Re: Unix Time Zone Format

2011-10-10 Thread John D. Hendrickson and Sara Darnell 

Just ignore them.  Hot air.

Microsoft et al. release stolen work and privatizes gov. projects.  Can they prosecute you?  I doubt 
it.  They probably owe you.


If it works don't fix it, ignore mere talk about wishes of delay of linux.  If anything they're 
hoping you'll make new work because they need to steal it to get out of their own patent problems 
capice?  That'd be my guess.



And Have Fun!


Russ Allbery wrote:

Weaver  writes:


This Intellectual property rubbish is beginning to make me angry.  What
now?  Are we expected, each and everyone of us, supposed to pay a
stipend to some johnny-come-lately opportunist?



http://blog.joda.org/2011/10/today-time-zone-database-was-closed.html


It's already back up and running at another site and a new release is
being planned.  I suspect the lawsuit will blow over in short order.  It's
obviously groundless and there are tons of expert witnesses who can
testify to that, but ado is a conservative sort of guy and will be
careful.




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Re: Unix Time Zone Format

2011-10-09 Thread Russ Allbery 
unruh  writes:
> On 2011-10-07, Russ Allbery  wrote:

>> All you're going to accomplish at this point by making a lot of noise
>> is to make life even more difficult for ado, so please don't.  Please
>> remember that he was using a server at his job for this (a US
>> government server, no less), so he's going to be maximally careful
>> about not turning this into a problem for his employers.

> Have no idea why his employer should not be defending him.

Among many other things, there's nothing to defend yet.  No one has done
anything other than file a lawsuit.

If you don't understand why the US government wouldn't be jumping in
(publicly, no less, appears to be your expectation!) in a private civil
lawsuit that's only just been filed, and for which no facts are yet
available, then *please* just stay out of it.  Being super-confrontational
at this stage of things with people who pretty clearly don't understand
the situation yet is just going to make people dig in and make the whole
thing take longer to make go away.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Unix Time Zone Format

2011-10-09 Thread unruh 
On 2011-10-07, Russ Allbery  wrote:
> Ben Finney  writes:
>
>> That will be good, but we still need to make a lot of noise about this.
>> It's ludicrous that any idiot with a lawyer can bring down a resource
>> like the site hosting Olsen timezone data, even temporarily.
>
> ado took the site down voluntarily (almost certainly), so there's really
> nothing to protest other than the concept of damages for ongoing
> infringment after notification, about which making a lot of noise will do
> precisely zero.  It looks like the tz database was an innocent bystander
> in a legal fight between two other companies and the whole thing will blow
> over once that's sorted out and the actual nature of the tz database was
> established.

Who are the two companies? However, I do disagree that there is no point
in making a show. Those companies need to realise that there are
consequences to their involving others in their battles. It is like a
war in which civilians get killed-- it is less likely to happen if
people know it is happening. 

>
> All you're going to accomplish at this point by making a lot of noise is
> to make life even more difficult for ado, so please don't.  Please
> remember that he was using a server at his job for this (a US government
> server, no less), so he's going to be maximally careful about not turning
> this into a problem for his employers.

Have no idea why his employer should not be defending him.

>
> Once all the details are out and the case is either resolved or there's
> some clear idea how we can help is the time to make noise if it's
> appropriate then.  Right now, lawyers from the IETF are already involved
> and the EFF has already been notified, and those of us who are
> well-meaning but don't know how to properly handle the specific legal
> situation should really just be quiet and let the lawyers handle it.

This is more than just a legal issue. That database is too important to
simply be left for the two unkown dissputants to settle between them. I
think they need to know that that is the case. 

>
> -- 
> Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   
>
>


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Re: Unix Time Zone Format

2011-10-07 Thread Russ Allbery 
Ben Finney  writes:

> That will be good, but we still need to make a lot of noise about this.
> It's ludicrous that any idiot with a lawyer can bring down a resource
> like the site hosting Olsen timezone data, even temporarily.

ado took the site down voluntarily (almost certainly), so there's really
nothing to protest other than the concept of damages for ongoing
infringment after notification, about which making a lot of noise will do
precisely zero.  It looks like the tz database was an innocent bystander
in a legal fight between two other companies and the whole thing will blow
over once that's sorted out and the actual nature of the tz database was
established.

All you're going to accomplish at this point by making a lot of noise is
to make life even more difficult for ado, so please don't.  Please
remember that he was using a server at his job for this (a US government
server, no less), so he's going to be maximally careful about not turning
this into a problem for his employers.

Once all the details are out and the case is either resolved or there's
some clear idea how we can help is the time to make noise if it's
appropriate then.  Right now, lawyers from the IETF are already involved
and the EFF has already been notified, and those of us who are
well-meaning but don't know how to properly handle the specific legal
situation should really just be quiet and let the lawyers handle it.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Unix Time Zone Format

2011-10-07 Thread Ben Finney 
Russ Allbery  writes:

> Weaver  writes:
>
> > This Intellectual property rubbish is beginning to make me angry.  What
> > now?  Are we expected, each and everyone of us, supposed to pay a
> > stipend to some johnny-come-lately opportunist?
>
> > http://blog.joda.org/2011/10/today-time-zone-database-was-closed.html
>
> It's already back up and running at another site and a new release is
> being planned.  I suspect the lawsuit will blow over in short order.

That will be good, but we still need to make a lot of noise about this.
It's ludicrous that any idiot with a lawyer can bring down a resource
like the site hosting Olsen timezone data, even temporarily.

-- 
 \“All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental.” |
  `\   —_Timequake_, Kurt Vonnegut |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: Unix Time Zone Format

2011-10-07 Thread Russ Allbery 
Weaver  writes:

> This Intellectual property rubbish is beginning to make me angry.  What
> now?  Are we expected, each and everyone of us, supposed to pay a
> stipend to some johnny-come-lately opportunist?

> http://blog.joda.org/2011/10/today-time-zone-database-was-closed.html

It's already back up and running at another site and a new release is
being planned.  I suspect the lawsuit will blow over in short order.  It's
obviously groundless and there are tons of expert witnesses who can
testify to that, but ado is a conservative sort of guy and will be
careful.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Unix Time Zone Format

2011-10-07 Thread Weaver 
This Intellectual property rubbish is beginning to make me angry.
What now?
Are we expected, each and everyone of us, supposed to pay a stipend to
some johnny-come-lately opportunist?

http://blog.joda.org/2011/10/today-time-zone-database-was-closed.html

Regards,

Weaver.


-- 
"In a world without walls and fences, 
what need have we for Windows or Gates?"
-Anon.


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