Mb) incoming mail about once
   a week, and smaller messages (1Kb up to tens of Kb) once
   every half hour.
 * Intending not to drop out immediately.

Sue Campbell:
> Ian Jackson wrote:
> > Several people have said that they've had problems mirroring the bug
> > system because it's such a lot of small files, which is true.
> 
> It was reported that the problem was due to directories with large
> numbers of files in them, not simply the existence of large numbers
> of files to be mirrored.

Ah.  As it happens, the WWW mirror now no longer has more than 100
files in most directories.  Unfortunately there's still one directory
with all the packages' indices, and that has 2000 files in it.  The
directory with package maintainers' indices has about 500 files.

The solution with the email updates is preferable, though, because it
allows incremental updates to the indices.  Instead of having to fetch
the 1.4Mb full index file each time there is any change it sends an ed
script.

Ian.


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Re: Bug log ordering

[Ian Jackson]

I suppose I really ought to bring this up again, so we can finish the
issue.  *sigh*.

Raul continues to suggest using a CGI program:
> The cgi script wouldn't have to run on the same system.  It's
> a pretty simple script (see below), just change input mechanism
> from <> to something based on use CGI;

Yes, it is simple.  But, regardless of whether you run the CGI script
on the same system you still concentrate the load and points of
failure.  We have more mirrors than places we can run CGI scripts.
Hopefully we'll eventually have a Debian package (in Extra) that
maintains a local bug mirror.

The current arrangement with the CGI script for going straight to a
bug by number or a package already has lower availability than reports
themselves.

I think that we really have only the following 3 options:
 (a) Leave things as they are.
 (b) Reverse the order into forwards-chronological.
 (c) Supply both sets of pages.

If we have to choose from (a) and (b) I think I'm convinced that we'll
have to go for (b), so no more flameage about that please.

The question then is whether (c) can be made to be acceptable.  Do we
need a complete set of indexes with links to the reversed pages, or
two hyperlinks to each bug on each index ?  Or can we just put a link
at the top of the forward version into the reversed one ?  Is the
extra data storage a problem ?

Ian.


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RE: rinetd question

[Michael Meskes]

Correct. But that's not the same. So I guess I keep using redir.

Michael

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> -Original Message-
> From: Gergely Madarasz [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 2:18 PM
> To:   Michael Meskes
> Cc:   Debian Development
> Subject:  Re: rinetd question
> 
> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Michael Meskes wrote:
> 
> > Does it provide any access control methods? I'm currently running
> redir via
> > inetd and can use tcpd to protect access. Can I do something similar
> with
> > rinetd?
> 
> You can probably use it in combination with ipfwadm entries. Deny all
> incoming packets to the ports you want to redirect, except from ip's
> you
> want to allow. 
> 
> --
> Madarasz Gergely   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
>   Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
>   HuLUG: http://www.cab.u-szeged.hu/local/linux/


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Re: rinetd question

[Gergely Madarasz]

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Michael Meskes wrote:

> Does it provide any access control methods? I'm currently running redir via
> inetd and can use tcpd to protect access. Can I do something similar with
> rinetd?

You can probably use it in combination with ipfwadm entries. Deny all
incoming packets to the ports you want to redirect, except from ip's you
want to allow. 

--
Madarasz Gergely   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
  Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
  HuLUG: http://www.cab.u-szeged.hu/local/linux/


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All these postinst-Questions

[Christian Kauhaus]

Hi!

After having Debian installed on a number of machines here at our
university, I begin to wonder if there is any possibility to run an
unattended installation. Maybe someone knows the net-installation of
Solaris. You just drop the configuration in a file, provide some
config-files (e.g. passwd), start the installation process and after one
hour, everything is finished. This one doesn't work with dpkg, because you
don't know in which order the postinst's ask their questions. Has anyone an
idea how to put all these decisions into a database and feed dpkg with this
without writing a very long and error-prune expect-script? I'm just talking
on the basic config here. For advanced issues I have to use some advanced
tools like cfengine, but for now I need something which enables me to run a
basically unattended installation.

  Christian

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net-acct

[Michael Meskes]

I plan to upload a new (libc6) version of this package. Since Bernd isn't
answering email right now I think the best is I enter my name as maintainer.

Michael

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RE: libc5

[Michael Meskes]

Here are some of the changes HJ made that I think are important enough
for us to create a new version:

   * nls/msgcat.c (catopen): Check if the message file is
   really a file.
   * libio/stdio/ferror.c (_IO_ferror):
   * libio/stdio/putc.c (_IO_putc): New aliase for glibc
   compatibility.
   * libio/printf_fp.c (__printf_fp): Round number to even
   according to IEEE 754-1985 4.1.
   * locale/cur_max.c: new for glibc compatibility.
   *  (struct ip): change ip_csum to ip_sum.
   * rpc/openchild.c:
   * rpc/key_call.c:
   * rpc/auth_des.c: fix some problems with secure rpc.
   * : new.
   * libio/genops.c:
   * libio/strops.c:
   * libio/libioP.h:
   * libio/fileops.c: update from glibc 2.

Michael

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> -Original Message-
> From: David Engel [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 4:48 PM
> To:   Michael Meskes
> Cc:   debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> Subject:  Re: libc5
> 
> On Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 03:51:26PM +0100, Michael Meskes wrote:
> > Good point David. That is all your point are good. But stopping
> libc5
> > work means we have to convert all packages before the next release.
> IMO
> > this should even hold for non-free or contrib packages. I doubt we
> are
> > able to do that, so I prefer to have a libc5 version that is as
> > compatible with libc6 as it gets.
> 
> What areas of compatibility are being worked on?  I sure hope they
> have to do with binary compatibility because there is no benefit to
> adding source compatibility.
> 
> David
> -- 
> David EngelODS Networks
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   1001 E. Arapaho Road
> (972) 234-6400 Richardson, TX  75081


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How to detach debug symbols from libraries

[Fabrizio Polacco]

Hi folks!

I remember someone suggesting to tetach debugging symbols from libraries
to package them separately on a -dbg binary package.

* What is the way to do that?
* How can a detached symbol table be used to debug a program?
* Can such table be used both for shared and static libs or should I
  build 2 tables (or only the static one)?


Thank you for your help,
Fabrizio
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How to build a C++ library?

[Fabrizio Polacco]

Hello C++ folks!

I need a little help in building a C++ library.

I'm building a set of library packages that include C and C++ static and
shared libs.
The original makefile builds the C++ ones linking the full set of C and
C++ object files.
The C++ packages will depend anyway from the C shared runtime package,
so I was wandering if I could build the C++ shared lib using _only_ the
C++ objects.

Would this be a "good" or a "bad" thing?
In case, how can I force an internal dependance on the shared C lib?

If you want to give a glance to a pre-release version of the packages,
you'll find them in ftp://ftp.icenet.fi/private/fpolacco/temp/db2


Thank you,
Fabrizio
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How to package a JAVA library?

[Fabrizio Polacco]

Hello Java folks!

My absolute ignorance of java is causing me trouble.
I'm building a set of library packages that includes a java shared
library.

After a failed try with guavac (but I don't giveup), I succeded in
MAKEing the shared lib using javac.
The make stage creates a lot of '.class' files and a lib_java.so object.

Now the trouble:
* What files should be put in the java binary package?
* Where those files should be located? (/usr/lib, /usr/include ?)
* Should I make a pair of packages (runtime + develop)?
* What is the naming convention for java packages?

Thank you for the help,
Fabrizio
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Re: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 09:43:44AM +0100, Michael Meskes wrote:
> Okay I'll do that and name it 2.01-8.2. Also I found the problem with my
> first upload. It had a distribution entry "stable unstable" which is
> absolutely wrong (shouldn't use cut and paste without checking first).
> This package must not go into stable.
> 
> As for the closing of the bugs, wasn't that just a proposal? Right now I
> let release close the bugs. Too much work to do it all by hand.

Hmmm. How do you get release to close the bugs? I thought Guy's
message, which says if your upload fixes a bug you may close it now,
meant you should wait until you receive Guy's message, then close them.
I always close by hand with mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Hamish
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RE: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06

[Michael Meskes]

Okay I'll do that and name it 2.01-8.2. Also I found the problem with my
first upload. It had a distribution entry "stable unstable" which is
absolutely wrong (shouldn't use cut and paste without checking first).
This package must not go into stable.

As for the closing of the bugs, wasn't that just a proposal? Right now I
let release close the bugs. Too much work to do it all by hand.

Michael

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> -Original Message-
> From: Hamish Moffatt [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 9:27 AM
> To:   Michael Meskes
> Subject:  Re: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06
> 
> On Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 08:51:38AM +0100, Michael Meskes wrote:
> > Now that's a problem. I did the same. I also did fix all open bugs
> in
> > lshell. A few minutes ago I tried to see which version is on master
> and
> > found none in incoming, none in REJECT and no new one in hamm. What
> > happened? What do we do? I'm willing to re-upload. That's not a
> problem.
> 
> I noticed the same after my upload. I recommend you reupload;
> I grabbed the old package from my local mirror, saw no bugs
> outstanding (seemingly because you had already fixed them),
> and uploaded mine. Since yours actually fixes the bugs
> you'd best upload it again. However, bugs should not be closed
> until the installed message is receive from Guy's scripts?
> 
> 
> 
> Hamish
> 
> -- 
> Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> http://hamish.home.ml.org
> 
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rinetd question

[Michael Meskes]

Does it provide any access control methods? I'm currently running redir via
inetd and can use tcpd to protect access. Can I do something similar with
rinetd?

Michael

-- 
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Elm not working (followup)

[Andrew Martin Adrian Cater \[Andy\]]

I solved my problem: I'd also upgraded smail and the new version
wasn't prodding my ISP.  I needed to reconfigure Smail using
the smailconfig --force option.  The default method of starting
from inetd didn't work for me: I now have a smail daemon running
and it works perfectly.  Hope this helps anyone else.

Regards to all,

Andy


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Re: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 08:51:38AM +0100, Michael Meskes wrote:
> Now that's a problem. I did the same. I also did fix all open bugs in
> lshell. A few minutes ago I tried to see which version is on master and
> found none in incoming, none in REJECT and no new one in hamm. What
> happened? What do we do? I'm willing to re-upload. That's not a problem.

I noticed the same after my upload. I recommend you reupload;
I grabbed the old package from my local mirror, saw no bugs
outstanding (seemingly because you had already fixed them),
and uploaded mine. Since yours actually fixes the bugs
you'd best upload it again. However, bugs should not be closed
until the installed message is receive from Guy's scripts?



Hamish

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Re: Porting DPKG!

[Christian Meder]

On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 10:22:54PM -0500, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I've ported dpkg (dselect and everything) to Solaris, Digital Unix,
> and FreeBSD.  Basically, the programs themselves run, and if I override
> dependencies, etc., then I can install stuff.  I've made a number of
> packages for each of the platforms, mostly gnu stuff.

Great !!
where do the packages install ? /usr/local/ or /usr ?

> 
> I'm planning on writing a complete report when I'm done, so I'll skip
> most of the details now.  The port was really easy; the biggest issue
> so far is that a lot of the make files in blah/debian/rules presume
> that /bin/sh is bash, which really screws all sorts of shit up on these
> three platforms.  Anyway, things are going well.

Perhaps it's time to begin filing bug reports on this issue ?

> We at Mindspring plan on using dpkg to manage the software on all of
> our server machines, if we can get it to do the job to our satisfaction
> (which I think we can.)  I plan on feeding everything back to the project,
> of course, and like I said, I plan on writing and publishing a report on
> the project when I'm done.  Is anyone else interested in such a project?
> Would progress reports to the devel group be appreciated?

Certainly :-)

Greetings,

Christian
-- 
Christian Meder, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
What's the railroad to me ?
I never go to see
Where it ends.
It fills a few hollows,
And makes banks for the swallows, 
It sets the sand a-blowing,
And the blackberries a-growing.
  (Henry David Thoreau)
 


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Re: Package Category tool demo

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On 9 Dec 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> It's in /debian/debian/project/experimental/pkgtool.tar.gz . You can download
> it and try it. Extract the tar file, change directory into pkgtool/, and run
> ./pkgtool . Check boxes, and it will tell you what dpkg commands it would

The program appears to be called pkgsel ;>

> execute to select those package categories. It won't actually run them,
> because that would mess up your selections.

I think it's a fairly good idea, it should simplify some of the process of
getting debian working!

Now we need to agree on what to put in all the sections :>

Jason
Studying Digital Electronics..


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RE: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06

[Michael Meskes]

Now that's a problem. I did the same. I also did fix all open bugs in
lshell. A few minutes ago I tried to see which version is on master and
found none in incoming, none in REJECT and no new one in hamm. What
happened? What do we do? I'm willing to re-upload. That's not a problem.

Michael

--
Dr. Michael Meskes, Project-Manager| topsystem Systemhaus GmbH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]| Europark A2, Adenauerstr. 20
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | 52146 Wuerselen
Go SF49ers! Go Rhein Fire! | Tel: (+49) 2405/4670-44
Use Debian GNU/Linux!  | Fax: (+49) 2405/4670-10

> -Original Message-
> From: Hamish Moffatt [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 3:16 AM
> To:   Richard Braakman
> Subject:  Re: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06
> 
> > Heiko Schlittermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >   lshell-2.01-8(extra)
> 
> Just sent in a non-maintainer of this.
> 


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Package Category tool demo

[bruce]

A package category tool gives you a list of broad categories of packages
like "Development" and "Web Server" and asks you to select among them. 
It's meant to keep the naive' user from having to deal with dselect.

I wrote a package category tool demo in about an hour, to demonstrate how
simple it is and to give people an idea of the concept. It works. Something
like this (though not necessarily this implementation) will be in Debian 2.0 .

It's in /debian/debian/project/experimental/pkgtool.tar.gz . You can download
it and try it. Extract the tar file, change directory into pkgtool/, and run
./pkgtool . Check boxes, and it will tell you what dpkg commands it would
execute to select those package categories. It won't actually run them,
because that would mess up your selections.

Categories were generated this way:

dpkg --get-selections>my_backed_up_selections
sed -e 's/  install/deinstall/' clear_all
dpkg --set-selections < clear_all
dselect select
# Select the "Networking" packages here, and resolve their dependencies.
dpkg --get-selections>Networking

Now, if you go "dpkg --set-selections < Networking", it will select that
category. Obviously, you have to make your categories have no conflicting
packages.

I figured out how to de-select a category, but the demo won't do that.

Thanks

Bruce


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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Carl Mummert]

On Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 01:05:19PM +1100, Tyson Dowd wrote:
cm >> Kai> If you can't get your mailer to reply to From: when you want to,
cm >> Kai> complain to it's programmer - it's broken.

cm >>   I thought that is the author sets reply-to, then that should
cm >>  be used for replies, and not from. I can reply to from: unless there
cm >>  is a reply-to, when that takes precedence. If people munge reply-to,
cm >>  I'll never knoe, will I?

the rfc says that reply-to will be the address chosen automatically if the
mua decides where to reply to.  However, the rfc is very clear in stating
that you should be able to send mail to any address in the header at
your discretion (that you can choose to send replies to From or Sender
instead.   Errors go to Sender anyway, ignoring reply-to) 
sec 4.4.4


cm >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cm >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cm >
cm >Becomes:
cm >
cm >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cm >Reply-To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
cm >

Assuming no Sender line, or Sender = From,  I beleive that the following 
mapping is compliant with the standard:

>From -> Sender  (Sender is omitted if 
it is the same as From, 
but it's not, anymore)
Reply-To -> From (So From, as the rfc wants, shows the
 which machine the message came from)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

In other words, 

( reply-to == "debain-foo..." ? noop : 
(From == Sender || Sender == "") ? 
  Sender = from, from = reply-to, 
  reply-to = debain-foo :
x-old-sender = sender, sender = from, 
from = reply-to, reply-to = debain-foo )


Now, the questions are,  Can we do this? and Do we want to do this?


Carl Mummert

--
One must imagine Sysiphus happy.


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Porting DPKG!

[Todd Graham Lewis]

Hello!

I've ported dpkg (dselect and everything) to Solaris, Digital Unix,
and FreeBSD.  Basically, the programs themselves run, and if I override
dependencies, etc., then I can install stuff.  I've made a number of
packages for each of the platforms, mostly gnu stuff.

I'm planning on writing a complete report when I'm done, so I'll skip
most of the details now.  The port was really easy; the biggest issue
so far is that a lot of the make files in blah/debian/rules presume
that /bin/sh is bash, which really screws all sorts of shit up on these
three platforms.  Anyway, things are going well.

The next step is for me to bootstrap a machine using dpkg.  I've got a
AlphaStation500 set aside for the purpose, complete with a clean Digital
Unix installation.  I'm creating "dummy" packages for the base packages
(libc, man, login, sysvinit, etc.) which are already installed on the
system as part of the DU installation.  These will have no real files
associated with them, but will allow other, real packages to be installed,
and for dependency calculations to procede with a minimum of fuss.

The problem is that I don't really understand the bootstrap process.
How is everything in /{usr,var}/lib/dpkg/ created by the boot floppies?
What is the division of labor?  Does dpkg create it, or is there an
installation script, or is the job split all over the place?

I could just go ahead and hack up something to create methods, available,
status, etc., but I'd like to reuse whatever already exists, for obvious
reasons.  If someone could expound on the setup process which happens
on the boot floppies, and maybe include some pointers to the relevant
source files, then I'd be most appreciative.

We at Mindspring plan on using dpkg to manage the software on all of
our server machines, if we can get it to do the job to our satisfaction
(which I think we can.)  I plan on feeding everything back to the project,
of course, and like I said, I plan on writing and publishing a report on
the project when I'm done.  Is anyone else interested in such a project?
Would progress reports to the devel group be appreciated?

--
Todd Graham Lewis   Manager of Web Engineering(800) 719-4664, x2804
**Linux** MindSpring Enterprises  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Libc6 progress: 1997-12-06

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 09:50:59PM +0100, Richard Braakman wrote:
> There are now 143 packages in the list, with upgrades on the way for 6
> more.  Progress seems to have stalled on this front.  Perhaps the
> remaining packages are truly uninteresting :-)

It could be that, but also there are some
big ones here, and perhaps nobody wants to tackle
a big package they don't really know.

Old source format in particular is a lot of work.

> Heiko Schlittermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   lshell-2.01-8(extra)

Just sent in a non-maintainer of this.

>   wml-1.3.1-1

Sounds big from the description.

>   dbf2mysql-1.10b-0

There is a -2 in contrib/misc as well. Both libc5.
This is a bug, perhaps against ftp.debian.org?

> Igor Grobman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   grmonitor-0.53-2

The package says Christoph Lameter is the maintainer.
Good luck to Igor, it looks like some work. I tried to compile it
just now.

> Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   xarclock-1.0-3

Interesting program this. Just uploaded 1.0-3.1 (libc6).

> Steve McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   pacman-10-4

Compiled ok with libc6, but segfaults on execution.

> Fabien Ninoles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   vrweb-1.3-1

Rather huge. Another day perhaps..

> Chris Fearnley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   dome-4.60-1

Compiled fine but appears to segfault on execution.

> John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   whirlgif-2.01-2

Just uploaded -2.1.

hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5
CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Tyson Dowd]

On 08-Dec-1997, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> >>"Kai" == Kai Henningsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> Kai> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Manoj Srivastava) wrote on 06.12.97 in
> Kai> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> If I set a reply-to address for the list manually, then having it
> >> munged is not just being less pleasing, it is *broken*
> >> behaviour. Why should we break perfectly standard mail processing
> >> because some mailers are broken out there?
> 
> Kai> No such thing. It is pretty clear to me (after the discussion on
> Kai> DRUMS) that there currently is no "perfectly standard" Reply-To:
> Kai> processing; the header is used in too many incompatible ways.
> 
>   Umm, can it be that there is no "perfectly standard" Reply-To:
>  processing simply because too many lists stomped right over the RFC
>  822's first two examples of reply-to usage (namely, for the author to
>  send mail elsewhare)? I'll re-read the RFC's in question (because of
>  my disk crash, I have lost my mirror), but I have yet to read
>  anything to convince me to break reply-to's by munging them.

Reply-To:s are already broken because there are no promises in RFC 822,
merely suggestions about how you might use them. You claim the first two
suggestions are more important than the last one (which approximates
reply-to munging for the lists).

> 
> Kai> There are _no_ universally accepted, useful conventions for
> Kai> Reply-To:. Sad but true. 822 was too imprecise in it's
> Kai> definition, plus current mailing lists were unknown back then.
> 
>   From the quote on this mailing list, I think 822 was precise
>  enough; but I am no expert.

I'm not an expert either, but since we can both point to it and say it
proves our point it seems quite inadequate! Since Kai seems to have
some expertise in this area, I'm prepared to trust his judgement.

> 
> Kai> If you can't get your mailer to reply to From: when you want to,
> Kai> complain to it's programmer - it's broken.
> 
>   I thought that is the author sets reply-to, then that should
>  be used for replies, and not from. I can reply to from: unless there
>  is a reply-to, when that takes precedence. If people munge reply-to,
>  I'll never knoe, will I?
> 

As an aside, when munging reply-tos, if there is an existing reply to,
why not set the From: to that address.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Becomes:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

Surely this would address most of the concerns. Or am I missing
something here (surely this has been thought of before).

-- 
   Tyson Dowd   # 
# Linux versus Windows is a 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]#Win lose situation.
http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~trd #


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Re: predepends on libc6?

[James Troup]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kai Henningsen) writes:

[ Deleted the part where the doubters once again fail to bother to
yprove that ldconfig isn't necessary (Hint: the onus isn't on me; I
don't care anymore, I *know* the policy manual is wrong, if you think
otherwise, do something about it, either way I'm not going to waste
more time discussing it) ]

> > [dpkg does ordering on configuration and removal, not install]
> 
> Aah. Now _this_ is a good (and probably sufficient) point.

[Just out of curiosity, why do you believe me about that? No, never
mind, forget I asked]

> From this, I'd say that everything needed by dpkg -i MUST pre-depend
> on any other package that it needs for that functionality used by
> dpkg -i.

I don't think so.  Once gzip Pre-Depends on libc6, it shouldn't be
possible for dpkg to get into a mess because it's unable to fork
programs again.  The packages you mention below are all essential,
dpkg can validly assume they'll be installed.  And because of their
Pre-Depends gzip, tar and fileutils won't ever be in an unpacked but
unusable state.  I think the same applies to ldso too.

(If someone's forced the removal of an essential package all bets are
off, so the only valid issue here is upgrading, as far as I can see)

> By the way, shouldn't Pre-Depends: only be used for Essential: yes
> packages?

No; I think there are valid uses of Pre-Depends for non-essential
packages.

> I see Pre-Depends: without Essential: in the following packages:
> libc5, libc6, libreadline2

You can't make shared library packages essential (Policy 2.3.7).
(libreadline2 being Essential would have made the upgrade to
libreadlineg2... interesting)

Actually libreadline2's Pre-Depends may well be bogus, certainly when
I added it, it was for the wrong reasons (I was confused as to what
was responsible for ensuring {/usr,}/lib/libc5-compat was in
/etc/ld.so.conf), maybe Guy has another reason for keeping it; I'm not
sure.  Guy?
 
> perl

The version I can see (5.004.04-2) has only a Depends.  Perl-base is
Essential and it's Pre-Depends are definitely a good thing, for, I
hope, obvious reasons.

> netstd, elvis-tiny

I'm not sure why elvis-tiny has Pre-Depends, I'm not convinced it
should.  I don't know enough about netstd to know if it's Pre-Depends
is valid.  One other package that certainly shouldn't have Pre-Depends
but does is e2compr.

-- 
James


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Re: Question about cron behaviour (was Re: Bug#15258: cron shouts...)

[Joey Hess]

Steve Greenland wrote:
> (I posted this on debian-policy, and got zero-response (maybe because
> the original Subject: looked like an bug system acknowledgement :-().
> I would still like others to comment on this issue -- basically
> introducing arbitrary differences from the upstream version.)
  
I didn't reply becuase I agreed with you. On second thought, it might be
possible to make it an option (defaulting to the old behavior). Then you
only have to worry about feature-bloat..

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: BS in rxvt+ncurses

[Philip Hands]

> Well,  from a sheer visual standpoint,  seeing an arrow pointing to the
> left,  like on the BS key (<--),  makes one think that pushing that
> button's going to move the cursor that way,  just like the other arrow
> keys.  I've NEVER understood the funky behavior of the BS key on *nix.

I think we are talking at cross purposes here.

As far as I know, nobody is suggesting that the <--- key should do anything 
other than delete the character to the left of the cursor, when pressed.

The point under discussion is about whether the character generated in order
to obtain this result should be ASCII BS (0x08) or ASCII DEL (0x7f).

It is intended that whichever is chosen, that the stty setting should cause 
that character to do the delete-to-the-left action, regardless.

It is also intended that this default should be reversible by a local admin.

If you have a system that causes the character under the cursor to disappear 
when <--- is pressed, then your system is either mis-configured and should 
have the stty setting set to match you keyboard mapping, or you are using some 
broken software that is ignoring the stty setting.

Cheers, Phil.



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Question about cron behaviour (was Re: Bug#15258: cron shouts...)

[Steve Greenland]

(I posted this on debian-policy, and got zero-response (maybe because
the original Subject: looked like an bug system acknowledgement :-().
I would still like others to comment on this issue -- basically
introducing arbitrary differences from the upstream version.)
 
On 29-Nov-1997 12:52:45, Santiago Vila Doncel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sometime, Steve Greenland closed this bug with the comment:
> > On 25-Nov-1997 19:02:24, Santiago Vila Doncel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Package: cron
> > > Version: 3.0pl1-39.1
> > > Severity: wishlist
> > > 
> > > My /var/log/syslog contains entries like this:
> > > 
> > > Oct 14 17:00:00 cantor /USR/SBIN/CRON[200]: [...]
> > > 
> > > Could it be changed to simply "[...] /usr/bin/cron[pid] [...]"?
> > 
> > While I agree that it's ugly, it's a deliberate choice by Paul Vixie. When
> > cron forks to perform a command, it transforms argv[0] to uppercase, so that
> > the new process is easily distinguishable in ps listings, logs, etc. Because
> > it's a deliberate decision (as shown by comments in the code), I'm not going
> > to change it.
> > 
> > Aesthetically, of course, you're right...
> 
> It may be a deliberate choice by Paul Vixie, but Unix is case sensitive,
> and /USR/BIN/CRON is definitely *not* the program that is being executed,
> so the line is *wrong*.
> 
> Since the program is free, we should be able to change it if we want.

Of course we can change it. However, I'm against introducing arbitrary
differences into the upstream sources. I can imagine log-analyzer
programs looking for both /usr/bin/cron and /USR/BIN/CRON, and I don't
want to break those by changing the name. Unlikely? Yeah, probably, but
the potential is there, and I don't think there is any real benefit to
the change.

> I think this is a bug, and we should fix it.

The original author's intention and reasoning are clear. I don't think
anybody is really likely to go looking for a file named /USR/BIN/CRON.

> I'm reopening it.

I don't want to get into an close-reopen war, but I also have no
intention of changing this unless everybody (ok, vast majority) thinks
I'm wrong.

Steve

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New package: dpbox

[csmall]

G'day All,
  After the slap on the wrist for tnt before, I'm sending an email out to
let you know what I am working on now.

The package is call dpbox, it is going in the hamradio distribution and is
about the only GPLed hamradio BBS currently available.

It requires tnt (which is why it was released first) and you can think of
tnt as the client with dpbox as the server.

The package is missing the crawler program (its a little indexing thingy)
due to the copyright problems with it.  The rest of the package is GPL.

  - Craig

(here you go james and manoj, no large knives required!)


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Re: crontab

[Steve Greenland]

On 07-Dec-1997 01:39:39, Miquel van Smoorenburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Re: crontab -l outputs extra header] 
> Especially since that line is usually used in the prerm script, so
> an upgrade won't help.. It might be worth it to locate all the packages
> that do this, and file a bug report against them. You should mention that
> tail +4 is dangerous since the behaviour of crontab -l might change , and
> recommend something like:
> 
> crontab -l | sed -e '/^#.*\(DO NOT EDIT\|Cron version\|installed on\).*$/d'
> 
> instead. Then wait for Debian 2.2 or so, so you can be reasonably sure
> everybody has upgraded all those packages at least once and release
> a new cron..

Howzabout this:

I mod 'crontab -l' so that it doesn't output the extra header iff
CRONTAB_NOHEADER is defined. People can modify their scripts to

CRONTAB_NOHEADER=Y crontab -l

Later, I'll make the new behaviour the default. The advantage is
that we get read of the sed call immediately, and people can set
CRONTAB_NOHEADER in their login scripts and get the new behaviour.

None of this will happen until after jan 1, as I'm trying to get a libc6
release of cern-httpd out before I go on vacation...

steve

-- 
Steve Greenland


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Re: BS in rxvt+ncurses

[Will Lowe]

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Philip Hands wrote:

> BTW I'd be interested to hear any justification of why <--- == DEL

Well,  from a sheer visual standpoint,  seeing an arrow pointing to the
left,  like on the BS key (<--),  makes one think that pushing that
button's going to move the cursor that way,  just like the other arrow
keys.  I've NEVER understood the funky behavior of the BS key on *nix.

Will


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|   http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/   |
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|The problem with computers: |
||
|  rivendell[501] [~]> love me   |
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|  rivendell[502] [~]> hug me|
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Re: BS in rxvt+ncurses

[Philip Hands]

>   I agree, but if feel the opposite <--- == BS should be default
> because most linux users come from the dos world, and the keys on a linux
> terminal/xterm should act the same as in dos.  Emacs users know more about
> unix and therfore should know how to change stty erase

Um, how does a normal user find out what the <--- key is generating on a well 
set up system?

As long as the character to the left of the cursor disapears, they are unlikely 
to know or care what is actually being generated by the keypress.

BTW I'd be interested to hear any justification of why <--- == DEL makes life 
difficult for internationalisation.  If this is a reality, it might be the 
first bit of weighty justification for the BS setting.

Cheers, Phil.


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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Gonzalo A. Diethelm]

On Dec  4, 1997, at 23:55, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
 >  Personally, I still think that reply-to is a bad solution; we
 >  are just pandering to broken software (decent software, like gnus,
 >  allows on to set mailing list parameters [look for to-address] such
 >  that group replies go only to the list). Or else one can just delete
 >  additional addresses.

OK, how do I make everybody else use gnus so I will not get their
duplicate copies?

 >  If I choose to send a message to a person personally, I do not
 >  want Debian to hijack that message.

On articles/replies sent to the list, do you more often reply directly
to the author or to the whole list? I would think the latter.

 >  Why do we have a policy about CC's? I like CC's; they generally
 >  propagate to me faster. Where is this policy stated? (I just looked
 >  into debian-policy, and /usr/doc/debian/mailing-list.txt, with no
 >  success). If indeed there is such a policy, it has been hidden quite
 >  successfully. (I certainly don't remember this being ratified).

I don't know if the policy exists or not, but what would be the
purpose of CC'ing somebody if you were sure the message is going to
the list? Even more, wouldn't you want the message to go ONLY to the
list, so that nobody would get duplicates?

 >  The people with sad mail software and lazy fingers are
 >  penalizing the people with low bandwidth. Don't break conforming
 >  software to cater to broken software.

This is somewhat comparable to "unwilling spam": somebody is
(unwillingly) FORCING me to receive multiple copies of their
messages. As in real spam, there is nothing I can actually do to stop
them from doing it; but I could use a feature as adding a Reply-To
header to alleviate the problem.

 >  manoj

-- 
Gonzalo Diethelm # Windows 95: n. 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally 
 =Debian Linux=  # coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit 
 www.debian.org  # company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition.


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