Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Nicolas FRANCOIS - 15.10.18, 08:45: > Le Fri, 7 May 2010 20:29:52 +0200, > Martin Steigerwald a écrit : […] > Either you are posting from the past, or your clock is way off ! :-) > Could you please try to correct the problem ? I see all your messages > at the bottom of my list of new messages... It's quite disturbing. If you reply to a thread that is from 2010, then yes, my mails appear outdated. Time is NTP controlled on all of my systems. My mails have correct time and date. So please fix the cause why you receive mails from your time machine. Also this is kind of a Deja Vu to me. You wrote something like this before, didn't you? (There is also no point in giving me feedback like this on list. This will also be my last reply on list about that topic.) Thanks, -- Martin
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Le Fri, 7 May 2010 20:29:52 +0200, Martin Steigerwald a écrit : Hi Martin. Either you are posting from the past, or your clock is way off ! :-) Could you please try to correct the problem ? I see all your messages at the bottom of my list of new messages... It's quite disturbing. Thanks. \bye -- Nicolas FRANCOIS | /\ http://nicolas.francois.free.fr | |__| X--/\\ We are the Micro$oft. _\_V Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. darthvader penguin pgp92LpczUPFP.pgp Description: Signature digitale OpenPGP
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On 2010-05-06 Diederik de Haas wrote: PostgreSQL is apparently capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make into SC 4.4 (?). So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that patch on 4.4. I don't want to reinstate this discussion, but I just found sth which I haven't heard/read about before, which might help you (haven't tried it myself). I just started the Akonadi Tray utility, then right-clicked on the tray icon and chose Configure... The second tab, labelled Akonadi Server Configuration has a setting for Database driver, which allows you to choose between MySQL and ... PostgreSQL With PostgreSQL selected, you can specify your database settings. Maybe that helps. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005081944.08205.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
... and an old bugaboo from the 4.2 days: If plasma takes a long time to come up for whatever reason, the pager settings get mangled and sometimes the active desktop as well (one must zoom out and then zoom in on the right one to restore). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005082240.18036.d_ba...@012.net.il
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On penktadienis 07 Gegužė 2010 01:59:39 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I should have some time to pitch in and help before and after the freeze date. What can I do to make sure KMail doesn't need Akonadi when Squeeze is released? I've been told that back-porting the Akonadi/PostgreSQL patches is unlikely to help. I'm not averse to helping, but I don't have lots of time -- a few evenings a week at most. I'm not unable to help, but I'm not too familiar with Debian packging of the KDE SC 4.x code case -- I can read/write all the computer languages involved, though. Supporting and testing unreleased or beta software is the biggest problem. If you want your pet issue fixed, you have to get akonadi from trunk, build it, test whole Debian's KDE 4.4.x *extensively* with it including third party akonadi plugins like googledata one. Finally severe regressions should be fixed. For packaging, README.Debian needs to be written on how to switch DB backends since there won't be GUI for it. And when this is done, that akonadi could be considered for stable. In other words, you have to do part of upstream release management work without knowing the code well. You can be sure that upstream won't be pleased with Debian releasing unreleased version of akonadi. But maybe you can convince them otherwise to release earlier to accommodate Debian needs. There is lots of work to be done. Initial akonadi trunk packaging is at [1]. I have been using it with SQLite for over a month now. Yet I don't use akonadi features extensively (not even addressbook or korganizer) so I can't tell much about quality of the code. But I can tell you that if you don't step up, this plan probably won't make it. 1. http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/branches/akonadi- trunk/#_branches_akonadi-trunk_ You started this off on a wrong foot by demanding to accommodate to your needs. Please is not a demand last time I checked. I think that KMail requiring MySQL to function in Debian stable is a problem. I request that the Qt/KDE packaging team take steps to ensure that Debian stable users are not stranded with that situation for the lifetime of stable. It might be a problem for some people (short on RAM on their machines), not a problem for others. Generally, you need to stop talking and generalizing what you don't know (like keep claiming that releasing with different versions wasn't considered despite obvious proof on the contrary). There are a number of solutions to this. Newer Akonadi should run on non- MySQL data stores. Older KMail doesn't talk to Akonadi. Patches could be applied to either. Stable could include software from multiple KDE releases, as has been done before. What I tried to say to you all this time, if Akonadi renders Kmail unusable to you, switch the client! Akonadi by itself is not a bug, it is not going away! Take it or switch to something else, simple as that. I'm not saying to get rid of Akonadi-tied KMail. I'm certainly not saying Akonadi by itself is a bug. I'd be perfectly happy with Akonadi/PostgreSQL making it into stable, in fact I'd be excited to play with Akonadi! PostgreSQL/SQLite is a FEATURE, it is not a bug which has to be fixed no matter what. If you want it in, stop ranting and start working on it. Give fewer lessons how Debian works and actually do something useful towards your goal. Especially since the lack of technical knowledge or background should not be the problem for you. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:49:08 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.) KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all in KDE 4.4. It might use Akonadi in KDE 4.5. The only thing using Akonadi by default in KDE 4.4 is the new KAddressBook. AFAIK. Not true. I installed KMail from Sid earlier this week. It refused to send mail by entering an infinite loop trying to connect to an Akonadi server that I was not running. No, to the best of my knowledge, it is true what I wrote. But KMail uses the new Akonadi based KAdressBook for address completion. Thats why Akonadi is started. KAddressBook and KOrganizer depend on Akonadi in KDE 4.3 and I believe they also did so in KDE 4.2. But they did not use it by default. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:59:35 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4. Have you installed and tried it? I have. It does require Akonadi in KDE 4.4.3. Again, no. KAddressBook does. And KMail uses KAddressBook for address completion. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Modestas Vainius: Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 23:48:43 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: [...] YOU assume that your truth is an ultimate one. Not really. I made objective statement about KMail based on observable facts. I also voiced an opinion that I based on that statement. What facts? That kdepim/kmail needs akonadi? That's hardly news. Akonadi integration is not stable enough? There is still time to improve it. That's what Ana's blog was about. If YOU have so many problems with particular piece of software, look for better options or read the first part of this mail again. I have problems with a very narrow selection of selection of the software. Specifically, I don't want to need MySQL installed in order to use KMail effectively in Debian stable. It is not like every mail client on the market suddenly needs MySQL. Actually, kmail is probably unique in this area. Again. AFAIK KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all. Its the new KAddressBook that based on Akonadi. And since KMail uses it for address completion... For the user it looks as if KMail uses Akonadi, but to the best of my knowledge it doesn't - at least not directly. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in the akonadi- / nepomuk-based rewrite of KMail as KMail 2. There are a number of solutions to this. Newer Akonadi should run on non- MySQL data stores. Older KMail doesn't talk to Akonadi. Patches could be applied to either. Stable could include software from multiple KDE releases, as has been done before. What I tried to say to you all this time, if Akonadi renders Kmail unusable to you, switch the client! Akonadi by itself is not a bug, it is not going away! Take it or switch to something else, simple as that. And I want to add: It does not render it unusable for everyone. Even when Akonadi does not start up cleanly, which happens on first start of Kontact for example as I reported already, I still *can* use KMail. Its just that the address book function do not work properly then. Although I didn't even verify this. Cause even when I get the Akonadi startup errors, KAddressBook shows the list of the people in my address book, its just ghosted out and not clickable. So maybe address completion would still work. But even if it doesn't, KMail as a whole actually does still work then. Anyway, most important is to file and an all bugs with Akonadi in KDEPIM upstream ASAP. And that is where I suggest that people - including you Boyd - put their energy now. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Freitag 07 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: Reverting to KDEPIM 4.3 is an option, as is shipping an Akonadi that doesn't require MySQL. I know KDEPIM 4.3 works in a mostly KDE SC 4.4 environment (that's my current setup). I'll bet that pre-Akonadi-integration KMail could work with the rest of KDEPIM 4.4. There are a lot of ways to address my issue, and I don't demand that you address it at all. Where did you get that Akonadi from KDEPIM 4.3 does not require MySQL? AFAIK thats just not true. Akonadi always *required* MySQL. Maybe it won't in KDE 4.5, but until then. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Freitag 07 Mai 2010 schrieb Modestas Vainius: Hello, Hello Modestas, On penktadienis 07 Gegužė 2010 01:59:39 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I should have some time to pitch in and help before and after the freeze date. What can I do to make sure KMail doesn't need Akonadi when Squeeze is released? I've been told that back-porting the Akonadi/PostgreSQL patches is unlikely to help. I'm not averse to helping, but I don't have lots of time -- a few evenings a week at most. I'm not unable to help, but I'm not too familiar with Debian packging of the KDE SC 4.x code case -- I can read/write all the computer languages involved, though. Supporting and testing unreleased or beta software is the biggest problem. If you want your pet issue fixed, you have to get akonadi from trunk, build it, test whole Debian's KDE 4.4.x *extensively* with it including third party akonadi plugins like googledata one. Finally severe regressions should be fixed. For packaging, README.Debian needs to be written on how to switch DB backends since there won't be GUI for it. And when this is done, that akonadi could be considered for stable. In other words, you have to do part of upstream release management work without knowing the code well. You can be sure that upstream won't be pleased with Debian releasing unreleased version of akonadi. But maybe you can convince them otherwise to release earlier to accommodate Debian needs. There is lots of work to be done. Initial akonadi trunk packaging is at [1]. I have been using it with SQLite for over a month now. Yet I don't use akonadi features extensively (not even addressbook or korganizer) so I can't tell much about quality of the code. But I can tell you that if you don't step up, this plan probably won't make it. Now thats an offer to help for anyone who has a problem with a MySQL based Akonadi. But I thought SQLite would not be suitable for Akonadi. Did change it seems. 1. http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/branches/akonadi- trunk/#_branches_akonadi-trunk_ How would one compile packages out of this? svn co akonadi-trunk from KDE project, svn checkout above URL and place the debian directory into the KDE akonadi-trunk checkout? I'm not saying to get rid of Akonadi-tied KMail. I'm certainly not saying Akonadi by itself is a bug. I'd be perfectly happy with Akonadi/PostgreSQL making it into stable, in fact I'd be excited to play with Akonadi! PostgreSQL/SQLite is a FEATURE, it is not a bug which has to be fixed no matter what. If you want it in, stop ranting and start working on it. Give fewer lessons how Debian works and actually do something useful towards your goal. Especially since the lack of technical knowledge or background should not be the problem for you. Thanks a lot Modestas for staying so constructive in this discussion. Yes, thats an option. I might even try these packages, although except for that annoying first start problems the current MySQL based Akonadi seems to work quite well. Well but I am not completely satisfied with current Akonadi either I might be interested in testing Akonadi trunk and helping with it. Boyd, this and raising concerns regarding MySQL based Akonadi upstream - in a constructive manner - will likely help more than continuining the discussion here. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Friday 07 May 2010 05:42:55 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:59:35 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4. Have you installed and tried it? I have. It does require Akonadi in KDE 4.4.3. Again, no. KAddressBook does. And KMail uses KAddressBook for address completion. KMail did not hang during address completion. I composed a reply without having keyboard focus enter any of the address fields. Once I hit the [Send] button, the UI froze for both the composer and the main (Kontact) window. Closing either stalled and then KWin asked if I wanted to forcefully terminate the application. After doing so, I restarted contact from a shell in order to watch the various messages printed. Kontact started normally and my message was in my drafts folder. I opened the message from there and clicked [Send]. Again, the UI froze in both the composer and the main windows. On the console, about once every .5 sec. or so, an error message was printing indicating that the application could not connect to the local Akonadi server (or maybe it was that Akonadi couldn't connect to the local DB). In either case, KMail 4.4.3 will not send mail unless I have Akonadi and MySQL installed. I do not have KAddressBook or KOrganizer installed, since even the versions from testing have a indirect Depends relationship on MySQL. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Friday 07 May 2010 04:39:00 Modestas Vainius wrote: Initial akonadi trunk packaging is at [1]. I have been using it with SQLite for over a month now. Yet I don't use akonadi features extensively (not even addressbook or korganizer) so I can't tell much about quality of the code. But I can tell you that if you don't step up, this plan probably won't make it. 1. http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/branches/akonadi- trunk/#_branches_akonadi-trunk_ Thank you. Since you seem to have SQLite working, I'll focus my efforts on testing, documentation, and bug fixing on that. On penktadienis 07 Gegužė 2010 01:59:39 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I think that KMail requiring MySQL to function in Debian stable is a problem. I request that the Qt/KDE packaging team take steps to ensure that Debian stable users are not stranded with that situation for the lifetime of stable. Generally, you need to stop talking and generalizing what you don't know (like keep claiming that releasing with different versions wasn't considered despite obvious proof on the contrary). Really? It was rejected out-of-hand when I suggested using KDEPIM 4.3. Quoting: Move on. kdepim 4.3 is gone. Quoting: KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here I'm not saying to get rid of Akonadi-tied KMail. I'm certainly not saying Akonadi by itself is a bug. I'd be perfectly happy with Akonadi/PostgreSQL making it into stable, in fact I'd be excited to play with Akonadi! PostgreSQL/SQLite is a FEATURE, it is not a bug which has to be fixed no matter what. I'm not willing to argue feature vs. bug. Having a KMail with a strong dependency on MySQL in a Debian stable release would be a problem, IMO. It is especially onerous likely to only affect KMail from KDE SC 4.4.x and not from earlier or (if progress continues) later releases. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Friday 07 May 2010 05:53:57 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Freitag 07 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: Reverting to KDEPIM 4.3 is an option, as is shipping an Akonadi that doesn't require MySQL. I know KDEPIM 4.3 works in a mostly KDE SC 4.4 environment (that's my current setup). I'll bet that pre-Akonadi-integration KMail could work with the rest of KDEPIM 4.4. There are a lot of ways to address my issue, and I don't demand that you address it at all. Where did you get that Akonadi from KDEPIM 4.3 does not require MySQL? AFAIK thats just not true. Akonadi always *required* MySQL. Maybe it won't in KDE 4.5, but until then. KMail from KDEPIM 4.3 did not require MySQL because it didn't require Akonadi. KMail from KDEPIM 4.4 does require MySQL because Akonadi form KDE SC 4.4 requires MySQL. KMail from KDEPIM 4.5 might not require MySQL because Akonadi from KDE SC 4.5 might not require MySQL. My concern is the KMail - MySQL relationship. There are quite a few ways to fix that. I think I'm going to focus my efforts on getting Akonadi/SQLite ready for a release that is compatible with KDE SC 4.4 but occurs before the freeze date, as well as documenting how to use it. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Freitag 07 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Friday 07 May 2010 05:42:55 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:59:35 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4. Have you installed and tried it? I have. It does require Akonadi in KDE 4.4.3. Again, no. KAddressBook does. And KMail uses KAddressBook for address completion. KMail did not hang during address completion. I composed a reply without having keyboard focus enter any of the address fields. Once I hit the [Send] button, the UI froze for both the composer and the main (Kontact) window. Closing either stalled and then KWin asked if I wanted to forcefully terminate the application. After doing so, I restarted contact from a shell in order to watch the various messages printed. Kontact started normally and my message was in my drafts folder. I opened the message from there and clicked [Send]. Again, the UI froze in both the composer and the main windows. On the console, about once every .5 sec. or so, an error message was printing indicating that the application could not connect to the local Akonadi server (or maybe it was that Akonadi couldn't connect to the local DB). In either case, KMail 4.4.3 will not send mail unless I have Akonadi and MySQL installed. I do not have KAddressBook or KOrganizer installed, since even the versions from testing have a indirect Depends relationship on MySQL. Hmmm, strange. Well maybe KMail does address completion more directly than via KAddressBook. There might be a component in KDEPIM libs doing that for KMail. For - just for looking up email address - KMail really calls into Akonadi. But AFAIK it doesn't use Akonadi - through what ways ever - for anything other than retrieving contact data. Thus the use of Akonadi could not be that wide-spread in KMail. However, KDEPIM will use Akonadi more and more, so IMHO its better to have Akonadi improved and fixed than to remove the Akonadi dependency in KMail temporarily. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: However, whether to ship akonadi trunk/beta/final of the next version is another question which is still open. In my opinion, Akonadi itself is pretty mature so it might be doable. I didn't complain well. This is the true crux of my complaint. I don't think stable users want an Akonadi that only supports one backend. If nothing else, it makes bugs harder to work around, and I find staying with stable generally requires working around a non-RC bug or two during its lifetime. Virtuoso, PostgreSQL, or SQLite -- any one of those as an option would satisfy me, and I can't really speak for others. SQLite or Virtuoso might be interesting to reduce resource footprint. And it would be nice if Akonadi works via NFS, where at least regarding the wiki MySQL's inno db tables might be a problem. I asked on kde-pim and kdepim-users mailing lists. And got quite some feedback. Apparently it might just work if only one Akonadi is running and the network environment and nfs servers are stable. Fair enough for now. KMail never worked in mutiple instances. And one user pointed out that its possible to use a central MySQL server with local filesystem for Akonadi stuff. Well let's see. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On penktadienis 07 Gegužė 2010 20:02:08 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On penktadienis 07 Gegužė 2010 01:59:39 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I think that KMail requiring MySQL to function in Debian stable is a problem. I request that the Qt/KDE packaging team take steps to ensure that Debian stable users are not stranded with that situation for the lifetime of stable. Generally, you need to stop talking and generalizing what you don't know (like keep claiming that releasing with different versions wasn't considered despite obvious proof on the contrary). Really? It was rejected out-of-hand when I suggested using KDEPIM 4.3. Quoting: Move on. kdepim 4.3 is gone. Quoting: KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here It's exactly as you see. Reverting to kdepim 4.3 (because it supposedly does not need mysqld) is not an option for consideration because disadvantages out-weights advantages way too much. What I meant with despite obvious proof on the contrary is openness to consider akonadi update options which I have told you in my very first reply. It's good to have volunteer(s) for the job. I'm not saying to get rid of Akonadi-tied KMail. I'm certainly not saying Akonadi by itself is a bug. I'd be perfectly happy with Akonadi/PostgreSQL making it into stable, in fact I'd be excited to play with Akonadi! PostgreSQL/SQLite is a FEATURE, it is not a bug which has to be fixed no matter what. I'm not willing to argue feature vs. bug. Having a KMail with a strong dependency on MySQL in a Debian stable release would be a problem, IMO. It is especially onerous likely to only affect KMail from KDE SC 4.4.x and not from earlier or (if progress continues) later releases. It is merely an annoyance, not even a bug. And Debian is supposed to give up bug fixes and enhancements in stable kdepim 4.4.x in order to avoid your pet annoyance? Kinda selfish. But really, let's just stop here, we won't agree anyway so let's do something useful rather than argue pointlessly. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday, 2010-05-06, Sune Vuorela wrote: On 2010-05-05, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net wrote: I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my data. = UPS or not. Then luckily you don't have to. The only data that mysql is *storing* (as opposed to caching) is data it still haven't been able to sync with the world. Additionally, I think it is possible to configure this version of Akonadi to work with a Postgres instance. Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday, 2010-05-06, Michael Schuerig wrote: On Wednesday 05 May 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but it falls under new feature so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line. Do you have a pointer to the discussion? As far as the safety of your data is concerned, none of your emails are stored in MySQL (yet). Mail storage is still in the file system, Akonadi is only used for contacts. That said, I'd be much happier myself without having to run yet another database server on my machine. Right now there are global instances of PostgreSQL and MySQL (personal and for work); on top of that, for each logged-in user, Akonadi runs a private MySQL server as well as a virtuoso server. Incidentally, virtuoso is a SQL database in its own right, persumably fully capable of completing supplanting MySQL in this case. Akonadi can be configure to use a global instance, the default is to run a private one purely because the other option requires database admin priviledges to set it up. Virtuoso indeed looks like a solution to go forward with, unfortunately it currently has some problems with the combination of ODBC and the respective QSql driver. Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wednesday 05 May 2010 23.21:15 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). Note that mysql recently split their server package into a server and a core package, so you get a minimal mysql installation without a system- wide copy of mysql running. Yes, akonadi will still use mysql internally, but it's (mostly) transparent to the user. My main issue with the akonadi/mysql dependencies is thus solved. (Yes, it is not very cool to have mysql running for akonadi and virtuoso for nepomuk/strigi and probably quite a few copies of libsqlite and libdb for other subsystems. But I guess we'll just have to live with that unless we're prepared to do the work ourselves... ) cheers -- vbi -- Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature! -- G. B. Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. As can be read on many places, Akonadi is there to stay. And as you mentioned in another post, the dependency to Akonadi has been in place for a while now (Korganizer and KAddressBook since 4.2). So there's no way in hell you're going to have (upstream) support for an Akonadi-less PIM. Or don't you like the Akonadi dependency to mysql-server? Well, it's not the full mysqld package anymore, but the dependency is to mysql-server-core(-5.1) (see #548419). SQLite has been found inappropriate since it lacks proper transaction support. PostgreSQL is apparently capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make into SC 4.4 (?). So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that patch on 4.4. Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3 programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries. Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Yeah right, let's get a combination of 4.3 and 4.4 (and 4.2?) into stable, that surely must be preferable. And good luck getting any upstream support for bugs resulting from that. As Ana indicated the freeze won't wait for SC 4.5, so better make the best out of 4.4. If you want the freeze to wait for 4.5, better try to convince the release team. Good luck. Diederik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060913.06917.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 06:13:50PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as please make sure KDE 4.4 is ready for stable. My post was KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. All the replies have been too bad, we are going to release it anyway. No, you complain about something *specific* no the whole KDE 4.4, as I told you, if you are able to develop a patch for it, there is plenty of time for testing before freeze. Understand no everybody is annoyed about that. Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506071807.ga30...@ana.debian.net
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Mike Bird: On Wed May 5 2010 15:53:05 Frederik Schwarzer wrote: How does having a kdepim that depends on mysql declare kde as broken? Sure, many oppose to that dependency, but it works, doesn't it? (1) It reportedly breaks home directories stored on NFS servers. (2) It's such a bad idea that KDE is rushing to remove it. (3) Does Debian really want to implement robust migration both to MySQL (for Squeeze) and then out of MySQL (for Squeeze+1)? Whether Akonadi works or not appears to be a game of roulette to me. Freshly since upgrading from KDE 4.4.3: Bug 236535 - sometimes can't open and log timezone and privilege tables https://bugs.kde.org/236535 Bug 236538 - often does not find resource agents on first start of Kontact https://bugs.kde.org/236538 Bug 236539 - dbus session bus not available on first start of Kontact - race condition? https://bugs.kde.org/236539 I already grepped in ~/.local/share/contacts for contact information as Akonadi was not available and I didn't now it would be there when I start kontact again. My address book as to be accessible *all of the time* without bombarding me with more and less cryptic error messages. There are about 15 self tests that might fail. I think Akonadi from KDE 4.4 depends on too many external factors that it just can't control fully. But nonetheless: I think these issues should be fixed upstream. And I also don't what else Debian developers could do then to use KDEPIM from KDE 4.4 if the freeze will really happen this summer. Shipping KDEPIM 4.3 with KDE 4.4 might not be an option for Debian KDE developers, cause it abandoned by upstream already and all security fixes needs to be backported. Sure when KDE 4.5 is out the same happens to KDE 4.4, but at least it will contain the security and other fixes upto then. So either KDE project decides to fix any Akonadi related issues for KDE 4.4 series or Debian extends freeze. Other options would be: Shipping a KDE 4.5 backport or even Squeeze + 1 shortly afterwards. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.) ... Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me. How many users have postgres installed on their desktop? Do you complain just because `ps aux | grep mysqld` returns something and you can't stand it or you have any real issues with it? I have real issues with having to spare the disk space and RAM on my laptop for it. PostgreSQL is for work; I don't get much choice about running that. I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my data. UPS or not. My email is fairly important for me -- I am probably in KMail only slightly less than I am in a source code editor. When I'm testing or deploying updates, I spend *more* time in KMail. KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all in KDE 4.4. It might use Akonadi in KDE 4.5. The only thing using Akonadi by default in KDE 4.4 is the new KAddressBook. AFAIK. So KDE 4.5 might even be more problematic in the beginning. Especially when I remember the roughnesses of KDE 4.3.0 and KDE 4.4.0 I do not suggest to ship a .0 or even .1 release of KDE. Even KDE 4.4.2 had quite some bugs that KDE 4.4.3 fixed. So shipping KDE 4.4.3 or 4.4.4 oder 4.4.5 IMHO could well be a better option that to ship KDE 4.5.0 with Debian Squeeze. Sadly I have not seen any KDE 4.x.0 release yet thats really suitable for Debian Stable. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Kevin Krammer: On Thursday, 2010-05-06, Sune Vuorela wrote: On 2010-05-05, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net wrote: I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my data. = UPS or not. Then luckily you don't have to. The only data that mysql is *storing* (as opposed to caching) is data it still haven't been able to sync with the world. Additionally, I think it is possible to configure this version of Akonadi to work with a Postgres instance. To me from my current impression of unreliability whether Akonadi is available or not this seems to put another experiment on a stack of experiments. Sorry, but from my findings I believe that Akonadi is not yet ready for prime time. As file indexing via Nepomuk. I reported most issues upstream and I can only suggest for other Debian users to do so as well. I don't think that Debian KDE developers have much time to deal with upstream bugs. Granted some of the bugs could also be packaging bugs, but I will ping back to Debian KDE developers should I get hints at that. Just sometimes I am fed up enough that I do not report a bug. Cause doing a proper bug report takes quite some time. I think I never reported that many KDE bugs than since KDE 4. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4, it might in KDE 4.5. Its KAddressBook that uses Akonadi by default now. No other component actually really used Akonadi before. At least that is what I know. Actually when I see the problems with Akonadi in KDE 4.4, I'd rather not ship a KMail from KDE 4.5.0 to end users if it uses Akonadi. I am also not quite a fan of shipping a KDE installation with mixed versions, but IMHO thats up for the Debian KDE developers to decide. I can understand when they do not want to. KAdressbook from KDE 4.3 is a completely different beast. It has been rewritten for KDE 4.4. Thus if you use the one from KDE 4.3, yours will be different from any other distro installed KDE. Unless another distribution decides to do such a version mixture. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
* On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote: I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to other users due to the my way or the highway attitude I've encountered since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506112823.gs28...@n0nb.us
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
[Nate Bargmann - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 13:28:23] * On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote: I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to other users due to the my way or the highway attitude I've encountered since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. I certainly understand both sides here. The hardest break for KDE 4 was/is probably the social provocation it induced. For over a year, the developers that were working hard on getting things fixed did hear a lot of you are stupid, you do not listen to users and give me kicker back comments. It's not just the developers to blame if they do not have the patience to answer every akonady sucks comment with proper reasoning. Regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061422.51375.schwarz...@gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
* On 2010 06 May 07:27 -0500, Frederik Schwarzer wrote: [Nate Bargmann - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 13:28:23] * On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote: I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to other users due to the my way or the highway attitude I've encountered since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. I certainly understand both sides here. The hardest break for KDE 4 was/is probably the social provocation it induced. For over a year, the developers that were working hard on getting things fixed did hear a lot of you are stupid, you do not listen to users and give me kicker back comments. It's not just the developers to blame if they do not have the patience to answer every akonady sucks comment with proper reasoning. During that time, I gave the devs the benefit of the doubt understanding the new directions they were taking and buying the hype that things would be improved. After a a year of use of KDE4, I disagree that much is improved for *me*. I'm fine with the devs doing whatever they want with the codebase--it's theirs after all--but when I as a simple user feel left behind at the station then I must consider the alternatives. It's not just the multitude of server processes that KDE4 seems to insist on running, but the lost functionality. To wit, I participated in an open bug on Konsole where the KDE4 version no longer generates the PC speaker style beep. I understand that to many the beep is annoying but I've heard it for so long that I now rely on it for efficient use of the terminal. The dev's reply was essentially, Too bad. Still, I'm not alone in regretting this small loss of functionality. After all, the code for the beep had to actively been removed in the newer versions of Konsole but as a Konsole user, I was never asked in any way how this decision would affect me. Too bad. Along the same lines, I cannot be convinced that Device Notifier is a suitable replacement for the similar functionality in KDE 3.5. Other tasks that I found easy in 3.5 are now cumbersome at best *for me* in KDE4. Now that my system is poised to update to KDE 4.4, I think this is where I'll get off the train and let KDE go where it wants and I shall go elsewhere. Thanks for the fish. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506130552.ga18...@n0nb.us
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Nate Bargmann wrote: Now that my system is poised to update to KDE 4.4, I think this is where I'll get off the train and let KDE go where it wants and I shall go elsewhere. Thanks for the fish. - Nate Free software is all about freedom: - developers are free to assign their time to whatever they see fit - other developers are free to fork code and use a given codebase - users are free to use the code - … or not. You are free to choose whatever software fits you best. Your problem seems that Debian won't ship KDE 3.5 because nobody (so far) is interesting in doing the work. No ranting will change that (rather the opposite even). I see two paths you can take : * change DE and stop ranting * contribute and change the situation That's just IMHO. Cheers, OdyX -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hruge0$8k...@dough.gmane.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On 2010-05-06 Nate Bargmann wrote: So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to other users due to the my way or the highway attitude I've encountered since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. Note: too bad are my words and I'm not a kde developer. Following blog post by Aaron Seigo yielded all the usual responses: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061549.26617.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
El Miércoles 05 Mayo 2010 17:24:49 Ana Guerrero a...@debian.org escribió: Hi, Given no everybody reads planet Debian, here goes a copy of http://ekaia.org/blog/2010/05/05/kde-443-in-unstable/ Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable, Squeeze. What this means: go and update to 4.4.3, test, and when you find a bug, please, follow this instructions [0]. If you are lazy to read it: report upstream bugs at the KDE Bugzilla and report the packaging/integration bugs in the Debian BTS. When in doubt, you have the Debian KDE mailing list [1], that is being successful so far in maintaining a good signal-noise ratio. ... Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!! Thanks!! The only problem I'm having is that kmail is not searching in the full address list when writing a new message. But i can drag from kaddressbook for now... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061250.53353.budin...@gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
El Jueves 06 Mayo 2010 12:50:52 Facundo Aguilera budin...@gmail.com escribió: Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!! Thanks!! The only problem I'm having is that kmail is not searching in the full address list when writing a new message. But i can drag from kaddressbook for now... Solved, I just create again the akonadi resource in systemsettings... the old setting was removed in the upgrade. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061259.42306.budin...@gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:49:08 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.) KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all in KDE 4.4. It might use Akonadi in KDE 4.5. The only thing using Akonadi by default in KDE 4.4 is the new KAddressBook. AFAIK. Not true. I installed KMail from Sid earlier this week. It refused to send mail by entering an infinite loop trying to connect to an Akonadi server that I was not running. KAddressBook and KOrganizer depend on Akonadi in KDE 4.3 and I believe they also did so in KDE 4.2. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:59:35 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4. Have you installed and tried it? I have. It does require Akonadi in KDE 4.4.3. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On 2010-05-06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: Not true. I installed KMail from Sid earlier this week. It refused to send mail by entering an infinite loop trying to connect to an Akonadi server that I was not running. KAddressBook and KOrganizer depend on Akonadi in KDE 4.3 and I believe they also did so in KDE 4.2. Does 3.11 of http://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi_4.4/Troubleshooting apply to you then? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061934.32824.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 02:13:06 Diederik de Haas wrote: I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? No. I believe in Akonadi as a technology and I don't have a problem with it. Or don't you like the Akonadi dependency to mysql-server? Well, it's not the full mysqld package anymore, but the dependency is to mysql-server-core(-5.1) (see #548419). That's still yet another RDBMS. I already have plenty installed, thanks. PostgreSQL is apparently capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make into SC 4.4 (?). So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that patch on 4.4. Again, would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream intends that patch for KDE SC 4.5, and I don't believe they will apply it to the KDE SC 4.4.x line. I know the majority of the work has already been done. I can probably backport those patches to KDE SC 4.4 before the freeze date, but I don't want to start the work if there's no chance for it to get into Debian. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 20:40:21 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: PostgreSQL is apparently capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make into SC 4.4 (?). So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that patch on 4.4. Again, would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream intends that patch for KDE SC 4.5, and I don't believe they will apply it to the KDE SC 4.4.x line. I know the majority of the work has already been done. I can probably backport those patches to KDE SC 4.4 before the freeze date, but I don't want to start the work if there's no chance for it to get into Debian. We are generally not interested in backporting random features, Debian is not ubuntu. So the answer is most likely no. However, whether to ship akonadi trunk/beta/final of the next version is another question which is still open. In my opinion, Akonadi itself is pretty mature so it might be doable. That's KDE integration which is lacking in quality. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 10:50:52 Facundo Aguilera wrote: El Miércoles 05 Mayo 2010 17:24:49 Ana Guerrero a...@debian.org escribió: Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!! Thanks!! While I've already aired my complaints, I haven't yet chimed in here. Thank you! The packaging work is greatly appreciated. The uploads to Sid are quite timely and save me a lot of work. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 02:13:50 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: Debian packagers don't have that much time to spend on packaging (they are volunteers after all), and hardly they can do decisions about which particular branch is better. They have to package the last one which has been released, unless has been released very soon and there is no time for testing. Stable is going to be with those users for at least a year, probably more. They deserve more than whatever upstream wants to throw at the wall this week. Debian users deserve quality packaging of upstream software, good integration of it throughout the whole distribution and general assumption that it won't eat their kittens (yet data loss bugs happen). But whether upstream software meets users' needs is out of Debian scope. Just find another software/solution which does, develop it by yourself, pay somebody to develop it for you or ask kindly and wait till somebody else is motivated enough to do it. Also, is specially hard to decide which branch is better, because branch A can have application X in a great shape, and application Y in a bad one, while in branch B the case might be the opposite. And having to go back one whole release of the whole software compilation just because one app has one annoying dependency is a little bit overkill, isn't it? Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3 programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries. Heck, just stop *kmail* from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Move on. kdepim 4.3 is gone. Given that KDE SC 4.5 might release with kdepim from 4.4 anyway extending kdepim 4.4 codebase lifetime to 1 year, beating dead horse (4.3) makes absolutely no sense. I recommend you to face reality here. These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as please make sure KDE 4.4 is ready for stable. My post was KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. All the replies have been too bad, we are going to release it anyway. Don't you see that you always put yourself in the front in your rationales? YOU run a dozen of DB servers, YOU don't want another one, YOU don't trust MySQL, YOU say KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. Nothing objective and YOU assume that your truth is an ultimate one. Pet bugs are always RC to the reporter, but yet again, we need to face reality here. If YOU have so many problems with particular piece of software, look for better options or read the first part of this mail again. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 12:47:12 Modestas Vainius wrote: On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 20:40:21 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: PostgreSQL is apparently capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make into SC 4.4 (?). So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that patch on 4.4. Again, would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream intends that patch for KDE SC 4.5, and I don't believe they will apply it to the KDE SC 4.4.x line. I know the majority of the work has already been done. I can probably backport those patches to KDE SC 4.4 before the freeze date, but I don't want to start the work if there's no chance for it to get into Debian. We are generally not interested in backporting random features, Debian is not ubuntu. So the answer is most likely no. Good. I didn't want to do the work anyway. ;) However, whether to ship akonadi trunk/beta/final of the next version is another question which is still open. In my opinion, Akonadi itself is pretty mature so it might be doable. I didn't complain well. *This* is the true crux of my complaint. I don't think stable users want an Akonadi that only supports one backend. If nothing else, it makes bugs harder to work around, and I find staying with stable generally requires working around a non-RC bug or two during its lifetime. Virtuoso, PostgreSQL, or SQLite -- any one of those as an option would satisfy me, and I can't really speak for others. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 14:33:40 Modestas Vainius wrote: On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 02:13:50 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: Debian packagers don't have that much time to spend on packaging (they are volunteers after all), and hardly they can do decisions about which particular branch is better. They have to package the last one which has been released, unless has been released very soon and there is no time for testing. Stable is going to be with those users for at least a year, probably more. They deserve more than whatever upstream wants to throw at the wall this week. Debian users deserve quality packaging of upstream software, good integration of it throughout the whole distribution and general assumption that it won't eat their kittens (yet data loss bugs happen). Agreed. But whether upstream software meets users' needs is out of Debian scope. Absolutely NOT TRUE. Debian decides what software to include. It largely depends on volunteers to do the packaging and the availability of the source, but Debian does choose not to include software that is inappropriate for stable, either dropping it from testing post-freeze or not uploading it to sid at all. Debian also decides what version(s) of the software to include. When multiple distributions had decided to release with KDE 4.x, Debian Lenny included KDE 3.5.9/10. However, new upstream releases that occur after the freeze date have made it into stable in the past. There's a lot to consider, since Debian needs upstream's help in addressing bugs throughout the lifetime of stable, and that's easier to achieve with the latest release. But then again, stable needs to be usable on release day. Release early, release often is great for development, it is not so great for stability (both in lack of bugs and lack of change meanings). Sometimes the most recent release from upstream is not best for Debian stable. Just find another software/solution which does, develop it by yourself, pay somebody to develop it for you or ask kindly and wait till somebody else is motivated enough to do it. I will, but I see no reason not to air my grievances. Also, is specially hard to decide which branch is better, because branch A can have application X in a great shape, and application Y in a bad one, while in branch B the case might be the opposite. And having to go back one whole release of the whole software compilation just because one app has one annoying dependency is a little bit overkill, isn't it? Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3 programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries. Heck, just stop *kmail* from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Move on. kdepim 4.3 is gone. Given that KDE SC 4.5 might release with kdepim from 4.4 anyway extending kdepim 4.4 codebase lifetime to 1 year, beating dead horse (4.3) makes absolutely no sense. I recommend you to face reality here. Wow. Software is dying faster and faster. These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as please make sure KDE 4.4 is ready for stable. My post was KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. All the replies have been too bad, we are going to release it anyway. Don't you see that you always put yourself in the front in your rationales? They are mine. I can't speak for others. YOU run a dozen of DB servers, I'm not the only person that does. Most users have a SQLite datatbase they don't even know about. People that develop or test web applications generally have to deal with a DB as well. In small shops, the test database often lives on the developers work system. YOU don't want another one, YOU don't trust MySQL, I'm not the only one with these concerns. YOU say KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. That is my opinion. Nothing objective and YOU assume that your truth is an ultimate one. Not really. I made objective statement about KMail based on observable facts. I also voiced an opinion that I based on that statement. Pet bugs are always RC to the reporter, but yet again, we need to face reality here. I've admitted this isn't really a RC bug. If YOU have so many problems with particular piece of software, look for better options or read the first part of this mail again. I have problems with a very narrow selection of selection of the software. Specifically, I don't want to need MySQL installed in order to use KMail effectively in Debian stable. There are a number of solutions to this. Newer Akonadi should run on non- MySQL data stores. Older KMail doesn't talk to Akonadi. Patches could be applied to either. Stable could include software from multiple KDE releases, as has been done before. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM:
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
* On 2010 06 May 08:33 -0500, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote: Nate Bargmann wrote: Now that my system is poised to update to KDE 4.4, I think this is where I'll get off the train and let KDE go where it wants and I shall go elsewhere. Thanks for the fish. - Nate Free software is all about freedom: - developers are free to assign their time to whatever they see fit - other developers are free to fork code and use a given codebase - users are free to use the code - … or not. Please don't pander. I am well aware of the above as I also develop a bit of Free Software that is in Debian. You are free to choose whatever software fits you best. Your problem seems that Debian won't ship KDE 3.5 because nobody (so far) is interesting in doing the work. No ranting will change that (rather the opposite even). Problem? Sorry, no problem with Debian here from me. How you have inferred such is interesting as I've made no comment regarding the Debian KDE package team and their decisions (noting well that the team has almost no choice but to package what upstream makes available as current code). I'm making comments about one version of KDE versus another which is the same regardless of the distribution. I see two paths you can take : * change DE and stop ranting Sorry, bub, but you have me confused with someone else. I am not engaging in a rant of any sort but have merely stated my observations from using various versions of KDE and how it works or doesn't *for me* (I've noted that several times in this thread, in fact). The fact that you obviously dislike reading my opinion doesn't mean I have to listen to you telling me to shut up about it. * contribute and change the situation As a small time dev myself I can tell from that statement that you are not one as that is the fastest way to discourage contribution from the users of your software. Any dev that does believe that is on the fast track to irrelevancy, That's just IMHO. Funny, my comments have been strictly about the software. Your comments have been strictly about *me*. Interesting... - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506213500.gu28...@n0nb.us
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 23:48:43 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: But whether upstream software meets users' needs is out of Debian scope. There's a lot to consider, since Debian needs upstream's help in addressing bugs throughout the lifetime of stable, and that's easier to achieve with the latest release. But then again, stable needs to be usable on release day. Release early, release often is great for development, it is not so great for stability (both in lack of bugs and lack of change meanings). Sometimes the most recent release from upstream is not best for Debian stable. You missed my point completely. What is subjectively unusable for you, is perfectly usable for others and the other way round. Debian is not your personal distro, it strives to keep balance. And balance is towards 4.4 side you like it or not due to many factors. When Squeeze is released, KDE 4.5 may be in .3 or later patch release upstream so the point about the latest and greatest here is completely out-of-place. Now if at particular time upstream software does not meet your personal needs, you go and look for alternatives. You talk like kdepim 4.3 was flawless. But it wasn't! There is no place for software does not do X, remove it from stable discussions here. Just find another software/solution which does, develop it by yourself, pay somebody to develop it for you or ask kindly and wait till somebody else is motivated enough to do it. I will, but I see no reason not to air my grievances. Insisting that others do something (revert to kdepim 4.3) based solely on your personal grievances does not help productive communication. YOU run a dozen of DB servers, I'm not the only person that does. Most users have a SQLite datatbase they don't even know about. People that develop or test web applications generally have to deal with a DB as well. In small shops, the test database often lives on the developers work system. YOU don't want another one, YOU don't trust MySQL, I'm not the only one with these concerns. I've never said that you're the only one. I find myself in the odd position that I mostly share opinion with you about excessive explosion of DB server instances on the desktop but I still can't help myself to argue. You started this off on a wrong foot by demanding to accommodate to your needs. YOU say KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. That is my opinion. Nothing objective and YOU assume that your truth is an ultimate one. Not really. I made objective statement about KMail based on observable facts. I also voiced an opinion that I based on that statement. What facts? That kdepim/kmail needs akonadi? That's hardly news. Akonadi integration is not stable enough? There is still time to improve it. That's what Ana's blog was about. If YOU have so many problems with particular piece of software, look for better options or read the first part of this mail again. I have problems with a very narrow selection of selection of the software. Specifically, I don't want to need MySQL installed in order to use KMail effectively in Debian stable. It is not like every mail client on the market suddenly needs MySQL. Actually, kmail is probably unique in this area. There are a number of solutions to this. Newer Akonadi should run on non- MySQL data stores. Older KMail doesn't talk to Akonadi. Patches could be applied to either. Stable could include software from multiple KDE releases, as has been done before. What I tried to say to you all this time, if Akonadi renders Kmail unusable to you, switch the client! Akonadi by itself is not a bug, it is not going away! Take it or switch to something else, simple as that. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 16:44:26 you wrote: On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 23:48:43 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: But whether upstream software meets users' needs is out of Debian scope. There's a lot to consider, since Debian needs upstream's help in addressing bugs throughout the lifetime of stable, and that's easier to achieve with the latest release. But then again, stable needs to be usable on release day. Release early, release often is great for development, it is not so great for stability (both in lack of bugs and lack of change meanings). Sometimes the most recent release from upstream is not best for Debian stable. You missed my point completely. What is subjectively unusable for you, is perfectly usable for others and the other way round. Debian is not your personal distro, it strives to keep balance. And balance is towards 4.4 side you like it or not due to many factors. When Squeeze is released, KDE 4.5 may be in .3 or later patch release upstream so the point about the latest and greatest here is completely out-of-place. Lenny didn't have KDE package from a single upstream release. It's not like the choice is all of KDE SC 4.3, all of KDE SC 4.4, or all of KDE SC 4.5. Debian could release a Squeeze that has software from any or all of those. (Or none, I suppose, but no one here wants to consider that.) I wasn't making a don't release the latest-and-greatest argument. I was making a release the best-and-brightest argument. If certain things in KDE SC 4.4 aren't release quality, use the version from KDE SC 4.3 or KDE SC 4.5. Now if at particular time upstream software does not meet your personal needs, you go and look for alternatives. You talk like kdepim 4.3 was flawless. But it wasn't! There is no place for software does not do X, remove it from stable discussions here. Where is that appropriate, because it *should* be discussed somewhere. Just find another software/solution which does, develop it by yourself, pay somebody to develop it for you or ask kindly and wait till somebody else is motivated enough to do it. I will, but I see no reason not to air my grievances. Insisting that others do something (revert to kdepim 4.3) based solely on your personal grievances does not help productive communication. I'm not insisting. I'm asking. I'm raising an issue that I have, and that I know is shared by at least a few other users. Reverting to KDEPIM 4.3 is an option, as is shipping an Akonadi that doesn't require MySQL. I know KDEPIM 4.3 works in a mostly KDE SC 4.4 environment (that's my current setup). I'll bet that pre-Akonadi-integration KMail could work with the rest of KDEPIM 4.4. There are a lot of ways to address my issue, and I don't *demand* that you address it at all. I am trying to argue that it's worth the work to make sure stable isn't burdened with a KMail that depends on MySQL. I think that's appropriate discussion for this list. Technically, I'm not even a member of the group I'm advocating for. Currently, I run a *very* mixed system. I would *like* to move back to being a user of Debian stable; I find the lack of change comforting. If KMail in Squeeze requires MySQL, I'll just keep my 4.3.x package until Sid gets a version that doesn't require MySQL, but I'd prefer to be able to use Squeeze without mixing in KDE packages from testing/Sid. I should have some time to pitch in and help before and after the freeze date. What can I do to make sure KMail doesn't need Akonadi when Squeeze is released? I've been told that back-porting the Akonadi/PostgreSQL patches is unlikely to help. I'm not averse to helping, but I don't have lots of time -- a few evenings a week at most. I'm not unable to help, but I'm not too familiar with Debian packging of the KDE SC 4.x code case -- I can read/write all the computer languages involved, though. You started this off on a wrong foot by demanding to accommodate to your needs. Please is not a demand last time I checked. I think that KMail requiring MySQL to function in Debian stable is a problem. I request that the Qt/KDE packaging team take steps to ensure that Debian stable users are not stranded with that situation for the lifetime of stable. I know that the volunteers that make up the Qt/KDE team have the last say and I don't pretend that I have any right or privilege to force them to do something. I'm voicing an opinion that I hope someone will act on. I'm trying to come up with ideas that are less bad as we continue the discussion. Shipping KDE SC 4.5 with Squeeze would likely be a nightmare. Shipping KDE SC 4.3 with Squeeze might even be worse. Picking and choosing the correct version(s) of specific applications to include in Squeeze seems not-so-bad, since MOST of KDE SC 4.4.3 seems pretty good. Shipping Akonadi/SQLite (which seems to be in the works upstream) or Akonadi/PostgreSQL (which
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thu May 6 2010 15:59:39 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I think that KMail requiring MySQL to function in Debian stable is a problem. I request that the Qt/KDE packaging team take steps to ensure that Debian stable users are not stranded with that situation for the lifetime of stable. I'm curious. When I install MySQL on a Lenny server it thereafter automatically starts the global /var/lib/mysql MySQL server at boot time. I thought Akonadi was intended to use a private MySQL server process running in each users' home directory and started as needed. (Maybe I misunderstood.) Does installing KDE cause a global /var/lib/mysql MySQL server to run on each workstation, even when nobody is logged in? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061633.47357.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On 2010-05-07 Mike Bird wrote: I'm curious. When I install MySQL on a Lenny server it thereafter automatically starts the global /var/lib/mysql MySQL server at boot time. I thought Akonadi was intended to use a private MySQL server process running in each users' home directory and started as needed. (Maybe I misunderstood.) Does installing KDE cause a global /var/lib/mysql MySQL server to run on each workstation, even when nobody is logged in? Not anymore, but it used to be that case. Since http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=548419 was resolved, the dependency is on mysql-server-core(-5.1) and not on mysql-server(-5.1) anymore. HTH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005070208.49583.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thu May 6 2010 17:08:48 Diederik de Haas wrote: On 2010-05-07 Mike Bird wrote: Does installing KDE cause a global /var/lib/mysql MySQL server to run on each workstation, even when nobody is logged in? Not anymore, but it used to be that case. Since http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=548419 was resolved, the dependency is on mysql-server-core(-5.1) and not on mysql-server(-5.1) anymore. Thank you Diederik. Your answer saved me a lot of time. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061717.26953.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote: Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable, Squeeze. Please, please, don't do this. In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but it falls under new feature so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line. For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try 4.0). I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4. Actually, I like most of KDE 4.4 and am currently using it for day-to-day work. I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.) Please don't force an Akonadi-enabled PIM suite on stable users before they are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than MySQL. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 04:21:15PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote: Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable, Squeeze. Please, please, don't do this. In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail - Akonadi - mysql-server). In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but it falls under new feature so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line. For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try 4.0). I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4. Actually, I like most of KDE 4.4 and am currently using it for day-to-day work. I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.) Please don't force an Akonadi-enabled PIM suite on stable users before they are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than MySQL. KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here with the freeze happening around the summer *before* 4.5 is out. Good news is you have at least a couple of months to develop a patch for this. ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100505215835.ga28...@ana.debian.net
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
El Miércoles, 5 de Mayo de 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. escribió: In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but it falls under new feature so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line. For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try 4.0). I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4. 4.5 won't be ready on time, and it's almost impossible to go back to 4.3 (it would require raising an epoch, do a really complicated transition, and lots, lots, lots of work). Debian packagers don't have that much time to spend on packaging (they are volunteers after all), and hardly they can do decisions about which particular branch is better. They have to package the last one which has been released, unless has been released very soon and there is no time for testing. Also, is specially hard to decide which branch is better, because branch A can have application X in a great shape, and application Y in a bad one, while in branch B the case might be the opposite. And having to go back one whole release of the whole software compilation just because one app has one annoying dependency is a little bit overkill, isn't it? -- Alex (a.k.a. suy) | GPG ID 0x0B8B0BC2 http://barnacity.net/ | http://disperso.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060007.16669@badopi.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wednesday 05 May 2010 16:58:35 you wrote: On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 04:21:15PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote: Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable, Squeeze. Please don't force an Akonadi-enabled PIM suite on stable users before they are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than MySQL. KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here with the freeze happening around the summer *before* 4.5 is out. Good news is you have at least a couple of months to develop a patch for this. Would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream will not apply it to the 4.4.x line. Upstream is already in the process of getting this done for the 4.5 release. What about shipping KDEPIM 4.3.x? It works fine with KDEBASE 4.4.x. Also, what happened to freezing when appropriate (when it's done)? Stable users don't want a half-baked OS. Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 00:54:06] On Wednesday 05 May 2010 16:58:35 you wrote: On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 04:21:15PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Wednesday 05 May 2010 15:24:49 Ana Guerrero wrote: Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable, Squeeze. Please don't force an Akonadi-enabled PIM suite on stable users before they are provided with an Akonadi that can use something other than MySQL. KDE 4.4 is the current stable release, there is not much more options here with the freeze happening around the summer *before* 4.5 is out. Good news is you have at least a couple of months to develop a patch for this. Would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream will not apply it to the 4.4.x line. Upstream is already in the process of getting this done for the 4.5 release. What about shipping KDEPIM 4.3.x? It works fine with KDEBASE 4.4.x. Also, what happened to freezing when appropriate (when it's done)? Stable users don't want a half-baked OS. Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me. How does having a kdepim that depends on mysql declare kde as broken? Sure, many oppose to that dependency, but it works, doesn't it? (at least here it does; better than the version from 4.3) Regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060053.06246.schwarz...@gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.) ... Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me. How many users have postgres installed on their desktop? Do you complain just because `ps aux | grep mysqld` returns something and you can't stand it or you have any real issues with it? -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite installed.) ... Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me. How many users have postgres installed on their desktop? Do you complain just because `ps aux | grep mysqld` returns something and you can't stand it or you have any real issues with it? I have real issues with having to spare the disk space and RAM on my laptop for it. PostgreSQL is for work; I don't get much choice about running that. I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my data. UPS or not. My email is fairly important for me -- I am probably in KMail only slightly less than I am in a source code editor. When I'm testing or deploying updates, I spend *more* time in KMail. Yes. I agree. The kmail - mysql-server dependency is not actually an RC bug, for Debian. It is for me, but I run an exotic mixed system anyway, so I'll figure *something* out. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:07:16 Alejandro Exojo wrote: El Miércoles, 5 de Mayo de 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. escribió: In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but it falls under new feature so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line. For me, KDE 4.4 is the most broken KDE release since 4.1 (I didn't try 4.0). I'd rather have 4.3.x in Squeeze than 4.4. 4.5 won't be ready on time, and it's almost impossible to go back to 4.3 (it would require raising an epoch, do a really complicated transition, and lots, lots, lots of work). Debian packagers don't have that much time to spend on packaging (they are volunteers after all), and hardly they can do decisions about which particular branch is better. They have to package the last one which has been released, unless has been released very soon and there is no time for testing. Stable is going to be with those users for at least a year, probably more. They deserve more than whatever upstream wants to throw at the wall this week. Also, is specially hard to decide which branch is better, because branch A can have application X in a great shape, and application Y in a bad one, while in branch B the case might be the opposite. And having to go back one whole release of the whole software compilation just because one app has one annoying dependency is a little bit overkill, isn't it? Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3 programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries. Heck, just stop *kmail* from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as please make sure KDE 4.4 is ready for stable. My post was KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. All the replies have been too bad, we are going to release it anyway. /saddened -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wednesday 05 May 2010, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 4.3, this is not true. From what I hear on upstream mailing lists, this won't be true in 4.5. Upstream is already aware and working on the issue, but it falls under new feature so it won't be included in the 4.4.x line. Do you have a pointer to the discussion? As far as the safety of your data is concerned, none of your emails are stored in MySQL (yet). Mail storage is still in the file system, Akonadi is only used for contacts. That said, I'd be much happier myself without having to run yet another database server on my machine. Right now there are global instances of PostgreSQL and MySQL (personal and for work); on top of that, for each logged-in user, Akonadi runs a private MySQL server as well as a virtuoso server. Incidentally, virtuoso is a SQL database in its own right, persumably fully capable of completing supplanting MySQL in this case. Michael -- Michael Schuerig mailto:mich...@schuerig.de http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060148.32290.mich...@schuerig.de
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wed May 5 2010 15:53:05 Frederik Schwarzer wrote: How does having a kdepim that depends on mysql declare kde as broken? Sure, many oppose to that dependency, but it works, doesn't it? (1) It reportedly breaks home directories stored on NFS servers. (2) It's such a bad idea that KDE is rushing to remove it. (3) Does Debian really want to implement robust migration both to MySQL (for Squeeze) and then out of MySQL (for Squeeze+1)? --Mike Bird P.S. Any chance that Squeeze will support Trinity? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005051713.19979.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On 2010-05-05, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net wrote: I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my data. = UPS or not. Then luckily you don't have to. The only data that mysql is *storing* (as opposed to caching) is data it still haven't been able to sync with the world. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnhu44m5.rvp.nos...@sshway.ssh.pusling.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: Also, what happened to freezing when appropriate (when it's done)? Stable users don't want a half-baked OS. Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me. I agree. Sam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4be22ef2.3000...@net153.net
