Re: Bug#171116: ITP: tsclient -- GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

[Graham Wilson]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 01:52:01PM +1100, Andrew Lau wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 10:36:02AM -0600, Graham Wilson wrote:
> > gnome 1 probably is not going to be in sarge, so the difference
> > between gnome 1 and gnome 2 arent going to matter to someone
> > installing sarge.
> 
> But some people do deliberately "apt-cache search GNOME 2" to find new
> GTK+2.0 based software that they want to try out.

but that is the wrong way to do it. instead, try:

 $ grep-available -s Package -F Depends libgnome2-0

or in aptitude (which a great program, daniel), hit the 'r' key when you
are over the 'libgnome2-0' entry.

> Almost every other GNOME 2 application is doing this as well.

thats no good reason. :-)

--
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Re: Bug#171116: ITP: tsclient -- GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

[Andrew Lau]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 12:03:35AM -0600, Graham Wilson wrote:
> > But some people do deliberately "apt-cache search GNOME 2" to find new
> > GTK+2.0 based software that they want to try out.
> 
> but that is the wrong way to do it. instead, try:
> 
>  $ grep-available -s Package -F Depends libgnome2-0

Do you seriously expect a relatively new Debian users armed only with
the knowledge of "apt-cache search foo" to be know this?
 
> thats no good reason. :-)

All the more reason for a GNOME subpolicy I guess so there'd be less
of a point to argue about this. I'd glady follow policy (even a draft
one) anyday, but if it's lacking, convention rules.

Yours sincerely,
Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau

-- 
---
* Andrew "Netsnipe" LauComputer Science & Student Representaive, UNSW *
*   # apt-get into it Debian GNU/Linux Package Maintainer *
**
* GnuPG 1024D/2E8B68BD 0B77 73D0 4F3B F286 63F1  9F4A 9B24 C07D 2E8B 68BD *
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Re: Bug#171116: ITP: tsclient -- GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

[Ari Pollak]

Andrew Lau wrote:
All the more reason for a GNOME subpolicy I guess so there'd be less
of a point to argue about this. I'd glady follow policy (even a draft
one) anyday, but if it's lacking, convention rules.
Especially when the only difference is an extra digit in the description.

Re: [Agnubis] Packaging Agnubis for Debian GNU/Linux

[Andrew Lau]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 12:32:56AM +0100, Rapha?l Bordet wrote:
> However, this is avaible on this apt's uri:
> deb http://debian.linuxfr.net/ ./
> deb-src http://debian.linuxfr.net/ ./
> 
> I've started diacanvas2 but I've got a new job so I'm busy a lot.
> That's all. I'm just thinking we can make this job you and me...

Dear Raphael,
It's great to see you making progress on your ITP. I'll take a
look at the package within a few days and if it's good enough for
Debian or needs some minor touch-ups, then I'll put in some effort in
finding you a sponsor for it. Do you consent to me cleaning DiaCanvas2
up (if necessary) and having it uploaded for you? To clear things up,
do you actually want to maintain Agnubis?

Thanks,
Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau

-- 
---
* Andrew "Netsnipe" LauComputer Science & Student Representaive, UNSW *
*   # apt-get into it Debian GNU/Linux Package Maintainer *
**
* GnuPG 1024D/2E8B68BD 0B77 73D0 4F3B F286 63F1  9F4A 9B24 C07D 2E8B 68BD *
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Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Bernhard R. Link]

* Jim Penny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [021130 18:43]:
> Huh?  If I change the text of the standard, I have changed the standard!
> For example, if I have :
> 0332;COMBINING LOW LINE;Mn;220;NSM;N;NON-SPACING UNDERSCORE
> and change this to
> 0332;NON-COMBINING LOW LINE;Mn;220;NSM;N;SPACING UNDERSCORE
> Then the standard has been changed!
> 
> That is, this file is line after line of character number assignment,
> followed by character name, (and other information).  There is no
> possible change that does not change the standard!
> 
> Hint: (from standard writer's viewpoint) - A standard that can be
> changed by anyone, at anytime, without notice and consultation is not
> a standard, especially if it is a contentious standard that has some
> people seriously upset (i.e, Russian and XJK users).

You seem to understand less and less. If the text is changed, it is no
longer the standard. (A standard can not be changed changing the text,
as the standard is not a local file, but the unmodified text).
What the licence of a standard file may resonable demand is that no
changed text pretends to be the unmodified standard.  

> The text of every standard that I know of is modifiable.  However, it
> normally takes the consent of the standards body and is issued under
> its aegis.  Again, Jim Penny's unicode standard has no value, and even
> debian unicode has very limited appeal.

You are again talkin of the standard. Not the text of the standard.
A standard body can issue a new standard. And trademark laws and other
things can force any new "XYZ standard for UVW" to be issued by some
special entity.

> On the other hand,  if you wish to create a competitor to the unicode 
> standard, say the debicode standard, I see no moral right that you have 
> to incorporate, without permission, the unicode standard.  You should 
> expect to start from scratch!

> Now, IANAL, but I suspect that any unicode editor that reproduced enough
> information from the unicode standard to be useful would be considered a
> derived work.  More importantly, I think that is is arguable that this
> table is, in the terms of the Debian Social Contract,  "necessary for 
> the execution" of a full unicode editor.  (The language of the debian 
> Social Contract is even more general and vague than copyright law!

It talkes about "and to freely use the information supplied in the
creation of products supporting the UnicodeTM Standard."
If this does not include making modifications, then jurisdiction is
more broken then I ever thought. (In my eyes the information should
even not be copyrightable at all, but this point may be discussed).

> In either case, the social contract would place the unicode table into
> non-free; and any editor that depended on the table, or information
> derived from the table (in a copyright sense) in either non-free or
> contrib.

The table itself may be non-free. I doubt any editor will use the file
itself but use modification suitable for the program.

> I have no problem with this result.  But saying that the unicode
> character table cannot be distributed by debian, in spite of specific
> language permitting us to do so, seems a bit extreme.  

If it does not suit for main, then it can not be distributed as part of
debian. (by definition)

> And the
> consequences of this decision will probably seem extreme to many people.
> This example just happens to be particularly cogent; there is no doubt
> it is non-free, there is no doubt it is copyrightable, there is little
> doubt that it is "necessary for the execution" of a substantial corpus
> of programs which are otherwise DFSG free.  These program would
> certainly include unicode editors, and would probably include python,
> perl and ruby.

These "no doubt" are all wrong in my eyes.

MfG,
  Bernhard R. Link

-- 
 sagen wir mal...ich hab alle sourcen in /lost+found/waimea
 gEistiO: [...] Warum lost+found?
 wo haette ich es denn sonst hingeben solln?

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Josip Rodin]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 06:58:56PM +1300, Nick Phillips wrote:
> >  >I'm with Joey on this; last time I tried to find Debian .iso images, it
> >  >was a nightmare. In fact I couldn't find an official woody iso anywhere.
> > This is the way of mirror operators to tell you that you should really
> > use jigdo or even better the mini-images.
> 
> If there are to be no .iso images anywhere (which would suck), then it
> should say in big letters that there are no iso images anywhere.

I've also started editing the web pages to remove this confusing compromise
and to consistently deprecate full images.

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: [Agnubis] Packaging Agnubis for Debian GNU/Linux

[Raphaël Bordet]

Le dim 01/12/2002 à 07:26, Andrew Lau a écrit :
>   It's great to see you making progress on your ITP. I'll take a
> look at the package within a few days and if it's good enough for
> Debian or needs some minor touch-ups, then I'll put in some effort in
> finding you a sponsor for it. Do you consent to me cleaning DiaCanvas2
> up (if necessary) and having it uploaded for you? To clear things up,

I've got latest version of diacanvas2 yesterday. They have set a new
directory named debian in their source. But the version of changelog
missed actual version. I've asked to developpers what to do.
So, If you want to upload anything, just ask me. But, actually,
version is 0.7.0-4 and need to be updated to 0.8.0... 

> do you actually want to maintain Agnubis?

No, I don't. If you want to do this, do it !
My knowledge isn't enough to packaging from cvs sources.
Debian must have a complete Gnome Office.

-- 
Raphaël Bordet
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sponsorship request: tsclient-0.56

[Andrew Lau]

Hey everyone,
I've finished packaging tsclient 0.56 and it's waiting for
someone to sponsor it at . Free from
Lintian errors, but it seems to be incorrectly warning about my
debian-menu xpm as having too many colours even though I've followed
the menu instructions for running it through ImageMagick's
mogrify. Here are the relevant details:

24K tsclient_0.56-1.diff.gz
4.0Ktsclient_0.56-1.dsc
4.0Ktsclient_0.56-1_i386.changes
104Ktsclient_0.56-1_i386.deb
256Ktsclient_0.56.orig.tar.gz

Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 3.0.0), libpanel-applet2-dev (>= 2.0),
pkg-config

Description: Windows Terminal Services (RDP) client for GNOME 2
 tsclient is a GNOME 2 program for remotely accessing Microsoft
 Windows NT Terminal Server and Windows 2000 Terminal Services as
 implemented by the Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP). Using the rdesktop
 program as a backend, tsclient allows users to access and view their
 desktops as stored on remote Windows NT/2000 servers.
 .
 Some of tsclient's features include:
   * A GNOME panel applet to quickly launch saved RDP files
   * Support for most of rdesktop-1.1.0's arguments
   * Reading .rdp files in the MS Unicode format
   * Writing .rdp files in ASCII (for compatibility with the MS
 client)
   * A "RDP picker" which lists .rdp files in ~/.tsclient/ and launches
 rdesktop from the rdp file when selected
   * VNC support as a client only (vncviewer)

Thanks in advanced,
Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau

-- 
---
* Andrew "Netsnipe" LauComputer Science & Student Representaive, UNSW *
*   # apt-get into it Debian GNU/Linux Package Maintainer *
**
* GnuPG 1024D/2E8B68BD 0B77 73D0 4F3B F286 63F1  9F4A 9B24 C07D 2E8B 68BD *
---


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(B
(Bhttp://www.zero-city.com/galoo/index.html$B!!(B 

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Ulrich Eckhardt]

On Saturday 30 November 2002 16:48, Russell Coker wrote:
[snipped rant and threats]
> ... if such messages continue.

You misunderstood the way such things work, you only have to confirm once 
that you intended to send a message. Of course, people should add automated 
systems like the BTS to their whitelist when they use them ...

cheers

Uli

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Russell Coker]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:42, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> On Saturday 30 November 2002 16:48, Russell Coker wrote:
> [snipped rant and threats]
>
> > ... if such messages continue.
>
> You misunderstood the way such things work, you only have to confirm once
> that you intended to send a message. Of course, people should add automated
> systems like the BTS to their whitelist when they use them ...

No I did not misunderstand anything.

The people who run such stupid filters misunderstand the way the Internet 
works.

If you have to send an extra confirmation message every time you send an email 
to someone you haven't communicated with before then it will increase the 
number of messages required by at least 50%.  That is an unreasonable burden 
to place on other people.

The only reason why more people don't complain about this foolishness is 
because there aren't many people stupid enough to want to do it.


PS  If a spam filter blocks a message about an NMU then don't complain about 
not being warned...

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Michael Stone]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 10:42:41PM +0100, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
You misunderstood the way such things work, you only have to confirm once 
that you intended to send a message. 
Still too much. If someone initiates a communication, they should make
sure they can get the reply.
Of course, people should add automated 
systems like the BTS to their whitelist when they use them ...
Exactly. I also drop any communication to people who require a
confirmation when I reply to them.
Mike Stone

Re: Sponsorship request: tsclient-0.56

[Rob Bradford]

On Sun, 2002-12-01 at 12:46, Andrew Lau wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>   I've finished packaging tsclient 0.56 and it's waiting for
> someone to sponsor it at . Free from
> Lintian errors, but it seems to be incorrectly warning about my
> debian-menu xpm as having too many colours even though I've followed
> the menu instructions for running it through ImageMagick's
> mogrify. Here are the relevant details:

Please see:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2002/debian-mentors-200211/msg00276.html

I'll upload this for you later today.

Regards,

Rob
-- 
Rob "robster" Bradford 

Re: RFC for 'Request for Sponsorship' (RFS)

[Andrew Lau]

Dear Rob,

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:00:58PM +, Rob Bradford wrote:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2002/debian-mentors-200211/msg00276.html
I agree that we definitely need an official protocol/place for
filing Request for Sponsors (RFS) and to avoid unnecessary
cross-posting. I suggest that there also needs to be clear guidelines
as to what idle period would be long enough to warrant a repeat or
escalation of the RFS. Should urgent uploads also follow the exact
same procedure?
 Do you think that the exposure and number of developers
subscribed to -mentors is sufficient enough to provide regular and
swift responses?  Mentors is described [1] as "Helping newbie
developers" and some maintainers who have had their packages regularly
sponsored previously have never actually had a 'mentor' as such
assigned to them. Should there be another list for RFS similar in
nature to the WNPP list if you feel -devel should be avoided totally?

[1] http://lists.debian.org/devel.html

> I'll upload this for you later today.

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

Yours sincerely,
Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau

-- 
---
* Andrew "Netsnipe" LauComputer Science & Student Representaive, UNSW *
*   # apt-get into it Debian GNU/Linux Package Maintainer *
**
* GnuPG 1024D/2E8B68BD 0B77 73D0 4F3B F286 63F1  9F4A 9B24 C07D 2E8B 68BD *
---


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Re: RFC for 'Request for Sponsorship' (RFS)

[Tollef Fog Heen]

* Andrew Lau 

|   I agree that we definitely need an official protocol/place for
| filing Request for Sponsors (RFS) and to avoid unnecessary
| cross-posting. I suggest that there also needs to be clear guidelines
| as to what idle period would be long enough to warrant a repeat or
| escalation of the RFS. Should urgent uploads also follow the exact
| same procedure?

as a side note, mihtjel and I have a mostly-working sponsorship
system, and now that I managed to recover the mailbot part of the
system I hope to have it up and running in a little while.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are  : :' :
  `. `' 
`-  

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Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Gerrit Pape]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:35:28PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> The people who run such stupid filters misunderstand the way the
> Internet works.

Maybe you should do a short research on the user of this mail handling
program before saying such.

> If you have to send an extra confirmation message every time you send
> an email to someone you haven't communicated with before then it will
> increase the number of messages required by at least 50%.  That is an
> unreasonable burden to place on other people.

I wrote the software primarily for ezmlm mailing lists, please rethink
your statement with this precondition.

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 08:47:04AM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> Still too much. If someone initiates a communication, they should make
> sure they can get the reply.

Yes that's true.  I usually do this.  I'm not responsible for the
Reply-To header in my message, the BTS mangled the headers and resent
the message; and it still appears to be from me.  I've set
Mail-Followup-To correctly.  I'm not interested in receiving private
copies of mail in public discussions; I know where I post, and keep up
with, in this case, the bug's history, and read debian-devel. I've noted
that you two don't want to communicate with me, be it.

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:35:28PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> PS  If a spam filter blocks a message about an NMU then don't complain
> about not being warned...

No. You receive a delivery notification, and you receive a bounce if the
delivery fails. You know that your message didn't reach the recipient.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 04:48:50PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> For reference, I will not reply to such a message, but I will consider
> putting the entire domain in my spam filter if such messages continue.

This is what could cause it. 'Stupid' content based spam filters
delivering false positives to /dev/null. Neither the sender nor the
recipient know about the delivery failure.

Gerrit.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Russell Coker]

On Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:19, Gerrit Pape wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:35:28PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > The people who run such stupid filters misunderstand the way the
> > Internet works.
>
> Maybe you should do a short research on the user of this mail handling
> program before saying such.

When you have a very small number of people doing something totally contrary 
to what everyone else on the Internet is doing, and expecting that everyone 
else should go out of their way to accomodate them, then you don't need to do 
any research into who they are.

> > If you have to send an extra confirmation message every time you send
> > an email to someone you haven't communicated with before then it will
> > increase the number of messages required by at least 50%.  That is an
> > unreasonable burden to place on other people.
>
> I wrote the software primarily for ezmlm mailing lists, please rethink
> your statement with this precondition.

Such things are fine for mailing lists.  It's much the same as a regular list 
subscription.

It is not suitable for individual email addresses.

> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 08:47:04AM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> > Still too much. If someone initiates a communication, they should make
> > sure they can get the reply.
>
> Yes that's true.  I usually do this.  I'm not responsible for the
> Reply-To header in my message, the BTS mangled the headers and resent
> the message; and it still appears to be from me.  I've set
> Mail-Followup-To correctly.  I'm not interested in receiving private
> copies of mail in public discussions; I know where I post, and keep up
> with, in this case, the bug's history, and read debian-devel. I've noted
> that you two don't want to communicate with me, be it.

It's not that I wish to avoid communicating with any PEOPLE.  I just want to 
avoid communicating with auto-responders.

> On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 04:48:50PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > For reference, I will not reply to such a message, but I will consider
> > putting the entire domain in my spam filter if such messages continue.
>
> This is what could cause it. 'Stupid' content based spam filters
> delivering false positives to /dev/null. Neither the sender nor the
> recipient know about the delivery failure.

Who said anything about a false positive or /dev/null?

When I filter out a domain I make my mail servers return a 5xx code to the 
SMTP daemon that's sending the message, in the case of a false positive then 
the person sending the message should get a bounce (if their mail server is 
functional they will get a bounce).

When someone convinces me that their domain is lame and I configure my servers 
to block it the refusal of their mail is not a false-positive, it is a 
correct positive!

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: opening -private archives

[Florian Weimer]

Joerg Jaspert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>>> Which question? Where?
>> | 0. What is Debian's (current) approach to non-free software?  Why?
>> The "Why?" is not publicly documented, but the genesis of the Social
>> Contract might answer this question.
>
> As Luigi said, the answer itself is  in the Social Contract. I dont ask
> for the discussion or the way it made.

Oh, than I've misunderstood your question.  

(I've trouble to understand the way the Social Contract emphasizes the
necessity of non-free software without a historical perspective.)

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Josip Rodin]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 05:13:01PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Maybe the one in Austria, because it's the top of that list of mirrors.

(I thought it would be clear that Austria is at the top because the list is
sorted alphabetically... I am aware of the problem with people who click the
first link they encounter regardless of what the link points to, but I don't
believe that this can be fixed to accomodate those. :)

> But maybe instead, back at debian.org's front page, you picked the
> "Getting Debian" link instead. Only to end up on a page that links to cd
> vendors and "downloading over the Internet". Ok, the latter. But it points
> to a page that only lets one download unnofficial netinst iso images,
> which are of varying quality, and well, unnoficial. And this second path
> (or rather, cul-de-sac) to a debian CD is entirely independant of the one
> described above. The website offers two ways to do the same thing, and
> neither works at all well.

This should now be fixed. Please check the front page's section on Getting
Debian again, and the Getting Debian web page itself.

http://www.debian.org/

http://www.debian.org/distrib/

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: Bug#171176: python2.2 2.2.2-2 version number confuses me

[Matthias Klose]

Maybe an aspirin could help as well ;-) Maybe somebody should make two
NMUs now ...

Ministero della Cultura Popolare writes:
> Package: python2.2
> Version: 2.2.2-2
> Severity: minor
> 
> Reading the name of the package followed by the version number confuses
> me.  As you can see:
> 
> python2.2 2.2.2-2
> 
> I'm using Debian GNU/Linux Sid.
> 
> I'm suggesting to change the version number as soon as possible.
> 
> g.
> 
> -- 
> Ministero della Cultura Popolare Italiana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 

subscribe

[debian-devel]

subscribe

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Duncan Findlay]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 07:19:47PM +0100, Gerrit Pape wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:35:28PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > The people who run such stupid filters misunderstand the way the
> > Internet works.
> 
> Maybe you should do a short research on the user of this mail handling
> program before saying such.

Do you really think that everyone should have to jump through hoops
for the privilege of communicating with you? Are you that arrogant?
 
> > If you have to send an extra confirmation message every time you send
> > an email to someone you haven't communicated with before then it will
> > increase the number of messages required by at least 50%.  That is an
> > unreasonable burden to place on other people.
> 
> I wrote the software primarily for ezmlm mailing lists, please rethink
> your statement with this precondition.

Then, use it for mailing lists, not for your personal mail. On
personal mail, it is entirely inappropriate, especially in situations
like this where _you_ requested the e-mail.

> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 08:47:04AM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> > Still too much. If someone initiates a communication, they should make
> > sure they can get the reply.
> 
> Yes that's true.  I usually do this.  I'm not responsible for the
> Reply-To header in my message, the BTS mangled the headers and resent
> the message; and it still appears to be from me.  I've set
> Mail-Followup-To correctly.  I'm not interested in receiving private
> copies of mail in public discussions; I know where I post, and keep up
> with, in this case, the bug's history, and read debian-devel. I've noted
> that you two don't want to communicate with me, be it.

If you don't want the BTS mail, send it to /dev/null; don't blindly
request confirmation.

> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:35:28PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > PS  If a spam filter blocks a message about an NMU then don't complain
> > about not being warned...
> 
> No. You receive a delivery notification, and you receive a bounce if the
> delivery fails. You know that your message didn't reach the recipient.

And the onus is on them to get pass your stupid filter? So in theory,
I could set up my mail server to bounce mail I didn't like/agree with.
So if someone e-mails me regarding a bug that I don't want to fix, I
bounce it. If someone e-mails me about wanting to NMU my package, I
bounce it, etc. And that way I'd be immune from people NMU'ing my
package.

That's BS.

> On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 04:48:50PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > For reference, I will not reply to such a message, but I will consider
> > putting the entire domain in my spam filter if such messages continue.
> 
> This is what could cause it. 'Stupid' content based spam filters
> delivering false positives to /dev/null. Neither the sender nor the
> recipient know about the delivery failure.

What's stupid is people who are arrogant enough to think that everyone
whom they communicate with should have to spend extra time (bandwidth,
etc) getting their message through a filter. Plus, the assume guilty
until proven innocent thing is ridiculous. What's also stupid is
people who deliver messages found to be spam to /dev/null.

What makes sense is to save all mail, and actually _look_ through
messages tagged as spam to ensure that there are no False Positives.
SpamAssassin can do this, and does it well. There are better solutions
to the spam problem than yours.

-- 
Duncan Findlay


pgpFZWUxQM6wE.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Peter Karlsson]

Josip Rodin:

> (I thought it would be clear that Austria is at the top because the list is
> sorted alphabetically...

...in English. The list is still sorted with Austria first in all the
other pages, even when it makes little or no sense at all.

(my favourite example is of course the Swedish translation, where
Austria should sort *last*).

-- 
\\//
Peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/
  I do not read or respond to mail with HTML attachments.

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Josip Rodin]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 09:41:23PM +0100, Peter Karlsson wrote:
> > (I thought it would be clear that Austria is at the top because the list is
> > sorted alphabetically...
> 
> ...in English. The list is still sorted with Austria first in all the
> other pages, even when it makes little or no sense at all.
> 
> (my favourite example is of course the Swedish translation, where
> Austria should sort *last*).

That's a separate bug. :)

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Florian Weimer]

"Gerrit Pape" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:35:28PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
>> The people who run such stupid filters misunderstand the way the
>> Internet works.
>
> Maybe you should do a short research on the user of this mail handling
> program before saying such.

Some people believe they have the moral right to *reduce* the amount
of mail *they* receive by sending *others* *more* mail.  Or to set up
robots which ask humans to confirm that they aren't robots.

The world is a strange place.  Get over it.

KWANZAA MUSIC OF NEW ORLEANS

[MUSIC]

We invite you to hear a collection of New Orleans Kwanzaa Music presented for 
your enjoyment by Bill Summers.
http://www.essenceofkwanzaa.com

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Florian Weimer]

Giacomo Catenazzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I never read ISO C

In this case it's a bad idea to write C programs.  You should use a
programming language where the standardization committee fought with
ISO to publish the text of the standard under a free (even libre)
license. ;-)

> Are database (tables) copyrightable?

In Germany, databases are subject to one of our equivalents to
copyright.

Packages to run kernel 2.4.x on potato (release 27)

[Adrian Bunk]

I have prepared the packages needed to run kernels up to 2.4.19 on a
Debian 2.2r7 (potato) system. Please read [1] for more information.

The updated kernel packages contain a fix for a i386 DoS attack that
allows every user to crash the computer [2]. If you run older kernels
on a computer where you don't fully trust all users it's highly
recommended to upgrade the kernel.


Changes in this release:

  + added: kernel-image-2.4.19-i386
Binary packages:   
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19-386
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19-586tsc
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19-686
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19-686-smp
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19-k6
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19-k7
   o kernel-headers-2.4.19-k7-smp
   o kernel-image-2.4-386 
   o kernel-image-2.4-586tsc
   o kernel-image-2.4-686
   o kernel-image-2.4-686-smp   
   o kernel-image-2.4-k6
   o kernel-image-2.4-k7
   o kernel-image-2.4-k7-smp   
   o kernel-image-2.4.19-386
   o kernel-image-2.4.19-586tsc  
   o kernel-image-2.4.19-686
   o kernel-image-2.4.19-686-smp
   o kernel-image-2.4.19-k6
   o kernel-image-2.4.19-k7
   o kernel-image-2.4.19-k7-smp
   o kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.19-386
   o kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.19-586tsc
   o kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.19-686
   o kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.19-686-smp
   o kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.19-k6
   o kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.19-k7
   o kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.19-k7-smp
  + added: kernel-source-2.4.19
Binary packages:
   o kernel-doc-2.4.19
   o kernel-source-2.4.19
  + updated: initrd-tools (0.1.21 -> 0.1.32woody.2)
  + included blockdev in util-linux
  + removed: kernel-image-2.4.18-i386
  + removed: kernel-source-2.4.18


cu
Adrian

[1] http://www.fs.tum.de/~bunk/kernel-24.html
[2] http://security-archive.merton.ox.ac.uk/bugtraq-200211/0192.html

-- 

   "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
   Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

How to fetch proper source for libc

[Marc Singer]

I'm tracking a memory leak that appears to stem from regexec().

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~...coastal/ssem > apt-cache policy libc6

 libc6:
   Installed: 2.3.1-5
   Candidate: 2.3.1-5
   Version Table:
  *** 2.3.1-5 0
 500 file: unstable/main Packages
 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
  2.2.5-6 0
 500 file: woody/main Packages
  2.1.3-24 0
 500 http://security.debian.org potato/updates/main Packages

However, when I fetch source I get version 2.2.5

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~...coastal/ssem > apt-get source libc6

 Reading Package Lists... Done
 Building Dependency Tree... Done
 Need to get 0B/11.8MB of source archives.
 dpkg-source: extracting glibc in glibc-2.2.5

Odd, but I assume apt is doing the right thing.

My memory allocator saves a stack backtrace for each allocation so I
can pinpoint the culprit.  The call stack looks like this:

  regexec
  re_search_internal
  set_regs
  proceed_next_node
  re_node_set_insert
  malloc

Note that this program is statically linked so that I can see all of
the symbols.

On building the library from source (2.2.5), these symbols are not
present.  If I unpack 2.3.1 source I don't see the symbols in
posix/regex.c.  Finally, I forced libc6-dev to reinstall the most
recent unstable version.  The symbols are definitely still present in
/usr/lib/libc.a.

Any suggestions?

 - Marc Singer

Package with non-free build-depends

[Chris Leishman]

Hi all,

The recently released version of libxml++ (0.16.0) includes doxygen
documentation produced from the code (to html), so I created a -doc
package for this.  However, doxygen wanted to use "dot" to create some
of the images for the documentation.  Problem with that is that "dot" is
from the graphviz package which is in non-free.

Unfortunately I wasn't paying attention the first time I uploaded the
package, but one of the nice auto builders told me off quick enough :)

So anyway - whats a good solution here?  Can I just not have the images
in the documentation, or do I have to include the images into the
package some other way?  The dependancy on graphviz was only so that the
documentation could be fully generated.

Thoughts and suggestions?  For now I've just removed the graphviz
build-depends and left the documentation with missing images.

Regards,
Chris


pgp7f90ZCxm2x.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: How to fetch proper source for libc

[Colin Watson]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:39:48PM -0800, Marc Singer wrote:
> I'm tracking a memory leak that appears to stem from regexec().

Have a look at #165603 for a patch that should fix it.

> However, when I fetch source I get version 2.2.5

What does your /etc/apt/sources.list look like?

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Package with non-free build-depends

[Matthias Klose]

Chris Leishman writes:
> Hi all,
> 
> The recently released version of libxml++ (0.16.0) includes doxygen
> documentation produced from the code (to html), so I created a -doc
> package for this.  However, doxygen wanted to use "dot" to create some
> of the images for the documentation.  Problem with that is that "dot" is
> from the graphviz package which is in non-free.
> 
> Unfortunately I wasn't paying attention the first time I uploaded the
> package, but one of the nice auto builders told me off quick enough :)
> 
> So anyway - whats a good solution here?  Can I just not have the images
> in the documentation, or do I have to include the images into the
> package some other way?  The dependancy on graphviz was only so that the
> documentation could be fully generated.
> 
> Thoughts and suggestions?  For now I've just removed the graphviz
> build-depends and left the documentation with missing images.

Look, if doxygen can be configured for your packages not using dot. Or
else include a "precompiled" version of the docs into your diff
file. Adapt your rules in a way, that it can fall back to the
precompiled version, if the graphviz package cannot be found.

Re: How to fetch proper source for libc

[Marc Singer]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 12:02:01AM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > However, when I fetch source I get version 2.2.5
> 
> What does your /etc/apt/sources.list look like?

Duh.  Right.

Re: Package with non-free build-depends

[Chris Leishman]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 01:09:54AM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
 
> Look, if doxygen can be configured for your packages not using dot. Or
> else include a "precompiled" version of the docs into your diff
> file. Adapt your rules in a way, that it can fall back to the
> precompiled version, if the graphviz package cannot be found.

Thats essentially what I've done now.  Doxygen is nice enough not to
crap out if it can't find dot, it just leaves out the images.  And if it
does find dot, then all is good.

I could include the gifs in the diff I guess - I just don't like the
idea of bloating it that much

Regards,
Chris


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Description: PGP signature

Re: How to validate Debian woody CDs?

[Anthony DeRobertis]

On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 07:51, Jochen Voss wrote:

> Is this a good way to check wheter the CDs are official
> Debian CDs?

http://http.us.debian.org/dists/woody/Release
http://http.us.debian.org/dists/woody/main/binary-i386/Packages

I think debootstrap may even do this verification for you, and you
mentioned the first CD is known good.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: How to fetch proper source for libc

[Marc Singer]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 12:02:01AM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:39:48PM -0800, Marc Singer wrote:
> > I'm tracking a memory leak that appears to stem from regexec().

Hmm.  What makes you think that this patch fixes a memory leak?  I ask
because the patch appears to deal with 16-bit characters.

Re: How to fetch proper source for libc

[Colin Watson]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 04:53:51PM -0800, Marc Singer wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 12:02:01AM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:39:48PM -0800, Marc Singer wrote:
> > > I'm tracking a memory leak that appears to stem from regexec().
> 
> Hmm.  What makes you think that this patch fixes a memory leak?  I ask
> because the patch appears to deal with 16-bit characters.

The crucial bit is the movement of the assignment to pstr->tip_context
to inside the (offset < pstr->valid_len) test; that assignment was where
the crash happened, and when I gdb'ed into it the test indeed wouldn't
have passed.

(I say crash, while you say memory leak; the crash was intermittent
enough and bothered valgrind enough that I'm guessing it could have been
a memory leak under other circumstances. No, I have no particular proof
of this, but it might be worth your while trying it out.)

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: apt-src (was deb-src!)

[Junichi Uekawa]

> > Don't fool with the Debian architecture name. It
> > might be better to
> > install pentium-builder instead.
> > 
> 
> got that installed I pretty sure.  Actually I was
> talking rubbish about it building against i386 arch,
> dunno why I thought that.  It builds i686 fine.
> 
> However the other question re passing optimization
> flags and other such stuff still remains.  Can't see
> how you could do it, assuming that you can.  Not big
> deal if you can't just would be nice to have.  Any
> ideas anyone?

Maybe be more specific and file a wishlist bug against 
pentium-builder, or read pentium-builder manual page and 
see if it is already implemented ?


regards,
junichi

Re: Package with non-free build-depends

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Chris Leishman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 01:09:54AM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
>  
> > Look, if doxygen can be configured for your packages not using dot. Or
> > else include a "precompiled" version of the docs into your diff
> > file. Adapt your rules in a way, that it can fall back to the
> > precompiled version, if the graphviz package cannot be found.
> 
> Thats essentially what I've done now.  Doxygen is nice enough not to
> crap out if it can't find dot, it just leaves out the images.  And if it
> does find dot, then all is good.
> 
> I could include the gifs in the diff I guess - I just don't like the
> idea of bloating it that much

You can also tell doxygen to forego use of dot altogether (whether
installed or not).  Just set HAVE_DOT=NO in the doxygen file.  It will
leave out any references and links from/to the gifs as well, so the
resulting documentation is not broken.
-- 
Olaf MeeuwissenEPSON KOWA Corporation, ECS
GnuPG key: 6BE37D90/AB6B 0D1F 99E7 1BF5 EB97  976A 16C7 F27D 6BE3 7D90
Penguin's lib!   -- I hack, therefore I am --   LPIC-2

拨打国际长途省钱的好方法

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十分抱歉，未得到您的允许,在您的信箱中投放广告敬请原谅！
   
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拨打国际长途省钱的好方法

[voip]

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可由中国大陆地区拨打 → 英，法，得，意，日，美，加，等40个国家的国际长途通达地区列表

使用方法如下：

台湾转接台提供了两个特服号：00886949869023和00886940394064如果您在中国地区拨打国际长途，请先拨通其中一个特服号，可听到语音提示:“请直拨电话号码”这时就输入您要拨的号码，但要将所拨号码的00字头省去，例：您要拨的被叫号码是0014154376588，改为14154376588即可。  
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Mozilla Calendar?

[Carl B. Constantine]

is anyone planning on packaging Mozilla.org's Calendar program?


It requires Mozilla 1.2a (1.2 is in Unstable but I don't know about
1.2a). It looks promising and hope someone packages it. If not, I might
take it up since I think asd-ng (which I'm supposed to be maintaining)
is in limbo at present.

-- 
 .''`.  Carl B. Constantine
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'GnuPG: 135F FC30 7A02 B0EB 61DB  34E3 3AF1 DC6C 9F7A 3FF8
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


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Re: Mozilla Calendar?

[Graham Wilson]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 08:29:28PM -0800, Carl B. Constantine wrote:
> If not, I might take it up since I think asd-ng (which I'm supposed to
> be maintaining) is in limbo at present.

what is asd-ng?

--
gram


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Re: Mozilla Calendar?

[Anthony DeRobertis]

On Sun, 2002-12-01 at 23:29, Carl B. Constantine wrote:

> It requires Mozilla 1.2a (1.2 is in Unstable but I don't know about
> 1.2a).

It works on 1.2a and higher. 1.2 is higher than 1.2a (a=alpha), so
you're set.


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