Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
su, 2005-05-01 kello 21:41 +0100, Neil McGovern kirjoitti: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I keep thinking that it should be in plural: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
So, I'm not sure such kind of list will be useful for a long period. Of course, we could discuss about the meaning of 'long' in Debian metrics... I disagree with that. A lot of people use webapps (through their browser) a lot more than all the others. I already explained my PoV about webapps in debian many times on d-devel@, and I still believe that debian should have a policy about webapps, but that's not the only point, and I don't see why such a list would die. a lot of packaging scripts have to be written (dbconfig eg), or enhanced (wwwconfig-common eg). That may look stupid, but webapps may need a lot of new concepts like asynchronous apt tasks : I don't know if you realize how many webapps upgrade will fail if their db server is down (and that happens a lot : every time the webapp is upgraded at the same time as your SGDB ... the DB server will be down during the webapp upgrade). that would need tools. THere is the security problems too (see all the discussion about include() e.g.), and a lot of things to speek about (PEAR packaging e.g. is not ruled by any policy ...). And there is a lot of maintainers that suffer from all those problems, and that would be happy to find some other developper that shares the same problems. so, maybe (and I hope so) it won't have d-devel traffic. but I really think it won't die. -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpZSyXWTi4u0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: If interested people would think a l.d.o list is better, that could also be nice. Once you've got me convinced the list is a good idea, it usually doesn't take too long to create it. It really seems that such a list is needed, a lot of webapp maintainers would be happy to have a common place to talk about that. Moreover, I do think that this list would have a decent lifetime, in the first place, it will handle the Webapp Policy Writing but it won't become useless when the policy will be written. Indeed, I think that it will become the right place to help maintenance of webapps. Here is the name that sounds to be the good one, according to this thread: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have to find a correct description for the list, let me give you a first try: Coordination for web application maintenance and Debian Webapp Policy issues. Feel free to give here other descriptions :) -- Alexis Sukrieh [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:21:30AM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: If interested people would think a l.d.o list is better, that could also be nice. Once you've got me convinced the list is a good idea, it usually doesn't take too long to create it. It really seems that such a list is needed, a lot of webapp maintainers would be happy to have a common place to talk about that. Moreover, I do think that this list would have a decent lifetime, in the first place, it will handle the Webapp Policy Writing but it won't become useless when the policy will be written. Indeed, I think that it will become the right place to help maintenance of webapps. Here is the name that sounds to be the good one, according to this thread: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have to find a correct description for the list, let me give you a first try: Coordination for web application maintenance and Debian Webapp Policy issues. Feel free to give here other descriptions :) As per the list creation guidelines, I'll suggest the following, unless anyone can improve on it: Name: debian-webapps Rationale: There are now a large number of Web Application packages in and entering Debian. At the moment, there is no policy on how to package these applications. This list aims to: * Create and maintain a working policy for the packaging of Web based applications (Webapps). * Provide a forum for the discussion of packaging Webapps. Short description: Web Applications package maintainance and Web Application policy development Long description: Coordination for the maintainance of web application packages and Debian Webapp Policy issues. Category: Developers Subscription Policy: open Post Policy: open Web Archive: yes Warm regards, Neil -- A. Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion Q. Why is top posting bad? gpg key - http://www.halon.org.uk/pubkey.txt ; the.earth.li B345BDD3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Neil McGovern wrote: As per the list creation guidelines, I'll suggest the following, unless anyone can improve on it: Ok, thanks. I sent your report to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and retitled the bug. Cheers. -- Alexis Sukrieh [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 11:54:07AM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: Neil McGovern wrote: As per the list creation guidelines, I'll suggest the following, unless anyone can improve on it: Ok, thanks. I sent your report to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and retitled the bug. Thanks, saves me having to do it :) Neil -- A. Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion Q. Why is top posting bad? gpg key - http://www.halon.org.uk/pubkey.txt ; the.earth.li B345BDD3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:21:30AM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: It really seems that such a list is needed, a lot of webapp maintainers would be happy to have a common place to talk about that. Definitely. Here is the name that sounds to be the good one, according to this thread: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seconded. Fwiw, I don't see this as a temporary list, webapplications are *growing* in use, and there's a lot of trickyness involved that isn't well document/standard at all compared to a regular package with some data files, libraries and a few binaries. We have to find a correct description for the list, let me give you a first try: Coordination for web application maintenance and Debian Webapp Policy issues. Coordination and discussion for web application packaging. I wouldn't even mention the policy in the description, it's of course part of it, but not the main focus IMHO - it's just a logical conclusion that this discussion should be on debian-webapps then. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#264069: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
I've just created the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. You can subscribe from http://lists.debian.org/debian-webapps/ Cheers, Pasc On Mon, 2005-05-02 at 13:50 +0200, Jeroen van Wolffelaar wrote: On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:21:30AM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: It really seems that such a list is needed, a lot of webapp maintainers would be happy to have a common place to talk about that. Definitely. Here is the name that sounds to be the good one, according to this thread: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seconded. Fwiw, I don't see this as a temporary list, webapplications are *growing* in use, and there's a lot of trickyness involved that isn't well document/standard at all compared to a regular package with some data files, libraries and a few binaries. We have to find a correct description for the list, let me give you a first try: Coordination for web application maintenance and Debian Webapp Policy issues. Coordination and discussion for web application packaging. I wouldn't even mention the policy in the description, it's of course part of it, but not the main focus IMHO - it's just a logical conclusion that this discussion should be on debian-webapps then. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#264069: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Pascal Hakim wrote: I've just created the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. You can subscribe from http://lists.debian.org/debian-webapps/ And you can join the live discussions on #debian-webapps on irc.oftc.net :) Let's have a nice collaborative work fellow developers! -- Alexis Sukrieh [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
I've lurked for a while in [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoping that that would be the right place for such discussions, and, when they happen, the subscribers are usually pretty clued-in and interested. Perhaps it is the natural place to discuss web-apps? At least until traffic is sufficient that the Debian Apache team kicks us out. It ensures we are 'in touch' with the httpd maintainers, instead of being in an echo chamber. cheers, martin
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 07:28:48PM +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote: I've lurked for a while in [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoping that that would be the right place for such discussions, and, when they happen, the subscribers are usually pretty clued-in and interested. Perhaps it is the natural place to discuss web-apps? At least until traffic is sufficient that the Debian Apache team kicks us out. It ensures we are 'in touch' with the httpd maintainers, instead of being in an echo chamber. I would create an alioth list (and project) and point interested people there, also communicating that on -devel-announce as appropriate... -- Francesco P. Lovergine -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, 2005-05-01 at 10:14 +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 07:28:48PM +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote: I've lurked for a while in [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoping that that would be the right place for such discussions, and, when they happen, the subscribers are usually pretty clued-in and interested. Perhaps it is the natural place to discuss web-apps? At least until traffic is sufficient that the Debian Apache team kicks us out. It ensures we are 'in touch' with the httpd maintainers, instead of being in an echo chamber. I would create an alioth list (and project) and point interested people there, also communicating that on -devel-announce as appropriate... Speaking as a listmaster, I believe that a list that would be used to provide people with a place to discuss the packaging of web-apps, as well as standard things associated with it is a great idea. It's better than debian-apache (after all, there's other web servers out there), and it's better than creating a debian-php list. We want this to be used by all web-apps, whether they be in php, python, perl or whatever the flavour of the week is. Cheers, Pasc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Pascal Hakim wrote: Speaking as a listmaster, I believe that a list that would be used to provide people with a place to discuss the packaging of web-apps, as well as standard things associated with it is a great idea. It's better than debian-apache (after all, there's other web servers out there), and it's better than creating a debian-php list. We want this to be used by all web-apps, whether they be in php, python, perl or whatever the flavour of the week is. Ok. It seems that everyone here agrees on the fact that such a list would be helpful and could enhance the way webapp packages are made. I find Frankie's suggestion interesting and would vote for an Alioth account for hosting the mailinglist. Moreover, if we want to start writing a Debian Webapp Policy Manual, alioth is a good idea too, I suppose. First of all we have to find a correct name for such a project. I was thinking at something generic like webapp-policy but other ideas are welcome. Cheers. -- Alexis Sukrieh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 11:56:47AM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: Pascal Hakim wrote: Speaking as a listmaster, I believe that a list that would be used to provide people with a place to discuss the packaging of web-apps, as well as standard things associated with it is a great idea. It's better than debian-apache (after all, there's other web servers out there), and it's better than creating a debian-php list. We want this to be used by all web-apps, whether they be in php, python, perl or whatever the flavour of the week is. Ok. It seems that everyone here agrees on the fact that such a list would be helpful and could enhance the way webapp packages are made. I find Frankie's suggestion interesting and would vote for an Alioth account for hosting the mailinglist. Moreover, if we want to start writing a Debian Webapp Policy Manual, alioth is a good idea too, I suppose. First of all we have to find a correct name for such a project. I was thinking at something generic like webapp-policy but other ideas are welcome. I think a suitable section in debian policy would be appropriate. And mere technical discussions about the policy contents are also appropriate in d-policy. All other technical discussions should go in an alioth list. My suggestion of an alioth list is due to current discouraging (and long delays) for a new proper list on lists.debian.org. If interested people would think a l.d.o list is better, that could also be nice. -- Francesco P. Lovergine -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 12:08:01PM +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 11:56:47AM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: Pascal Hakim wrote: Speaking as a listmaster, I believe that a list that would be used to provide people with a place to discuss the packaging of web-apps, as well as standard things associated with it is a great idea. It's better than debian-apache (after all, there's other web servers out there), and it's better than creating a debian-php list. We want this to be used by all web-apps, whether they be in php, python, perl or whatever the flavour of the week is. Ok. It seems that everyone here agrees on the fact that such a list would be helpful and could enhance the way webapp packages are made. I find Frankie's suggestion interesting and would vote for an Alioth account for hosting the mailinglist. Moreover, if we want to start writing a Debian Webapp Policy Manual, alioth is a good idea too, I suppose. First of all we have to find a correct name for such a project. I was thinking at something generic like webapp-policy but other ideas are welcome. I think a suitable section in debian policy would be appropriate. And mere technical discussions about the policy contents are also appropriate in d-policy. All other technical discussions should go in an alioth list. My suggestion of an alioth list is due to current discouraging (and long delays) for a new proper list on lists.debian.org. If interested people would think a l.d.o list Eh, because you believe a new lists.d.o list could take a bit of delay, an alioth list is better? Sorry, but I don't agree with the reasoning -- lists.debian.org is for general discussion lists, while alioth is more for packaging-specific projects or for new projects that haven't gone anywhere yet. Web applications in Debian are already numerously packaged, and the need is obvious for a list to coordinate this and to write a sane policy about it. I'm strongly in favour of a lists.debian.org, and I'm sure it'll be created swiftly when we choose a sane name for it. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Jeroen van Wolffelaar a écrit : I'm strongly in favour of a lists.debian.org, and I'm sure it'll be created swiftly when we choose a sane name for it. If possible, I also think that a lists.debian.org is better, and will underline the fact that a real coordination is needed around webapp packages. So let's find a name, here are some ideas I have on the fly, feel free to comment on it: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - debian-www@lists.debian.org - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Alexis Sukrieh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, 2005-05-01 at 14:28 +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: Jeroen van Wolffelaar a crit : I'm strongly in favour of a lists.debian.org, and I'm sure it'll be created swiftly when we choose a sane name for it. If possible, I also think that a lists.debian.org is better, and will underline the fact that a real coordination is needed around webapp packages. So let's find a name, here are some ideas I have on the fly, feel free to comment on it: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] That works for me. - debian-www@lists.debian.org err... you're kidding right? - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not too keen on a packages list. I don't want such a list to become a maintainer for anything (short of maybe a web app policy) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I find that one too confusing. Cheers, Pasc
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 02:28:00PM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: So let's find a name, here are some ideas I have on the fly, feel free to comment on it: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ugly name IMHO. But then again, who am I to say you shouldn't be using an ugly name? ;-) - debian-www@lists.debian.org That one already exists, and is being used for development of Debian's website. I'm afraid the webmasters wouldn't be very happy with being kicked off of their mailinglist :-) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds good, IMO. - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think this one is too generic, and might suffer from clueless people sending generic web-development based questions to it (How do I do $foo in PHP? Please help me!). -- The amount of time between slipping on the peel and landing on the pavement is precisely one bananosecond -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, 2005-05-01 at 12:08 +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 11:56:47AM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: Pascal Hakim wrote: Speaking as a listmaster, I believe that a list that would be used to provide people with a place to discuss the packaging of web-apps, as well as standard things associated with it is a great idea. It's better than debian-apache (after all, there's other web servers out there), and it's better than creating a debian-php list. We want this to be used by all web-apps, whether they be in php, python, perl or whatever the flavour of the week is. Ok. It seems that everyone here agrees on the fact that such a list would be helpful and could enhance the way webapp packages are made. I find Frankie's suggestion interesting and would vote for an Alioth account for hosting the mailinglist. Moreover, if we want to start writing a Debian Webapp Policy Manual, alioth is a good idea too, I suppose. First of all we have to find a correct name for such a project. I was thinking at something generic like webapp-policy but other ideas are welcome. I think a suitable section in debian policy would be appropriate. And mere technical discussions about the policy contents are also appropriate in d-policy. All other technical discussions should go in an alioth list. My suggestion of an alioth list is due to Do the policy discussion on the new list, and make a new debian web apps sub policy, in the same way we have perl and emacs policies. Leave the main debian policy out of it, until we have something that works, and is used by most web apps. This is how the system is meant to work. current discouraging (and long delays) for a new proper list on lists.debian.org. If interested people would think a l.d.o list is better, that could also be nice. Once you've got me convinced the list is a good idea, it usually doesn't take too long to create it. Cheers, Pasc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Pascal Hakim a crit : - debian-www@lists.debian.org err... you're kidding right? Hmmm.. he he :) Sorry for that stupid mistake! -- Alexis Sukrieh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
If I understand well, those two names could be interesting: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I find the first one a little bit ugly (the webapp word is not that clean for a mailing list I think) and I also find the second problematic because of the word packages. This leads me to propose the following name: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's simple and clean, but maybe it will conflict a bit with the actual debian-www in some cases... -- Alexis Sukrieh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 01:33:08PM +0200, Jeroen van Wolffelaar wrote: Eh, because you believe a new lists.d.o list could take a bit of delay, an alioth list is better? Sorry, but I don't agree with the reasoning -- lists.debian.org is for general discussion lists, while alioth is more for packaging-specific projects or for new projects that haven't gone anywhere yet. well, given that there will most likely result a package or two from the discussion, as well as a policy (hopefully :), and both of which will need some kind of working repository to which we all have access, it would make sense to start up an alioth project anyway. and while we're waiting for the debian-webapp (or whatever name we decide on) mailing list at l.d.o, we could also have somewhere to talk. later, we could move en masse to l.d.o list when we have it and leave the project just for the packaging/policy repository. so, that said, i'm going to go ahead and apply for an alioth project for the packaging related stuff, as i was planning on doing so anyway. if folks wouldn't mind a list hosted there, i can set it up. sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
sean finney a écrit : well, given that there will most likely result a package or two from the discussion, as well as a policy (hopefully :), and both of which will need some kind of working repository to which we all have access, it would make sense to start up an alioth project anyway. I agree. That cannot hurt to have a working area. I also vote for a SVN account. and while we're waiting for the debian-webapp (or whatever name we decide on) mailing list at l.d.o, we could also have somewhere to talk. later, we could move en masse to l.d.o list when we have it and leave the project just for the packaging/policy repository. Indeed. so, that said, i'm going to go ahead and apply for an alioth project for the packaging related stuff, as i was planning on doing so anyway. if folks wouldn't mind a list hosted there, i can set it up. Ok, which name will you use for the alioth project? -- Alexis Sukrieh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 04:34:17PM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: I agree. That cannot hurt to have a working area. I also vote for a SVN account. i didn't think you could do svn on alioth. can you? so, that said, i'm going to go ahead and apply for an alioth project for the packaging related stuff, as i was planning on doing so anyway. if folks wouldn't mind a list hosted there, i can set it up. Ok, which name will you use for the alioth project? i chose webapps-common, in the spirit of wwwconfig-common and dbconfig-common. the former will probably be absorbed into this project (with the blessing of the maintainer, of course). sean signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 03:38:51PM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: If I understand well, those two names could be interesting: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I find the first one a little bit ugly (the webapp word is not that clean for a mailing list I think) and I also find the second problematic because of the word packages. This leads me to propose the following name: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's simple and clean, but maybe it will conflict a bit with the actual debian-www in some cases... I think that there's been consensus that: debian-www@lists.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] Should be discounted. (Correct me if anyone disagrees) This leaves: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think that [EMAIL PROTECTED] is probably a little too close to [EMAIL PROTECTED] debian-webapp is a little clunky, but possibly the best suggestion :) Although debian-cgi is probably the best description to the (suggested) scope of the list, it seems to me that this could cause confusion, as people may think that it only refers to systems that traditionally go in the cgi-bin directory. All the best, Neil -- A. Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion Q. Why is top posting bad? gpg key - http://www.halon.org.uk/pubkey.txt ; the.earth.li B345BDD3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 10:01:42AM -0400, sean finney wrote: On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 01:33:08PM +0200, Jeroen van Wolffelaar wrote: Eh, because you believe a new lists.d.o list could take a bit of delay, an alioth list is better? Sorry, but I don't agree with the reasoning -- lists.debian.org is for general discussion lists, while alioth is more for packaging-specific projects or for new projects that haven't gone anywhere yet. well, given that there will most likely result a package or two from the discussion, as well as a policy (hopefully :), and both of which will need some kind of working repository to which we all have access, it would make sense to start up an alioth project anyway. and while we're waiting for the debian-webapp (or whatever name we decide on) mailing list at l.d.o, we could also have somewhere to talk. later, we could move en masse to l.d.o list when we have it and leave the project just for the packaging/policy repository. so, that said, i'm going to go ahead and apply for an alioth project for the packaging related stuff, as i was planning on doing so anyway. if folks wouldn't mind a list hosted there, i can set it up. It's possibly worth looking at https://alioth.debian.org/projects/webapppolicy/ Regards, Neil -- A. Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion Q. Why is top posting bad? gpg key - http://www.halon.org.uk/pubkey.txt ; the.earth.li B345BDD3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 11:24:53PM +1000, Pascal Hakim wrote: I think a suitable section in debian policy would be appropriate. And mere technical discussions about the policy contents are also appropriate in d-policy. All other technical discussions should go in an alioth list. My suggestion of an alioth list is due to Do the policy discussion on the new list, and make a new debian web apps sub policy, in the same way we have perl and emacs policies. Leave the main debian policy out of it, until we have something that works, and is used by most web apps. This is how the system is meant to work. That's what I said in an involute manner :-) current discouraging (and long delays) for a new proper list on lists.debian.org. If interested people would think a l.d.o list is better, that could also be nice. Once you've got me convinced the list is a good idea, it usually doesn't take too long to create it. I think the list would be useful in the initial period. Once a decent policy would be ready, the true job will move on common tools development, while general policy discussions would be naturally hosted in d-policy, eventually. So, I'm not sure such kind of list will be useful for a long period. Of course, we could discuss about the meaning of 'long' in Debian metrics... -- Francesco P. Lovergine -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
sean finney a écrit : On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 04:34:17PM +0200, Alexis Sukrieh wrote: I agree. That cannot hurt to have a working area. I also vote for a SVN account. i didn't think you could do svn on alioth. can you? Well not it depends on what you mean by on alioth. I know that you can request a SVN account for an alioth project through the alioth support system. The account will then be hosted on svn.debian.org. -- Alexis Sukrieh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Hi all, There's been a bit of discussion[0] recently on the debian-security list with regards to how include()ed files should be handled. I think that, due to the large number of packages that are webapps, a policy shoudl be created on how we handle these. To do this, it would be a good idea IMO to have a maining list. This has already been suggested[1][2], and I agree that a debian-webapp list should be created. Before I retitle this bug, I'd like opinions on if this is a good idea or not. There seems to be some work already completed on a php policy[3] but I'm not sure what progress has been made recently :) All the best, Neil McGovern [0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2005/04/msg00103.html [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=264069 [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/08/msg01976.html [3] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=265113 -- A. Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion Q. Why is top posting bad? gpg key - http://www.halon.org.uk/pubkey.txt ; the.earth.li B345BDD3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 05:32:35PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: There's been a bit of discussion[0] recently on the debian-security list with regards to how include()ed files should be handled. and this for the most part is a good practice. if the file does not need to be directly accessed by web clients, it should not be underneath the web accessible directories. that said, there are a lot of projects in which that distinction is blurred, and in some cases it may not be at all feasible. i think a general guideline should be that any include files are either impotent if fetched remotely (naming most php inlcude files to end in php can often achieve this), or better, restricted from being accessed at all via web server access controls (htaccess for apache) or placed outside of a fetchable root[1]. this is in order of least to most preference. I think that, due to the large number of packages that are webapps, a policy shoudl be created on how we handle these. some time ago i wrote a rough outline of a policy[2], though there remains much to be added to this. at the time i decided it was a bit too much work and too broad of a subject to be tackled at once, so i then decided to focus on the database-specific portion of it[3], thinking that the practices, trends, tools, and development methods could be extrapolated. To do this, it would be a good idea IMO to have a maining list. This has already been suggested[1][2], and I agree that a debian-webapp list should be created. i also think such an idea would be very useful, and i would certainly join up in said list. sean -- [1] prepending to php_include_path in a debian-centric config file is an easy way to achieve this for php pages. [2] http://people.debian.org/~seanius/policy/webapp-policy.html [3] http://people.debian.org/~seanius/policy/dbapp-policy.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 01:00:18PM -0400, sean finney wrote: On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 05:32:35PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: There's been a bit of discussion[0] recently on the debian-security list with regards to how include()ed files should be handled. and this for the most part is a good practice. Please, this mail is about whether to start a mailinglist, not to rehash a discussion going on elsewhere already. Ontopic -- yeah, I think it's a good idea for having a web application mailinglist, as also has been suggested at least several times in the past. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
Neil McGovern a écrit : To do this, it would be a good idea IMO to have a maining list. This has already been suggested[1][2], and I agree that a debian-webapp list should be created. I also think this is a good idea. Several times in the past I'd loved to mail such a mailing list when I faced webapp packaging issues. Before I retitle this bug, I'd like opinions on if this is a good idea or not. I think this is a good idea. I also think that we should have a specific section in the Debian Policy for answering common questions such as: - where should I put CGI files if they're not architecture dependant? (such as PHP or Perl scripts). - Should we provide template files as conffiles? We also might strongly suggest the use of wwwconfig and dbconfig in such a policy section... Anyway, if such a mailing list arise, I'll be in the party ;) -- Alexis Sukrieh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP/WebApp policy/mailing list
This one time, at band camp, Alexis Sukrieh said: Neil McGovern a écrit : To do this, it would be a good idea IMO to have a maining list. This has already been suggested[1][2], and I agree that a debian-webapp list should be created. I also think this is a good idea. Several times in the past I'd loved to mail such a mailing list when I faced webapp packaging issues. Before I retitle this bug, I'd like opinions on if this is a good idea or not. I think this is a good idea. I also think that we should have a specific section in the Debian Policy for answering common questions such as: - where should I put CGI files if they're not architecture dependant? (such as PHP or Perl scripts). - Should we provide template files as conffiles? We also might strongly suggest the use of wwwconfig and dbconfig in such a policy section... Anyway, if such a mailing list arise, I'll be in the party ;) I'm happy to host it until it gets onto a debian.org machine. If people feel like there's a need, let me know. -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - pgpJFY5J8rXvz.pgp Description: PGP signature
