Re: Bits from the Diversity Team
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:31:57AM +0200, Rhonda D'Vine wrote: > It's only derailing if you make it derailing, btw. This effort is not > there to separate. It's meant to make it clear that the Debian project > is a welcoming environment. Always has been - and will stay one. You are responding to a notorious well-known troll. "Ivan Ivanow" is a sock-puppet of fake mikeeusa, who tries to pretend to be a separate person. The identities are: * real mikeeusa: a barely literate misogynist, who once wrote a poorly made "slots" game and a few other pieces. Hasn't been heard of in a while, and appears to hold genuine batshit crazy misogynist views. * fake mikeeusa: a troll who pretends to be the former, but can be trivially distinguished from the former by language, type of arguments, etc. Uses multiple accounts on *chan-related mail services, usually cock.li (which provides many domain names). His modus operandi is jumping onto whatever the biggest ongoing flamewar is, writing an extreme statement that's just plausible enough to not be dismissed immediately, and repeatedly repeating it without addressing any criticism. Such repeats used to be more varied in the past but he got lazy and just reposts the same thing over and over these days. These posts serve mostly as a vessel to inject misogynist content, but they're very clearly a false flag operation meant to dirty whoever even partially agrees to the primary topic. By the controversies being quite well researched, it's quite clear which side of Poe's law this person is on. * "Ivan Ivanow" -- a sockpuppet of the previous, operating from a single gmail account, and almost always seen together with fakemikee. And yeah, derailing _is_ the primary purpose. > Linus is a good example here: He only recently started to understood that > his very rude and offensive way of addressing people actually *does* drive > people away. I disagree here: Linus is great because he's not afraid to call a spade a spade. And after an episode of the contrary and trying to be artificially polite, he's mostly back to his old self. I haven't seen him attacking any reasonably acting person, he attacks _ideas_. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Did ya know that typing "test -j8" instead of "ctest -j8" ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ will make your testsuite pass much faster, and fix bugs? ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Bits from the Diversity Team
Hi. The seperating is happening in you. If you write "normal coders + women coders" you already state that you don't consider women be normal, too. Thanks for proving the point that visibility in fact _is_ needed here. It's only derailing if you make it derailing, btw. This effort is not there to separate. It's meant to make it clear that the Debian project is a welcoming environment. Always has been - and will stay one. Yes, I agree with you that it _should_ be completely irrelevant. The fact though is that there are people who disagree with you. Who are very vocal about it. Linus is a good example here: He only recently started to understood that his very rude and offensive way of addressing people actually *does* drive people away. And those are usually marginalized people. We can't afford to say we are fine with a white boy's club and continue as if that's not an issue to not invite underrepresented people to join our effort. We need the help of everyone willing in the Free Software movement to continue with bringing Free Software to the world. And yes again, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that it should be completely irrelevant. So, thanks a lot for your feedback. Let's work together to make this a great place for everyone to work together. :) Enjoy, Rhonda On 4/19/19 10:48 AM, Ivan Ivanov wrote: > Translation of message from eperezsantos : > > "Are we also following this trend? It is totally unnecessary in an OS. > Anyway ... What remains for us to see." > > Personally I agree with him. It should be completely irrelevant in the > coding community > what is your gender, and Linus Torvalds once said: "Talk is cheap, > show me the code." > Please focus on coding instead of this "muh diversity" stuff, because > it is dividing the community > (e.g. to one more separate channel that you're promoting now) and > reducing the productivity. > Because, instead of "normal coders + women coders" there's going to be > one more subgroup > "LGBTIQA coders" and such splitting is at least reducing the > efficiency of communication. > > I strongly believe that this "diversity stuff" is radically off-topic > and could be derailing our course. > There are already a lot of dedicated ontopic forums for this stuff, > why should we bring it to Debian... > > Best regards, > Ivan Ivanov > > пт, 19 апр. 2019 г. в 11:36, eperezsantos : >> >> Vosotros también con esa moda? Es totalmente innecesario en un SO. >> En fin ... Lo que nos queda por ver. >> >> El mié., 17 abr. 2019 14:39, Rhonda D'Vine escribió: >>> >>> You might have heard about this effort already, as it's been in >>> discussions for a while. >>> >>> At the end of DebConf16, I was approached by some people asking whether >>> I would like to start a team for LGBTIQA+ people within Debian, along >>> similar lines and with similar goals as the Debian Women project. The >>> idea was to create a welcoming space for, and increase visibility of, >>> underrepresented gender and sexual minorities within the Debian project. >>> It was also to make it clear that the Diversity Statement[1] isn't just >>> words, and that the Code of Conduct[2] is a genuinely important part of >>> our community. >>> >>> [1] https://www.debian.org/intro/diversity >>> [2] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct >>> >>> Since then, the IRC channel #debian-diversity has been formed and we >>> have had a discussion session there. We have also had productive >>> sessions at both DebConf17 and DebConf18, where we tried to find out >>> what people expect from this group, and how to move forward. The Debian >>> project always has and always will welcome contributions from people who >>> are willing to work on a constructive level with each other, without >>> discrimination. >>> >>> Through discussions with different people it became clear that calling >>> it the Diversity Team, or rather, Diversity Effort, would be the best >>> fitting name. Our aims aren't limited to specific gender or sexual >>> minority groups and our efforts are specifically meant to be >>> intersectional, and meant to be a combined force, regardless of one's >>> social status, racial background, sexual orientation, gender identity or >>> adherence to body or mental state or norms. >>> >>> We stand for a respectful and welcoming environment. >>> >>> We can be proud of what we managed to produce over the last 25 years. >>> Let's continue to build on these foundations, and make it clear that the >>> Debian community is open and welcoming. >>> >>> An email address has been created to be able to reach the Diversity team >>> in private. If you seek support, feel free to reach out to us at >>> . We have also started to draft a Team page[3] on >>> the wiki. >>> >>> Currently, we are in close contact with the DebConf19 Local Team from >>> Curitiba, so that we can try to ensure that those who would like to >>> attend the next DebConf can feel as safe as possible. We see you, we >>> are worried too,
Re: Bits from the Diversity Team
Vosotros también con esa moda? Es totalmente innecesario en un SO. En fin ... Lo que nos queda por ver. El mié., 17 abr. 2019 14:39, Rhonda D'Vine escribió: > You might have heard about this effort already, as it's been in > discussions for a while. > > At the end of DebConf16, I was approached by some people asking whether > I would like to start a team for LGBTIQA+ people within Debian, along > similar lines and with similar goals as the Debian Women project. The > idea was to create a welcoming space for, and increase visibility of, > underrepresented gender and sexual minorities within the Debian project. > It was also to make it clear that the Diversity Statement[1] isn't just > words, and that the Code of Conduct[2] is a genuinely important part of > our community. > > [1] https://www.debian.org/intro/diversity > [2] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct > > Since then, the IRC channel #debian-diversity has been formed and we > have had a discussion session there. We have also had productive > sessions at both DebConf17 and DebConf18, where we tried to find out > what people expect from this group, and how to move forward. The Debian > project always has and always will welcome contributions from people who > are willing to work on a constructive level with each other, without > discrimination. > > Through discussions with different people it became clear that calling > it the Diversity Team, or rather, Diversity Effort, would be the best > fitting name. Our aims aren't limited to specific gender or sexual > minority groups and our efforts are specifically meant to be > intersectional, and meant to be a combined force, regardless of one's > social status, racial background, sexual orientation, gender identity or > adherence to body or mental state or norms. > > We stand for a respectful and welcoming environment. > > We can be proud of what we managed to produce over the last 25 years. > Let's continue to build on these foundations, and make it clear that the > Debian community is open and welcoming. > > An email address has been created to be able to reach the Diversity team > in private. If you seek support, feel free to reach out to us at > . We have also started to draft a Team page[3] on > the wiki. > > Currently, we are in close contact with the DebConf19 Local Team from > Curitiba, so that we can try to ensure that those who would like to > attend the next DebConf can feel as safe as possible. We see you, we > are worried too, but we think that hiding is not the right reaction to > what's going on right now. > > [3] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Diversity > > For the team, offering hugs, > Rhonda > -- > Fühlst du dich mutlos, fass endlich Mut, los | > Fühlst du dich hilflos, geh raus und hilf, los| Wir sind Helden > Fühlst du dich machtlos, geh raus und mach, los | 23.55: Alles auf Anfang > Fühlst du dich haltlos, such Halt und lass los| >
