Re: Non-interactive install proposal
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Why can't you ask all the questions first? I am too thnking of the kernel image package. I can easily design a framework that gathers all the data a priori -- and yes, you have a point; Andreas because the questions depend on the state of the system which might be Andreas different before installation than when the postinst is actually Andreas executed. I may then need to ask extra questions in a what if manner. All it takes is a little bit of thought while creating the questions. And the databse so generated can be truly machine independent, and be used to replicate machines in a compute farm. Two ver worthy birds with one stone. This might be the way to go, but as it puts additional burden on the package maintainers. Providing configuration data before starting the install has obviously the advantage of minimizing the time a package is non-functional (i.e. unconfigured, or not working in the intended way), compared to providing the data afterwards. If the user wants to change the decisions made before installation (i.e. after finishing package selection and before starting installation) after he has finished it, it would be nice if he could do it the same way. The query script should be run, answers stored in a database, and then postinst configure be run again. Even better if this would somehow integrate with using linuxconf/coas/whatever. [...] Andreas I'd like to integrate more of the bookkeeping tasks into the Andreas debian system, like being able to display a list of Andreas warnings/errors after installation is finished, and a list Andreas of packages that still have to be user-configured. I want to eliminate that list. I'm not sure how you want to do that. Some packages show notices of the form look into file xyz after installation. With user-configured I didn't mean the configured state of dpkg. After installing a package like samba, debian provides a do-nothing configuration (or a configuration that does something, but often not what the user wants, which is the case with autofs). One could provide a smb.conf before starting the installation (which certainly could be an option for experts or when installing a compute farm), but - programs like linuxconf/coas don't work that way - sometimes the user wants to try out/correct/try again - sometimes it's better to have all the documentation at hand before going through the configuration of a package - sometimes a package includes helper programs that aid in configuration. Some network perl library package offers to verify host names when they are entered. My conclusion is that it's often desirable to first install the packages (including the debian-configuration, which should guaranty a sane state) and then user-configure them to make them really work the intended way (and perhaps climb a learning curve while doing that). The package installer could maintain a list of the packages to be user-configured, maybe associated with some configuration program. I agree about important notices; however, that is fairly simple to implement; and there is not much of an design issue there. Ok, some time ago I made a proposal to put a severity prefix in front of each output line (or maybe before a block of lines?), and to automatically tag unprefixed lines, depending on if they come through stdout or stderr (which means letting dpkg redirect the script output and installing a filter), and to automatically capture the output of the installation run somewhere. Anyone having a better proposal? (I'm not sure there are no design issues here) Andreas how do you deal with existing versus new config files during an Andreas upgrade (or how would you like to deal with it)? Hmm. Asking ahead of time may not be a satisfactory solution unless one can compare the two sets of config files. Gack. Well, rather than dpkg asking a bland question, we need the package maintainer provide a text lsiting changes in the conf file, and use that to prompt a user whether they want the new file? It's a better aproach than the current one, but sometimes it's neither the old (modified) one or the new one, but the old one with some or all of the modification the maintainer made to the provided conf file. We can't probably default to the old file (the new version of the code might not be backwards compatible); or the new version (the package may not be useable without changes). that seems to be the core problem. Ifg we want to make non interactive installs a reality, we have to put in work to support it -- and that means creating a change text for each conffile. Lintian can check whether the developr has provided the change text; it can even be in changelog format, so dpkg can extract the changes since a particular version of the conffile. So, if the conffile has changed, dpkg looks to see the
Re: Consesus on Linuxconf?
Shaya Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --This might mean that Linuxconf will error out if it can't parse the file, if you've made private changes to it. That's the tradeoff, you take a risk that you won't be able to use linuxconf if you privately edit the file. We will work to improve the parser though to minimize that risk. This will be the case with any interactive config-program build on top of existing configuration languages (even the samba configuration language is complex enough for this to be true). I wouldn't say that, last year when I was playing with linuxconf, I took my debian sendmail setup, and the first time I ran linuxconf, linuxconf parsed it perfectly. I didn't have a complex setup, so it doesn't prove much, cept that linuxconf can parse things that it hasn't created. No, i meant you can't prevent the parser to error out on some edited config files, not that it will happen with every edited config file. [...] most configuration files can be complex; take a look at the files in your /etc. How many simple and how many potentially complex files did you find? well, I don't have a debian system running right now here in .il, blush as I only came for the year, though as I'm returning to the states in a week, I'll have my debian box[s] up and running soon after, especially with those nice multiple OC-3s at work. big smile was a rhetoric question :-)), IMHO most of them are potentially complex. Additional points I would consider important: - how difficult is it to write a module for linuxconf for some package; can some scripting language be used? Writing simple modules shouldn't be too difficult right now, if you know C++ better if writing simple modules was simple ;-) [...] - how well does linuxconf scale (what if i have 50 configuration modules?) hehe, I don't think their have been any tests, as there aren't that many modules yet, so I can't answer, if we come to that point, it shouldn't be too difficult to subdivide the modules, though even without it, you'd probably just have to scroll threw a longer list to find what you want to configure. maybe there are other issues too like load time, especially when started in batch mode. [...] - on which platforms could it run or made to work? (administrating a bunch of machines with the same tool would be a plus; i think it's one goal of coas) What do you mean? right now linuxconf includes some of the modules in the linuxconf core code, and not as modules, the author is working on seperating them all out, I hope to get just a linuxconf-base. with linuxconf-[modules]. It seems to be pretty flexible, has remote managment, remote control from one linuxconf server to multiple clients I meant if it can be easily ported to other os's. Maybe sometime in the future it becomes important. These are general questions relating to any such program. Perhaps it would be a good idea to discuss the interfaces to packages. If one could standardize that (how to put additional information into sysv-initscripts, and which information, or the module api, etc.), perhaps we could get less dependent on a specific program like linuxconf. Well, for Linuxconf it's pretty standard right now, there's a document on Linuxconf's web site, that was written up for Red Hat, though it confused me a little as their were no examples. haven't looked there for some time. My point was, will we get really clean interfaces/api's? In the long run the api might be more important than the program implementing it. A related question is, will it integrate well with the debian way of doing things (whatever that is, but we are discussing some configuration issues in another thread, and some things seem to be related). [...] I'll package linuxconf up soon after I get back to the states. great :-) ciao Andreas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Consesus on Linuxconf?
Andreas Degert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, i meant you can't prevent the parser to error out on some edited config files, not that it will happen with every edited config file. config files which are broken should be treated as error conditions. For example, if you put this email message into your /etc/hosts that would be a broken config file. [Unless you fixed it by turning all these new illegal lines into comments.] -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mirror-2.9 released, and hopefully DFSG compliant
Bob Perhaps you could persuade the author to add support for restarts Bob on partially downloaded files, and any other desirable patches that Bob are not included in 2.9. I haven't had time to check the documentation. This might be implemented in 2.9. I'd be grateful if you could test and confirm/deny. Cheers, Dirk -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] According to the latest official figures, http://rosebud.ml.org/~edd 43% of all statistics are totally worthless. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Re-organization proposals (was: Re: so what?)
On 3 Jun 1998, Manoj Srivastava wrote: snip b) we neeed to release more often, and on schedule (I like guys proposal of an updated stable pool that can be tested continuuls, frozen, and released fast -- since there are never any release critical bugs in the stable pool, the current delay does not occur) snip I'm that guy, or at least I think I recognize this as a paraphrase of something I suggested. Thanks for the comment. I think such a plan would be a considerable improvement over current practice. I'm a bit disappointed that the suggestion seems to have been passed by without very much discussion (not that the debian project needs a lot of debian-devel bandwidth and developer energy devoted to discussing such things right now -- it seems to me that some of the current debian-devel discussion threads ought to be postponed until after hamm is out as a stable release, and/or moved to debian-policy or somesuch). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Re-organization proposals (was: Re: so what?)
On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 02:31:19PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: b) we neeed to release more often, and on schedule (I like guys proposal of an updated stable pool that can be tested continuuls, frozen, and released fast -- since there are never any release critical bugs in the stable pool, the current delay does not occur) FWIW, I'm working on a proposal for this at the moment. I should have a first draft to mail to people for preliminary comments by tonight or tomorrow night, and hopefully a proper proposal to make by the end of the weekend or sometime mid next week. Basically, I think we've come close enough to agreement on this matter that it's worth spending time fleshing out some of the ideas rather than just making them up. Oh, and unless there are some technical objections, I'd like to see PAM added as a goal for slink, or the release after, btw. Cheers, aj -- Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/ I don't speak for anyone save myself. PGP encrypted mail preferred. ``It's not a vision, or a fear. It's just a thought.'' pgpJlug5yiwer.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Consesus on Linuxconf?
Andreas Degert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: please don't answer too quickly; if you think about it a second (in the context of the thread) you will realize that I wrote about syntactically and semantically correct config files that are too complex for the parser. That shouldn't matter for context free grammars. If the grammar isn't context free you're dealing with something like unrestricted perl, not a config file. For, samba, a config file overwriting some global setting indirectly with the line include = /etc/smb.conf.%m occurring later in the config file (%m expands into the client machine name) is already tough for the parser (and the ui displaying the data). You mean a non-global override of a global default? For a UI you need an area for defaults, and you need to be able to enter specifics (specific file system areas, specific printers). Under a specific file system entry you need to be able to represent the defaults and you need to be able to represent overriding them. Frankly, this looks like a simple case. PS: If you really succeed in writing such a parser correctly, it should be easy to additionally make it ask me in such a case if I want to start a new samba configuration from scratch and where I want it to save my misplaced email :-)) I'm not working on any parsers at the moment, but I've written parsers in the past. Samba's conf file is much less complicated than, say, c. Samba's conf file is so simply I believe you can represent all syntactically valid conf files with a regular expression. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intent to package inorwegian, norwegian words for ispell. (and a bit about wnorwegian)
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: all that's left is the copyright document As for the norwegian wordlist wnorwegian, I've been unable to produce a copyright, seems that this just evolved on the net. In at least some countries simple lists of words are not copyrightable. I'm not sure what the status is on that as far as international law and the Berne convention. greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Project: COPYRIGHT HOWTO.
On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:25:12PM +0200, Jens Ritter wrote: Hallo all, as a lot of us developers have to deal with copyright problems, I would like to start this (hopefully) littly project. This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to write a COPYRIGHT HOWTO, which might be send to authors of software, which a) do not state what copyright is associated with their software and b) who do not use a free (enough) license. What should be in there: 1. A discussion what is necessary to constitute a Copyright and License for a program (Do you have to state copyright in every file, is a COPYRIGHT file in the top directory enough, is a Copyright line in an LSM file enough, etc.). This all sounds good...and as being associated with debian I understand your focus on free software licenses, and I definitly myself feel that free software licences are far superior. I think what needs to be included is also info about non-free licences. It would be good to see a nice guide...what needs to be spelled out explicitly in a licence? what is assumed true as long as nothing explicitly states otherwise? etc Information on both free and non-free licences is important...it should be usefull for everyone. It woul dbe nice to see some example licences and what they mean, and espcially their pitfalls (like for instance some peopel find they don't like the GPL cuz its not free enough for them) _4._ Big disclaimer, as we are not lawyers. :-) This is of course good...and probably necissary (I have often wondered if such disclaimers are really needed or just the result of peoples misguided paranoia) I think it woul dbe nice to write it and then find a way to have a copyright lawyer who is willing to help out read it over and give it aquick check for the validity of its statements. I think it is important to stress a licence which is carefully worded such that it allows and dissalows what the author wishes to do so with, and also is not complete overkill (for instance I think the GPL is a good example of overkill) Also I think Public Domain should be mentioned...and what it means to place something in the public domain (my understanding is that that means a person who writes a piece of software explicitly gives up all rights to it which a copyright would give them) -Steve -- ** Stephen Carpenter ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Maturity is often more absurd than youth and very frequently is most unjust to youth -- Thomas Edison pgpGvOGGOReP9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Debian and LSB
Hi fellows, I just read on LWN the short story about Bruce's Linux Standard Base. Both Caldera and Redhat have a guy in it. Debian isn't even mentioned. Shouldn't we have somebody in the commitee? What do you think about? Federico -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Consesus on Linuxconf?
Andreas Degert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is not the point; of course just the parsing, the syntactical portion, is rather easy. Else, how should a program like samba parse it's config files? Even if it's a complex embedded language, by definition its syntax can be parsed, and if it's for a program you even have the source for it. The problem lies in understanding the semantics from the users point of view, so that it can be presented to the user in a reasonable form. This is what the parser of a configuration program has to achieve. Hmm.. what you're talking about here is a logical grouping mechanism which can bleed over into adjacent areas. The logical grouping mechanism is supportable (but you can't nest such groups). I'm not so sure that it's a good idea to support the bleeding aspect, but that can also be supported by explicitly representing the sequence of clumps of entries. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: kernel v2.0.34 has been released
On Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 10:18:32AM +0100, Enrique Zanardi wrote: kernel v2.0.34 has appeared at the usual FTP sites. (Sure you knew that, didn't you?). Is it too late in the frozen stage to include it in hamm? It fixes a lot of problems and it had been given a hard testing time on linux-kernel. I'm runnng a pre release for a while now and I'm doing a lot of different things, never encountered a problem. Nils -- *-* | Quotes from the net: L Linus Torvalds, W Winfried Truemper | | Lthis is the special easter release of linux, more mundanely called 1.3.84 | | WUmh, oh. What do you mean by special easter release?. Will it quit | * Wworking today and rise on easter? * pgpeyL3LSKxhc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: On adding size info to Packages files [very long]
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Brederlow == Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brederlow I mean, that when a package is installed, that the Brederlow recorded du tree (which is needed to calculate the size Brederlow increase/decrease for updates) could be trimmed to what Brederlow the users system reflects. The users system setup should Brederlow be scanned and kept in a status file for speed reasons Brederlow (trying all dirs for symlinks takes time) and then Brederlow trimming should be fairly easy and save a lot of space. It Brederlow would save the more the smaler (less partitions) the Brederlow system is. You have a point. Hmm. The sizes file I haegv been talking about is analogous to the Packages/available file; we also need the analogue of the Status file, and it may make sense to coalesce the data down in the Sizes.installed file. However, that would make the handling of newly created partitions impossible (I created /usr/lib when my /usr partition was in danger of running out of space). Once coalesced down, there is no easy way of recreating the data; and since the installed Sizes file is of the order of 100k compressed, and the savings are unlikly to be more than 30-40k, I still think we should not discard data. Correct operation is worth more than 40k ;-) In case you changed something, you have to run the symlink check again. When you update a Package it will from now on trimm the tree to the correct dirs. The calculation of space needed/gained for an update would then be wrong once. Since the data is only 100K, lets keep it all. May the Source be with you. Mrvn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Non-interactive install proposal
Andreas Degert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Andreas I'd like to integrate more of the bookkeeping tasks into the Andreas debian system, like being able to display a list of Andreas warnings/errors after installation is finished, and a list Andreas of packages that still have to be user-configured. I want to eliminate that list. I'm not sure how you want to do that. Some packages show notices of the form look into file xyz after installation. Which should in no way stop the installation, but should pop up in the installation report (as a summary of what packages want to tell you) or a simple logfile of what have been done. May the Source be with you. Mrvn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
intent to package irquery
i intend to package irquery on www.ddns.org which is a client for their dynamic dns service. err they already had an rpm :) -- Robert S. Edmonds - Debian developerhttp://www.debian.org Freshmeat staff member http://freshmeat.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] / http://www.smart1.net/edmonds - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dpkg stops after 20 errors (was Re: library missing in 2.0.6)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Nils Rennebarth wrote: I will be out of town from Friday evening to Sunday. I'll hereby announce the intention to make a non-maintainer upload of qftp, recompiled with libstd++2.8 and of dpkg where nothing is changed except the paths in the disk and to upload these either until Friday 13:00 (GMT) or Sunday 23:00 (GMT) to incoming on master. Objections, propositions anyone? I would like you also to fix bug #22940: dpkg stops after just 20 errors. I have not heard a word about it from Ian Jackson (or Klee Dienes). What do people[*] think about this bug? It is a bug? Should it (not) be fixed? [*] Specially, people who have tried to upgrade via dselect by following the libc5-libc6-mini-HOWTO. Thanks. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBNXaSViqK7IlOjMLFAQGXAgP7Baq85IZnfgSzEUgFpliNOKibJWKcm7Y3 3YkhAC7YVAXqV4zkuuE/PyIN1OJvkNmAQ4brhw+/knr9T+GD3lNAja4PAQSEYOGT 5CpcwGYsjdFdg3p2ZklrXadlgI6oe/h3lQqMbrV9DBAqGdKmsFLc5vy2vH2+QMeN 2A8UWTVIqzs= =x1Sq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Project: COPYRIGHT HOWTO. -Reply
The idea of having a copyright lawyer look it over once it is written sound excellent. I work for a large law firm that has a copyright and IP practice group, an I am sure that (since I work in the OS dept. and they all LOVE me :-]) that I could talk one of the lawyers in that group into loking over it real quick-like once it is finished. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/03/98 11:59pm On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:25:12PM +0200, Jens Ritter wrote: Hallo all, as a lot of us developers have to deal with copyright problems, I would like to start this (hopefully) littly project. This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to write a COPYRIGHT HOWTO, which might be send to authors of software, which a) do not state what copyright is associated with their software and b) who do not use a free (enough) license. What should be in there: 1. A discussion what is necessary to constitute a Copyright and License for a program (Do you have to state copyright in every file, is a COPYRIGHT file in the top directory enough, is a Copyright line in an LSM file enough, etc.). This all sounds good...and as being associated with debian I understand your focus on free software licenses, and I definitly myself feel that free software licences are far superior. I think what needs to be included is also info about non-free licences. It would be good to see a nice guide...what needs to be spelled out explicitly in a licence? what is assumed true as long as nothing explicitly states otherwise? etc Information on both free and non-free licences is important...it should be usefull for everyone. It woul dbe nice to see some example licences and what they mean, and espcially their pitfalls (like for instance some peopel find they don't like the GPL cuz its not free enough for them) _4._ Big disclaimer, as we are not lawyers. :-) This is of course good...and probably necissary (I have often wondered if such disclaimers are really needed or just the result of peoples misguided paranoia) I think it woul dbe nice to write it and then find a way to have a copyright lawyer who is willing to help out read it over and give it aquick check for the validity of its statements. I think it is important to stress a licence which is carefully worded such that it allows and dissalows what the author wishes to do so with, and also is not complete overkill (for instance I think the GPL is a good example of overkill) Also I think Public Domain should be mentioned...and what it means to place something in the public domain (my understanding is that that means a person who writes a piece of software explicitly gives up all rights to it which a copyright would give them) -Steve -- ** Stephen Carpenter ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Maturity is often more absurd than youth and very frequently is most unjust to youth -- Thomas Edison -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Project: COPYRIGHT HOWTO. -Reply -Reply
Er...make that IS dept (they have VERY different meanings :-]) Gregory Dickinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/04/98 08:16am The idea of having a copyright lawyer look it over once it is written sound excellent. I work for a large law firm that has a copyright and IP practice group, an I am sure that (since I work in the OS dept. and they all LOVE me :-]) that I could talk one of the lawyers in that group into loking over it real quick-like once it is finished. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/03/98 11:59pm On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:25:12PM +0200, Jens Ritter wrote: Hallo all, as a lot of us developers have to deal with copyright problems, I would like to start this (hopefully) littly project. This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to write a COPYRIGHT HOWTO, which might be send to authors of software, which a) do not state what copyright is associated with their software and b) who do not use a free (enough) license. What should be in there: 1. A discussion what is necessary to constitute a Copyright and License for a program (Do you have to state copyright in every file, is a COPYRIGHT file in the top directory enough, is a Copyright line in an LSM file enough, etc.). This all sounds good...and as being associated with debian I understand your focus on free software licenses, and I definitly myself feel that free software licences are far superior. I think what needs to be included is also info about non-free licences. It would be good to see a nice guide...what needs to be spelled out explicitly in a licence? what is assumed true as long as nothing explicitly states otherwise? etc Information on both free and non-free licences is important...it should be usefull for everyone. It woul dbe nice to see some example licences and what they mean, and espcially their pitfalls (like for instance some peopel find they don't like the GPL cuz its not free enough for them) _4._ Big disclaimer, as we are not lawyers. :-) This is of course good...and probably necissary (I have often wondered if such disclaimers are really needed or just the result of peoples misguided paranoia) I think it woul dbe nice to write it and then find a way to have a copyright lawyer who is willing to help out read it over and give it aquick check for the validity of its statements. I think it is important to stress a licence which is carefully worded such that it allows and dissalows what the author wishes to do so with, and also is not complete overkill (for instance I think the GPL is a good example of overkill) Also I think Public Domain should be mentioned...and what it means to place something in the public domain (my understanding is that that means a person who writes a piece of software explicitly gives up all rights to it which a copyright would give them) -Steve -- ** Stephen Carpenter ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Maturity is often more absurd than youth and very frequently is most unjust to youth -- Thomas Edison -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and LSB
On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read on LWN the short story about Bruce's Linux Standard Base. Both Caldera and Redhat have a guy in it. Debian isn't even mentioned. Shouldn't we have somebody in the commitee? What do you think about? We are aware of the effort and are monitoring and taking part in it. We haven't decided if we can formally endorse it yet or not. -- Scott K. Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gate.net/~storm/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Getting Hamm out
While perusing around reading e-mail and jumping in on ocasional discussions I noticed some mention of the possibility of cutting down on some of the less importnat discussions an dhelping get hamm out... I remember there was a list a while back of Critical Bugs that were holding up hamm... what is the status of that? has that report been run again? I would like to see the latest version of that list. I don't know how much of a help I can be (my life is crazy lately) but I would be willing to take a look and see if there is anything I can help fix I supose I can just jump in and look at the bug tracking system on the web page hmm one of these nights I hafta see if I can get some time to myself (not easy as my girlfriend just moved in with me and my fammily while we are looking for an apartment together) and see if I can't spend more than 1-2 hours on my own computer. (hmm mental note...need to make her an sudoer for using pppd tonight -- hopefully ill read e-mail when I get home tonight, see that and do it) -Steve -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Non-interactive install proposal
Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dpkg should start one thread to extract a package, when a package is done a second threat is signaled and the next is extracted. The second thread configures the package. If any question is to be asked, the controll is given to a third threat and the next package is configured. The third thread pops up the question. Some issues: (1) dpkg already sucks up a lot of memory which can really bog down a system (2) this doesn't work very well with apt (which also implies that there are subtle system integrity issues to worry about). (3) there's a real problem where you currently must ask questions in the order they're presented, rather than some order which makes sense. (4) there's a real problem where it's clumsy to fix typing mistakes. These aren't always isolated. For example, more than once I've shot past several questions because I thought I hadn't struck the enter key properly, but really some aspect of the interactive task was paged out temporarily. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Packages Removed from Hamm (!)
Hmmm... You're a little behind the times here. hwtools 21288 hwtools: irqtune should be in /usr/sbin, or rc.boot script fixed [34] (Siggy Brentrup [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Uhh, remove that package, and dozens of my machines go down or perform very slowly. Please don't. Bug has been downgraded to normal. lynx 22165 lynx: [Michal Zalewski lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;] Lynx's 2.8 buffer overflow [15] (Christian Hudon [EMAIL PROTECTED]) I depend on this one, and I don't think the bug is a big concern. Bug has been fixed. (I meant to remove lynx before I sent the report.) On a side note, I see a lot of messages in there about package foo not DFSG-compliant. Why should you delete them? Why not just arbitrarily move them into non-free instead? This will fix the problem with a whole lot less hassle. This has already been done. Brian ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) --- If you have a 50% chance of guessing right, you'll guess wrong 75% of the time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Project: COPYRIGHT HOWTO. -Reply
On 04-Jun-98 Gregory Dickinson wrote: The idea of having a copyright lawyer look it over once it is written sound excellent. I work for a large law firm that has a copyright and IP practice group, an I am sure that (since I work in the OS dept. and they all LOVE me :-]) that I could talk one of the lawyers in that group into loking over it real quick-like once it is finished. While this thread is running, it occurs to me to ask: Has the GPL ever been tested in a court case? If so, what was[were] the outcome[s]? Best wishes to all, Ted. E-Mail: (Ted Harding) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 04-Jun-98 Time: 17:07:37 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IRC Forum
Previously Nils Lohner wrote: An open IRC Forum has been planned to present an opportunity to discuss unification of software packaging/management and installation systems. Does anyone have logs for this? Since it was at 05:00 local time for me I couldn't attend. Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpUzxurE4e2l.pgp Description: PGP signature
comp usa rebates?
I'm trying to create tar files less than 100Mb to fit on zip disks (by the way, my rebate arrived last week, only a year and a half a class action suit late). The above comment reminds me. Has anyone besides me bought some memory from comp-usa within the last 6 months and is STILL waiting for their rebates? I bought some 64mb worth or dram under several different rebate programs and have still not heard from the bastards. Is there grounds for a class action here? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Consesus on Linuxconf?
On 4 Jun 1998, Andreas Degert wrote: If you look at config files like .emacs or /etc/profile where it's apparent that they use a structured language, it's much more clear that a configuration program can't grok each possible config file the user can write with an editor. It's also not uncommon to see config files which just contain perl code. (Majordomo comes to mind) . Probably python programs do this too. John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: comp usa rebates?
I too bought 64 MB of ram from Comp-USA, and also am still waiting for a rebate. Russ Russell Cook, Engineering Branch WSR-88D Operational Support Facility (405)366-6520 x4237 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org; debian-devel@lists.debian.org Subject: comp usa rebates? Date: Thursday, June 04, 1998 12:53 PM I'm trying to create tar files less than 100Mb to fit on zip disks (by the way, my rebate arrived last week, only a year and a half a class action suit late). The above comment reminds me. Has anyone besides me bought some memory from comp-usa within the last 6 months and is STILL waiting for their rebates? I bought some 64mb worth or dram under several different rebate programs and have still not heard from the bastards. Is there grounds for a class action here? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Consesus on Linuxconf?
Previously G John Lapeyre wrote: It's also not uncommon to see config files which just contain perl code. (Majordomo comes to mind) . Probably python programs do this too. But nobody said all conffiles should be managed by linuxconfig (or any configuration system for that matter). A lot of those conffiles are marked as conffiles to guard them from unexpected changes. For example: most files in /etc/init.d are marked as conffiles. But only a couple of them actually contain configuration-info. Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgp1LVkBhhJEO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: comp usa rebates?
I will save the names and addresses of all who reply for possible preparation of a legal response (maybe Janet Reno's office). Russ Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/04/98 02:24:50 PM To: Kenneth Scharf/PD/CoulterUS, debian-user@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org cc: Subject: Re: comp usa rebates? I too bought 64 MB of ram from Comp-USA, and also am still waiting for a rebate. Russ Russell Cook, Engineering Branch WSR-88D Operational Support Facility (405)366-6520 x4237 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org; debian-devel@lists.debian.org Subject: comp usa rebates? Date: Thursday, June 04, 1998 12:53 PM I'm trying to create tar files less than 100Mb to fit on zip disks (by the way, my rebate arrived last week, only a year and a half a class action suit late). The above comment reminds me. Has anyone besides me bought some memory from comp-usa within the last 6 months and is STILL waiting for their rebates? I bought some 64mb worth or dram under several different rebate programs and have still not heard from the bastards. Is there grounds for a class action here? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
advantage of new kernel 2.0.34
They have included the FAT32 support. Many users need to mount their win95 partition. Many can't even install without support, as they need to install from a FAT32 partition. I had this problem installing on a machine a few months ago. You had to patch 2.0.33 to get it. John John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Getting Hamm out
Stephen Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While perusing around reading e-mail and jumping in on ocasional discussions I noticed some mention of the possibility of cutting down on some of the less importnat discussions an dhelping get hamm out... I remember there was a list a while back of Critical Bugs that were holding up hamm... what is the status of that? has that report been run again? I would like to see the latest version of that list. It is constantly run in debian-testing@lists.debian.org (see lists archive on the web). I don't know how much of a help I can be (my life is crazy lately) but I would be willing to take a look and see if there is anything I can help fix You can sure help in testing the packages. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 2048/E451C639 Jens Ritter Key fingerprint: 5F 3D 43 1E 24 1E CC 48 1E 05 93 3A A7 10 73 37 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: comp usa rebates?
well one day I openned up my mailbox and found a nice surprise, though it took me awhile to realize that this was a rebate I sent off about 8 months ago. I think theres a 1-800 number on the rebate form somewhere...but you already sent that off :) Alex Withers ([EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED]) PGP fingerprint: 1B1C DBF7 8589 7660 8E36 48FB A519 68AE 7355 0F72 On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The above comment reminds me. Has anyone besides me bought some memory from comp-usa within the last 6 months and is STILL waiting for their rebates? I bought some 64mb worth or dram under several different rebate programs and have still not heard from the bastards. Is there grounds for a class action here? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: comp usa rebates?
I bought a lot of things from Comp USA on rebate and they didn't send me any of them (rebates) until I called them. They told me their rebate department had some problems. Anyway that means they lost most of the rebates, or at least they lost the ones I sent. So you gotta call them and tell them what rebates you sent...They might also ask you for the copies of receipt...BTW when sending rebates ALWAYS make copies (esp. if you can get em for free like I can :) of the receipts, or ask the store to give you a copy or two - will save you a lot of headaches later on. On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to create tar files less than 100Mb to fit on zip disks (by the way, my rebate arrived last week, only a year and a half a class action suit late). The above comment reminds me. Has anyone besides me bought some memory from comp-usa within the last 6 months and is STILL waiting for their rebates? I bought some 64mb worth or dram under several different rebate programs and have still not heard from the bastards. Is there grounds for a class action here? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Non-interactive install proposal
Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A good way to start would be to seperate the unpacking and
installation from the configuration.
dpkg should start one thread to extract a package, when a package is
done a second threat is signaled and the next is extracted.
The second thread configures the package. If any question is to be
asked, the controll is given to a third threat and the next package is
configured.
The third thread pops up the question. As soon as the user has
answered the package is send back to the second thread to continue
installation. The third thread could search a database instead of
asking the user and only ask for unknown questions.
On slow systems and systems with little memory, this will dramatically
slow down the process. I once installed a 1.3.1 on a 486/33 and was
very annoyed by the scanning databases step while running dselect
(because it was on an install party).
So please take performance into consideration, too.
I suggest:
As every package knows best, what questions to ask and which config it
relies on, allow a script with a defined interface (sh, perl, whatever
the maintainer likes and what language is available in a base system).
The script will ask the necessary questions and prepares configuration
files.
This script can be given information, how packages it depends on have been
configured, and gives the configuration information back to the
database (Which data to pass is determined by a config file entry).
The {post,pre}inst script now only has to extract the config info and
genarate the actual configs. Administration of a farm now consists of
distribution of the database and localization of the database).
If we then get this interfaced to COAS all will be well. :-)
Jens
---
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Key ID: 2048/E451C639 Jens Ritter
Key fingerprint: 5F 3D 43 1E 24 1E CC 48 1E 05 93 3A A7 10 73 37
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Re: advantage of new kernel 2.0.34
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Luis Francisco Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess the kernel-maintainer is the only one that can evaluate if there are any security improvements that should make it into hamm. Otherwise, let's not put new code into the freeze. Debian 2.1 should not take long after hamm. I know I'm being quite optimistic here :) Well, our news server (Diablo, #threehundredsomething in the top1000) crashed regulary with all the 2.0.x kernels but with the later 2.0.34pre kernels it has been rock-stable. It has now been running 2.0.34pre16 since it was out, as have most of our other servers. And 2.0.34-release is just 2.0.34pre16. I'd say it's _more_ stable then any other 2.0.x kernel. Mike. -- Miquel van Smoorenburg | Our vision is to speed up time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | eventually eliminating it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
