Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
clone 363250 -1 reassign -1 general retitle -1 PAGER as a pipeline tags 363250 fixed-upstream thanks On Sun, Apr 23, 2006 at 09:52:34PM +0200, Loïc Minier wrote: Yes, indeed, the root of the problem is the change of support for pipelines. However, I'm not sure that pipelines worked in the use case of passing a file as a parameter to $PAGER in the past. Currently, each program (for example man) has its way of calling $PAGER, perhaps as $PAGER file name or piping to sh -c $PAGER, or perhaps piping directly to $PAGER. Of course, if we say $PAGER can be a pipeline, and a pager can be used both as $PAGER file name and as the end of a pipeline, then defining $PAGER to be a pipeline must work in both cases, but I'm not sure it is a regression to not support pipelines in the use case of a file name as argument. In other words: $PAGER is a $PAGER is a program pipeline call $PAGER as works ??? $PAGER file name call $PAGER as cat data | $PAGERworks works That last entry is not correct. See below. I do agree that the two use cases that you listed in a previous message exist, I'm not sure they were both supported in the case where $PAGER is a pipeline, but we can work on fixing that at least in sensible-pager by using systematically: cat $@ | $PAGER Sorry I took so long to deal with this bug report against man-db. I must confess that the length of the thread intimidated me a bit! For the meantime, I note that putting pipes in $PAGER doesn't work even with sensible-pager, since variable expansion doesn't work that way in shell: $ cat f foo bar $ PAGER='cat | grep bar' sensible-pager f cat: |: No such file or directory cat: grep: No such file or directory cat: bar: No such file or directory foo bar $ PAGER='cat | grep bar' f sensible-pager cat: |: No such file or directory cat: grep: No such file or directory cat: bar: No such file or directory To be precise, expansion happens after shell input is parsed into commands. See: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xcu_chap02.html#tag_02_01 I therefore don't think it makes sense to do the not inconsiderable amount of work required to support pipes-in-$PAGER in man-db when even sensible-pager can't cope wth it. (The reason it used to work was that man-db used to be very sloppy about all sorts of things and just passed stuff to system(); over the last few years I taught it how to handle pipelined command execution itself, which fixed a wide variety of interesting bugs. As a result, though, pipes in $PAGER and other things that man-db interprets stopped being supported.) For the meantime, I've simply documented the constraints on PAGER and friends in man(1), and advised the use of a script in such cases: Tue Jul 21 15:17:49 BST 2009 Colin Watson cjwat...@debian.org * man/man1/man.man1 (Controlling formatted output, ENVIRONMENT): Explicitly state that -P/$PAGER/$MANPAGER identifies a single command with no pipes (Debian bug #363250). If we want to extend PAGER in general, then I'm willing to revisit this. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@debian.org] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Processed: Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org: clone 363250 -1 Bug#363250: please clarify in the man manpage how $PAGER is invoked Bug 363250 cloned as bug 538022. reassign -1 general Bug#538022: please clarify in the man manpage how $PAGER is invoked Bug reassigned from package `man-db' to `general'. retitle -1 PAGER as a pipeline Bug#538022: please clarify in the man manpage how $PAGER is invoked Changed Bug title to `PAGER as a pipeline' from `please clarify in the man manpage how $PAGER is invoked'. tags 363250 fixed-upstream Bug#363250: please clarify in the man manpage how $PAGER is invoked There were no tags set. Tags added: fixed-upstream thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. Debian bug tracking system administrator (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Sun, Apr 23, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Historically, if my memory serves me correctly, one used PAGER to specify the program, and the default arguments. PAGER essentially worked as an shell alias: PAGER= less -cim And then you could either pipe thigs to ti, or call it on a file. I am not sure if I recall a-pipeline-as-pager ever working, even way back in the mid 80's. The proposal adds support for it, and indirectly addresses the regression mentionned in the bug report which started this discussion. -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 22 Apr 2006, Loïc Minier outgrape: On Sat, Apr 22, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: There are two use cases that any pager directive must address: 1) The program is going to generate output which must be piped to a pager 2) The program want to send a file to the user. I agree that these use cases need to be supported. But perhaps the policy for Debian should be for programs to ignore PAGER and just use sensible pager, where all the logic for dealing with pager goes in. I still don't see how sensible pager can handle the pipeline vs the non-pipeline case, though. Yes, I believe the policy should be changed in this way, and as I proposed. Hmm. This could be a potentially disruptive change -- since a lot of programs may need to be changed in non-trivial ways. Look at the code of sensible-pager, it will call $PAGER if sensible-pager is called without any argument, and $PAGER filename if it's called as sensible-pager filename. This seems good enough for me; if people set $PAGER to a pipeline, they might suffer from problems for the second case, but we can work on that. Err, so we can't make this policy (allowing $PAGER to be a pipeline) until we have a solution for this, given that we have agreed that the two use cases for $PAGER must be feasible. Barring that, policy would have to be that programs can' t user PAGER to work with use case 2, and must be guilty of an useless use of cat to pipe data to STDIN for PAGER. Yes, if you mean that permitting pipelines forbids programs to call $PAGER $file, I agree with you. There are multiple ways to solve this, but I think that whatever way is chosen should be implemented in sensible-pager, and we can even change our mind later, and fix only sensible-pager. The contract of sensible-pager with respect to Debian programs should be to offer two modes of operation, the pipe of data on stdin mode, and the pass a file on the command line mode (matching your use cases 1 and 2). PAGER has the benefit of being long standardized, and if we do not use PAGER, we are breaking user expectations. What is the benefit of creating a PAGER clone? sensible-pager is not a PAGER clone, it permits us to enhance the handling of $PAGER in a single place instead of changing every program in Debian that wants to send something to $PAGER. The point is that lots of programs already respect $PAGER, with varying semantics (most support $PAGER being less or more or something, but not all support arbitary pipelines. B/ user configuration of the pager When defined, $PAGER is a sh pipeline which reads its data from stdin. How do programs present a text file to the user using a PAGER, then? cat file.txt | $PAGER? That's a question for sensible-pager to solve, but one way is to use cat $@ | $PAGER indeed. Umm. If we are talking about making policy, we can't just make policy and say things are a problem for some package or the other to solve. In other words, ignore $PAGER, use sensible-pager all over, and let that handle it? Yes. Not, unless these questions are answered, and we actually have a working implementation. Well the current implementation works, except for pipelines. :) Since allowing pipelines seems to be the motivating factor here, we do need to solve that, I think. manoj -- I am here by the will of the people and I won't leave until I get my raincoat back.- a slogan of the anarchists in Richard Kadrey's Metrophage Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Sun, Apr 23, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Since allowing pipelines seems to be the motivating factor here, we do need to solve that, I think. Yes, indeed, the root of the problem is the change of support for pipelines. However, I'm not sure that pipelines worked in the use case of passing a file as a parameter to $PAGER in the past. Currently, each program (for example man) has its way of calling $PAGER, perhaps as $PAGER file name or piping to sh -c $PAGER, or perhaps piping directly to $PAGER. Of course, if we say $PAGER can be a pipeline, and a pager can be used both as $PAGER file name and as the end of a pipeline, then defining $PAGER to be a pipeline must work in both cases, but I'm not sure it is a regression to not support pipelines in the use case of a file name as argument. In other words: $PAGER is a $PAGER is a program pipeline call $PAGER as works ??? $PAGER file name call $PAGER as cat data | $PAGERworks works I do agree that the two use cases that you listed in a previous message exist, I'm not sure they were both supported in the case where $PAGER is a pipeline, but we can work on fixing that at least in sensible-pager by using systematically: cat $@ | $PAGER Bye, -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read it. I still think that my answer suffices: Put your pipeline in a script, and set that to PAGER. Your answer doesn't suffice, because it's not what people expect -- PAGER has historically (for a _long_ time) supported arguments being specified (and I guess in practice it was usually used an argument to popen), so that's what users have come to expect, and what other distros/OSes support in the vast majority of cases. Changing it now would be very unfriendly to users, and morever there seems to be little or no benefit to doing so (really, what exactly would you gain?). -Miles -- 80% of success is just showing up. --Woody Allen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 23 Apr 2006, Loïc Minier verbalised: On Sun, Apr 23, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Since allowing pipelines seems to be the motivating factor here, we do need to solve that, I think. Yes, indeed, the root of the problem is the change of support for pipelines. However, I'm not sure that pipelines worked in the use case of passing a file as a parameter to $PAGER in the past. Currently, each program (for example man) has its way of calling $PAGER, perhaps as $PAGER file name or piping to sh -c $PAGER, or perhaps piping directly to $PAGER. Of course, if we say $PAGER can be a pipeline, and a pager can be used both as $PAGER file name and as the end of a pipeline, then defining $PAGER to be a pipeline must work in both cases, but I'm not sure it is a regression to not support pipelines in the use case of a file name as argument. In other words: $PAGER is a $PAGER is a program pipeline call $PAGER as works ??? $PAGER file name call $PAGER as cat data | $PAGERworks works I do agree that the two use cases that you listed in a previous message exist, I'm not sure they were both supported in the case where $PAGER is a pipeline, but we can work on fixing that at least in sensible-pager by using systematically: cat $@ | $PAGER Historically, if my memory serves me correctly, one used PAGER to specify the program, and the default arguments. PAGER essentially worked as an shell alias: PAGER= less -cim And then you could either pipe thigs to ti, or call it on a file. I am not sure if I recall a-pipeline-as-pager ever working, even way back in the mid 80's. manoj -- It is sweet to let the mind unbend on occasion. Quintus Horatius Flaccus (Horace) Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 23 Apr 2006, Miles Bader spake thusly: Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read it. I still think that my answer suffices: Put your pipeline in a script, and set that to PAGER. Your answer doesn't suffice, because it's not what people expect -- PAGER has historically (for a _long_ time) supported arguments being specified Nothing in what I said preclues specifying arguments. __ echo $PAGER less -ciM None of this applies to pipelines, which must either have a file name, or - for stdin. Arguments are a different beastie for general pipelines. (and I guess in practice it was usually used an argument to popen), so that's what users have come to expect, and what other distros/OSes support in the vast majority of cases. Irrelevant to the current discussion. Changing it now would be very unfriendly to users, and morever there seems to be little or no benefit to doing so (really, what exactly would you gain?). Please go back, and re-read what I have said: _ cat somefile.txt | less -ciM _ less -ciM somefile.txt Both work, but: _ cat somefile.txt | fileterA | filterB - may work, _ fileterA | filterB - somefile.txt does not. manoj -- Hedonist for hire... no job too easy! Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 21 Apr 2006, Loïc Minier spake thusly: Hi, On Fri, Apr 21, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Here is my solution for using vim + script as a pager; similar mechanisms can be used to use plain vim as PAGER as well. Nice, I suggest filing a new bug against vim to propose this as a contrib script, or to ship it as vim-pager wrapper. #363250 is more about documenting the semantics of $PAGER (whether it can uses sh syntax, or whether it's a command with parameters separated with spaces), to be documented in man man, and/or policy. Err, we should define how it behaves, not what is inside it. As long as one can pipe things to $PAGER or use $PAGER on a file, what it contains should not matter. The safe bet would be for $PAGER to be a script or executable which can handle reading from file or STDIN, like proper UNIX programs. To make life easier for people writing programs which deal with $PAGER, and are using the POSIX exce* set of calls, one may constrain $PAGER to path [arg [arg ..]], with no pipes or other shell meta-characters. manoj -- 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world. Alfred, Lord Tennyson Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: #363250 is more about documenting the semantics of $PAGER (whether it can uses sh syntax, or whether it's a command with parameters separated with spaces), to be documented in man man, and/or policy. Err, we should define how it behaves, not what is inside it. As long as one can pipe things to $PAGER or use $PAGER on a file, what it contains should not matter. Please read again the original report, the submitter wanted to have a pipe of commands in $PAGER, he said this worked in the past, and works on other distros. He did not want to simply be able to use $PAGER on a file or to pipe stuff to $PAGER, he wanted $PAGER to be parsed as a pipeline, as in sh syntax. The safe bet would be for $PAGER to be a script or executable which can handle reading from file or STDIN, like proper UNIX programs. This is an independent problem First, we already have one layer of sh scripting with the sensible-pager program, and it would be a good enough place to handle the cases you mention, would people and programs use sensible-pager as the default pager. Second, this doesn't define what should happen when someone redefines $PAGER: what if one user wants $PAGER to be a pipeline? To make life easier for people writing programs which deal with $PAGER, and are using the POSIX exce* set of calls, one may constrain $PAGER to path [arg [arg ..]], with no pipes or other shell meta-characters. Yes, I think this is safe, but I'd go even further and propose the following: A/ handling of pager in programs 1/ programs should default to sensible-pager 2/ programs should offer a way to override the default pager in some way, for example via an environment variable called program_PAGER, or a configuration setting -- it might even be better for them to avoid handling $PAGER, see 1/ B/ user configuration of the pager When defined, $PAGER is a sh pipeline which reads its data from stdin. This is with the intent of moving any logic for deciding of the best pager to run out of each individual program requiring a pager, exactly as in the sensible-browser case, which can consider $BROWSER, $DISPLAY, x-www-browser, and www-browser to find a sensible browser. Manoj, how would this fit in policy? -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 22 Apr 2006, Loïc Minier spake thusly: On Sat, Apr 22, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: 363250 is more about documenting the semantics of $PAGER (whether it can uses sh syntax, or whether it's a command with parameters separated with spaces), to be documented in man man, and/or policy. Err, we should define how it behaves, not what is inside it. As long as one can pipe things to $PAGER or use $PAGER on a file, what it contains should not matter. Please read again the original report, the submitter wanted to have a pipe of commands in $PAGER, he said this worked in the past, and works on other distros. He did not want to simply be able to use $PAGER on a file or to pipe stuff to $PAGER, he wanted $PAGER to be parsed as a pipeline, as in sh syntax. I read it. I still think that my answer suffices: Put your pipeline in a script, and set that to PAGER. If I have a file that I want the users to see, as opposed to output I create, how can I figure out how to use the example in the initial bug report? There are two use cases that any pager directive must address: 1) The program is going to generate output which must be piped to a pager 2) The program want to send a file to the user. The safe bet would be for $PAGER to be a script or executable which can handle reading from file or STDIN, like proper UNIX programs. This is an independent problem First, we already have one layer of sh scripting with the sensible-pager program, and it would be a good enough place to handle the cases you mention, would people and programs use sensible-pager as the default pager. Second, this doesn't define what should happen when someone redefines $PAGER: what if one user wants $PAGER to be a pipeline? If the PAGER semantics are defined to state that whatever you change it to must work in the two use cases, then programs that use PAGER directly would not have an issue. But perhaps the policy for Debian should be for programs to ignore PAGER and just use sensible pager, where all the logic for dealing with pager goes in. I still don't see how sensible pager can handle the pipeline vs the non-pipeline case, though. Barring that, policy would have to be that programs can' t user PAGER to work with use case 2, and must be guilty of an useless use of cat to pipe data to STDIN for PAGER. Neither one of these is a happy prospect. To make life easier for people writing programs which deal with $PAGER, and are using the POSIX exce* set of calls, one may constrain $PAGER to path [arg [arg ..]], with no pipes or other shell meta-characters. Yes, I think this is safe, but I'd go even further and propose the following: A/ handling of pager in programs 1/ programs should default to sensible-pager 2/ programs should offer a way to override the default pager in some way, for example via an environment variable called program_PAGER, or a configuration setting -- it might even be better for them to avoid handling $PAGER, see 1/ PAGER has the benefit of being long standardized, and if we do not use PAGER, we are breaking user expectations. What is the benefit of creating a PAGER clone? B/ user configuration of the pager When defined, $PAGER is a sh pipeline which reads its data from stdin. How do programs present a text file to the user using a PAGER, then? cat file.txt | $PAGER? This is with the intent of moving any logic for deciding of the best pager to run out of each individual program requiring a pager, exactly as in the sensible-browser case, which can consider $BROWSER, $DISPLAY, x-www-browser, and www-browser to find a sensible browser. In other words, ignore $PAGER, use sensible-pager all over, and let that handle it? Manoj, how would this fit in policy? Not, unless these questions are answered, and we actually have a working implementation. manoj -- Liberty don't work as good in practice as it does in speeches. The Best of Will Rogers Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Hi, On Sat, Apr 22, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Please read again the original report, the submitter wanted to have a pipe of commands in $PAGER, he said this worked in the past, and works on other distros. He did not want to simply be able to use $PAGER on a file or to pipe stuff to $PAGER, he wanted $PAGER to be parsed as a pipeline, as in sh syntax. I read it. I still think that my answer suffices: Put your pipeline in a script, and set that to PAGER. If I have a file that I want the users to see, as opposed to output I create, how can I figure out how to use the example in the initial bug report? The point is that it used to work with a pipeline, as explained by the submitter, in the past and now it doesn't work, I later replied that it was never said that the content of $PAGER was following sh syntax. You propose a (valid) workaround, I propose to fix the policy, and to even actually support sh syntax (as this is trivial to do from sensible-pager). There are two use cases that any pager directive must address: 1) The program is going to generate output which must be piped to a pager 2) The program want to send a file to the user. I agree that these use cases need to be supported. If the PAGER semantics are defined to state that whatever you change it to must work in the two use cases, then programs that use PAGER directly would not have an issue. But, if I follow you, this would prevent pipelines. But perhaps the policy for Debian should be for programs to ignore PAGER and just use sensible pager, where all the logic for dealing with pager goes in. I still don't see how sensible pager can handle the pipeline vs the non-pipeline case, though. Yes, I believe the policy should be changed in this way, and as I proposed. Look at the code of sensible-pager, it will call $PAGER if sensible-pager is called without any argument, and $PAGER filename if it's called as sensible-pager filename. This seems good enough for me; if people set $PAGER to a pipeline, they might suffer from problems for the second case, but we can work on that. Barring that, policy would have to be that programs can' t user PAGER to work with use case 2, and must be guilty of an useless use of cat to pipe data to STDIN for PAGER. Yes, if you mean that permitting pipelines forbids programs to call $PAGER $file, I agree with you. There are multiple ways to solve this, but I think that whatever way is chosen should be implemented in sensible-pager, and we can even change our mind later, and fix only sensible-pager. The contract of sensible-pager with respect to Debian programs should be to offer two modes of operation, the pipe of data on stdin mode, and the pass a file on the command line mode (matching your use cases 1 and 2). PAGER has the benefit of being long standardized, and if we do not use PAGER, we are breaking user expectations. What is the benefit of creating a PAGER clone? sensible-pager is not a PAGER clone, it permits us to enhance the handling of $PAGER in a single place instead of changing every program in Debian that wants to send something to $PAGER. Have a look at the sensible-browser code, and at #351901 to convince you that there are useful things that can be done in such a nice place as sensible-pager. Eg, we might send data to yelp if running under GNOME. B/ user configuration of the pager When defined, $PAGER is a sh pipeline which reads its data from stdin. How do programs present a text file to the user using a PAGER, then? cat file.txt | $PAGER? That's a question for sensible-pager to solve, but one way is to use cat $@ | $PAGER indeed. This is with the intent of moving any logic for deciding of the best pager to run out of each individual program requiring a pager, exactly as in the sensible-browser case, which can consider $BROWSER, $DISPLAY, x-www-browser, and www-browser to find a sensible browser. In other words, ignore $PAGER, use sensible-pager all over, and let that handle it? Yes. Not, unless these questions are answered, and we actually have a working implementation. Well the current implementation works, except for pipelines. :) Bye, -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Hi, Here is my solution for using vim + script as a pager; similar mechanisms can be used to use plain vim as PAGER as well. , | #!/bin/bash | # Shell script to start Vim with less.vim. | # Read stdin if no arguments were given. | | #VRUNTIME=/usr/share/vim/vim64/ | VRUNTIME=$HOME/etc/vim/ | if test $# = 0; then | vim -c so $VRUNTIME/macros/less.vim - | else | vim -c so $VRUNTIME/macros/less.vim $@ | fi ` I take no credit for the vim script or the idea, but it seems to work pretty well. Note how the vim invocation changes based on whether the PAGER is being used as a filter or not. manoj -- When in doubt, use brute force. Ken Thompson Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Hi, On Fri, Apr 21, 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Here is my solution for using vim + script as a pager; similar mechanisms can be used to use plain vim as PAGER as well. Nice, I suggest filing a new bug against vim to propose this as a contrib script, or to ship it as vim-pager wrapper. #363250 is more about documenting the semantics of $PAGER (whether it can uses sh syntax, or whether it's a command with parameters separated with spaces), to be documented in man man, and/or policy. There's also another bug discussed in #363250 which is about nview's view not working correctly, but I didn't look into that. Bye, -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 08:36:10AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Hi, Here is my solution for using vim + script as a pager; similar mechanisms can be used to use plain vim as PAGER as well. [snip script] There is already a less.sh that does this, which is in the same directory (/usr/share/vim/vimcurrent/macros) as less.vim. James -- GPG Key: 1024D/61326D40 2003-09-02 James Vega [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:05:16AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I expect to be able to pipe stuff to $PAGER, or invoke $PAGER on a text file, like so: % cat~/.bash_profile | $PAGER % $PAGER ~/.bash_profile That seems to be an awfully user-specific expectation, given that you can't assume that PAGER is set *at all* by default. Err, if the PAGER is empty, default it to more. What does that have to do with the price of tea in china? $ echo $PAGER $ $PAGER tea\ in\ china bash: ./tea in china: Permission denied $ If $PAGER isn't set, then you can't very well use it as you describe, can you? 'Course, you can use the sensible-pager command this way. And sensible-pager does expect that $PAGER, if set, can take file names as appended arguments. So I guess your use cases do model the defacto policy for use of $PAGER. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 20 Apr 2006, Steve Langasek spake thusly: On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:05:16AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I expect to be able to pipe stuff to $PAGER, or invoke $PAGER on a text file, like so: % cat~/.bash_profile | $PAGER % $PAGER ~/.bash_profile That seems to be an awfully user-specific expectation, given that you can't assume that PAGER is set *at all* by default. Err, if the PAGER is empty, default it to more. What does that have to do with the price of tea in china? $ echo $PAGER $ $PAGER tea\ in\ china bash: ./tea in china: Permission denied $ If $PAGER isn't set, then you can't very well use it as you describe, can you? 'Course, you can use the sensible-pager command this way. And sensible-pager does expect that $PAGER, if set, can take file names as appended arguments. So I guess your use cases do model the defacto policy for use of $PAGER. The discussion here is about what the expectation are for the contents of #PAGER, if it exists, not how to correctly use $PAGER. You are throwing red herrings and derailing the discussion, please stop it. Specifically, the issue started as how to use vim as PAGER, and lead to what the semantics of the PAGER were. What to do when PAGER does not exist are orthogonal. My statements attempt to provide an expectation of the use cases a PAGER variable setting ought to be able to implement. It is relevant to deciding how to set $PAGER, your mail adds nothing to the topic. If you truly want to discuss how to actually use $PAGER correctly, start your own topic, and don't hijack this thread. manoj -- I like your SNOOPY POSTER!! Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Policy does not really specify how to handle $PAGER and its friends, but I have always assumed that it was OK for a package to do things like (error checking omitted for clarity): ... In that case, PAGER has to be set to just the name of a program, with no parameters or metacharacters embedded. I don't think this agrees very well with historical practice though -- I've had PAGER set to something like less -s for _decades_, and never had any problems, on more unix variants than I care to think about... If a program doesn't allow this, I think it's buggy. If debian specifies PAGER more exactly, the specification should _at least_ allow for space-separated options and require PATH searching. -Miles -- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Wed, Apr 19, 2006, Henning Makholm wrote: Policy does not really specify how to handle $PAGER and its friends Feel free to clone against policy, I agree that it would be cleaner to define how it should be called in policy (but it would still be nice to have man man document how $PAGER is invoked too, or link to policy). -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 18 Apr 2006, Loïc Minier uttered the following: reassign 363250 man retitle 363250 Please clarify how $PAGER is invoked in the man manpage stop Hi, On Tue, Apr 18, 2006, Rohan Dhruva wrote: export PAGER=col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - This $PAGER definition makes the assumption that it's passed to sh -c (you use pipes and quotes). The man manpage doesn't say that $PAGER is passed to sh -c, it says it will use $PAGER as the program to display the manual page. I suggest you use: export PAGER=sh -c \col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -\ which explicitely calls sh -c to handle pipes and quotes in the expected way. I expect to be able to pipe stuff to $PAGER, or invoke $PAGER on a text file, like so: % cat~/.bash_profile | $PAGER % $PAGER ~/.bash_profile manoj -- Be regular and orderly in your life, so that you may be violent and original in your work. -- Flaubert Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:12:04AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: which explicitely calls sh -c to handle pipes and quotes in the expected way. I expect to be able to pipe stuff to $PAGER, or invoke $PAGER on a text file, like so: % cat~/.bash_profile | $PAGER % $PAGER ~/.bash_profile That seems to be an awfully user-specific expectation, given that you can't assume that PAGER is set *at all* by default. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 19 Apr 2006, Steve Langasek uttered the following: On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:12:04AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: which explicitely calls sh -c to handle pipes and quotes in the expected way. I expect to be able to pipe stuff to $PAGER, or invoke $PAGER on a text file, like so: % cat~/.bash_profile | $PAGER % $PAGER ~/.bash_profile That seems to be an awfully user-specific expectation, given that you can't assume that PAGER is set *at all* by default. Err, if the PAGER is empty, default it to more. What does that have to do with the price of tea in china? If I, as a user, set PAGER such that it meets the above expectations, I expect other programs to work with my setting. I do not expect other programs on my system to have more stringent requirements than the ones given above. Having PAGER set to a value that can have stuff piped to it, to can be invoked on files, seems a reasonable requirement. manoj -- Long life is in store for you. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
At 1145360089 past the epoch, Rohan Dhruva wrote: # Set vim as the man pager export PAGER=col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - In those systems, it displays the man page properly in vim with full color. However, on using the same line on sid, the error given is snip I have a similar problem with setting $EDITOR to something like vim -gf: some programs pass this through to the shell, others look for a binary named 'vim -gf' in $PATH. Which is the correct behaviour and where is that defined, if at all? -- Jon Dowland http://alcopop.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
reassign 363250 man retitle 363250 Please clarify how $PAGER is invoked in the man manpage stop Hi, On Tue, Apr 18, 2006, Rohan Dhruva wrote: export PAGER=col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - This $PAGER definition makes the assumption that it's passed to sh -c (you use pipes and quotes). The man manpage doesn't say that $PAGER is passed to sh -c, it says it will use $PAGER as the program to display the manual page. I suggest you use: export PAGER=sh -c \col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -\ which explicitely calls sh -c to handle pipes and quotes in the expected way. You may also use your own /usr/local/bin/pager with: #!/bin/sh col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - and with PAGER=/usr/local/bin/pager. I am reassigning to man for the man manpage to be clarified with respect to the way $PAGER is called. Bye, -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Processed: Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]: reassign 363250 man Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge Warning: Unknown package 'man' Bug reassigned from package `general' to `man'. retitle 363250 Please clarify how $PAGER is invoked in the man manpage Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge Warning: Unknown package 'man' Changed Bug title. stop Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. Debian bug tracking system administrator (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
reassign 363250 man-db retitle 363250 please clarify in the man manpage how $PAGER is invoked stop Hi, On Tue, Apr 18, 2006, Rohan Dhruva wrote: I suggest you use: export PAGER=sh -c \col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -\ That didnt work. It works here, under zsh as well as under bash. Check with a new user. Are you using aliases? man: command exited with status 256: /usr/bin/zsoelim /tmp/zmanqn0tzd | /usr/ bin/tbl | /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc -rLL=89n -rLT=89n -Tutf8 | sh -c col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - I don't see anything similar being called on my system. I suggest you run something like: strace -o foo.strace -f -e execve -e signal= -q -v -s 200 man vim and attach the resulting foo.strace (warning: contains sensitive information). Also, please mention the version of man you are using (dpkg -l man-db), and your environment (env foo.env, warning: contains sensitive information). Bye, -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 4/18/06, Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: reassign 363250 manretitle 363250 Please clarify how $PAGER is invoked in the man manpagestopHi,On Tue, Apr 18, 2006, Rohan Dhruva wrote: export PAGER=col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - This $PAGER definition makes the assumption that it's passed to sh -c (you use pipes and quotes).The man manpage doesn't say that $PAGER is passed to sh -c, it says it will use $PAGER as the program to display the manual page. I suggest you use:export PAGER=sh -c \col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -\That didnt work. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ export PAGER=sh -c \col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -\[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ echo $PAGERsh -c col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ man vimReformatting vim(1), please wait...view: -s option is only applicable to ex.man: command exited with status 256: /usr/bin/zsoelim /tmp/zmanqn0tzd | /usr/bin/tbl | /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc -rLL=89n -rLT=89n -Tutf8 | sh -c col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ which explicitely calls sh -c to handle pipes and quotes in the expected way. You may also use your own /usr/local/bin/pager with:#!/bin/shcol -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - and with PAGER=/usr/local/bin/pager. I am reassigning to man for the man manpage to be clarified with respect to the way $PAGER is called.Which did not work either. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ cat /usr/local/bin/vipager#!/bin/sh col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ export PAGER=/usr/local/bin/vipager[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ echo $PAGER/usr/local/bin/vipager[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ man manReformatting man(1), please wait... view: -s option is only applicable to ex.man: command exited with status 256: /usr/bin/zsoelim /tmp/zmansyaLax | /usr/bin/tbl | /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc -rLL=89n -rLT=89n -Tutf8 | /usr/local/bin/vipager[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$Thanks for the help, please keep the ideas coming :)Rohan.-- Rohan DhruvaProud GNU/Linux user.Windows: Where do you want to go today?Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what?http://www.dhruva.be/
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Also, IMHO, topic is a bit wrong .. this bug applies to all man pages, not only the man manpage. Regards,-- Rohan DhruvaProud GNU/Linux user.Windows: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what?http://www.dhruva.be/
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
retitle 363250 Please clarify how $PAGER is invoked for any manpage.stopSorry for the spam, I did not know I can retitle bugs myself.-- Rohan DhruvaProud GNU/Linux user.Windows: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what?http://www.dhruva.be/
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On 4/18/06, Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: reassign 363250 man-db retitle 363250 please clarify in the man manpage how $PAGER is invoked stop Hi, On Tue, Apr 18, 2006, Rohan Dhruva wrote: I suggest you use: export PAGER=sh -c \col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -\ That didnt work. It works here, under zsh as well as under bash. Check with a new user. Are you using aliases? test is an absolutely new freshly created user. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ echo $PAGER sh -c col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ man vim Reformatting vim(1), please wait... view: -s option is only applicable to ex. man: command exited with status 256: /usr/bin/zsoelim /tmp/zmanujhMpV | /usr/bin/tbl | /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc -rLL=89n -rLT=89n -Tutf8 | sh -c col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ man: command exited with status 256: /usr/bin/zsoelim /tmp/zmanqn0tzd | /usr/ bin/tbl | /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc -rLL=89n -rLT=89n -Tutf8 | sh -c col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' - I don't see anything similar being called on my system. I suggest you run something like: strace -o foo.strace -f -e execve -e signal= -q -v -s 200 man vim and attach the resulting foo.strace (warning: contains sensitive information). Attached file -- man.strace Also, please mention the version of man you are using (dpkg -l man-db), and your environment (env foo.env, warning: contains sensitive information). [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ dpkg -l man-db Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Description +++-=-=-== ii man-db2.4.3-3 The on-line manual pager Attached file - man.env Thanks for the help, in case any more information is needed, please dont hesitate to ask. Also, the alias'es I use the are same as the ones in other distros, including sarge. I am attaching my .bashrc too, for reference. Regards, Rohan. -- Rohan Dhruva Proud GNU/Linux user. Windows: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what? http://www.dhruva.be/ bashrc Description: Binary data man.env Description: Binary data man.strace Description: Binary data
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
* Rohan Dhruva [Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:30:29 +0530]: view: -s option is only applicable to ex. % /usr/sbin/update-alternatives --display view | grep current -- Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es Debian Developer adeodato at debian.org — Quieto parao. Usted no está en condiciones de ir a ningún sitio. Dígame dónde está la muchacha y yo iré a por ella. — No sé dónde está. — Le voy a pedir que sea algo más específico. -- Carlos Ruiz Zafón, “La sombra del viento” -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
On Tue, Apr 18, 2006, Adeodato Simó wrote: view: -s option is only applicable to ex. % /usr/sbin/update-alternatives --display view | grep current (I redirected the discussion to the bug report for the second time; FYI, it was nview.) -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can gtk_main_run, but you can't gtk_widget_hide. --danw, 19-jul-04 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge
Scripsit Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I suggest you use:
export PAGER=sh -c \col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist
titlestring=MANPAGE' -\
which explicitely calls sh -c to handle pipes and quotes in the
expected way.
Policy does not really specify how to handle $PAGER and its friends,
but I have always assumed that it was OK for a package to do things
like (error checking omitted for clarity):
if( fork() == 0 ) {
char *pager = getenv(PAGER);
if( pager == NULL ) pager = /usr/bin/pager ;
execlp(getenv(PAGER),filename,NULL);
}
wait(NULL);
In that case, PAGER has to be set to just the name of a program, with
no parameters or metacharacters embedded.
You may also use your own /usr/local/bin/pager with:
#!/bin/sh
col -b | view -c 'set ft=man nomod nolist titlestring=MANPAGE' -
and with PAGER=/usr/local/bin/pager.
I think that is the more robust way for a user to do such things, and
the way that should be documented.
I am reassigning to man for the man manpage to be clarified with
respect to the way $PAGER is called.
Is this a man-specific problem? I would say it is a general problem of
policy being vague.
--
Henning Makholm There were few families that didn't have at least
one hopeful who, from Reading Day on, was the great
hope because of the way he handled his trisyllabics.
--
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