Re: ecartis up for adoption

[Martin Loschwitz]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:46:01PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have decided that since my mailing lists are not currently hosted on
> Debian, I don't have the time/resources/testing platform that I used to for
> maintaining Ecartis, and I would like some qualified person to take over
> maintenance of this package.
> 
If you do not mind, I'll take it.

> Thanks,
> John
> 
-- 
  .''`.   Name: Martin Loschwitz
 : :'  :  E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 `. `'`   www: http://www.madkiss.org/ 
   `- Use Debian GNU/Linux - http://www.debian.org


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Re: esound with libasound2

[Ryuichi Arafune]

(Please cc: me if you reply this message.)

Ok, I understand what your thinking.  I will not do NMU.  

However, I don't think only ALSA 0.5 is stable release. The current
ALSA is also enough stable for sid ("unstable" release) users.  So I
believe the upload of esound with libasound2 to sid is not so bad
action.  Moreover, the upstream ALSA developers said " The 0.5.x
series is considered deprecated and is no longer supported" (in their
web page.), and Debian will treat gcc3.2 as a default c compiler in
near feture. I believe ALSA 0.5 cannot be built by gcc 3.2.  Then,
please reconsider about uploading esound built with libasound2.

Regards.

By the way, how about gdm package? The current (in sid) gnome version
is "2" !!


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ryan Murray)
Subject: Re: esound with libasound2
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:13:52 -0800
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

rmurray> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 01:48:12PM +0900, Ryuichi Arafune wrote:
rmurray> > any objections?  
rmurray> 
rmurray> This is an ABI change, and as ALSA 0.5 is still the stable release, 
(and
rmurray> the only one that seems to work for me) I don't want to change it yet.
rmurray> 
rmurray> > As in #170923, we have newer version of esound.  If
rmurray> 
rmurray> Debian esound has several changes from upstream.  The new upstream 
version
rmurray> doesn't have many changes, and some of them are already in the package,
rmurray> which is why I haven't updated it.
rmurray> 
rmurray> > there is no objections about NMU, I would like to upload for this new
rmurray> > version of esound.
rmurray> 
rmurray> Please do not.

Re: /tmp/root ???

[Bob Proulx]

Atsuhito Kohda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-12-04 13:11:40 +0900]:
> 
> I'm not sure but after recent upgrading of unstable
> I found /tmp/root 
> 
> And can anyone guess which package created this /tmp/root ?

Try this on your machine.  It might be a clue.  Or it might not turn
up anything at all.  But it is worth a try.

  cd /var/lib/dpkg/info
  grep /tmp/root *

That is where the post install scripts reside.  Perhaps one of the
packages you installed has a post install script which created that.
A shot in the dark.

Bob


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Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Andreas Fuchs]

On 2002-12-03, Adam McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Please enlighten me, anyway: Why is bouncing the full body of the
>> mail you received from a person who claims to be Adam back to Adam a
>> good idea?
> 
> This is an implementation issue, not a philosophical issue.  

This is correct. The system still needs to have the sender acknowledge
that the message she sent is the one she is replying to, which requires
at sending at least a little of the message back; pieces of which can
be spam sent from a malicious user. TMDA source says so, too, in the
comment to AUTORESPONSE_INCLUDE_SENDER_COPY.

> Since I only use TMDA I can't speak for others but TMDA has a
> CONFIRM_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE configuration variable, which will exclude
> the body of the message from the confirmation request if its size
> exceeds the defined value.  The default is 50k.

Right, and in TMDA there is also MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY, which only
seems to consider messages per sender. I'm not quite convinced that such
a setup can not be abused as a spam reflector, useless as it may be (it
bounces the full headers), other than annoying a lot of people. (-:

-- 
Andreas Fuchs, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], antifuchs
Hail RMS! Hail Cthulhu! Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!

Re: esound with libasound2

[Thomas Hood]

It would be useful if someone would package the current
esound program.  The esound package maintainer has clearly
expressed his lack of interest in doing so.

esound2 anyone?

-- 
Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 09:22:35AM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> On 2002-12-03, Adam McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Please enlighten me, anyway: Why is bouncing the full body of the
> >> mail you received from a person who claims to be Adam back to Adam a
> >> good idea?
> > 
> > This is an implementation issue, not a philosophical issue.  
> 
> This is correct. The system still needs to have the sender acknowledge
> that the message she sent is the one she is replying to, which requires
> at sending at least a little of the message back; pieces of which can
> be spam sent from a malicious user. TMDA source says so, too, in the
> comment to AUTORESPONSE_INCLUDE_SENDER_COPY.

Yes, but this can be set to include only the headers, or none of the
sender's message, if the user desires.  It still, at most, includes all
of the information that would be contained in a normal bounce message.

Have you read DJB's modest proposal regarding SMTP traffic?

> > Since I only use TMDA I can't speak for others but TMDA has a
> > CONFIRM_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE configuration variable, which will exclude
> > the body of the message from the confirmation request if its size
> > exceeds the defined value.  The default is 50k.
> 
> Right, and in TMDA there is also MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY, which only
> seems to consider messages per sender. I'm not quite convinced that such
> a setup can not be abused as a spam reflector, useless as it may be (it
> bounces the full headers), other than annoying a lot of people. (-:

Any autoresponder can be used as a spam "reflector", so that still doesn't
condemn this particular class of software.  There is no amplification effect.

--Adam

-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Bug#171672: ITP: lufs-{utils,src} -- Linux Userland Filesystem

[Eduard Bloch [RHRK]]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-12-04
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: lufs-{utils,src}
  Version : 0.8.2
  Upstream Author : Florin Malita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://lufs.sourceforge.net/main/contact.html
* License : GPL
  Description : Linux Userland Filesystem (preparing a better description)

LUFS is a hybrid userspace filesystem framework supporting an indefinite
number of filesystems (localfs, sshfs, ftpfs, httpfs, socketfs,
freenetfs, and nutellafs) transparently for any application. It can be
regarded as doing the same job as the VFS (virtual filesystem switch) in
the kernel: it is a switch, distributing the filesystem calls to its
supported filesystems. However, LUFS filesystems are implemented in
userspace. This would be a drawback for local filesystems where the
access speed is important, but proves to be a huge advantage for
networked filesystems where the userland flexibility is most important.

This package will be packaged similar to ftpfs: one source package for
module generation, one package with mount and other integration tools.

Regards,
Eduard.

-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux linda.rhrk.uni-kl.de 2.4.20 #3 SMP Fri Nov 29 18:06:50 CET 2002 
i686
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

电子厂:降低您生产成本的福音

[cbc]

您好!
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
打扰您实在不好意思!

Debian package of additional TuxRacer courses

[Andreas Tille]

Hello,

I have uploaded Debian packages of additional TuxRacer courses at

   http://people.debian.org/~tille/packages/tuxracer-courses/

The packages do not have Debian quality regarding the necessary docs
but they just work.  I do not plan to make this an official package because
each single course would need an explicite license for each single
course.  The web site

   http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/courses.php

which provides these courses does not contain even author for each
course and so we might not be able to get a license at all.  I looked
into the files and found some additional names of authors and their
e-mail addresses.  I just append the file doc/courses which I stored
in the source tar archive.  This might give you an idea of all working
courses (there where two broken zip files at the web page above) and
the authors if available.

If somebody would like to care about writing an e-mail to the author
and ask him for a license of his work it might be possible to build
an official package from this preliminary work.  But I would love if
someone other would step in here.

Kind regards

 Andreas.


Aletsch Glacier
Author: Karsten Eiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Not Rated Yet
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/aletsch_glacier.zip

Big Ass Jump
Author: Mark Dillavou
Mean Rating: 7 / 10
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/big_ass_jump.zip

Booger
Author: Yvonne Aubourg & Henry Stanaland
Mean Rating: 5 / 10
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/booger.zip

Dead Man's Drop
Author: George (mjman) Veeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 7 / 10
Dead Man's Drop is a pretty tough hill. It's fast, steep, lumpy, twisty, and
full of trees. The herrings are hard to get as well. Also contains a *BIG*
surprise!
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/21/deadmandrop.zip

Downhill Racer
Author: David Cottingham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> www.davidcottingham.homestead.com
Mean Rating: 5 / 10
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/downhill_racer.zip

Eiskanal
Author: David Weisgerber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 7 / 10
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/eiskanal.zip

Express Lane
Author: Thomas Schall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 9 / 10
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/express_lane.zip

Hamburger Hill
Author: George (mjman) Veeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 8 / 10
Hamburger Hill is steep, narrow, twisty, lumpy, icy, and rocky, with a few
trees thrown in right in your way! Thank goodness this game doesn't injure
your penguin when you crash, otherwise he'd be ground beef by the time he
got to the bottom!
You'll have a lot of trouble staying on the ground in some areas, and it
will be hard to get a good time AND a good score.
Good luck and enjoy!
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/21/hamburger_hill.zip

Hazzard Valley
Author: George (mjman) Veeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 5 / 10
Hazzard Valley is full of hazards, like trees, deep caverns, spikes, and
huge areas of rocky plains, not to mention your speed being your enemy in
trying to get the herrings and stay on course!
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/21/hazzard_valley.zip

High Road
Author: Mark D'voo 
Mean Rating: 8 / 10
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/high_road.zip

Hippo Run
Author: Adam (zopheus) Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 7 / 10
This is a fast course that makes you think.  You can't just let gravity do
its work and sit back and watch.  Fast and fun, there are three major sections
to the course.  The first is a twisty ride over hills and ice.  The second is
up on top, if you fall off your in trouble.  Make it all the way on the second
part and get a fish reward.  Third is the fastest part of all.  But watch out
for all the trees they can catch you if your not careful.  Have fun!
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/24/hippo_run.zip

I've Got a Woody
Author: 
Not Rated Yet
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/ive_got_a_woody.zip

Ice Hill
Author: Karsten Eiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Not Rated Yet
Moved from old site.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/14/ice_hill.zip

Ice Labyrinth
Author: George (mjman) Veeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 7 / 10
Ice Labyrinth has many possible paths to reach the finish. Some have more
herrings than others. This is a relatively fast course with times a bit
over a minute to complete.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/21/ice_labyrinth.zip

Ice Pipeline
Author: John Michael Mulesa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 6 / 10
Cool course that is kind of a challenge because you are on a course elevated
on ice above the rest.
URL: http://tuxracer.fubaby.com/files/courses/20/ice_pipeline.zip

In Search Of Vodka
Author: Arthur Yarwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mean Rating: 10 / 10
A 

Re: Planned mass-filing of bugs: java packages only depending on java-common

[Stefan Gybas]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 09:33:49AM -0800, Stephen Zander wrote:

> To that end I will be filing important bugs against any lib*-java
> package that does not depend on either java1-runtime or java2-runtime
> (should the package required features of the standard java.* classes
> that are only included in the j2se specification).

Currently the following packages in testing provide java1-runtime:
gij-3.0, gij-3.2, orp-classpath and sablevm. All of them include (or
depend on) a Java virtual machine so if I add this dependecy to the
lib*-java packages I end up with a de-facto dependency on a virtual
machine (which is e.g. not needed for autobuilders). Could you first
file bug reports against all Java apckages that should provide
java1-runtime (like classpath)?

Regards,
Stefan Gybas

Re: /tmp/root ???

[Oliver Kurth]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:40:27AM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Atsuhito Kohda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-12-04 13:11:40 +0900]:
> > 
> > I'm not sure but after recent upgrading of unstable
> > I found /tmp/root 
> > 
> > And can anyone guess which package created this /tmp/root ?
> 
> Try this on your machine.  It might be a clue.  Or it might not turn
> up anything at all.  But it is worth a try.
> 
>   cd /var/lib/dpkg/info
>   grep /tmp/root *

No, I think it is from somewhere else:

debian:~# cd /var/lib/dpkg/info
debian:/var/lib/dpkg/info# grep tmp/root *
debian:/var/lib/dpkg/info# 

debian:~# ls -ld /tmp/{kurth,root}
drwx--2 kurthkurth4096 Dec  3 11:53 /tmp/kurth
drwx--2 root root 4096 Dec  3 21:22 /tmp/root

I did my last upgrade yesterday morning, well before 21:22. I think
its created by xemacs, or gcc, or similar. Nothing to worry about,
I guess. You see that there is also a directory 'kurth', that's my
login on that box.

Greetings,
Oliver
-- 
DAM approval waiting time: 168 days.
See http://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=oku%40masqmail.cx


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电邮  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Mozilla Calendar?

[Sami Haahtinen]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 08:29:28PM -0800, Carl B. Constantine wrote:
> is anyone planning on packaging Mozilla.org's Calendar program?
> 
> 
> It requires Mozilla 1.2a (1.2 is in Unstable but I don't know about
> 1.2a). It looks promising and hope someone packages it. 

In the past the only thing that stopped me from doing a build of my own
from the sources was that debian missed libical.. and now that there
appears to be libical-dev, i can't see any reason why not package it..

Sami


-- 
  -< Sami Haahtinen >-
  -[ Notify immediately if you do not receive this message ]-
-< 2209 3C53 D0FB 041C F7B1  F908 A9B6 F730 B83D 761C >-

Re: esound with libasound2

[Jordi Mallach]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:13:52PM -0800, Ryan Murray wrote:
> This is an ABI change, and as ALSA 0.5 is still the stable release, (and
> the only one that seems to work for me) I don't want to change it yet.

Well, what Ryuichi said... ALSA people don't support 0.5 anymore. In any
case, I guess it's ok to stick to libasound1 for now, as ALSA people
still do bad stuff with libasound2 with every new release candidate (if
they can be called rc's).

ALSA upstreams were planning to drop alsa-0.5 packages RSN. I guess
this won't include alsa-lib-0.5, as it's still used by a handful[1] of
packages, but the rest of stuff is just too painful to maintain.

Jordi

[1]
Reverse Depends: 
  xmp-alsa,libasound1 0.5.5
  soundtracker,libasound1 0.5.5
  smurf,libasound1 0.5.8
  pmidi,libasound1 0.5.5
  libphonecore1,libasound1 0.5.5
  libesd-alsa0,libasound1 0.5.5
  libasound1-dev,libasound1 0.5.10b-1
  libao0,libasound1
  freesci,libasound1 0.5.5
  alsa-utils-0.5,libasound1 0.5.5

-- 
Jordi Mallach Pérez  --  Debian developer http://www.debian.org/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sindominio.net/
GnuPG public key information available at http://oskuro.net/~jordi/


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Bug#171686: ITP: adzapper -- squid_redirect advertisement zapper

[Ludovic Drolez]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-12-04
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: adzapper
  Version : 20021128
  Upstream Author : Cameron Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://adzapper.sourceforge.net/
* License : BSD
  Description : squid_redirect advertisement zapper

A redirector for squid that intercepts advertising (banners, popup
windows, flash animations, etc), page counters and some web bugs (as
found). This has both aesthetic and bandwidth benefits.

-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux joebar 2.4.20-k6 #2 Sun Dec 1 13:39:44 EST 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Bug#171688: ITP: lazy -- A console-based CD player with digital audio extraction support

[Shiju p. Nair]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-12-04
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: lazy
  Version : 0.23b
  Upstream Author : Lucas Correia Villa Real <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
* URL : 
http://freshmeat.net/redir/lazy/5502/url_bz2/lazy-0.23b.tar.bz2
* License : GPL
  Description : A console-based CD player with digital audio extraction 
support

Lazy is a console-based CD player with freedb support. It provides artist,
album, and song name display, looking at the main freedb-server for
unrecognized songs. It can also extract audio digitally if the CD-ROM drive
does not have an analog audio cable connected to it.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386

yacc on arm???

[martin f krafft]

please check

http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=arm&pkg=gradm&ver=1.5a-1

bison is in build-depends, and at least on i386, it provides
bison.yacc, which yacc is linked to via alternatives.

so what's the deal on ARM?

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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why was there no bug filed?

[martin f krafft]

speaks for itself. i didn't notice in months...

http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=arm&pkg=gradm&ver=1.5a-1
http://bugs.debian.org/gradm

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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package not entering testing

[martin f krafft]

First off, http://packages.qa.debian.org/ ROCKS, thanks Raphaël!

The page on gjay states:

  The package has not yet entered testing  even though the 10-day
  delay is over.

update-excuses lists it as valid candidate. is there something i am
missing?

also, wuzzah's page says that it's "Too young, only 0 of 10 days old".
i uploaded it to unstable on 17 Nov! What's going on?

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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Re: package not entering testing

[Jérôme Marant]

martin f krafft wrote:
First off, http://packages.qa.debian.org/ ROCKS, thanks Raphaël!
The page on gjay states:
 The package has not yet entered testing  even though the 10-day
 delay is over.
update-excuses lists it as valid candidate. is there something i am
missing?
also, wuzzah's page says that it's "Too young, only 0 of 10 days old".
i uploaded it to unstable on 17 Nov! What's going on?
 

You should have a look at update_output.txt which gives more details about
problems. Details about such outputs can be found in the main testing page.
Cheers,

Re: why was there no bug filed?

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 10:56:44AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> speaks for itself. i didn't notice in months...
> 
> http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=arm&pkg=gradm&ver=1.5a-1
> http://bugs.debian.org/gradm

It's easier to notice these things in a timely fashion if you put
'grep-excuses "your name"' (or just 'grep-excuses' with
GREP_EXCUSES_MAINTAINER='your name' in ~/.devscripts) in your crontab.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#171693: ITP: wondershaper -- a script to set up QoS, mainly for home users

[martin f krafft]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-12-04
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: wondershaper
  Version : 1.1a
  Upstream Author : Bert Hubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://lartc.org/wondershaper/
* License : GPL
  Description : a script to set up QoS, mainly for home users

I am starting to look at the package and will upload it as soon as
I grasp it. If someone else can upload it faster, I'll happily
surrender.

-- System Information
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux fishbowl 2.4.19-grsec+freeswan-fishbowl #1 Thu Nov 28 09:36:25 
CET 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=en_GB.ISO-8859-15, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.ISO-8859-15

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


pgpWxrkhXH88c.pgp
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Re: package not entering testing

[Joerg Jaspert]

martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> also, wuzzah's page says that it's "Too young, only 0 of 10 days old".
> i uploaded it to unstable on 17 Nov! What's going on?

Read the lists. :)
Testing scripts are dead since some time.


-- 
bye Joerg


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Re: why was there no bug filed?

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1319 +0100]:
> It's easier to notice these things in a timely fashion if you put
> 'grep-excuses "your name"' (or just 'grep-excuses' with
> GREP_EXCUSES_MAINTAINER='your name' in ~/.devscripts) in your crontab.

nice! still doesn't explain why the bug wasn't reported, does it?

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


pgpm8xeoPaAIV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: package not entering testing

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1308 +0100]:
> You should have a look at update_output.txt which gives more details about
> problems. Details about such outputs can be found in the main testing page.

okay, that explains gjay (build failure on ia64). but i can find
nothing on why wuzzah is "Too young, only 0 of 10 days old". it's 17 days old!

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


pgpHTPWEcxcPh.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: package not entering testing

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Joerg Jaspert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1331 +0100]:
> > also, wuzzah's page says that it's "Too young, only 0 of 10 days old".
> > i uploaded it to unstable on 17 Nov! What's going on?
> 
> Read the lists. :)

i am trying...

> Testing scripts are dead since some time.

okay, so no package will make it to testing in the mean time???

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


pgpgaGsHZXpAT.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: why was there no bug filed?

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 01:34:07PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1319 +0100]:
> > It's easier to notice these things in a timely fashion if you put
> > 'grep-excuses "your name"' (or just 'grep-excuses' with
> > GREP_EXCUSES_MAINTAINER='your name' in ~/.devscripts) in your crontab.
> 
> nice! still doesn't explain why the bug wasn't reported, does it?

I'd be extremely surprised if the explanation wasn't something along the
lines of "we didn't get round to it" or "something more important came
up". Humans, not automatic systems, file bugs.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: package not entering testing

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 01:38:08PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Joerg Jaspert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1331 +0100]:
> > Testing scripts are dead since some time.
> 
> okay, so no package will make it to testing in the mean time???

Correct. Also, multiple punctuation marks are a sign of insanity. ;-)

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

ITH: hdf5

[Josselin Mouette]

I intent to hijack the hdf5 package. 
Its current maintainer didn't make any upload for about a year, and the
package is currently virtually maintained by me; I have already done 4
NMUs, as I have packages depending on hdf5, and thus needed to solve the
RC bugs. 
If I don't have any news from Brian for a few more weeks, I will make an
upload.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom



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您好! debian-devel, 欢迎光临因艾情趣网

[因艾情趣网]

Re: ecartis up for adoption

[John Goerzen]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 10:46:12PM -0600, Graham Wilson wrote:
> > take over maintenance of this package.
> 
> is development still active upstream? i used to use listar heavily, but
> stopped because i thought it was not being very well maintained by
> upstream.

Yes.  There is not a lot of activity upstream, because they basically
consider Ecartis "finished" -- that is, they've accomplished everything they
set out to do.  Nevertheless, it is actively maintained, and there are
periodic updates and enhancements.

Think of it sorta like Postfix -- the thing works, and is feature-complete,
so there's not a lot of major changes going on.

-- John

Re: ecartis up for adoption

[John Goerzen]

Go ahead, it's yours.  Please upload a version with a new Maintainer: line
that closes WNPP O bug 171621.

Thanks,
John Goerzen

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:01:22AM +0100, Martin Loschwitz wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:46:01PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I have decided that since my mailing lists are not currently hosted on
> > Debian, I don't have the time/resources/testing platform that I used to for
> > maintaining Ecartis, and I would like some qualified person to take over
> > maintenance of this package.
> > 
> If you do not mind, I'll take it.
> 
> > Thanks,
> > John
> > 
> -- 
>   .''`.   Name: Martin Loschwitz
>  : :'  :  E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  `. `'`   www: http://www.madkiss.org/ 
>`- Use Debian GNU/Linux - http://www.debian.org

Re:debian-devel

[qlzh]

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http://godream.51.net
2002.12.04


www.caihu.com.url
Description: Binary data

Re: package not entering testing

[Anthony Towns]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:53:52PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> Correct. Also, multiple punctuation marks are a sign of insanity. ;-)
^^^

Always knew those things were dangerous.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

 ``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Bernhard R. Link]

* Jim Penny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [021203 17:35]:
> OK, now, supposing that the unicode license is found to be non-DSFG
> free, and hence that UnicodeData.txt is non-free.
> 
> Suppose a program implements either unicode collation, regular expressions, 
> or any of the other things mentioned above.
> 
> (collation is at: http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr10/,
> regular expressions are at http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/)
> 
> Can the program be in debian main?

When such ridiculous preconditions hold, the program will be most likely
undistributable at all. Not only for debian but for anybody except the
author, if there is a single one. (At least if it is GPL or any other similar
licence)


Hochachtungsvoll,
  Bernhard R. Link

-- 
 sagen wir mal...ich hab alle sourcen in /lost+found/waimea
 gEistiO: [...] Warum lost+found?
 wo haette ich es denn sonst hingeben solln?

Re:debian-devel

[qlzh]

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http://godream.51.net
2002.12.04


www.caihu.com.url
Description: Binary data

Re: Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[John David Anglin]

> > The second problem is an internal compiler error on hppa:
> > ...
> > gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -DINET6 -DPREFIX=\"/usr\" 
> > -DSYSCONFDIR=\"/etc\" -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DLIBDIR=\"/usr/lib\" -O -g3 
> > -Wall -Wcast-align -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes 
> > -Wmissing-declarations -Wpointer-arith -Wnested-externs -D_REENTRANT -MT 
> > htscore.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/htscore.Tpo -c htscore.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o 
> > .libs/htscore.lo
> > htscore.c: In function `httpmirror':
> > htscore.c:2720: Internal compiler error in output_cbranch, at 
> > config/pa/pa.c:5159
> > Please submit a full bug report,
> > with preprocessed source if appropriate.
> > See http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/bugs.html> for instructions.
> > make[4]: *** [htscore.lo] Error 1
> > 
> > The line 2720 is the end of a quite long function, which is the main 
> > html/javascript/css parser code (difficult to split into parts), but I 
> > don't really see what's the problem.

I believe that you have hit a compilation limit in the pa backend.  You
have an unconditional branch that can't reach its target.  The only work
around at the moment is to compile without optimization.  See the comments
in pa/pa.md for the "jump" insn.  We need a scratch register to load the
address into but it's too late to get one.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
National Research Council of Canada  (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: Bug#171693: ITP: wondershaper -- a script to set up QoS, mainly for home users

[Joerg Friedrich]

martin f krafft schrieb am Mittwoch, 04. Dezember 2002 um 13:08:46 +0100:
> * Package name: wondershaper
>   Version : 1.1a
>   Upstream Author : Bert Hubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://lartc.org/wondershaper/
> * License : GPL
>   Description : a script to set up QoS, mainly for home users

Please notice that the wondershaper has two scripts. First is cbq-based
and the other htb-based. cbq is no longer developped, but tc from
iproute does not support htb.
See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=171277

Maybe you should wait until a new iproute has been uploaded.

-- 
Heute ist nicht alle Tage, ich komm' wieder, keine Frage!!!

   Joerg

Animals can be driven crazy by putting too many in too small a pen.
Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
-- Lazarus Long

Re: Bug#171693: ITP: wondershaper -- a script to set up QoS, mainly for home users

[Jan Niehusmann]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 02:25:43PM +0100, Joerg Friedrich wrote:
> and the other htb-based. cbq is no longer developped, but tc from
> iproute does not support htb.

Well, according to the changelog, tc does support htb, but it's probably
based on htb2 and 2.4.20 contains htb3, which seems to be incompatible. 

But for people using htb2, the wondershaper script could be useful now,
so I think it'd be fine to upload it now.

Jan

Bug#171720: general: Evolution1.2 does not compile on testing

[mjnf]

Package: general
Version: 20021204
Severity: normal

I have a update testing system. I also have the following lines on my
/etc/apt/sources.list for whenever I want to try some "bleeding edge
software"

deb-src http://ftp.uevora.pt/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.uevora.pt/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib
non-free
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib
non-free

When i do:
apt-get -b build-dep evolution

I get:

E: Build-Depends dependency on evolution cannot be satisfied because the
package gtkhtml1.1 cannot be found


-- System Information
Debian Release: 2.2
Kernel Version: Linux neptuno 2.2.17 #1 Wed Sep 6 16:40:00 WEST 2000 i686 
unknown

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打扰您实在不好意思!

Bug#171731: ITP: gnuzza -- A small peer-to-peer chat program

[Ramakrishnan M]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: gnuzza
  Version : 0.4.3
  Upstream Author : Timo Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.winpt.org/cryptchat/
* License : GPL
  Description : A small peer-to-peer chat program

 gnuzza (CryptChat) is a small peer-to-peer chat with 
 some extra features. It uses Diffie-Hellmann key agreement,
 with variable bit primes (1024-4096), to exchange sessions 
 keys and these keys are used to encrypt each byte that is 
 sent or received. The symmetric encryption is done by Blowfish
 (or at your opinion CAST5, Twofish, 3DES or AES128) with 
 128 bit keys. 

best regards
Ramakrishnan

Bug#171733: ITP: quack-el -- enhanced Emacs support for Scheme programming

[Ramakrishnan M]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: quack-el
  Version : 0.15
  Upstream Author : Neil W. Van Dyke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/
* License : GPLv2
  Description : enhanced Emacs support for Scheme programming

Quack enhances Emacs support for Scheme programming - for PLT Scheme 
and other Scheme implementations. It is layered atop the standard packages
cmuscheme.el, by Olin Shivers, and scheme.el, by Bill Rozas and Dave Love. 

Features include:

* Menu and commands for viewing popular Scheme-related manuals 
  or books. Uses local copies of PLT manuals when available, and 
  remote Web copies when necessary. Command for keyword lookup 
  in PLT manual, with keyword defaulting to symbol at point.

* Menus and command for viewing SRFIs. SRFI index information is 
  automatically downloaded from SRFI Web site. Prompt defaults to 
  SRFI number referenced at point.

* A find-file alternative that defaults to the file corresponding 
  to the PLT require form at point. (Other module systems will be 
  supported in future versions of Quack.)

* Two new sets of font-lock rules for Scheme: "PLT Style," which is 
  similar to that used by DrScheme 200 Check Syntax; and "Extended 
  GNU Emacs Style," which is an extended version of the standard 
  Scheme font-lock rules under GNU Emacs.

* Enhanced run-scheme behavior.

* Enhanced switch-to-scheme behavior.

* Extended emacs-w3m support for lightweight browsing of manuals and 
  SRFIs in Emacs windows, including Info-like t, [, and ] commands that 
  work with many HTML-format books (including PLT manuals and SICP).

* Scheme Mode indentation rules for PLT and Guile.

* Command to toggle a define form between (define ( ) ) 
  and (define  (lambda () )) syntax.

* Command for tidying the formatting in a Scheme Mode buffer.

* The ) and ] keys insert the character that agrees with the s-expression's 
  opening character.

* Mode for inspecting contents of PLT .plt package files.

* Command to open a Dired on a specified PLT collection.

Quack was originally started for PLT Scheme programmers who sometimes prefer 
to use Emacs rather than DrScheme for writing code, and also for people 
(especially students in underequipped schools) whose computers are not powerful 
enough to run DrScheme. The name "Quack" was a play on the name of DrScheme. 
Quack is no longer PLT-specific - it now endeavors to support all popular 
Scheme implementations.

best regards
Ramakrishnan

description writing guide

[Colin Walters]

Hello,

I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project.  They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian.  I've been putting in some random efforts here and there to
comment on new package descriptions, but I finally sat down and
committed my thoughts on description writing in a semi-coherent form:

http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html

Please have a look at this if you're creating a new package now, and
fixing packages you currently maintain would be great too :)

Comments appreciated, of course.

Re: description writing guide

[Ari Pollak]

I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions, 
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty 
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and 
actual package release.

Colin Walters wrote:
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project.  They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian.  I've been putting in some random efforts here and there to
comment on new package descriptions, but I finally sat down and
committed my thoughts on description writing in a semi-coherent form:

Re: Mozilla Calendar?

[David B Harris]

On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:55:35 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sami Haahtinen) wrote:
> In the past the only thing that stopped me from doing a build of my
> own from the sources was that debian missed libical.. and now that
> there appears to be libical-dev, i can't see any reason why not
> package it..

Yes, looks like it was uploaded somewhere near the end of September.

Regardless, newer versions of Mozilla Calendar don't need it. :)


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Re: description writing guide

[David B Harris]

On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html

Thanks.


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Re: Bug#171555: ITP: kernel-patch-sensors Hardware health monitoring tool (kernel patch) . This package contains two kernel patches. For 2.4.19 and 2.4.20.

[David Z Maze]

Robert Nagy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> * Package name: kernel-patch-sensors
>   Version : 2.6.5
>   Upstream Author : The Lm_sensors Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://www2.lm-sensors.nu/~lm78/
> * License : GPL
>   Description : Lm-sensors is a hardware health monitoring package for 
> Linux (kernel patch)
>
> I've created the patches on my own for 2.4.19 and 2.4.20 from the
> lm-sensors-source package.
> This patch allow you patch you kernel with lm_sensors.

Hmm.  I (as the lm-sensors maintainer) am a little ambiguous about
this.  It seems wrong to have two separate source packages for
lm-sensors when they both do the same thing.  But I'm also unclear
whether the effort of maintaining a kernel-patch version of lm-sensors
in addition to the modules source is useful effort, since this sounds
like something that's hard to debug via the BTS.

How involved are the patches?  (How does the kernel-package
patch_the_kernel option work?)  Can you submit a wishlist bug against
lm-sensors-source, at least?

> This package Depends on kernel-patch-i2c.

How much "depends"?  Right now the standalone kernel modules for
lm-sensors 2.6.5 depend on i2c 2.6.1 or newer, so the version of i2c
in kernels 2.4.13 or newer works fine too.  There's magic in the
lm-sensors-source package to figure this out.  Repeat everything I
said before about kernel patches, replacing lm-sensors with i2c
(including filing a wishlist bug against i2c-source).

-- 
David Maze [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://people.debian.org/~dmaze/
"Theoretical politics is interesting.  Politicking should be illegal."
-- Abra Mitchell

Re: description writing guide

[David B Harris]

On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html

I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are "attention grabbers".
Just a few days ago, I saw a package description that said something
along the lines of "this is the best package for this purpose" ... and
it certainly wasn't. Even if it was, I think everybody would agree that
that kind of language doesn't belong in a Debian package description.

So, the opening section that talks about advertising and whatnot will
probably give these sorts of people the wrong idea; I'd ammend it to:

Debian package descriptions are the first avenue for you to give your
audience relevant, useful information about your package. When you
attempt to give somebody new knowledge, the key idea is to know your
audience.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with the third paragraph; everything in it is
factual and well-said, but it'd be nice if somebody who *didn't* know
what GTK+ and RAD are could know conclusively, "this is not what I
want". When you're looking for something specific, but don't know the
exact package name, the process of elimination is the best start. I know
I, *personally*, have installed packages which I couldn't immediately
rule out from the package description because I didn't *quite*
understand the jargon.

glade is a bad example for my point, though, because it has a great
description :)

In paragraph five ("So how can we better target these users?"), I'd
s/minimum/appropriate amount/. I've seen bloody jihads in very
well-known projects to give only the "minimum of technical jargon", and
people invariably take it to far. Had they just stressed appropriateness
of the text to the audience, things would have been much more
reasonable.

In paragraph six, ("So far we've mainly discussed the synopsis line"),
I'd s/competition/alternatives/; s/advertisement/good documentation/.
(BTW, if you totally disagree with me about this "advertisement" stuff,
do replace all references to "advertisements" with "good advertisements"
and whatnot :)

Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
up very little page space. Since the descriptions should be presented in
a fixed-width font (for many reasons, this also includes GUI package
browsers), they're a bit redundant.)

Thanks again :)


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Re: Bug#171693: ITP: wondershaper -- a script to set up QoS, mainly for home users

[Joachim Breitner]

Hello,

Am Mit, 2002-12-04 um 14.25 schrieb Joerg Friedrich:
> martin f krafft schrieb am Mittwoch, 04. Dezember 2002 um 13:08:46 +0100:
> > * Package name: wondershaper

> Please notice that the wondershaper has two scripts. First is cbq-based
> and the other htb-based. cbq is no longer developped, but tc from
> iproute does not support htb.
> See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=171277
> 
> Maybe you should wait until a new iproute has been uploaded.

It is quite easy to build a iproute with rhe right htb support (the one
in iproute in sid is too old). You can find one at
http://joachimbreitern.dyndns.org/debian which works qute well with
2.4.20-rc5 and exactly this wondershaper script.

I created it like a NMU, but sent it to the maintainer, since I'm not
yet a debian developer and it is not yet urgent (thought that changes as
soon as 2.4.20 hits sid). If someone wants to NMU it, go ahead.

MfG
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.joachim-breitner.de
JabberID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ UIN: 74513189
GPG-Keyid: 4743206C
Terrorists can take my live.
Only the government can take my freedom.


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Re: description writing guide

[Steve Greenland]

On 04-Dec-02, 12:11 (CST), Ari Pollak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions, 
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty 
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and 
> actual package release.

Because people spend the time to reply to the ITPs correcting the
descriptions, presumably duplicating what is in Colin's proposed guide.

Hopefully we'll put the guide somewhere that it can be found by most
people before they ITP, and people can just point to the guide when a
poor ITP description shows up.

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland

The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net

Re: description writing guide

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mer 04/12/2002 à 19:11, Ari Pollak a écrit :
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions, 
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty 
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and 
> actual package release.

The problem is more in existing package descriptions than in new
packages. Bugs should be submitted when the description is not accurate
(see the module-init-tools description for an example).
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


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Re: description writing guide

[Scott James Remnant]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:01, David B Harris wrote:

> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
> primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
> up very little page space. Since the descriptions should be presented in
> a fixed-width font (for many reasons, this also includes GUI package
> browsers), they're a bit redundant.)
> 
In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
words and after commas and suchlike.

Therefore typists were always taught to press the space key twice after
a full stop.  This rule applies to any *fixed*-width font.

So it would be correct to use two spaces after the full stop in a
package description, because those are renfered with a fixed-width font.

If you are writing text in something that uses variable width fonts, the
program should know about English grammar and render the wider space
itself on any whitespace.  (LaTeX is about the only thing that gets it
right though).

(If this is wrong, blame the secretary I just asked :)

Scott
-- 
Scott James Remnant Have you ever, ever felt like this?  Had strange
http://netsplit.com/  things happen?  Are you going round the twist?


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Re: description writing guide

[Craig Dickson]

David B Harris wrote:

> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
> primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
> up very little page space.

There was an interesting discussion about this in debian-user a few
months back, with inconclusive results.

People who learned to type on mechanical typewriters with fixed-width
fonts generally were taught to use two spaces between sentences (and
perhaps after colons as well). So to say that two spaces "were primarily
used for variable-width fonts" is historically wrong; if anything, they
were, and are, more commonly used with fixed-width fonts.

Technical writing teachers usually go out of their way to get their
students to unlearn the two-spaces rule, and use only one space. I do
not know whether this is related to the fact that most documents
produced by technical writers are typeset with variable-width fonts.

During the debian-user thread on this subject, I did a quick survey of
several professionally-typeset books that were near at hand at the time.
IIRC, I found that about 70-80% of them did not use extra space between
sentences. This seems like enough to show that the general bias in
typesetting is to use a single space between sentences, but it also
shows that it's not an absolute.

As you can see from this message, I have completely given up on two
spaces, and always put only one space between sentences. I originally
learned to type on a typewriter, and was told to use two spaces; I did
this religiously until I did some technical writing and was told by the
other tech writers on staff to use only one space. I then observed that
my documents looked better without the extra space leaving ugly holes in
my paragraphs, and that most books and magazines didn't have the extra
space. I have been a single-space writer ever since.

> Since the descriptions should be presented in
> a fixed-width font (for many reasons, this also includes GUI package
> browsers), they're a bit redundant.)

I don't see any reason why package descriptions shouldn't be presented
in variable-width fonts. The right margin might look a bit ragged
(assuming the program preserves line breaks, which is probably a good
idea to avoid messing up bulletted lists in the description), but so
what? Package descriptions don't usually include tabular data that would
be seriously messed up by variable-width fonts.

Craig

Re: description writing guide

[Craig Dickson]

Scott James Remnant wrote:

> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.
> 
> Therefore typists were always taught to press the space key twice after
> a full stop.  This rule applies to any *fixed*-width font.
> 
> So it would be correct to use two spaces after the full stop in a
> package description, because those are renfered with a fixed-width font.

They are? Everywhere? By everyone?

I would probably agree that _most_ package managers (especially non-GUI
ones, of course) display descriptions in a fixed-width font, but you
can't guarantee that they all do. Nor am I aware of anything in Debian
policy that says they should.

I suppose you could argue that the convention should be in accordance
with the most common user experience, but the whole idea of having
different rules for fixed vs. variable-width fonts runs into trouble
when you don't know what kind of font will ultimately be used by any
given user's configuration.

> If you are writing text in something that uses variable width fonts, the
> program should know about English grammar and render the wider space
> itself on any whitespace.  (LaTeX is about the only thing that gets it
> right though).

Hmm, you just gave a rule specifically for fixed-width fonts, and now
you're tacitly assuming that it applies to variable-width fonts as well?

> (If this is wrong, blame the secretary I just asked :)

There are certainly a lot of professionally-typeset books and magazines
out there that don't use extra space between sentences. It's not
universal, however. Some do, and some don't. My impression is that the
majority of professionally-typeset material does not use extra space.
I'm not sure how useful a rule is, regardless of its authority, if most
of the people who ought to know enough to follow it choose not to do so.
Shall we rigorously avoid splitting infinitives, as well? (That's sort
of a cheap shot, since IIRC recent editions of Strunk & White no longer
argue against split infinitives, but then again, that rule was dropped
because it was so commonly violated, not because the community of
professional grammarians changed their mind about it.)

Craig

Re: description writing guide

[David B Harris]

On 04 Dec 2002 19:19:38 +
Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.

Ahh, allright, so there's still reason to be using them, at least in
fixed-width fonts.

I personally, though, suggest we just do away with it :)


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Re: description writing guide

[David B Harris]

On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:33:35 -0800
Craig Dickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't see any reason why package descriptions shouldn't be presented
> in variable-width fonts. The right margin might look a bit ragged
> (assuming the program preserves line breaks, which is probably a good
> idea to avoid messing up bulletted lists in the description), but so
> what? Package descriptions don't usually include tabular data that
> would be seriously messed up by variable-width fonts.

Just for looks, and to allow some flexibility on the part of the
description writer.

If variable-width fonts are used, then line breaks shouldn't be
preserved. If they're not going to be preserved, there needs to be a
very specific set of rules as to how lines are joined. These already
exist in code, actually; I believe packages.debian.org joins lines.


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Re: description writing guide

[Scott James Remnant]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:48, Craig Dickson wrote:

> Scott James Remnant wrote:
> 
> > In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> > ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> > words and after commas and suchlike.
> > 
> Hmm, you just gave a rule specifically for fixed-width fonts, and now
> you're tacitly assuming that it applies to variable-width fonts as well?
> 
No, I gave a rule for any English sentence.  "Extra space" was not
intend to mean the same as "two fixed-width space characters". 
Apologies for the confusion.

Scott
-- 
Scott James Remnant Have you ever, ever felt like this?  Had strange
http://netsplit.com/  things happen?  Are you going round the twist?


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Re: description writing guide

[Steve Greenland]

On 04-Dec-02, 13:01 (CST), David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? 

(Yes, I've read some of the other responses to this.) 

In standard typography, it is to have extra space after a period ending
a sentence. For fixed-width fonts, this often shows up as two spaces,
as is fairly ugly. For variable width fonts, it's often very subtle,
especially as if the text is also justified, which has a strong effect
on spacing.

However, this is all on *output* (display, whatever). The input text
should have just a single space. The text has to be reformatted to fit
the screen (display area) anyway (even on a terminal), and it's the job
of the reformatter/text renderer/whatever to get it "right".

In practice, of course, most of the common text-based package display
programs (aptitude, apt-cache show) will not bother to attempt to figure
out which periods end a sentence, and thus "need" extra spacing. OTOH a
lot of people (IMO) would argue that the fixed-width two-space end of
sentence is sufficiently ugly that we're better off without it.

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland

The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net

Re: Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[Xavier Roche]

>>I believe that you have hit a compilation limit in the pa backend.  You
>>have an unconditional branch that can't reach its target.  The only work
>>around at the moment is to compile without optimization.  See the comments
>>in pa/pa.md for the "jump" insn.  We need a scratch register to load the
>>address into but it's too late to get one.

Ok thanks for the feedback - this seems to be almost the same problem as for 
s390 platform. (by "no optimization", you mean O0? O1 won't work?)

Re: Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[John David Anglin]

> >>I believe that you have hit a compilation limit in the pa backend.  You
> >>have an unconditional branch that can't reach its target.  The only work
> >>around at the moment is to compile without optimization.  See the comments
> >>in pa/pa.md for the "jump" insn.  We need a scratch register to load the
> >>address into but it's too late to get one.
> 
> Ok thanks for the feedback - this seems to be almost the same problem as for 
> s390 platform. (by "no optimization", you mean O0? O1 won't work?)

Either omit using a -O flag or specify -O0.  -O1 enables some optimization.
If this doesn't work, send me a preprocessed source file and I will investigate
further.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
National Research Council of Canada  (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: description writing guide

[John Hasler]

Craig Dickson writes:
> Hmm, you just gave a rule specifically for fixed-width fonts, and now
> you're tacitly assuming that it applies to variable-width fonts as well?

You are supposed to use an n-space between words and an m-space between
sentences when typesetting.  Using two spaces with fixed-width typefaces is
an attempt to approximate that.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin

Cost Effective Product Documentation

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Processed: Re: Bug#171720: general: Evolution1.2 does not compile on testing

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> reassign 171720 evolution
Bug#171720: general: Evolution1.2 does not compile on testing
Bug reassigned from package `general' to `evolution'.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)

Re: description writing guide

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:19:38PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> If you are writing text in something that uses variable width fonts, the
> program should know about English grammar and render the wider space
> itself on any whitespace.  (LaTeX is about the only thing that gets it
> right though).

*roff also does, provided that you start each sentence on a new line (to
allow it to distinguish between full stops for abbreviations and full
stops at the end of sentences). Thus it's good style for man pages to be
written like this rather than wrapping the start of one sentence onto
the same line as the end of the last:

  There are several common reasons why whatis parsing fails.
  Sometimes authors of manual pages replace \(oq.SH NAME\(cq with
  \(oq.SH MYPROGRAM\(cq, and then
  .B mandb
  cannot find the section from which to extract the information it needs.
  Sometimes authors include a NAME section, but place free-form text there
  rather than \(oqname \e\- description\(cq.
  However, any syntax resembling the above should be accepted.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#171720: general: Evolution1.2 does not compile on testing

[Graham Wilson]

reassign 171720 evolution
thanks

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 04:20:15PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Package: general

this should be filed against the evolution package.

--
gram

update alternatives priorities

[Michael Cardenas]

The man page for update-alternatives does not give a range for the
possible values for priority. 

As a result, when I created a package for the lindowsos warehosue for
ibmjava2-jre, I used a priority of 99, assuming that 100 was the
maximum. 

The problem arose when a user installed another jre, specifically the
jdk1.1 package, which called update-alternatives with a priority of
111. 

I'm fixing our package for ibmjava2-jre, but the man page should be
clarified. Are there any accepted values to use with
update-alternatives? Is it listed in some other documentation
somewhere that I just didn't see? 

thanks

  michael

-- 
michael cardenas   | lead software engineer, lindows.com
hyperpoem.net  | GNU/Linux software developer
people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred

"Every exit is an entry somewhere else." 
- Tom Stoppard


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Re: yacc on arm???

[Othmar Pasteka]

hi,

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:11:43AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> please check
> 
> http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=arm&pkg=gradm&ver=1.5a-1
> 
> bison is in build-depends, and at least on i386, it provides
> bison.yacc, which yacc is linked to via alternatives.
> 
> so what's the deal on ARM?

I'ld guess update-alternatives isn't run correctly. /usr/bin/yacc
should be a link to /etc/alternatives/yacc and that in turn to
some real binary. so, dunno. james?

so long
Othmar

Re: yacc on arm???

[Othmar Pasteka]

hi,

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:11:43AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> please check
> 
> http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=arm&pkg=gradm&ver=1.5a-1
> 
> bison is in build-depends, and at least on i386, it provides
> bison.yacc, which yacc is linked to via alternatives.
> 
> so what's the deal on ARM?

sorry, forgot to add. in the unstable chroot on debussy there is
a symlink and the package compiles fine. so I suspect a bogous
buildd environment.

so long
Othmar

Re: why was there no bug filed?

[Othmar Pasteka]

hi,

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 01:34:07PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1319 +0100]:
> > It's easier to notice these things in a timely fashion if you put
> > 'grep-excuses "your name"' (or just 'grep-excuses' with
> > GREP_EXCUSES_MAINTAINER='your name' in ~/.devscripts) in your crontab.
> nice! still doesn't explain why the bug wasn't reported, does it?

simple answer (colin watson summarized it also quite well): the logfiles
are handled by humans. so, take care about the status of your packages
yourself or be patient :).
ideally you should probably take care of them anyway. at least I
look at the build logs of my newly uploaded packages.
and in any case, it wouldn't harm.

so long
Othmar

Re: debconf template translations from ddtp

[Michael Bramer]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 05:11:26PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Michael Bramer wrote:
> > The ddtp will produce also po-debconf files in future. I must only write
> > some scripts for it...
> 
> I did something like:
> 
> for lang in cs da de es fr hu it ja nl pl pt_BR ru ; do wget 
> http://ddtp.debian.org/debconf/template_unstable/base-config/templates-$lang; 
> done
> rename 's/-/./' templates-*
> debconf-gettextize templates

nice... if some one use debconf-po-files.

> I don't want to use the result for base-config though. The generated po
> files reference only the downloaded templates file, while base-config
> uses three seperate templates files which should be referenced prperly
> by the po files. And I have no tools to tell which of the translations
> on this site are more up-to-date than the ones in debconf.

I see the problem. 

I am not sure, but can you make something like:

for $file in ddtp-po.* 
do 
  cat $file >> po/template.po
done

after your sripte. Gettext should handel this... 

Maybe 'msgmerge' can help. If I understand it in the right way, you can
use this to merge two po-files...

> And of course base-config is in debian cvs where anyone can check in a
> translation, in the po-debconf form that I prefer. So all this close to
> a step backwards for base-config, maybe not so for everything else
> though.

maybe for base-config. But 'all' the other packages don't use
cvs.debian.org, don't use translated debconf templates, don't support
changes in search some translators etc.

Maybe some of the base-config template translators can use this
translations in the ddtp and can update your po files per hand...

Gruss
Grisu

FYI: only 800 debconf templates and we have all debconf templates from
 sid translated into german :-)
-- 
Michael Bramer  -  a Debian Linux Developer  http://www.debsupport.de
PGP: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -- Linux Sysadmin   -- Use Debian Linux
"Wissensdurst ist die fluessige Form von Bildungshunger"

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Brian May]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:48:14AM +, Darren Salt wrote:
> see if you still don't have a problem. Or try giving the server a local (to
> it) address after MAIL FROM: the server should complain unless you're on a
> network which it considers to be local.

Tried that with both qmail and postfix, and it still accepts it.

(ie. telnet to remote server, entered "MAIL FROM: $remoteaddress",
 and the server still accepts it even though it considers it a
 local address).
--
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Brian May]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:12:37PM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> But to be sure you're not getting any false positives, you cruise through
> your "spam" mailbox every now and then, right?

I generally try to (although I know one site that receives so much SPAM
that this is simply not feasible).

However, it is unlikely I would notice if there are any problems.

(my family members seem to subscribe to mailing lists that all look very
much like SPAM (eg. Dilbert); not to mention HTML only bills that look
like SPAM, etc).
--
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Why DDTP? shouldn't it be DPTP? (was Re: spanish translations in DDTP now)

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

I'm curious as to why was DDTP (Debian Documentation Translation Project)
was chosen for the project in helping translate, exclusively, the
package descriptions in Debian.

Shouldn't this be renamed to DPTP (Debian Packages Translation Project).
As far as I know the DDTP has nothing to do with:

- translating .po files in packages (for upstream maintainers)
- translating documentation of the DDP
- translating documents provided by packages (manpages, GNOME/KDE help
pages...)
- translating the installation system
- translating the website

Please, Michael, don't use that name for the project. It's quite
misleading (both internally and to outside of the Debian project) and
should be changed.

Regards

Javi

PS: For example, people looking for translations in Debian might end up
reading http://ddtp.debian.org/ddtp-text/misc/ddts-faq.txt instead of
http://www.debian.org/international/


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Re: description writing guide

[Colin Walters]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 14:01, David B Harris wrote:

> I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
> getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are "attention grabbers".
> Just a few days ago, I saw a package description that said something
> along the lines of "this is the best package for this purpose" ... and
> it certainly wasn't. Even if it was, I think everybody would agree that
> that kind of language doesn't belong in a Debian package description.

I would tend to agree; however, I don't think that more people will say
stuff like "this is the best package" even if we treat descriptions as a
form of advertising, simply because saying "this is the best" isn't an
effective advertisement.  I think it doesn't have a strong effect on
people, because it doesn't say very much.  At least, advertisements I
see around me don't use that kind of language.  Then again though, I'm
not a marketing department :)

> Also, I'm not sure I agree with the third paragraph; everything in it is
> factual and well-said, but it'd be nice if somebody who *didn't* know
> what GTK+ and RAD are could know conclusively, "this is not what I
> want". When you're looking for something specific, but don't know the
> exact package name, the process of elimination is the best start. I know
> I, *personally*, have installed packages which I couldn't immediately
> rule out from the package description because I didn't *quite*
> understand the jargon.

Yeah; there's no one hard and fast rule for which acronyms one should
expand in the description; you just have to think about it a bit and
then go with what one thinks is right.

> glade is a bad example for my point, though, because it has a great
> description :)

Yeah.

> In paragraph five ("So how can we better target these users?"), I'd
> s/minimum/appropriate amount/. I've seen bloody jihads in very
> well-known projects to give only the "minimum of technical jargon", and
> people invariably take it to far. Had they just stressed appropriateness
> of the text to the audience, things would have been much more
> reasonable.

Mmm...OK, I changed it to "a minimal amount of", which doesn't imply it
has to be the absolute minimum, just small.

> In paragraph six, ("So far we've mainly discussed the synopsis line"),
> I'd s/competition/alternatives/; s/advertisement/good documentation/.
> (BTW, if you totally disagree with me about this "advertisement" stuff,
> do replace all references to "advertisements" with "good advertisements"
> and whatnot :)

Done.

> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? 

I think this is an unresolved issue.  I've added a section on this to
the description writing guide.

Re: update alternatives priorities

[Steve Greenland]

On 03-Dec-02, 15:30 (CST), Michael Cardenas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> I'm fixing our package for ibmjava2-jre, but the man page should be
> clarified. Are there any accepted values to use with
> update-alternatives? Is it listed in some other documentation
> somewhere that I just didn't see? 

Fixing? How, by raising the priority? What happens when the maintainer
of some other jre/jdk package raises its?

You've seen the problem, but are on the wrong track for the solution.
What you need to do is negotiate with the other maintainers who use that
alternative and agree on the relative priorities each will use.

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland

The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net

Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Amir Bukhari]

Hi,
I plan to port Xconfigurator from Redhat to Debian, if that will help 
debian to be more simple in installation.
I have search in Internet, if some did that, or there is another tools 
already work on debian, but  I have not found any! If you know one. That 
mean there is no need to port this package.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Oliver Kurth]

On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 09:20:47AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:48:14AM +, Darren Salt wrote:
> > see if you still don't have a problem. Or try giving the server a local (to
> > it) address after MAIL FROM: the server should complain unless you're on a
> > network which it considers to be local.
> 
> Tried that with both qmail and postfix, and it still accepts it.
> 
> (ie. telnet to remote server, entered "MAIL FROM: $remoteaddress",
>  and the server still accepts it even though it considers it a
>  local address).

Did you also give RCPT TO: after that?

$ mx gmx.net
gmx.net MX  10 mx0.gmx.de
gmx.net MX  10 mx0.gmx.net
$ telnet mx0.gmx.net 25
Trying 213.165.64.100...
Connected to mx0.gmx.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 {mx018-rz3} GMX Mailservices ESMTP
EHLO test
250-{mx018-rz3} GMX Mailservices
250-AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
250-AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
250-PIPELINING
250 8BITMIME
MAIL FROM: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
250 {mx018-rz3} ok
RCPT TO: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
550 {mx018-rz3} We do not relay - access denied
Connection closed by foreign host.
$ 

This is from a dial up line. Both addresses exist. The reply is completely
okay, if I wanted to send a mail as [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would have to
authorize myself via the AUTH mechanism or do pop-before-smtp, which I did
not.

The same would have happened if I set MAIL FROM: to another address.

The other way round would have worked, ie. MAIL FROM: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and RCPT TO: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. That's how you would send a mail to me.

Greetings,
Oliver
-- 
Oh my, the stars!
   me, first time I stared at the night sky with my new contact lenses


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Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 09:20:47AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:48:14AM +, Darren Salt wrote:
> > see if you still don't have a problem. Or try giving the server a local (to
> > it) address after MAIL FROM: the server should complain unless you're on a
> > network which it considers to be local.
> 
> Tried that with both qmail and postfix, and it still accepts it.
> 
> (ie. telnet to remote server, entered "MAIL FROM: $remoteaddress",
>  and the server still accepts it even though it considers it a
>  local address).

This is the correct behavior.  I don't know what Darren is talking about but
I've never seen a mail server that refused to accept e-mails with a local
envelope sender from remote hosts.  It should be obvious why this wouldn't 
be a good idea.

--Adam
-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Michael Banck]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:53:46PM +0100, Amir Bukhari wrote:
> I have search in Internet, if some did that, or there is another tools 
> already work on debian, but  I have not found any! If you know one. That 
> mean there is no need to port this package.

Dunno how you feel about this, but dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
works quite fine here.

Michael

-- 
 Comparing Neal to Jeroen is like comparing a demi-god to a fool.

Re: why was there no bug filed?

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1353 +0100]:
> I'd be extremely surprised if the explanation wasn't something along the
> lines of "we didn't get round to it" or "something more important came
> up". Humans, not automatic systems, file bugs.

there is not going to be a week when i don't learn something from
you, oh my sponsor, advocate, and mentor. i thought that the bugs were
automatically filed. wouldn't that be rather easy to accomplish?

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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Re: package not entering testing

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1353 +0100]:
> > okay, so no package will make it to testing in the mean time???
> 
> Correct. Also, multiple punctuation marks are a sign of insanity. ;-)

or of big surprise. then again, i am probably insane.

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Brian May]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:57:05PM +0100, Oliver Kurth wrote:
> MAIL FROM: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> RCPT TO: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Would this work? Or would you need to be authenticated first?

(ie. I thought we were discussing checking purely based on
the MAIL FROM address, not checking for relaying).
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Bug#171693: ITP: wondershaper -- a script to set up QoS, mainly for home users

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Joerg Friedrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.04.1425 +0100]:
> Please notice that the wondershaper has two scripts. First is
> cbq-based and the other htb-based. cbq is no longer developped, but
> tc from iproute does not support htb.

good to know. i asked for tc to include the htb patch a long time ago.
i'll push it again. the problem is that we also need the kernel patch.
that's annoying, to say the least, makes the package almost useless...

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Scott James Remnant]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 23:00, Michael Banck wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:53:46PM +0100, Amir Bukhari wrote:
> > I have search in Internet, if some did that, or there is another tools 
> > already work on debian, but  I have not found any! If you know one. That 
> > mean there is no need to port this package.
> 
> Dunno how you feel about this, but dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
> works quite fine here.
> 
It does kinda assume you know what you want your config file to look
like, asking you about drivers and so-forth.

For those of us who know about X, it's great - it saves me the few
minutes I usually take to roll my own; but for lesser-sandalled users
something simpler (and more prone to fucking up) is probably a good
thing to have as well.

(as long as the existing debconf stuff stays! :)

Scott
-- 
Scott James Remnant Have you ever, ever felt like this?  Had strange
http://netsplit.com/  things happen?  Are you going round the twist?


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Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Michael Banck]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:13:18PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> > Dunno how you feel about this, but dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
> > works quite fine here.
> > 
> It does kinda assume you know what you want your config file to look
> like, asking you about drivers and so-forth.

Install discover, read-edid and mdetect before you install X, and you're
set.

Michael

-- 
A.D. 1492: Christopher Columbus arrives in what he believes to be
"India", but which RMS informs him is actually "GNU/India."

Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Scott James Remnant]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 23:22, Michael Banck wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:13:18PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> > > Dunno how you feel about this, but dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
> > > works quite fine here.
> > > 
> > It does kinda assume you know what you want your config file to look
> > like, asking you about drivers and so-forth.
> 
> Install discover, read-edid and mdetect before you install X, and you're
> set.
> 
Now explain that to my mother! :p

Scott
-- 
Scott James Remnant Have you ever, ever felt like this?  Had strange
http://netsplit.com/  things happen?  Are you going round the twist?


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Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Oliver Kurth]

On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 10:09:31AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:57:05PM +0100, Oliver Kurth wrote:
> > MAIL FROM: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > RCPT TO: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Would this work? Or would you need to be authenticated first?

$ telnet mx0.gmx.net 25
Trying 213.165.64.100...
Connected to mx0.gmx.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 {mx015-rz3} GMX Mailservices ESMTP
MAIL FROM: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
250 {mx015-rz3} ok
RCPT TO: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
250 {mx015-rz3} ok
quit
221 {mx015-rz3} GMX Mailservices
Connection closed by foreign host.

It does. For gmx at least.

> (ie. I thought we were discussing checking purely based on
> the MAIL FROM address, not checking for relaying).

This is handled differently. Some servers check if the domain part
has a valid mx pointer, some do not. But I am not sure, if the
example above works for any server, I am sure you can set it up
so that it does not accept local addresses from other networks
than its own to a local address. It would make sense though, because
many spammers try to set a local MAIL FROM: address. If someone wants
to send a mail with a local MAIL FROM: from a foreign network, he
should be authenticated.

Greetings,
Oliver
-- 
Oh my, the stars!
   me, first time I stared at the night sky with my new contact lenses


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Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[H. S. Teoh]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:27:07PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 23:22, Michael Banck wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:13:18PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> > > > Dunno how you feel about this, but dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
> > > > works quite fine here.
> > > > 
> > > It does kinda assume you know what you want your config file to look
> > > like, asking you about drivers and so-forth.
> > 
> > Install discover, read-edid and mdetect before you install X, and you're
> > set.
> > 
> Now explain that to my mother! :p
[snip]

Maybe what we want is a meta-package that depends on discover, read_edid,
and mdetect. Perhaps with a script thrown in that integrates them into a
single command.

Just my $0.02.


T

-- 
Recently, our IT department hired a bug-fix engineer. He used to work for
Volkswagen.

Re: Why DDTP? shouldn't it be DPTP? (was Re: spanish translations in DDTP now)

[Denis Barbier]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:29:47PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
[...]
> PS: For example, people looking for translations in Debian might end up
> reading http://ddtp.debian.org/ddtp-text/misc/ddts-faq.txt instead of
> http://www.debian.org/international/

Or http://www.debian.org/intl/l10n/

Denis

Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Michael Banck]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 06:42:43PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > > Install discover, read-edid and mdetect before you install X, and you're
> > > set.
> > > 
> > Now explain that to my mother! :p
> [snip]
> 
> Maybe what we want is a meta-package that depends on discover, read_edid,
> and mdetect.

Maybe what we need are people who read package descriptions prior to
install:

Package: xserver-xfree86
[...]
Suggests: discover, mdetect, read-edid
[...]
 If the discover, mdetect and read-edid packages are installed, the debconf
 scripts in this package will use them to attempt automatic configuration
 of the X server based on your information returned by your video card,
 mouse, and monitor.

Michael

-- 
 Intel. Bringing you the cutting-edge technology of 1979
for 22 years now.

Re: description writing guide

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 05:30:39PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 14:01, David B Harris wrote:
> 
> > I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
> > getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are "attention grabbers".
> > Just a few days ago, I saw a package description that said something
> > along the lines of "this is the best package for this purpose" ... and
> > it certainly wasn't. Even if it was, I think everybody would agree that
> > that kind of language doesn't belong in a Debian package description.
> 
> I would tend to agree; however, I don't think that more people will say
> stuff like "this is the best package" even if we treat descriptions as a
> form of advertising, simply because saying "this is the best" isn't an
> effective advertisement.  I think it doesn't have a strong effect on
> people, because it doesn't say very much.  At least, advertisements I
> see around me don't use that kind of language.  Then again though, I'm
> not a marketing department :)

  That might be true, but I would like to see language such as "best
package for foo" explicitly deprecated in the guide.  I've even written
such stuff myself, back before I realized what the problems were.
(hopefully there isn't anything like that left in my packages :) )

> > Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> > is that standard nowadays? 
> 
> I think this is an unresolved issue.  I've added a section on this to
> the description writing guide.

  On an unrelated topic, it would be nice if the description format
allowed whitespace to be collapsed/expanded on wordwrapped lines.  The last
time I checked, it seemed to at least imply that whitespace was sancrosact,
and I found several packages that relied on this in their description.
(sorry, I don't remember which)

  Daniel

-- 
/ Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---\
|   Genius may have its limitations,  |
|   but stupidity is not thus handicapped.|
\--- (if (not (understand-this)) (go-to http://www.schemers.org)) /

Re: description writing guide

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project.  They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debian.  I've been putting in some random efforts here and there to
> comment on new package descriptions, but I finally sat down and
> committed my thoughts on description writing in a semi-coherent form:
> 
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html

  Ooh, goody :)  Does this mean #45943 will finally be fixed?

  Daniel

-- 
/ Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---\
| "Is it too late to extricate myself |
|  from this plot line?"  |
| "Yes." -- Fluble|
\-- Does your computer have Super Cow Powers? --- http://www.debian.org --/

Re: Why DDTP? shouldn't it be DPTP? (was Re: spanish translations in DDTP now)

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:29:47PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> I'm curious as to why was DDTP (Debian Documentation Translation Project)

  It wasn't, the expansion is Debian Description Translation Project.
It's not exactly hard to find that information; the first sentence on
http://ddtp.debian.org tells you it..

  Daniel

-- 
/ Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---\
| "Fluble, the others want you to know that we|
|  have you surrounded with tranquilizer rifles   |
|  and are prepared to use them.  Again."  -- Fluble  |
\-Evil Overlord, Inc: planning your future today. http://www.eviloverlord.com-/

Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:27:07PM +, Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 23:22, Michael Banck wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:13:18PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> > > > Dunno how you feel about this, but dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
> > > > works quite fine here.
> > > > 
> > > It does kinda assume you know what you want your config file to look
> > > like, asking you about drivers and so-forth.
> > 
> > Install discover, read-edid and mdetect before you install X, and you're
> > set.
> > 
> Now explain that to my mother! :p

  That's not a problem with the tools, it's a problem with the
installation process (which currently does just about zero hardware
detection for you, and isn't smart enough to pre-install those packages)

  Daniel

-- 
/ Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---\
|   swapon /dev/ram   |
\--- (if (not (understand-this)) (go-to http://www.schemers.org)) /

Re: Porting Xconfigurator to Debian!

[Scott James Remnant]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 23:50, Michael Banck wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 06:42:43PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > > > Install discover, read-edid and mdetect before you install X, and you're
> > > > set.
> > > > 
> > > Now explain that to my mother! :p
> > [snip]
> > 
> > Maybe what we want is a meta-package that depends on discover, read_edid,
> > and mdetect.
> 
> Maybe what we need are people who read package descriptions prior to
> install:
> 
> Package: xserver-xfree86
> [...]
> Suggests: discover, mdetect, read-edid
> [...]
> 
These aren't included in the "X window system" task...  Given that's how
most users (most notably the non-technical who would benefit from them)
install X - should these be added to that?

Scott
-- 
Scott James Remnant Have you ever, ever felt like this?  Had strange
http://netsplit.com/  things happen?  Are you going round the twist?


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Re:debian-devel

[plzh]

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http://godream.51.net
2002.12.04


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Re: description writing guide

[Colin Walters]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:58, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> was heard to say:
> > I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> > project.  They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> > they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> > Debian.  I've been putting in some random efforts here and there to
> > comment on new package descriptions, but I finally sat down and
> > committed my thoughts on description writing in a semi-coherent form:
> > 
> > http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
> 
>   Ooh, goody :)  Does this mean #45943 will finally be fixed?

Well, we obviously can't force anyone to do anything; but I hope that
having the reasoning more clearly laid out will motivate people...

Re: description writing guide

[Colin Walters]

On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:55, Daniel Burrows wrote:

>   That might be true, but I would like to see language such as "best
> package for foo" explicitly deprecated in the guide.  I've even written
> such stuff myself, back before I realized what the problems were.
> (hopefully there isn't anything like that left in my packages :) )

Ok, done.

>   On an unrelated topic, it would be nice if the description format
> allowed whitespace to be collapsed/expanded on wordwrapped lines.  The last
> time I checked, it seemed to at least imply that whitespace was sancrosact,
> and I found several packages that relied on this in their description.
> (sorry, I don't remember which)

I think this is hard to without switching to a format which allows us to
include more metadata (like XML).  So we can explicitly use stuff like
 and  for lists, instead of relying on ASCII renderings.  That
way we can safely word-wrap the description, instead of just treating it
as the equivalent of .