Re: Explications needed...

[Charles Plessy]

Le Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 02:18:26PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx a écrit :
> 
> I think you're confusing the buildd admin with the porters.  I expect
> porters to read the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, I don't expect
> the same from the buildd admin.

Dear all,

Maybe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" lists should be read by "those who
care" instead of just those who port ? When such a list does not react
anymore, does it really make sense to ask a DD to take the
responsability of a buildd and spend his time for an arch in which he
has no particular interest ?

I think that it would be a much better situation if a buildd admin would
be somebody who particularly cares for the corrseponding port.  This
would warrant some reactivity, and if a core group of DDs interested in
a port can not provide a buildd admin, it may mean that the support for
the existence of the port is not sufficient.

(said after having wasted hours with the s390 port some weeks ago - I
did not guess that the buildd admin was not reading the list on which I
posted my mails).

Have a nice day, and happy new year to those who celebrate it this
evening.

-- 
Charles Plessy
http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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Re: localisation in system wide daemons

[Marc Haber]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 08:48:50 +0100, Szalay Attila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>My problem is not with the bug report language but the cut&pasted log
>messages language.

I have received some bug reports which contain logs from a non-english
locale, but in the cases that I have not been able to figure it out I
have asked the submitter to retry with LANG=C.

Actually no big deal here.

Greetings
Marc

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Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Pierre Habouzit]

On Sat, Dec 30, 2006 at 05:14:30PM +0100, Francois Petillon wrote:
> Marco d'Itri wrote:
> >For a start that sites performing sender verification will partecipate
> >in a DDoS on the mail infrastructure of domains forged by spammers.
> [...]
> 
> There are two things I really dislike in sender verification. First, you 
> are using someone else ressources to fight spam. Second, spammers may 
> adapt in an annoying way (either they will use domains who always answer 
> a 2xx to rcpt to, or they will use verified emails).

  that's true, and IMHO the real reason why sender verify is harmful
(the latter, not the former).


> >Also, sender verification when seen from the side of the victims is
> >indistinguishable from a dictionary attack, and may cause deliverability
> >issues to the hosts attempting it.
> 
> I confirm it : we already have blacklisted IPs as they were issuing too 
> many rcpt-to on not existing emails. These were dued to sender 
> verifications...

  yeah, I know, you're very keen on blacklisting the whole earth :]


On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 03:44:40AM +0100, Francois Petillon wrote:
> Josip Rodin wrote:
> >Yes. Just like any other large amount of traffic could be harmful on
> >big domains.
> 
> I will be more precise. Answering a rcpt-to is, in my case, around 20 to 
> 30% of the job of the "storage cluster" to deliver a mail (I am not 
> talking about CPU, just disks IOs). If the number of mails sent as from 
> our domains is equivalent to the number of mails we receive and if 
> everybody use sender verify, it would mean we have to increase our IOs 
> capacity by 20 to 30% (I know, there is 2 "if" and it is a very rough 
> figure).

  Then honestly, you have a big problem. On the mail servers I
co-administrate, the database lookups that are performed at rcpt-to time
are far less CPU-intensive than the clamav check, and the bayesian
filter check that are done before our redirection service is activated.
If your system is correctly sized, your recipients database should fit
in RAM, and rcpt-to lookups costs 0 IO. So that argument is IMHO
pointless.

> > I guess the counter-argument could be - all those services are
> > explicitly created in order to voluntarily serve requests, but
> > nobody volunteered their server to answer sender verification
> > requests. Yet, a sender verification request is nothing but a
> > three-command SMTP conversation. If someone puts an SMTP server
> > online, and connects it via DNS, it's not exactly strange that other
> > people talk to it.
> 
> No, a rcpt-to is not intended to verify an email but to deliver an mail. 
> You may use VRFY if you want to 1) verify an email and 2) check if you 
> are allowed to verify... :-)

  bwahahaha, I suppose you know the amount of bad faith in such an
argument. Every serious SMTP server disables VRFY for obvious reasons.
And technically, I don't see which specifical task RCPT-TO should do on
your mail server than VRFY would not do.


> IMHO, using rcpt-to to verify sender is just like using resume download 
> to do segmented/parallel downloads. It works but you are using the 
> command in an perverted/antisocial way.

  True, that's a perversion of the protocol. Though, you know, a lot of
antispam measures are protocol perversions, and should not be used if
you are so pure. For example, blacklisting someone because you /think/
he relays more than some fraction of spam[0], by shutting every
connection attempt with a 500 error is a very bad RFC violation,
specifically prohibited in the rfc 2821, whereas it's completely allowed
to issue a QUIT at any point of the SMTP dialog. So sender verifying is
at least 100% compatible with the RFC, even if diverting a command[1].

  So if you see what I'm alluding to, maybe you should avoid to serve us
the SMTP white knight's arguments, from you that seems quite beyond
belief.


  [0] obviously without trying to reach their abuse@ or postmaster@
  address before, that would not be enough fun else.

  [1] For the record, I don't like Sender Verify either, it has very
  poor properties, but the sole argument against it, that has some
  kind of value is that spammers can use it the same way to validate
  their databases. Hence it can make genuine hosts be considered as
  spammers, and that's A Bad Thing ™.
-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Amaya]

Nicolas Boullis wrote:
> What about gender? How is it specified?

Currently it is a drop down that allows you to choose:
- unspecified
- male
- female

Which in my opinion reflects sex and not gender.

I would rather have it as an input field where people can express their
gender in the way they want to, as gender has little to do with
biological sex, and there's more than two options for it. 

Please correct me if I am wrong.


-- 
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 : :' :-- Emma Goldman
 `. `'   Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux (unstable)
   `- www.amayita.com  www.malapecora.com  www.chicasduras.com


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Re: localisation in system wide daemons

[Gabor Gombas]

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 12:15:27PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

> I have received some bug reports which contain logs from a non-english
> locale, but in the cases that I have not been able to figure it out I
> have asked the submitter to retry with LANG=C.
> 
> Actually no big deal here.

If the log message talks about some data corruption and the user wants
to ask how to salvage the data then answering "please reproduce the
exact corruption on an English-speaking system" sounds problematic...

Gabor

-- 
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Hungarian Academy of Sciences
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Jacobo Tarrio]

El sábado, 30 de diciembre de 2006 a las 15:42:33 +, Nicolas Boullis 
escribía:

> >  - the birthDate field isn't currently available via the mail daemon,
> >this will be fixed soon.
> What about gender? How is it specified?
> with a ldapsearch, I can find 1, 2 and 9...

 It appears to be 1 = male, 2 = female, 9 = unspecified.

-- 
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Josip Rodin]

On Sat, Dec 30, 2006 at 02:19:02PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > I figure it's a consequence of the ldapmodify default changetype being
> > 'replace'. I suppose that's a sane default, but it could still be a bit
> > confusing to people who don't know/notice.
> 
> Nothing new here, this is how the mail gateway has handled debian.net DNS
> entries for years.  (If it didn't do it this way, how would you have the
> gateway *delete* old entries?)

Yes, as I said, it's probably a sane default. However, it's far from
impossible to handle deletions if the default is changed, because that same
gateway has functionality for that, cf. 'del field' in doc-mail.html.

-- 
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Wesley J. Landaker]

On Sunday 31 December 2006 05:16, Amaya wrote:
> Nicolas Boullis wrote:
> > What about gender? How is it specified?
>
> Currently it is a drop down that allows you to choose:
> - unspecified
> - male
> - female
>
> Which in my opinion reflects sex and not gender.
>
> I would rather have it as an input field where people can express their
> gender in the way they want to, as gender has little to do with
> biological sex, and there's more than two options for it.

I think if someone *really* doesn't want to put "male" or "female" they can 
just put "unspecified".

-- 
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Can ftpmasters do ONE SIMPLE THING?

[Nathanael Nerode]

Namely, fix bug #224469.  It's really trivial and it's been waiting
for over three years now.  This is just STUPID.

Next DPL election, I want to see someone running on the platform of
adding an extra ftpmaster *whether or not the current ftpmasters
like it*.  Someone who will get simple stuff like this DONE.


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Re: Can ftpmasters do ONE SIMPLE THING?

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 09:17:06AM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> Namely, fix bug #224469.  It's really trivial and it's been waiting
> for over three years now.  This is just STUPID.
> 
> Next DPL election, I want to see someone running on the platform of
> adding an extra ftpmaster *whether or not the current ftpmasters
> like it*.  Someone who will get simple stuff like this DONE.

Afaik, it can't be removed from unstable before oldstable is removed
from the main archive.


Kurt


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Bug#405122: ITP: ocamlwc -- count the lines of code and comments in OCaml sources

[Georg Neis]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Georg Neis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: ocamlwc
  Version : 0.3
  Upstream Author : Jean-Christophe Filliâtre
* URL : http://www.lri.fr/~filliatr/software.en.html
* License : GPLv2
  Programming Lang: OCaml
  Description : count the lines of code and comments in OCaml sources
   ocamlwc is a program to count the number of lines of code and
   documentation in OCaml sources.  It assumes the files to be lexically
   well-formed.


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Re: Can ftpmasters do ONE SIMPLE THING?

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 03:51:38PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> 
> Afaik, it can't be removed from unstable before oldstable is removed
> from the main archive.
> 
AFAICT, his point is that they belong in oldstable, since boot-floppies
went away after Woody.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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status of disk i/o per process

[liran tal]

Hey everyone,

This is more kernel related since I think the information is to be gathered
from /proc but I
decided to give this great mailing list a shot at it first.

I'm wondering how to find out the status of the disk input/ouput usage PER
PROCESS.
At first I thought the answer would be in /proc//stat but according to
'man 5 proc' it isn't listed there...
(I'm aware of the the /proc/stat file which displays disk i/o but that's
globally for the whole system)


Thanks in advance,
Liran.

Re: localisation in system wide daemons

[Nico Golde]

Hi,
* Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-12-31 14:54]:
> On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 12:15:27PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> 
> > I have received some bug reports which contain logs from a non-english
> > locale, but in the cases that I have not been able to figure it out I
> > have asked the submitter to retry with LANG=C.
> > 
> > Actually no big deal here.
> 
> If the log message talks about some data corruption and the user wants
> to ask how to salvage the data then answering "please reproduce the
> exact corruption on an English-speaking system" sounds problematic...

Shouldnt be that big kind of a problem to look in the .po 
file for the english message in such a corner case.
Kind regards
Nico
-- 
Nico Golde - http://www.ngolde.de
JAB: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF
Forget about that mouse with 3/4/5 buttons,
gimme a keyboard with 103/104/105 keys!


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Alexey Feldgendler]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:16:24 +0100, Amaya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Currently it is a drop down that allows you to choose:
- unspecified
- male
- female

Which in my opinion reflects sex and not gender.

I would rather have it as an input field where people can express their
gender in the way they want to, as gender has little to do with
biological sex, and there's more than two options for it.


What other kinds of gender are there? It would be interesting to see some  
examples.



--
Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com


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Re: Bits from the debian-cd team; more CD/DVDs being built regularly

[Steve McIntyre]

Eduard Block wrote:
>#include 
>* Steve McIntyre [Wed, Dec 20 2006, 06:29:04PM]:
>
>> Gnome vs. KDE vs. XFCE
>> ==
>> 
>> The KDE and XFCE variants of CD#1 are now being produced to give more
>> choice to people for initial installation. By default, CD#1 has always
>> meant to be enough to install a fully-functioning system, including a
>
>I think there should be plenty of space on the XFCE variant. Would it be
>possible to put some other popular WMs on this CD? According to popcon
>fluxbox, icewm and wmaker play in the same league as xfwm4.

Yes, probably. We'll need somebody to take a look at the tasks file to
include what's needed. (hint)

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 31 décembre 2006 à 07:29 -0700, Wesley J. Landaker a écrit :
> > I would rather have it as an input field where people can express their
> > gender in the way they want to, as gender has little to do with
> > biological sex, and there's more than two options for it.
> 
> I think if someone *really* doesn't want to put "male" or "female" they can 
> just put "unspecified".

What should Overfiend do then? It's neither male nor female, and its sex
is surely not "unspecified".

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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Marco d'Itri]

On Dec 31, Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What other kinds of gender are there? It would be interesting to see some  
> examples.
Or maybe not. Who cares?

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Amaya]

Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
> What other kinds of gender are there? It would be interesting to see
> some  examples.

I paste some email I already privately answered.

Someone wrote:
> Wildly OT, but don't people generally self identify more with one
> gender or the other?

If "generally" equals "white and rich" (as in clean tab water), yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender#Sex
Gender can refer to the (biological) condition of being male or
female, or less commonly hermaphrodite or neuter, which are
missing.
Not everywhere else: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

Then you have
- Queer (term used to describe a sexual orientation and/or gender
  identity or gender expression that does not conform to heteronormative
  society).
- Gender bender (informal term used to refer to a person who actively
  transgresses, or "bends," expected gender roles)
- Transgender (individuals, behaviors, and groups involving tendencies
  that diverge from the normative gender role (woman or man) commonly,
  but not always, assigned at birth, as well as the role traditionally
  held by society)
- Postgenderism (Advocates of postgenderism argue that the presence of
  gender roles, social stratification, and sexual dimorphisms are
  generally to the detriment of individuals and society, arguing that
  masculinity and femininity are oppressive social constructs)
- Genderfuck is a gender performance which "fucks with" or plays with
  traditional gender identities, gender roles, and gender presentation.
- Genderqueer (someone who identifies as a gender other than "man" or
  "woman," or someone who identifies as neither, both, or some
  combination thereof)

> [I really don't knwo what the proper terms would be that didn't
> conflate both gender and phenotypic sex (which of course, is distinct
> from genetic sex.)]

Me neither, that's why an input field feels less strict to me, and more
welcoming to all individuals.

-- 
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 : :' :-- Emma Goldman
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Kevin Mark]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 06:40:46PM +0100, Amaya wrote:
> Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
> > What other kinds of gender are there? It would be interesting to see
> > some  examples.
> 
> I paste some email I already privately answered.
> 
> Someone wrote:
> > Wildly OT, but don't people generally self identify more with one
> > gender or the other?
> 
> If "generally" equals "white and rich" (as in clean tab water), yes.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender#Sex
> Gender can refer to the (biological) condition of being male or
> female, or less commonly hermaphrodite or neuter, which are
> missing.
> Not everywhere else: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender
> 
> Then you have
> - Queer (term used to describe a sexual orientation and/or gender
>   identity or gender expression that does not conform to heteronormative
>   society).
> - Gender bender (informal term used to refer to a person who actively
>   transgresses, or "bends," expected gender roles)
> - Transgender (individuals, behaviors, and groups involving tendencies
>   that diverge from the normative gender role (woman or man) commonly,
>   but not always, assigned at birth, as well as the role traditionally
>   held by society)
> - Postgenderism (Advocates of postgenderism argue that the presence of
>   gender roles, social stratification, and sexual dimorphisms are
>   generally to the detriment of individuals and society, arguing that
>   masculinity and femininity are oppressive social constructs)
> - Genderfuck is a gender performance which "fucks with" or plays with
>   traditional gender identities, gender roles, and gender presentation.
> - Genderqueer (someone who identifies as a gender other than "man" or
>   "woman," or someone who identifies as neither, both, or some
>   combination thereof)
> 
> > [I really don't knwo what the proper terms would be that didn't
> > conflate both gender and phenotypic sex (which of course, is distinct
> > from genetic sex.)]
> 
> Me neither, that's why an input field feels less strict to me, and more
> welcoming to all individuals.
Whats the use for such data? for postal mail? For gift giving? I've yet
to see anyone in cyberspace address someone as 'genderqueer' or
'male',YMMV.
feliz ano nuevo,
Kev
- -- 
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Miriam Ruiz]

--- Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:

> Whats the use for such data? for postal mail? For gift giving? I've yet
> to see anyone in cyberspace address someone as 'genderqueer' or
> 'male',YMMV.
> feliz ano nuevo,
> Kev

Maybe that question would be a good starting point: What's the use for a
gender field there?

If you are able to answer that question, and depending on what the purpose of
adding a gender field is, then maybe we could know if it's relevant or not.

Greetings and Happy New Year,
Miry


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Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! 
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Russ Allbery]

Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[gender entry in db.debian.org]
> Whats the use for such data? for postal mail? For gift giving? I've yet
> to see anyone in cyberspace address someone as 'genderqueer' or
> 'male',YMMV.

Preferred pronouns is the reason I've usually heard.  Although the field
as constructed currently doesn't help for people who prefer zie/zir or
sie/sir.

(Since this sometimes sparks a long debate and as this is drifting
off-topic, I won't respond to any discussion of alternative third-person
pronouns on the mailing list, but I'm happy to discuss the topic privately
with anyone who had never heard of such things before and is curious.)

-- 
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Re: status of disk i/o per process

[Steinar H. Gunderson]

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 05:11:50PM +0200, liran tal wrote:
> This is more kernel related since I think the information is to be gathered
> from /proc but I
> decided to give this great mailing list a shot at it first.
>
> I'm wondering how to find out the status of the disk input/ouput usage PER
> PROCESS.

You don't say anything about operating system, but in Linux >= 2.6.19 you can
use blktrace, which gives you this information and much more.

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Re: status of disk i/o per process

[Steinar H. Gunderson]

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 07:19:43PM +0100, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
> You don't say anything about operating system, but in Linux >= 2.6.19 you can
> use blktrace, which gives you this information and much more.

Hm, looking at the list again it's kind of obvious what operating system you
meant :-)

Anyhow, -devel is the wrong list for such questions; try -user next time.

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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Amaya]

Kevin Mark wrote:
> Whats the use for such data? for postal mail? For gift giving? I've
> yet to see anyone in cyberspace address someone as 'genderqueer' or
> 'male',YMMV.

Yeah, I also wonder what this LDAP field is good for, but if we are
going to have it, let's make it, at least, accurate.

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 : :' :-- Emma Goldman
 `. `'   Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux (unstable)
   `- www.amayita.com  www.malapecora.com  www.chicasduras.com


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Re: status of disk i/o per process

[liran tal]

Thanks for the reply Steinar.
The blktrace is a tool and I was wondering if there's something in /proc
itself that I can use
to get some info regarding the disk i/o per process.

Thanks again.


On 12/31/06, Steinar H. Gunderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 07:19:43PM +0100, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
> You don't say anything about operating system, but in Linux >= 2.6.19you can
> use blktrace, which gives you this information and much more.

Hm, looking at the list again it's kind of obvious what operating system
you
meant :-)

Anyhow, -devel is the wrong list for such questions; try -user next time.

/* Steinar */
--
Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/

Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Marco d'Itri]

On Dec 31, Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Maybe that question would be a good starting point: What's the use for a
> gender field there?
Stalking.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Paul Waring]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:16:24 +0100, Amaya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nicolas Boullis wrote:
>> What about gender? How is it specified?
> 
> Currently it is a drop down that allows you to choose:
> - unspecified
> - male
> - female
> 
> Which in my opinion reflects sex and not gender.

Would it not therefore be simpler to just rename the option as 'sex' instead of 
'gender'? That would solve the argument about what options there should be 
(presumably the selected option can be changed at a later date if you want to 
argue that someone can biologically change from one sex to another).

Paul


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Kevin Mark]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 07:18:36PM +0100, Amaya wrote:
> Kevin Mark wrote:
> > Whats the use for such data? for postal mail? For gift giving? I've
> > yet to see anyone in cyberspace address someone as 'genderqueer' or
> > 'male',YMMV.
> 
> Yeah, I also wonder what this LDAP field is good for, but if we are
> going to have it, let's make it, at least, accurate.
Hi Amaya,
I was considering: sex & gender options and realized that the only
reasonably non-changing question would be 'sex chromosomes'[0] which can be
XX or XY (unless gravity or any person with relevant info can add to
this). 'Men' can add and remove 'parts' as 'women' can, so 'organs' are
not fixed in this age, unless you count 'original parts' and some folks
like to use 'temporary' parts. 
cherio,
Kev
[0] http://biology.about.com/library/weekly/aa091103a.htm
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Miriam Ruiz]

--- Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:

> Hi Amaya,
> I was considering: sex & gender options and realized that the only
> reasonably non-changing question would be 'sex chromosomes'[0] which can be
> XX or XY (unless gravity or any person with relevant info can add to
> this). 'Men' can add and remove 'parts' as 'women' can, so 'organs' are
> not fixed in this age, unless you count 'original parts' and some folks
> like to use 'temporary' parts. 
> cherio,
> Kev
> [0] http://biology.about.com/library/weekly/aa091103a.htm

I don't think neither genotype nor which "parts" you have or not can be
relevant in any way for DD database. The only important thing could be the
social relevance of it, and that means gender. Any other solution seems more
trying to justify that field than anything really useful.

Greetings,
Miry


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Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! 
Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es 


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Happy New Year to all the developers and helpers on Debian!

[Kenward Vaughan]

Folks,

You do a wonderful job, keeping the best dist. flowing along and
helping those who need it, on this list.  I started with Debian and
can't see myself changing ever.  It works too well, even for a bumbling
hobbyist like myself.

Please, PLEASE keep up the great work that is needed for a project and
community like this to thrive!  My new year's hat is off to you all!


Kenward
-- 
In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be 
_teachers_ and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, 
because passing civilization along from one generation to the next 
ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone 
could have. - Lee Iacocca


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Kevin Mark]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 09:57:31PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 
> --- Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> 
> > Hi Amaya,
> > I was considering: sex & gender options and realized that the only
> > reasonably non-changing question would be 'sex chromosomes'[0] which can be
> > XX or XY (unless gravity or any person with relevant info can add to
> > this). 'Men' can add and remove 'parts' as 'women' can, so 'organs' are
> > not fixed in this age, unless you count 'original parts' and some folks
> > like to use 'temporary' parts. 
> > cherio,
> > Kev
> > [0] http://biology.about.com/library/weekly/aa091103a.htm
> 
Hi Miry,

> social relevance of it, and that means gender. Any other solution seems more
> trying to justify that field than anything really useful.
When you specify 'social' relevance, does that mean 'the larger society'
or 'the Debian society'? And relevant to what? Dancing partners at
Debconf? Free software has both social and technical elements. The
techincal bits have no gender, AFIACT. In regards to the social bits, I
see FLOSS as moving towards a sphere where people define who and what
they are, regardless of their XX or XY bits. The distinction is made
when interfacing with the outside world when folks need insurance,
health care, or drivers license and must check a box.YMMV.
feliz ano nuevo!
Kev
ps. that does not mean that peoples attributes should be forgotten, for
the world would be boring otherwise.
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Miriam Ruiz]

--- Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:

> Hi Miry,
> 
> > social relevance of it, and that means gender. Any other solution seems
> more
> > trying to justify that field than anything really useful.
> When you specify 'social' relevance, does that mean 'the larger society'
> or 'the Debian society'? And relevant to what? Dancing partners at
> Debconf? Free software has both social and technical elements. The
> techincal bits have no gender, AFIACT. In regards to the social bits, I
> see FLOSS as moving towards a sphere where people define who and what
> they are, regardless of their XX or XY bits. The distinction is made
> when interfacing with the outside world when folks need insurance,
> health care, or drivers license and must check a box.YMMV.
> feliz ano nuevo!
> Kev
> ps. that does not mean that peoples attributes should be forgotten, for
> the world would be boring otherwise.

I'm sorry I haven't explained myself more clearly. I'll try to make my point a
bit more explicit:

1) I don't see any relevance in having a gender field. The only exception I
might find is for genderifying the texts in web pages and mails, or maybe for
statistics.

2) I see even less relevance in having medical data, such as the genotype (XX,
XY or whatever), genital data, etc.

Miry


__
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Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! 
Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es 


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Bug#405151: ITP: libclamav-client-perl -- A client for the ClamAV virus scanner daemon

[Devin Carraway]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Devin Carraway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: libclamav-client-perl
  Version : 0.11
  Upstream Author : Julian Mehnle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/ClamAV-Client/
* License : GPL, Artistic
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : A client for the ClamAV virus scanner daemon

 This package supplies ClamAV::Client, a Perl interface to
 the ClamAV virus scanner via the clamd daemon.  It allows
 connection either over a UNIX domain socket to a local
 clamd, via TCP to a remote one.

 The client package fully implements the clamd socket protocol,
 with both scanning and daemon management calls provided.


... this will be uploaded after Etch ships, unless there's some
specific need to upload it to experimental.  Upload candidates
are in http://devin.com/debian/ if anyone wants 'em.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-1-amd64
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Russ Allbery]

Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I was considering: sex & gender options and realized that the only
> reasonably non-changing question would be 'sex chromosomes'[0] which can
> be XX or XY (unless gravity or any person with relevant info can add to
> this).

Sex chromosones in humans can, indeed, be found in several combinations
other than XX or XY (XO, XXX, XXY, XYY, XO/XY, XX male, and XY female at
the least), and we don't even know for sure that the full set of
possibilities is enumerable.  Also, sex chromosones aren't the same thing
as gender.  Generally speaking, and this is a difficult area of language
in which all generalizations are suspect, "sex" is a statement about a
biological property and "gender" is a statement about a social property.

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Kevin Mark]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 12:06:55AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 
> 1) I don't see any relevance in having a gender field. The only exception I
> might find is for genderifying the texts in web pages and mails, or maybe for
> statistics.
> 
> 2) I see even less relevance in having medical data, such as the genotype (XX,
> XY or whatever), genital data, etc.
> 
> Miry
That certainly clears things up. I was just reading a post of 'princess
leia'(on live.linuxchix.org) about the irc habit of joining a forum with
'hi guys!' when there ARE women present. So she expect folks to not
address a crowd as all male when there may not be in fact all men and
how some men object to her voicing her displeasure with their lack of
awareness. And then you bring up the idea that you find a 'gender' field
not relevent to LDAP developer data. Do you think it relevent to keep
stats of 'women', do you want to keep a field that states the desired
way you want to be addressed in email, mail or irc? or other
situation-specific ways? These are certainly unclear issue for me.
Cheers,
Kev
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Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates

[Kevin Mark]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 04:15:53PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > I was considering: sex & gender options and realized that the only
> > reasonably non-changing question would be 'sex chromosomes'[0] which can
> > be XX or XY (unless gravity or any person with relevant info can add to
> > this).
> 
> Sex chromosones in humans can, indeed, be found in several combinations
> other than XX or XY (XO, XXX, XXY, XYY, XO/XY, XX male, and XY female at
> the least), and we don't even know for sure that the full set of
> possibilities is enumerable.  Also, sex chromosones aren't the same thing
> as gender.  Generally speaking, and this is a difficult area of language
> in which all generalizations are suspect, "sex" is a statement about a
> biological property and "gender" is a statement about a social property.
Hi Russ,
thats for the elucidation... Now I'm even more confused x-) I'm blinded
by science!(thanks to thomas dolby). More to ponder in the comming year.
cheers,
Kev
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Re: Happy New Year to all the developers and helpers on Debian!

[Baz]

On 12/31/06, Kenward Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Folks,

You do a wonderful job, keeping the best dist. flowing along and
helping those who need it, on this list.  I started with Debian and
can't see myself changing ever.  It works too well, even for a bumbling
hobbyist like myself.

Please, PLEASE keep up the great work that is needed for a project and
community like this to thrive!  My new year's hat is off to you all!


Kenward
--
In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be
_teachers_ and the rest of us would have to settle for something less,
because passing civilization along from one generation to the next
ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone
could have. - Lee Iacocca


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I'll second that.  I've tried several (SUSE 10.1, Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Freespire
& SLED 10.0) and Debian Etch is still my favorite.  Please keep up the good
work!  As well, the help afforded from other users is a major factor I've
stayed with it.

Happy holidays,
Sebastian

--
"...heart and soulone will burn."
- Joy Division