Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 03:18:35PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi > I'm a student at Kent University Canterbury UK I will be starting > my final year project some time next > year and I am looking to find a project that involves linux development > ideally kernel / module based or a port > of software to a specific platform. I am unsure as to what projects are > about as I have to do a unique project > and not a redevelopment of something that has already been done. Any > ideas. You might want to join the new project of porting Debian to Windows platform ;) -- Eric VAN BUGGENHAUT "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post \_|_/ Andago \/ \/ Av. Santa Engracia, 54 a n d a g o |--E-28010 Madrid - tfno:+34(91)2041100 /\___/\ http://www.andago.com / | \ "Innovando en Internet" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 03:18:35PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi > I'm a student at Kent University Canterbury UK I will be starting > my final year project some time next > year and I am looking to find a project that involves linux development > ideally kernel / module based or a port > of software to a specific platform. I am unsure as to what projects are > about as I have to do a unique project > and not a redevelopment of something that has already been done. Any > ideas. Well, that was a bit apropos of nothing... The most obvious think that jumps to mind in kernel development is to pick a random piece of unsupported hardware, reverse engineer its protocol and write a driver for it. For example, I believe there are quite a few unsupported digital cameras. Or perhaps lego mindstorms (or did someone already write a driver for that?). Use your imagination. Jules
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
Add versioning to debian packet management. Something like: # apt-get install package # # damn it broke my server again!! # apt-get rewind package *t Tomas Pospisek SourcePole - Linux & Open Source Solutions http://sourcepole.ch Elestastrasse 18, 7310 Bad Ragaz, Switzerland Tel: +41 (81) 330 77 11
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On 09/07/2001 09:45:35 AM "T.Pospisek's MailLists" wrote: >> Add versioning to debian packet management. Something like: >> >> # apt-get install package >> # # damn it broke my server again!! >> # apt-get rewind package I'd prefer something "like CVS" so I could roll back to milestones or back to a specific date "apt-get make my Debian system exactly like it was when it passed my benchmark test, several upgrades ago" "apt-get make my Debian system exactly like it was on May 13 2001" "apt-get roll my system back to the CVS tag "potato"" Also, integrate all files tagged as conf-files into CVS optionally/automatically. "apt-get roll my httpd.conf back to last working version" etc. Add comments / CVS tags / CVS userid so you can tell the difference between a change a package upgrade tried to automatically make (and probably screwed up) or a change a sysadmin manually made. And add an easy to use shortcut command to rollback any changes a package tried to make in it's config, like "apt-get rewind conf package". Don't forget the obligatory GUI interface (??) Oh, and use the features of CVS so I can remotely secure CVS into a machine, change stuff, and it'll automatically act based solely on the CVS commit I make, without having to log in. So, via remote CVS I could force an "apt-get install" of any arbitrary package. Integrating CVS into Debian (as a core component, not just a package) would be a long, complex, and rewarding project.
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 10:13:50AM -0500, Vince Mulhollon wrote: > > On 09/07/2001 09:45:35 AM "T.Pospisek's MailLists" wrote: > > >> Add versioning to debian packet management. Something like: > >> > >> # apt-get install package > >> # # damn it broke my server again!! > >> # apt-get rewind package > > I'd prefer something "like CVS" so I could roll back to milestones or back > to a specific date > > "apt-get make my Debian system exactly like it was when it passed my > benchmark test, several upgrades ago" > > "apt-get make my Debian system exactly like it was on May 13 2001" > > "apt-get roll my system back to the CVS tag "potato"" > > Also, integrate all files tagged as conf-files into CVS > optionally/automatically. > > "apt-get roll my httpd.conf back to last working version" etc. > Yes ! Do that ! It's exactly what I dreamed of yesterday. You make snapshots of your system whenever you want then roll back when you need to. -- Eric VAN BUGGENHAUT "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!" --from a /. post \_|_/ Andago \/ \/ Av. Santa Engracia, 54 a n d a g o |--E-28010 Madrid - tfno:+34(91)2041100 /\___/\ http://www.andago.com / | \ "Innovando en Internet" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 04:45:35PM +0200, "T.Pospisek's MailLists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was heard to say: > # apt-get install package > # # damn it broke my server again!! > # apt-get rewind package Aside from the fact that the specific packages may not handle this gracefully, and that you may not be able to get old versions of the package, writing (or modifying) a tool to do this is pretty trivial. Whether it should be integrated into an apt frontend is another question..I could add this to aptitude, but I think it's not very useful there; a command-line utility makes a lot more sense to me. Daniel -- / Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---\ |Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive? | \-Evil Overlord, Inc: planning your future today. http://www.eviloverlord.com-/
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 10:13:50AM -0500, Vince Mulhollon wrote: > Integrating CVS into Debian (as a core component, not just a package) would > be a long, complex, and rewarding project. But futile and misguided. CVS has whole swathes of fundamental flaws, largely historical. Better to integrate with something similar to CVS - there is even a project or two working on better alternatives to CVS already... -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield : :' : | Dept. of Computing, `. `' | Imperial College, `-http://www.debian.org/ | London, UK pgpPhPHcE4j2M.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On 09/07/2001 11:20:42 AM Andrew Suffield wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 10:13:50AM -0500, Vince Mulhollon wrote: >> > Integrating CVS into Debian (as a core component, not just a package) would >> > be a long, complex, and rewarding project. >> >> But futile and misguided. CVS has whole swathes of fundamental flaws, >> largely historical. Better to integrate with something similar to CVS References? Just curious what the huge problems are. It fundamentally seems to work, or at least I've not yet run into any road blocks. I know CVS doesn't do binaries or compressed files very well, but for plain text based config files or lists of installed packages, that's OK. I would imagine the tool would store the state of installed packages in a way very similar yet different from dpkg --get-selections | sort > file and then CVS commit the file. I've been playing with that method in an extremely manual way, but a smoothly integrated command or script would be much less painful to use, and could have cool features added. I haven't run into any inherent CVS related issues while experimenting with this method, and I'm curious if you've had bad experiences trying something similar, etc. Considering that the student wanted a good project, I'd think that integrating this into the greater overall Debian system would be more useful "real world project" with all kinds of legacy issues and social interaction w/ other package developers, than the typical individualistic small system end of year project. I follow up to debian-devel, as several developers use CVS, and if there's some big unpublicized fundamental weakness and flaws in CVS, I'm sure others need to know, so please inform us. Thanks!
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
Vince Mulhollon (2001-09-07 12:21:30 -0500) : > On 09/07/2001 11:20:42 AM Andrew Suffield wrote: > >>> But futile and misguided. CVS has whole swathes of fundamental flaws, >>> largely historical. Better to integrate with something similar to CVS > > References? Just curious what the huge problems are. It fundamentally > seems to work, or at least I've not yet run into any road blocks. On http://subversion.tigris.org/> you can read a list of features that make Subversion better than CVS, which points to weaknesses in CVS: - Directories, renames and meta-data are not really supported in CVS; - Symlinks are not either; - Repeated merges (when you work on branches) are a PITA. These are real-life problems of CVS, not just theoretical weaknesses. One lives with it (I've been doing so for years), but one dreams of a day when they are no more problems. Roland. -- Roland Mas Je suis un anti-virus de signature. Copiez-moi dans la vôtre pour éliminer les virus de signature !
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:21:30 -0500 "Vince Mulhollon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 09/07/2001 11:20:42 AM Andrew Suffield wrote: > > >> On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 10:13:50AM -0500, Vince Mulhollon wrote: > >> > Integrating CVS into Debian (as a core component, not just a package) > would > >> > be a long, complex, and rewarding project. > >> > >> But futile and misguided. CVS has whole swathes of fundamental flaws, > >> largely historical. Better to integrate with something similar to CVS > > References? Just curious what the huge problems are. It fundamentally > seems to work, or at least I've not yet run into any road blocks. > The command line arguments CVS use are truely original, which is a really really bad thing ! :pserver:, :ext: mixed with environment variables crazy... what were they thinking when they came up with that stuff, not simplicity thats for sure. I hate CVS, i thought everyone else did as well and people only used it because of a lack of alternatives. Glenn
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On 09/07/2001 09:21:27 PM Glenn McGrath wrote: >> The command line arguments CVS use are truely original, which is a really >> really bad thing ! >> >> :pserver:, :ext: mixed with environment variables crazy... what were >> they thinking when they came up with that stuff, not simplicity thats for >> sure. Agreed. That was the entire point of the suggested project for that student, encapsulate all the uglyness of CVS into either APT or DPKG or a separate program. Right now I can type something that vaguely resembles line noise into my terminal to do what I'm proposing. The goal of the student's project would be to replace that uglyness with a nice smooth interface thats well integrated with the rest of the Debian system, all well working cooperatively with other developers.
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
Glenn McGrath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I hate CVS, i thought everyone else did as well and people only used it > because of a lack of alternatives. http://subversion.tigris.org -- Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - In a variety of flavors! Silverman's Law: If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 02:56:23PM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: > Glenn McGrath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I hate CVS, i thought everyone else did as well and people only used it > > because of a lack of alternatives. > > http://subversion.tigris.org OT: galeon does not like this website much. (Looks like a cool project though) -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgp6hdjznRIlK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:56:23 -0400 "Alan Shutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Glenn McGrath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I hate CVS, i thought everyone else did as well and people only used it > > because of a lack of alternatives. > > http://subversion.tigris.org > Yes, interesting, i hadnt heard of it before this thread. It looks like a candidate to be packaged as well. Glenn
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
Glenn McGrath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [subversion] > It looks like a candidate to be packaged as well. Maybe not yet, though ISTR there's a Debian Developer who follows subversion. Right now, its under extreme development and just started self-hosting, so people interested in it probably want to keep up-to-date by compiling it locally. -- Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - In a variety of flavors! Oh, Aunty Em, it's so good to be home!
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
> Add versioning to debian packet management. Something like:
>
># apt-get install package
># # damn it broke my server again!!
># apt-get rewind package
IIRC, you can do
# apt-get install package=3.2.0-3
or alternatively
# apt-get install package/{stable,unstable,testing}
RE: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
> I'm a student [...] and I am looking to find a project that > involves linux development ideally kernel / module based or a port > of software to a specific platform. if you're interested in newtork-oriented things, I'm developing here a test suite to torture-test IP routers. it has successfully crashed almost every 2.4 kernel I could try with it, and my TODO list includes the following : - extending the torture-test so it can be fully remote-controlled - extending the torture-test to allow it to test ethernet and/or ATM switches, not only IP routers - extending the torture-test to check RSVP implementations - fix bugs in linux kernel which cause it to crash under overextreme network load (maybe related to routing cache, not sure) I started this as a student project, and I only needed to bench MPLS implementations, but it could easily be extended to bench/test other things. feel free to contact me for more informations. Jerome Petazzoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm a student at Kent University Canterbury UK I will be starting > my final year project some time next > year and I am looking to find a project that involves linux development > ideally kernel / module based or a port > of software to a specific platform. I am unsure as to what projects are > about as I have to do a unique project > and not a redevelopment of something that has already been done. Any > ideas. Currently when logged in to a remote server for a command line session I might type: cp /u\t/lo\t/bi\t/foo /tmp Where '\t' represents a tab character. Now every character is sent to the server separately and encrypted separately when using ssh which multiplies the data transfers. Ideally we could have a terminal type that allows the server to say "local echo all characters, buffer them and flush the buffer on '\n', '\t', (and any other interesting characters)". That would allow the above command to be sent in 4 packets of data instead of 15+! The 3270 emulation does similar things but isn't designed for UNIX use, so it doesn't work for TAB's. I think that developing a suitable new terminal emulation would be an interesting research project, and could lead on to a job with one of the larger companies that are investing in Linux development. -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Sat, Sep 08, 2001 at 06:56:40PM +0200, Russell Coker wrote: > Ideally we could have a terminal type that allows the server to say "local > echo all characters, buffer them and flush the buffer on '\n', '\t', (and any > other interesting characters)". That would allow the above command to be > sent in 4 packets of data instead of 15+! The 3270 emulation does similar > things but isn't designed for UNIX use, so it doesn't work for TAB's. Actually, one good solution is turning on the Nagle algorithm, or rather not using TCP_NODELAY (I don't know if ssh sets it, but I guess it does to improve responsiveness). What you propose will break situations where you have to type one non-interesting key to invoke an action, people wait for it to happen but it won't be sent out because of your proposed terminal type. The only way you could safely do this is if the server side would send cues whether or not to do character/word/line buffering. -- Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Guus Sliepen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> pgpx8RGhY4eXc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 12:11:58PM +0200, Guus Sliepen wrote: > Actually, one good solution is turning on the Nagle algorithm, or rather not > using TCP_NODELAY (I don't know if ssh sets it, but I guess it does to improve > responsiveness). What you propose will break situations where you have to type > one non-interesting key to invoke an action, people wait for it to happen but > it won't be sent out because of your proposed terminal type. The only way you > could safely do this is if the server side would send cues whether or not to > do > character/word/line buffering. This problem was solved for telnet, see RFC 1184. -- Richard Braakman Will write free software for money. See http://www.xs4all.nl/~dark/resume.html
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 15:18:35 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi > I'm a student at Kent University Canterbury UK I will be starting > my final year project some time next > year and I am looking to find a project that involves linux development > ideally kernel / module based or a port > of software to a specific platform. I am unsure as to what projects are > about as I have to do a unique project > and not a redevelopment of something that has already been done. Any > ideas. > > Blake Drayson > Distributed debian mirror.
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 12:11, Guus Sliepen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 08, 2001 at 06:56:40PM +0200, Russell Coker wrote: > > Ideally we could have a terminal type that ALLOWS THE SERVER TO SAY > > "local echo all characters, buffer them and flush the buffer on '\n', > > '\t', (and ANY OTHER INTERESTING CHARACTERS)". That would allow the > > above command to be sent in 4 packets of data instead of 15+! The 3270 > > emulation does similar things but isn't designed for UNIX use, so it > > doesn't work for TAB's. > > Actually, one good solution is turning on the Nagle algorithm, or rather > not using TCP_NODELAY (I don't know if ssh sets it, but I guess it does to > improve responsiveness). What you propose will break situations where you > have to type one non-interesting key to invoke an action, people wait for No, the server just registers that key as a key that will push all the data. It would be more efficient than anything that the Nagle algorithm could produce AND give the best responsiveness. BTW All correctly written terminal programs will push all data out and defeat the Nagle algorithm anyway. > it to happen but it won't be sent out because of your proposed terminal > type. The only way you could safely do this is if the server side would > send cues whether or not to do character/word/line buffering. Of course, as I specified in my original message! -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 01:31:14PM +0200, Russell Coker wrote: > > Actually, one good solution is turning on the Nagle algorithm, or rather > > not using TCP_NODELAY (I don't know if ssh sets it, but I guess it does to > > improve responsiveness). What you propose will break situations where you > > have to type one non-interesting key to invoke an action, people wait for > > No, the server just registers that key as a key that will push all the data. > It would be more efficient than anything that the Nagle algorithm could > produce AND give the best responsiveness. Well, Nagle is very good for fast typers :). > BTW All correctly written terminal programs will push all data out and > defeat the Nagle algorithm anyway. I don't know whether that really is correct behaviour. Depends on your point of view I think. > > it to happen but it won't be sent out because of your proposed terminal > > type. The only way you could safely do this is if the server side would > > send cues whether or not to do character/word/line buffering. > > Of course, as I specified in my original message! After rereading, I noticed I overlooked "allows the _server_ to say", you are right. -- Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Guus Sliepen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> pgp7cXFdkKGtj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:36, Guus Sliepen wrote: > On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 01:31:14PM +0200, Russell Coker wrote: > > > Actually, one good solution is turning on the Nagle algorithm, or > > > rather not using TCP_NODELAY (I don't know if ssh sets it, but I guess > > > it does to improve responsiveness). What you propose will break > > > situations where you have to type one non-interesting key to invoke an > > > action, people wait for > > > > No, the server just registers that key as a key that will push all the > > data. It would be more efficient than anything that the Nagle algorithm > > could produce AND give the best responsiveness. > > Well, Nagle is very good for fast typers :). > > > BTW All correctly written terminal programs will push all data out and > > defeat the Nagle algorithm anyway. > > I don't know whether that really is correct behaviour. Depends on your > point of view I think. Doesn't Nagle typically involve delays of >100ms? >100ms extra delay for a serial link in unacceptable for interactive use, so every key press must be pushed. -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:21:30 -0500, "Vince Mulhollon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >References? Just curious what the huge problems are. It fundamentally >seems to work, or at least I've not yet run into any road blocks. - symlinks - file owners - file modes These three are show stoppers for the most-wanted project of entering /etc into CVS. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Karlsruhe, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15 Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29
