Re: Tcl in Debian - volunteers needed
Ian Jackson wrote:
> David N. Welton writes ("Tcl in Debian - volunteers needed"):
>
>>Apparently some of the packages I maintain were removed from Debian's
>>testing distribution this evening: rivet, tcldom, tclxml and tclsoap,
>>because of open bugs against them that I haven't found the time to
>>close. "My bad", as they say.
>
>
> I would like to volunteer to take:
> tclparser, tclvfs, libtk-img
Cool, have at it - thanks!
> If you can't find anyone else then I could also take:
> gdtclft, tclthread
Looks like these are yours too. gdtclft is pretty inactive, tclthread
does need an eye kept on it, though.
--
David N. Welton
- http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Linux, Open Source Consulting
- http://www.dedasys.com/
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Tcl in Debian - volunteers needed
[Apologies if this went out more than once. Thunderbird is being weird... Please CC replies to me. Thanks!] Hi Debian developers and Tcl users, Apparently some of the packages I maintain were removed from Debian's testing distribution this evening: rivet, tcldom, tclxml and tclsoap, because of open bugs against them that I haven't found the time to close. "My bad", as they say. I will hopefully find the time to fix and upload new versions next week, however, realistically in the long term I don't see myself as having much time for maintaining most of the Tcl packages I currently have: tclparser, tclxml, mysqltcl, tkcon, tclsoap, tclthread, tcldom, tdom, tclvfs, gdtclft, tclexpat, and libtk-img (Img) I would like someone else to take these over. Those that aren't, may be removed from Debian (and consequently, Ubuntu). I intend to keep looking after rivet, tclmagick, being part of the upstream teams for each. Indeed, I'll have a bit more time for them if someone can give the other packages a good home. It's probably easiest if someone already in Debian can do this, because a newcomer will have to face a fair amount of bureaucracy to deal with Debian, and I do not have the time to assist with that, nor am I really all that familiar with the procedures(*) involved - my involvement in Debian began in 1997, prior to many of the rules and regulations that have subsequently been put in place. That said, it *would* be nice to get some Tcl people interested in Debian and Ubuntu, because they are extremely well done Linux distributions whose popularity is on the rise (there were rumors, since denied, that Google was going to distribute a desktop Linux based on Ubuntu). I just wanted to warn you up front that it will require some real commitment that at times goes beyond the technical abilities strictly necessary to maintain the aforementioned packages. Thanks, -- David N. Welton - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Linux, Open Source Consulting - http://www.dedasys.com/ (*) "New maintainer": http://www.debian.org/devel/join/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about the GR
Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:59:15 +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > >>1. debian-legal is wrong, the GFDL is compatable with the DFSG and >> thus should be included in main. > > > Looking over the arguments for and against it in -legal, I am > trying to ascertain if this stance has a leg to stand on. ... and ? I am still trying to ascertain whether debian-legal has a leg to stand on. -- David N. Welton - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Linux, Open Source Consulting - http://www.dedasys.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: perl and libtk-img
Michel Loos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Em Qui, 2003-03-27 às 19:38, David N. Welton escreveu: > > [ Please CC me in replies ] > > Hi, I have emailed the guy who submitted this bug, with no answer. > > Any Perl people want to have a look at it and see if the problem > > behavior is still there? > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=142998 > The trouble with this bug is that Tk::JPEG is not in debian, you > must get it from CPAN. I use it on instable after debianizing and > have no troubles. > The message showed in this bug is same on Windows with ActivePerl > packages. Seems to be a problem with an old version of Tk::JPEG Ah, ok, thankyou very much for the clarification! Ciao, -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
Re: Recommending non-free software
Hiding information is bad. If that's what the upstream author thinks, then so be it. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Conference 2 Registration
Jeroen Dekkers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Of course it's nice of them that they help, but I still think it's > wrong that the registration page is hosted on a server with non-free > software and with a link to a site trying to sell non-free > products. Certainly because we can make the registration form with > free software without any links to non-free stuff. You're not too far off the mark, but the missing ingredient here is you getting off your ass and making it happen (i.e. writing code, finding someone to host the machine) instead of just complaining and telling other people what they should and shouldn't do. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache2 Debian Packages
Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "we can tell that a Debian release is about to happen". Or > something. "I sense a disturbance in the force" ? -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't do this (code fragment)
And what's more, it only indents two at a time. Heretics! -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: stat vs stat64 - ugly problem
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Previously David N. Welton wrote: > > Right, so how do we fix this? It is our problem, in that we need > > to make the software we distribute work together. But are you > > also saying that upstream shouldn't be setting that bit in their > > header file? > As long as the API (and ABI) never exports things like struct stat > and offset_t (ie things that are affected by enabling LFS) it should > not matter if you link things that are compiled with LFS with things > that are not. It wouldn't cause problems if you did stat64(&foo) where foo is a regular 'struct stat'? -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: stat vs stat64 - ugly problem
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The Problem here is, that some header files define the LFS. This > > should not be done. > Indeed, doing that is broken behaviour. Grepping about on my system, I see that mysql does it too, in my_config.h: #define _FILE_OFFSET_BITS 64 > > One good Idea would be to include the define in stat.h :) > No way, that would break lots of things. Right, so how do we fix this? It is our problem, in that we need to make the software we distribute work together. But are you also saying that upstream shouldn't be setting that bit in their header file? -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: stat vs stat64 - ugly problem
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Previously David N. Welton wrote: > > I don't think it's right that two pieces of software can declare > > the same struct and have them come out different things... there's > > something wrong. > Bogus, if you compile them with the same options then will the the > same. If you compile one with LFS and one without you can expect > problems as you have demonstrated. Well then that's a problem, because we need to make sure everything in Debian that could be combined is compiled with the these same things, otherwise, there is a lot of room for nasty bugs. In any case, changing the order of two header files doesn't seem offhand like the sort of thing that would go about changing the system definitions. That's poor modularity, in my opinion, because neither Apache nor Python, Tcl or anything else but libc6 owns the stuff in include/sys/. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: stat vs stat64 - ugly problem
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Previously David N. Welton wrote: > > I'm not sure exactly what problems this may cause, but I don't > > like the looks of it... Interestingly (... or not) enough, that > > define isn't created when building locally (version 1.3.23-dev)... > It doesn't cause any problems at all, it is by design. Actually it caused me a great deal of problems - hours spent tracking down a bug in mod_dtcl, that as far as I can tell, is caused by this mismatch. I don't think it's right that two pieces of software can declare the same struct and have them come out different things... there's something wrong. You can convince me that it's Apache, libc, Tcl, mod_dtcl, or whatever else, but something doesn't seem right to me. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
stat vs stat64 - ugly problem
FILE 1
#include "httpd.h"
#include
int main() {
struct stat foo;
printf("size of stat __pad1 is %d\n", sizeof(foo.__pad1));
}
FILE 2
#include
#include "httpd.h"
int main() {
struct stat foo;
printf("size of stat __pad1 is %d\n", sizeof(foo.__pad1));
}
These produce different code, because of #define _FILE_OFFSET_BITS 64
in /usr/include/apache-1.3/ap_config_auto.h.
I'm not sure exactly what problems this may cause, but I don't like
the looks of it... Interestingly (... or not) enough, that define
isn't created when building locally (version 1.3.23-dev)...
Hrm...
--
David N. Welton
Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: Some thoughts about problems within Debian
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Yes, of course we want them all to use Debian; we claim to be the > Universal Operating System. > What the exact steps should be to accomplish this goal aren't > completely clear to me, and I doubt they are to anyone else either. How about a universal configuration system, using, say, Scheme or something similar. That way we can configure everything either programmatically *or* 'by hand' without any of those crappy config programs! Power for power users, GUI for those who don't want to delve into the guts of stuff. Then, when we're done with that (he he) we can rename things to be more informative. "etc"? It should be "config", of course! etc... -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for January 4, 2002
BugScan reporter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Package: erlang-slang (debian/main) > Maintainer: Mark Ng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 121460 erlang-slang doesn't build from source on powerpc (at least) Fixed, and patch sent directly to the maintainer. Will NMU if I don't hear back from said maintainer... -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: Debian Weekly News - December 27th, 2001
Christer Gundersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Tried FreeBSD? Seen the ports? Take a look at www.freshports.org, > what about something like that? that will help people a lot. at > leased me :) I made an attempt to create a 'Debian Package of the Week' page, but I don't have time to maintain it and come up with new ones each week. It's available at http://people.debian.org/~davidw/pow/ Maybe the DebianPlanet people would be interested in a feature like that? -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: An alarming trend (no it's not flaimbait.) (fwd)
Anthony Towns writes: > On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:07:57PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote: > > As was stated elsewhere, the best way you can make a meaningful > > contribution is to file bugs that are "higher level" than > > "normal", in order to draw attention to broken packages. > Oh god no. Please no. Inflating bug severeties just makes it harder > to do releases; if there's a problem with normal bugs being ignored > (and, IMO, there is), it needs to be addressed directly, not worked > around by filing everything as important or higher. If the software is broken enough that people find it really doesn't work for its intended purpose, I agree with Henrique's idea that a bug should be filed that will block the software from getting released. > Hrm. At least tell me that I'm misreading this, and what you meant > to say was `` "higher quality" than "average" '' or something. If it's going to be a bug that blocks the package from getting into Debian releases, it better be well thought out, and high-quality, and certainly not something used lightly. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: An alarming trend (no it's not flaimbait.) (fwd)
Brian, I understand your complaints. It bugs me, too, to find software not maintained well. We are volunteers, though, and as you realize, it takes a lot of time to do this, and so it happens, on occasion that someone just can't keep up. I don't think it's really fair of people to tell you "hey, see if you can do it better", as you may not have the free time to work on something, let alone jump through the beaurocratic hoops that Debian places in the way of people who want to help. If you don't have the time, you'll probably end up not maintaining it well either;-) As was stated elsewhere, the best way you can make a meaningful contribution is to file bugs that are "higher level" than "normal", in order to draw attention to broken packages. Even this will take you some time to do properly, as you should read through the existing reports in order to avoid duplicates. However, it's a very valuable service. I know I appreciate finding that someone has already reported a problem, and by doing so, possibly blocking buggy software from going into 'testing' or being released. Thanks for your time, and happy Debian'ing, -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: Quake 2 sources GPL'd
Ben Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So if I create a game with _no_ levels, but the tools to create > them, then is it none-free? Can it be used for its intended purpose without the data files? For anything? If these tools are out there, then presumably someone will use them to create a minimal set of free data files. At that time, then the whole thing can go into main. By the way, isn't "contrib" a silly and misleading name? -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: A language by any other name
Martijn van Oosterhout writes: > On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 07:44:05AM +0200, David N. Welton wrote: > > Maybe we should just use Debian English or Internet English, wich > > means: produce something legible by other inhabitants of the > > Internet and/or Debian, and who cares about the details. > Now there's a definition I can live with. > English == Debian English == Legible English > As long as it's readable, it's fine. > Doesn't solve the problem of the default charset though... iso8859-1 covers most people, doesn't it? I mean, as a default. I admit I don't know a lot about charsets - iso8859-1 is enough for me to comunicate in Italian and English. Or the default programming language: I would recommend elastiC. ;-) -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: A language by any other name
Chris Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Seems to me that "American English", "Australian English", "British > English", "Singaporese(?) English", "Hong Kong English", "Canadian > English", etc. are most appropriate; there is no reason for one > particular variant to be called "English." As per my original suggestion. We are going to get nowhere trying to force something down people's throats. We should not force anyone to write in American or British or whatever English, or have either one be The English that we use. Otherwise, we will just go on with this stupid debate. Oh, and as someon from the US, the language I speak is English. Got that? All of you(*) making snide remarks that it's not "really" English can "jolly well fuck off", to turn a phrase:-) I don't speak American - I speak English. American English, if you want to qualify it, is fine, but the language is English. It's quite real. If it weren't, you wouldn't be able to read this. (*) Especially those of you who don't even speak English as your native language - where do you get off on telling me what I speak?! Maybe we should just use Debian English or Internet English, wich means: produce something legible by other inhabitants of the Internet and/or Debian, and who cares about the details. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: proposal for an Apache (web server) task force
Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Andres Seco Hernandez writes: > > Well, Apache and its related stuff is big enough to require an special > > work. > I've been very unhappy in the /etc/init.d/apache script - I'd like > if it would check the configuration before stop or restart and if it > would be possible to start Apache with option -X for testing > purposes. If you need to start it with -X, just do it by hand. That's what I do when I'm hacking on mod_dtcl. I'm not really sure that modes of operation belong in init.d scripts... Ciao, -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: proposal for an Apache (web server) task force
Sounds like a good idea. I would also be willing to help out if anything is needed from the ASF, although I'm not involved with the server project itself. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: [RFC] Developer documentation packages.
"Francesco P. Lovergine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Some e-books are available also under Open Publication License. > What do you think of a pseudo package `ebooks-dev' which collects as > many guides, faqs and e-books as possible (in HTML format whenever > possible)? Is this a well-known question? What are your comments > about this argument? Books are big. Something that pulls in a lot of them is likely to be quite heavy. I think a package called 'books index' would make more sense. This would provide an index to all the book packages that are available in Debian, instructing the user on how to go about downloading it. Does something like this make sense? Ciao, -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: A language by any other name
Nick Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > 2 aliases, "english" for the English, "american" for the Americans. I don't speak 'american', though, I speak 'english', and will look for that, as will the rest of my compatriots, when asked to select the language I speak. Nice try for a compromise, but it won't work. "British English" and "American English" is ok, though, and is probably the only fair way to do this (or use English(American) and English(British) so they sort next to one another?). Before we go off on too much of a flame war here, *please* note that Marcelo says that Ben wants a consensus. Does anyone believe that a *consensus* is possible? -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: A language by any other name
"Marcelo E. Magallon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > My bug was triggered by the fact that gdm offers a long selection > of languages, among them English (without bells and whistles, just > plain old "English") and in case you select that, it sets the > environment variable LANG to that, "english". Maybe it should ask if you want british or american english. Trying to decide which one is 'the' English is probably a good recipe for a flame war with no result. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
ifupdown needs help?
I see that there are a lot of old bugs in ifupdown, some of which include patches. Are you having trouble working on this package? Could you use some help? -- David N. Welton Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Previously Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > > OK, but who have choose that nslookup is deprecated in favour of > > the other two tools ? > It's authors. > > Why we have to remove nsllokup from debian ? > You are free to take an old bind source and create a nslookup > package based on those. Adding readline support, while you're at it, would be really nice:-) Ciao, -- David N. Welton Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/ Work: http://www.innominate.com/
Re: Packages not making it into testing
Domenico Andreoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 03:53:15PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > + gdb uploaded 250 days ago, out of date by 240 days! doesn't > > build on sparc, see 86882 > i'd like to adopt this, i'll mail to the maintainer. Do you have the resources to try and follow it on non-intel architectures as well? Gdb is a hairy package... Ciao, -- David N. Welton Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/ Work: http://www.innominate.com/
Re: Close list
"Carl B. Constantine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'm getting tired of getting spam through mail lists I subscribe to > that have an open post policy. Can we please close the debian-devel > and other such lists that "should" be closed. I don't think > trademark domains is doing anything for debian development. Before you go starting another flame war, did you go back and look through the list history for 'closed list' et similae? Maybe you could do that, and respond to the concerns raised in *those* flame wars... -- David N. Welton Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/ Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org
End of the line for Epic?
I'm wondering if anyone still uses this package anymore. It has been superceded by epic4 for hrmmm it must be several years. Is it time for it to go? It's not like it's broken or it has any hideous bugs, but it's not going anyplace, either. -- David N. Welton, Responsabile Progetti Open Source, Linuxcare Italia spa tel +39.049.8043411 fax +39.049.8043412 cel +39.348.2879508 [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ Linuxcare. Support for the revolution. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RBL report..
Is there any kind of database to filter out time-wasting, vitriolic arguments full of personal attacks, about things that have nothing to do with Debian? I guess there is, but come on people, enough is enough. Just hit the delete key and get over it. There are tons of things to do to make Debian better, go do those instead of wasting your time with this drivel. (rant 'off) -- David N. Welton, Responsabile Progetti Open Source, Linuxcare Italia spa tel +39.049.8043411 fax +39.049.8043412 cel +39.348.2879508 [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ Linuxcare. Support for the revolution.
Random idea: packages with lots of bugs on WNPP
Sitting around thinking about nothing in particular, and it occurred to me that it might be useful to include some of the buggier packages on the WNPP. This might be a good way to get people to work on fixing these packages, instead of seeking out new things to package. Maybe we could include all packages with more than X bugs.. the top X percent.. Maybe we could have some means of excluding several of the bigger ones such as X, that do have active maintainers, but naturally, due to their size, have lots of bugs. Anyway.. just thought I'd toss this out for consideration. -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw --Debian GNU/Linux-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
