Re: Sven Luther removed from the debian-kernel project

[Sven Luther]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 03:04:22PM +0200, Bastian Blank wrote:
> Hi team members, hi Sven
> 
> We, the admins and core team members of the debian-kernel project,

Who are the admins and core team members of the debian-kernel project,
and where did you discuss and decide that ? 

> decided to remove Sven Luther from the kernel project.

And whyever that ? Do you have a single reason for this action ? 

> The problems between Sven and the remain of the team did not decrease in

Can you tell me what those problems are ? 

> the last months. He decided to ignore a Nack on the Efika-patchset
> lately.

Well, the nack was not justified, neither was any communication
happening, and it is basically you and maximilian who decided this
without any argumentation. 

I remember you that one of the arguments you gave (the abi change) once
investigated, did not end up being as problematic as your initial NACK
suggested.

You also refused the PS3 patches, even though the linux/sony guys are
actively working on upstreaming those, and the patches are all neatly
separated in little patches.

> Some of us even ignore him on IRC.
> Bastian on behalf of the kernel team

The problems are also due on big part due to the total lack of
communication of you guys. 

Really sad that this happen, it is yet one more backstabbing from a team
i considered the members to be close friends once, and with whom we
achieved a lot when i had an active leadership role.

Sadly,

Sven Luther


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Re: Sven Luther

[Robert Millan]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2007 at 05:07:10PM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:
> 
> On Jul 22, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Robert Millan wrote:
> 
> >
> >The listmasters required that some discussion be held, and once  
> >finished they
> >be pointed at it, so they can decide wether to lift it or not.
> 
> Robert,
> 
> I think you can report to the listmasters that a discussion has been  
> held, and the opinion of those who participated in the discussion was  
> whole-heartedly that Sven should no longer be banned.

Done.

> Perhaps, now we can put this whole issue behind us and get on with  
> the work we came here to do!

Hope so :-)

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Re: Sven Luther

[Otavio Salvador]

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Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi folks,
>
> Sven (CCed) asked me if I could do something to get his ban lifted on
> debian-powerpc as has happened on ocaml-list before.  It is my understanding
> that Sven is actively participating in debian-powerpc efforts, and so it would
> be nice if he could write to this list as well.

I do second his ban removal from debian-powerpc mailing list.

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Re: Sven Luther

[sa9k063]

Hi,

i guess its futile to search for someone being guilty. probably
everybody involved has had bad days writing emails.

since this ban happened, the amount of ppc machines running debian i
mostly install for friends has dropped to zero, leaving only a single
one of my own machines running debian-powerpc.

i would like to see this childish ban removed.

my 2 ct,

teefour


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Re: Sven Luther

[Rick Thomas]

On Jul 22, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Robert Millan wrote:



The listmasters required that some discussion be held, and once  
finished they

be pointed at it, so they can decide wether to lift it or not.


Robert,

I think you can report to the listmasters that a discussion has been  
held, and the opinion of those who participated in the discussion was  
whole-heartedly that Sven should no longer be banned.


Perhaps, now we can put this whole issue behind us and get on with  
the work we came here to do!


Rick


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Re: Sven Luther

[Gunther Furtado]

2007/7/23, Gunther Furtado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

2007/7/22, Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
As I understand it, this is a question from the listmasters to the
list. So as an user/member of the list my answer is yes, I think Sven
must stay/return.



I think I was not clear:

I think that the ban must be lifted!

sorry!

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Re: Sven Luther

[Hans Ekbrand]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2007 at 07:42:18PM +0200, Simon Vallet wrote:
> Well, as a PPC user, I think Sven has been very helpful on
> debian-powerpc, and for the Debian PowerPC port in general. I don't
> particularly want to know who's the bad guy and who's the good one:
> this whole banning thing has IMO only had negative impacts.
> 
> I vote for this silly ban to get lifted.

I agree wholeheartedly with Simon.

-- 
Hans Ekbrand (http://sociologi.cjb.net) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: Sven Luther

[Simon Vallet]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:44:08 +0200
Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sven (CCed) asked me if I could do something to get his ban lifted on
> debian-powerpc as has happened on ocaml-list before.  It is my understanding
> that Sven is actively participating in debian-powerpc efforts, and so it would
> be nice if he could write to this list as well.
> 
> The listmasters required that some discussion be held, and once finished they
> be pointed at it, so they can decide wether to lift it or not.

Well, as a PPC user, I think Sven has been very helpful on
debian-powerpc, and for the Debian PowerPC port in general. I don't
particularly want to know who's the bad guy and who's the good one:
this whole banning thing has IMO only had negative impacts.

I vote for this silly ban to get lifted.

Simon


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Re: Sven Luther

[Greg Trigg]

I, for one, want to see the ban lifted.  Sven is one of the few who has 
made any effort to support IBM Power3 machines.  On the one post I did 
ask for help on, he was the only one to respond.  So far, he has the 
only kernel that will actually boot on my RS6000's.  It would be nice if 
the stock kernel that comes with Etch would do that.  It has something 
to do with the SCSI driver.  I get the white screen of death and never 
even make it to the penguin.


Robert Millan wrote:


On Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 05:26:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
 


* Peter Teunissen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   

I see no reason to ban Sven completely from any debian lists and vote for 
the ban to be lifted.
 


Yea, that's nice.  If you want to discuss Sven and his ban or whatever,
take it up on an appropriate list (ie: not this one).  The people who
can do something about it, if there's something to be done, probably
aren't even *on* this list.  All you're doing is annoying those people
who *are* on this list.

Go talk to the listmasters about it.
   



Hi Stephen,

I did.  As said in the other mail:

 


The listmasters required that some discussion be held, and once finished they
be pointed at it, so they can decide wether to lift it or not.
 



If you're bothered about this discussion, it's easy to setup a filter to skip
it completely (e.g. by Subject:).

 

Re: Sven Luther

[Gunther Furtado]

2007/7/22, Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


The listmasters required that some discussion be held, and once finished they
be pointed at it, so they can decide wether to lift it or not.



As I understand it, this is a question from the listmasters to the
list. So as an user/member of the list my answer is yes, I think Sven
must stay/return.

cheers,


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ResponderPara: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Sven Luther

[Robert Millan]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 05:26:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Peter Teunissen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > I see no reason to ban Sven completely from any debian lists and vote for 
> > the ban to be lifted.
> 
> Yea, that's nice.  If you want to discuss Sven and his ban or whatever,
> take it up on an appropriate list (ie: not this one).  The people who
> can do something about it, if there's something to be done, probably
> aren't even *on* this list.  All you're doing is annoying those people
> who *are* on this list.
> 
> Go talk to the listmasters about it.

Hi Stephen,

I did.  As said in the other mail:

> > The listmasters required that some discussion be held, and once finished 
> > they
> > be pointed at it, so they can decide wether to lift it or not.

If you're bothered about this discussion, it's easy to setup a filter to skip
it completely (e.g. by Subject:).

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Re: Sven Luther

[Stephen Frost]

* Gregory Seidman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Please read the original post that started this thread:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2007/07/msg00090.html

As I said to someone else:
No, I was trying to avoid it.

Erm, so the listmasters are being idiotic about it, how nice.  Yeah, if
you're watching, I'd really rather *not* see this *discussion* about the
ban, unban, whatever, on a *technical* list.  It's *off-topic* and
pretty sad to have the listmasters encouraging it.

Do it or don't, don't try and punt on the decision.

Enjoy,  

Stephen


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Re: Sven Luther

[Gregory Seidman]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 05:26:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Peter Teunissen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > I see no reason to ban Sven completely from any debian lists and vote for 
> > the ban to be lifted.
> 
> Yea, that's nice.  If you want to discuss Sven and his ban or whatever,
> take it up on an appropriate list (ie: not this one).  The people who
> can do something about it, if there's something to be done, probably
> aren't even *on* this list.  All you're doing is annoying those people
> who *are* on this list.
> 
> Go talk to the listmasters about it.

Please read the original post that started this thread:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2007/07/msg00090.html

>   Thanks,
>   Stephen
--Greg


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Re: Sven Luther

[Mike Hore]

Hi folks,

I'm fairly new to Debian and this list, and I don't even know what all 
this is about, but I'm involved in various other mailing lists which 
sometimes have quite heated discussion, so let me just make a couple of 
points:


** If a list is moderated, the usual procedure is to stop discussion of 
a particular controversial topic.  An individual is only blocked for 
spamming or the like.  This list isn't moderated so subject-level 
blocking wasn't available, still, the blocking of an individual seems 
*extremely* drastic.


** The "ban" announcement
http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/05/msg00234.html
makes it clear that others besides Sven were involved, and it was only 
intended to be temporary till tempers cooled.  It's been nearly 2 months 
now.


So IMHO the ban (if it ever should have been applied) should end ASAP.

Cheers,  Mike.

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Re: Sven Luther

[Rick Thomas]

Sven could be a useful participant in future powerpc support, if  
allowed, as he has in the past.


I am not a Debian Developer, for lack of time to devote to the  
project, but I am very concerned about the deterioration in powerpc  
support.  Allowing Sven to participate would be a step toward  
correcting that problem.


Rick


On Jul 22, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Robert Millan wrote:



Hi folks,

something to get his ban lifted on debian-powerpc



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Re: Sven Luther

[Stephen Frost]

* Peter Teunissen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I see no reason to ban Sven completely from any debian lists and vote for 
> the ban to be lifted.

Yea, that's nice.  If you want to discuss Sven and his ban or whatever,
take it up on an appropriate list (ie: not this one).  The people who
can do something about it, if there's something to be done, probably
aren't even *on* this list.  All you're doing is annoying those people
who *are* on this list.

Go talk to the listmasters about it.

Thanks,

Stephen


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Re: Sven Luther

[Peter Teunissen]

On 22-jul-2007, at 12:20, Charles Plessy wrote:


Le Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 11:44:08AM +0200, Robert Millan a écrit :


Hi folks,

Sven (CCed) asked me if I could do something to get his ban lifted on
debian-powerpc


Hi,

I am very surprised of this ban as it was never announced. The
explanations from the listmasters clearly state that the filter is to
prevent Sven to post on on debian-project. Of course, banning him  
on all

lists fullfies this purpose, but I think that in that case the wording
would be really unappropriate.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/05/msg00234.html

For this reason I support the lifting of the ban on -powerpc.


I know Sven form the debian lists to be a very knowledgable debian  
developer and participant on the powerpc branch. There has been some  
very disputable infighting on wich I was unable and unwiling to 'take  
sides' since _both_ sides showed annoying behavior that only helped  
to fuel the fight. If any 'banning' should follow from that period, a  
whole bunch of debian devs would have to banned which seems  
rediculous to me.


I see no reason to ban Sven completely from any debian lists and vote  
for the ban to be lifted.



my 2 c.

Peter

Re: Sven Luther

[Charles Plessy]

Le Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 11:44:08AM +0200, Robert Millan a écrit :
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Sven (CCed) asked me if I could do something to get his ban lifted on
> debian-powerpc

Hi,

I am very surprised of this ban as it was never announced. The
explanations from the listmasters clearly state that the filter is to
prevent Sven to post on on debian-project. Of course, banning him on all
lists fullfies this purpose, but I think that in that case the wording
would be really unappropriate.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/05/msg00234.html

For this reason I support the lifting of the ban on -powerpc.

Actually, in the above mail, it is said that the ban should have been
lifted within a few days. This would be the thing to do in my opinion.
Requesting public judgement on a person who is not allowed to answer
seems to me unfair and unwise. And off-topic.

Have a nice day,

(CC Sven as well... Bonne journée)

-- 
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http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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Re: Sven Luther

[Børge Holen]

OMG this is still an issue.!.
You can praise yer bloddy moms for not living nearby, I would smack the whole 
lot of you.
Bollocks!

On Sunday 22 July 2007 11:44, Robert Millan wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Sven (CCed) asked me if I could do something to get his ban lifted on
> debian-powerpc as has happened on ocaml-list before.  It is my
> understanding that Sven is actively participating in debian-powerpc
> efforts, and so it would be nice if he could write to this list as well.
>
> The listmasters required that some discussion be held, and once finished
> they be pointed at it, so they can decide wether to lift it or not.
>
> --
> Robert Millan
>
> My spam trap is [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Note: this address is only intended
> for spam harvesters.  Writing to it will get you added to my black list.

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