Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Hello, I am a member of Debian JP and wish to become an official maintainer of Debian. It is a great news and very welcomed in Debian JP that Mr. Ukai declared to volunteer to take charge of New Maintainers Interview in Japan. And many members in Debian JP are now waiting the time it is realized. Of course, I expect it is realized as fast as possible. If it is realized, I will try to be the first official maintainer from Debian JP among the maintainers interviewed by Mr. Ukai :-) There is no objections at all untill now but in spite of the question by Mr. Sano: From: Taketoshi Sano [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Homapages in list of maintainers Date: 15 May 1999 03:49:47 +0900 Are there any objections for Ukai's taking charge of New Maintainers Interview in Japan ? If not, Please tell me the address to contact about this. Is [EMAIL PROTECTED] the correct address to contact ? it seems no answer is given yet. Is something more needed for Ukai's proposal to be realised ? I wish a fast and practical answer from one of the authorized members and it is realised as fast as possible. Or something is going on already where I do not know ? Thanks in advance, 1999.5.17 -- Debian JP Developer - much more I18N of Debian Atsuhito Kohda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Department of Math., Tokushima Univ.
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Are there any objections for Ukai's taking charge of New Maintainers Interview in Japan ? If not, Please tell me the address to contact about this. Is [EMAIL PROTECTED] the correct address to contact ? In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] Taketoshi Sano [EMAIL PROTECTED] (me :) writes: Hi ! In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fumitoshi UKAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can volunteer to do it, if it is really needed and anyone object to it. I've been maintain Debian JP machines, ftp archive, web server, mailing-list and Debian official mirror in Japan about two years or three. Thank you for your proposal :). I think it is required very much to get the Debian project to be more global organization as fast as we can, because if more people can join the project smoothly, the project can get more resource to do various task. if someone has the required condition to pass the verification by the New Maintainers Group, I can not find the merit of keep him (or her) in the long waiting queue. If the problem is only related to the human power, the action to do should be to increase the member of the Group, not to keep the queue longer. Adam Di Calro told Remember that approving new maintainer is a very _sensitive_ area, and I think it should be, but if the members in the Debian Project want to make this project to be true global and universal, an action to make the waiting queue shorter should be taken anyway now or in the near future. I am eager to know if anyone has objection. -- Taketoshi Sano: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-upload-queue in Japan (Re: Homapages in list of maintainers)
On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 05:29:28AM +0900, Taketoshi Sano wrote: How is the other nicname chiark, elrangen, and giano named ? Are they named after the name of the location ? The machines had those names in their FQDNs, ftp.uni-erlangen.de, chiark.greenend.ac.uk, giano.com.dist.unige.it. -- enJoy -*/\*- http://jagor.srce.hr/~jrodin/
Re: debian-upload-queue in Japan (Re: Homapages in list of maintainers)
Thank you for your quick action :) In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fumitoshi UKAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've already set up debian upload queue daemon on master.debian.or.jp. It seems to work fine, Susumu Osawa has uploaded aumix package as powerpc binary NMU via this upload queue yesterday:) Then we should inform [EMAIL PROTECTED] about this to make update the /etc/dupload.conf file, as Josip Rodin told here and me (Thank you Josip :). Now, I'm wondering what nickname is used for this upload queue. Since master-jp is already used for nickname to dupload for JP archives (in Debian JP Project), different name is better to distinguish, I think. Any idea? Even if the master-jp was not used, I think it is not suitable, because it resembles master. I don't like master-?? coming all over the world ;) How is the other nicname chiark, elrangen, and giano named ? Are they named after the name of the location ? I personally prefer sakura, a Cherry blossom, kind of flower. It is famous in Japan, as a gift from Japan to be planted along the Potomac(?) river in the Washington D.C. But another member of JP project said that name is used for another host which is used to build the sparc binary... Then, how about tokyo ? It is the name of a famous city that can be recognisable globally, I suppose. Or fuji ? the name of the highest mountain in Japan. -- Taketoshi Sano: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Hi. Thank you for your replies. I got relief to know this long waiting queue issue is rather common to all newcomers. In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] Adam Di Carlo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, well, it takes from 4 weeks to 6 months or longer for *all* people. I agree this should be shorter... Anyhow Debian-JP is *not* getting singled out. Everyone has this issue. I remeber the mail about 6 months waiting recently on this list. It's surely uncomfortable state which should be avoidable as much as we can. IF there's not way the guy can get a phone call, I'm afraid there's no way they can be confirmed and become a developer. Maybe he can get a call on holiday, I suppose. He is only afraid that he can't set time windows to new maitainers team, and he thought that the time of getting the call is unpredictable at all. According to James, all he says is it's unlikely to be between 8AM and 4PM British time on Monday-Friday. No one is asking you to sit by the phone for 3 months. But if you can only be reached at number XX-YYY at the hours of 3-7 GMT on Saturday, then tell the new maintainers that. Give them time windows that work for you. Give them a few different numbers and suggested times. I mean, common sense, people. Thanks for your information. That is what I want to know. Sure, but put people in the queue. It may take up to 3 months or longer if you're hard to reach on the phone -- so just plan on that. 3 months or longer ! (sigh) but if it is required condition, all we can do is just to wait in the queue ... Well, I think it's pretty clear that we need more active people in the New Maintainer Group. I hereby volunteer (I'm in the US, NYC area, and only speak English and smidgeons of Spanish, German, and French). I respect the people in the New Maintainer Group including you for their work. I hope there were the one in Japan, but no one can force the current official maintainer in JP to take charge of it,,, P.S. I think, and hope that the Debian is open project. It is -- don't get paranoid. The New Maintainer Group is just swamped a bit. I think it needs more people -- highly trustable people, of course. I hope the New Maintaier Group can find the highly trustable and active official maintainer as their member in Japan, or somewhere in the far-east area. -- Taketoshi Sano: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Thank you for your reply. I'm impressed your idea. In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it would be great for Debian JP and Debian to find someone in Japan who can do interviews in Japan and report to the new-maintainer people in Debian proper (in Europe or U.S.) That is to say, it would be good to have a new-maintainer person located in Japan. I think so. and more, I hope that the site for dupload established in Japan so that we can select the near site to upload our packages. In current standard /etc/dupload.conf contains chiark (uk), master (us?), erlangen (de), and giano (it). I hope that one of the JP's site is registered as the official upload site. But it may takes some effort in JP project also, and I am only just plain member in JP project, so I have to debate about it in JP project also, not only here,,, This could speed up the process and improve communications. I am glad to hear from you :) Thank you. -- Taketoshi Sano: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
From: Adam Di Carlo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Homapages in list of maintainers Date: 11 May 1999 03:18:28 -0400 I would hope that we could accept official Japanese identification. I'd have to leave it up to James to say for sure. I believe that what kind of idetification is acceptable is essential issue. I hope that the condition of identification is stated much more explicitly and practically so that it causes no confusion. Yes -- it really sounds like we need a native Japanese new maintainer processor, or at least someone fluent. I hope this *does* happen but it may take a while to happen. Remember that approving new maintainer is a very _sensitive_ area -- I know James is a little (justifiably) paranoid about delegating this to others. Thank you for your kind comments. 1999.5.12 -- ** Atsuhito Kohda Dep. Math., Tokushima Univ. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
On Wed, May 12, 1999 at 08:09:01AM +0900, Taketoshi Sano wrote: I hope that the site for dupload established in Japan so that we can select the near site to upload our packages. In current standard /etc/dupload.conf contains chiark (uk), master (us?), erlangen (de), and giano (it). I hope that one of the JP's site is registered as the official upload site. But it may takes some effort in JP project also, and I am only just plain member in JP project, so I have to debate about it in JP project also, not only here,,, You just have to have an Incoming directory on one of your servers (maybe ftp.debian.or.jp?), and the queue daemon (that is used on chiark, erlangen and giano) installed. Coordinate that with your FTP admins, and with one of the developers from both Debian and Debian JP. Coincidentally, jgg already asked for the location of the queue daemon on this list recently - it's in project/misc/debianqueued-0.8.tar.gz Remember to inform [EMAIL PROTECTED] when you set it up, so he can update his /etc/dupload.conf file. -- enJoy -*/\*- http://jagor.srce.hr/~jrodin/
debian-upload-queue in Japan (Re: Homapages in list of maintainers)
At 12 May 1999 08:09:01 +0900, Taketoshi Sano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think so. and more, I hope that the site for dupload established in Japan so that we can select the near site to upload our packages. In current standard /etc/dupload.conf contains chiark (uk), master (us?), erlangen (de), and giano (it). I hope that one of the JP's site is registered as the official upload site. But it may takes some effort in JP project also, and I am only just plain member in JP project, so I have to debate about it in JP project also, not only here,,, I've already set up debian upload queue daemon on master.debian.or.jp. It seems to work fine, Susumu Osawa has uploaded aumix package as powerpc binary NMU via this upload queue yesterday:) Now, I'm wondering what nickname is used for this upload queue. Since master-jp is already used for nickname to dupload for JP archives (in Debian JP Project), different name is better to distinguish, I think. Any idea? Regards, Fumitoshi UKAI
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Hi ! In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fumitoshi UKAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can volunteer to do it, if it is really needed and anyone object to it. I've been maintain Debian JP machines, ftp archive, web server, mailing-list and Debian official mirror in Japan about two years or three. Thank you for your proposal :). I think it is required very much to get the Debian project to be more global organization as fast as we can, because if more people can join the project smoothly, the project can get more resource to do various task. if someone has the required condition to pass the verification by the New Maintainers Group, I can not find the merit of keep him (or her) in the long waiting queue. If the problem is only related to the human power, the action to do should be to increase the member of the Group, not to keep the queue longer. Adam Di Calro told Remember that approving new maintainer is a very _sensitive_ area, and I think it should be, but if the members in the Debian Project want to make this project to be true global and universal, an action to make the waiting queue shorter should be taken anyway now or in the near future. I am eager to know if anyone has objection. -- Taketoshi Sano: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
From: Adam Di Carlo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Homapages in list of maintainers Date: 10 May 1999 15:02:11 -0400 Yes, well, it takes from 4 weeks to 6 months or longer for *all* people. I agree this should be shorter... Anyhow Debian-JP is *not* getting singled out. Everyone has this issue. Yes, of course this is general issue, not specific to Debian JP. But this is still a BIG problem to be pointed out. There is no requirement that I know of that any identification must be written in English. It is practically very important to know what is acceptable and what is not as identification. Does this mean Japanese driver's license (written completely in Japanese) is acceptable in real ? # If so, I will stop the plan to obtain my passport for the certification. IF there's not way the guy can get a phone call, I'm afraid there's no way they can be confirmed and become a developer. Well, of course he has a way to get a phone call, but I mean, common sense, people. by your common sense which has practical meaning in the process of verification for Japanese candidates - communication on a phone between foreigners short on substance, or - communication on a phone between Japanese with much more substance under the condition that there are highly trustable people in Japan :-) By the way, there are about 50 (local) maintainers in Debian JP and among them, there are already eight official maintainers. Thanks in advance, 1999.5.11 -- ** Atsuhito Kohda Dep. Math., Tokushima Univ. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
From: John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Homapages in list of maintainers Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:26:29 -0700 I think it would be great for Debian JP and Debian to find someone in Japan who can do interviews in Japan and report to the new-maintainer people in Debian proper (in Europe or U.S.) That is to say, it would be good to have a new-maintainer person located in Japan. This could speed up the process and improve communications. This is the main point that I want to discuss. The above method, which I also proposed several days ago, is the most practical, efficient and reliable solution, I believe. Official maintainers of Debian JP have already much information on the reliability, ability and identity of the candidates from Debian JP through their activity in Debian JP. So he can communicate much more details on a phone call with candidates and if necessary he can report the results to members of new-maintainer with e-mail which is much easier than with a phone call for Japanese. But members of new-maintainer team in (for example) the U.S. get such information only through a phone call which may result short on substance because of language problem. Which is more reasonable ? Thanks in advance, 1999.5.11 -- ** Atsuhito Kohda Dep. Math., Tokushima Univ. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Atsuhito Kohda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Adam Di Carlo [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no requirement that I know of that any identification must be written in English. It is practically very important to know what is acceptable and what is not as identification. Does this mean Japanese driver's license (written completely in Japanese) is acceptable in real ? # If so, I will stop the plan to obtain my passport for the certification. I would hope that we could accept official Japanese identification. I'd have to leave it up to James to say for sure. by your common sense which has practical meaning in the process of verification for Japanese candidates - communication on a phone between foreigners short on substance, or - communication on a phone between Japanese with much more substance under the condition that there are highly trustable people in Japan :-) By the way, there are about 50 (local) maintainers in Debian JP and among them, there are already eight official maintainers. Yes -- it really sounds like we need a native Japanese new maintainer processor, or at least someone fluent. I hope this *does* happen but it may take a while to happen. Remember that approving new maintainer is a very _sensitive_ area -- I know James is a little (justifiably) paranoid about delegating this to others. -- .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
At Mon, 10 May 1999 13:26:29 -0700, John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, I want to see ruby packaged ! I hear that it is already packaged for Debian JP. I ran the fibonacci test in the source and it really beat perl badly. I even improved the perl version and ruby still won. The ruby packages is just suffering from the problem (I'm not criticizing the new-maintainer members. I really respect them and their jobs). The Debian JP maintainer of the ruby packages is waiting for the answer from new-maintainer members. He'll do them as soon as he'll be registered as a official Debian developer. The current Debian JP version is available from: ftp://ftp.jp.debian.org/debian-jp/ dists/potato-jp/main/binary-i386/interpreters/ -- Keita Maehara [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
At Mon, 10 May 1999 13:26:29 -0700, John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it would be great for Debian JP and Debian to find someone in Japan who can do interviews in Japan and report to the new-maintainer people in Debian proper (in Europe or U.S.) That is to say, it would be good to have a new-maintainer person located in Japan. This could speed up the process and improve communications. I can volunteer to do it, if it is really needed and anyone object to it. I've been maintain Debian JP machines, ftp archive, web server, mailing-list and Debian official mirror in Japan about two years or three. Regards, Fumitoshi UKAI
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
From: Fumitoshi UKAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Homapages in list of maintainers Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:23:21 +0900 I think it would be great for Debian JP and Debian to find someone in Japan who can do interviews in Japan and report to the new-maintainer people in Debian proper (in Europe or U.S.) That is to say, it would be good to have a new-maintainer person located in Japan. This could speed up the process and improve communications. I can volunteer to do it, if it is really needed and anyone object to it. I've been maintain Debian JP machines, ftp archive, web server, mailing-list and Debian official mirror in Japan about two years or three. As I am a mathematician I must be strict with logic ;-) Perhaps anyone object to it is a typo of no one object to it About the point if it is really needed, it is really, really needed and if Mr. UKAI can do it, it is really great for both Debian and Debian JP. Thanks in advance, 1999.5.12 -- ** Atsuhito Kohda Dep. Math., Tokushima Univ. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Hi, I'm one of the members in Debian JP, and a self candidate to a maintainer in Debian. # I have sent application mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at May 05 1999. # I have much curiosity at the processing time to join the Debian project. # (I waited to join XFree86 as a non-voting member just 11days, 2 years ago) In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] Atsuhito Kohda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Andreas Tille [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Homapages in list of maintainers Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:27:03 +0200 (METDST) By the way: is there really a need to split Debian JP from Debian?? Sounds curious for me. No, completely no :-) My poor English may confuse you but the aim of Debian JP is - to help Debian to be more internationalized, - and so Debian JP will contribute packages created by maintainers of Debian JP to Debian. ... But some barriers prevent us from becoming official maintainers so the merging Debian JP into Debian does not work well now. I have heard that some self-candidates from Debian JP felt that the Debian Project rejects them as a maintainer, because: one of them had not receive no answers for long time, more than a month is too long enough for ordinary people. one of them did not have no English-written certificate, He was a high school student at that time, and did not have the passport. He can not get Driver's License since the laws in Japan prohibit those under 18-years-old to get the license, as well as many high school in Japan also prohibit their student to get the license as the school rules. (In fact, the Driver's License itself is no-use because that is all written in Japanese, so the required is not only the license itself, but also International License with extra fee.) He got the chance to meet fellow Debian maintainers face to face after all, but it takes some extra period and effort unnecessary. and one of them had not enough time to wait the oversea call at home. He worked at laboratory, and during the experimentation, he can't respond any call. The experimentation sometimes continues all over the night. He can make time to debianize some software and he already uploads some interesting packages to Debian JP, but he can't upload to Debian now although he himself wishes to do it. He wishes that let him know at least the time of calling in advance, so he can prepare to respond the call. Currently, nothing is to be known when the telephone rings, even at day, night, or midnight. developers-reference told us A phone number where we can call you. Remember that the new maintainer team usually calls during evening hours to save on long distance tolls. Please do not give a work number, unless you are generally there in the evening. but When is the evening hours ? or Where this the evening hours have meaning at ? We don't know where the person at new-maintainer lives in. If he lives in, say, NewYork city, the evening hours may be 17:00-21:00 there, and 07:00-11:00 morning here. Without the announce in advance, those who lives in Japan have some difficulty to continue to wait a telephone call hopelessly for a few months at such working time. Some days ago, the dispute arose on Debian JP project, about the release of next JP Packages. We think that the JP Packages should (at least) be slim as much as we can, and our goal is the abolishment of JP Packages (all JP Pacakges either go into Debian or get being unnecessary, that means we do not require the separate localized packages to handle with our language). Some members including current Debian maintainers (whom we call as official maintainers) insist that the action should have taken now to speed up the contribution of JP packages into Debian. The proposed action is to make an explicitly declaration that official maintainers can freely take and move the JP packages debianized by non official maintainers. Why is this needed ? There is a barrier or filter to be a maintainer on Debian currently, and it is easy to take and move than to wait patiently the willing JP member to be registered as a maintainer. BTW, related to that dispute, an official maitainer said the filter works effectively. Is this the common idea to Debian people ? Does Debian needs the filter to trap and drop the willing self-candidate who have made and maitained a qualified package already ? developers-reference told us: The process of registering as a developer is a process of verifying your identity and intentions. As the number of people working on Debian GNU/Linux has grown to over 400 people and our systems are used in several very important places we have to be careful about being compromised. Therefore, we need to verify new maintainers before we can give them accounts on our servers and letting them upload packages. I understand (or at least hope to understand) this and I think
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
Taketoshi Sano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have heard that some self-candidates from Debian JP felt that the Debian Project rejects them as a maintainer, because: one of them had not receive no answers for long time, more than a month is too long enough for ordinary people. Yes, well, it takes from 4 weeks to 6 months or longer for *all* people. I agree this should be shorter... Anyhow Debian-JP is *not* getting singled out. Everyone has this issue. one of them did not have no English-written certificate, There is no requirement that I know of that any identification must be written in English. and one of them had not enough time to wait the oversea call at home. He worked at laboratory, and during the experimentation, he can't respond any call. IF there's not way the guy can get a phone call, I'm afraid there's no way they can be confirmed and become a developer. developers-reference told us A phone number where we can call you. Remember that the new maintainer team usually calls during evening hours to save on long distance tolls. Please do not give a work number, unless you are generally there in the evening. but When is the evening hours ? or Where this the evening hours have meaning at ? We don't know where the person at new-maintainer lives in. If he lives in, say, NewYork city, the evening hours may be 17:00-21:00 there, and 07:00-11:00 morning here. Without the announce in advance, those who lives in Japan have some difficulty to continue to wait a telephone call hopelessly for a few months at such working time. According to James, all he says is it's unlikely to be between 8AM and 4PM British time on Monday-Friday. No one is asking you to sit by the phone for 3 months. But if you can only be reached at number XX-YYY at the hours of 3-7 GMT on Saturday, then tell the new maintainers that. Give them time windows that work for you. Give them a few different numbers and suggested times. I mean, common sense, people. Some members including current Debian maintainers (whom we call as official maintainers) insist that the action should have taken now to speed up the contribution of JP packages into Debian. The proposed action is to make an explicitly declaration that official maintainers can freely take and move the JP packages debianized by non official maintainers. Why is this needed ? There is a barrier or filter to be a maintainer on Debian currently, and it is easy to take and move than to wait patiently the willing JP member to be registered as a maintainer. Sure, but put people in the queue. It may take up to 3 months or longer if you're hard to reach on the phone -- so just plan on that. BTW, related to that dispute, an official maitainer said the filter works effectively. Is this the common idea to Debian people ? Does Debian needs the filter to trap and drop the willing self-candidate who have made and maitained a qualified package already ? Well, sure, this is a decent stop-gap measure, so long as the filter person is able to do their job and keep up, and forward bugs on to the actual person who knows the code. I understand (or at least hope to understand) this and I think also some verification mechanism is required. But I doubt the enoughness and effectiveness of the current processing mechanism. Well, I think it's pretty clear that we need more active people in the New Maintainer Group. I hereby volunteer (I'm in the US, NYC area, and only speak English and smidgeons of Spanish, German, and French). P.S. I think, and hope that the Debian is open project. It is -- don't get paranoid. The New Maintainer Group is just swamped a bit. I think it needs more people -- highly trustable people, of course. -- .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
Re: Homapages in list of maintainers
*Taketoshi Sano wrote: Hi, I'm one of the members in Debian JP, and a self candidate to a maintainer in Debian. # I have sent application mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at May 05 1999. # I have much curiosity at the processing time to join the Debian project. # (I waited to join XFree86 as a non-voting member just 11days, 2 years ago) I have heard that some self-candidates from Debian JP felt that the Debian Project rejects them as a maintainer, because: one of them had not receive no answers for long time, more than a month is too long enough for ordinary people. one of them did not have no English-written certificate, These complaints are very common on debian-devel, and debian-mentors. Many people from many countries, including the U.S. and in Europe feel that their application is taking too long to process. Some feel, I think, that they are given special bad treatment. I think the answer is always that the people processing the applications are overworked volunteers, usually doing several jobs for Debian. I have seen more that once, people sending email, and thinking perhaps they would never be accepted and now they are accepted and active developers. I think it would be great for Debian JP and Debian to find someone in Japan who can do interviews in Japan and report to the new-maintainer people in Debian proper (in Europe or U.S.) That is to say, it would be good to have a new-maintainer person located in Japan. This could speed up the process and improve communications. By the way, I want to see ruby packaged ! I hear that it is already packaged for Debian JP. I ran the fibonacci test in the source and it really beat perl badly. I even improved the perl version and ruby still won. -- John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre
