Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 31 ian 22, 10:57:04, Stephan Lachnit wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:38 AM Bill Allombert  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:13:19AM +0100, Stephan Lachnit wrote:
> > >
> > > Actually, just out of curiosity: the folder is called
> > > "wayland-sessions", but the files are all called "*.desktop". Are
> > > there other possibilities than "*.desktop", and if so what is the
> > > difference?
> >
> > .desktop is just a standard file format used to register applications
> > with desktop environment, see
> > 
> 
> Ah thanks! I somehow didn't expect it to be the same as the usual
> .desktop file format as for applications.
> 
> Then I agree on the "wayland-session" name. But maybe the description
> should remove the word "desktop" then.

Well, a more generic option would be "Wayland graphical session", though
it's a bit of a tautology :)

Would "Graphical session using the Wayland display protocol" be too
long?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Stephan Lachnit]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:38 AM Bill Allombert  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:13:19AM +0100, Stephan Lachnit wrote:
> >
> > Actually, just out of curiosity: the folder is called
> > "wayland-sessions", but the files are all called "*.desktop". Are
> > there other possibilities than "*.desktop", and if so what is the
> > difference?
>
> .desktop is just a standard file format used to register applications
> with desktop environment, see
> 

Ah thanks! I somehow didn't expect it to be the same as the usual
.desktop file format as for applications.

Then I agree on the "wayland-session" name. But maybe the description
should remove the word "desktop" then.

Regards,
Stephan

Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Bill Allombert]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:13:19AM +0100, Stephan Lachnit wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 3:55 PM Andrei POPESCU  
> wrote:
> >
> > On Du, 30 ian 22, 13:21:40, Stephan Lachnit wrote:
> > >
> > > I like the idea. Just another idea for the naming, about
> > > wayland-desktop-session?
> >
> > It's longer and Phosh is not exactly a "desktop" ;)
> 
> Right, but then the description "a Wayland desktop session" and the
> file location (/usr/share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop) is also a bit
> off, right? I guess this depends on how one defines "desktop" ;)
> 
> Actually, just out of curiosity: the folder is called
> "wayland-sessions", but the files are all called "*.desktop". Are
> there other possibilities than "*.desktop", and if so what is the
> difference?

.desktop is just a standard file format used to register applications
with desktop environment, see


I prefer wayland-session over wayland-desktop-session.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. 

Imagine a large red swirl here. 

Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Stephan Lachnit]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 3:55 PM Andrei POPESCU  wrote:
>
> On Du, 30 ian 22, 13:21:40, Stephan Lachnit wrote:
> >
> > I like the idea. Just another idea for the naming, about
> > wayland-desktop-session?
>
> It's longer and Phosh is not exactly a "desktop" ;)

Right, but then the description "a Wayland desktop session" and the
file location (/usr/share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop) is also a bit
off, right? I guess this depends on how one defines "desktop" ;)

Actually, just out of curiosity: the folder is called
"wayland-sessions", but the files are all called "*.desktop". Are
there other possibilities than "*.desktop", and if so what is the
difference? If yes, then maybe there is a point to make for
"wayland-desktop-session", else the shorter name is preferable of
course.

Regards,
Stephan

Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 30 ian 22, 13:21:40, Stephan Lachnit wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2022, 21:15 Simon McVittie,  wrote:
> >
> > According to `apt-file search`, it should initially be provided by these:
> >
> > gnome-session: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/gnome.desktop
> > phosh: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/phosh.desktop
> > plasma-workspace-wayland: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/plasmawayland.desktop
> > sway: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/sway.desktop
> > weston: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/weston.desktop
>
> I like the idea. Just another idea for the naming, about
> wayland-desktop-session?

It's longer and Phosh is not exactly a "desktop" ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Stephan Lachnit]

I like the idea. Just another idea for the naming, about
wayland-desktop-session?

Regards,
Stephan


On Sat, 29 Jan 2022, 21:15 Simon McVittie,  wrote:

> Package: debian-policy
> Version: 4.6.0.1
> Severity: wishlist
> X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
>
> GNOME's gdm3 and KDE's sddm both enumerate possible Wayland sessions in
> /usr/{,local/}share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop and make them available
> as desktop sessions that users can choose, in addition to listing the
> X11 sessions that they traditionally did.
>
> At the moment, installing gdm3 pulls in either gnome-session (a minimal
> GNOME desktop), or some sort of X11 thing (usually a session manager,
> but sometimes a window manager or an xterm), but it should ideally
> be possible to install gdm3 as a login prompt from which to launch a
> non-GNOME Wayland session like weston or sway.
>
> I propose this entry for virtual-package-names-list.yaml:
>
> - name: wayland-session
>   description: a Wayland desktop session
> (/usr/share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop)
>
> According to `apt-file search`, it should initially be provided by these:
>
> gnome-session: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/gnome.desktop
> phosh: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/phosh.desktop
> plasma-workspace-wayland: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/plasmawayland.desktop
> sway: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/sway.desktop
> weston: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/weston.desktop
>
> and perhaps also (I don't know how practical this one is for actual use):
>
> mir-demos: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/mir-shell.desktop
>
> Rationale for not using the names people are probably going to suggest:
>
> - wayland-compositor would be wrong, because it's too low-level. Some
>   Wayland compositors are a somewhat complete desktop environment in their
>   own right, but for example plasma-workspace-wayland and gnome-session
>   are larger components that merely *depend on* a Wayland compositor, plus
>   the additional components needed to get a practical desktop environment;
>   meanwhile, kwin-wayland and gnome-shell are Wayland compositors, but
>   are not desktop environments on their own.
>
> - wayland-session-manager seems like it would be misleading, because an X
>   session manager has specific functional expectations (XSMP) separating
>   it from an mere x-window-manager, but there's no such thing in Wayland.
>
> smcv
>
>

Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Sean Whitton]

Hello,

On Sat 29 Jan 2022 at 08:12PM GMT, Simon McVittie wrote:

> Package: debian-policy
> Version: 4.6.0.1
> Severity: wishlist
> X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
>
> GNOME's gdm3 and KDE's sddm both enumerate possible Wayland sessions in
> /usr/{,local/}share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop and make them available
> as desktop sessions that users can choose, in addition to listing the
> X11 sessions that they traditionally did.
>
> At the moment, installing gdm3 pulls in either gnome-session (a minimal
> GNOME desktop), or some sort of X11 thing (usually a session manager,
> but sometimes a window manager or an xterm), but it should ideally
> be possible to install gdm3 as a login prompt from which to launch a
> non-GNOME Wayland session like weston or sway.
>
> I propose this entry for virtual-package-names-list.yaml:
>
> - name: wayland-session
>   description: a Wayland desktop session 
> (/usr/share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop)
>
> According to `apt-file search`, it should initially be provided by these:
>
> gnome-session: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/gnome.desktop
> phosh: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/phosh.desktop
> plasma-workspace-wayland: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/plasmawayland.desktop
> sway: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/sway.desktop
> weston: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/weston.desktop
>
> and perhaps also (I don't know how practical this one is for actual use):
>
> mir-demos: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/mir-shell.desktop

Seems fine.  Just to confirm, the primary use case is so that if a
package providing wayland-session is installed, a display manager like
gdm3 won't try to install GNOME?

-- 
Sean Whitton


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Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Russ Allbery]

Simon McVittie  writes:

> GNOME's gdm3 and KDE's sddm both enumerate possible Wayland sessions in
> /usr/{,local/}share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop and make them available
> as desktop sessions that users can choose, in addition to listing the
> X11 sessions that they traditionally did.

> At the moment, installing gdm3 pulls in either gnome-session (a minimal
> GNOME desktop), or some sort of X11 thing (usually a session manager,
> but sometimes a window manager or an xterm), but it should ideally be
> possible to install gdm3 as a login prompt from which to launch a
> non-GNOME Wayland session like weston or sway.

> I propose this entry for virtual-package-names-list.yaml:

> - name: wayland-session
>   description: a Wayland desktop session 
> (/usr/share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop)

I trust Simon to understand the issues here and nothing about this jumps
out as a problem, so seconded.  This seems like an appropriate use of a
virtual package because this is a fairly broad-ranging interface that will
require coordination between separate packaging teams (such as the GNOME
and KDE teams).

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)  

Bug#1004522: debian-policy: Proposing new virtual package: wayland-session

[Simon McVittie]

Package: debian-policy
Version: 4.6.0.1
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-de...@lists.debian.org

GNOME's gdm3 and KDE's sddm both enumerate possible Wayland sessions in
/usr/{,local/}share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop and make them available
as desktop sessions that users can choose, in addition to listing the
X11 sessions that they traditionally did.

At the moment, installing gdm3 pulls in either gnome-session (a minimal
GNOME desktop), or some sort of X11 thing (usually a session manager,
but sometimes a window manager or an xterm), but it should ideally
be possible to install gdm3 as a login prompt from which to launch a
non-GNOME Wayland session like weston or sway.

I propose this entry for virtual-package-names-list.yaml:

- name: wayland-session
  description: a Wayland desktop session (/usr/share/wayland-sessions/*.desktop)

According to `apt-file search`, it should initially be provided by these:

gnome-session: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/gnome.desktop
phosh: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/phosh.desktop
plasma-workspace-wayland: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/plasmawayland.desktop
sway: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/sway.desktop
weston: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/weston.desktop

and perhaps also (I don't know how practical this one is for actual use):

mir-demos: /usr/share/wayland-sessions/mir-shell.desktop

Rationale for not using the names people are probably going to suggest:

- wayland-compositor would be wrong, because it's too low-level. Some
  Wayland compositors are a somewhat complete desktop environment in their
  own right, but for example plasma-workspace-wayland and gnome-session
  are larger components that merely *depend on* a Wayland compositor, plus
  the additional components needed to get a practical desktop environment;
  meanwhile, kwin-wayland and gnome-shell are Wayland compositors, but
  are not desktop environments on their own.

- wayland-session-manager seems like it would be misleading, because an X
  session manager has specific functional expectations (XSMP) separating
  it from an mere x-window-manager, but there's no such thing in Wayland.

smcv