Re: Please test this woody cd image
Addtional boxes boot-tested with woody-isolinux: Boxdisksidepci bf24 Comapaq Presario 5640/5670 IDE OK OK Dell Dimension XPS 733rIDE OK OK Dual Celeron MSI6120 SCSI+IDE OK OK Em2 QDI Brilliant SCSI OK OK (compact tested OK too) Dell Inspiron 4100 laptop IDE OK OK A few comments about the installer program: 1. Is it possible to generate a boot log, and to be able to view it while installing? 2. It would be nice to be able to back out, or doing a reboot _before_ having to go as long as to the keyboard setup phase. You maybe changed your mind before coming that far: What am I doing?, I don't have all info available!, whats happening next?, I want to quit the install!, etc. 3. When coming to the part of the install where you have several choices, the reboot, restart and prevoius step options should be higher up in the menu. This enables you to see a way out of the install procedure, if needed. Eagerly waiting for the woody release, Svante Signell Matt Zimmerman writes: On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 03:49:03PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: I tested the isolinux boot image on 3 random workstations (Dell and HP) as well as an IBM ThinkPad T21. All of them worked fine with both idepci and bf24 kernels. Also tried a Compaq Deskpro, both idepci and bf24 worked. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wednesday 10 April 2002 21:28, Josip Rodin wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:14:36PM +0200, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: If you have troubles during the installation process, please report your problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are people working on the dutch translation of the installation? If not, I could do it. We still don't have anyone to update the Dutch translation of the web pages, which should be much less work than the installation manual... nudge nudge How much is it? If not too much (i.e. 3 hours) I'll do it... Egon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Sun, Apr 14, 2002 at 07:19:20PM +0200, Egon Willighagen wrote: If you have troubles during the installation process, please report your problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are people working on the dutch translation of the installation? If not, I could do it. We still don't have anyone to update the Dutch translation of the web pages, which should be much less work than the installation manual... nudge nudge How much is it? If not too much (i.e. 3 hours) I'll do it... You have CVS access for the news items already, go check it out :) The stats show 19 outdated files... http://www.de.debian.org/devel/website/stats/nl.html -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:45:35 -0400 Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:06:44AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Hello everybody, release is coming soon ... and we need a bit of feedback about a new feature we plan to use on CD1 of Debian woody for i386. On CD *1*? Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core component mere weeks before the scheduled release? There is no way that it could receive sufficient testing in that time. If we must have a new experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set. (that said, I see no problem with making the first CD contain fewer packages so that it can fit on a 5cm CD; that sounds useful indeed) Its not the end of the world if a CD doesnt boot via the bios, the user can always boot from a rescue floppy. Glenn pgpDaqcXUdA3z.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Erik Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] The burden of proof is on you, who want to make a change with such broad effect so late in the release cycle. I have never even tried isolinux, while I have used syslinux many times. Other distros (such as slackware and mandrake) are already using isolinux in their installers. FYI mandrake is still not using isolinux on its first CD. We provide isolinux on the second CD, but most people don't use it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
#include hallo.h Pixel wrote on Sat Apr 13, 2002 um 12:40:43PM: FYI mandrake is still not using isolinux on its first CD. We provide isolinux on the second CD, but most people don't use it. Well, you also do not use a code veteran as the default kernel. Gruss/Regards, Eduard. -- In /etc steht, was Du denkst. In /proc steht, was das OS denkt. Lutz Donnerhacke in doc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Fri Apr 12, 2002 at 11:35:31AM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote: I just tested it on all the bootable x86 systems in my house: ... Toshiba 490CDT Satellite Pro Laptop: Works That's good news. What was your success booting the Potato CD on this laptop? In my experience, the Toshiba laptops (the 490CDT in particular) would not boot the Potato CD. As far as I'm aware, this was because the boot image on the CD was based on a 2.88MB floppy image, where the Toshiba laptops could only handle a 1.44MB image. I'm impressed to hear Toshiba laptops can boot normally again :) I didn't try Potato on this laptop. Its on loan to me while doing some software development. But at least with the new isolinux boot CD, I just dropped in the CD and it booted just fine into the installer with both the default idepci and with the bf24 kernels -Erik -- Erik B. Andersen http://codepoet-consulting.com/ --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons-- pgpZEMLYBmH5s.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Am 11.04.02 um 20:31:55 schrieb Anthony Towns: Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. Complete install success on an IBM Thinkpad A30. (Except for the odd locales behaviour, but that got nothing to do with the boot CD.) Bye, Mike -- |=| Michael Piefel |=| Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin |=| Tel. (+49 30) 2093 3831 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 10:33:19AM +0200, Michael Piefel wrote: Am 11.04.02 um 20:31:55 schrieb Anthony Towns: Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. Complete install success on an IBM Thinkpad A30. I just test booted an IBM Thinkpad A21p and a Dell Inspiron 8100, both work. For the latter isolinux is a great advantage because the BIOS knows how to boot CDs but not how to deal with multiple boot images... CU Thimo -- Thimo Neubauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 frozen! See http://www.debian.org/ for details pgpJts1s1MWDS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Anthony == Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes: Anthony Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Anthony Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any Anthony computers you have handy. If it doesn't work on a machine Anthony where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists! It failed to boot an IBM Aptiva 2161-C8E desktop with a 1/19/1997 BIOS. This 166Mhz Pentium box has been my trusty machine for 5 years, and boots the potato r3 CD and also another woody netinst ISO (the one found starting at www.debian.org, based on boot floppies 3.0.19 and downloaded from http://people.debian.org/~ieure/netinst, which is also SYSLINUX based and it works great on this machine). Anyone clue me into why my IBM won't boot this CD? Raphael's ISO works boots up just great on a Compaq Armada M300 laptop, and my Soyo Dragon+ based desktop (Award BIOS, KT266A, which also works with Raphael's multiboot images). Cheers! Shyamal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 08:38:00AM -0500, Shyamal Prasad wrote: It failed to boot an IBM Aptiva 2161-C8E desktop with a 1/19/1997 BIOS. This 166Mhz Pentium box has been my trusty machine for 5 years, and boots the potato r3 CD and also another woody netinst ISO (the one Well, I guess the question is do we want to support new machines or old machines; it doesn't seem that we can do both. (I'd vote for the former because we need to move forward, and it's not like we're removing the floppy boot option.) -- Mike Stone -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:31:55PM +1000, Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au was heard to say: Additionally, it's very easy to test: find random systems, reboot them with the small CD Raphael's prepared and check you can get into the installer. You don't need to go all the way through the install, nor worry about damaging your system at all -- as soon as you get to the pretty installer screens, you're done. Works here. (this is a newish system I built myself, with an Abit motherboard and a flaky Iomega CD-R drive) I'll try it on some friends' systems later today, assuming they don't run and hide when they see me coming with a CD :) I even went through most of the install process, nearly giving myself a heart attack when I rebooted and /home was missing. (the partition numbers shifted around when I ran fdisk, apparently; adjusting fstab fixed that) I'll assume there's a good reason for using the kernel framebuffer in the bf2.4 disks (it was very slow on my computer), but (at the risk of inviting a massive flamewar) I'm wondering whether it might be a good idea for the default language to be English? I don't know how the userbase is distributed, but if it resembles the distribution of developers at all, most people will want to have an English (or maybe German) installation. (some fraction of people, regardless of nationality, will just hit Enter reflexively at the language selection screen, and making the default the most widely understood language [0] will minimize the total amount of confusion generated) Daniel [0] whatever that is; my impression is that it is some en_*, but whatever. -- / Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---\ | You are in a maze of twisty little signatures, all alike. | \ News without the $$ -- National Public Radio -- http://www.npr.org / -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Just a note: I'm sure everyone will be disappointed to hear that the isolinux CD does not boot in bochs ;-) Daniel -- / Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---\ | Note that fires are not restricted to dormitories. | | Indeed, fire can occur in off-campus residences as well. | | -- Brown University Fire Safety Guide | \- Got APT? -- Debian GNU/Linux http://www.debian.org / -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 06:40:17PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote: On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 11:35:31AM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote: On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 01:38:14PM -0600, Erik Andersen wrote: ... I just tested it on all the bootable x86 systems in my house: ... Toshiba 490CDT Satellite Pro Laptop: Works That's good news. What was your success booting the Potato CD on this laptop? i booted it on my toshiba 330cds laptop,and it worked fine. i test booted into bf24 and idepci. and yes, this model worked with the 2.88 el torito images, too :) Oh OK. Maybe it's just my laptop that fails then :) Though I seem to recall some other people with Toshiba laptops were having problems booting from CD when potato was released. Drew -- PGP public key available at http://people.debian.org/~dparsons/drewskey.txt Fingerprint: A110 EAE1 D7D2 8076 5FE0 EC0A B6CE 7041 6412 4E4A -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Fri 12 Apr 2002, Daniel Burrows wrote: Just a note: I'm sure everyone will be disappointed to hear that the isolinux CD does not boot in bochs ;-) Wel, it boots just fine in VMware 3.0 (which basically uses a Phoenix BIOS). What package does the apt source selection belong to? Because I chose Netherlands and then http, ftp.surfnet.nl but that gave 404 errors. ftp.snt.utwente.nl works fine. Paul Slootman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 09:48:36AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 08:38:00AM -0500, Shyamal Prasad wrote: It failed to boot an IBM Aptiva 2161-C8E desktop with a 1/19/1997 BIOS. This 166Mhz Pentium box has been my trusty machine for 5 years, and boots the potato r3 CD and also another woody netinst ISO (the one Well, I guess the question is do we want to support new machines or old machines; it doesn't seem that we can do both. (I'd vote for the former because we need to move forward, and it's not like we're removing the floppy boot option.) Also, PGI currently uses syslinux and will continue to do past its 1.0 release. PGI works on i386, of course, and may be a good candidate for legacy hardware support when the official Debian installer can't bend over backwards that far anymore. (PGI does not, however, support floppy-disk-based installs.) There's more information about PGI at http://hackers.progeny.com/pgi/. -- G. Branden Robinson| One man's magic is another man's Debian GNU/Linux | engineering. Supernatural is a [EMAIL PROTECTED] | null word. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Robert Heinlein pgpCPls6ihkf2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Mike On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 08:38:00AM -0500, Shyamal Prasad Mike wrote: It failed to boot an IBM Aptiva 2161-C8E desktop with a 1/19/1997 BIOS. This 166Mhz Pentium box has been my trusty machine for 5 years, and boots the potato r3 CD and also another woody netinst ISO (the one Mike Well, I guess the question is do we want to support new Mike machines or old machines; it doesn't seem that we can do Mike both. (I'd vote for the former because we need to move Mike forward, and it's not like we're removing the floppy boot Mike option.) No disagreement there. I don't mind if my old PC doesn't boot off the first CD, and I'm all for better support for new hardware. The issue I wanted to highlight was that a bf 3.0.19 based netinst ISO works great on this machine(http://people.debian.org/~ieure/netinst) with all the syslinux features (I can choose a kernel, hit F3 for help, etc.). However, the image Raphael requested testing for does not. What'd done differently? I'm not boot expert, but it seems possible that a small change might make this CD more usable on a wider range of machines (since I have found at least on syslinux based CD that does work). My machine is old, but not unmodern - it's got PCI and USB support, has booted every other CD I've ever come across, and has the right horse power to make a good Linux machine. I'm at work and I can't look at my CD, so if I got some detail wrong don't shoot me. Cheers from the ingoramus! Shyamal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Shyamal The issue I wanted to highlight was that a bf 3.0.19 Shyamal based netinst ISO works great on this Shyamal machine(http://people.debian.org/~ieure/netinst) with all Shyamal the syslinux features (I can choose a kernel, hit F3 for Shyamal help, etc.). Ummm...I may be talking through my hat here. Maybe I couldn't choose a kernel, but it *did* boot. To the first image.I'll have to check when I get back home how much control I had /Shyamal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
I tested the isolinux boot image on 3 random workstations (Dell and HP) as well as an IBM ThinkPad T21. All of them worked fine with both idepci and bf24 kernels. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 03:49:03PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: I tested the isolinux boot image on 3 random workstations (Dell and HP) as well as an IBM ThinkPad T21. All of them worked fine with both idepci and bf24 kernels. Also tried a Compaq Deskpro, both idepci and bf24 worked. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 12 April 2002 12:49, Matt Zimmerman wrote: I tested the isolinux boot image on 3 random workstations (Dell and HP) as well as an IBM ThinkPad T21. All of them worked fine with both idepci and bf24 kernels. Also tried on a PIII-450 i686 + 256MB RAM Worked fine for me. - -- David D.W. Downey [EMAIL PROTECTED] libpam-pgsql Debian Maintainer Upstream Source http://libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8t0sJJRhrFsWna/YRAvNxAJ4u3PyIamSM057pEdToyquDVkNtoQCeJ98I vrXW98sypw9sHQgVZBtfbtI= =6rRX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Tested a PII - 266 with 192 RAM (1997-8 Siemens Xpert) - bf24 ... successfully MH -- (Dr.) Michael Hummel ** fprint = F24D EAC6 E3D7 372C 9122 D510 EB24 01CA 0B56 B518 id: 1024D/0B56B518 key: http://www.seitung.net/key pgpVV1XfVkeSE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Well, I'm officially removing myself from any questions of what should be on what CD and whether to use isolinux or not. So don't look at me, I need to focus on making sure boot-floppies work for 3.0, 3.0r1, etc. -- ...Adam Di Carlo..[EMAIL PROTECTED]...URL:http://www.onshored.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
#include hallo.h Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:31:12PM: Well, no. :) idepci is known to fail for people with scsi and new ide hardware, so it's not really the best choice either. There probably is no best choice, but a system with a menu where you can choose a choice is probably better than any arbitrary default. I have installed many SCSI systems (including the one that I'm using right now) with potato CD #1, which I assume has a similar configuration. I've Your assumption is WRONG. The old vanilla Flavor used there had lots of drivers. Idepci does not. I absolutely agree that a choice on CD 1 would be superior, especially since it would make it possible to have the choice of a 2.4 kernel while only using one CD. But I think it would be even better to make a high-quality Yeah, highquality Debian distro, not installalbe on many modern systems. Gruss/Regards, Eduard. -- php ist an sich ne recht nutzlose sprache wenn da nicht soviele dinge so einfach drin moeglich waeren -- Getty in #debian.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
#include hallo.h Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:26:45PM: Do you follow those distributions' user and support mailing lists? I certainly don't, so I've no idea who can or can't install them. What I do Oh, please stop talking about theoretical issues without any real evidence. hear quite often is the only thing that would install was Debian [and NetBSD]. Yeah, often talking about their most broken machines, where people did manage to install using Debian _floppy_ disks. Does not count here. A search on lists.debian.org shows: http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200111/msg00016.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00258.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00260.html and nothing else ever. The couple of messages in 200108 are all musing and As said before, show me ONE failure report (where the failure is definitely caused by isolinux). I guess you CANNOT. no code or testing. Last August would have been a good time to start experimenting with this if it was intended for woody. Did YOU help introducing ANY new features in boot-floppies? I18n? Kernel 2.4, other filesystems, RAID support, lots of bugfixes in the existing code, etc. etc.? Either you can continue your mission of distruction, or you stop crying about lost time. If we should work out and discuss every feature (needing some weeks), then test it some months, we won't release Woody before 2003. Gruss/Regards, Eduard. -- Eingedeutschte Fehlermeldungen sind doch etwas schoenes: Kein Weltraum links auf dem Geraet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:31:12PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 05:39:36PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: I have installed many SCSI systems (including the one that I'm using right now) with potato CD #1, which I assume has a similar configuration. Potato CD#1 used the vanilla flavour, Woody CD#1 was going to use the idepci flavour (which doesn't have SCSI support), since Raphael's primary language isn't English and the vanilla flavour doesn't support language chooser. Now we could argue back and forth about this until May trying to convince each other, but that'd be a waste of everyone's time and quite annoying to all involved. Doing the isolinux thing gets rid of this problem for us, and makes CD#1 much more flexible and intuitive to installers, and there're good reasons to expect it to work well. There's not enough time to test it well (and, tbh, woody hasn't been tested anywhere near as well as it should've been in _any_ respects) but even if it *doesn't* work everywhere it's expected to, that's not a huge loss, since we'll still have CD#2-4 bootable with each individual image, and floppy images will also be available. This seems to be a very good choice. Additionally, it's very easy to test: find random systems, reboot them with the small CD Raphael's prepared and check you can get into the installer. You don't need to go all the way through the install, nor worry about damaging your system at all -- as soon as you get to the pretty installer screens, you're done. Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists! I absolutely agree that a choice on CD 1 would be superior, especially since it would make it possible to have the choice of a 2.4 kernel while only using one CD. But I think it would be even better to make a high-quality release release according to aj's tentative schedule, rather than a minimally-tested release (possibly much) later. Worst case, if people do find a bunch of systems where this doesn't work, we revert the change. There's no reason that should delay anything. Cheers, aj, who has no idea why this is on -boot and -devel but not -cd -- Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/ I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred. ``BAM! Science triumphs again!'' -- http://www.angryflower.com/vegeta.gif -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:12:28AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:26:45PM: Do you follow those distributions' user and support mailing lists? I certainly don't, so I've no idea who can or can't install them. What I do Oh, please stop talking about theoretical issues without any real evidence. Eduard, take a pill. In the absence of reliable testing (which we don't have in many areas), many of our issues will only become practical the day after release. Much better to tackle them while they're still theoretical in that case. Cheers, aj -- Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/ I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred. ``BAM! Science triumphs again!'' -- http://www.angryflower.com/vegeta.gif -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Hi Matt, Le Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:45:35AM -0400, Matt Zimmerman écrivait: release is coming soon ... and we need a bit of feedback about a new feature we plan to use on CD1 of Debian woody for i386. On CD *1*? Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core component mere weeks before the scheduled release? There is no way that it could receive sufficient testing in that time. If we must have a new experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set. I usually appreciate your enlightened comments, but here they are not useful at all. This decision has been taken in coordination with Anthony (yes he was reluctant but it's not like I completely ignored what he said ...) and you're speaking of things that you don't know since you haven't followed the complete discussion on debian-cd. Please trust the debian-cd team and spend your time more wisely ... (that said, I see no problem with making the first CD contain fewer packages so that it can fit on a 5cm CD; that sounds useful indeed) This won't happen for the final official images, it's just to ease the test of the new booting scheme (which is already successfully used by other distributions). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://strasbourg.linuxfr.org/~raphael/ Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:15:08AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: #include hallo.h Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:31:12PM: I have installed many SCSI systems (including the one that I'm using right now) with potato CD #1, which I assume has a similar configuration. I've Your assumption is WRONG. The old vanilla Flavor used there had lots of drivers. Idepci does not. In that case, you are making a completely fallacious argument by using idepci as justification for isolinux. That is a completely different decision. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 04:55:03PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Le Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:45:35AM -0400, Matt Zimmerman écrivait: On CD *1*? Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core component mere weeks before the scheduled release? There is no way that it could receive sufficient testing in that time. If we must have a new experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set. I usually appreciate your enlightened comments, but here they are not useful at all. This decision has been taken in coordination with Anthony (yes he was reluctant but it's not like I completely ignored what he said ...) and you're speaking of things that you don't know since you haven't followed the complete discussion on debian-cd. Please trust the debian-cd team and spend your time more wisely ... It's true, in the end this is not my decision, and the final result will (as usual) be determined by consensus. If I am truly alone in my concerns, then my ranting won't matter, but the only way to find out is to make loud noises. I will of course continue to help test the installation process. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:12:28AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: Did YOU help introducing ANY new features in boot-floppies? I18n? Kernel 2.4, other filesystems, RAID support, lots of bugfixes in the existing code, etc. etc.? Either you can continue your mission of distruction, or you stop crying about lost time. You have never helped with my projects, but I still listen when you report bugs or express concerns. This is not too much to ask. If we should work out and discuss every feature (needing some weeks), then test it some months, we won't release Woody before 2003. Good idea. We should definitely stop discussing features before implementing them, and cut back on testing. I'm finished with this argument, and I'm going to go test the isolinux images. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 06:02:28PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of booting the installation system. a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_ mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up. The burden of proof is on you, who want to make a change with such broad effect so late in the release cycle. Well, so far their solution is working out, at least I don't see anyone complaining after the announcements :) /me holds his fingers crossed and goes to find a CD-R -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:12:28AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: Did YOU help introducing ANY new features in boot-floppies? I18n? Kernel 2.4, other filesystems, RAID support, lots of bugfixes in the existing code, etc. etc.? Either you can continue your mission of distruction, or you stop crying about lost time. If we should work out and discuss every feature (needing some weeks), then test it some months, we won't release Woody before 2003. No I didn't. I think this use of isolinux is fantastic. I've been having a gander (unlike some other posters to this thread I suspect) and there is nothing really new here - it really is using just a slightly different syslinux binary and combining the syslinux.cfg's together with access to all the discs in one. I can't see the big deal. What I would provide/recommend is including a smartboot windows and linux binaries - this can write a very simple boot floppy that will boot cdroms on most machines with older non el-torito BIOS's. Thumbs up for Isolinux CD #1. -- Paul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu Apr 11, 2002 at 08:31:55PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists! I just tested it on all the bootable x86 systems in my house: Dell Latitude C800 laptop: Works Dell Webpc thing:Works Toshiba 490CDT Satellite Pro Laptop: Works Compaq Armada 7730MT Laptop: Works Desktop box (VIA KT266A chipset/Athlon): Works I'm pleased to report 100% success at booting using isolinux. -Erik -- Erik B. Andersen http://codepoet-consulting.com/ --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes: Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists! I have a Digital Celebris GL180 that does not appear to work with the isoloader. Having said that, I'd still rather the isoloader was used---this machine is pretty old (nearly 6 years) and it's no big deal to make the boot and root disks and just use the cdrom for packages. For most of the machines I install, I expect the iso loader will be a big help. Mike. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Apr 11, Michael Alan Dorman wrote: Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes: Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists! I have a Digital Celebris GL180 that does not appear to work with the isoloader. Having said that, I'd still rather the isoloader was used---this machine is pretty old (nearly 6 years) and it's no big deal to make the boot and root disks and just use the cdrom for packages. For most of the machines I install, I expect the iso loader will be a big help. Mike: Is this a regression? (i.e. does the machine boot standard El Torito cd images, like potato CD #1?) Chris -- Chris Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.lordsutch.com/chris/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 01:38:14PM -0600, Erik Andersen wrote: On Thu Apr 11, 2002 at 08:31:55PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. ... I just tested it on all the bootable x86 systems in my house: ... Toshiba 490CDT Satellite Pro Laptop: Works That's good news. What was your success booting the Potato CD on this laptop? In my experience, the Toshiba laptops (the 490CDT in particular) would not boot the Potato CD. As far as I'm aware, this was because the boot image on the CD was based on a 2.88MB floppy image, where the Toshiba laptops could only handle a 1.44MB image. I'm impressed to hear Toshiba laptops can boot normally again :) Drew -- PGP public key available at http://people.debian.org/~dparsons/drewskey.txt Fingerprint: A110 EAE1 D7D2 8076 5FE0 EC0A B6CE 7041 6412 4E4A pgpokBhf6F1dz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 11:35:31AM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote: On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 01:38:14PM -0600, Erik Andersen wrote: On Thu Apr 11, 2002 at 08:31:55PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. ... I just tested it on all the bootable x86 systems in my house: ... Toshiba 490CDT Satellite Pro Laptop: Works That's good news. What was your success booting the Potato CD on this laptop? i booted it on my toshiba 330cds laptop,and it worked fine. i test booted into bf24 and idepci. and yes, this model worked with the 2.88 el torito images, too :) -john -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
Hi Raphael! You wrote: Please grab it, burn it, and try to boot on it (you can also install Debian with it if you want :-)). I just tried it, and it seems to work very well. I had no problems booting whatsoever. If you have troubles during the installation process, please report your problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are people working on the dutch translation of the installation? If not, I could do it. -- Kind regards, +---+ | Bas Zoetekouw | Si l'on sait exactement ce | || que l'on va faire, a quoi| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | bon le faire?| |[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Pablo Picasso | +---+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:06:44AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Hello everybody, release is coming soon ... and we need a bit of feedback about a new feature we plan to use on CD1 of Debian woody for i386. On CD *1*? Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core component mere weeks before the scheduled release? There is no way that it could receive sufficient testing in that time. If we must have a new experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set. (that said, I see no problem with making the first CD contain fewer packages so that it can fit on a 5cm CD; that sounds useful indeed) -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: I just tried it, and it seems to work very well. I had no problems booting whatsoever. I did just a quick look (no real install just booted and selected the language) and I really like the i18n stuff!!! Great job! Many thanks! Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:14:36PM +0200, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: If you have troubles during the installation process, please report your problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are people working on the dutch translation of the installation? If not, I could do it. We still don't have anyone to update the Dutch translation of the web pages, which should be much less work than the installation manual... nudge nudge -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
#include hallo.h Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 10:45:35AM: On CD *1*? Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core component mere weeks before the scheduled release? There is no way that it Why not? Weeks != days. could receive sufficient testing in that time. If we must have a new experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set. Why not use _exactly_ this on the first CD, and pure idepci on 5th CD (for the few cases where isolinux may break though I have _never_ heard about problems with isolinux). And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as the only available flavor. Gruss/Regards, Eduard. -- Feinrippträger! Fernlichtabsteller! Falschatmer! Frühblinker! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 08:33:00PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 10:45:35AM: On CD *1*? Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core component mere weeks before the scheduled release? There is no way that it Why not? Weeks != days. 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of booting the installation system. Why not use _exactly_ this on the first CD, and pure idepci on 5th CD (for the few cases where isolinux may break though I have _never_ heard about problems with isolinux). Sure, once it has been proven to work _for Debian_ on a wide variety of systems. It would have been a great idea a couple of months ago. Why did you wait until there was so much pressure to finish the release? And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as the only available flavor. It seems to work for a large number of users, and that is its only job, is it not? -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
#include hallo.h Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 04:45:08PM: Why not? Weeks != days. 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of booting the installation system. a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_ mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up. b) You can insert another CD and boot, if you got problems. I am sure most people will do anyways. Why not use _exactly_ this on the first CD, and pure idepci on 5th CD (for the few cases where isolinux may break though I have _never_ heard about problems with isolinux). Sure, once it has been proven to work _for Debian_ on a wide variety of systems. It would have been a great idea a couple of months ago. Why did you wait until there was so much pressure to finish the release? a) I waited for bf2.4 to get enough testing b) I do not like idepci, which other people want to make default And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as the only available flavor. It seems to work for a large number of users, and that is its only job, is it not? I do not like kernels that cannot be used for anything but installation, and even then not for installation on modern hardware. It is called idepci but it does not support recent IDE hardware. Gruss/Regards, Eduard. -- I think Debian's doing something wrong, `apt-get install pesticide', doesn't seem to remove the bugs on my system! -- Mike Dresser -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 04:45:08PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 08:33:00PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as the only available flavor. It seems to work for a large number of users, and that is its only job, is it not? Well, no. :) idepci is known to fail for people with scsi and new ide hardware, so it's not really the best choice either. There probably is no best choice, but a system with a menu where you can choose a choice is probably better than any arbitrary default. -- Mike Stone -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:23:26PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: #include hallo.h Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 04:45:08PM: 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of booting the installation system. a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_ mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up. The burden of proof is on you, who want to make a change with such broad effect so late in the release cycle. I have never even tried isolinux, while I have used syslinux many times. b) You can insert another CD and boot, if you got problems. I am sure most people will do anyways. Exactly the same argument can be made for putting isolinux on the second CD. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed Apr 10, 2002 at 06:02:28PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:23:26PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: #include hallo.h Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 04:45:08PM: 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of booting the installation system. a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_ mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up. The burden of proof is on you, who want to make a change with such broad effect so late in the release cycle. I have never even tried isolinux, while I have used syslinux many times. Other distros (such as slackware and mandrake) are already using isolinux in their installers. I don't hear too many people complaining that those distro fail to boot from CD... -Erik -- Erik B. Andersen http://codepoet-consulting.com/ --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:07:04PM -0600, Erik Andersen wrote: Other distros (such as slackware and mandrake) are already using isolinux in their installers. I don't hear too many people complaining that those distro fail to boot from CD... Do you follow those distributions' user and support mailing lists? I certainly don't, so I've no idea who can or can't install them. What I do hear quite often is the only thing that would install was Debian [and NetBSD]. A search on lists.debian.org shows: http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200111/msg00016.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00258.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00260.html and nothing else ever. The couple of messages in 200108 are all musing and no code or testing. Last August would have been a good time to start experimenting with this if it was intended for woody. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 05:39:36PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 04:45:08PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: It seems to work for a large number of users, and that is its only job, is it not? Well, no. :) idepci is known to fail for people with scsi and new ide hardware, so it's not really the best choice either. There probably is no best choice, but a system with a menu where you can choose a choice is probably better than any arbitrary default. I have installed many SCSI systems (including the one that I'm using right now) with potato CD #1, which I assume has a similar configuration. I've done the same with several IDE systems, but I'm not in touch with IDE stuff enough to know whether it is considered recent. I absolutely agree that a choice on CD 1 would be superior, especially since it would make it possible to have the choice of a 2.4 kernel while only using one CD. But I think it would be even better to make a high-quality release release according to aj's tentative schedule, rather than a minimally-tested release (possibly much) later. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test this woody cd image
On Apr 10, Matt Zimmerman wrote: A search on lists.debian.org shows: http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200111/msg00016.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00258.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00260.html and nothing else ever. The couple of messages in 200108 are all musing and no code or testing. Last August would have been a good time to start experimenting with this if it was intended for woody. Speaking for myself (and only myself) I didn't realize a multiboot capability would be worthwhile until recently. I've never used a box where the vanilla flavor wouldn't work enough to get Debian running. Frankly, we have done a lot of work to make sure that this solution works for most everyone. It will boot on most recent BIOSes. For those it won't boot on, we've provided /install/boot.bat which uses loadlin to bootstrap the system - something I don't think any other major distro makes available (maybe Slackware does, but I doubt it); this should work on any DOS/Windows up to ME (Real Mode went byebye in XP, IIRC). If those solutions won't work, all four rescue disk images are on the CD-ROM, along with rawrite2.exe, so you can make a floppy from any version of DOS or Windows - even XP - or from any *nix with dd. Or boot from another CD in the set, if your vendor wants to sell them. (Personally I consider CDs 2-n a waste of digital storage media, but that's me.) Or insist your vendor give you boot and rescue floppies. Or use FreeDOS to boot up and use loadlin off the CD. The only case where this will all fail is a lone machine with no OS already with a BIOS that is so broken that it can't boot from a CD-ROM in no-emulation mode, in which case one should bitch at the motherboard vendor - in 2002, there's no excuse for shipping broken El Torito support. The irony is that as a vendor, I don't care what the project decides to do with the code. I'm shipping my CDs with ISOLINUX. If the project wants to go off and Don Quixote towards imaginary windmills because we haven't spent months testing something that's been in production use for years, that's all the better for me, since I'll be shipping better discs than INSERT OFFICIAL CD VENDOR/VELVEETA PUBLISHER HERE. Chris -- Chris Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.lordsutch.com/chris/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
