Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
Previously David Starner wrote: Speed reasons - gzip is significantly faster than bzip2, which matters for old ix86 (x=3,4) and m68k machines which run Debian. bzip2 also uses more memory which can be an issue with lowmemory systems. Wichert. -- _ / Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D | pgpWvQFXMKdqx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
Previously Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: * Every day a script will run thru the list of packages marked as Orphaned. For every package ( important) which has been orphaned longer than 28 days, a bug will be submitted against ftp.debian.org requesting the package to be moved to project/orphaned. How do you plan to handle packages that are used by others? For example your list contains dpkg-scriptlibs in the list of packages that should be moved to orphanded, but that will have the nice side effect of breaking all tetex packages since they use dpkg-perl. Wichert. -- _ / Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D | pgpBaFPbH9cUK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: My recent bug's and continuing effort to debconf-ize Debian
On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 11:34:44AM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: But then it might interrupt the installation process. Just as debconf asks all of the preinst questions before any of the packages have started unpacking, it would be nice to be able to defer any questions that *have* to wait for the postinst until the very end, when all of the packages have been installed. a) choose non-interactive and no debconf questions get asked. You can dpkg-reconfigure any package you need to [...] No, this isn't what I was talking about. There was a discussion recently (should I try to track down the message numbers?) about some packages which could not use the debconf database setup, for example because the answers were too sensitive (passwords). For these, the only option was to use interactive questions during the postinst. What I am asking is whether we can devise a way to handle these special cases, by allowing these interactive questions to all be handled at the end. I don't know whether there is any way to get rid of them entirely; we should look back at the above-mentioned thread to answer that one. Julian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Julian Gilbey, Dept of Maths, QMW, Univ. of London. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux Developer, see http://www.debian.org/~jdg Donate free food to the world's hungry: see http://www.thehungersite.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
Speed reasons - gzip is significantly faster than bzip2, which matters for old ix86 (x=3,4) and m68k machines which run Debian. bzip2 also uses more memory which can be an issue with lowmemory systems. I had a 486 with 8Mb and with `bzip2 -s' I could use bzipped packages perfectly... are we talking about 4 Mb mechines? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My recent bug's and continuing effort to debconf-ize Debian
Julian == Julian Gilbey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Julian On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 11:34:44AM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: But then it might interrupt the installation process. Just as debconf asks all of the preinst questions before any of the packages have started unpacking, it would be nice to be able to defer any questions that *have* to wait for the postinst until the very end, when all of the packages have been installed. a) choose non-interactive and no debconf questions get asked. You can dpkg-reconfigure any package you need to [...] Julian No, this isn't what I was talking about. There was a Julian discussion recently (should I try to track down the Julian message numbers?) about some packages which could not use Julian the debconf database setup, for example because the Julian answers were too sensitive (passwords). For these, the Julian only option was to use interactive questions during the Julian postinst. I just tried less /var/lib/debconf/debconf.db and got a Permission denied. /var/lib/debconf is 700, owner root. So the passwords thing is no problem. Any others? Okay, and even if... why can't debconf have a flag don't store answer in DB? Store it somewhere the package tells us (700 owner root of course). *If* there's some *valid* reason not to store something in a *root-readable* DB, make it put it somewhere else. In the end, it *gets stored anyway. Bye, J PS: There may be packages that take a password and store it encrypted (like Zope does). But even then... (temporarily) putting it into a root-only file? Come on... PPS: I saw that discussion you're referring to, Julian... now I might have glossed over it too quickly (or I may have missed some mails), but I don't recall seeing any (good) reasons being mentioned. -- Jürgen A. Erhard[EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326 MARS: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard/mars_index.html Yesterday's the past and tomorrow's the future. Today is a gift -- which is why they call it the present. -- Butterfly pgplwuoSwQz42.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 06:55:16PM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: The follwing packages need a new maintainer: ... mctools-lite (69638), 12 days old ... rosegarden (68189), 33 days old ... My sponsor (Javier Fernandez-Sanguino) is checking both packages, and we hope they will be uploaded soon. Enrique. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Today, Marcelo E Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of them look DFSG-Free to me. Nonetheless, SMIL _is_ a nice tool to produce something multimedia-ish. Hopefully, somebody writes a DFSG-Free player in the near future -- but it won't be me, I don't need it (-: JFTR: http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/ It's GPLed. Hey, that's great! But, on a second glance, the thing ships with a GPLed KDE thingy. Rats! But it was well worth the try. Anyone want to poke it with a 10-foot-pole (speak: ITP it)? (-; Marcelo regards, -- Andreas Stefan Fuchs in Real Life aka [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] in NNTP and SMTP, antifuchsin IRCNet and Relf Herbstfresser, Male 1/2 Elf Priest in ADD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:56:59AM +0200, Enrique Robledo Arnuncio wrote: On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 06:55:16PM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: The follwing packages need a new maintainer: ... mctools-lite (69638), 12 days old ... rosegarden (68189), 33 days old ... My sponsor (Javier Fernandez-Sanguino) is checking both packages, and we hope they will be uploaded soon. [snip] Which version of rosegarden are you packaging? the existing version is very old and quite buggy. Upstream appears to be working on a new version which seems to be taking a while to materialize... any info so far? I'm very interested in a newer version because the current one is too buggy and has too many limitations that I find it very frustrating to use. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only usable MIDI notator that runs on Linux, thus far... unless you know of another one? I'd love to know. T -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIDI Notation Software
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 07:29:14PM -0400, H. S. Teoh wrote: Which version of rosegarden are you packaging? the existing version is very old and quite buggy. Upstream appears to be working on a new version which seems to be taking a while to materialize... any info so far? I'm very interested in a newer version because the current one is too buggy and has too many limitations that I find it very frustrating to use. Well, I am packaging the old version. Its latest upstream patch-level is not that old (September'99), but I think it is just bug fixes. The new version (3.0) is being written from scratch, and is still in very early development, (it has been like that for some years). From the Readme: This is the development tree for Rosegarden 3.0. You will not find any working applications here. This is all early development code; it should build, but won't build into anything useful. Explore at your own risk. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only usable MIDI notator that runs on Linux, thus far... unless you know of another one? I'd love to know. I know there are others being developed, but I have not tried them yet. None of them is in debian: Brahms: http://lienhard.desy.de/mackag/homepages/jan/Brahms/ It is GPL, and looks really nice, but uses Qt :( NoteEdit: http://rnvs.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~ja/noteedit/noteedit.html Seems smaller. Also Qt. I have not found any other free graphical MIDI notator for linux. Maybe we will have to wait for rosegarden 3.0... Enrique. T -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MIDI Notation Software
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:12:40AM +0200, Enrique Robledo Arnuncio wrote: I have not found any other free graphical MIDI notator for linux. Maybe we will have to wait for rosegarden 3.0... jazz++ has been free software for a few months now. from the home page: http://www.jazzware.com/ JAZZ++ is a full featured, audio capable midi sequencer for Linux and Windows. JAZZ++ offers a lot of functions normally only found in expensive sequencer software, and is used by professionals and hobby musicians all over the world. Site news * Version 4.1.4 beta available * More Jazz++ music (Pavel Geyev and Gilles van Eeden) * Listen to the Jazz++ music of Andreas Voss * Version 4.1.3 status upgraded to stable (Linux binaries and source) * Version 4.1.3 beta available * Music made with Jazz++ * Rhythm audio samples now MP3 format Open Source JAZZ++ is here! We are happy to announce version 4 of the Jazz++ midi sequencer. Jazz++ is now distributed under an Open Source license (GNU GPL). This applies to versions for both Linux and Windows platforms. Among the news in version 4.x is an ALSA driver for Linux. We now invite the Open Source community to help make Jazz++ an even better product. Open Source not only means that the software is free to use, it also gives the users freedom to enhance the software and correct bugs. In general this leads to a better product and a dedicated user community. We sincerely hope this will happen also to Jazz++ and that all users will benifit from this change of license terms. As a contributing developer, you can really make a difference! craig -- craig sanders -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MIDI Notation Software
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:31:03PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:12:40AM +0200, Enrique Robledo Arnuncio wrote: I have not found any other free graphical MIDI notator for linux. Maybe we will have to wait for rosegarden 3.0... jazz++ has been free software for a few months now. from the home page: This has some problems building from source that I couldn't figure out, but their binary tarball works pretty well, and is much more stable than rosegarden (I seem to only want to do things in rosegarden that cause segfaults). If I didn't maintain X, I'd definitely be packaging Jazz++. -- G. Branden Robinson | Debian GNU/Linux| // // // / / [EMAIL PROTECTED] | EI 'AANIIGOO 'AHOOT'E http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | pgpSX5ouZhvaA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 10:58:14PM -0400, Ben Collins wrote: Anyway, I'm wondering, is there any need for a website redesign or any icon needs? I have Adobe Photoshop and I am a expert at it. I use Macromedia Dreamweaver and I would LOVE to help this great project. I would love to be on a website redesign team or Icon Creation Team. Does anyone know where I can go to help on this or who I should contact? Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the website, there will be hell to pay :) Agreed. There are several criteria for the website, unspoken, but surely everyone knows this: a) It needs to be browsable by text-only browsers without going through some click here for cheezy text only site. Agreed. CSS seems to make graphical pages a little easier to make text friendly. b) Graphics need to be created in Gimp (is there any other free graphics program around worth its salt?). Why? I think this is unnecessarily anal. Not that you would know if a graphic was done with gimp or photoshop anyway. c) Geared towards informational and structural concerns rather than eye candy. When I go to the Debian webpage, I want answers and information, and I think most people feel the same way. Yes, that is essential. Making information available is the single most important thing the website is there for. Nice web pages are good for Debian's image, but if the information isn't there the fluff isn't worth it. That doesn't mean what the pages look like isn't important, it's just less important than what's on them. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Delenn I wouldn't make it through 24 hours before I'd be firing up the grill and slapping a few friends on the barbie. spacemoos Why would you slap friends with barbies, thats kinda kinky -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 07:48:54PM -0300, Nicol?s Lichtmaier wrote: Speed reasons - gzip is significantly faster than bzip2, which matters for old ix86 (x=3,4) and m68k machines which run Debian. bzip2 also uses more memory which can be an issue with lowmemory systems. I had a 486 with 8Mb and with `bzip2 -s' I could use bzipped packages perfectly... are we talking about 4 Mb mechines? Do you realize how much ram dpkg itself already takes up? Add that to bzip2 and you are definitely swapping, even with 8 megs of RAM. Heck, doing this, and you need 16megs *free* physical memory just to keep from swapping. As for 4 meg machines, the current gzip setup is almost unbearable just for that (believe me, I have an 8 meg system, and I don't want to even imagine a 4 meg system trying to handle dpkg, much less dpkg+bzip2). Ben -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
Speed reasons - gzip is significantly faster than bzip2, which matters for old ix86 (x=3,4) and m68k machines which run Debian. bzip2 also uses more memory which can be an issue with lowmemory systems. I had a 486 with 8Mb and with `bzip2 -s' I could use bzipped packages perfectly... are we talking about 4 Mb mechines? Do you realize how much ram dpkg itself already takes up? Add that to bzip2 and you are definitely swapping, even with 8 megs of RAM. Heck, doing this, and you need 16megs *free* physical memory just to keep from swapping. As for 4 meg machines, the current gzip setup is almost unbearable just for that (believe me, I have an 8 meg system, and I don't want to even imagine a 4 meg system trying to handle dpkg, much less dpkg+bzip2). Uhm.. you are right. But it could still be used for Packages.gz and for the source package. Many packages are now being packaged in bz2 upstream (eg. lftp, one of mine)... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 11:49:32PM -0300, Nicol?s Lichtmaier wrote: Speed reasons - gzip is significantly faster than bzip2, which matters for old ix86 (x=3,4) and m68k machines which run Debian. bzip2 also uses more memory which can be an issue with lowmemory systems. I had a 486 with 8Mb and with `bzip2 -s' I could use bzipped packages perfectly... are we talking about 4 Mb mechines? Do you realize how much ram dpkg itself already takes up? Add that to bzip2 and you are definitely swapping, even with 8 megs of RAM. Heck, doing this, and you need 16megs *free* physical memory just to keep from swapping. As for 4 meg machines, the current gzip setup is almost unbearable just for that (believe me, I have an 8 meg system, and I don't want to even imagine a 4 meg system trying to handle dpkg, much less dpkg+bzip2). Uhm.. you are right. But it could still be used for Packages.gz and for the source package. Many packages are now being packaged in bz2 upstream (eg. lftp, one of mine)... For Sources and Packages that's fine, IMO, but your assertion about source packages is a little misleading. apt-get source for gcc and glibc[1]. Check the tarballs internally. You'll notice they are .tar.bz2. This is done with little loss of space over straight .bz2. A new format and hacking is not needed for you to use this already (packages doing this need to Build-Depend on bzip2). Ben [1]: Also check openldap, shadow and pam for the same style setups. Yes, it's sort of a hack, but it's a clean hack and the system provides much more than a way to package up .bz2 tarballs. -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MIDI Notation Software
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 09:07:42PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:31:03PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:12:40AM +0200, Enrique Robledo Arnuncio wrote: I have not found any other free graphical MIDI notator for linux. Maybe we will have to wait for rosegarden 3.0... jazz++ has been free software for a few months now. from the home page: This has some problems building from source that I couldn't figure out, but their binary tarball works pretty well, and is much more stable than rosegarden (I seem to only want to do things in rosegarden that cause segfaults). i can't recall if i got it to compile or not...i definitely played with their binary tarball a few months ago but put it on the back-burner until i figure out why my MC-303 just displays Er 2 whenever i run a midi program on my pc. oddly enough, i can actually make the MC-303 play sounds with a little perl script i wrote (using a perl MIDI module i found on cpan), but i can't get rosegarden or jazz or anything else to actually drive it. the 303 still displays the error code, but plays stuff anyway. very odd. one of these days i'll have time to look into it. for now, it's not high on my list of priorities. jazz++ looks like a good program though. it would be good to see it packaged for debian. craig -- craig sanders -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
I had a 486 with 8Mb and with `bzip2 -s' I could use bzipped packages perfectly... are we talking about 4 Mb mechines? Do you realize how much ram dpkg itself already takes up? Add that to bzip2 and you are definitely swapping, even with 8 megs of RAM. Heck, doing this, and you need 16megs *free* physical memory just to keep from swapping. As for 4 meg machines, the current gzip setup is almost unbearable just for that (believe me, I have an 8 meg system, and I don't want to even imagine a 4 meg system trying to handle dpkg, much less dpkg+bzip2). Uhm.. you are right. But it could still be used for Packages.gz and for the source package. Many packages are now being packaged in bz2 upstream (eg. lftp, one of mine)... For Sources and Packages that's fine, IMO, but your assertion about source packages is a little misleading. apt-get source for gcc and glibc[1]. Check the tarballs internally. You'll notice they are .tar.bz2. This is done with little loss of space over straight .bz2. A new format and hacking is not needed for you to use this already (packages doing this need to Build-Depend on bzip2). That kind of packaging is a hack, and a very user unfriendly one. I'd like to have native bzip support, to have a lftp.orig.bz2. [1]: Also check openldap, shadow and pam for the same style setups. Yes, it's sort of a hack, but it's a clean hack and the system provides much more than a way to package up .bz2 tarballs. I'll avoid that hack as much as I can... =) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: /bin/ksh as a default POSIX shell
On 2903T152152-0500, Branden Robinson wrote: -BEGIN PGP MESSAGE- ... -END PGP MESSAGE- gpg: encrypted with 1024-bit ELG-E key, ID 22CC9EBE, created 2000-08-17 Ulf Jaenicke-Roessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg: no secret key for decryption available gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available Um, why send such a message to a widely-read mailing-list? -- %%% Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://www.iki.fi/gaia/ %%% -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
libgd1 vs. libgd1g
Hi! I've noticed a serious problem with libgd1 (or, libgd1g) during the last month. And I don't really know what to do about. webalizer and linuxconf now depends on libgd1g, which currently isn't anymore available from our ftp-servers. And on the other hand libgd-perl depends on libgd1, which seems to be a more recent version of libgd1g (I think both provide the same thing?) libgd1 conflicts with libgd1g... So, what is to be done, where is the problem here? Should libgd-perl be recompiled against libgd1g, which seems to be an older version and not available on the servers; or should be webalizer and linuxconf be recompiled against libgd1 (which they were about a month ago or so, IIRC). So, my main question is - why those 2 packages? And furthermore, against which packages should I file bugreports to solve this (if it's really needed and the DM of those packages don't read this)? Thanks for any hints! Alfie -- I predict that today will be remembered until tomorrow! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 06:55:16PM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: mpsql (68054), 33 days old How on earth did this make it onto your list. I cannot remeber orphaning it at all. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael@Fam-Meskes.De Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire! Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: /bin/ksh as a default POSIX shell
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:54:25AM +0300, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote: Um, why send such a message to a widely-read mailing-list? As a joke... -- G. Branden Robinson | Psychology is really biology. Debian GNU/Linux| Biology is really chemistry. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Chemistry is really physics. http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | Physics is really math. pgpamP5lFzUvj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
Sergey I. Golod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bas Zoetekouw wrote: Thus spake Sergey I. Golod ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Why apt/dpkg doesn't use bzip2 for Packages file? -rw-r--r--1 root root 749427 Sep 3 00:56 Packages.bz2 -rw-r--r--1 root root 1024180 Sep 3 00:56 Packages.gz It's about 25% can be saved in download. Yeah, but I guess it would take about twice the time to unpack. Please don't do that to my poor 486 :-(( But extra size = extra traffic = extra money, that's worse. Unpack no cost at all (except you time, ofcourse). These days, my time costs a lot more than my connectivity. I'm lucky enough to have a not-too-badly-obsolete machine at home, and even it creaks quite a bit under the load dpkg puts on it with over 1500 packages installed. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
Michael Meskes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 06:55:16PM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: mpsql (68054), 33 days old How on earth did this make it onto your list. I cannot remeber orphaning it at all. please do close bug #68054 if the package is no longer up for adoption. The number after the package name is the bug number on the BTS. If anyone else who notices that any information on this list is wrong, please go ahead a fix it. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ As to how the information got there, the old WNPP database had this package tagged as up for adoption, with you as the maintainer. Yes, the wording on this report needs improvement. Thanks, Marcelo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#70269: automatic build fails for potato
On Fri 01 Sep 2000, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote: What about for users who want to rebuild the package for whatever reasons? Many times you get half way through some huge package and it craps out because you didn't have some esoteric header file or library. Build-depends is invluable for avoiding those kinds of annoyances. It would be useful if dpkg-buildpackage checked it then. I thought it did, and exactly what you describe (crapping out) happened, even though there _were_ build-depends. That sucked to the extreme (yes, it was a huge package and yes, it happened near the end). Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:55:29AM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: please do close bug #68054 if the package is no longer up for adoption. The number after the package name is the bug number on It is up for adoption but this is not the same as orphaned by any means. ... As to how the information got there, the old WNPP database had this package tagged as up for adoption, with you as the maintainer. Yes, the wording on this report needs improvement. As the report says: The maintainer of this package has stated his intention to orphan it, but he is still maintaining it. I'm stressing the still maintaining part of this sentence. Why on earth is a package like that moved to orphaned? And who decided to treat these packages like those who are really orphaned, which no one actively maintains? I will not close the bug since the package can be adopted but I will keep it unless it is. It appears that you are mixing stuff here that is different and should be treated differently. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael@Fam-Meskes.De Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire! Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sound config broken in 2.2.17 ???
Hello all, Two colleagues and myself have tried to get sound working on 2.2.17 systems with Potato. [I have also tried on a Woody system] Kernel builds - sound modules aren't there. Devices in /dev are all there OK. If the soundcard drivers are built into the kernel - all appears OK - cat /dev/sndstat gives expected results - bplay and other apps can't find /dev/dsp. Sound card here is genuine SB16 Pro (ISA) from Creative - one of the others is ESS/Maestro Clues anyone - make-kpkg seems to be showing a bit of debugging and indicates that some modules may not have been built?? Thanks for all, Andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
Hi, Michael Meskes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:55:29AM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: please do close bug #68054 if the package is no longer up for ^^ adoption. The number after the package name is the bug number on It is up for adoption but this is not the same as orphaned by any means. | The follwing packages need a new maintainer: | ... | mpsql (68054), 33 days old | ... | ... | The following packages are orphaned but still in the archive. Unless | they are adopted before they are 28 days orphaned, it will be requested | that they are moved into project/orphaned: Instead of the first line, will: | The following packages are up for adoption, please contact the current | maintainer for more information: do? (with the current maintainer's email listed next to them) Thanks, Marcelo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X and runlevels
(Sorry if this has been discussed earlier, and/or this is the wrong list...) How come Debian don't have a non-X runlevel, like some other distributions, in the default configuration? I think this would be pretty convenient. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 10:32:07AM +0200, Per Lundberg wrote: (Sorry if this has been discussed earlier, and/or this is the wrong list...) How come Debian don't have a non-X runlevel, like some other distributions, in the default configuration? I think this would be pretty convenient. perhaps because in the default configuration there is no display manager, and thus no automatic runage of X. also debian believes in leaving the runlevel configuration to the admin to define. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ pgpIC6edoyEDt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Map on debian website - bug in apache?
On Fri 01 Sep 2000, Miquel van Smoorenburg wrote: On http://www.nl.debian.org/devel/developers.loc , there's supposed to be a jpeg of a world map with debian developers. On the main website, www.debian.org, there is. It seems that the .nl webserver is interpreting the filename developers.map.jpeg as a .map image-map file according to this error: It sounds like it's not recognizing the .jpeg, and using .map instead? Is .jpeg a recognized extension for .jpg? Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ITP lame
LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder I'm surprised that lame hasn't been packaged already. Was it discussed and rejected previously? Original source available from http://www.sulaco.org/mp3 Licence is 100% GPL'ed code since May 2000 There is a possible problem with the Fraunhoffer (sp?) patent on mp3 but I don't know much about the implications of that. comments welcomed etc, johno -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 10:15:42AM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: | The follwing packages need a new maintainer: | ... | mpsql (68054), 33 days old I'm sorry, but I don't have the original mail anymore. But I thought it said the packages including mpsql will be moved to project/orphaned. If I misread that please take my apologies, if I didn't I still don't understand why it is moved. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael@Fam-Meskes.De Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire! Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: intent to package countrycodes
On Sun 03 Sep 2000, Dr. Guenter Bechly wrote: I intend to package Country Codes 1.0.3, a text-based ISO3166 country code finder (yes, I know there is a Perl module that does the same, but this little tool is easier and more flexible). The package is actually already made and lintian clean. It can be downloaded from http://www.bechly.de/debian/. I've had a quick look. The orig.tar.gz is 17k, and the diff.gz is 15k ?! I see you have all the debian/*.ex files that the helper make script creates; removing those will help greatly in reducing the size of the diff; they are examples after all, and if you haven't used those examples, there's not much point in leaving them in the diff (save them somewhere else if you want to refer to them at a later stage). I also see lines such as: --- countrycodes-1.0.3.orig/common.c +++ countrycodes-1.0.3/common.c @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ in your diff, meaning the diff is creating those files completely. If there wasn't any source, only data, in the orig.tar.gz, then perhaps you should make two packages: one with the data, and one with the (your) software. However, I see: --- countrycodes-1.0.3.orig/iso3166.c +++ countrycodes-1.0.3/iso3166.c @@ -0,0 +1,631 @@ +/* + ISO 3166 Country Codes program + + Country Codes + + Copyright (C) 1999, 2000 Diego Javier Grigna [EMAIL PROTECTED] This means a file of 631 lines is created by your diff, with someone else's copyright. So, I'm guessing the package copies (or links?) source files from a subdir to the top dir. In that case, the clean target in debian/rules should undo those actions so that the diff is as small as possible. Until these basic packaging paradigms are mastered, I don't think this package is fit for uploading yet. Perhaps you should ask for more help in debian-mentors (which is for helping new maintainers)? Good luck, Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
EB == Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EB perhaps because in the default configuration there is no EB display manager, and thus no automatic runage of X. Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. To get it to boot up in console mode, you have to manually remove the symlinks in your runlevel's script directory. The next time you update the display manager, you'll have to do this again. It is not really convenient. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Map on debian website - bug in apache?
Paul Slootman wrote: On http://www.nl.debian.org/devel/developers.loc , there's supposed to be a jpeg of a world map with debian developers. On the main website, www.debian.org, there is. It seems that the .nl webserver is interpreting the filename developers.map.jpeg as a .map image-map file according to this error: It sounds like it's not recognizing the .jpeg, and using .map instead? Is .jpeg a recognized extension for .jpg? Yes, I think so. From IANA's description[*] of the image/jpeg media type: ... 2. File extension(s) : JPEG JPG JPE ... Cheers, Remco. [*] http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/media-types/image/jpeg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Per Lundberg wrote: Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. To get it to boot up in console mode, you have to manually remove the symlinks in your runlevel's script directory. The next time you update the display manager, you'll have to do this again. It is not really convenient. Not quite, if you leave at least one symlink somewhere in the rc?.d directories, your config should be left alone (i.e. the symlinks won't be redone). See the update-rc.d manpage: : INSTALLING INIT SCRIPT LINKS :When run with either the defaults, start, or stop options, :update-rc.d makes links /etc/rcrunlevel.d/[SK]NNname :pointing to the script /etc/init.d/name, : :If any files /etc/rcrunlevel.d/[SK]??name already exist :then update-rc.d does nothing. This is so that the system :administrator can rearrange the links, provided that they :leave at least one link remaining, without having their :configuration overwritten. Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 11:30:06AM +0200, Per Lundberg wrote: EB == Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EB perhaps because in the default configuration there is no EB display manager, and thus no automatic runage of X. Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. To get it to boot up in is that not what you wanted when you installed *dm ? console mode, you have to manually remove the symlinks in your runlevel's script directory. The next time you update the display manager, you'll have to do this again. It is not really convenient. no there not, the symlinks are only restored if ALL of them were removed (that is your removed the link from runlevel 0 - 6) and if you did that why not just apt-get --purge remove *dm ? at least that is how update-rc.d works on all 5 debian systems i work with. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ pgpToRWUOqvmi.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 11:30:06AM +0200, Per Lundberg wrote: [...] To get it to boot up in console mode, you have to manually remove the symlinks in your runlevel's script directory. The next time you update the display manager, you'll have to do this again. It is not really convenient. Upgrading xdm should not affect the links in /etc/rc?.d as update-rc.d (called in the postinst) is a no-op if any links for the script already exist. Regards, -- Brendan O'Deabod@compusol.com.au Compusol Pty. Limited (NSW, Australia) +61 2 9809 0133 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
EB == Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. EB is that not what you wanted when you installed *dm ? Maybe, but having the option to get into console mode too would be nice. Sometimes, you might not want X to start up when you reboot. (I don't do this very often, but I know there are people that do) EB no there not, the symlinks are only restored if ALL of them EB were removed Are you *absolutely* sure? The reason I ask is because I've been having this exact problem with gpm lately. I like to start it occasionally, because it interfers with my X configuration, so I use to remove the symlinks. Each and every time gpm is updated (two times the last week), they have been brought back to life. Pretty annoying, if you ask me. (This is a woody system) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000, John O Sullivan wrote:
I'm surprised that lame hasn't been packaged already. Was it discussed and
rejected previously?
You're right about the Fraunhofer problem. See the WNPP page at
http://www.debian.org/doc/prospective-packages.html (at the bottom).
Sam.
--
Samuel Hocevar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.via.ecp.fr/~sam/
1024D/29499F61 1999-04-221155 4B19 A50F 1136 6E60 A499 7CF3 F5AF 2949 9F61
dig goret.org @zoy.org axfr \
| perl -e 'for(sort()){print pack(H32,$1) if(/^c..\.(\w+)/)}' | gzip -d
--
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WARNING: potato has horrible broken locales
Hi, Some time ago I discoverd a problem with sort (from textutils). It doesn't work for me :(. Maintainger of textutils package wrote me that is problem only with my (pl_PL) locale. After that he discovered that even en_AU locale is broken. This bug (#69544) has been reassigned to libc6. Today I've trying (in bash): ls /dev/tty[a-z]0 and answer has unexpected /dev/ttyI0 and /dev/ttyS0 followed by /dev/tty[a-z]0 entries. Than I wrote simple script (attached at the end) to generate file with characters from to 0377 range (one per line with octal number, like: c101=A). Than it seeks (using grep) for [a-c] range with all locales (locale -a) and counts lines. Only locales listed below give count=3 (this may be also not correct): C ca cs da de el en eo eo_EO es es_AR es_DO es_GT es_HN es_MX es_PA es_PE es_SV et eu fi fr ga gl gl_ES hr hu id it ja ja_JP.sjis ja_JP.ujis japanese japanese.euc ko lt nl no [EMAIL PROTECTED] pl POSIX pt ro ru sk sl sr sv tr uk wa X zh zh_CN zh_TW.Big5 All other give different values. For 'pl_PL' count is 15, proper value is 4 (a a_ogonek b c) also 3 (a b c) could be acceptable. 'de' gives 3 but 'de_*' and 'deutsch' give also 20 - as I know proper value is 4 (a a_umlaut b c). I think that even all 'en_*' locales are broken (count=20), proper value should be 3. I'll fill grave bug against libc6 - it breaks all potato - I'm stupid? Please comment. Mirek #!/bin/bash unset LANG unset LC_ALL unset LC_CHARSET unset LC_COLLATE unset LC_CTYPE unset LC_MESSAGES unset LC_MONETARY unset LC_NUMERIC unset LC_TIME for c in `seq 0 3`; do for b in `seq 0 7`; do for a in `seq 0 7`; do echo -e c$c$b$a=\\$c$b$a done; done; done /tmp/char.list for l in `locale -a`; do export LANG=$l c=`grep -a '=[a-c]' /tmp/char.list |wc -l` echo $c $l; done /tmp/lang.list
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Per Lundberg wrote: Are you *absolutely* sure? The reason I ask is because I've been Yes. having this exact problem with gpm lately. I like to start it occasionally, because it interfers with my X configuration, so I use to remove the symlinks. Each and every time gpm is updated (two times Don't remove _all_ the symlinks, leave the K ones. Or move one of the symlinks to rc5.d or whatever. Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WARNING: potato has horrible broken locales
Mirek Kwasniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Today I've trying (in bash): ls /dev/tty[a-z]0 and answer has unexpected /dev/ttyI0 and /dev/ttyS0 followed by /dev/tty[a-z]0 entries. I've seen this comming up a lot of places the past few months. It looks like somebody wants to redefine [a-c] to mean [aAbBcC] instead of [abc]. I don't like this change, but it looks like it's is going to be either posix standard of locale dependent (by posix standard) in the future. It will break scripts, but it doesn't seem like anyone cares about that (Ohhh, I imagine there is a major flamer war going on somewhere). The future proof and locale portable way to do the above is: ls /dev/tty[[:lower:]]0 On pandora I just did the following: $ touch a b c A B C $ echo [[:lower:]] a b c $ echo [[:upper:]] A B C $ echo [a-c] a b c $ -- Peter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 11:43:35AM +0200, Per Lundberg wrote: Maybe, but having the option to get into console mode too would be nice. Sometimes, you might not want X to start up when you reboot. (I don't do this very often, but I know there are people that do) the key is not everyone does it the same way, i personally used to, then realized i *NEVER* booted the system into a different runlevel to avoid X and quit bothering, i am fine with it. there are other software that i do tinker with the symlinks. (*cough* portmap) the thing is debian LETS me. it leaves the decision where it belongs with me. EB no there not, the symlinks are only restored if ALL of them EB were removed Are you *absolutely* sure? The reason I ask is because I've been /me checks, yup im sure. having this exact problem with gpm lately. I like to start it occasionally, because it interfers with my X configuration, so I use to remove the symlinks. Each and every time gpm is updated (two times the last week), they have been brought back to life. Pretty annoying, if you ask me. if that is true (and your only removing SOME of the symlinks not ALL of them) then its a bug and should be filed in the BTS. that is NOT how it is supposed to work. from the update-rc.d man page: If any files /etc/rcrunlevel.d/[SK]??name already exist then update-rc.d does nothing. This is so that the system administrator can rearrange the links, provided that they leave at least one link remaining, without having their configuration overwritten. (This is a woody system) i have a field of potatoes so maybe there is a new bug in woody. either that or gpm is being evil and making the symlinks itself instead of using update-rc.d like its supposed to. also you mean that the symlinks are recreated, not just gpm being restarted right? there is an obnoxious behavior in debian where upgraded packages are started even if they were not running in the first place. (*cough* portmap *cough*) there was a bit of discussion on fixing this but i don't know if its being worked on actively or not. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ pgpGe0PalLsBj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ITP: penguin command
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 03:44:29AM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: only been slightly modified. Penguin Command is completely licensed under the GPL, excluding the music. The problem with the music: it is free distributable but the author does not want it to be changed. Is there any license that conforms to DFSG but does not allow modification of code (=artwork in this case) ? Bernhard -- __ ___ // )___---. \ |,( /`-- `. Bernhard Rieder 13 \/ o\ ( _.-. ,';[EMAIL PROTECTED] |\ /`. \ , / | | \ ' .'`.; | | \.__ _-'.'| |--..,,,\_\ ''' _-'.' ___- ) ''''''---~ pgpf9c3OiWXM6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X and runlevels
EB == Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EB it leaves the decision where it belongs with me. Yeah. I think you're right about this. I just got a little confused with my gpm problems, I guess. EB if that is true (and your only removing SOME of the symlinks EB not ALL of them) In fact, now when I think about it, I realise that I used update-rc.d to get rid of 'em. Sorry, I didn't know about that feature of update-rc.d. In fact, I think it could be argued that the postinst shouldn't recreate the links if the package was already installed. I mean, if they have been removed, it must be for a reason, right? But maybe a postinst script can't detect whether the package was already installed in a clean way? I don't know... EB also you mean that the symlinks are recreated, not just gpm EB being restarted right? I get both; and THIS is really annoying. It shouldn't be restarted if it wasn't running already. EB there was a bit of discussion on fixing this but i don't know EB if its being worked on actively or not. I hope it is. It's definitely a bug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Ethan Benson wrote: also you mean that the symlinks are recreated, not just gpm being restarted right? there is an obnoxious behavior in debian where upgraded packages are started even if they were not running in the first place. (*cough* portmap *cough*) there was a bit of discussion on fixing this but i don't know if its being worked on actively or not. Debhelper (and one of the other helper things) does this, if you don't call dh_installinit with the --no-restart-on-upgrade (or such) option. I guess the reasoning is that (a) you're upgrading in multiuser mode because debian lets you :-) (b) in multiuser mode the daemon was running. It's unfortunate that there's no easy way to find the current runlevel (the usual who -r from Solaris etc. doesn't work), otherwise this piece of code could be used: RL=`who -r` if [ -x /etc/rc$RC.d/S??$PKGNAME ]; then /etc/rc$RC.d/S??$PKGNAME start fi That's ignoring file-rc, unfortunately. Is there an easy way of determining whether a certain init.d script should be started in the current runlevel that works also with file-rc ? Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WARNING: potato has horrible broken locales
On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Peter Makholm wrote: handling of [a-z] discussion snipped ls /dev/tty[[:lower:]]0 Ugh. Whatever happened to lazy unix users? a-z is a lot easier to type than [:lower:] . I'd find it a lot more reasonable if [A-Z] was interpreted as [A-Za-z]. Next step will be renaming ls to List-Directory :-( On pandora I just did the following: $ touch a b c A B C $ echo [[:lower:]] a b c $ echo [[:upper:]] A B C $ echo [a-c] a b c The scary thing (for me :-) is that this also works on Solaris already. At least, with ksh, not in sh. Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
My suggestion for the Packages file is: There's a Packages.bz2 additionally to the Packages.gz . apt downloads by default the Packages.bz2, but you can tell apt to fetch the Packages.gz instead if you do have a slow machine. This solution has the advantage that there are no problems with old versions of apt (the Packages.gz is still present), and if you don't want the .bz2 you can still get the .gz . Yust my 0,02 Adrian -- A No uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a Yes merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Ghandi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: X and runlevels
Hello Paul, Monday, September 04, 2000, 3:01:42 PM, you wrote: PS It's unfortunate that there's no easy way to find the current runlevel PS (the usual who -r from Solaris etc. doesn't work) /sbin/runlevel can be used to find the current runlevel -- Best regards, Michaelmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sound config broken in 2.2.17 ???
4.09.2000 pisze Andrew M.A. Cater ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Two colleagues and myself have tried to get sound working on 2.2.17 systems with Potato. Well, I can't confirm broken sound config. I didn't have any problems. Stock Debian 2.2.17pre source with some usual patches (devfs for example); `make menuconfig'ured (for GUS), make-kpkg kernel_image (as usual); dpkg -i kernel_package; reboot; works. The same for woody. Jubal -- [ Miros/law L Baran, baran-at-knm-org-pl, neg IQ, cert AI ] [ 0101010 is ] [ BOF2510053411, makabra.knm.org.pl/~baran/, alchemy pany ] [ The Answer ] Who's on first? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WARNING: potato has horrible broken locales
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:50:07PM +0200, Peter Makholm wrote: [...] It will break scripts, but it doesn't seem like anyone cares about that (Ohhh, I imagine there is a major flamer war going on somewhere). The future proof and locale portable way to do the above is: ls /dev/tty[[:lower:]]0 On pandora I just did the following: $ touch a b c A B C $ echo [[:lower:]] a b c $ echo [[:upper:]] A B C $ echo [a-c] a b c $ Yes, you have unset|C|POSIX locale. $ touch a b c A B C $ echo [[:lower:]] a b c $ echo [[:upper:]] A B C $ export LC_ALL=pl_PL; $ echo [a-c] a A b B c $ export LC_ALL=en_US; $ echo [a-c] a B b C c :( See what a wonderful sort (from bug my report #69544): $ sort a b a b ,a ,b #a #b gives: a ,a #a a b ,b #b b Mirek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On 4 Sep 00 09:43:35 GMT, Per Lundberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: EB == Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. EB is that not what you wanted when you installed *dm ? Maybe, but having the option to get into console mode too would be nice. Sometimes, you might not want X to start up when you reboot. (I don't do this very often, but I know there are people that do) Isn't ctrl-alt-F[1-6] good enough to get into console mode? In what circumstances whould you not want X to start up on boot if you had installed a *dm? Frank -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: libgd1 vs. libgd1g
Gerfried Fuchs wrote: webalizer and linuxconf now depends on libgd1g, which currently isn't anymore available from our ftp-servers. Not any longer. The newest linuxconf package in woody depends on the new libgd1: Package: linuxconf [...] Version: 1.20r2-1 Depends: netbase (= 3.16-1), logrotate, sysvinit (= 2.77-1), freetype2 (= 1.3.1), libc6 (= 2.1.2), libgd1 (= 1.8.3-3), libjpeg62, libncurses5, libpng2, libstdc++2.10, libxpm4, libz1, xlib6g (= 3.3.6-4) The libgd maintainer decided to drop support for a libc5-based libgd and renamed the libgd1g package to libgd1 (I personally don't think that this was a good idea as it might cause problems during upgrades). -- Stefan Gybas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
[snip] Isn't ctrl-alt-F[1-6] good enough to get into console mode? In what circumstances whould you not want X to start up on boot if you had installed a *dm? In the circumstance when you are serving a flock of dumb clients from a single machine. NCD Xterms for example. In this case you *NEED* a *dm running with network access turned on but the machine itself may not even have a video. This setup is a small percentage of the installed base but it does exist and is used. [snip] -- Anton R. Ivanov ARI2-RIPE mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] IP Design Engineer, Global Architecture Level3 Communications The excuse for delaying today's deliverables is: emissions from GSM-phones /\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ pgpnYbyHOb20Q.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: /bin/ksh as a default POSIX shell
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 01:19:08AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:54:25AM +0300, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote: Um, why send such a message to a widely-read mailing-list? As a joke... Im damned curious.. what did it say? -- Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! pgpvT4x2qPgtH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:48:24PM +0100, Anton Ivanov wrote: [snip] Isn't ctrl-alt-F[1-6] good enough to get into console mode? In what circumstances whould you not want X to start up on boot if you had installed a *dm? In the circumstance when you are serving a flock of dumb clients from a single machine. NCD Xterms for example. In this case you *NEED* a *dm running with network access turned on but the machine itself may not even have a video. This setup is a small percentage of the installed base but it does exist and is used. except this configuration has nothing to do with the runlevel links. you have to alter the configuration file for xdm or whatever to not manage a local X server, but you still need the daemon started at boot, by yes a initscript. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ pgpN2K27doUer.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 11:30:06AM +0200, Per Lundberg wrote: Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. To get it to boot up in console mode, you have to manually remove the symlinks in your runlevel's script directory. The next time you update the display manager, you'll have to do this again. It is not really convenient. Alternatively, you could edit /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers (or its equivalent for other display managers) and disable the servers on the local display. xdm can still be used to manage remote sessions without running a local server. If you don't want to run xdm at all, why would you install it? Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:25:39AM -0300, Nicol?s Lichtmaier wrote: I had a 486 with 8Mb and with `bzip2 -s' I could use bzipped packages perfectly... are we talking about 4 Mb mechines? Do you realize how much ram dpkg itself already takes up? Add that to bzip2 and you are definitely swapping, even with 8 megs of RAM. Heck, doing this, and you need 16megs *free* physical memory just to keep from swapping. As for 4 meg machines, the current gzip setup is almost unbearable just for that (believe me, I have an 8 meg system, and I don't want to even imagine a 4 meg system trying to handle dpkg, much less dpkg+bzip2). Uhm.. you are right. But it could still be used for Packages.gz and for the source package. Many packages are now being packaged in bz2 upstream (eg. lftp, one of mine)... For Sources and Packages that's fine, IMO, but your assertion about source packages is a little misleading. apt-get source for gcc and glibc[1]. Check the tarballs internally. You'll notice they are .tar.bz2. This is done with little loss of space over straight .bz2. A new format and hacking is not needed for you to use this already (packages doing this need to Build-Depend on bzip2). That kind of packaging is a hack, and a very user unfriendly one. I'd like to have native bzip support, to have a lftp.orig.bz2. lol, whoever said our source package format was user friendly to begin with? [1]: Also check openldap, shadow and pam for the same style setups. Yes, it's sort of a hack, but it's a clean hack and the system provides much more than a way to package up .bz2 tarballs. I'll avoid that hack as much as I can... =) Your choice, your loss :) The format I use has saved my countless hours and tons of headaches. -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000, Per Lundberg wrote:
Are you *absolutely* sure? The reason I ask is because I've been
having this exact problem with gpm lately. I like to start it
occasionally, because it interfers with my X configuration
You might be interested in the `-R' option of gpm then.
Sam.
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Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 11:30:06AM +0200, Per Lundberg wrote: EB == Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EB perhaps because in the default configuration there is no EB display manager, and thus no automatic runage of X. Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. To get it to boot up in console mode, you have to manually remove the symlinks in your runlevel's script directory. The next time you update the display manager, you'll have to do this again. It is not really convenient. I find commenting out the display line in /etc/X11/[xwg]dm/Xservers is sufficient. -- Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Are the noises in my head bothering you? - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! pgpCUwbmMjtHH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:48:24PM +0100, Anton Ivanov wrote: In the circumstance when you are serving a flock of dumb clients from a single machine. NCD Xterms for example. In this case you *NEED* a *dm running with network access turned on but the machine itself may not even have a video. This setup is a small percentage of the installed base but it does exist and is used. Then disable the local display by commenting the server line in /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers -- Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - God's last name is not damn. - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! pgpRRZu4gBgkU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Re[2]: X and runlevels
On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Michael Bravo wrote: Monday, September 04, 2000, 3:01:42 PM, you wrote: PS It's unfortunate that there's no easy way to find the current runlevel PS (the usual who -r from Solaris etc. doesn't work) /sbin/runlevel can be used to find the current runlevel So it does. It just reads /var/run/utmp, like who does, so it should be trivial to add the -r flag to who :-) Thanks, Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: libgd1 vs. libgd1g
Please refrain from Cc:ing me - I _do_ read the lists I'm posting to *sigh* It seems that that can't be said often enough. On 04 Sep 2000, Stefan Gybas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The libgd maintainer decided to drop support for a libc5-based libgd and renamed the libgd1g package to libgd1 (I personally don't think that this was a good idea as it might cause problems during upgrades). Do I interpret this right that I should file a bugreport for recompile against webalizer, then? Thanks for the help. Alfie -- You've been leading a dog's life. Stay off the furniture. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: libgd1 vs. libgd1g
Gerfried Fuchs wrote: The libgd maintainer decided to drop support for a libc5-based libgd and renamed the libgd1g package to libgd1 (I personally don't think that this was a good idea as it might cause problems during upgrades). Do I interpret this right that I should file a bugreport for recompile against webalizer, then? There are already loads of bugreports like that filed against webalizer, because people don't seem to bother checking the existing bugreports before fileing yet another one, and, worse, people are getting angry when you don't reply to their requests within one hour, even if you are 'on leave' as stated on db.debian.org. Webalizer won't be updated till I get back home and settled down, so _please_ don't file any new bugreports with no new information before October 15th or so. Please. Cheers, Remco. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:48:24PM +0100, Anton Ivanov wrote: In the circumstance when you are serving a flock of dumb clients from a single machine. NCD Xterms for example. In this case you *NEED* a *dm running with network access turned on but the machine itself may not even have a video. This setup is a small percentage of the installed base but it does exist and is used. Then disable the local display by commenting the server line in /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers That is exactly what I have done. My fault. Should have described the setup in a bit more detail. The question I answered was what is the case when you need *dm and do not need X. It still does not answer the original question which was about X-only/ non-X runlevel. In other words how to boot in multiuser mode selectively with/without X. Which is quite a sensible question. Example: I had to go into an intermediate single user mode boot on some of my machines after forgetting to turn off xdm after changing video cards. Or during dealing with laptop docking gear. If there was a boot with X disabled and xdm installed it would have made life a bit easier. [snip] Cheers, Brgds, -- Anton R. Ivanov ARI2-RIPE mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] IP Design Engineer, Global Architecture Level3 Communications The excuse for delaying today's deliverables is: the real ttys became pseudo ttys and vice-versa. /\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On 04 Sep 2000, Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also debian believes in leaving the runlevel configuration to the admin to define. Sure - but there is the FHS (I hope that I read it there) that defines what at least runlevel 2 and 3 are for. I would really like to see that Debian complies with the FHS in that case, when it complies to it in the other meanings also, quite strict, even. Just a thought... Alfie -- Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday pgp0SgW8Mx9vM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X and runlevels
Frank writes: Isn't ctrl-alt-F[1-6] good enough to get into console mode? In what circumstances whould you not want X to start up on boot if you had installed a *dm? a) You just made some changes in X that caused it to lock up the display. Magic sysreq got you out alive, but now you would like to boot to a console to fix it. b) Your monitor blew up. You've got a replacement on hand, but it won't work (and may even be damaged) with the current X settings. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Anton Ivanov wrote: Example: I had to go into an intermediate single user mode boot on some of my machines after forgetting to turn off xdm after changing video cards. Or during dealing with laptop docking gear. If there was a boot with X disabled and xdm installed it would have made life a bit easier. Actually, that used to be a problem (I've had that as well, where an incorrectly configured X e.g. for a different card caused an infinite loop of switching to X and back again, so that you never have the chance of switching with alt-ctrl-F1 and staying there). Nowadays xdm detects that the X server is looping, and after a couple of times stops restarting the X server. This has saved me once or twice. Thanks, Branden! (or was it someone else's work?) Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000, Anton Ivanov wrote:
It still does not answer the original question which was about X-only/
non-X runlevel. In other words how to boot in multiuser mode selectively
with/without X. Which is quite a sensible question.
Example:
I had to go into an intermediate single user mode boot on some of
my machines after forgetting to turn off xdm after changing video cards.
Or during dealing with laptop docking gear.
If there was a boot with X disabled and xdm installed it would have
made life a bit easier.
I must admit I don't really understand the problem here. What
prevents you from going back to console mode ? Moreover, even if the X
server has a problem and keeps dying, startAttempts in xdm is set to 4
by default.
Sam.
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Re: X and runlevels
Paul Slootman schrieb: On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Ethan Benson wrote: Debhelper (and one of the other helper things) does this, if you don't call dh_installinit with the --no-restart-on-upgrade (or such) option. I guess the reasoning is that (a) you're upgrading in multiuser mode because debian lets you :-) (b) in multiuser mode the daemon was running. Running start-stop-daemon without --oknodo for restart) would probably also solve the problem (you do set -e, do you?). It would yell if it doesn't find the daemon running and exit. It's unfortunate that there's no easy way to find the current runlevel (the usual who -r from Solaris etc. doesn't work), otherwise this piece of code could be used: RL=`who -r` if [ -x /etc/rc$RC.d/S??$PKGNAME ]; then /etc/rc$RC.d/S??$PKGNAME start fi 14:27:10 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo runlevel N 2 That's ignoring file-rc, unfortunately. Is there an easy way of determining whether a certain init.d script should be started in the current runlevel that works also with file-rc ? Probably we should just make /etc/init.d/foobar restart _not_ start anything if the deamon was not running before. It can be done with little effort there, and works with file-rc. ciao, 2ri -- The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching train. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
Hello. Adrian Bunk schrieb: My suggestion for the Packages file is: There's a Packages.bz2 additionally to the Packages.gz . apt downloads by default the Packages.bz2, but you can tell apt to fetch the Packages.gz instead if you do have a slow machine. This solution has the advantage that there are no problems with old versions of apt (the Packages.gz is still present), and if you don't want the .bz2 you can still get the .gz . I don't understand this hysteria about compressing Packages-files. IMO it would be _much_ better (bandwith and processing-speed wise) to have it uncompressed on the servers and rsync it. How often did you have to download that whole damned 800k Packages.gz of unstable just because one single package was upgraded? apt-move uses rsync to update it's Packages, and it's a real improvement over the sledgehammer method. ciao, 2ri, sitting behind 64k/s ISDN, yawning -- The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching train. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000, Anton Ivanov wrote: It still does not answer the original question which was about X-only/ non-X runlevel. In other words how to boot in multiuser mode selectively with/without X. Which is quite a sensible question. Example: I had to go into an intermediate single user mode boot on some of my machines after forgetting to turn off xdm after changing video cards. Or during dealing with laptop docking gear. If there was a boot with X disabled and xdm installed it would have made life a bit easier. I must admit I don't really understand the problem here. What prevents you from going back to console mode ? Moreover, even if the X server has a problem and keeps dying, startAttempts in xdm is set to 4 by default. Broken hardware. You assume that X and the hardware behave. On some Neomagic clones X does not always die. It screwes it up so bad that neither text nor graphics are available. Same with some ATIs. Similar situation as described by someone else is when the mode settings will actually smoke your monitor. [snip] -- Anton R. Ivanov ARI2-RIPE mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] IP Design Engineer, Global Architecture Level3 Communications The excuse for delaying today's deliverables is: We didn't pay the Internet bill and it's been cut off. /\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian, daemons and runlevels (was: Re: X and runlevels)
On Mon, 04 Sep 2000, Paul Slootman wrote: On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Ethan Benson wrote: It's unfortunate that there's no easy way to find the current runlevel (the usual who -r from Solaris etc. doesn't work), otherwise this piece of code could be used: RL=`who -r` if [ -x /etc/rc$RC.d/S??$PKGNAME ]; then /etc/rc$RC.d/S??$PKGNAME start fi That's ignoring file-rc, unfortunately. Is there an easy way of determining whether a certain init.d script should be started in the current runlevel that works also with file-rc ? I was going to tack this sooner or later (the trust us, we KNOW you want the daemons to start always current state of almost all daemon packages annoys me to no end, and from past flamewars I know I'm not the only one), I think I even warned a few newbies in -user two days ago about this :-) The solution is to *force* all daemon packages to never start a daemon out of its intended runlevel, be it during first install or upgrades (I think this probably requires a policy change). I'd even say this should be a goal for woody, unless we're going to try to get woody out of the door very fast. This would be managed through a simple (for sysvinit. I don't believe it'd be very complex for file-rc either, but I didn't check), standard script/program added to the sysvinit and file-rc packages (and any other future packages of the same sort) which allows a script to query if a certain init.d script should be started [in the current runlevel]. This assumes that the name of a daemon's init.d file is the generic ID for that daemon, but this is the current policy for Debian anyway (it's what you feed to update-rc.d). I should check if the LSB tries to do something like this in a non-braindamaged way, too... just in case. This could (IMHO should, but lets not go there) be expanded later to allow the administrator a bit more control over daemons being started on first install (before he reviewed config files, for example). As long as update-rc.d is called before running this script during package installs and upgrades, it would setup the default runlevels the daemon is supposed to run on. There would be no changes in behaviour of a standard debian install. Any comments? -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh pgp2EXPfRW4Wu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: (Beware helix packages) Re: [CrackMonkey] The right to bare legs
G'day Joey, I'm not subscribed to debian-devel, but wanted to add some comments on this issue after reading the web archives. Because I'm not subscribed, I dunno if my Cc to the list will work, in which case you can forward this to the list as you see fit. IMHO, the entire reason Helix exists as a seperate apt'able source is because debian doesn't have package-pools and testing distribution(s) yet. Untill it does, people like me will only be hurt by moving the helix packages into unstable. Helix is too stable for unstable, and too unstable for stable. As an end user, I use stable because I want stability. However, I also want almost-bleeding-edge of primarily destop stuff (Gnome) because what exists in stable is pretty weak, and all the useful stuff in that area is rapidly developing. I use dselect and apt-get to do my installations and upgrades. If I stick purely with debian, to get the good Gnome stuff I need to add unstable to my sources.list. This means I need to either do a full unstable upgrade, or manualy pick and choose, package by package, what I want upgraded to unstable and what I want to hold back. In the first option, I end up with unstable everything, busting basic system stuff that I can't afford to bust. With the second option, I have the major headache of tracking stable _and_ updating manualy selected parts from unstable, editing sources.list and changing selections each time. By putting debian stable and helix in my sources.list, I get the best of both worlds in a headache free apt-get cronjob; a stable base with the latest-almost-stable desktop. Helix have done a damn good job of making their packages fit nicely onto my stable potato desktop machine. I believe the infamous aalib affair actualy came out of a wishlist bugreport submitted to them by a user; the then frozen potato aalib was too low a version to meet all the helix dependencies. This meant people like me had to pull aalib from unstable before I could install helix. By putting an updated aalib into helix, debian potato users could apt-get helix without that small hickup. It sounds like Helix made their own package rather than grab the one from unstable... probably an un-necisary mistake. Dunno why they did that, maybe so all the helix packages had a helix version number for consistancy? People like me need the helix distribution... as a way of conveniently upgrading our desktop packages to a testing rather than unstable state, while keeping the rest of our system to stable. Package pools would be the easiest way to roll helix into the formal debian distribution and still retain the benefits of treating it like a sepearate apt'able source. A testing distribution would certainly be a step in the right direction, but maybe testing-desktop, testing-webapps, testing-... would be better. Just a few ideas, but these can't happen without package-pools. Migrating to package pools can happen right now... just create the pool area and put any new packages in there that come and simlink to them in unstable. A testing distribution can happen as simlinks to stable, unstable, and pkgpool. As packages get updated, they migrate into the pool area. By the time we release woody, we'll be fully pkg-pooled with no extra load on mirrors. Just my 2c, probably already fully discussed by now :-) -- -- ABO: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info, including pgp key -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
apt and multiple connections
It appears from the apt documentation that it will only ever transfer a maximum of one file per web-server by design (the documentation on Queue-Mode in apt.conf(5) says that it will transfer one file per-host or one per URI type). I would like to transfer several files at a time to enable usable throughput through slow web caches. Is there any way this can be done? If not can this feature be added? Russell Coker -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Qt going GPL ...
Who is going to ITP kde ? I'm dreaming about an apt-get install kde ... And what about Debian GNU/Hurd and Debian Win32 ? They are not Unix (Linux is ?) and only Qt/Unix is GPL ? I think this is a good reason to *not* include KDE in Debian. See http://www.trolltech.com/company/announce/generalpl.html for more infos. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
SH == Samuel Hocevar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The reason I ask is because I've been having this exact problem with gpm lately. I like to start it occasionally, because it interfers with my X configuration SHYou might be interested in the `-R' option of gpm then. Yeah, I guess I should have mentioned that I solved that problem (by doing exactly that) last evening. But thanks anyway. :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt going GPL ...
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:50:03PM +0200, Hugues Marilleau wrote: And what about Debian GNU/Hurd and Debian Win32 ? They are not Unix (Linux is ?) and only Qt/Unix is GPL ? I think this is a good reason to *not* include KDE in Debian. If there is a free version, the rest is a matter of porting. We have lots of unix-specific packages. I don't see a problem here. Richard Braakman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian, daemons and runlevels (was: Re: X and runlevels)
On Mon 04 Sep 2000, Henrique M Holschuh wrote: This would be managed through a simple (for sysvinit. I don't believe it'd be very complex for file-rc either, but I didn't check), standard script/program added to the sysvinit and file-rc packages (and any other future packages of the same sort) which allows a script to query if a certain init.d script should be started [in the current runlevel]. This sounds like the most reasonable way of doing it IMHO. Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.de/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt going GPL ...
Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Hugues Marilleau's letter: Who is going to ITP kde ? I'm dreaming about an apt-get install kde ... And what about Debian GNU/Hurd and Debian Win32 ? They are not Unix (Linux is ?) and only Qt/Unix is GPL ? I think this is a good reason to *not* include KDE in Debian. absolutely *not*. we discriminate on LICENSES not on our personal taste. if Qt/UNIX is GPL you can always fork and port it to, e.g., Win, HURD and other unices. debian is *full* of free software not (yet) ported to other systems. ciao, federico -- Federico Di Gregorio MIXAD LIVE System Programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux Developer Italian Press Contact[EMAIL PROTECTED] A short story: I want you. I love you. I'll miss you. -- Me -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt going GPL ...
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:50:03PM +0200, Hugues Marilleau wrote: Who is going to ITP kde ? I guess RevKrusty may want to put his packages into Debian? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: libgd1 vs. libgd1g
On 2904T14+0200, Remco van de Meent wrote: getting angry when you don't reply to their requests within one hour, even if you are 'on leave' as stated on db.debian.org. Nondevelopers do not have access to the away information in db.d.o. -- %%% Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://www.iki.fi/gaia/ %%% -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ITP magellan
Magellan is a personal information manager under development for KDE 2.0. I am a close friend of the project leader and we've discussed this several times. More details available from http://www.kalliance.org The license is the MIT license. I am not assuming that KDE will or will not make it into Woody. I do think that we can start to package software that depends on QT 2.2/KDE 2.0 since Qt is now dual licensed under the QPL/GPL. http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/2269/1/ johno -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
Lame could be compiled with vorbis support enabled and mp3 disabled,
perhaps, and go into unstable/main. But would we have to excise the
mp3-specific parts in the source package in order to do so?
On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Samuel Hocevar wrote:
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000, John O Sullivan wrote:
I'm surprised that lame hasn't been packaged already. Was it discussed and
rejected previously?
You're right about the Fraunhofer problem. See the WNPP page at
http://www.debian.org/doc/prospective-packages.html (at the bottom).
Sam.
--
Samuel Hocevar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.via.ecp.fr/~sam/
1024D/29499F61 1999-04-221155 4B19 A50F 1136 6E60 A499 7CF3 F5AF 2949
9F61
dig goret.org @zoy.org axfr \
| perl -e 'for(sort()){print pack(H32,$1) if(/^c..\.(\w+)/)}' | gzip -d
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Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:37:20AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Lame could be compiled with vorbis support enabled and mp3 disabled, perhaps, and go into unstable/main. But would we have to excise the mp3-specific parts in the source package in order to do so? This is something I've been curious about since noticing that Lame supports Vorbis: why would you use Lame to encode a Vorbis file when Vorbis comes with its own encoder? Am I missing something? Daniel -- /- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] -\ | This space| We've got nothing to fear but the stuff that we're | | intentionally |afraid of! -- Fluble| |left blank.| | \--- (if (not (understand-this)) (go-to http://www.schemers.org)) / -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for September 1, 2000
Quoting BugScan reporter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Package: nscd (debian/main) Maintainer: Joel Klecker debian-glibc@lists.debian.org 58367 nscd: 'broken pipe' error causes entire box to be unusable [IGNORE] No fix or workaround available for potato (ajt) Is this fixed in woody? I have been forced to shutdown nscd totaly, but I'd like to have this function... -- PLO South Africa Albanian security Clinton CIA jihad World Trade Center quiche Cuba FSF NSA fissionable Nazi 747 [See http://www.aclu.org/echelonwatch/index.html for more about this] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On 04 Sep 2000, Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also debian believes in leaving the runlevel configuration to the admin to define. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gerfried Fuchs) wrote: Sure - but there is the FHS (I hope that I read it there) that defines what at least runlevel 2 and 3 are for. I would really like to see that Debian complies with the FHS in that case, when it complies to it in the other meanings also, quite strict, even. Not quite. The FHS briefly mentions *System V's* runlevel 2 and 3 (along with Berkley's multiuser state). It does not specify anything about runlevels for Linux or any other OS. - Brian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for September 1, 2000
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 06:07:04PM +0200, Turbo Fredriksson wrote: Quoting BugScan reporter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Package: nscd (debian/main) Maintainer: Joel Klecker debian-glibc@lists.debian.org 58367 nscd: 'broken pipe' error causes entire box to be unusable [IGNORE] No fix or workaround available for potato (ajt) Is this fixed in woody? I have been forced to shutdown nscd totaly, but I'd like to have this function... I'm starting testing of glibc 2.1.93 right now. We'll see how it goes. -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned
On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Hi, Hi Marcelo, ... Regarding the severity of the ftp.debian.org bug: important. Rationale: in the general case, packages that managed to get to this state are non-interesting (otherwise they would have been adopted already). That means it's a non maintained package which noone cares about, which in turn means bugreports won't get answered to. IMO, they *should* be removed before release. Counter-arguments for the general case are welcomed. Orphaned packages list debian-qa as maintainer. That means all bug reports go to debian-qa. There are several people that take care of these packages and try to fix bugs (e.g. the recent security problems in ntop). When you say these packages are non-interesting: There's noone who wants to maintain them at the moment. Does this mean that there are no users of these packages? Thanks, Marcelo cu, Adrian -- A No uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a Yes merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Ghandi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Qt2.2 released under the GPL
enough said http://www.trolltech.com now we can move the ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde potato kde2 contrib back home WE WON ! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X and runlevels
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 11:30:06AM +0200, Per Lundberg wrote: EB == Ethan Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EB perhaps because in the default configuration there is no EB display manager, and thus no automatic runage of X. Sure. But whenever you install something that gets you a display manager, your system will boot up in X. To get it to boot up in console mode, you have to manually remove the symlinks in your runlevel's script directory. The next time you update the display manager, you'll have to do this again. It is not really convenient. There seems to be a widespread misunderstanding of update-rc.d's behavior on this issue, no matter how many times it is rehashed on this list. Perhaps it needs to be more prominently documented? -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt2.2 released under the GPL
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:08:33PM +0200, happ wrote: enough said http://www.trolltech.com now we can move the ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde potato kde2 contrib back home The sources have to be recompiled at least with the new Qt. WE WON ! Everyone won :) Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' Debian http://www.debian.org Check Key server Marcus Brinkmann GNUhttp://www.gnu.orgfor public PGP Key [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP Key ID 36E7CD09 http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2
David Starner wrote: On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 05:06:34PM +0600, Sergey I. Golod wrote: David Starner wrote: On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 03:15:10PM +0600, Sergey I. Golod wrote: Hello. Why apt/dpkg doesn't use bzip2 for Packages file? -rw-r--r--1 root root 749427 Sep 3 00:56 Packages.bz2 -rw-r--r--1 root root 1024180 Sep 3 00:56 Packages.gz It's about 25% can be saved in download. Historical reasons - bzip2 is newer than gzip, and didn't exist when the choice was made. ok. now bzip2 exist - first reason is not applied :-) Historical reasons still apply because there is a significant cost in changing historical practices. Standards reasons - gzip is essential: yes on Debian, and is required for dpkg anyway. bzip2 is still priority optional, and it hasn't gained enough usage through other channels to be raised to standard. why we can't change this behavior? At least in woody. I guess it will be changed, according to Ben Collins. The last comment still stands, though - it's not used outside Debian enough to be standard. Speed reasons - gzip is significantly faster than bzip2, which matters for old ix86 (x=3,4) and m68k machines which run Debian. But extra size = extra money, that's more worse. On saved money everybody can upgrade they old machines. Well, I'd like a new laptop then please. The 486 is a little slow with bzip2 There are many more users of debian then there are mirrors, so there are far fewer to get extra space than people who would need new mem/cpu. (So dpkg runs at a remotely decent speed) btw This is coming from someone who pays per minute for phone bill, so don't like big downloads Peter Allen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
Daniel Burrows wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:37:20AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Lame could be compiled with vorbis support enabled and mp3 disabled, perhaps, and go into unstable/main. But would we have to excise the mp3-specific parts in the source package in order to do so? This is something I've been curious about since noticing that Lame supports Vorbis: why would you use Lame to encode a Vorbis file when Vorbis comes with its own encoder? Am I missing something? All vorbis tools are very young, and as most work goes into libvorbis the encoder is missing some features and has a few unwanted features Lame is mature, and although I haven't checked out the ogg encoding bit of lame I guess it has more supported stuff (and fewer bugs) Peter Allen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My recent bug's and continuing effort to debconf-ize Debian
Julian == Julian Gilbey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Julian No, this isn't what I was talking about. There was a discussion Julian recently (should I try to track down the message numbers?) about some Julian packages which could not use the debconf database setup, for example Julian because the answers were too sensitive (passwords). For these, the Julian only option was to use interactive questions during the postinst. Julian What I am asking is whether we can devise a way to handle these Julian special cases, by allowing these interactive questions to all be Julian handled at the end. I don't know whether there is any way to get rid Julian of them entirely; we should look back at the above-mentioned thread to Julian answer that one. There is an additional winkle that also needs to be addressed -- and that is the down time of critical daemons. One may, under the current interactive process, shutdown a daemon (perhaps in preinst), ask questions that needs runtime (post unpack) answers, and restart the daemon, in a short time. Waiting until all packages have been installed and then restarting add to the downtime of that daemon. How important is minimizing the time one leaves pacages in an unconfigured state? apt espescially jumps through hoops to minimize this time. Mind you, I am not against installing post-install hooks into dpkg, and having a means of asking questions at the end -- I am just saying that this may be sub optimal for some packages. I would also like to say that decisions like this should be the users decision -- people should be given a choice, rather than a having us mandate one course or the other. manoj -- Johnson's First Law: When any mechanical contrivance fails, it will do so at the most inconvenient possible time. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP: penguin command
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 12:55:25PM +0200, Bernhard Josef Rieder wrote: On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 03:44:29AM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: only been slightly modified. Penguin Command is completely licensed under the GPL, excluding the music. The problem with the music: it is free distributable but the author does not want it to be changed. Is there any license that conforms to DFSG but does not allow modification of code (=artwork in this case) ? Huh? No, definetly not. Such would, without question, go against the spirt and the letter of the DFSG. -- David Starner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http/ftp: dvdeug.dhis.org It was starting to rain on the night that they cried forever, It was blinding with snow on the night that they screamed goodbye. - Dio, Rock and Roll Children -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: libgd1 vs. libgd1g
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:44:44PM +0200, Remco van de Meent wrote: There are already loads of bugreports like that filed against webalizer, because people don't seem to bother checking the existing bugreports before fileing yet another one, and, worse, people are getting angry when you don't reply to their requests within one hour, even if you are 'on leave' as stated on db.debian.org. Webalizer won't be updated till I get back home and settled down, so _please_ don't file any new bugreports with no new information before October 15th or so. Please. Um, then can someone do an NMU? It should be a recompile. -- David Starner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http/ftp: dvdeug.dhis.org It was starting to rain on the night that they cried forever, It was blinding with snow on the night that they screamed goodbye. - Dio, Rock and Roll Children -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt going GPL ...
Hugues Marilleau [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who is going to ITP kde ? I'm dreaming about an apt-get install kde ... Rather task-kde ;-) (SCNR) Regards, Andy -- Andreas Rottmann | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pfeilgasse 4-6/725 | A-1080 Wien | Austria | Europe http://www.8ung.at/rotty| GnuPG Key: www.8ung.at/rotty/dru.asc Fingerprint | 3E9A C485 49A4 1D17 2EA7 2BA7 22AE C9BF 8173 6279 [one of 78,35% Austrians who didn´t vote for Haider!] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [peter@makholm.net: Re: ITP hodie]]
Christian T. Steigies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What does it do? It has the same functionality as the date (1) program, only... It has it in grammatically correct latin. Couldn't this be done with gettext and the normal date comand? -- Peter - End forwarded message - Can it? Christian Not quite. The problem is that latin uses a rather backwardish addressing of dates. You have three *main days* in a month: Kalends, Nonae and Idus. Kalends is the first day of each month, and Nonae is mostly the 7th, but sometimes the 5th, and Idus mostly the 15th, but sometimes the 13th. The day before a main day is the 'pridie', the day after 'postridie'. All other days are counted downwards - inclusively - to the next main day. Even when the next day is the Kalends of the next month (or in December, the next year). To complicate it even further, the 25th of February in leap years is the 24th, but with the suffix 'bis' (two, second)... It might be doable, but I don't think that it'd be very easily done It would most probably amount to roughly the same effort as I've had in programming hodie. // Mikael Johansson---BeginMessage--- Christian T. Steigies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What does it do? It has the same functionality as the date (1) program, only... It has it in grammatically correct latin. Couldn't this be done with gettext and the normal date comand? -- Peter - End forwarded message - Can it? Christian Not quite. The problem is that latin uses a rather backwardish addressing of dates. You have three *main days* in a month: Kalends, Nonae and Idus. Kalends is the first day of each month, and Nonae is mostly the 7th, but sometimes the 5th, and Idus mostly the 15th, but sometimes the 13th. The day before a main day is the 'pridie', the day after 'postridie'. All other days are counted downwards - inclusively - to the next main day. Even when the next day is the Kalends of the next month (or in December, the next year). To complicate it even further, the 25th of February in leap years is the 24th, but with the suffix 'bis' (two, second)... It might be doable, but I don't think that it'd be very easily done It would most probably amount to roughly the same effort as I've had in programming hodie. // Mikael Johansson ---End Message---
