Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Friday 25 June 2004 10:43 am, Gavin Hamill wrote: This is a complete misnomer... It does this because kvim is part of the kdeaddons metapackage, and kdeaddons is part of the kde metapackage. Rest assured your KDE installation is safe. Oh, I gotcha. I wasn't thinking that far ahead, really. I expected removing the metapackage would remove everything the metapackage installed, but I suppose had that been the case it would have reported a laundry list of affected packages. -- Michael McIntyre Silvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Re: How to get rid of KVim
El Viernes, 25 de Junio de 2004 22:40, Matías Costa escribió: Yes, BUT, it will interfere with future upgrades that add new components (this time that we might want) to KDE. If you do not have the metapackage they will not get included automatically. Anything is perfect :( Well, debian news says what is new in the repository. There is a better solution. Note that if you like the 'kde' metapackage installed, is because probably you think that the debian/kde guys know what they are doing, and you want all official KDE modules. But then you discover that don't like kvim, and you let it installed, because you want new packages added in 'kde' metapackage upgrades. However, the KDE modules doesn't change very quickly, and probably (it's just my opinion) the only change that will affect the kde metapackage after 3.3, will be changing quanta for kwebdev, and maybe adding kdebindings. Then, my suggestion is to forget the metapackages. Install what you like (or install the metapackage, and remove what you dislike). If you want to keep what packages are new when you update the sources, you can easily see that with aptitude. -- Alex (a.k.a. suy) - GPG ID 0x0B8B0BC2 http://darkshines.net/ - Jabber ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get rid of KVim
However, the KDE modules doesn't change very quickly, and probably (it's just my opinion) the only change that will affect the kde metapackage after 3.3, will be changing quanta for kwebdev, and maybe adding kdebindings. FWIW there is already a kdewebdev metapackage, so you can install that now if you wish. Hmm, I should ask calc to fix this in the kde metapackage. b.
Re: CC and Code of Conduct (was: How to get rid of KVim)
On Fri, Jun 25, 2004 at 07:57:09AM +1000, Ben Burton wrote: But I tell you what, here's a deal. You thank me for the immense number of hours that I have spent packaging KDE for you for free over the last few years, and I'll apologise for that CC. Ben. Hey Ben, you didn't CC me, but I want to thank you any way for the great work. My gratitude goes towards you. AR
Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Wednesday 23 June 2004 11:27 am, Alexander Nordström wrote: On Wednesday, 23 Jun 2004 21:14, David Goodenough wrote: It seems to be a pre-req for any KDE install, try to remove it (at least under Debian) and most of KDE seems to want to go away. It is not. I wonder where the insane dependencies are. IIRC, I installed the kde metapackage, which pulled in kvim and the kitchen sink. I can't remove kvim without some trouble. -apt-get remove kvim Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: kde kdeaddons kvim vimpart 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 1 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. ... -apt-get remove vimpart Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: kde kdeaddons vimpart 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 3 to remove and 1 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. I did get rid of it once through some trickery, but it came back as a side effect of some subsequent action (probably an update), and I decided to leave it alone. I don't really remember all of this very clearly, but I seem to recall I had to hand edit one of apt's files in var to get rid of this thing without taking all of KDE with it. It got quite ugly. -- Michael McIntyre Silvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:32:25 -0400 Silvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: S On Wednesday 23 June 2004 11:27 am, Alexander Nordström wrote: S On Wednesday, 23 Jun 2004 21:14, David Goodenough wrote: S It seems to be a pre-req for any KDE install, try to remove it S (at least under Debian) and most of KDE seems to want to go away. S S It is not. S S I wonder where the insane dependencies are. IIRC, I installed the S kde metapackage, which pulled in kvim and the kitchen sink. I S can't remove kvim without some trouble. S S -apt-get remove kvim S Reading Package Lists... Done S Building Dependency Tree... Done S The following packages will be REMOVED: S kde kdeaddons kvim vimpart S 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 1 not upgraded. S Need to get 0B of archives. S ... S S -apt-get remove vimpart S Reading Package Lists... Done S Building Dependency Tree... Done S The following packages will be REMOVED: S kde kdeaddons vimpart S 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 3 to remove and 1 not upgraded. S Need to get 0B of archives. S S S I did get rid of it once through some trickery, but it came back as a S side effect of some subsequent action (probably an update), and I S decided to leave it alone. S S I don't really remember all of this very clearly, but I seem to S recall I had to hand edit one of apt's files in var to get rid of S this thing without taking all of KDE with it. It got quite ugly. S Remember that KDE and KDEADDONS are not real packages in that they don't contain any programs they are just containers that install a particular list of KDE packages one of which is kvim. Therefore if you want all of KDE except kvim then you have 2 options (1) Install all the component parts manually or (2) install KDE and let it drag everything in and then remove kvim (which will remove the kde package but not all the real bits of KDE) James P.S. To really remove KDE you need to remove kdelibs* -- ++---+-+ | James Tappin | School of Physics Astronomy | O__| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | University of Birmingham | -- \/` | | Ph: 0121-414-6462. Fax: 0121-414-3722 | | ++-+
Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Friday 25 June 2004 15:32, Silvan wrote: -apt-get remove kvim Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: kde kdeaddons kvim vimpart 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 1 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. ... This is a complete misnomer... Removing 'kvim' will NOT remove the entirety of the K Desktop Environment. It will remove the 10k Debian 'metapackage' called 'kde' as well as the one called 'kdeaddons'. It does this because kvim is part of the kdeaddons metapackage, and kdeaddons is part of the kde metapackage. Rest assured your KDE installation is safe. Cheers, Gavin.
Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Friday 25 June 2004 15:43, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Friday 25 June 2004 15:32, Silvan wrote: -apt-get remove kvim Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: kde kdeaddons kvim vimpart 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 1 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. ... This is a complete misnomer... Removing 'kvim' will NOT remove the entirety of the K Desktop Environment. It will remove the 10k Debian 'metapackage' called 'kde' as well as the one called 'kdeaddons'. It does this because kvim is part of the kdeaddons metapackage, and kdeaddons is part of the kde metapackage. Rest assured your KDE installation is safe. Cheers, Gavin. Yes, BUT, it will interfere with future upgrades that add new components (this time that we might want) to KDE. If you do not have the metapackage they will not get included automatically. David
Re: How to get rid of KVim
Yes, BUT, it will interfere with future upgrades that add new components (this time that we might want) to KDE. If you do not have the metapackage they will not get included automatically. Anything is perfect :( Well, debian news says what is new in the repository.
Re: How to get rid of KVim
Please do *not* CC people off-list unless they specifically request it. I am obviously subscribed to the list, so there is absolutely no need for it. Furthermore, I munge my address on the list so as to avoid it being stored in the archives and getting picked up by spammers' address harvesters. By deliberately de-munging it and including it in your response, you have ensured it gets stored on the list. On Thursday, 24 Jun 2004 05:41, Ben Burton wrote: As much as I like vi, I might have to agree with that. The inclusion of kvim and vimpart in popular meta packages could be questioned, at least if it is greedy about file associations. FWIW, I have kvim and vimpart installed and they have never offered themselves as defaults for anything. I'm not sure what chain of events might have led to kvim becoming the default editor on this particular system. That was my suspicion too, but I wasn't sure my memory was correct. I seem to recall having to actually make kvim the default editor. I just tried installing vimpart yesterday, and it did not get chosen by default, needs to be configured before it will try to launch, and currently has a bug filed against it for not to be embedding correctly, which seems to affect me. -- Alex Nordstrom
Re: How to get rid of KVim
[ snipped 7 lines of anger ] Well if you're going to be that touchy about it then you might at least consider setting an appropriate Mail-Followup-To. But then it's always more fun to complain than to try to prevent the problem, isn't it? b.
CC and Code of Conduct (was: How to get rid of KVim)
On Thursday, 24 Jun 2004 13:16, Ben Burton wrote: Well if you're going to be that touchy about it then you might at least consider setting an appropriate Mail-Followup-To. But then it's always more fun to complain than to try to prevent the problem, isn't it? I naïvely thought that an invalid from-address and the fact that I do not ask to receive CCs would stop people from doing it accidentally or go through the effort to do it deliberately, especially considering what http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct tells you. Silly me. -- Alex Nordstrom http://lx.n3.net/
Re: CC and Code of Conduct (was: How to get rid of KVim)
I naïvely thought that an invalid from-address and the fact that I do not ask to receive CCs would stop people from doing it accidentally or go through the effort to do it deliberately, especially considering what http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct tells you. Silly me. OTOH -- if relying on people to abide by list policy is the cornerstone of your anti-spam policy, I suggest you look for something a little more robust. I'm sure for a users' list such as debian-kde, many participants won't have even read it. And a NOSPAM-munged From: address isn't the best strategy either, since such addresses are expliclty designed so that humans *can* accurately reply to them whilst machines can't (though of course machines probably can these days as well, but that's another matter). In particular, if not being CCed is such an absolutely critical matter for you, it's possibly worth a one-line Do not CC me on list replies! in your .sig, just to hammer the point home. But I tell you what, here's a deal. You thank me for the immense number of hours that I have spent packaging KDE for you for free over the last few years, and I'll apologise for that CC. Ben.
Re: CC and Code of Conduct (was: How to get rid of KVim)
On Friday, 25 Jun 2004 05:57, Ben Burton wrote: But I tell you what, here's a deal. You thank me for the immense number of hours that I have spent packaging KDE for you for free over the last few years, and I'll apologise for that CC. Thank you! It really is much appreciated. -- Alex Nordstrom http://lx.n3.net/
Re: CC and Code of Conduct (was: How to get rid of KVim)
Thank you! It really is much appreciated. And my apologies for the unwarranted CC. :) b.
How to get rid of KVim
Much as I have tried, I can not come to terms with KVim. If I have a plain text file I want KWrite or Kate. I am a programmer, but have never used Vim, and at least I recognise Vim and understand that it has its uses and that many programmers live by it. But I have also had comments from non-programmers asking what this KVim is, why is it so different from all the other KDE editors (the menu entries with the :commands for a start) and how do they get rid of it. It seems to be a pre-req for any KDE install, try to remove it (at least under Debian) and most of KDE seems to want to go away. Why was KVim added as the default editor (at least when you open files with Konqueror) when we have so many other good editors? I know I can go through all the associations in Konqueror and remove KVim, but I want to do it automatically so that my users do not keep on having to replicate this action. David
Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Wednesday, 23 Jun 2004 21:14, David Goodenough wrote: It seems to be a pre-req for any KDE install, try to remove it (at least under Debian) and most of KDE seems to want to go away. It is not. # apt-get remove kvim Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: kvim 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 1892kB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n Abort. Why was KVim added as the default editor (at least when you open files with Konqueror) when we have so many other good editors? Most likely because vimpart is installed. From apt-cache show vimpart: Description: embedded Vim text editor component for KDE This package allows the text editor Vim to be embedded into a number of different KDE applications. It does this by encapsulating Vim within a KPart (an embedded KDE component). . Applications that can make use of the Vim part include KDevelop, Konqueror and KWrite. . Note that this component requires a graphical version of Vim (such as KVim or GVim) to be installed separately. The Vim component may also need to be configured before use - this can be done in the KDE Components section of the KDE Control Centre. . This package is part of the KDE add-ons module. (end) It would seem to be a reasonable assumption that if one has installed vimpart, one wants to use it rather than the default Embedded Advanced Text Editor. Naturally, this is still configurable from the Control Centre-KDE Components-Component Chooser-Embedded text editor. I know I can go through all the associations in Konqueror and remove KVim, but I want to do it automatically so that my users do not keep on having to replicate this action. My guess is that the reason programs would be removed along with kvim is that those programs have been installed through metapackages such as kde-extras, kdeaddons, and kdekitchensink. If you desperately need the 1.8 MiB, the individual packages of those metapackages do not require kvim or vimpart and can be installed individually. Simply choosing another editor component would seem easier, though. -- Alex Nordstrom
Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Wednesday 23 June 2004 16:27, Alexander Nordström wrote: On Wednesday, 23 Jun 2004 21:14, David Goodenough wrote: It seems to be a pre-req for any KDE install, try to remove it (at least under Debian) and most of KDE seems to want to go away. It is not. # apt-get remove kvim Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: kvim 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 1892kB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n Abort. Why was KVim added as the default editor (at least when you open files with Konqueror) when we have so many other good editors? Most likely because vimpart is installed. From apt-cache show vimpart: Description: embedded Vim text editor component for KDE This package allows the text editor Vim to be embedded into a number of different KDE applications. It does this by encapsulating Vim within a KPart (an embedded KDE component). . Applications that can make use of the Vim part include KDevelop, Konqueror and KWrite. . Note that this component requires a graphical version of Vim (such as KVim or GVim) to be installed separately. The Vim component may also need to be configured before use - this can be done in the KDE Components section of the KDE Control Centre. . This package is part of the KDE add-ons module. (end) It would seem to be a reasonable assumption that if one has installed vimpart, one wants to use it rather than the default Embedded Advanced Text Editor. Naturally, this is still configurable from the Control Centre-KDE Components-Component Chooser-Embedded text editor. I know I can go through all the associations in Konqueror and remove KVim, but I want to do it automatically so that my users do not keep on having to replicate this action. My guess is that the reason programs would be removed along with kvim is that those programs have been installed through metapackages such as kde-extras, kdeaddons, and kdekitchensink. If you desperately need the 1.8 MiB, the individual packages of those metapackages do not require kvim or vimpart and can be installed individually. Simply choosing another editor component would seem easier, though. -- Alex Nordstrom I looked at the Control Centre, and the Embedded text editor was already set to the Embedded Advanced Text editor, rather than KVim. I really do not care whether Vim and its friends are installed, what I mind about is what the user sees and how to make sure that it is not Vim. I do not understand why it was thought that Vim would be a good idea for ordinary end users. David
Re: How to get rid of KVim
On Thursday, 24 Jun 2004 00:52, David Goodenough wrote: On Wednesday 23 June 2004 16:27, Alexander Nordström wrote: On Wednesday, 23 Jun 2004 21:14, David Goodenough wrote: Why was KVim added as the default editor (at least when you open files with Konqueror) when we have so many other good editors? It would seem to be a reasonable assumption that if one has installed vimpart, one wants to use it rather than the default Embedded Advanced Text Editor. Naturally, this is still configurable from the Control Centre-KDE Components-Component Chooser-Embedded text editor. I know I can go through all the associations in Konqueror and remove KVim, but I want to do it automatically so that my users do not keep on having to replicate this action. My guess is that the reason programs would be removed along with kvim is that those programs have been installed through metapackages such as kde-extras, kdeaddons, and kdekitchensink. If you desperately need the 1.8 MiB, the individual packages of those metapackages do not require kvim or vimpart and can be installed individually. Simply choosing another editor component would seem easier, though. I looked at the Control Centre, and the Embedded text editor was already set to the Embedded Advanced Text editor, rather than KVim. Your file associations may be overriding that default, then, or the file associations are set to open text files in a separate viewer (being KVim), and not in an embedded viewer, as I originally interpreted your description. Check in the Control Centre-KDE Components-File Associations under the relevant file type(s), such as text/plain. Under Application Preference Order, demote or remove KVim and add or promote your desired editor. In the embedding tab, select how plaintext files are to be opened, and set the Services Preference Order, if applicable. I really do not care whether Vim and its friends are installed, what I mind about is what the user sees and how to make sure that it is not Vim. If all else fails, you should be able to remove metapackages without their dependants being removed as well, so removing kvim should not be a problem either. As I showed, I could remove it without taking anything with it, and I have a fair bit of KDE installed, though I've mostly avoided meta packages. As far as I can see, the only dependants of kvim that are not directly vim-related are kde-extras, and (via vimpart) kdeaddon. What exactly gets marked for removal when you try to remove kvim? What happens if you mark the meta packages for removal? (I can mark other meta packages that I do have installed for removal without their dependants also being marked.) I do not understand why it was thought that Vim would be a good idea for ordinary end users. As much as I like vi, I might have to agree with that. The inclusion of kvim and vimpart in popular meta packages could be questioned, at least if it is greedy about file associations. I'm not sure whether this issue is specific to your installation, or to Debian, or if it is related to some universal behaviour of kde, so I can't tell if this should be an issue for the kde-usability and/or kde-quality lists, nor do I feel like I have the seniority to advise on whether or not to file a wishlist bug against kde-extras to demote vimpart to Suggests instead of Recommends. Your judgement is probably as good as mine, or better. -- Alex Nordstrom
Re: How to get rid of KVim
As much as I like vi, I might have to agree with that. The inclusion of kvim and vimpart in popular meta packages could be questioned, at least if it is greedy about file associations. FWIW, I have kvim and vimpart installed and they have never offered themselves as defaults for anything. I'm not sure what chain of events might have led to kvim becoming the default editor on this particular system. b.
