Re: Documentation/License freeness

[Fabien Ninoles]

On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 11:39:38AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> 
> On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Jun 06, 1998 at 08:42:14PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
> > > On Jun 06, Santiago Vila wrote:
> > > 
> > > Documentation may be included in main so long as there are no restrictions
> > > on the unmodified use of the documentation and no restrictions on
> > > translating the documentation to another format, provided the translation
> > > preserves the natural language of the author.
> 
> Mmm, sorry but I didn't write that :-)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
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Yes, just look is from myself.

-- 

Fabien Ninoles  Running Debian/GNU Linux
E-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
WebPage:  http://www.callisto.si.usherb.ca/~94246757
WorkStation [available when connected!]: http://nightbird.tzone.org/
RSA PGP KEY [E3723845]: 1C C1 4F A6 EE E5 4D 99  4F 80 2D 2D 1F 85 C1 70



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ANNOUNCE: Debian NetWinder Porting Project

[Jim Pick]

Hi,

I'm helping to organize an effort to port Debian GNU/Linux to run
on the new Corel NetWinder NCs ( http://www.corelcomputer.com/ ).

Debian GNU/Linux is the largest Linux distribution, with over 1500
packages and ports to Intel, Alpha, m68k, PowerPC and Sparc.  It is
being developer entirely by over 300 volunteers on the internet.

If you are a Debian developer, and are interested in contributing
to this effort, please contact me, and I will add you to the list.

We are also collecting a list of people who would like to acquire
NetWinder hardware to develop on.

For more information on the project, here's the web page:

  http://master.debian.org/~jim/netwinder.html

More information on Debian is available at:  http://www.debian.org/

Cheers,

 - Jim



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Re: Xinetd bug #20705

[peloy]

Norbert Veber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The bug report pretty much says:
> xinetd: samba 1.9.18p3-1 don't work from xinetd (from inetd is ok)
> 
> What I need is to know if this is a real bug or just a user configuration
> problem.  I personally do not have/use samba, but I know of at least 2 people
> that use it successfully with xinetd.  If someone else could confirm this
> bug, then I will forward it to the upstream maintainer, otherwise I will
> close it..

OK, I finally installed xinetd and configured Samba to work with it.
However, I confirm there's something wrong and the bug report is
correct (it's filed by different users against samba and xinetd).

I'll investigate further...

E.-

-- 

Eloy A. Paris
Information Technology Department
Rockwell Automation Venezuela
Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9431645


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Re: The Hamm Bugs Stamp-Out List for 1998-06-08

[Remco Blaakmeer]

On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Joel Klecker wrote:

> At 18:29 -0700 1998-06-08, Richard Braakman wrote:
> >Package: login
> >Maintainer: Guy Maor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  22191  login: does not chown /dev/vcs* anymore
> 
> As I quoted in a reply to 22191:
> 
> Here's what the author says in libmisc/chowntty.c:
> 
> #ifdef __linux__
> /*
>  * Please don't add code to chown /dev/vcs* to the user logging in -
>  * it's a potential security hole.  I wouldn't like the previous user
>  * to hold the file descriptor open and watch my screen.  We don't
>  * have the *BSD revoke() system call yet, and vhangup() only works
>  * for tty devices (which vcs* is not).  --marekm
>  */
> #endif
> }

Apart from this, I thought that using /dev/vcs* at all is depricated and
that the use of /dev/tty* is preferred instead. Am I right or are there
still situations where using a /dev/vcs* device is preferred above using a
/dev/tty* device?

Remco


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[Petra, Kevin J Poorman]

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Alright, the more I think about this, the more I think that James
is probably right. (NO flames, people can change there minds can't they?)
Mc doesn't belong in the base set. However I do think more attention
should be paid to the user. (not alot more just some.) so here is what I
propose: Lets rewrite the keybindings for Ae, to something that is much
simpler. something akin to the keybindings on pico[1]. We can then set
this alternative keybinding to be the default, and also include a vi and or
standard keybindings, set. this should make everyone happy. IMHO. I'm
working on the new keybindings right now... hopefully I'll have them done
tonight, and in my home dir on master (ewigin). If anyone wants to help,
Letme know.

Here is the breakdown on space taken up, by extra rc file for ae:
- -rw-r--r--   1 root root 2452 Nov 13  1997 ae.rc
- -rw-r--r--   1 root root 3301 Nov 13  1997 ae2vi.rc
are included, so figure about 3000 for a ae-pico.rc 

[1]: I've been told that pico is the "braindead" editor thats why I chose
it.

- -Kevin Poorman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])



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kernel 2.0.34 & fat32

[Kenneth . Scharf]

Thanks to everyone that pointed out that the fat32 patches ARE in 2.0.34.
I assumed that fat32 remained a configure option, but it appears that it is
now a standard feature (of fat).  At least that's why I could not find any
reference to fat32 in the configure scripts.

It must be a mess for the kernel source maintainer to take the 'official'
kernel sources from Linus and then apply what ever current patches that are
deemed good  for debian to create a custom kernel source package.  I assume
that the  debian kernel source package for 2.0.34 will be placed in slink
eventually.



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Re: Xinetd bug #20705

[peloy]

Remco Blaakmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hmm, I did wonder why you stopped answering my messages.

Sorry about that Remco, my apologies :-( I guess I got kind of busy +
was afraid of dealing with xinetd, something I have never touched
before :-)

>> Today I e-mailed Jeremy Allison (from the Samba team) asking about
>> issues to run Samba from xinetd. I am waiting for his reponse.
> 
> Fine.

No answer so far...

>> Yesterday I searched the Samba mail archives for any information regarding
>> xinetd and did not find anything with the word "xinetd".
> 
> :-( Does this mean the bug has been found by Debian users only and that it
> hasn't been forwarded upstream?

I have no idea. Can it be that not too many people use xinetd?

>> One other thing: it is my understanding that the other Samba daemon
>> (smbd) works fine with xinetd; the problem is with nmbd. Can anyone
>> confirm this?
> 
> Yes, I can. smbd works fine under xinetd, the problem is with nmbd only.

And what about a configuration problem? Can it be that we need a very
special and wird parameter in xinetd to make it work with nmbd (or the
opposite way)?

Bye for now. I guess I'm going for xinetd now. Wish me look as I guess
I'll learn new things today...

E.-

-- 

Eloy A. Paris
Information Technology Department
Rockwell Automation Venezuela
Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9431645


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Re: Xinetd bug #20705

[Norbert Veber]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 12:30:50PM -0400, Eloy A. Paris wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> 
> > The bug report pretty much says:
> > xinetd: samba 1.9.18p3-1 don't work from xinetd (from inetd is ok)
> > 
> > What I need is to know if this is a real bug or just a user configuration
> > problem.  I personally do not have/use samba, but I know of at least 2 
> > people
> > that use it successfully with xinetd.  If someone else could confirm this
> > bug, then I will forward it to the upstream maintainer, otherwise I will
> > close it..
> 
> I (as the Samba maitainer) feel a bit guilty about this. Remco
> Blaakmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> reported this as a bug
> in Samba and I told him I was going to investigate but the truth is
> that I have done nothing to to my lack of time and my unexperience
> with xinetd (haven't ever used it).

I think its safe to close the samba bug, as this seems to be an xinetd
configuration problem.  I will let you know when I confirm this (probably
today or tomorrow).

> By the way, I thought Adam Heath was the maintainer of xinetd. Did
> this change lately? Also, why xinetd is in non-free?

Adam was the maintainer, I took over the package very recently.  It is in
non free because of a screwed up non-maintainer release, 2.2.1-4 was
supposed to fix this, but it was rejected due to a technicality that I will
have sorted out shortly.


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Re: Xinetd bug #20705

[Norbert Veber]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 03:55:58PM +0200, Mirek Kwasniak wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 02:56:44PM -0400, Norbert Veber wrote:
> > The bug report pretty much says:
> > xinetd: samba 1.9.18p3-1 don't work from xinetd (from inetd is ok)
> > 
> > What I need is to know if this is a real bug or just a user configuration
> > problem.  I personally do not have/use samba, but I know of at least 2
> > people that use it successfully with xinetd.  If someone else could
> > confirm this bug, then I will forward it to the upstream maintainer,
> > otherwise I will close it..
> 
> I've submitted this bug. I have two debian boxes: my workstation (hamm)
> and my server (bo). This bug come with samba 1.9.18 (with 1.9.17 I hadn't
> this problem). I tried nmbd standalone and from inetd - it simply runs.
> Then I filled a bug report against xinetd.
> 
> Hurray, hurray !
> 
> I find today a solution, you need add " flag=REUSE" for nmbd (service
> netbios-ns) section in xinetd.conf. nmbd is started from xinetd and I see
> that it runs.
> 
> Add this to docs and close this bug :)
> 
> Mirek

yay! :)

Thanks alot!
 
I think I will install samba though, and try it for myself just to make
absoulutely sure that this works.  I am not questioning you, I just want to
make absolutely sure that THIS change is what is needed to make it work.



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Re: HELP! Need dhcp-1.0.0-3!!!

[Eloy A. Paris]

Hi,

> > I have just installed dhcp-1.0.1-1 (replacing dhcp-1.0.0-3) and now
> > all my clients are unable to renew their leases. I deleted the old
> > dhcp-1.0.0-3 in my local mirror so I am unable to downgrade. Does
> > anyone keep an old package around that can send to me or put for FTP
> > somewhere?
> > 
> 
> Do you still need this? I can put it up somewhere for you if you do...

Oh, I forgot about this... Well, thanks a lot but I thanks a God
dhcp-beta (latest version in Hamm) does not suffer from the problem
dhcp-1.0.1-1 had and that is what I am using right.

Thanks a lot for the offer, I really appreciate it :-)

See ya!

E.-

-- 

Eloy A. Paris
Information Technology Department
Rockwell Automation Venezuela
Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9431645


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Re: Documentation/License freeness

[Marcus Brinkmann]

Hello Fabien!

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 10:41:38AM -0500, Fabien Ninoles wrote:
> I'm not sure I understand you well but here is my opinions about freeness
> of Documentation:
> 
> Documentation describing the functionnality of a software are dependant
> of the software. Then, they should be considered as source by the DFSG.
> The reason underlying this is the same as why bad documentation is
> considered like a bug. The DFSG must be apply to them. This included most
> FAQ, manual and source.

Yes, this is correct.
 
> Not technical documentation can be divised in two kind. Author works and
> Official Documents. Author works must not be changed. They express the
> opinions and observations from a person and can even be a description of
> something. They have the particularity to be fixed in time and always
> can't be fixed because heavily link to a given author and a given time.
> White Paper, most e-mails, and document such as "Homesteading in the
> Noosphere" or "Le Corbeau et le Renard" from Jean de la Fontaine, are
> of this kind. I considered this work free enough for Debian when simple
> verbatim reproduction, with or without a fee, are permitted without
> conditions. Even unofficial translations can be prohibited because we
> can't decided if the translation really correctly reflect the thought
> of the author.

Yes, although it would be very sad if we would have much documents of this
sort in our distribution. I don't think those sort of documents belong to
the Debian distribution (are there any of these beside some email quotes in
/usr/doc?). The most important thing is: We don't *need* to change them.
There is no reason for us to change them, as we don't do censorship (well,
we include them or we don't).

I don't know what "Homesteading in the Noosphere" is, but if they are
literature, well, copyright expires after some fifty years, and then it
becomes free. Isn't overly important for us, too.

> Official document are like author works. They are bound with a specified
> time  and loose all their value if modifications are done freely on them.
> However, translations should be permitted given it is clearly mark as
> a translation and that the authors are [may be] not accepting the work
> as a verbatim copy of the original. DFSG compliance can may be need
> modifications with version and/or title change [because people need to
> know what we are talking about], but aren't necessary IMHO.

Do you have examples for this category? The only one I can think of are
copyright documents. I think copyrights fit very well in your description.
I can't think of other examples.

> Finally, it's possible for a document to included both technical part
> and non-technical part. The license should then permit the technical part
> to be changed accordingly to the source to be DFSG compliant.

Yes, but it would be better to have them completely seperated. In a book,
this seperation should be made clear using different chapters or whatever.
It should probably be easy (and allowed) to remove the "offending"
non-technical part, although I'm not sure if this is necessary. I'm not sure
about mixing those types in one source... phew, this gets complicated!
 
> What we need to keep in mind with deciding if a document is DFSG compliant
> is the user point of view. If it does more harm to allow modifications
> in a document, regarding both the historical aspect and the technical
> point of view, documents don't need to allow modifications. Allowing
> no verbatim modifications on Author Works can harm [just see what out-of-
> context citations can do in press media and you should understand me.].

No, sorry, I don't agree. We should not have in mind the users point of
view, but the developers point of view. Most users don't care about our
seperation of non-free and main, they are happy if some program is available
at no cost and if it works.

It *can* do harm to modify gcc! It can do more harm to change the
kernel than the supporting documentation, or the text of some RFC.

We should think about what rights we *need*, and should demand those. For
technical documents, I think the dfsg are the right demands.

We don't need the same rights for personal email etc. Then format conversion
and packaging etc is enough. For standards, I'm a bit biased. I think they
are technical documents.

> Not allowing translation of Official Documents are, IMHO, discrimination.
> This documents needs to be known by everybody. However, other modifications
> can lead to the distribution of different standards whom all share the
> same name, which as everybody know is worst than not having any standard
> at all. Finally, source needs to be fixed and technical documentation
> who are not compliant with the source are already broken. Not allowe the
> documentation to be fixed is a bug in itself.

Yes. Again, I don't think that standards should be immutable. There'll only
be one "official" standard anyway, and people who are afraid about
changeable stand

Re: [Fwd: Debian Netwinders]

[Jim Pick]

Jim Pick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> As for the machines, he says the developers versions are the
> top-of-the-line model, with a 3.1 GB hard drive and 64 MB of RAM.  I
> think they are based on a 233MHz StrongARM.
^^

Oops, make that a 275MHz StrongARM.  I found the specs at:

  http://www.netwinder.org/specs.html

Hardware Specs

   Processor
 * StrongARM (SA110) 275 MHz, delivering over 260 Mips

   Flash Memory
 * 1 MB, provides diskless booting capabilities, expanded security
   and configuration capabilities

   Memory
 * 16, 32 and 64 MB SDRAM (10 nanosecond)

   Hard Drive
 * Drives are available from 1 to 3 GB in a 2.5" slimline form factor

   Connectivity
 * Two ethernet ports, one 10BaseT and one 10/100BaseT
 * EPP/ECP port
 * IrDA port - commercial and electronics grade
 * Serial port

   Video
 * 2 MB accelerated SVGA video capable of 1600 x 1280 in 256 colors
   1024x768 in 16 bit

   Multimedia
 * Full duplex 16 bit stereo sound card (44100Hz sampling)
 * Built in microphone/speaker
 * NTSC/PAL (composite video in/out)
 * Onboard capture and playback
 * Telephony Support


(drool)

This could be fun.  :-)

Cheers,

 - Jim


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Re: [Fwd: Debian Netwinders]

[Jim Pick]

Behan Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Looks like you guys can talk to Chris or San directly about Netwinder
> development if you wish.

I just phoned Chris Herrnberger (the OCLUG guy), and quizzed him.

He says Corel has loaned OCLUG ten Netwinders for development
purposes.  If we want to get going on development right away, he's
even got a spare one that he could mail to us right away!

What he wants to know from us is:

 1) Who we are and what we want to do.

 2) How many of us are going to do work on the port.

 3) How many machines do we need/want.

I'm going to send him an email answering at least the first question.

He's going into Corel Computer tomorrow to talk to San Mehat, so he'd
like to take some of that information in with him.

I guess I sort of volunteered to be the point person for the porting
effort, so if you are interested, please contact me, and I'll add you
to the list.  Tell me if you are interested in buying a machine for
your own use as well.

If you are interested, you should also go to www.netwinder.org, and
sign up there to get on the developers list.  He says they are swamped
with applications right now, so it may take several days to get
processed.

As for the machines, he says the developers versions are the
top-of-the-line model, with a 3.1 GB hard drive and 64 MB of RAM.  I
think they are based on a 233MHz StrongARM.  They haven't settled on
the discounted price for developers, but it should be between
$700-$1100 CDN ($490-$770 US).  He says Corel wants to get as many
machines out into the hands of developers as possible.

I asked when they are going into production, and he said that they are
in production right now - but they are waiting for FCC approval.  They
don't have a problem with supply.  He also said that there are going
to be various cheaper configurations, and that the price will drop.

Cheers,

 - Jim


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package list out of date in debian/dists/unstable/main/

[stefan kluth]

Hi,

I just tried to download the gnu/egcs c++ and c compilers, but I couldn't
because the versions in the packagelist and of the actual packages don't
match. 

I looked in:

ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/

an example is egcs g++:

in Packages:
Package: g++
Version: 2.90.28-0.1

But in ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/devel/:
g++_2.90.29-0.3.deb 


cheers, Stefan

---Stefan Kluth---Lynen Fellow|\--|\---
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Re: RETRACTED msql 2.0.3-4

[Martin Schulze]

On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 12:55:53PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
> I have moved msql 2.0.3-4 into Incoming/REJECT
> 
> - Forwarded message from James Troup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Schulze) writes:
> 
> >* Added pre-dependency for passwd to msqld as its tools are used
> >  in the preinst.
> 
> You're meant to obtain a consensus on debian-devel before doing this
> (Policy 2.3.4).
> 
> -- 
> James
> ~Yawn And Walk North~
> 
> - End forwarded message -
> 
> Does anybody object?
> 
> The problem is that the _preinst_ might use the programs useradd and
> groupadd.  These are not in the base system nor essential.  They're
> included in the passwd package.  They might use configuration files
> that might not be configured when using a normal Dependency.
> 
> Is there another way to solve this?  

As I haven't received an appropriate alternative, may I move the
files out of the REJECT directory and back into the Incoming?

Regards,

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 /  No question is too silly to ask, /
/   but, of course, some are too silly to answer.  -- perl book /


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Jim Pick]

Behan Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I also have an offer from one of Brian's friends (he was lent one of the
> Netwinders).  He is willing to give a few people accounts on his
> Netwinder.  He just has a few security concerns to address first (he's
> got to pick up a hub to connect the Netwinder to his 10base2 home
> network and then setup some firewall rules to protect the rest of his
> network).  I'm not sure, but I might be able to talk him into giving a
> few people root access on it too.

What would be cool is if we could convince him to have two partitions
- one for Red Hat and one for Debian.  :-)

Of course, if I can get my own, that would be better.

Cheers,

 - Jim



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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Jim Pick]

Steve Dunham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> When/if they are ready and Corel doesn't want to sell them directly,
> someone like varesearch or linuxmall could be convinced to become
> resellers.  (Or even Red Hat would be interesting...)

Even non-traditional channels could resell them (as long as they could
hire support).  It's not like a traditional PC - there's nothing to
configure, they come in a box.  Small ISPs could sell nice little
preconfigured Gnome boxes to people who want a PC for surfing the net.

Cheers,

 - Jim



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Re: kernel 2.0.34

[G John Lapeyre]

I haven't tested it, but it really looks like Gordon Chaffee's
patches are included. 

homey 4 > rgrep -i -r 'fat32' .
./fs/fat/cache.c:  fat_bits == 16 ? EOF_FAT16 :
EOF_FAT3
2);
./fs/fat/inode.c:   int fat32;
./fs/fat/inode.c:   if (!b->fat_length && b->fat32_length) {
./fs/fat/inode.c:   /* Must be FAT32 */
./fs/fat/inode.c:   fat32 = 1;
./fs/fat/inode.c:   MSDOS_SB(sb)->fat_length=
CF_LE_W(b->fat32_lengt
h)*sector_mult;
./fs/fat/inode.c:   fat32 = 0;
./fs/fat/inode.c:   MSDOS_SB(sb)->fat_bits = fat32 ? 32 :
./fs/fat/misc.c:/* Flushes the number of free clusters on FAT32 */
./fs/fat/misc.c:/* The fat32 boot fs info is at offset 0x3e0 by
observat
ion */
./fs/fat/misc.c:   MSDOS_SB(sb)->fat_bits == 16 ?
EOF_FAT16 : EO
F_FAT32);
./CREDITS:D: vfat, fat32, joliet, native language support
./include/linux/msdos_fs.h:#define EOF_FAT32 0xFF8
./include/linux/msdos_fs.h: /* The following fields are only used by
FAT32 *
/
./include/linux/msdos_fs.h: __u32   fat32_length;   /* sectors/FAT */
./include/linux/msdos_fs.h: __u16   starthi;/* High 16 bits of
clust
er in FAT32 */
./include/linux/msdos_fs_sb.h:   fat32:1; /* Is this a
FAT32 par
tition? */
./include/linux/msdos_fs_sb.h:  unsigned long fsinfo_offset; /* FAT32
fsinfo off
set from start of disk */


On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I downloaded the sources for the 2.0.34 kernel and did a quick look through
> the files.  The fat-32 patches do not seem to be in here.  If 2.0.34 is to
> be released as a debian package, then I hope all of the patches that are in
> the 2.0.33 package are added.
> 
> Also has anyone packaged the Real Time linux kernel mods and utilities?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 

John Lapeyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre


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[Fwd: Debian Netwinders]

[Behan Webster]

Looks like you guys can talk to Chris or San directly about Netwinder
development if you wish.

Later,

Behan

-- 
Behan Webster mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-613-224-7547   http://www.verisim.com/
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings Behan;

Nice to see you comming on board. Here are the offical contacts for you
and all other Debian developers.

Registration at www.netwinder.org
Equipement: me or San Mehat at Corel Computer

me: Chris Herrnberger tel 613 230 7892, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
them: San Mehat Corel Computer: tel: 613 788 6000 6165,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Corel is running a discount program on equipement for exactly this
reason. We from OCLUG are organizing the distribution and development
program in conjuction with Corel

OCLUG: 

Francis Pinteric: software ports and apps [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andrew E Mileski: kernal and xwindows [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Corel

San Mehat as above

These email addresses are just in case you get no response or as fast as
you would like. We are here to help, Pls do use the netwinder news
listing though for general comments and questions etc. Again; Thanks for
your interest and support

Chris Herrnberger
OCLUG OSC-CCC Netwinder Dev Project
Founder and Project Manager

--- End Message ---

Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Behan Webster]

Jim Pick wrote:
> 
> Sign me up - I can come up with $1000 CDN no problem.

Drat.  Sorry.  I just talked to one of the Netwinder developpers.  It
doesn't sound like they are selling the Netwinder yet.  Even to
developpers.  Just lending them out.  Although I get the feeling that
they will start selling small quantities soon...

I'll let you know if I find anything else out.

Behan

-- 
Behan Webster mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-613-224-7547   http://www.verisim.com/


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Behan Webster]

Steve Dunham wrote:
> 
> I'd like to see the Corel Computers used as generic cheap Linux
> Computers.  They are reported to be fairly cheap, perform reasonably
> well and have lots of neat I/O features.  (NTSC in/out, 2 ethernet
> ports.)

The demo I saw seemed to show the Netwinder to be pretty fast.

> When/if they are ready and Corel doesn't want to sell them directly,
> someone like varesearch or linuxmall could be convinced to become
> resellers.  (Or even Red Hat would be interesting...)

Apparently they are talking to various OEM resellers (Point of sale, and
quiosk systems mostly) right now, but I'm sure somebody like varesearch
would make a mint selling them directly to the Linux community.

> > Sign me up - I can come up with $1000 CDN no problem.
> 
> I'm interested in buying one too.  Are they actually selling them yet?

No.  But soon.  They are only lending Netwinders to developpers in OCLUG
right now, and supposedly setting up net connected Netwinders for now.

> Behan's message contains the seemingly contradictory statements that
> Corel has gotten them out the door and that they haven't even set a
> price yet.

My appologies.  I should have said "made them available to certain
developpers".  They are only available to certain people right now.

> If software is the only remaining issue (i.e. hardware is finalized),
> I'd be happy with something that runs and can be bootstrapped off of
> the net, with a promise of the completed software on CD when it
> becomes available.

This is indeed what I understand to be the thing that needs work.  The
hardware is finalized, but they are still working on the software
support side.  They are inlisting people from the local area (i.e.
members of OCLUG to help them), but ultimately others as well.

But don't listen to me.  I have just received email from one of the guys
on the Netwinder team.  I'll forward it to the list.

I also have an offer from one of Brian's friends (he was lent one of the
Netwinders).  He is willing to give a few people accounts on his
Netwinder.  He just has a few security concerns to address first (he's
got to pick up a hub to connect the Netwinder to his 10base2 home
network and then setup some firewall rules to protect the rest of his
network).  I'm not sure, but I might be able to talk him into giving a
few people root access on it too.

Behan

-- 
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+1-613-224-7547   http://www.verisim.com/


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Re: Xinetd bug #20705

[Remco Blaakmeer]

On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Eloy A. Paris wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> 
> > The bug report pretty much says:
> > xinetd: samba 1.9.18p3-1 don't work from xinetd (from inetd is ok)
> > 
> > What I need is to know if this is a real bug or just a user configuration
> > problem.  I personally do not have/use samba, but I know of at least 2 
> > people
> > that use it successfully with xinetd.  If someone else could confirm this
> > bug, then I will forward it to the upstream maintainer, otherwise I will
> > close it..
> 
> I (as the Samba maitainer) feel a bit guilty about this. Remco
> Blaakmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> reported this as a bug
> in Samba and I told him I was going to investigate but the truth is
> that I have done nothing to to my lack of time and my unexperience
> with xinetd (haven't ever used it).

Hmm, I did wonder why you stopped answering my messages.

> Today I e-mailed Jeremy Allison (from the Samba team) asking about
> issues to run Samba from xinetd. I am waiting for his reponse.

Fine.

> Yesterday I searched the Samba mail archives for any information regarding
> xinetd and did not find anything with the word "xinetd".

:-( Does this mean the bug has been found by Debian users only and that it
hasn't been forwarded upstream?

> Finally, since nmbd works fine from inetd, I really would like to know
> if the problem is wrong configuration of xinetd or there is really
> something wrong with nmbd (in which case you should close the bug
> against xinetd and I'll have to fix the same bug filed against Samba).
> Experienced xinetd users please stand up, we need help!
> 
> One other thing: it is my understanding that the other Samba daemon
> (smbd) works fine with xinetd; the problem is with nmbd. Can anyone
> confirm this?

Yes, I can. smbd works fine under xinetd, the problem is with nmbd only.

> By the way, I thought Adam Heath was the maintainer of xinetd. Did
> this change lately? Also, why xinetd is in non-free?

According to the bug tracking system, he still is the maintainer.
/usr/doc/xinetd/changelog.Debian.gz says that xinetd was moved to non-free
at version 2.2.1-3. This was done on "Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:31:50 -0500". I
think it is a bad thing that the reason why it was moved is not mentioned
at all in the changelog (or anywhere else for that matter).

Remco


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Shaleh]

They are not out yet.  I think they are talking August 1. 
Pre-production demos/betas are floating around.  I played w/ one of
these at Linux Expo.  Currently it is a mix of a.out and ELF and RH 4.2
kludged w/ 5.x.  So the software is flaky and the compilation tools are
still being tweaked.  On top of that the firmware/nvram stuff is also
being played w/.  Yes I will have one when they roll out.  (-:  I was
quoted 700-1300 dollars US.


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Steve Dunham]

Jim Pick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Behan Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > They are only giving discounts to OCLUG members, but since I'm in OCLUG,
> > I could probably approach the appropriate people to do some enquiries. 
> > I wouldn't hold your breath though.  OCLUG is very RedHat based.

> I've talked to some of the Corel guys on the phone before, and they
> seemed very reasonable and open-minded.

> Basically, nobody has sold Corel on the potential of OEM vendors using
> Debian.  They've just been listening to Red Hat and their convincing
> story of how they are making megabucks, and the sales channel that is
> already in place there.

I'd like to see the Corel Computers used as generic cheap Linux
Computers.  They are reported to be fairly cheap, perform reasonably
well and have lots of neat I/O features.  (NTSC in/out, 2 ethernet
ports.)

When/if they are ready and Corel doesn't want to sell them directly,
someone like varesearch or linuxmall could be convinced to become
resellers.  (Or even Red Hat would be interesting...)

> > How many developpers are we talking here?  Last I heard they were
> > looking for a few good hackers, especially kernel hackers.  They still
> > have kernel features that they would like to see implemented too.  Maybe
> > I'm opening a pandora's box here, but which Debian Developpers are
> > interested in getting access to or buying a netwinder, etc? (Last I
> > heard Corel is thinking of $1000 (CDN I think) per netwinder).

> Sign me up - I can come up with $1000 CDN no problem.

I'm interested in buying one too.  Are they actually selling them yet?

Behan's message contains the seemingly contradictory statements that
Corel has gotten them out the door and that they haven't even set a
price yet.

If software is the only remaining issue (i.e. hardware is finalized),
I'd be happy with something that runs and can be bootstrapped off of
the net, with a promise of the completed software on CD when it
becomes available.


Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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p3nfs (was Bug #21488: p3nfs linked against libc5)

[Chris Reed]

   
As listed in The Hamm Bugs Stamp-Out List for 1998-06-08, p3nfs is still 
linked against libc5, and the maintainer,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Billy 
C.-M. Chow) cannot be contacted.

I have looked on ftp.uni-elargen.de:/pub/psion3/local/utilities and found a 
glibc diff for version 5.3 (current version in hamm is 5.1).  I've 
downloaded this and with a one line patch it compiles, and I've had it 
working.

I would be willing to adopt the package with this new release, but I don't 
have a psion permanently; the one I'm using is on loan.

So, 4 choices:  

i) I do a NMU of the libc6 p3nfs.  If it doesn't work, I'd be willing to 
look into problems.

ii) I become maintainer of p3nfs (what is the correct procedure here?), and 
then orphan the package when I lose access to a psion.  Or even continue 
maintaining it, with no idea whether my latest builds work...?

iii) Someone else takes over p3nfs, starting with what I have at the moment.

iv) We drop p3nfs from frozen, as this is a major version change, and there 
won't be a large number of people testing it.  I'd prefer not to do this, 
though, as I for one use it.  And it's in bo.

Comments, suggestions?

 -- Christopher Reed, Selwyn College, Cambridge --
 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  WWW: http://dura.sel.cam.ac.uk/ [~cr212/]
 r2 T1 cSEL dCS hEn/Chi A4 S+ C*$+++L/UdP W+++ y# a VTsj (Cantab) 1.0 
OK, Meatloaf. Pulp. Same thing. Just different hair. - cr212



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Re: What version of glibc in Hamm?

[Dale Scheetz]

On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Yann Dirson wrote:

> Dale Scheetz writes:
>  > Second: this was supposidly the last pre-release before the final version,
>  > and I wanted it to get some testing.
>  > 
>  > I will be coming out with a "final" Debian version in the next week or
>  > two, depending on how much Ulrich stonewalls the upstream release.
> 
> Hm... it will be great as long as there are no interface changes
> between current version in hamm and the final version you want to put
> there.  I was told by Ted T'so that Ulrich told he doesn't care too
> much about these interface changes, which is BTW a reason for glibc to
> get into the LSB.
> 
> Will this upgrade not imply that we recompile and test the whole of
> the dist, to make it sure hamm is self-compilable ?  If not, every
> bugfix upload will possibly break something because of a possible
> glibc change...

You may be confusing 2.0.7 with 2.1.X, which is getting many changes.

The 2.0.7 CVS tree is still accepting bug fix patches, so the only
difference between 2.0.7pre3 and 2.0.7 will be that more of the critical
bugs on glibc will be fixed. Even those programs that show bugs with the
current glibc will probably not need recompiling to gain the fixes in the
shared libraries.

The only reason that Ulrich is holding back on releasing 2.0.7 stems from
the fact that, because of incompatible differences in the 2.0.6 and 2.0.7
loaders, the make install target does not succeed, as the new loader must
link to the new library, which is not installed (or the new library
install breaks the old loader, until the new library can be installed, but
with a broken loader...). The Debian package system deals with this
problem effortlessly (I believe it is done by installing under temp names
and then doing an atomic rename of both files) and the upgrade from 2.0.6
to 2.0.7 goes very smoothly.

This, by the way, is something that RedHat may not be able to deal with,
but then I don't know anything about RedHat but what I read in the press.

Hope this settles your "fears",

Dwarf
--
_-_-_-_-_-   Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide"  _-_-_-_-_-_-

aka   Dale Scheetz   Phone:   1 (850) 656-9769
  Flexible Software  11000 McCrackin Road
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL  32308

_-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_-


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Re: Bug#22928: New upstream security fix release

[Raul Miller]

Mark W. Eichin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What about the idea of running the x server directly from init,
> > and using xdmcp?  Is that bogus?
> 
> In fact, someone sent in reasonable-looking patches that do just that,
> not long before I stopped working on X; they should be in one of the X
> bug reports on the subject.  I'd have to dig to find them...  if you
> can't find them in the bug reports, I can dig my old email, or maybe
> the originator is lurking...

The bug tracking system does not appear to be searchable using site
search (or maybe it is, and any reference to xdmcp has been removed),
resorting to altavista only turned bug 4757, and that doesn't contain
patches.

-- 
Raul


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gcc problems with /usr/lib/crt1.o

[servis]

Debian Developers,

I recently upgraded to the hamm distribution.  Ever since the upgrade I
have not been able to compile anything with gcc.  Even a simple hello
world program fails to compile. Example:

/* hello world */
#include 
int main(void)
{
  printf("Hello world!\n");
  return 0;
}
/* end hello world */

tcsh% gcc -o hello hello.c
/usr/lib/crt1.o(.text+0xe): undefined reference to `__libc_init_first'
/usr/lib/crt1.o(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `_environ'

I have installed egcc and g++ and they both compile this without any
problems.  I have the latest copies of the required files. I had the
'hamm' versions installed at first but those failed as well so I
upgraded to the following to see if that would fix anything, it didn't.

ii  gcc 2.7.2.3-4.5The GNU C compiler.
ii  cpp 2.7.2.3-4.5The GNU C preprocessor.
ii  egcc2.90.28-0.1The GNU (egcs) C compiler.
ii  g++ 2.90.28-0.1The GNU (egcs) C++ compiler.
ii  libc6   2.0.7pre3-1The GNU C library version 2 (run-time files)
ii  libc6-dev   2.0.7pre3-1The GNU C library version 2 (development fil

I did not have any problems before my upgrade to hamm.  Several people
have told me to just use g++ but that does not _fix_ the problem.  I
would really appreciate any help on this matter.  If you need more
information please let me know.

Thank you,

Brian Servis
-- 
Mechanical Engineering  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Purdue University   http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~servis


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[David Welton]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 11:02:55AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Why? I think you see vi as I see gpm and they see mc: as an "essential 
> > convenience".
> 
> vi has the advantage of being backward compatible into the early '80s.
> 
> The only unix editors which vie with vi for standardness are ed (the
> unix standard), and emacs (backwards compatible into the early '70s).

Just for fun, from the the standard emacs distribution:

- -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  24 Oct 29  1929 /bin/ed
- -rwxr-xr-t  4 root 1310720 Jan  1  1970 /usr/ucb/vi
- -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  5.89824e37 Oct 22  1990 /usr/bin/emacs   

:-)
-- 
David Welton  http://www.efn.org/~davidw 

Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org


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Re: so what? Re: Debian development modem

[Raul Miller]

Marcus Brinkmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe we should raise our demands to our developers: We should probably make
> clear *before* someone wants to become a developer that the job of a
> developer is not only care about the packages he/she maintains, but also the
> quality of the whole distribution. This can mean that he should cooperate on
> general solutions as well as active work on other packages at release time.

Sure, but there's just too many good reasons for not fixing something
ranging from "If I fix this it'll break that" to "I can't reproduce this
and am not sure this is a real problem, but I can't disprove it either",
to "I just got married, debian can wait for a week" to "I'm not going 
to be able to do much on my packages till I get out of the hospital" to
"I didn't see that bug last time I checked, and I don't understand why
my packages have been orphaned, as far as I know I've been receiving 
email successfully every day for the last year," ...

-- 
Raul


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[Miquel van Smoorenburg]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>What is it people see in vi in terms of _using_ it? My opinion FWIW is that 
>vi's presentation rivals that of dselect in general, with vi inching dselect 
>out for not forcing one to follow a set path without saying what that set path 
>should be. So, why do the vi users like _using_ vi? (Someone already said 
>"it's standard"... can I get real reasons now? :)

The editor expert who cannot even break his lines at 80 characters ..

:)

Sorry, but you're asking for a flamewar. Which is why I (vi user) will
not reply to your question.

Mike.
-- 
 Miquel van Smoorenburg | Our vision is to speed up time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |   eventually eliminating it.


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[Raul Miller]

Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Isn't ease of use more important than standardness when it comes to
> an editor to be used for a rescue situation? I think that I would try
> doing an alternative set of boot disks to see how folx liked them. Is
> it possible to make mc use vi? On the rescue disk, size is at least
> neck and neck with ease of use.

(1) I'd prefer to postpone this dicussion till after hamm is released.
(2) mc on my system always uses vi, even if I have EDITOR turned off.
(presumably because it wants to save my preferences, and doesn't
understand that I have different working environments).
(3) ae is sufficiently easy to use, and sufficiently small.

> What is it people see in vi in terms of _using_ it?

Outside the scope of debian-devel. Or, at least, I'd rather concentrate
on getting hamm out the door than in editor religious discussions.

If you are after opinion (as opposed to discussion), I'll be following
this letter with a personal one to you, describing my own concepts of
why vi is popular.

-- 
Raul


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Re: dpkg bug when "overwriting" directories.

[James Troup]

Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> severity 20250 important
> severity 17381 important
> severity 19218 important
> severity 19991 important
> severity 21812 important
> merge 20250 17381 19218 19991 21812
> thanks

Please note that --force-overwrite really has to be turned back on by
default before release and that after that, although still a bug, this
becomes less than release-critical.
 
-- 
James
~Yawn And Walk North~  http://yawn.nocrew.org/


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Re: kernel 2.0.34

[Johnie Ingram]

"Bob" == Bob Nielsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Bob> conclude that it probably is there (maybe in a different form
Bob> than the patches).
Bob> As usual, the documentation lags the code, of course.

The documentation is off on Alan Cox's site -- it seems you have to
activate NLS support and UTF8 before the vfat/fat32 options are even
activated.

-  PGP  E4 70 6E 59 80 6A F5 78  63 32 BC FB 7A 08 53 4C
 
   __ _Debian GNU Johnie Ingram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  mm   mm
  / /(_)_ __  _   ___  __"netgod" irc.debian.org  mm mm
 / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / m m m
/ /__| | | | | |_| |>  <  Yes, I'm Linus, and I am your God. mm   mm
\/_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\   -- Linus, keynote address, Expo 98   GO BLUE


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Jim Pick]

Behan Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> They are only giving discounts to OCLUG members, but since I'm in OCLUG,
> I could probably approach the appropriate people to do some enquiries. 
> I wouldn't hold your breath though.  OCLUG is very RedHat based.

I've talked to some of the Corel guys on the phone before, and they
seemed very reasonable and open-minded.

Basically, nobody has sold Corel on the potential of OEM vendors using
Debian.  They've just been listening to Red Hat and their convincing
story of how they are making megabucks, and the sales channel that is
already in place there.
 
> As far as I know Corel Computer Corp is making a bank of Netwinders
> available to the net.  You have to setup login permissions through
> OCLUG.  I'll make some enquiries...

That might be useful for bootstrapping Debian.  :-)
 
> How many developpers are we talking here?  Last I heard they were
> looking for a few good hackers, especially kernel hackers.  They still
> have kernel features that they would like to see implemented too.  Maybe
> I'm opening a pandora's box here, but which Debian Developpers are
> interested in getting access to or buying a netwinder, etc? (Last I
> heard Corel is thinking of $1000 (CDN I think) per netwinder).

Sign me up - I can come up with $1000 CDN no problem.

Cheers,

 - Jim


pgpayrKmX3ttG.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Behan Webster]

Jim Pick wrote:
> 
> Steve Dunham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > > I bet we could brow-beat Corel into donating a few boxes.  I heard
> > > they go as cheap as $300 US for a diskless configuration.
> >
> > It's all just rumors, I've heard nothing back from them.  We might
> > have to brow-beat them into selling boxes.
> 
> You could also try touching base with the Ottawa-Carleton LUG.
> 
>   http://www.oclug.on.ca/
> 
> They're pretty plugged into Corel.

That's a bit of an understatement.  OCLUG provided the expertise and
kernel knowledge to get the Netwinder out the door.  I.e. Several OCLUG
members were part of the team at Corel that got the Netwinder out the
door.  That's why Corel is being so nice to them and giving OCLUG people
discounts, etc...

> We've got a few developers in Ottawa (Brian White, Behan Webster, ???)
> - we might be able to ask them to do some footwork if need be.

They are only giving discounts to OCLUG members, but since I'm in OCLUG,
I could probably approach the appropriate people to do some enquiries. 
I wouldn't hold your breath though.  OCLUG is very RedHat based.

As far as I know Corel Computer Corp is making a bank of Netwinders
available to the net.  You have to setup login permissions through
OCLUG.  I'll make some enquiries...

How many developpers are we talking here?  Last I heard they were
looking for a few good hackers, especially kernel hackers.  They still
have kernel features that they would like to see implemented too.  Maybe
I'm opening a pandora's box here, but which Debian Developpers are
interested in getting access to or buying a netwinder, etc? (Last I
heard Corel is thinking of $1000 (CDN I think) per netwinder).

Brian and I were at the Netwinder kick off at Carleton U when OCLUG
announched Netwinder to the world.  It is a nifty little box which is
quite fast and _very_ feature-full.

Behan

-- 
Behan Webster mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-613-224-7547   http://www.verisim.com/


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Re: kernel 2.0.34

[Bob Nielsen]

On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I downloaded the sources for the 2.0.34 kernel and did a quick look through
> the files.  The fat-32 patches do not seem to be in here.  If 2.0.34 is to
> be released as a debian package, then I hope all of the patches that are in
> the 2.0.33 package are added.

I don't have a FAT32 system to check it, but there are several FAT32
references in the files in fs/fat/* which lead me to conclude that it
probably is there (maybe in a different form than the patches).

As usual, the documentation lags the code, of course.

Bob


Bob Nielsen Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tucson, AZ  AMPRnet:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DM42nh  http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen



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Re: Release management - technical

[Enrique Zanardi]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 04:21:57PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> I think that in order to make sense of what's being said here we need
> to step back a bit, and think about abstractions rather than
> implementation.  Lots of people (myself included) have been posting
> rather detailed proposals.
> 
> Q. What are we trying to achieve ?
> 
> A. There are two possibilities that I can see
> - Timely and good-quality releases, or
> - Releases which meet some predefined set of goals.
> 
> I think we can only do one of these.  With hamm we're doing the
> latter; in the future I think we should do the former.

Fine, as long as we have some "long term goals" that must be achieved,
better sooner than later (FHS compliance, for example).

[...]
> For a whole distribution, I think we have:
>* all packages' dependencies can be satisfied
>* other mechanical consistency checks (file overlaps,
>  priority/dependency checks, etc.) are OK
>* distribution or something very like it has been tested
>  and no sufficiently serious problems have been found

Elaborating on that last point I would add: fresh installations as well
as upgrading from previous release/releases has been tested.

--
Enrique Zanardi[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Release management - technical

[Bdale Garbee]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:

: We need to think about what kinds of thing need to happen to a package
: or to a distribution before we release it as `stable'.

Yes.

I find it impossible to completely divorce the conceptual model from any
reference to details of the present or any proposed implementation, but I'll
give it a try.

One of the difficulties we have right now is that, whether we admit it or not,
we have a three-phase distribution mechanism.  The first is "pre-unstable"
which is currently made up of the Incoming directory, and files that get 
parked on a number of sites around the world because some users want these
packages, and the delay through Incoming for a new package is large.  The
second is 'unstable', which as many have pointed out is often not very
unstable at all... but it can get that way from time to time.  The third is
the 'stable' tree, which has value for folks who want to press CD's, but is
not of much interest to anyone I've met who is net-connected.

The problem with 'frozen' is that it's a release candidate whose rules for
formation and maintenance are such that for a time, at least, it was far less
stable than 'unstable'!  It is also unfortunate, but predictable, that with
our current process for freezing and releasing from 'unstable' that we end
up with this release-candidate sitting around for many months... which is
insane.

In one of the proposals that is floating around, that incorporates some ideas 
I posted earlier along these lines, this three-phase nature of what we do 
becomes more explicit.  The 'unstable' tree becomes just what it says it is.
Any new package from a registered developer moves instantly from Incoming to
unstable.  What we have called 'unstable' in the past gets a new name, like
'unreleased' or 'pre-release' and in effect is a continuously-available
release candidate that all developers would be expected to be running and which
therefore would get lots of ad-hoc testing.

Incoming -> unstable -> unreleased -> stable

The "Incoming -> unstable" transition is instant.  The "unstable -> unreleased"
transition applies all the structural rules for a stable release (dependencies,
lintian rules checks, etc), and requires that the version in unstable have
been present without new bug reports for some period of time.  The 
"unreleased -> stable" transition is performed by the release engineer when
the unreleased tree is in a good state and the clock ticks the appropriate
hour.
 
Thus, the release process from 'unreleased' to 'stable' would be a much less 
momentus event... and would, for the most part, be the act of freezing a 
snapshot of the current release candidate, perhaps tweaking the one or two
items like installation media which tend to get last-minute attention before 
a stable release.  Everybody wins!  Those who want/need bleeding edge stuff
don't have to look so hard for it.  Those who want a stable release that
doesn't break structural expectations get that.  The testing job gets easier
because more people are helping.  The release manager has an easier job because
there's always a release candidate around in good condition. 

I'm already on record as being willing to help code some of the process
changes that a scheme like this would require... but I think we ought to get
hamm out the door, first... and soon.

Bdale


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[Jim]

> Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Why? I think you see vi as I see gpm and they see mc: as an "essential 
> > > convenience".
> > 
> > vi has the advantage of being backward compatible into the early '80s.
> > 
> > The only unix editors which vie with vi for standardness are ed (the
> > unix standard), and emacs (backwards compatible into the early '70s).
>   ^
> Now _THAT'S_ a great idea... A boot disk with emacs... Hmmm... Size...
> Darn... :)

Yeah, that is too bad...

Isn't ease of use more important than standardness when it comes to an editor 
to be used for a rescue situation? I think that I would try doing an 
alternative set of boot disks to see how folx liked them. Is it possible to 
make mc use vi? On the rescue disk, size is at least neck and neck with ease of 
use.

What is it people see in vi in terms of _using_ it? My opinion FWIW is that 
vi's presentation rivals that of dselect in general, with vi inching dselect 
out for not forcing one to follow a set path without saying what that set path 
should be. So, why do the vi users like _using_ vi? (Someone already said "it's 
standard"... can I get real reasons now? :)

-Jim



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Re: dpkg bug when "overwriting" directories.

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Shaleh wrote:

> Is there anyway there could be a variable set that says "do not install
> /usr/doc files"?  This way those who do not want the docs can go on w/o
> them.

That would not fix Bug #17381 (overwriting /usr/include/linux), for
example, or Bug #19991 (overwriting /etc/ppp).

IMHO, a general solution is needed, not a new variable for every
directory you want to overwrite.

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Re: Intent to pakage astrolog

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 06:14:16PM -0700, Tom Lear wrote:
> 100% freeware of course means it has to go into non-free, because of a
> plethora of copyrights, all less than acceptable.

:)
 
> Any objections?

Not as long the scientific software overcounts the pseudo-scientific :)

Marcus
stud. rer. nat.

PS: For the humour impaired. This is not a real objection.

-- 
"Rhubarb is no Egyptian god."Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ 
Marcus Brinkmann   http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]for public  PGP Key
http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/   PGP Key ID 36E7CD09


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dpkg and alpha/beta versioning (Was: Uploaded mpsql 2.0-1)

[Yann Dirson]

Gregory S. Stark writes:
 > this problem keeps coming up. i was thinking it would be handy to have a
 > character that is defined to sort before 0 and before the empty string. 
 > tilde seems like the best choice to me, so something like:
 > 
 > krb4-0.9.9~980514 
 > fltk-0.9.9~980527
 > mpsql-2.0~b1
 > 
 > which i think is probably clearer than what i actually did:
 > 
 > krb4-0.9.8.980514
 > fltk-0.9.8.980527

This is a simple idea.  IIRC, as the ~ char is not not allowed for now
in version numbers, it could work.

I remember of another proposal of extension of version syntax which
was proposed (probably on deb-dev), which IIRC was to use an
epoch-like syntax like 0.1:1.2-3, which did not contaminate all future
versions with the epoch (which was, as I understand it, one of the
arguments epoch's "enemies" have).  I don't remember the (IIRC a bit
hairy) exact semantics, but maybe it's worth studying further.

Another problem we'll have will be what version-string to present the
user to make it understand it's alpha/beta/whatever.  Either
extensions (tilde and dotted-epoch) are non-trivial as such, and
should only be used IMHO as an internal (ie. for dpkg and developpers,
and not for users) representation.

If we're at last going to discuss these issues, I'm volunteering to
coordinate the discussion and post summaries of the discussion's
progress.

-- 
Yann Dirson<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Stop making M$-Bill richer & richer,
isp-email:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | support Debian GNU/Linux:
debian-email:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | more powerful, more stable !
http://www.mygale.org/~ydirson/ | Check 


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Re: so what? Re: Debian development modem

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 08:02:05PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This again means that we need to encourage more maintainers to work on
> > multi-package-solution and to skip the 300-mini-cathedral-situation.
> > Only few people are working on package that are not maintained by
> > them, this needs to be re-considered.
> 
> I'm not sure that can be completely avoided. "The Cathedral and the
> Bazaar" doesn't replace "The Mythical Man Month", it supplements it.
> 
> As I recall, development has an exponential communications cost as the
> group size increases, while testing is highly parallelizable.
> 
> In other words, I think we need a small "danger team" to go in and put
> on the last few bits of spit and polish we need for release.

I'm not sure how dangerous it is to touch this topic, but what about this:

Maybe we should raise our demands to our developers: We should probably make
clear *before* someone wants to become a developer that the job of a
developer is not only care about the packages he/she maintains, but also the
quality of the whole distribution. This can mean that he should cooperate on
general solutions as well as active work on other packages at release time.

I know that this is a volunteer organization, but hey, nobody is forced to 
become
a developer. I hope you don't get me wrong: Everybody should act as he/she
can, I don't mean that someone should be forced to work on things he/she
doesn't understand or has no time for.

I know that this already done so by most to all of the active developers,
but maybe this can prevent "some small cathedrals" among us.

Am I talking non-sense here? Comments?

Marcus

-- 
"Rhubarb is no Egyptian god."Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ 
Marcus Brinkmann   http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]for public  PGP Key
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Re: dpkg bug when "overwriting" directories.

[Shaleh]

Is there anyway there could be a variable set that says "do not install
/usr/doc files"?  This way those who do not want the docs can go on w/o
them.


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dpkg bug when "overwriting" directories.

[Santiago Vila]

severity 20250 important
severity 17381 important
severity 19218 important
severity 19991 important
severity 21812 important
merge 20250 17381 19218 19991 21812
thanks

(What follows is described already by Florian Hinzmann in Bug #21812)

To reproduce this error, I have created two packages "foo" and "bar".
[ See  http://master.debian.org/~sanvila/foobar  for details ].
Both packages contain an empty directory called /usr/doc/foobar.
By doing this:

dpkg -i foo_1_all.deb
rmdir /usr/doc/foobar
dpkg -i bar_1_all.deb

the following is obtained:

[...]
dpkg: error processing bar_1_all.deb (--install):
 trying to overwrite `/usr/doc/foobar', which is also in package foo


Some people rm -rf /usr/doc to save space, and I think this should not
make dpkg to be confused.


Well, the bug seems to be in dpkg/archives.c, around line 350, but I'm
not sure. Has somebody a fix for this? Ian?

Thanks.


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Jim Pick]

Steve Dunham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > I bet we could brow-beat Corel into donating a few boxes.  I heard
> > they go as cheap as $300 US for a diskless configuration.  
> 
> It's all just rumors, I've heard nothing back from them.  We might
> have to brow-beat them into selling boxes.

You could also try touching base with the Ottawa-Carleton LUG.

  http://www.oclug.on.ca/

They're pretty plugged into Corel.

We've got a few developers in Ottawa (Brian White, Behan Webster, ???)
- we might be able to ask them to do some footwork if need be.

Cheers,

 - Jim



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Description: PGP signature

Re: Xinetd bug #20705

[Eloy A. Paris]

Hi,

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:

> The bug report pretty much says:
> xinetd: samba 1.9.18p3-1 don't work from xinetd (from inetd is ok)
> 
> What I need is to know if this is a real bug or just a user configuration
> problem.  I personally do not have/use samba, but I know of at least 2 people
> that use it successfully with xinetd.  If someone else could confirm this
> bug, then I will forward it to the upstream maintainer, otherwise I will
> close it..

I (as the Samba maitainer) feel a bit guilty about this. Remco
Blaakmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> reported this as a bug
in Samba and I told him I was going to investigate but the truth is
that I have done nothing to to my lack of time and my unexperience
with xinetd (haven't ever used it).

Today I e-mailed Jeremy Allison (from the Samba team) asking about
issues to run Samba from xinetd. I am waiting for his reponse.

Yesterday I searched the Samba mail archives for any information regarding
xinetd and did not find anything with the word "xinetd".

Finally, since nmbd works fine from inetd, I really would like to know
if the problem is wrong configuration of xinetd or there is really
something wrong with nmbd (in which case you should close the bug
against xinetd and I'll have to fix the same bug filed against Samba).
Experienced xinetd users please stand up, we need help!

One other thing: it is my understanding that the other Samba daemon
(smbd) works fine with xinetd; the problem is with nmbd. Can anyone
confirm this?

By the way, I thought Adam Heath was the maintainer of xinetd. Did
this change lately? Also, why xinetd is in non-free?

Bye for now.

E.-

-- 

Eloy A. Paris
Information Technology Department
Rockwell Automation Venezuela
Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9431645


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Re: namespace pollution in bind?

[Vincent Renardias]

On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Raul Miller wrote:

> Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I got to this a little late, but how about putting them in a
> > subdirectory, like the mh commands are ?  /usr/bin/dnsquery or some
> > such.
> > 
> > Then if you wanted these commands you could at it to your PATH.
> 
> That's overkill, and doesn't solve any problems.

I think adding subdirectories to /usr/bin is also a violation of the
FHS...

-- 
- Vincent RENARDIAS [EMAIL PROTECTED],pipo.com,debian.org} -
- Debian/GNU Linux:   Pipo:WAW:   -
- http://www.fr.debian.orghttp://www.pipo.com  http://www.waw.com -
---
- "La fonctionnalite Son Visuel vous delivre des avertissements visuels." -
-  [Message durant l'installation de Windows95]:wq 


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[jdassen]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 05:28:46PM +0200, Paul Seelig wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim) writes:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> > >  We _must_ have a vi (or at worst, vi clone) available in the base
> > >  system.

ME TOO

> This doesn't touch the fact that MC would be a very convenient additional
> feature for a user friendly Debian base system.

I do not oppose having a "user friendly" editor in the base system, as long
as that does not conflict with the desire to keep the base system small.
Remember, enough people are complaining about the base system's size as it
is.

Perhaps someone can look at "le"? Most of the libs it requires (libc6,
libstdc++2.8) are already in the base system; slang (which is in there too)
might be used instead of ncurses.

Ray
-- 
Obsig: developing a new sig


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Re: namespace pollution in bind?

[Raul Miller]

Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I got to this a little late, but how about putting them in a
> subdirectory, like the mh commands are ?  /usr/bin/dnsquery or some
> such.
> 
> Then if you wanted these commands you could at it to your PATH.

That's overkill, and doesn't solve any problems.

[mh is a different matter, and involves a number of commands with
fairly high-profile names.  There just plain aren't that many
conflicts for names like "mx" or "soa".]

-- 
Raul


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[James Troup]

Paul Seelig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> This doesn't touch the fact that MC would be a very convenient
> additional feature for a user friendly Debian base system.

a) I don't think it would be, b) that's not what the proposal was; the
proposal was to remove ae *and elvis-tiny* from the base system
because they're ``superseded'' by mc.  The fact that vi *must* be in
the base system clearly does touch on that.

> Who cares about it anyway if J.J.Troup likes it or not just because
> he (supposedly) doesn't really know it? ;-)

Oh, grow up Paul.  You have zero idea how well (or otherwise) I know
mc, so please stop the FUD.  Adding a smiley does not justify
childishness.

-- 
James
~Yawn And Walk North~  http://yawn.nocrew.org/


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Re: namespace pollution in bind?

[Ian Jackson]

Bdale Garbee writes ("Re: namespace pollution in bind?"):
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> : ... lintian flags the 'mx' and 'ns' commands as possible namespace 
> pollution.
> 
> Ok, I'm convinced.  The 8.1.2-2 package still includes these commands, and I
> will leave them in indefinitely.

I got to this a little late, but how about putting them in a
subdirectory, like the mh commands are ?  /usr/bin/dnsquery or some
such.

Then if you wanted these commands you could at it to your PATH.

Ian.


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Re: About the Hamm Freeze (!)

[Stig Sandbeck Mathisen]

* James Troup (Sun, Jun 07, 1998 at 07:47:21PM +0100)
> 
> Blah.  An even quicker ldd reveals this is already not the case.
> 
> 20:45:[EMAIL PROTECTED]| ~ $ldd /usr/bin/perl | grep gdbm
> libgdbm.so.1 => /usr/lib/libgdbm.so.1 (0x40015000)
> 20:46:[EMAIL PROTECTED]| ~ $
> 
> Until _that_ changes, perl can't not Depend on gdbm.

What's the greater evil?  hAving the gdbm package and the dependency, or
linking in libgdbm statically?

-- 
 SSM - Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
  Trust the Computer, the Computer is your Friend



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Re: Documentation/License freeness

[Fabien Ninoles]

On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 01:22:33AM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 06, 1998 at 08:42:14PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
> > On Jun 06, Santiago Vila wrote:
> > 
> > Documentation may be included in main so long as there are no restrictions
> > on the unmodified use of the documentation and no restrictions on
> > translating the documentation to another format, provided the translation
> > preserves the natural language of the author.
> 
> No, this is not enough. We have a section for such documents: non-free.
> 
> It is essential for the success of free software that we have up-to-date and
> high-quality documentation. We need the right to update documentation for
> the same reasons we need to update and fix the software.
> 
> > i.e. the machine language (formatting, whatever) of the document can be
> > converted between various formats, but the natural language used by the
> > author may not be changed (except if the author permits it).
> 
> This is one of the things we must be allowed to do, but this is not enough
> to include a document in main, IMHO.
> 
> > That would let us have RFCs, various FAQs (including the Linux/m68k FAQ,
> > which isn't in Debian because it's not DFSG-free and I have no intention of
> > making it DFSG-free), and even posts from RMS in the distribution.
> 
> I'm sorry that you don't want to make your FAQ dfsg free. However, I
> strongly object against including such documents in main.
> 
> A personal email from RMS is different from technical documentation! Please
> don't mix things up here.
> 
> A personal email is in fact an expression of an opinion, were a technical
> document is a summary of facts (sometimes even this is not true, but I don't
> want to complicate the situation).
> 
> Please read the mail from RMS once again: We need to be able to update the
> technical part of a document, or otherwise the document is not worth the
> bits it is written with (because we would have to rewrite it if things
> change). Take the Net-3-Howto as an example, or the PPP howto. If we are not
> allowed to change them, the latter will forever recommend cua? devices.
> Maybe they will, but maybe we will fix it sometime.
> 
> I can't imagine why people are afraid that other people will change the
> standards. Why should anybody try to apply essential changes to, for
> example, the FSSTND?
> 
> 1) The copyright would require to make chnages visible! So you would have to
>add a note at the top of the document, saying that you changed it and
>what you changed.
> 2) The document could even require a name change.
> 3) Nobody is afraid that someone publishes a gcc that appends to every
>executable a trojan horse. Please think a minute about this. You are
>afraid that someone will undermine a standard, but you are not afraid about
>gcc?
> 4) I didn't hear a reason why we should allow non-free documents yet.
>Why should we go away from our strict dfsg and include non-free documents
>in Debian?
> 
> Please give technical reasons, not only personal opinions. I don't understand
> why the principles of Free Software shouldn't work with software
> documentation, too.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> -- 
> "Rhubarb is no Egyptian god."Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ 
> Marcus Brinkmann   http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public  PGP Key
> http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/   PGP Key ID 36E7CD09
> 

I'm not sure I understand you well but here is my opinions about freeness
of Documentation:

Documentation describing the functionnality of a software are dependant
of the software. Then, they should be considered as source by the DFSG.
The reason underlying this is the same as why bad documentation is
considered like a bug. The DFSG must be apply to them. This included most
FAQ, manual and source.

Not technical documentation can be divised in two kind. Author works and
Official Documents. Author works must not be changed. They express the
opinions and observations from a person and can even be a description of
something. They have the particularity to be fixed in time and always
can't be fixed because heavily link to a given author and a given time.
White Paper, most e-mails, and document such as "Homesteading in the
Noosphere" or "Le Corbeau et le Renard" from Jean de la Fontaine, are
of this kind. I considered this work free enough for Debian when simple
verbatim reproduction, with or without a fee, are permitted without
conditions. Even unofficial translations can be prohibited because we
can't decided if the translation really correctly reflect the thought
of the author.

Official document are like author works. They are bound with a specified
time  and loose all their value if modifications are done freely on them.
However, translations should be permitted given it is clearly mark as
a translation and that the authors are [may be] not accepting the work
as a verbatim copy

Re: so what? Re: Debian development modem

[Ian Jackson]

Jim writes ("Re: so what? Re: Debian development modem "):
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> > We must decouple our development tracks much more.  I propose that we
> > resolve never again to plan a release with is not fully backward
> > compatible with the current stable version. 
> 
> I like this idea most of the time... but there are times when you
> just have to make a clean break. Going between libc versions was one
> of those times, as was going from a.out to elf. Otherwise, what are
> major number changes for?

This is simply not true.  When we moved from a.out to ELF both systems
were fully backward- and forward- compatible.  a.out and ELF systems
could run both a.out and ELF binaries (provided you installed the
right compatibility packages), and you could compile both a.out and
ELF binaries on either.

I think in particular that we should require that there be a set of
packages you can install that will allow you to build packages both
for the `new' system and the `old' system (perhaps with a magic rune
to say which, if they are that radically different).

Ian.


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[Turbo Fredriksson]

Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Why? I think you see vi as I see gpm and they see mc: as an "essential 
> > convenience".
> 
> vi has the advantage of being backward compatible into the early '80s.
> 
> The only unix editors which vie with vi for standardness are ed (the
> unix standard), and emacs (backwards compatible into the early '70s).
  ^
Now _THAT'S_ a great idea... A boot disk with emacs... Hmmm... Size...
Darn... :)

-- 
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___  /___(_)__  _  __ selective about who its friends are
__  / __  /__  __ \  / / /_  |/_/
_  /___  / _  / / / /_/ /__>  < Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645
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Release management - technical

[Ian Jackson]

I think that in order to make sense of what's being said here we need
to step back a bit, and think about abstractions rather than
implementation.  Lots of people (myself included) have been posting
rather detailed proposals.

Q. What are we trying to achieve ?

A. There are two possibilities that I can see
- Timely and good-quality releases, or
- Releases which meet some predefined set of goals.

I think we can only do one of these.  With hamm we're doing the
latter; in the future I think we should do the former.

Most people seem to be in agreement that the release management
process needs to decouple things, and we've been talking a lot about a
`foo distribution' for various values of `foo' (`unstable', `frozen',
etc.), where a distribution is a collection of various versions of
various packages.

We need to think about what kinds of thing need to happen to a package
or to a distribution before we release it as `stable'.

As a starting list, things that have to be OK for a package to be
called `stable':
   * maintainer can do build and initial testing
   * package has been tested (formally or informally) for some
 time and no (sufficiently serious) problems have been found

For a whole distribution, I think we have:
   * all packages' dependencies can be satisfied
   * other mechanical consistency checks (file overlaps,
 priority/dependency checks, etc.) are OK
   * distribution or something very like it has been tested
 and no sufficiently serious problems have been found

I think `or something very like it' is very important here.  We have a
strong ability in our packaging system and general architecture to
upgrade individual pieces in case they need fixes.  We should be able
to do this if we think it's likely to be a good idea.

Now, many of the proposals that I've seen so far allow a large version
skew between released stable and development versions.  I think this
is generally a bad idea, because
 * old versions are harder to maintain for all sorts of reasons
 * our developers are often not interested in maintaining old versions
 * developers are using a different system to the users, so we don't
   get so much testing by developers

So, I think we should be prepared to back off broken things even in
our working unstable tree, if they look like they aren't being fixed.

The stability criteria I described above seem to suggest that _time_
itself (if no bugs turn up) can turn a package from being considered
unstable to being stable.  There seems to be some argument about
whether unstable packages should be `aged' into stable.  I'm strongly
of the opinion that they should.

Note that I'm not proposing a scheme in this message.  Rather, I'd
like people to read these comments and think about and respond to the
issues involved.

Ian.


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Release management - politics

[Ian Jackson - Debian Project Leader]

Just briefly: we will _not_ be voting on release process/
architecture.  This is a technical decision, and is therefore up to
the developers concerned (Brian, mainly), and the Technical Committee.
Technical design and decisions must not be left to a vote.

I'll be making another posting about technical matters.

I think that it would be generally a good idea to step back from the
details proposals that people (myself included) have been making and
try to identify some of the key issues and overall options.

Ian.


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guavac bug #22325

[Hamish Moffatt]

Hi Brian,

Bug #22325, marked important, says that my package guavac has an
unsatisfied suggestion on java-virtual-machine. I need your
advice on what to do about it.

My thoughts are:

1. It's a suggestion only, so nothing will break if it doesn't exist.
   Unfortunately dselect is a bit picky about even suggestions.
   At the time I last built it, kaffe existed [albeit it in contrib]
   which satisfied the suggestion. (Interestingly there's my reported
   bug #16652 IIRC which says that javalex should move to contrib
   since it depends: java-virtual-machine -- but even that move won't
   solve its deps now). Perhaps there's the standard bug in dselect,
   `dselect is not user friendly', here.

2. It's a bug in some other package that java-virtual-machine doesn't exist.
   It's a registered virtual package name, AFAIK, so at one stage
   it must have been provided. jdk1.1-runtime should probably provide it
   but doesn't [bug?].

3. I could built it again without the suggestion. However the suggestion is
   valid, and more to the point, with the C++ compiler changeover
   it doesn't build out of the box. This is bad in its own right, but
   I think not `important'. I will have to spend some time tweaking it,
   and then hope that it still works as a result. I would prefer to avoid
   this.

thanks,
Hamish
-- 
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Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5
CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[Raul Miller]

Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why? I think you see vi as I see gpm and they see mc: as an "essential 
> convenience".

vi has the advantage of being backward compatible into the early '80s.

The only unix editors which vie with vi for standardness are ed (the
unix standard), and emacs (backwards compatible into the early '70s).

-- 
Raul


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Re: Port conflict ...bug?

[Petra, Kevin J Poorman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Sun, 7 Jun 1998, Joey Hess wrote:

> Stephen Carpenter wrote:
> > I would supose that it is not very common to run both xfs and xfstt on the
> > same machine (esp since xfstt currently only accepts 1 simultaneous 
> > connection --something I hope to change) but still...it could happen.
> 
> I expect to continue using xfs if I ever get around to using xfstt.

The FAQ, sugests putting the Xfstt font server under the served fonts from
XFS. just embed the Xfstt, in the Xfs.

the relavant part of the FAQ is here.

If you absolutely need to serve fonts to multiple other machines
(they MUST have the same byte order as the font server) you
should start xfstt on another port (e.g. xfstt --port 7101)
and add unix/:7101 to the catalogue of the standard X11 font
server xfs. Make sure you conform to the font licence when serving
to multiple clients.

- 
Particle man, Particle man
Doing the things a Particle can
Whats he like? Its not important
Particle man is he a dot, or is he a speck
When He's underwater does he get wet, or does the water get him instead?
- -Particle Man, by They Might Be Giants.

- -K


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Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv

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fk1feAiTzmQqspZiAkdjUlZhNDmfEMQK9PEhCoOQ7irc7Iweu2POZ91nWaV+8vzJ
OjkFXl37vWyTzrOSFdgXVFXppZuSJVkj
=0d8f
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Steve Dunham]

Jim Pick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Joel Klecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > At 21:20 -0700 1998-06-05, Steve Dunham wrote:
> > >Does anyone have any definite information on the Corel Network
> > >computers?  Is anyone else interested in doing a Debian port?

> > Vincent Renardias is apparently working on an arm port of Debian (In bug
> > #21327 against ftp.debian.org, he asks for a binary-arm section). This is
> > the processor that the Corel NCs are based on, right?

> Yep.

> The source is available at www.netwinder.org

> I bet we could brow-beat Corel into donating a few boxes.  I heard
> they go as cheap as $300 US for a diskless configuration.  

It's all just rumors, I've heard nothing back from them.  We might
have to brow-beat them into selling boxes.

> I'd love to get one to play with.  :-)

Me too.


Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: ircII is now free.

[Jim]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> As far as being 'happy' about it.. well, it's nice that it's cleared
> up, but.. I don't think we changed much other than some licensing
> details.  This software wasn't intended to be non-free...  If
> anything, I'm happy to put this behind me and get on with other
> things.

> I think it's more of an honest "victory" when something that isn't
> free becomes free. 

You have a point... but I think victories should be taken when and as they can 
be got. You got it. Now take it. And congrats David :)

-Jim



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Re: What version of glibc in Hamm?

[Yann Dirson]

Dale Scheetz writes:
 > Second: this was supposidly the last pre-release before the final version,
 > and I wanted it to get some testing.
 > 
 > I will be coming out with a "final" Debian version in the next week or
 > two, depending on how much Ulrich stonewalls the upstream release.

Hm... it will be great as long as there are no interface changes
between current version in hamm and the final version you want to put
there.  I was told by Ted T'so that Ulrich told he doesn't care too
much about these interface changes, which is BTW a reason for glibc to
get into the LSB.

Will this upgrade not imply that we recompile and test the whole of
the dist, to make it sure hamm is self-compilable ?  If not, every
bugfix upload will possibly break something because of a possible
glibc change...

-- 
Yann Dirson<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Stop making M$-Bill richer & richer,
isp-email:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | support Debian GNU/Linux:
debian-email:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | more powerful, more stable !
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An idea for the BTS (Was: Weeding out slink bug reports)

[Yann Dirson]

Richard Braakman writes:
 > Dennis L. Clark wrote:
 > > Can anyone think of an automated way to weed out bug reports on versions
 > > which haven't been released into hamm from the release-critical list? A
 > > quick fix would be to modify the priority of the bug report, but that
 > > would be The Wrong Thing.
 > 
 > Automating this would be wrong, I think.  The "Version" header in the
 > bug report says what version the bug was found in, not necessarily
 > what version first had the bug.

Sure, but it would be nice to have some sort of a mechanism to help us
to deal with bugs and dists.

I think that we should keep the state of each bug-report regarding
each dist (stable/frozen/unstable/experimental).

Maybe we could do that with additionnal attributes associated with
each report, eg. "{bo,hamm,slink}-status", which could take their
values in the set current of severities.  The still missing "Fixed"
severity would be used to tell a dist is clear wrt this report.

A bug will then be allowed to be closed only when all dists list
"Fixed".

Any comments ?
-- 
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debian-email:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | more powerful, more stable !
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Re: Xinetd bug #20705

[Mirek Kwasniak]

On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 02:56:44PM -0400, Norbert Veber wrote:
> The bug report pretty much says:
> xinetd: samba 1.9.18p3-1 don't work from xinetd (from inetd is ok)
> 
> What I need is to know if this is a real bug or just a user configuration
> problem.  I personally do not have/use samba, but I know of at least 2
> people that use it successfully with xinetd.  If someone else could
> confirm this bug, then I will forward it to the upstream maintainer,
> otherwise I will close it..

I've submitted this bug. I have two debian boxes: my workstation (hamm)
and my server (bo). This bug come with samba 1.9.18 (with 1.9.17 I hadn't
this problem). I tried nmbd standalone and from inetd - it simply runs.
Then I filled a bug report against xinetd.

Hurray, hurray !

I find today a solution, you need add " flag=REUSE" for nmbd (service
netbios-ns) section in xinetd.conf. nmbd is started from xinetd and I see
that it runs.

Add this to docs and close this bug :)

Mirek


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Re: ircII is now free.

[Bernd Eckenfels]

Hello,

I will upload a new version of ircII with a note on the free copyright and
some minor fixes later this week.

Have a nice day.

eckes

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Re: Base Set: Suggested additions & removals.

[Jim]

Hi all... another comment from the peanut gallery (i.e., non-voter) :)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>  We _must_ have a vi (or at worst, vi clone) available in the base
> system.

Why? I think you see vi as I see gpm and they see mc: as an "essential 
convenience".

Fact about VI: it has two modes which make the keys mean totally different 
things and don't announce themselves except thru the terminal bell. My opinion 
about this: (deleted; form your own :)

Historical fact about VI: some people got really, really good at using it :)

-Jim



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Re: kernel 2.0.34

[fog]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 07:42:27AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I downloaded the sources for the 2.0.34 kernel and did a quick look through
> the files.  The fat-32 patches do not seem to be in here.  If 2.0.34 is to
> be released as a debian package, then I hope all of the patches that are in
> the 2.0.33 package are added.

I think they included the patches in 2.0.34 upstream.
 
> Also has anyone packaged the Real Time linux kernel mods and utilities?

Nope, but maybe I will because I am starting a porject that requires
RTLinux. (This is *not* a declaration of intents!)

Ciao,

--***
* Federico DI Gregorio ** GCS/S/>L d- s:>:+ a26 C++ UL++ P+++ L*+++>$ D *
*   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   ** W+>++ N+ o? !K w--->!$ O M- V-- PS+(+++) PE(--) 
*   Debian Developer   ** Y+(-)(+)(-)... PGP+ s+ 5- X+++ R*<+(+++) b+++ *
*  ** DI++ D G- e+++> h--- r++ z++  *
*


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Re: mutt & pgp

[jdassen]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 02:10:52PM +0200, Michael Dietrich wrote:
> why is mutt compiled without pgp-support as default?

Because of US export restrictions on software containing cryptographic code.

The version that's available from ftp.debian.org and its mirrors ("mutt") is
compiled without PGP support. The international version (available from
nonUS.debian.org and its mirrors) is compiled with PGP support ("mutt-i").

In the past, there was no crypto code in mutt, merely hooks, which we
considered safe. Now the crypto version of mutt is developed in Germany, and
this version actually contains crypto code itself, not just mere hooks; it
can therefore not be exported from the US, and is therefore not available
from the regular Debian sites.

HTH,
Ray
-- 
LEADERSHIP  A form of self-preservation exhibited by people with auto-
destructive imaginations in order to ensure that when it comes to the crunch 
it'll be someone else's bones which go crack and not their own.   
- The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan


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Bug#23125: marked as done (Hamm generation with FTP)

[Ian Jackson]

Your message dated Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:57:11 +0200
with message-id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and subject line Bug#23125: Hamm generation with FTP
has caused the attached bug report to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I'm
talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration
somewhere.  Please contact me immediately.)

Ian Jackson
(administrator, Debian bugs database)

Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 3 Jun 1998 13:21:56 +
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  by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1998 13:21:38 -
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(950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA11788; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:19:35 
+0200
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:19:35 +0200 (MDT)
From: Janos Vegh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Hamm generation with FTP
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi,

I am generating a totally new system using hamm.

My first problem: I guess that something is wrong with with the
link handling in dselect. Namely:

I used ftp.kfki.hu, the nearest to me mirror.
It contains the distribution in /pub/linux/debian, but in pub/linux
it contains a link (as debian). Because of this, the packages are not 
found. Then I changed to ftp.at.debian.org, where /debian contains the
same packages, I could have a smooth download.

second:
It is hidden somewhere deeply that the packages must be in
/dists, which, as I learned, is the generic place for them.
However, if I write out the absolute path, it should override
this default. If not, the user should be warned. 
Presently it accepts the abssolute path during "Select" and
cannot find the packages during "Install"

third:
there are little inconsistencies in the dependencies.
Some of the problems I experienced:

a: package pinepgp  depends on pine
but pine does not appear to be available
The same holds for pgp

b: when selecting xexec, I cannot return to "Select" until I
remove xexec selection

c: guavac suggests but does not show the Java Virtual Machine,
so I cannot select it. The only way is to deselect guavac.
The latter package seems to be not available, as it happens
out later


d: p2c depends on libp2c1, which is not available.

These are the little problems I experienced till know.
I also experienced some missing libraries in the 
generated ssystem, but since there were FTP errors,
and 95+% on the disk, I repeated the generation 
from scratch.

If I find something, I will let you know, in a separate mail.
Otherwise congratulations, you collected a great material!

Best regards

Janos VEGH



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mutt & pgp

[Michael Dietrich]

hi all,

why is mutt compiled without pgp-support as default?


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kernel 2.0.34

[Kenneth . Scharf]

I downloaded the sources for the 2.0.34 kernel and did a quick look through
the files.  The fat-32 patches do not seem to be in here.  If 2.0.34 is to
be released as a debian package, then I hope all of the patches that are in
the 2.0.33 package are added.

Also has anyone packaged the Real Time linux kernel mods and utilities?



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Re: ftp1.us.debian.org down ?

[Philip Hands]

> You wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 11:02:57AM +0200, Gregor Hoffleit wrote:
> > > Since a few days, I'm unable to connect to ftp1.us.debian.org.
> > > I always get an error "530 Unable to chdir.". Could somebody look
> > > into this ?
> > 
> > Netgod "stole" its disk in order to produce some Debian CD-ROMs.
> > The system should come back today (monday).
> 
> Fine. Now (Tuesday morning GMT) I'm finally getting a "Connection refused".
> I guess the disk is back again ;-)
> 
> Perhaps there's an European mirror of the preliminary hamm CD images ??? ;-)

We're working on it --- open.hands.com has anon-ftp and anon-rsync, but is not 
currently able to produce CD images, because it's having trouble running 
mkhybrid re-compiled for libc5 (it's still running bo, I should be able to
fix that this evening either by upgrading to hamm, or fixing mkhybrid).

In the mean time, if European testers need to get copies of the distribution, 
I'd suggest rsync to open.hands.com as a viable method.

Please mail me, before grabbing the whole thing, because the machine is only 
on the Internet through the kindness of the folks at Netcom UK, and I don't 
want the bandwidth usage getting totally out of hand.  Also, I can give you 
hints on the excludes-file you probably want to use to avoid getting all the 
architectures etc.

Once CD images get produced, rsync would seem to be the  best way to go, since 
subsequent downloads will only need the differences to be transfered.

Cheers, Phil.



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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Vincent Renardias]

On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Joel Klecker wrote:

> At 21:20 -0700 1998-06-05, Steve Dunham wrote:
> >Does anyone have any definite information on the Corel Network
> >computers?  Is anyone else interested in doing a Debian port?
> 
> Vincent Renardias is apparently working on an arm port of Debian (In bug
> #21327 against ftp.debian.org, he asks for a binary-arm section). This is
> the processor that the Corel NCs are based on, right?

Yes, although the arm machine I have (Acorn RiscPC 600) is equiped with an
ARM610 processor, while Corel's boxes have a StrongARM, but there is a
binary compatibility between those 2 processors (like between i386 and
i586 for example).
The last stop stopper for releasing my ARM .debs is that the development
environment on ARM still doesn't support ELF completly (ELF pic code is
currently missing) but this should hopefully be fixed by the end of the
month.

Cordialement,

-- 
- Vincent RENARDIAS [EMAIL PROTECTED],pipo.com,debian.org} -
- Debian/GNU Linux:   Pipo:WAW:   -
- http://www.fr.debian.orghttp://www.pipo.com  http://www.waw.com -
---
- "La fonctionnalite Son Visuel vous delivre des avertissements visuels." -
-  [Message durant l'installation de Windows95]:wq 


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Re: ftp1.us.debian.org down ?

[Gregor Hoffleit]

You wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 11:02:57AM +0200, Gregor Hoffleit wrote:
> > Since a few days, I'm unable to connect to ftp1.us.debian.org.
> > I always get an error "530 Unable to chdir.". Could somebody look
> > into this ?
> 
> Netgod "stole" its disk in order to produce some Debian CD-ROMs.
> The system should come back today (monday).

Fine. Now (Tuesday morning GMT) I'm finally getting a "Connection refused". I 
guess the disk is back again ;-)

Perhaps there's an European mirror of the preliminary hamm CD images ??? ;-)

Gregor


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Re: Slink updates?

[Martin Schulze]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 12:37:17AM -0700, Tor Slettnes wrote:
> 
> It seems that the newest 'Packages' files in the slink distribution
> are from May 30th.  Is there a problem?

Yes.  See also
http://www.infodrom.north.de/Debian/Bugs/db/23/23306.html

Regards,

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 /  No question is too silly to ask, /
/   but, of course, some are too silly to answer.  -- perl book /


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Processed: f

[Ian Jackson]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> reassign 23125 general
Bug#23125: Hamm generation with FTP
Bug assigned to package `general'.

> reassign 23174 pppupd
Bug#23174: can't remobe old version of pppupd
Bug assigned to package `pppupd'.

> reassign 23252 xbase
Bug#23252: error in x-base configuration and postinstall
Bug reassigned from package `x-base' to `xbase'.

> reassign 23152 bootfloppies
Bug#23152: Installation not ide-floppy or scsi HD friendly.
Bug reassigned from package `boot disk installation process' to `bootfloppies'.

> reassign 23102 qmail-src
Bug#23102: qmail: hosts.allow modification in postinst fails
Bug reassigned from package `qmail' to `qmail-src'.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Ian Jackson
(administrator, Debian bugs database)


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Slink updates?

[Tor Slettnes]

It seems that the newest 'Packages' files in the slink distribution
are from May 30th.  Is there a problem?

-tor


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Re: Have to get rid of at least some packages

[Craig Small]

Michael Meskes wrote:
> Here's a list of my packages. It also contains the packages for which I made
> the last non-maintainer upload.
[...]
> djtools   1.0-2

I'll take djtools if it hasn't already gone.

  - Craig (sitting on the end of a dead 7513 :< )


-- 
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|@work: [EMAIL PROTECTED],@play: [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
|@home: [EMAIL PROTECTED],   @debian:[EMAIL PROTECTED]|
|@web: http://www.triode.net.au/~csmall @spam:[EMAIL PROTECTED]| 


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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Jim Pick]

Joel Klecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> At 21:20 -0700 1998-06-05, Steve Dunham wrote:
> >Does anyone have any definite information on the Corel Network
> >computers?  Is anyone else interested in doing a Debian port?
> 
> Vincent Renardias is apparently working on an arm port of Debian (In bug
> #21327 against ftp.debian.org, he asks for a binary-arm section). This is
> the processor that the Corel NCs are based on, right?

Yep.

The source is available at www.netwinder.org

I bet we could brow-beat Corel into donating a few boxes.  I heard
they go as cheap as $300 US for a diskless configuration.  

I'd love to get one to play with.  :-)

Cheers,

 - Jim


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Debian Gnome anxiety cure

[Jim Pick]

Pre-release .debs (still under construction).  24 of 'em, more to
come.

  ftp://ftp.jimpick.com/pub/debian/testing/

Be fore-warned - they've hardly been tested.  Also, the imlib packages
aren't the real ones - they're just quick hacks so I could compile the
rest.  Sean Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is working on real libungif and
imlib packages.  Those will need to be released before I can upload real
Gnome packages to master.debian.org (in a day or two, hopefully).

Have fun.  And don't bombard me with feedback just yet.  I'm still in
the phase of just getting something released.

Cheers,

 - Jim



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Re: On adding size info to Packages files

[Michael Bramer]

On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 09:31:01AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> >>"Michael" == Michael Bramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>  Michael> If the the size information isn't in the debian-package,
>  Michael> then i must download two files (NAME-VERSION.deb and
>  Michael> NAME-VERSION.size.gz) or dpkg has no information of the size
>  Michael> and can not make a warning message. :-(
> 
>   True. dpkg is a low level tool. The warning message at the
>  moment is generated by apt (so many packages to install, after
>  installing 324k shall be used). I don't think this belongs in dpkg;
>  it belongs in apt. APT can use a Sizes file (one download,
>  independent of the packages to be upgraded) to generate warnings *IF
>  ASKED*. I still think there are people out there who do not want this
>  in the first place.
> 

OK.
If only apt (and dselect ?) should use the size information, that is ok and 
you and the others are on the right way. 

In this case, dinstall should make the size information on master.
dinstall must check the package and can make the information from the deb
file. 

Grisu


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Mod player release

[Jason Gunthorpe]

Hi all,

I finally got around to releasing my old module player, a few people were
vaugely interested.

It is maintainerless (completely) unless somone wants to pick up, I've put
the source at http://www.debian.org/~jgg/muse it compiles and appears to
run OK under ALSA/OSS on latest-hamm. 

The readme has a long speal about what it can do. If any of you like
modules might want to pick it up.

Thanks,
Jason


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Re: Uploaded mpsql 2.0-1 (source i386) to erlangen

[Gregory S. Stark]

Michael Meskes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Yann Dirson writes:
> > Hm, assuming the "b1" means it's beta stuff, I think it would be
> > better to keep it in the Debian version.  Changing the version number
> 
> Yes, but then slink is also beta.
> 
> > * heavily using epochs
> 
> I HATE epochs!
> 
> > * add a string like "final" to the version when out of beta (I'll use
> > this for fweb)
> 
> I did that for my NMU of lyx, but it's not exactly nice either.

this problem keeps coming up. i was thinking it would be handy to have a
character that is defined to sort before 0 and before the empty string. 
tilde seems like the best choice to me, so something like:

krb4-0.9.9~980514 
fltk-0.9.9~980527
mpsql-2.0~b1

which i think is probably clearer than what i actually did:

krb4-0.9.8.980514
fltk-0.9.8.980527

or the other suggestions.

just an idea.

greg


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Re: The Hamm Bugs Stamp-Out List for 1998-06-08

[Joel Klecker]

At 18:29 -0700 1998-06-08, Richard Braakman wrote:
>Package: login
>Maintainer: Guy Maor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  22191  login: does not chown /dev/vcs* anymore

As I quoted in a reply to 22191:

Here's what the author says in libmisc/chowntty.c:

#ifdef __linux__
/*
 * Please don't add code to chown /dev/vcs* to the user logging in -
 * it's a potential security hole.  I wouldn't like the previous user
 * to hold the file descriptor open and watch my screen.  We don't
 * have the *BSD revoke() system call yet, and vhangup() only works
 * for tty devices (which vcs* is not).  --marekm
 */
#endif
}
--
Joel "Espy" Klecker
Debian GNU/Linux Developer




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Re: Corel Network Computer Port

[Joel Klecker]

At 21:20 -0700 1998-06-05, Steve Dunham wrote:
>Does anyone have any definite information on the Corel Network
>computers?  Is anyone else interested in doing a Debian port?

Vincent Renardias is apparently working on an arm port of Debian (In bug
#21327 against ftp.debian.org, he asks for a binary-arm section). This is
the processor that the Corel NCs are based on, right?
--
Joel "Espy" Klecker
Debian GNU/Linux Developer




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Intent to pakage astrolog

[Tom Lear]

Astrolog is a many featured and customizable astrology chart calculation
program for DOS, Windows, Mac, and Unix, used in 30+ countries on six
continents.  It is 100% freeware and requires no registration fee. :) The
complete source code is available . Astrolog features: wheels, aspects,
midpoints, relationship charts, transits, progressions, some
interpretations, astro-graphy, local horizon, constellations, planet
orbits, dispositors, various influence charts, biorhythms, different
zodiacs, central p lanets, 14 house systems, 8400 year ephemeris,
asteroids, Uranians, fixed stars, Arabic parts, script files and macros,
interactive PC & MS/X11 Windows graphics, smooth animation of charts,
graphic files in PostScript, Windows metafile, and bitmap formats , and
more! 

100% freeware of course means it has to go into non-free, because of a
plethora of copyrights, all less than acceptable.

Any objections?
- Tom


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Re: ircII is now free.

[Rev. Joseph Carter]

On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 02:05:45AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:

On the subject of ircII, thanks David, your effort is GREATLY appreciated.


> > > RedHat for one doesn't care for this, so I think it's one of the
> > > examples of what Debian is doing for Free Software with its
> > > clear and visible ideological organization.
> > 
> > Well, except for the fact that they are pumping 1000's of dollars into
> > Gnome development instead of taking the easy way out and paying
> > troll-tech...
> 
> ... and receiving much complaints by the KDE people ... as
> recently shown at Linux Kongress in Cologne...

I don't see how the KDE people have much right to complain.  1. It's
RedHat's money.  2. If they really have a problem with not getting money
from Redhat, they could start porting their Qt stuff to gtk and helping the
project to make gtk-- better.

I still think that KDE has all the right in the world to exist and under the
GPL license too (though it's apparent now that the KDE people need to
specify along with the GPL that they allow the linking of Qt in order for
them to be on the most solid legal footing)


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Re: ircII is now free.

[Martin Schulze]

On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 02:35:01PM -0700, David Welton wrote:
> > RedHat for one doesn't care for this, so I think it's one of the
> > examples of what Debian is doing for Free Software with its
> > clear and visible ideological organization.
> 
> Well, except for the fact that they are pumping 1000's of dollars into
> Gnome development instead of taking the easy way out and paying
> troll-tech...

... and receiving much complaints by the KDE people ... as
recently shown at Linux Kongress in Cologne...

Regards,

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 / http://home.pages.de/~joey/
/ The only stupid question is the unasked one   /


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Re: so what? Re: Debian development modem

[Raul Miller]

Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This again means that we need to encourage more maintainers to work on
> multi-package-solution and to skip the 300-mini-cathedral-situation.
> Only few people are working on package that are not maintained by
> them, this needs to be re-considered.

I'm not sure that can be completely avoided. "The Cathedral and the
Bazaar" doesn't replace "The Mythical Man Month", it supplements it.

As I recall, development has an exponential communications cost as the
group size increases, while testing is highly parallelizable.

In other words, I think we need a small "danger team" to go in and put
on the last few bits of spit and polish we need for release.

-- 
Raul


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