Re: preset bookmarks
Achim Bohnet wrote:
...
Hi Ivan,
$kdehome/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/ tree was the old bookmark stuff with
*.desktop and/or *.kdelnk (?). If bookmarks.xml does not exist a new one
is generated from them. So if you copy a default
bookmarks.xml file and someone that used KDE 2.1 and start KDE 2.0 for the
first time, he/she only sees 'your' bookmarks but not his/her old bookmarks.
...
Hey, this gives me a smart idea for doing this:
1. In /etc/kde2/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/default/ place
old-format bookmarks as conffiles.
2. In the script that does the conversion from old format
to new format (probably when that user first starts the
new Konquerer version), or in some script executed
before that, create a symlink from
.kde/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/default to
/etc/kde2/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/default.
3. When Konquerer first starts for a user who has never used
Konquerer, the conversion process will automagically
include the default bookmarks based on the belief that
they are old user bookmarks needing conversion.
4. When Konquerer first starts for a user who has used an
older version of Konquerer, the same will happen.
5. When Konquerer is started by a user who has run a
new-format Konquerer before, the new bookmarks are not
included or updated). Too bad really.
I have two other ideas:
Idea A:
In a seperate or non-kde package, include just the following
files (plus any cruft required by policy)
/usr/share/debian-links/links.txt
/usr/share/debian-links/index.html
/usr/share/debian-links/kde2-format.xml
/usr/share/debian-links/kde1/directory-structure...
/use/share/debian-links/netscape-format.html
each file would contain the same recommended
Debian-related links independent of the users choice of
browser or Desktop. Maintainance could be transfered to
someone unrelated to KDE.
links.txt is the source file, the maintainer of each
browser provides a simple script for generating his
specific format from it. Normally, these scripts would
be used only as a build-dependency for the debian-links
package, but they may be useful to people porting
bookmark links in general.
Example: For Netscape, the script might go like this
(not tested!)
# Awk script
BEGIN { print Netscape standard beginning; }
END { print Netscape standard end }
/^#/ { next }
/^[ \t]*$/ { next }
$1 == dirup { print /DLp; next }
{ title = substr($0, index( , $0) + 2); }
$1 == dir { print DTH3 title /HT\nDLp; next }
{print DTA HREF=\ $1 \ ADDDATE= title /A }
This presumes a links.txt like this
# comment line
# blank lines are ignored
# all fields are seperated by exactly one space to
#facilitate use of standard text utilities
# all standard links go in Debian-Defaults
# directory names should be valid hostnames, just a-zA-Z0-9-
dir Debian-Defaults
http://www.debian.org Debian home page
http://www.linux.org Linux Online
# KDE is a subdir of Debian-Defaults
dir KDE
http://www.kde.net KDE home
http://www.tdyc.com Nice guys
dirup
# And so is GNOME
dir GNOME
http://www.gnome.whatever/somedir Gnome home page
dirup
dirup
# end of file
To facilitate mechanical parsing, the file should be
restricted to a few specific tag types and specific
line feed placements, even though these restrictions
are not required by HTML.
Idea B:
UTSL!
Modify the bookmark loading code inside KDE to support
a file or directory of system-wide bookmarks, which is
always loaded along with the per-user bookmarks. Then
provide a default such file as a conffile. I am sure
a lot of other people could use the feature, not just
in Debian.
While you are at it, allow at least 3 system-wide files,
which are merged implicitly at load time.
One provided by KDE and maintained by KDE
One provided by the distribution and maintained by the
distribution (in this case a symlink to
/usr/share/debian-links)
One provided by the sysadmin, which can survive upgrades
to the standard links. This could contain e.g.
http://ourcampus.edu or http://internalserver.internal
Note that I am not proposing anything too complex,
If the structure is a file or directory per bookmark
folder, simply include 3 symlinks in the default
per user dir contents. If the structure is a single
file an implicit in memory concatenation of 4 files
and an implicit splitting at save time should do nicely.
In either case, editing system-wide bookmarks is
implicitly persistent if and only if the user successfully
writes to the system-wide file (independent of how the file
system decides that: root or not root, file mode bits,
read-only mounts, ACLs, the code doesn't care it just
ignores save errors).
--
This message is hastily written, please ignore any unpleasant
wordings,
do not consider it a binding commitment, even if its phrasing may
indicate so. Its contents may be deliberately or accidentally
untrue.
Trademarks and other things belong to their owners, if any.
Re: preset bookmarks
On Monday 09 July 2001 23:39, Jens Benecke wrote: On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 06:01:31PM -0600, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: /etc/skel is not the solution...the solution must end up being in /etc/kde2 How do you know that 'old' users want the file at all? Or that they don't Same as with all new features: You (or the sysadmin) updates the package so you (or the sysadmin) 'asked for' the feature ;) already have bookmarks and probably do NOT want the system wide ones inserted? Image a solution for the debian bookmarks like the netscape booksmarks. Just switch it off if you don't like it. Achim -- Jens Benecke http://www.hitchhikers.de/ - Die kostenlose Mitfahrzentrale für ganz Europa -- To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: preset bookmarks
On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ... uhhhBruce...keep up with the discussion. You mean I've missed something, then went off half-cocked... sigh Sorry for any undue consternation I may have precipitated. - Bruce
Re: preset bookmarks
On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Jens Benecke wrote: On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 05:51:36PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: /etc is just simply the wrong place Well, I don't really agree. sysadmins might want to customize the default bookmarks for new accounts, and I would be extremely angry when those get overwritten during an upgrade. Sorry, I should have been clearer, /etc/kde2 is wrong... Ivan, How about the /etc/skel/... ...does what we want. Setting up a default .kde and putting it into /etc/skel has been on my todo list for awhile now, but since this is a single real-user machine I've had no real pressure to do it (and KDE's default isn't too bad). - Bruce
Re: preset bookmarks
On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:46:39PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Jens Benecke wrote: On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 05:51:36PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: /etc is just simply the wrong place Well, I don't really agree. sysadmins might want to customize the default bookmarks for new accounts, and I would be extremely angry when those get overwritten during an upgrade. Sorry, I should have been clearer, /etc/kde2 is wrong... I totally disagree. It's KDE specific and therefore if it's going to be a conffile it should go into the kde area. Ivan, How about the /etc/skel/... ...does what we want. Setting up a default .kde and putting it into /etc/skel has been on my todo list for awhile now, but since this is a single real-user machine I've had no real pressure to do it (and KDE's default isn't too bad). no it does not. it only does part of what we want. However it only takes care of new users...so all those existing users who have never used kde before will not be able to take advantage of this. So it is not the correct solution. Ivan -- Ivan E. Moore II [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snowcrash.tdyc.com GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD GPG Fingerprint=F2FC 69FD 0DA0 4FB8 225E 27B6 7645 8141 90BC E0DD
Re: preset bookmarks
On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:46:39PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Jens Benecke wrote: On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 05:51:36PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: .. I totally disagree. It's KDE specific and therefore if it's going to be a conffile it should go into the kde area. Or you can look at it this way: /etc is for system-wide defaults, *except* /etc/skel which is for per-user defaults. Unless you are planning on setting up a system-wide bookmark file that every user will see, independent of and in addition to fiddling with a USER's .kde directory... ...we are gonna have to just disagree. Ivan, How about the /etc/skel/... ...does what we want. Setting up a default .kde and putting it into /etc/skel has been on my todo list for awhile now, but since this is a single real-user machine I've had no real pressure to do it (and KDE's default isn't too bad). no it does not. it only does part of what we want. However it only takes care of new users...so all those existing users who have never used kde before will not be able to take advantage of this. So it is not the correct solution. Of course it is not the complete solution, there is no way around scripting something to look after pre-existing KDE users (I assumed that is what this whole exercise was about). kde2 vs. skel is a side issue... but it may well turn out to be important if it means the difference between a simple system that requires setup only the first time it is installed, or something more complex that requires continued maintenance. I don't know enough about how KDE sets up an initial $HOME/.kde to determine which is more plausible, and am content top leave it in your capable hands (after voicing and defending my concerns, of course :) - Bruce
Re: preset bookmarks
On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 05:24:01PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:46:39PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Jens Benecke wrote: On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 05:51:36PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: .. I totally disagree. It's KDE specific and therefore if it's going to be a conffile it should go into the kde area. Or you can look at it this way: /etc is for system-wide defaults, *except* /etc/skel which is for per-user defaults. Unless you are planning on setting up a system-wide bookmark file that every user will see, independent of and in addition to fiddling with a USER's .kde directory... ...we are gonna have to just disagree. uhhhBruce...keep up with the discussion. let me state this again. this IS for system-wide bookmarks or first time user settings. Either would be acceptable. /etc/skel is for per-user defaults yes...however only handles those users who have not even been created. This is good, but only handles 1/3 of the problem. I have submitted a bug to KDE to address the true needs which is a sysytem-wide bookmarks file that if it exists would be included into the Bookmarks menu in the same way the Netscape Bookmarks are. no it does not. it only does part of what we want. However it only takes care of new users...so all those existing users who have never used kde before will not be able to take advantage of this. So it is not the correct solution. Of course it is not the complete solution, there is no way around scripting something to look after pre-existing KDE users (I assumed that is what this whole exercise was about). yes there is a way around it...and that is what this whole exercise was about. /etc/skel is not the solution...the solution must end up being in /etc/kde2 Ivan -- Ivan E. Moore II [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snowcrash.tdyc.com GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD GPG Fingerprint=F2FC 69FD 0DA0 4FB8 225E 27B6 7645 8141 90BC E0DD
Re: preset bookmarks
So maybe something like this is the way to go. Add something like this to /etc/kde2/kde2.sh konq_dir=$kdehome/share/apps/konqueror if [ ! -d $konq_dir ]; then mkdir -p $konq_dir cp /etc/kde2/bookmarks.xml $konp_dir/ fi Sorry to followup myself, but the '! -d' check is too simple. One has to check that $kdehome/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/ is empty and, if bookmark.xml exists, that it's equal to '!DOCTYPE xbel xbel/' before one copies a default bookmarks.xml. what happens if $kdehome/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/ isn't empty and $kdehome/share/apps/konqueror/bookmarks.xml is created by the kde2 script? hmm...guess I should just go see... :) -- Ivan E. Moore II [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snowcrash.tdyc.com GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD GPG Fingerprint=F2FC 69FD 0DA0 4FB8 225E 27B6 7645 8141 90BC E0DD
Re: preset bookmarks
On Wednesday 04 July 2001 09:15, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: So maybe something like this is the way to go. Add something like this to /etc/kde2/kde2.sh konq_dir=$kdehome/share/apps/konqueror if [ ! -d $konq_dir ]; then mkdir -p $konq_dir cp /etc/kde2/bookmarks.xml $konp_dir/ fi Sorry to followup myself, but the '! -d' check is too simple. One has to check that $kdehome/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/ is empty and, if bookmark.xml exists, that it's equal to '!DOCTYPE xbel xbel/' before one copies a default bookmarks.xml. what happens if $kdehome/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/ isn't empty and $kdehome/share/apps/konqueror/bookmarks.xml is created by the kde2 script? Hi Ivan, $kdehome/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/ tree was the old bookmark stuff with *.desktop and/or *.kdelnk (?). If bookmarks.xml does not exist a new one is generated from them. So if you copy a default bookmarks.xml file and someone that used KDE 2.1 and start KDE 2.0 for the first time, he/she only sees 'your' bookmarks but not his/her old bookmarks. Achim hmm...guess I should just go see... :) -- Ivan E. Moore II [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snowcrash.tdyc.com GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD GPG Fingerprint=F2FC 69FD 0DA0 4FB8 225E 27B6 7645 8141 90BC E0DD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: preset bookmarks
On Wednesday 04 July 2001 14:12, Jens Benecke wrote: On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 02:19:22PM -0600, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? how about: just put it in /etc/skel/.kde/ you won't overwrite old ones and don't have to care about scripts. How about: Add a 'Debian.desktop' /usr/share/apps/kdesktop/DesktopLinks/ and let this start 'konqueror /etc/kde2/debian-links.html' (Unfortuntely konqueror /etc/kde2/booksmarks.xml gives an empty page) Advantages: o User can easily remove it. o Contents can be updated without modifying stuff in home dirs (a no no according to policy). o works also with all browser as long as they are logged into kde Achim -- Jens Benecke http://www.hitchhikers.de/ - Die kostenlose Mitfahrzentrale für ganz Europa -- To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: preset bookmarks
http://www.lwn.net must have http://freshmeat.net/ditto http://www.linuxdoc.org/ http://www.fsf.org And the obvious debian etc . . . tatah On Tuesday 03 July 2001 13:19, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan -- Jaye Inabnit\ARS ke6sls/TELE: USA-707-442-6579\/A GNU-Debian linux user Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WEB: http://www.qsl.net/ke6sls ICQ: 12741145 If it's stupid, but works, it ain't stupid. SHOUT JUST FOR FUN. Free software, in a free world, for a free spirit. Please Support freedom!
Re: preset bookmarks
There is a nice selection in the debianized netscape install. Just enough for a newbie to find a few things but not overwhelming On Tuesday 03 July 2001 13:19, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan
Re: preset bookmarks
On Wednesday 04 July 2001 11:34, Jaye Inabnit ke6sls wrote: http://www.lwn.net must have http://freshmeat.net/ditto http://www.linuxdoc.org/ http://www.fsf.org May I also suggest http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net? And the obvious debian etc . . . tatah On Tuesday 03 July 2001 13:19, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan
Re: preset bookmarks
On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Achim Bohnet wrote: On Wednesday 04 July 2001 14:12, Jens Benecke wrote: On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 02:19:22PM -0600, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? how about: just put it in /etc/skel/.kde/ Ya, that'll catch new accounts on the machine... you won't overwrite old ones and don't have to care about scripts. ...but this leaves current KDE setups out in the cold (fine by me). How about: Add a 'Debian.desktop' /usr/share/apps/kdesktop/DesktopLinks/ and let this start 'konqueror /etc/kde2/debian-links.html' (Unfortuntely konqueror /etc/kde2/booksmarks.xml gives an empty page) Advantages: o User can easily remove it. o Contents can be updated without modifying stuff in home dirs (a no no according to policy). o works also with all browser as long as they are logged into kde /etc is just simply the wrong place Ivan, How about the /etc/skel/... thing, and instructions (maybe a script, eventually) on how to incorporate them into an existing bookmark file. Too bad keditbookmarks can't import its own format. - Bruce
preset bookmarks
ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan -- Ivan E. Moore II [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snowcrash.tdyc.com GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD GPG Fingerprint=F2FC 69FD 0DA0 4FB8 225E 27B6 7645 8141 90BC E0DD
Re: preset bookmarks
On Tuesday 03 July 2001 01:19 pm, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan I'll say the obvious one: kde.themes.org. Of course, my mind just went completely blank and I can't think of any others :-P Oh, take that back: dot.kde.org. *Now* I can't think of any others -- To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: preset bookmarks
On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 02:46:23PM -0700, David Bishop wrote: On Tuesday 03 July 2001 01:19 pm, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan I'll say the obvious one: kde.themes.org. Of course, my mind just went completely blank and I can't think of any others :-P Oh, take that back: dot.kde.org. *Now* I can't think of any others ok...let me rephrase this. I need to know *how* to do this. but now that you said this...submit your recommendations as well. :) Ivan -- Ivan E. Moore II [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snowcrash.tdyc.com GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD GPG Fingerprint=F2FC 69FD 0DA0 4FB8 225E 27B6 7645 8141 90BC E0DD
Re: preset bookmarks
On Tuesday 03 July 2001 02:25 pm, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 02:46:23PM -0700, David Bishop wrote: On Tuesday 03 July 2001 01:19 pm, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan I'll say the obvious one: kde.themes.org. Of course, my mind just went completely blank and I can't think of any others :-P Oh, take that back: dot.kde.org. *Now* I can't think of any others ok...let me rephrase this. I need to know *how* to do this. but now that you said this...submit your recommendations as well. :) Ivan After I got over the embarrasment, wouldn't this integrate nicely with the code that gets run now the first time someone logs in (to setup themes and stuff)? You can just append a call to copy over some default bookmarks.xml file from /usr/share/doc/konqy/. *shrug* Just don't look to me for the implementation *grin* Oh, and I still can't think of any other sites, well, except sluggy.com. *Everybody* should read sluggy. -- To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: preset bookmarks
On Tuesday 03 July 2001 23:25, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 02:46:23PM -0700, David Bishop wrote: On Tuesday 03 July 2001 01:19 pm, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan I'll say the obvious one: kde.themes.org. Of course, my mind just went completely blank and I can't think of any others :-P Oh, take that back: dot.kde.org. *Now* I can't think of any others ok...let me rephrase this. I need to know *how* to do this. I only found what does not work :( Obvious try was to create a /usr/share/apps/konqueror/bookmarks.xml and remove the one in ~/.kde. dcop bookmark interface has no (obviously) easy entry. So maybe something like this is the way to go. Add something like this to /etc/kde2/kde2.sh konq_dir=$kdehome/share/apps/konqueror if [ ! -d $konq_dir ]; then mkdir -p $konq_dir cp /etc/kde2/bookmarks.xml $konp_dir/ fi works only if konqueror was never started by this user. But to handle merging of the kde 2.0 and 2.1 bookmark formats, uhmm, ... Maybe someone has the time to try to play with konqueror.rc. Would be an elegant solution. but now that you said this...submit your recommendations as well. :) http://lists.debian.org/#debian-kde # or another link that lists debian-kde # specific infos But put them all in a 'Debian' bookmark folder so they are easy to delete if one does not like them :^) Achim Ivan
Re: preset bookmarks
On Wednesday 04 July 2001 00:51, Achim Bohnet wrote: On Tuesday 03 July 2001 23:25, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 02:46:23PM -0700, David Bishop wrote: On Tuesday 03 July 2001 01:19 pm, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: ok all you kde junkies...anyone know how I can setup a default bookmark list so that upon installation a user will have a few bookmarks (ie things like www.debian.org/debianplanet/etc...)? Ivan I'll say the obvious one: kde.themes.org. Of course, my mind just went completely blank and I can't think of any others :-P Oh, take that back: dot.kde.org. *Now* I can't think of any others ok...let me rephrase this. I need to know *how* to do this. I only found what does not work :( Obvious try was to create a /usr/share/apps/konqueror/bookmarks.xml and remove the one in ~/.kde. dcop bookmark interface has no (obviously) easy entry. So maybe something like this is the way to go. Add something like this to /etc/kde2/kde2.sh konq_dir=$kdehome/share/apps/konqueror if [ ! -d $konq_dir ]; then mkdir -p $konq_dir cp /etc/kde2/bookmarks.xml $konp_dir/ fi Sorry to followup myself, but the '! -d' check is too simple. One has to check that $kdehome/share/apps/kfm/bookmark/ is empty and, if bookmark.xml exists, that it's equal to '!DOCTYPE xbel xbel/' before one copies a default bookmarks.xml. Achim works only if konqueror was never started by this user. But to handle merging of the kde 2.0 and 2.1 bookmark formats, uhmm, ... Maybe someone has the time to try to play with konqueror.rc. Would be an elegant solution. but now that you said this...submit your recommendations as well. :) http://lists.debian.org/#debian-kde # or another link that lists debian-kde # specific infos But put them all in a 'Debian' bookmark folder so they are easy to delete if one does not like them :^) Achim Ivan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
