Happy tenth anniversary!
Happy tenth anniversary, Debian! Jeroen Roovers
Re: swiss german keyboard config needed
Hi Frank
Ok, I am finally back! And thanks again for your answer!
On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 09:49, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > > Option "XkbSymbols" "de_CH+group(switch)"
> >
> > Ahh, well, I did (and YES, I did deactivate my .Xmodmap first), but,
> > uhhm, this has to be the so called make-fun-at-your-co-workers-option,
> > no? ;)
> >
> > But serious, the effect was quite interesting. No keys except the number
> > keys were working, not even the cursor keys, so I couldn't reach the
> > shell history to invoke xmodmap. And, well, which key would have been
> > supposed to be the Mode_switch? At least, alt didn't work either, I
> > still could reach only the number keys (and only these)..
>
> Erm, sorry. It's supposed to be:
>
> Option "XkbSymbols" "macintosh/us+macintosh/de_CH+group(switch)"
>
> Then to get the Mode_switch (at least on my US iBook) you have to get AltGr
> by
> pressing fn+. For me the right-hand alt key acts exactly the same
> as the left, so I have to press fn too. Check this using xev.
Well, it kind of worked. I could reach the third group via fn+alt (the
left one, I don't remember the right one), but, hmm, not all symbols
worked. For example, I could get [ (fn+alt+5), but I couldn't get ]
(fn+alt+6). { and } was impossible to reach too.
Strange enough, doing an xmodmap -pke revealed that the keys were mapped
to the ], {, }, etc. symbols as normal!! But they couldn't be produced!
> Look in the file /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/group for other switch options (it's
> easy to set the key to be AltGr, too.
>
> > > I don't know if there are differences for a Swiss keyboard.
> >
> > Dunno, but I guess not?! How to test?
>
> xev will tell you which X keycode and keysym is being sent for a keypress,
> but
> you'll need access to an Swiss external Apple keyboard to see the differences
> between them.
Ok, I guess I am of no help then for this particular issue.
--
Best wishes,
Andi
Re: Help with X using ATI pci card?
Just poked around in my 7500 Open Firmware with the card attached. The card is identified as a NexusGA. If it was an XClaim3D, the firmware would have said, because they use that card as an example on the Apple Firmware how-to's. Just another clue. -- wcrowshaw
Re: gprs, bluetooth and t68i
OoO En cette soirée bien amorcée du vendredi 15 août 2003, vers 22:48, Jean-Christophe Michel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> disait: > I'm trying to connect using gprs (in France) with debian unstable, > benh kernel last rsync vers + bluez + a t68i from SonyErikson phone. > Unfortunately i cannot go further than seeing the phone and its > services, > and trying to connect to the phone via /dev/rfcomm0 linked to channel > 1 (DUN) of the phone. I tried many ppp confs and i'm really unsure on > how to do this. > This phone works well on OSX (someone I know who uses the same phone > company). > When i do pon, i see the pppd process hanging just before ip > negociation.Phone is 'COnnecting...' forever. I am using it but via the serial cable. So if your problem is bluetooth related, I cannot help you. -- BOFH excuse #58: high pressure system failure
Re: Help with X using ATI pci card?
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, W. Crowshaw wrote: > On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 11:21:43AM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote: > > On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 23:17, W. Crowshaw wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 06:28:46PM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 23:17, William Crowshaw wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I would really like to get 2 monitors going [...] > > > > > > > > The atimisc driver doesn't support this yet. > > > > > > > Yep, I know. The card docs say that this is > > > impossible as well. No, I had intended to run > > > monitor off of /chaos/control (the 7500 built in > > > video) and the other, larger, monitor over the ati > > > card. > > > > This might work, using the fbdev driver for the control. > > > Exactly what I was thinking, using the much improved > controlfb... > > > > > Additionally, I thought I would say that, even > > > though I cannot get a console or a X session using > > > this ati connected to my Dell monitor, this isn't > > > a problem with the card itself because 1) it behaves > > > great on the MacOS and 2) I have three of these > > > cards and they all behave the same way on X. > > > > > > Any ideas, or should I just sell the cards on e-bay? > > > > I'd try a newer XFree86 version first. > > > Really? Say it isn't so. Upgrading to debian > unstable isn't very enticing and damn if I want to > build another app from scratch. My debian system is > starting to look like gentoo. Before I made the > plunge, could you or someone else give me any > assurances that it would be worth the trouble? I have a similar card (ATI XClaim3D - with both the Mac and VGA ports) and have been using it with a pretty much vanilla Woody distrubtion (except for the kernel). When I use this kernel, I have to use the "novideo" option (or whatever the equivalent is with BootX), and then to get X working, my device section looks like: Section "Device" Identifier "ATI Rage" Driver "ati" BusID "PCI:0:14:0" Option "UseFBDev" "true" EndSection One other point to note is that you need to get the exact frequencies for your monitor to be able to use it in X. I used the generic Woody configuration, but it would not let me use my AppleVision at 1280x1024 with this card, which worked perfectly well in MacOS. It was only when I got the monitor frequencies from Apple's Spec listings and put them into XF86Config-4 did X work like I wanted it to. cheers vinai -- To get my real e-mail address, replace "4" with "for" in the above address Vinai "I can't understand people who hate other people based on things like race, religion, or sexual orientation. When you really do get to know a person, aren't there so many more worthwhile reasons for despising them ?" Dennis Miller
Re: Finnish X11 keymap on iMac?
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Frank Murphy wrote: > > Both console and X are configured to use PC / standard / finnish-latin1, > > since I have no use for Apple's own mapping. > ... > > All USB keyboards I currently have are meant to be Mac keyboards (whatever > > usbmgr reported upon connection is included in parentheses): > > By Mac keyboard, you seem to mean USB keyboard. No, I mean Mac keyboard, as in keycaps layout. > The keys of the third-party > keyboards are in the standard PC position, right? They are in the Mac position, since they are meant as replacements for the narrow iMac keyboard by Apple. > > 1) original narrow iMac keyboard (Alps Electric?M2452 M2452 on usb1:14.0). > > 2) Macalley (ALCOR macally on usb1:6.0) > > 3) noname (ALCOR STRONG MAN KBD HUB on usb1:11.0) > > > > On the Apple (Alps) keyboard, <> and §½ are correct ... > > That's wierd that you have the system configured as PC / standard / > finnish-latin1, but the keymaps are correct for the Apple key layout. But, if > the only problem with this keyboard is the meta-key problem you explained > earlier, the simple xmodmap change below should fix it (without disabling > deadkeys, of course). Inverted (smaller/greater/pipe) and (paragraph/one-half/degree), plus wrong metakeys. In essence, the Option/apple keys are treated as a Windows keys, even though the physical position is different than on PC. > > Meanwhile, both the noname and Macalley, being based upon that same Alcor > > chipset, behave similarly, with two keys being inverted and with some meta > > keys being at the wrong place. > > So this is the same wierd behavior as before: the keyboards have keys in the > PC position, and the configuration is for PC, but these keys are mapping to > the Apple position. I wonder if this is a lower level thing. The console keymaps work exactly as expected, at least using the iMac keyboard. > What is your keyboard InputDevice in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4? Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "keyboard" Option "CoreKeyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "fi" EndSection > I'd be interested to know what the linux scancodes and X keycodes are for > these keys on i386 Linux. Are you able to try these on a PC? If so, try these > commands on both: > > # from the console, then press the <>| and §½¶ keys > $ showkey -s > $ showkey -k See attached files. > # Also, in X, press these keys with the keyboard in the xev window > $ xev Haven't found any way to paste the output. :( > > > > > Before, you had said the following: > > > > > > On a Finnish/Swedish early iMac with the narrow USB keyboard, xev > > > > > > says: > > > > > > > > > > > > Control_L,Alt_L,Super_L,space,Multikey. > > > > > > > > > > > > What it should be (as far as Mac OS keymaps and console-tools go): > > > > > > > > > > > > Control_L,Mode_switch,Alt_L,space,(?). > > > > > > > > > > I haven't seen a Finnish keyboard, but I assume that the keys are > > > > > physically marked with "ctrl", "alt & option", "Apple-logo/command", > > > > > "space bar", "Multikey". Is this true? > > > > > > > > They are: ctrl, alt/option, apple, spacebar, apple. > > I realize something else from another keyboard discussion. Mac OS uses Alt to > allow some characters to be typed, but Windows and X ususally use AltGr. > Unfortunately, you don't have a right Alt key on the Apple keyboard. As you > already said, that makes it impossible to have the exact same keymap on your > i386 and ppc boxes. Would it make sense to remap the left Apple-logo key to > Mode_Switch instead of Multikey? The console-data mac-usb-fi keymap uses the Left_alt as Mode_switch and makes the left Apple key into a Left_alt, which works very well. > > Indeed. Anyhow, just to clarify, what I'm trying to achieve is to get the > > exact same (PC) keyboard layout on all my Debian hardware. For obvious > > reasons, this cannot work using the narrow iMac keyboard, since some > > keycaps are missing, but both Alcor chipset-based keyboards have, for all > > intents and purpose, the exact same layout as any PC keyboard, the only > > difference being the power key. > > Again, it's strange that you have X configured as PC, but it's giving you the > Apple layout. ...and consistantly so, at that. I would have though that the unified Linux keycodes would have uniformized that. -- Martin-Éric Racine http://www.pp.fishpool.fi/~q-funk/ 0x9c 0x56 0xd6 0x36 0x36 0x56 0xd6 0xb6 0xe0 0x38 0x56 0xd6 0xe0 0xb8 0x29 0xa9 0x36 0x29 0xa9 0xb6 0xe0 0x38 0x29 0xa9 0xe0 0xb8 keycode 28 release keycode 86 press keycode 86 release keycode 54 press keycode 54 press keycode 86 press keycode 86 release keycode 54 release keycode 100 press keycode 100 press keycode 100 press keycode 100 press keycode 100 press keycode 100 press keycode 100
Re: Help with X using ATI pci card?
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:18:44 -0500 "W. Crowshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sorry I didn't follow the discussion... maybe this won't apply to your particuklar issue. However, if you have troubles getting an ATI XClaim 3D working with X, I can remember I had one working. The card was an ATI XCLaim 3D (Plus) with a Rage LT Pro Chipset. I had it working with a 4.2 version of the xserver using the 'ati' driver (which loaded atimisc, I think). I remember I had some problems with the display : the X server was running fine, but my monitor wouldn't show anything... I had to set the 'referenceclock' parameter to a special value. I posted my config to the list at that time, try looking in the archives. Again, sorry for the lack of details, but the machine doesn't run X anymore. I'll check to see if I have a backup of my config file somewhere. HTH, Simon -- Simon Vallet Institut National Agronomique Paris-Grignon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gprs, bluetooth and t68i
Hi, I'm trying to connect using gprs (in France) with debian unstable, benh kernel last rsync vers + bluez + a t68i from SonyErikson phone. Unfortunately i cannot go further than seeing the phone and its services, and trying to connect to the phone via /dev/rfcomm0 linked to channel 1 (DUN) of the phone. I tried many ppp confs and i'm really unsure on how to do this. This phone works well on OSX (someone I know who uses the same phone company). When i do pon, i see the pppd process hanging just before ip negociation.Phone is 'COnnecting...' forever. Thks for help if someone ever succeeded in making this config work. -- Jean-Christophe Michel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Symétrie
Re: Help with X using ATI pci card?
On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 11:21:43AM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote: > On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 23:17, W. Crowshaw wrote: > > > > On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 06:28:46PM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote: > > > On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 23:17, William Crowshaw wrote: > > > > > > > > I would really like to get 2 monitors going [...] > > > > > > The atimisc driver doesn't support this yet. > > > > > Yep, I know. The card docs say that this is > > impossible as well. No, I had intended to run > > monitor off of /chaos/control (the 7500 built in > > video) and the other, larger, monitor over the ati > > card. > > This might work, using the fbdev driver for the control. > Exactly what I was thinking, using the much improved controlfb... > > Additionally, I thought I would say that, even > > though I cannot get a console or a X session using > > this ati connected to my Dell monitor, this isn't > > a problem with the card itself because 1) it behaves > > great on the MacOS and 2) I have three of these > > cards and they all behave the same way on X. > > > > Any ideas, or should I just sell the cards on e-bay? > > I'd try a newer XFree86 version first. > Really? Say it isn't so. Upgrading to debian unstable isn't very enticing and damn if I want to build another app from scratch. My debian system is starting to look like gentoo. Before I made the plunge, could you or someone else give me any assurances that it would be worth the trouble? > -- > Earthling Michel Dänzer \ Debian (powerpc), XFree86 and DRI developer > Software libre enthusiast \ http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r?enzer -- wcrowshaw
Re: Help with X using ATI pci card?
On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 10:40:58AM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> It could be a Xclaim3D. AFAIK these were built with either a 3D RAGE II+ (like
> mine) or a 3D RAGE Pro.
>
> > smaller chip that says "Nexus GA 42601" on it.
>
> That's probably the firmware ROM. So it contains `Nexus GA' firmware, and is
> probably a Nexus GA ;-)
>
> BTW, what connectors are there on the card? My Xclaim3D has a 15-pin VGA
> connector and a Mac monitor connector.
>
The card has a Mac monitor connector and a VGA
connector. However, both NexusGA cards and Xclaim3D
cards have both these connectors.
> > But then the kernel seem to recognize it
> > as a Mach64 card. X however recognizes it as both a
> > ATI 3D Rage Pro and a Mach64, witness the X log:
>
> Mach64 is the name for all ATI 64-bit graphics accelerators. It covers the
> following families:
> - GX: earliest version, external clockchip and RAMDAC
> - CT: integrated clockchip and RAMDAC
> - VT: video extensions
> - GT: 3D extensions (i.e. 3D RAGE)
> o GT-B: 3D RAGE II and II+
> o GT-C: 3D RAGE Pro
> - LT: for laptops
>
> > However, r128 X driver does not work on this card
> > and reports "No devices detected".
>
> Indeed, RAGE 128 is the next generation of ATI, using a 128-bit architecture.
>
> Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
>
> Geert
So you're using a Xclaim3D card? Have you
experienced the problems that I am experiences with
mine? (if it really is a Xclaim3D)
Thanks for your help.
--
wcrowshaw
Re: Help with X using ATI pci card?
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, W. Crowshaw wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 10:40:58AM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > It could be a Xclaim3D. AFAIK these were built with either a 3D RAGE II+
> > (like
> > mine) or a 3D RAGE Pro.
> So you're using a Xclaim3D card? Have you
> experienced the problems that I am experiences with
> mine? (if it really is a Xclaim3D)
Yes, I have an Xclaim3D with 3D RAGE II+. Works fine with atyfb (I originally
wrote atyfb for that card ;-). I still use XFree86 3.x BTW.
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
-- Linus Torvalds
Re: patching kernel question
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:45:04 -0700 "gm c" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I would also like to know how to go about changing some config items in a > benh kernel to suit my needs.--something that is a module (m) I might want > in (y) or some thing that is off (n) I might want as (m) can this be > done??? > just use 'make menuconfig' from sources' dir, as in a standard kernel tree :-) farewell.
Re: Finnish X11 keymap on iMac?
> > And are you > > dpk-reconfigure-ing xserver-xfree86 every time you change? > > Both console and X are configured to use PC / standard / finnish-latin1, > since I have no use for Apple's own mapping. ... > All USB keyboards I currently have are meant to be Mac keyboards (whatever > usbmgr reported upon connection is included in parentheses): By Mac keyboard, you seem to mean USB keyboard. The keys of the third-party keyboards are in the standard PC position, right? > 1) original narrow iMac keyboard (Alps Electric?M2452 M2452 on usb1:14.0). > 2) Macalley (ALCOR macally on usb1:6.0) > 3) noname (ALCOR STRONG MAN KBD HUB on usb1:11.0) > > On the Apple (Alps) keyboard, <> and §½ are correct ... That's wierd that you have the system configured as PC / standard / finnish-latin1, but the keymaps are correct for the Apple key layout. But, if the only problem with this keyboard is the meta-key problem you explained earlier, the simple xmodmap change below should fix it (without disabling deadkeys, of course). > Meanwhile, both the noname and Macalley, being based upon that same Alcor > chipset, behave similarly, with two keys being inverted and with some meta > keys being at the wrong place. So this is the same wierd behavior as before: the keyboards have keys in the PC position, and the configuration is for PC, but these keys are mapping to the Apple position. I wonder if this is a lower level thing. What is your keyboard InputDevice in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4? I'd be interested to know what the linux scancodes and X keycodes are for these keys on i386 Linux. Are you able to try these on a PC? If so, try these commands on both: # from the console, then press the <>| and §½¶ keys $ showkey -s $ showkey -k # Also, in X, press these keys with the keyboard in the xev window $ xev > > > > Before, you had said the following: > > > > > On a Finnish/Swedish early iMac with the narrow USB keyboard, xev > > > > > says: > > > > > > > > > > Control_L,Alt_L,Super_L,space,Multikey. > > > > > > > > > > What it should be (as far as Mac OS keymaps and console-tools go): > > > > > > > > > > Control_L,Mode_switch,Alt_L,space,(?). > > > > > > > > I haven't seen a Finnish keyboard, but I assume that the keys are > > > > physically marked with "ctrl", "alt & option", "Apple-logo/command", > > > > "space bar", "Multikey". Is this true? > > > > > > They are: ctrl, alt/option, apple, spacebar, apple. I realize something else from another keyboard discussion. Mac OS uses Alt to allow some characters to be typed, but Windows and X ususally use AltGr. Unfortunately, you don't have a right Alt key on the Apple keyboard. As you already said, that makes it impossible to have the exact same keymap on your i386 and ppc boxes. Would it make sense to remap the left Apple-logo key to Mode_Switch instead of Multikey? > Indeed. Anyhow, just to clarify, what I'm trying to achieve is to get the > exact same (PC) keyboard layout on all my Debian hardware. For obvious > reasons, this cannot work using the narrow iMac keyboard, since some > keycaps are missing, but both Alcor chipset-based keyboards have, for all > intents and purpose, the exact same layout as any PC keyboard, the only > difference being the power key. Again, it's strange that you have X configured as PC, but it's giving you the Apple layout. Frank
Re: Motorola PowerStack PPC
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:40:07 +0200, Dave Russell wrote: > I have had a Motorola > PowerPC sitting on my desk for years collecting dust and I would like to get > it working with debian linux. You might want to check http://penguinppc.org./ to see if your specific model is supported. Then you can get the installation instructions at http://debian.org./ or your favorite mirror. Finally, you can come up with specific issues for advice by the list gurus... -- _ Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra +41 (21) 648 11 34 / \ http://br.geocities.com./lgcdutra/ +41 (78) 778 11 34 \ / Answer to the list, not to me directly!+55 (11) 5686 2219 / \ Rate this if helpful: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=leandro
Re: swiss german keyboard config needed
> > Ah, right. Because Mac OS only uses the Alt key to generate 'odd' > > characters, but we use it for more. It sucks that Apple wired the iBooks > > so that the Alt_R key is a pain to get to. The Enter key on my iBook is > > in a good place (between the spacebar and right alt key)... > > Indeed. Unless anybody is attached to using this key as enter, what > about an XkbVariant "laptop" which maps Mode_switch and Multi_key to > this key, Delete to Shift+Backspace, ... ? From my reading of the > nodeadkeys variant definition in /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xfree86, this might > be possible to do in one go for all layouts. I use this key as an ALTGR key, which gives me a full PC-style keyboard. You press ALTGR-2 to get an "@" (not ALT-G like on a "regular" Mac), but since KDE maps alternative caracters for almost all the keys, it makes sense (and I don't have to "learn" yet another keyboard). You can apply the changes by typing : cat <
Re: swiss german keyboard config needed
On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 17:43, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > > Don't you think it would be the best to produce the same characters with
> > > the same key combinations as in OS X by default (eg. for swiss keyboards
> > > that ALT-G = @, ALT-8 = {, ALT-6 = ],...) ?
> >
> > What about apps which use these combos for something else? I agree that
> > -G should yield @, etc. by default, but I'm not sure that
> > something can be alt
>
> Ah, right. Because Mac OS only uses the Alt key to generate 'odd' characters,
> but we use it for more. It sucks that Apple wired the iBooks so that the
> Alt_R key is a pain to get to. The Enter key on my iBook is in a good place
> (between the spacebar and right alt key)...
Indeed. Unless anybody is attached to using this key as enter, what
about an XkbVariant "laptop" which maps Mode_switch and Multi_key to
this key, Delete to Shift+Backspace, ... ? From my reading of the
nodeadkeys variant definition in /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xfree86, this might
be possible to do in one go for all layouts.
--
Earthling Michel Dänzer \ Debian (powerpc), XFree86 and DRI developer
Software libre enthusiast \ http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=daenzer
Re: swiss german keyboard config needed
On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 21:01, Rogério Brito wrote: > On Aug 14 2003, Michel Dänzer wrote: > > I use Delete (xmodmapped it to Shift+Backspace) for deleting mail, so > > it's important to me. :) Dunno about the majority of people though. > > And how do you do that? The same way I posted some time ago? I don't remember what you posted. :) Here's the /etc/X11/Xmodmap line I use: keycode 22 = BackSpace Delete > Does it work for all clients (like, xterm/rxvt)? I don't think it works for all of them (some probably get confused by the Shift?), but it works for those I care about (mostly GTK 2 :). -- Earthling Michel Dänzer \ Debian (powerpc), XFree86 and DRI developer Software libre enthusiast \ http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=daenzer
