Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
Scripsit Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 17 May 2006, Henning Makholm wrote: How does sending directly to from reportbug to an ISP's smarthost validate the user's email address better than sending directly from reportbug to a HTTP POST somewhere? I'm talking about an HTTP access method in general; if it were to be done, I'd expect that it validate the users email address before actually forwarding bug reports from the user. Why don't you have the same expectation about SMTP access methods? It is not necessary that there is anywhere any HTML form that refers to the posting URL; only reportbug would need to know it. Except for the fact that anyone can create a page which posts to that url. ... with a big large text box in which a user is supposed to manually format some text that can be parsed properly by the unknown backend script? If anybody _really_ wanted to fake a bug report with a wrong user, it is much simpler to use an off-the-shelf MUA than to try to reverse-engineer the data format used by a the private reportbug HTTP application. -- Henning Makholm Det er trolddom og terror og jeg får en værre ballade når jeg kommer hjem! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 00:24 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 08:44 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: On the home desktop reportbug uses Python's smtp library to send email directly to the ISP's smtp server. And that's a good thing, because, for a long time, reportbug did not have that feature, and people who don't know how to configure MTAs were not able to send bug reports. reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server, since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the default now, but it should be the default.] bugs.d.o is the *destination*, not the journey. Isn't the default that reprotbug asks on the first run whether to use the local fetchmail / ISPs smpt or send to bugs.d.o now? OK, I'm confused. Isn't the question How does the report gets from the computer to bugs.d.o?? sendmail or smtp library, right? If you run reportbug without arguments it asks you questions on the first run: | Do you have a mail transport agent (MTA) like Exim, Postfix or SSMTP | configured on this computer? [Y|n|q|?]? n | Please enter the name of your SMTP host. Usually it's called something like | mail.example.org or smtp.example.org. Just press ENTER if you don't have | one or don't know. | which results in smtphost bugs.debian.org in the conffile. Maybe the default to the MTA question could be N instead. When I first installed rb, it failed to work, because it wanted to use sendmail, and the only way my PC sent mail to the outside world was using my MUA pointing to smtp.myisp.net (because exim was set up for local delivery only). Later on, I tried again, and found that they had added (or made it more clear in reportbug --configure) the ability to use the user's ISP to transport the email. Yes, that is a new feature. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 10:41 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 00:24 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 08:44 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Tue, 16 May 2006, Ron Johnson wrote:
On the home desktop reportbug uses Python's smtp library to send
email directly to the ISP's smtp server. And that's a good thing,
because, for a long time, reportbug did not have that feature, and
people who don't know how to configure MTAs were not able to send
bug reports.
reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup
should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server,
since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the
default now, but it should be the default.]
bugs.d.o is the *destination*, not the journey.
Isn't the default that reprotbug asks on the first run whether to use
the local fetchmail / ISPs smpt or send to bugs.d.o now?
OK, I'm confused.
Isn't the question How does the report gets from the computer
to bugs.d.o??
sendmail or smtp library, right?
If you run reportbug without arguments it asks you questions on the
first run:
| Do you have a mail transport agent (MTA) like Exim, Postfix or SSMTP
| configured on this computer? [Y|n|q|?]? n
| Please enter the name of your SMTP host. Usually it's called something like
| mail.example.org or smtp.example.org. Just press ENTER if you don't have
| one or don't know.
|
which results in smtphost bugs.debian.org in the conffile. Maybe the
default to the MTA question could be N instead.
Interesting. b.d.o doesn't seem to be answering on port 25 though.
I ran this tiny python script and it just sits there:
import smtplib
server = smtplib.SMTP('bugs.debian.org')
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in ?
File /usr/lib/python2.3/smtplib.py, line 240, in __init__
(code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
File /usr/lib/python2.3/smtplib.py, line 293, in connect
self.sock.connect(sa)
File string, line 1, in connect
KeyboardInterrupt
When I first installed rb, it failed to work, because it wanted
to use sendmail, and the only way my PC sent mail to the outside
world was using my MUA pointing to smtp.myisp.net (because exim
was set up for local delivery only).
Later on, I tried again, and found that they had added (or made
it more clear in reportbug --configure) the ability to use the
user's ISP to transport the email.
Yes, that is a new feature.
And a darned useful one at that...
--
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA
The mass of ignorant Negroes still breed carelessly and
disastrously, so that the increase among Negroes, even more than
the increase among whites, is from that portion of the population
least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear their children
properly.
W.E.B. DuBois (co-founder of the NAACP), 1932
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Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
Scripsit Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] What about modifying it to work through something like an http POST? I'm personally not too terribly interested in implementing an HTTP access method for the BTS, because it makes it more easy for bug submissions to be sent from people who can not be accessed via e-mail. How does sending directly to from reportbug to an ISP's smarthost validate the user's email address better than sending directly from reportbug to a HTTP POST somewhere? It is not necessary that there is anywhere any HTML form that refers to the posting URL; only reportbug would need to know it. -- Henning Makholm This imposes the restriction on any procedure statement that the kind and type of each actual parameter be compatible with the kind and type of the corresponding formal parameter. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Wed, 17 May 2006 10:44:19 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. b.d.o doesn't seem to be answering on port 25 though. Doesn't your provider block port 25? $ telnet bugs.debian.org 25 Trying 140.211.166.43... Connected to bugs.debian.org. Escape character is '^]'. 220 spohr.debian.org ESMTP Exim 4.50 Wed, 17 May 2006 13:45:34 -0700 EHLO me 250-spohr.debian.org Hello nat-10.jups.junix.cz [86.49.49.74] 250-SIZE 62914560 250-PIPELINING 250 HELP QUIT 221 spohr.debian.org closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 22:47 +0200, Michal Čihař wrote: On Wed, 17 May 2006 10:44:19 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. b.d.o doesn't seem to be answering on port 25 though. Doesn't your provider block port 25? $ telnet bugs.debian.org 25 Trying 140.211.166.43... Connected to bugs.debian.org. Escape character is '^]'. 220 spohr.debian.org ESMTP Exim 4.50 Wed, 17 May 2006 13:45:34 -0700 EHLO me 250-spohr.debian.org Hello nat-10.jups.junix.cz [86.49.49.74] 250-SIZE 62914560 250-PIPELINING 250 HELP QUIT 221 spohr.debian.org closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. It blocks *incoming* port 25 traffic for well understood reasons. I never knew, though that it also blocks all *outgoing* smtp traffic except to it's own servers. Maybe to Winbots from emailing files back home? $ telnet bugs.debian.org 25 Trying 140.211.166.43... $ telnet smtp.east.cox.net 25 Trying 68.1.17.4... Connected to smtp.east.cox.net. Escape character is '^]'. 220 eastrmmtao05.cox.net ESMTP server (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) ready Wed, 17 May 2006 19:24:46 -0400 EHLO me 250-eastrmmtao05.cox.net 250-HELP 250-XREMOTEQUEUE 250-ETRN 250-PIPELINING 250-DSN 250-8BITMIME 250 SIZE 10485760 HELP 214-This SMTP server is a part of the InterMail E-mail system. For 214- information about InterMail, please see http://www.openwave.com 214- 214- Supported commands: 214- 214-EHLO HELO MAIL RCPT DATA 214-VRFY RSET NOOP QUIT 214- 214- SMTP Extensions supported through EHLO: 214- 214-EXPN HELP SIZE 214- 214- For more information about a listed topic, use HELP topic 214 Please report mail-related problems to Postmaster at this site. QUIT 221 eastrmmtao05.cox.net ESMTP server closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA marauders in radiation poluted area are not just a regular marauders, they don't steal stuff for themselves. There were cases of radiactive tv sets and other stuff being sold on city second hand markets and then police shot 7 or 8 of them and it helped http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/page4.html
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Wed, 17 May 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: It blocks *incoming* port 25 traffic for well understood reasons. Yes, purely commercial reasons. I never knew, though that it also blocks all *outgoing* smtp traffic except to it's own servers. Maybe to Winbots from emailing files back home? Yes, to avoid spam-bots, spam mailers, and smtp-client-enabled viruses. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Wed, 17 May 2006, Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] What about modifying it to work through something like an http POST? I'm personally not too terribly interested in implementing an HTTP access method for the BTS, because it makes it more easy for bug submissions to be sent from people who can not be accessed via e-mail. How does sending directly to from reportbug to an ISP's smarthost validate the user's email address better than sending directly from reportbug to a HTTP POST somewhere? I'm talking about an HTTP access method in general; if it were to be done, I'd expect that it validate the users email address before actually forwarding bug reports from the user. reportbug is somewhat of a special case because it actually provides useful information along with the bug report; non-reachable submitters are slightly less anoying than in other cases. It is not necessary that there is anywhere any HTML form that refers to the posting URL; only reportbug would need to know it. Except for the fact that anyone can create a page which posts to that url. In any case, I'm not stoping anyone else from implementing it; I've just explained why I'm not going to implement it. Don Armstrong -- Unix, MS-DOS, and Windows NT (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly). -- Matt Welsh http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
Don Armstrong wrote: reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server, since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the default now, but it should be the default.] Except that many ISPs now block outbound port 25 (at least on consumer-level service), except for what is relayed through their mail servers. I guess it is a bit of a catch-22. What about modifying it to work through something like an http POST? -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On May 16, Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that many ISPs now block outbound port 25 (at least on consumer-level service), except for what is relayed through their mail servers. Agreed. It's not reasonable to expect that port 25 connections from large consumer ISPs will work. reportbug should use port 587 instead (see RFC2476 for details). -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 13:20 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: Don Armstrong wrote: reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server, since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the default now, but it should be the default.] Except that many ISPs now block outbound port 25 (at least on consumer-level service), except for what is relayed through their mail servers. I guess it is a bit of a catch-22. What about modifying it to work through something like an http POST? That's what popcon does, I think. Remember, though, that reportbug *works*, simply and easily, be- cause it uses the $LANGUAGE smtp library. Why change what works? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time. Bertrand Meyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 08:44 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: On the home desktop reportbug uses Python's smtp library to send email directly to the ISP's smtp server. And that's a good thing, because, for a long time, reportbug did not have that feature, and people who don't know how to configure MTAs were not able to send bug reports. reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server, since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the default now, but it should be the default.] bugs.d.o is the *destination*, not the journey. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA The First Amendment protects speech from being censored by the government; it does not regulate what private parties (such as most employers) do. http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Anonymity/blog-anonymously.php -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 08:44 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: On the home desktop reportbug uses Python's smtp library to send email directly to the ISP's smtp server. And that's a good thing, because, for a long time, reportbug did not have that feature, and people who don't know how to configure MTAs were not able to send bug reports. reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server, since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the default now, but it should be the default.] bugs.d.o is the *destination*, not the journey. Isn't the default that reprotbug asks on the first run whether to use the local fetchmail / ISPs smpt or send to bugs.d.o now? What do you want? Skip the question and default to bugs.d.o? MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Tue, 16 May 2006, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: Don Armstrong wrote: reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server, since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the default now, but it should be the default.] Except that many ISPs now block outbound port 25 (at least on consumer-level service), except for what is relayed through their mail servers. There's not much that can be done about that besides using 587 or similar. In such a case the user should be prompted for an smtp server which actually works instead of the default. [Indeed, that's what should happen when any smtp server is unreachable.] bugs.debian.org is the only sensible default. Anything else requires user configuration. What about modifying it to work through something like an http POST? I'm personally not too terribly interested in implementing an HTTP access method for the BTS, because it makes it more easy for bug submissions to be sent from people who can not be accessed via e-mail. I don't have a problem with someone else implementing such a service that actually verifies the e-mail address of people, though. [You don't need anything from me at all to do that.] Don Armstrong -- Il semble que la perfection soit atteinte non quand il n'y a plus rien a ajouter, mais quand il n'y a plus rien a retrancher. (Perfection is apparently not achieved when nothing more can be added, but when nothing else can be removed.) -- Antoine de Saint-Exupe'ry, Terres des Hommes http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reportbug defaults [Re: Bug#367200: ITP: libemail-send-perl -- Simply Sending Email]
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 00:24 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 08:44 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: On the home desktop reportbug uses Python's smtp library to send email directly to the ISP's smtp server. And that's a good thing, because, for a long time, reportbug did not have that feature, and people who don't know how to configure MTAs were not able to send bug reports. reportbug sends mail to wherever it is configured; the default setup should be to send mail to bugs.debian.org, not the ISP's smtp server, since that can't be known in advance. [I don't know if this is the default now, but it should be the default.] bugs.d.o is the *destination*, not the journey. Isn't the default that reprotbug asks on the first run whether to use the local fetchmail / ISPs smpt or send to bugs.d.o now? OK, I'm confused. Isn't the question How does the report gets from the computer to bugs.d.o?? sendmail or smtp library, right? When I first installed rb, it failed to work, because it wanted to use sendmail, and the only way my PC sent mail to the outside world was using my MUA pointing to smtp.myisp.net (because exim was set up for local delivery only). Later on, I tried again, and found that they had added (or made it more clear in reportbug --configure) the ability to use the user's ISP to transport the email. What do you want? Skip the question and default to bugs.d.o? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA Peace has its victories no less than war, but it doesn't have as many monuments to unveil. Kin Hubbard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
