Re: Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID

[Mike]

Remember to regenerate the crypto keys so these aren't the same. Cheers.

On Wed, 31 Jan 2024, 04:07 Stan Johnson,  wrote:

> Just FYI to close this thread.
>
> In an attempt to duplicate the problem on a G4 Cube, I noticed that
> there were no issues with "apt-get upgrade" followed by "apt-get
> dist-upgrade". So I just copied the Cube's rootfs to the G4 PowerMac
> MDD, configured the hostname and network, restored the correct SMP
> kernel and modules, and everything is working.
>
> -Stan
>
> -
>
> On 1/22/24 8:24 AM, Stan Johnson wrote:
> > Hi Adrian,
> >
> > Please see the last paragrraph of the message; it may provide a clue for
> > ppc (and probably ppc64).
> >
> > Mr. Simon McVittie seems to be saying that debian-devel isn't the right
> > place for these kinds of issues, since Debian 8 was the last supported
> > version of Debian for ppc. Perhaps the bug report he submitted will
> > address the problem.
> >
> > -Stan
> >
> >  Forwarded Message 
> > Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
> > Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:25 + (UTC)
> > Resent-From: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
> > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:01 +
> > From: Simon McVittie 
> > To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
> >
> > On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 at 17:14:11 -0700, Stan Johnson wrote:
> >> The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian
> >> SID at the moment
> >
> > You can't *necessarily* draw this conclusion from a failure to
> > upgrade. You are using powerpc, which is a "ports" architecture that is
> > not really part of the Debian release process any more:
> >
> > The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is Debian 8 ("jessie").
> > — https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
> >
> > For reference, Debian 8 "jessie" reached end-of-life in 2018.
> >
> > powerpc enthusiasts continue to compile packages from the unstable (sid)
> > rolling release on powerpc, but "ports" architectures are not supported
> by
> > the Debian project as a whole. The mailing list for the big-endian
> powerpc
> > and ppc64 ports (and the little-endian ppc64el architecture, which *is*
> > supported) is debian-powerpc.
> >
> > It is common for potentially large categories of packages to be
> temporarily
> > uninstallable in unstable, particularly in "ports" architectures, and you
> > cannot expect upgrades to go smoothly at all times. I would personally
> > suggest using an interactive apt user interface like aptitude to get a
> > better idea of what depends on what and why.
> >
> >> that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as
> >> the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already
> >> installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init
> >
> > systemd is the default init system in Debian, and also provides the
> > default implementation of several other important systemd services
> > like logind.  If you have chosen not to use systemd, you can expect
> > that you will have to take steps to select other non-default packages
> > (for example dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session, and libpam-elogind
> > instead of libpam-systemd). apt will not necessarily be able to do this
> > automatically.
> >
> > Trying this on amd64, it appears that the problem you encountering is
> > probably that libelogind, elogind's partial replacement for libsystemd,
> > does not appear to provide all of the functions required by the current
> > versions of important packages like procps: procps currently requires
> > libsystemd0 (>= 254), and libelogind only provides a replacement for
> > version 252. I've reported this libelogind limitation as a bug in
> > elogind.
> >
> > smcv
> >
>
>

Re: Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID

[Stan Johnson]

Just FYI to close this thread.

In an attempt to duplicate the problem on a G4 Cube, I noticed that
there were no issues with "apt-get upgrade" followed by "apt-get
dist-upgrade". So I just copied the Cube's rootfs to the G4 PowerMac
MDD, configured the hostname and network, restored the correct SMP
kernel and modules, and everything is working.

-Stan

-

On 1/22/24 8:24 AM, Stan Johnson wrote:
> Hi Adrian,
> 
> Please see the last paragrraph of the message; it may provide a clue for
> ppc (and probably ppc64).
> 
> Mr. Simon McVittie seems to be saying that debian-devel isn't the right
> place for these kinds of issues, since Debian 8 was the last supported
> version of Debian for ppc. Perhaps the bug report he submitted will
> address the problem.
> 
> -Stan
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
> Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:25 + (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:01 +
> From: Simon McVittie 
> To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
> 
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 at 17:14:11 -0700, Stan Johnson wrote:
>> The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian
>> SID at the moment
> 
> You can't *necessarily* draw this conclusion from a failure to
> upgrade. You are using powerpc, which is a "ports" architecture that is
> not really part of the Debian release process any more:
> 
> The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is Debian 8 ("jessie").
> — https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
> 
> For reference, Debian 8 "jessie" reached end-of-life in 2018.
> 
> powerpc enthusiasts continue to compile packages from the unstable (sid)
> rolling release on powerpc, but "ports" architectures are not supported by
> the Debian project as a whole. The mailing list for the big-endian powerpc
> and ppc64 ports (and the little-endian ppc64el architecture, which *is*
> supported) is debian-powerpc.
> 
> It is common for potentially large categories of packages to be temporarily
> uninstallable in unstable, particularly in "ports" architectures, and you
> cannot expect upgrades to go smoothly at all times. I would personally
> suggest using an interactive apt user interface like aptitude to get a
> better idea of what depends on what and why.
> 
>> that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as
>> the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already
>> installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init
> 
> systemd is the default init system in Debian, and also provides the
> default implementation of several other important systemd services
> like logind.  If you have chosen not to use systemd, you can expect
> that you will have to take steps to select other non-default packages
> (for example dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session, and libpam-elogind
> instead of libpam-systemd). apt will not necessarily be able to do this
> automatically.
> 
> Trying this on amd64, it appears that the problem you encountering is
> probably that libelogind, elogind's partial replacement for libsystemd,
> does not appear to provide all of the functions required by the current
> versions of important packages like procps: procps currently requires
> libsystemd0 (>= 254), and libelogind only provides a replacement for
> version 252. I've reported this libelogind limitation as a bug in
> elogind.
> 
> smcv
> 

Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello Stan,

> On Jan 22, 2024, at 4:25 PM, Stan Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Please see the last paragrraph of the message; it may provide a clue for
> ppc (and probably ppc64).
> 
> Mr. Simon McVittie seems to be saying that debian-devel isn't the right
> place for these kinds of issues, since Debian 8 was the last supported
> version of Debian for ppc. Perhaps the bug report he submitted will
> address the problem.

It’s not a powerpc-specific problem as he admits himself. The whole discussion 
about the powerpc port being unofficial is therefore moot.

> Trying this on amd64, it appears that the problem you encountering is
> probably that libelogind, elogind's partial replacement for libsystemd,
> does not appear to provide all of the functions required by the current
> versions of important packages like procps: procps currently requires
> libsystemd0 (>= 254), and libelogind only provides a replacement for
> version 252. I've reported this libelogind limitation as a bug in
> elogind.

Which proves my point.

Adrian

Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID

[Stan Johnson]

Hi Adrian,

Please see the last paragrraph of the message; it may provide a clue for
ppc (and probably ppc64).

Mr. Simon McVittie seems to be saying that debian-devel isn't the right
place for these kinds of issues, since Debian 8 was the last supported
version of Debian for ppc. Perhaps the bug report he submitted will
address the problem.

-Stan

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:25 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:01 +
From: Simon McVittie 
To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org

On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 at 17:14:11 -0700, Stan Johnson wrote:
> The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian
> SID at the moment

You can't *necessarily* draw this conclusion from a failure to
upgrade. You are using powerpc, which is a "ports" architecture that is
not really part of the Debian release process any more:

The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is Debian 8 ("jessie").
— https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/

For reference, Debian 8 "jessie" reached end-of-life in 2018.

powerpc enthusiasts continue to compile packages from the unstable (sid)
rolling release on powerpc, but "ports" architectures are not supported by
the Debian project as a whole. The mailing list for the big-endian powerpc
and ppc64 ports (and the little-endian ppc64el architecture, which *is*
supported) is debian-powerpc.

It is common for potentially large categories of packages to be temporarily
uninstallable in unstable, particularly in "ports" architectures, and you
cannot expect upgrades to go smoothly at all times. I would personally
suggest using an interactive apt user interface like aptitude to get a
better idea of what depends on what and why.

> that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as
> the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already
> installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init

systemd is the default init system in Debian, and also provides the
default implementation of several other important systemd services
like logind.  If you have chosen not to use systemd, you can expect
that you will have to take steps to select other non-default packages
(for example dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session, and libpam-elogind
instead of libpam-systemd). apt will not necessarily be able to do this
automatically.

Trying this on amd64, it appears that the problem you encountering is
probably that libelogind, elogind's partial replacement for libsystemd,
does not appear to provide all of the functions required by the current
versions of important packages like procps: procps currently requires
libsystemd0 (>= 254), and libelogind only provides a replacement for
version 252. I've reported this libelogind limitation as a bug in
elogind.

smcv

Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID

[Stan Johnson]

FYI, it appears to be a dependency issue, not directly caused by systemd.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 17:14:11 -0700
From: Stan Johnson 
To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org, Colin Watson 

Hi Colin,

On 1/21/24 3:22 PM, Stan Johnson wrote:
> ...
> 
> I'll also try installing systemd first (and let sysvinit-core be
> uninstalled), then I'll run "apt-get dist-upgrade", then re-install
> sysvinit-core and see if that disables systemd and lets the X packages
> remain. I've noticed before that some packages claim to be dependent 
> on systemd, but they'll continue to work if systemd is installed and 
> then replaced by sysvinit-core. But if wdm really does require systemd > now, 
> that might explain this issue, with other X packages being 
> dependent on either wdm or systemd. As I recall, wdm is the last X 
> login manager that didn't require systemd (I think xdm and lightdm 
> both require systemd, at least as compiled in Debian).


Please see attached (my comments are preceded by "***").

The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian
SID at the moment that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as
the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already
installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init (that
may not be quite correct, but it appears that way from the attached file).

Removing sysvinit-core manually (after the "apt-get upgrade" step)
results in systemd being used as the init. But even then, "apt-get
dist-upgrade" deletes the X-Windows packages.

For now, I'll restore my rootfs to just after my last "apt-get upgrade".

thanks

-Stan



ppc-g4_01202024.txt.xz
Description: Binary data

Re: Debian SID PowerBook Pismo Installation

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi Stan!

On Tue, 2023-05-30 at 17:30 -0600, Stan Johnson wrote:
> 1) During installation, I deselected X desktop and Xfce and added
> ssh-server. Please add a disk partitioner to the default base
> installation. Either parted or mac-fdisk would work (I used apt-get to
> install both).

The package lists are not architecture-specific. If you want certain packages
to be installed by default, you need to file a bug against parted and get
the package's priority to be changed from "optional" to "standard" [1].

> 2) Partition /dev/sda2 above is the bootstrap partition. Its type should
> be Apple_Bootstrap instead of Apple_HFS. Either way it's an HFS
> partition, but as type Apple_HFS, it won't be distinguished from any
> other HFS partition in Mac OS 9 or Mac OS X (though of course neither of
> those is installed here).

Partitioning is done by the partman-auto package here in [2]. Don't know
whether it's possible to change the partition type to »Apple_Bootstrap«
there [2].

If someone can do the work and read the documentation, I am happy to make
the necessary changes to partman-auto or related packages.

> 3) The mounted filesystems include /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda2:
> 
> # df -k
> Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Available Use% Mounted on
> udev  498148   0498148   0% /dev
> tmpfs 102116 432101684   1% /run
> /dev/sda3  121257500 1064744 113987020   1% /
> tmpfs 510568   0510568   0% /dev/shm
> tmpfs   5120   0  5120   0% /run/lock
> /dev/sda2 249988   11296238692   5% /boot/grub
> tmpfs 102112   0102112   0% /run/user/0
> tmpfs 102112   0102112   0% /run/user/1000
> 
> IMO, /boot/grub should only be mounted when GRUB is being updated or
> installed.

That would require adding a corresponding hook to the GRUB package, probably
in the »update-grub« script [3]. Not sure whether the maintainers of the
»grub2« package would want that in Debian.

> If the system crashes, /dev/sda2 could become corrupt, and I
> don't see an "fsck.hfs" or equivalent to fix it in Debian.

Uhm, the package »hfsprogs« exists in Debian and has been the focus of this
week's discussion on the debian-powerpc mailing list. The reason why it's
not installed by default is Apple's APSL license which makes everything much
more complicated.

> Users could add "noauto" to the /etc/fstab line for /boot/grub and manually 
> mount
> /boot/grub only when updates are needed. Or maybe the grub* executables
> in /usr/sbin could look for an Apple_Bootstrap partition and mount it
> automatically if one is found.

As I said above, this would require PowerMac-specific modifications to the
»grub2« package. Remember, we're not maintaining »Debian Linux Apple PowerMac«
but a port of »Debian Linux« for 32- and 64-bit PowerPC which also happens
to run on Apple PowerMac. We don't own the codebase exclusively, so we can't
just make everything to suit our needs.

> 4) Selecting the GNU GRUB icon from the Apple boot selector (holding the
> option key at boot) doesn't work (the screen just goes blank). Booting
> works as expected using the GRUB menu.

Works for me on my iBook G4. Might be an issue with the old firmware in your
PowerBook Pismo.


Adrian

> [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-priorities
> [2] 
> https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/partman-auto/-/blob/master/recipes-powerpc-powermac_newworld/atomic
> [3] https://salsa.debian.org/grub-team/grub/-/blob/master/debian/update-grub

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer
`. `'   Physicist
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Debian SID PowerBook Pismo Installation

[Stan Johnson]

I tested a basic (text-only) installation on a PowerBook G3 Pismo, using
the following ISO:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-05-28/debian-12.0.0-powerpc-NETINST-1.iso

The installer created these default partitions (using the entire disk):

# mac-fdisk -l
/dev/sda
#type namelength   base  (size)  system
/dev/sda1 Apple_partition_map Apple   63 @ 1 ( 31.5k)
/dev/sda2   Apple_HFS untitled51 @ 64(244.1M)
/dev/sda3 Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled 247574219 @ 500065(118.1G)
/dev/sda4 Apple_UNIX_SVR2 swap   1995347 @ 248074284 (974.3M)
/dev/sda5  Apple_Free Extra   49 @ 250069631 ( 24.5k)

# parted -l
Model: ATA LITEON LMH-128V2 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sda: 128GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: mac
Disk Flags:

Number  Start   End SizeFile system Name  Flags
 1  512B32.8kB  32.3kB  Apple
 2  32.8kB  256MB   256MB   hfs untitled
 3  256MB   127GB   127GB   ext4untitled
 4  127GB   128GB   1022MB  linux-swap(v1)  swap  swap


Comments:

1) During installation, I deselected X desktop and Xfce and added
ssh-server. Please add a disk partitioner to the default base
installation. Either parted or mac-fdisk would work (I used apt-get to
install both).

2) Partition /dev/sda2 above is the bootstrap partition. Its type should
be Apple_Bootstrap instead of Apple_HFS. Either way it's an HFS
partition, but as type Apple_HFS, it won't be distinguished from any
other HFS partition in Mac OS 9 or Mac OS X (though of course neither of
those is installed here).

3) The mounted filesystems include /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda2:

# df -k
Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Available Use% Mounted on
udev  498148   0498148   0% /dev
tmpfs 102116 432101684   1% /run
/dev/sda3  121257500 1064744 113987020   1% /
tmpfs 510568   0510568   0% /dev/shm
tmpfs   5120   0  5120   0% /run/lock
/dev/sda2 249988   11296238692   5% /boot/grub
tmpfs 102112   0102112   0% /run/user/0
tmpfs 102112   0102112   0% /run/user/1000

IMO, /boot/grub should only be mounted when GRUB is being updated or
installed. If the system crashes, /dev/sda2 could become corrupt, and I
don't see an "fsck.hfs" or equivalent to fix it in Debian. Users could
add "noauto" to the /etc/fstab line for /boot/grub and manually mount
/boot/grub only when updates are needed. Or maybe the grub* executables
in /usr/sbin could look for an Apple_Bootstrap partition and mount it
automatically if one is found.

4) Selecting the GNU GRUB icon from the Apple boot selector (holding the
option key at boot) doesn't work (the screen just goes blank). Booting
works as expected using the GRUB menu.

Other than those issues, everything seems to work ok.

-Stan

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

Hi Adrian





P.S. very likely the cause of boot problems is on my side, not installer one.

If I checked partitions with OSX and then with linux, it differs. And the 
difference is in my two grub partitions. Using disk tools from different OS 
causes some mismatch.

I will reorganize disks, and for Debian will be dedicated one.

Those aren’t boot-related issues, but you’re just missing the firmware for your 
graphics card.

Please boot the machine with “nomodeset” and install the 
“firmware-graphics-amd” package.


Thanks for advice, I will do this first.


Adrian



Martina

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Good Morning!

> On May 18, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Martina Hřebcová  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 5/17/23 18:49, Martina Hřebcová wrote:
>> 
>> Unfortunatelly system not boots. I see grub screen, can edit, select 
>> whatever. If I select kernel, there is only blinking cursor for few seconds 
>> and then it stops blinkink.
>> 
>> Now I am in a hurry with family matters, but I will return to investigations 
>> next week.
>> 
>> 
> P.S. very likely the cause of boot problems is on my side, not installer one.
> 
> If I checked partitions with OSX and then with linux, it differs. And the 
> difference is in my two grub partitions. Using disk tools from different OS 
> causes some mismatch.
> 
> I will reorganize disks, and for Debian will be dedicated one.

Those aren’t boot-related issues, but you’re just missing the firmware for your 
graphics card.

Please boot the machine with “nomodeset” and install the 
“firmware-graphics-amd” package.

Adrian

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

On 5/17/23 18:49, Martina Hřebcová wrote:


Unfortunatelly system not boots. I see grub screen, can edit, select 
whatever. If I select kernel, there is only blinking cursor for few 
seconds and then it stops blinkink.


Now I am in a hurry with family matters, but I will return to 
investigations next week.



P.S. very likely the cause of boot problems is on my side, not installer 
one.


If I checked partitions with OSX and then with linux, it differs. And 
the difference is in my two grub partitions. Using disk tools from 
different OS causes some mismatch.


I will reorganize disks, and for Debian will be dedicated one.

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

"> On 5/17/23 10:38, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Yes, we increased the size of the /boot/grub partition at some point since
GRUB
requires more space. So, if possible, I recommend using the default
partition
layout that the installer suggests.
"



Yes!  I had from previous version grub partition size 128 MB and now is
needed at least 256 MB.

Interesting is, that instaling of grub-ieee.. package has no error output,
but simply hangs.


So sorry of false alert, installer now works fine. Thank you very much!





Unfortunatelly system not boots. I see grub screen, can edit, select
whatever. If I select kernel, there is only blinking cursor for few seconds
and then it stops blinkink.

Now I am in a hurry with family matters, but I will return to investigations
next week.




"
Adrian "



Martina

"
"

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On Wed, 2023-05-17 at 11:07 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote:
> On 5/17/23 10:38, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > 
> > > In evening I will check also ext2 /boot/grub partition, and also try
> > > install all together to single / ext4 partition, if installer allows it.
> > > Of course, Mac will not boot in this case, but at least I can try whole
> > > installation process.
> > That does not work. /boot/grub must be an HFS partition, otherwise the
> > installation of the GRUB bootloader will fail. I recommend using the
> > default partition layout for the time being.
> 
> Thanks, it saves my time. I have another idea - I haven't check the size 
> of my /boot/grub partiton.
> 
> I used old grub partition from times when Debian drops yaboot. ( Debian 
> 9 probably). Maybe this new grub version requires more space.

Yes, we increased the size of the /boot/grub partition at some point since GRUB
requires more space. So, if possible, I recommend using the default partition
layout that the installer suggests.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer
`. `'   Physicist
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

Hi Adrian!

On 5/17/23 10:38, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:



In evening I will check also ext2 /boot/grub partition, and also try
install all together to single / ext4 partition, if installer allows it.
Of course, Mac will not boot in this case, but at least I can try whole
installation process.

That does not work. /boot/grub must be an HFS partition, otherwise the
installation of the GRUB bootloader will fail. I recommend using the
default partition layout for the time being.


Thanks, it saves my time. I have another idea - I haven't check the size 
of my /boot/grub partiton.


I used old grub partition from times when Debian drops yaboot. ( Debian 
9 probably). Maybe this new grub version requires more space.




Yes it could. My Powermac Quad has now issues with thermal calibration,
I have to check and clean everything. Fortunatelly it has no coolant
leakage. But other hardware like disk controllers woks fine under OSX
and MorphOS.

In most cases it's a memory module problem and it's not unusual that the
problem shows with some operating systems only.
Powermac ASD firmware diagnostics shows all RAM modules OK. But it is 
good point - I can try installation with only two other modules - i.e. 4GB

I have also iMac G5 stored in basement, so I can try installation here.
But later, my daughter is getting married this weekend :-)))

Testing on a different machine is definitely a very good idea!

PS: All the best for your daughter's marriage!


Many thanks !!!


Adrian

Martina

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi Martina!

On Wed, 2023-05-17 at 10:32 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote:
> Yes, I am used HFS ( not+) partition, with /boot/grub mountpoint. And 
> ext4 / partition.
> 
> In evening I will check also ext2 /boot/grub partition, and also try 
> install all together to single / ext4 partition, if installer allows it. 
> Of course, Mac will not boot in this case, but at least I can try whole 
> installation process.

That does not work. /boot/grub must be an HFS partition, otherwise the
installation of the GRUB bootloader will fail. I recommend using the
default partition layout for the time being.

> > > If I skip installation of grub, do somebody know where I can find tested
> > > grub package? Or I try do it manually with .iso grub directory.
> > There is no tested grub package as the packages are constantly updated.
> OK I will try some things manually.
> > Your issue could be a hardware problem, too. I will give it a try inside 
> > QEMU later.
> 
> Yes it could. My Powermac Quad has now issues with thermal calibration, 
> I have to check and clean everything. Fortunatelly it has no coolant 
> leakage. But other hardware like disk controllers woks fine under OSX 
> and MorphOS.

In most cases it's a memory module problem and it's not unusual that the
problem shows with some operating systems only.

> I have also iMac G5 stored in basement, so I can try installation here. 
> But later, my daughter is getting married this weekend :-)))

Testing on a different machine is definitely a very good idea!

PS: All the best for your daughter's marriage!

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer
`. `'   Physicist
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

Hello Adrian,

On 5/17/23 10:01, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:a Hřebcová wrote:

-Installing GRUB bootloader stucked ( grub-ieee1275 ). No fail, but no
response.

The process itself hangs as you can see in the kernel log:
What partition layout did you use? Did you keep the HFS boot partition as 
suggested by the installer?


Yes, I am used HFS ( not+) partition, with /boot/grub mountpoint. And 
ext4 / partition.


In evening I will check also ext2 /boot/grub partition, and also try 
install all together to single / ext4 partition, if installer allows it. 
Of course, Mac will not boot in this case, but at least I can try whole 
installation process.



If I skip installation of grub, do somebody know where I can find tested
grub package? Or I try do it manually with .iso grub directory.

There is no tested grub package as the packages are constantly updated.

OK I will try some things manually.

Your issue could be a hardware problem, too. I will give it a try inside QEMU 
later.


Yes it could. My Powermac Quad has now issues with thermal calibration, 
I have to check and clean everything. Fortunatelly it has no coolant 
leakage. But other hardware like disk controllers woks fine under OSX 
and MorphOS.


I have also iMac G5 stored in basement, so I can try installation here. 
But later, my daughter is getting married this weekend :-)))



Adrian

Martina

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello Martina!

On Wed, 2023-05-17 at 09:56 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote:
> -Installing GRUB bootloader stucked ( grub-ieee1275 ). No fail, but no 
> response.

The process itself hangs as you can see in the kernel log:

May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468104] INFO: task kworker/2:1:68 blocked for 
more than 120 seconds.
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468114]   Not tainted 6.1.0-9-powerpc64 #1 
Debian 6.1.27-1
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468118] "echo 0 > 
/proc/sys/kernel/hung_task_timeout_secs" disables this message.
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468121] task:kworker/2:1 state:D stack:0 
pid:68ppid:2  flags:0x0800
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468131] Workqueue: events_long .flush_mdb [hfs]
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468148] Call Trace:
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468151] [c782b380] [0002] 
0x2 (unreliable)
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468160] [c782b570] [c001aa40] 
.__switch_to+0x1d0/0x2d0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468171] [c782b620] [c0df6570] 
.__schedule+0x360/0xc30
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468182] [c782b700] [c0df6eac] 
.schedule+0x6c/0x130
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468190] [c782b780] [c0df6ffc] 
.io_schedule+0x4c/0x80
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468199] [c782b800] [c0df7e40] 
.bit_wait_io+0x20/0xc0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468208] [c782b880] [c0df7bd8] 
.__wait_on_bit_lock+0xf8/0x180
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468218] [c782b930] [c0df7d1c] 
.out_of_line_wait_on_bit_lock+0xbc/0x100
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468227] [c782ba10] [c05d64dc] 
.__lock_buffer+0x5c/0x80
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468235] [c782ba90] [c00800e3a170] 
.hfs_mdb_commit+0x310/0x440 [hfs]
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468246] [c782bb50] [c00800e3bd64] 
.flush_mdb+0x74/0xf0 [hfs]
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468256] [c782bbe0] [c019e9a0] 
.process_one_work+0x2b0/0x580
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468264] [c782bc90] [c019eed0] 
.worker_thread+0x260/0x5f0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468271] [c782bd70] [c01acb10] 
.kthread+0x120/0x130
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468280] [c782be10] [c000d3d8] 
.ret_from_kernel_thread+0x58/0x60
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468304] INFO: task grub-install:23819 blocked 
for more than 120 seconds.
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468308]   Not tainted 6.1.0-9-powerpc64 #1 
Debian 6.1.27-1
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468311] "echo 0 > 
/proc/sys/kernel/hung_task_timeout_secs" disables this message.
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468313] task:grub-installstate:D stack:0 
pid:23819 ppid:23691  flags:0x2000
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468320] Call Trace:
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468323] [c4183460] [c4183ab0] 
0xc4183ab0 (unreliable)
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468331] [c4183650] [c001aa40] 
.__switch_to+0x1d0/0x2d0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468340] [c4183700] [c0df6570] 
.__schedule+0x360/0xc30
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468349] [c41837e0] [c0df6eac] 
.schedule+0x6c/0x130
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468357] [c4183860] [c0e00304] 
.schedule_timeout+0x194/0x1e0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468365] [c4183930] [c0df821c] 
.__wait_for_common+0x13c/0x350
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468374] [c4183a10] [c01a06e8] 
.__flush_work.isra.0+0x1c8/0x3c0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468381] [c4183af0] [c00800e3801c] 
.hfs_file_fsync+0xbc/0x110 [hfs]
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468391] [c4183b80] [c05c9640] 
.vfs_fsync_range+0x70/0xe0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468400] [c4183c10] [c05c9c54] 
.__se_sys_fsync+0x54/0xa0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468407] [c4183c90] [c002be1c] 
.system_call_exception+0x15c/0x2e0
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468416] [c4183e10] [c000cb54] 
system_call_common+0xf4/0x258
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468425] --- interrupt: c00 at 0x7fffa3632684
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468430] NIP:  7fffa3632684 LR: 
00013c9f74b0 CTR: 
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468433] REGS: c4183e80 TRAP: 0c00   Not 
tainted  (6.1.0-9-powerpc64 Debian 6.1.27-1)
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468437] MSR:  9000d032 
  CR: 22082882  XER: 
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468460] IRQMASK: 0 
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468460] GPR00: 0076 7fffed7e74d0 
7fffa3737200 0006 
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468460] GPR04:   
  
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468460] GPR08:   
  
May 16 20:29:35 kernel: [ 2538.468460] GPR12:  

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

On 5/16/23 08:45, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

The issue is this change [1], so we need to use the latest version of debian-cd
to create the installation images. However, since the latest version of 
debian-cd
currently doesn't work with Debian Ports, I need to fix that first.

OK, it was enough to disable firmware support in the CD configuration for now 
which
isn't so much of a problem since it doesn't fully work at the moment anyway as 
it
needs server-side support in the archive.

I am building new images now which should show up here in a few minutes:
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-05-16/


Many thanks! I will test today or at least tomorrow evening and let you 
know.



Thanks,
Adrian


Martina

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi!

On Tue, 2023-05-16 at 08:32 +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> The issue is this change [1], so we need to use the latest version of 
> debian-cd
> to create the installation images. However, since the latest version of 
> debian-cd
> currently doesn't work with Debian Ports, I need to fix that first.

OK, it was enough to disable firmware support in the CD configuration for now 
which
isn't so much of a problem since it doesn't fully work at the moment anyway as 
it
needs server-side support in the archive.

I am building new images now which should show up here in a few minutes:

> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-05-16/

Thanks,
Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer
`. `'   Physicist
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello!

On Mon, 2023-05-15 at 19:38 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote:
> Tested on Powermac G5 Quad core. Sysylog is in attachment.
> Please, may I post it somewhere, or is ir OK this way?

>From the log:

May 15 17:23:37 in-target: Reading package lists...
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: 
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: Building dependency tree...
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: 
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: Reading state information...
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: 
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: Package zstd is not available, but is referred to by 
another package.
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: This may mean that the package is missing, has been 
obsoleted, or
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: is only available from another source
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: 
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: E
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: : 
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: Package 'zstd' has no installation candidate
May 15 17:23:37 in-target: 
May 15 17:23:37 base-installer: error: exiting on error 
base-installer/kernel/failed-package-install
May 15 17:24:27 init: starting pid 289, tty '/dev/tty2': '-/bin/sh'

The issue is this change [1], so we need to use the latest version of debian-cd
to create the installation images. However, since the latest version of 
debian-cd
currently doesn't work with Debian Ports, I need to fix that first.

Adrian

> [1] 
> https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/base-installer/-/commit/0500cbb5d95dc19c9b322ad475b0d80b2629d1c0

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer
`. `'   Physicist
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

> On May 15, 2023, at 8:16 PM, Martina Hřebcová  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 2023-05-10 at 08:17 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote: 
> > after several years I want to install Debian Sid again on my Powermac G5 
> > Quad  and AmigaOne X1000. 
> 
> Please try the current images that I just created: 
> 
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-05-14/ 
> 
> 
> Tried just now, and installation of base system ends with error:
> 
> "An error was returned while tryingto install zstd package onto the target 
> system."
> 
> 
> 
> Tested on Powermac G5 Quad core. Sysylog is in attachment.
> 
> Please, may I post it somewhere, or is ir OK this way?
> 
When exactly does this problem occur? After installing the base system?

Adrian

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

"Hello!

On Wed, 2023-05-10 at 08:17 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote:
> after several years I want to install Debian Sid again on my Powermac G5
> Quad  and AmigaOne X1000.

Please try the current images that I just created:

> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-05-14/
"



Tried just now, and installation of base system ends with error:

"An error was returned while tryingto install zstd package onto the target
system."




Tested on Powermac G5 Quad core. Sysylog is in attachment.

Please, may I post it somewhere, or is ir OK this way?







 
"
PS: Please always post into a new thread when starting a new topic.

Adrian
"



Martina

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

On 5/15/23 00:05, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

Hello!

On Wed, 2023-05-10 at 08:17 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote:

after several years I want to install Debian Sid again on my Powermac G5
Quad  and AmigaOne X1000.

Please try the current images that I just created:


Many thanks! I will try al let know.


https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-05-14/

PS: Please always post into a new thread when starting a new topic.

Adrian

Martina

Re: New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello!

On Wed, 2023-05-10 at 08:17 +0200, Martina Hřebcová wrote:
> after several years I want to install Debian Sid again on my Powermac G5 
> Quad  and AmigaOne X1000.

Please try the current images that I just created:

> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-05-14/

PS: Please always post into a new thread when starting a new topic.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer
`. `'   Physicist
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

New Debian Sid installation - how to?

[Martina Hřebcová]

Hi,

after several years I want to install Debian Sid again on my Powermac G5 
Quad  and AmigaOne X1000.


Please, what is the right steps for installing on Powermac G5?


1. I tried debian-11.0.0-ppc64-NETINST-1.iso from 
/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2022-12-09


but there is no hfs tools and installation fail


2. I tried debian-11.0.0-ppc64-NETINST-1.iso from 
/cdimage/ports/current, dated 2022-03-28


installation works ( with some issues with expired keys, which can be 
solved ) but in section "configuring grub-ieee1275" it hangs:


- /target/boot/grub is mounted, hfs formated, rw, and there is some 
other files, so is writable for sure


- last syslog messsages are:

 Creating config file /etc/default/grub with new version

 Installing for powerpc-ieee1275 platform


Please, first of all, what is the right last working installation .iso 
for ppc64 be ?


And are there needed some additional workarounds ( like were with grub 
in times of debian 10 / powerprogress.org ) ?



thanks


Martina

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

Le 07/08/2021 à 18:26, Stan Johnson a écrit :

On 8/7/21 8:35 AM, Christophe Leroy wrote:



Le 07/08/2021 à 15:09, Stan Johnson a écrit :

On 8/6/21 10:08 PM, Finn Thain wrote:


On Fri, 6 Aug 2021, Stan Johnson wrote:


$ egrep '(CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK)' .config
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y
$ strings vmlinux | fgrep "Linux version"
Linux version 5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd ...
$ cp vmlinux ../vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1

1) PB 3400c
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1
Boots, no errors logging in at (text) fb console. Logging in via ssh
and
running "ls -Rail /usr/include" generated errors (and a hung ssh
session). Once errors started, they repeated for almost every command.
See pb3400c-63e3756d1bdf-1.txt.

2) Wallstreet
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1
X login failed, there were errors ("Oops: Kernel access of bad area",
"Oops: Exception in kernel mode"). Logging in via SSH, there were no
additional errors after running "ls -Rail /usr/include" -- the errors
did not escalate as they did on the PB 3400.
See Wallstreet-63e3756d1bdf-1.txt.


...

$ egrep '(CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK)' .config
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y
# CONFIG_VMAP_STACK is not set
$ strings vmlinux | fgrep "Linux version"
Linux version 5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd ...
$ cp vmlinux ../vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2

3) PB 3400c
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2
Filesystem was corrupt from the previous test (probably from all the
errors during shutdown). After fixing the filesystem:
Boots, no errors logging in at (text) fb console. Logging in via ssh
and
running "ls -Rail /usr/include" generated a few errors. There didn't
seem to be as many errors as in the previous test, there were a few
errors during shutdown but the shutdown was otherwise normal.
See pb3400c-63e3756d1bdf-2.txt.

4) Wallstreet
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2
X login worked, and there were no errors. There were no errors during
ssh access.
See Wallstreet-63e3756d1bdf-2.txt.



Thanks for collecting these results, Stan. Do you think that the
successful result from test 4) could have been just chance?


No. I repeated Test 4 above two more times on the Wallstreet. After
stomping on it as hard as I could, I didn't see any errors. I ran the
following tests simultaneously, with no errors:

a) Ping flood the Wallstreet
862132 packets transmitted, 862117 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 0.316/0.418/12.163/0.143 ms

b) "ls -Rail /usr" in an ssh window.

c) "find /usr/include -type f -exec sha1sum {} \;" in a second ssh
window.

d) With a, b and c running, I logged in at the X console (slow but it
worked). Load average was 7.0 as reported by uptime.

So the success seems to be repeatable (or at least the errors are so
unlikely to happen that I'm not seeing anything).



It appears that the bug affecting the Powerbook 3400 is unaffected by
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK.

Whereas the bug affecting the Powerbook G3 disappears when
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK is disabled (assuming the result from 4 is reliable).

Either way, these results reiterate that "Oops: Kernel access of bad
area,
sig: 11" was not entirely resolved by "powerpc/32s: Fix napping
restore in
data storage interrupt (DSI)".



That sounds right. Thanks for investigating this.




Thanks a lot for your patience and for the tests.

I'm still having hard time understanding what the problem is.

Could you try the new change I pushed into the git repo ? It shouldn't
have any effect, but I prefer to eliminate all possibilities. The
documentation says that SRR1 upper bit are 0 on DSI and the code relies
on that. But if the doc is wrong then that can explain the problem. So
now I'm forcing it to 0 regardless.

To get the change, you just have to do 'git pull -r' inside the
directory where you checked out the sources and build.

Thanks again
Christophe



Thanks, Christophe.

In the same directory as previous builds:

$ git checkout chleroy-linux/bugtest
HEAD is now at 63e3756d1bdf powerpc/interrupts: Also perform KUAP/KUEP
lock and usertime accounting on NMI
$ git pull -r
You are not currently on a branch.
Please specify which branch you want to rebase against.
...
$ git pull -r chleroy-linux
remote: Enumerating objects: 6, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (6/6), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (6/6), done.
remote: Total 6 (delta 0), reused 6 (delta 0), pack-reused 0
Unpacking objects: 100% (6/6), done.
 From https://github.com/chleroy/linux
63e3756d1bdf..9023760b1361  bugtest-> chleroy-linux/bugtest
Updating 63e3756d1bdf..9023760b1361
Fast-forward
  arch/powerpc/kernel/head_book3s_32.S | 1 +
  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
HEAD is up to date.

Hopefully I did that right and ended up at the right spot.

For tests 5 and 6:

$ cp ../dot-config-powermac-5.13 .config
$ scripts/config -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG -e
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK
$ make ARCH=powerpc 

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

Le 07/08/2021 à 15:09, Stan Johnson a écrit :

On 8/6/21 10:08 PM, Finn Thain wrote:


On Fri, 6 Aug 2021, Stan Johnson wrote:


$ egrep '(CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK)' .config
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y
$ strings vmlinux | fgrep "Linux version"
Linux version 5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd ...
$ cp vmlinux ../vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1

1) PB 3400c
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1
Boots, no errors logging in at (text) fb console. Logging in via ssh and
running "ls -Rail /usr/include" generated errors (and a hung ssh
session). Once errors started, they repeated for almost every command.
See pb3400c-63e3756d1bdf-1.txt.

2) Wallstreet
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1
X login failed, there were errors ("Oops: Kernel access of bad area",
"Oops: Exception in kernel mode"). Logging in via SSH, there were no
additional errors after running "ls -Rail /usr/include" -- the errors
did not escalate as they did on the PB 3400.
See Wallstreet-63e3756d1bdf-1.txt.


...

$ egrep '(CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK)' .config
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y
# CONFIG_VMAP_STACK is not set
$ strings vmlinux | fgrep "Linux version"
Linux version 5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd ...
$ cp vmlinux ../vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2

3) PB 3400c
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2
Filesystem was corrupt from the previous test (probably from all the
errors during shutdown). After fixing the filesystem:
Boots, no errors logging in at (text) fb console. Logging in via ssh and
running "ls -Rail /usr/include" generated a few errors. There didn't
seem to be as many errors as in the previous test, there were a few
errors during shutdown but the shutdown was otherwise normal.
See pb3400c-63e3756d1bdf-2.txt.

4) Wallstreet
vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2
X login worked, and there were no errors. There were no errors during
ssh access.
See Wallstreet-63e3756d1bdf-2.txt.



Thanks for collecting these results, Stan. Do you think that the
successful result from test 4) could have been just chance?


No. I repeated Test 4 above two more times on the Wallstreet. After
stomping on it as hard as I could, I didn't see any errors. I ran the
following tests simultaneously, with no errors:

a) Ping flood the Wallstreet
862132 packets transmitted, 862117 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 0.316/0.418/12.163/0.143 ms

b) "ls -Rail /usr" in an ssh window.

c) "find /usr/include -type f -exec sha1sum {} \;" in a second ssh window.

d) With a, b and c running, I logged in at the X console (slow but it
worked). Load average was 7.0 as reported by uptime.

So the success seems to be repeatable (or at least the errors are so
unlikely to happen that I'm not seeing anything).



It appears that the bug affecting the Powerbook 3400 is unaffected by
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK.

Whereas the bug affecting the Powerbook G3 disappears when
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK is disabled (assuming the result from 4 is reliable).

Either way, these results reiterate that "Oops: Kernel access of bad area,
sig: 11" was not entirely resolved by "powerpc/32s: Fix napping restore in
data storage interrupt (DSI)".



That sounds right. Thanks for investigating this.




Thanks a lot for your patience and for the tests.

I'm still having hard time understanding what the problem is.

Could you try the new change I pushed into the git repo ? It shouldn't have any effect, but I prefer 
to eliminate all possibilities. The documentation says that SRR1 upper bit are 0 on DSI and the code 
relies on that. But if the doc is wrong then that can explain the problem. So now I'm forcing it to 
0 regardless.


To get the change, you just have to do 'git pull -r' inside the directory where you checked out the 
sources and build.


Thanks again
Christophe

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Finn Thain]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2021, Stan Johnson wrote:

> $ egrep '(CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK)' .config
> CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
> CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y
> CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y
> $ strings vmlinux | fgrep "Linux version"
> Linux version 5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd ...
> $ cp vmlinux ../vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1
> 
> 1) PB 3400c
> vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1
> Boots, no errors logging in at (text) fb console. Logging in via ssh and
> running "ls -Rail /usr/include" generated errors (and a hung ssh
> session). Once errors started, they repeated for almost every command.
> See pb3400c-63e3756d1bdf-1.txt.
> 
> 2) Wallstreet
> vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-1
> X login failed, there were errors ("Oops: Kernel access of bad area",
> "Oops: Exception in kernel mode"). Logging in via SSH, there were no
> additional errors after running "ls -Rail /usr/include" -- the errors
> did not escalate as they did on the PB 3400.
> See Wallstreet-63e3756d1bdf-1.txt.
> 
...
> $ egrep '(CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK)' .config
> CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
> CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y
> # CONFIG_VMAP_STACK is not set
> $ strings vmlinux | fgrep "Linux version"
> Linux version 5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd ...
> $ cp vmlinux ../vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2
> 
> 3) PB 3400c
> vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2
> Filesystem was corrupt from the previous test (probably from all the
> errors during shutdown). After fixing the filesystem:
> Boots, no errors logging in at (text) fb console. Logging in via ssh and
> running "ls -Rail /usr/include" generated a few errors. There didn't
> seem to be as many errors as in the previous test, there were a few
> errors during shutdown but the shutdown was otherwise normal.
> See pb3400c-63e3756d1bdf-2.txt.
> 
> 4) Wallstreet
> vmlinux-5.13.0-pmac-4-g63e3756d1bd-2
> X login worked, and there were no errors. There were no errors during
> ssh access.
> See Wallstreet-63e3756d1bdf-2.txt.
> 

Thanks for collecting these results, Stan. Do you think that the 
successful result from test 4) could have been just chance?

It appears that the bug affecting the Powerbook 3400 is unaffected by 
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK.

Whereas the bug affecting the Powerbook G3 disappears when 
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK is disabled (assuming the result from 4 is reliable).

Either way, these results reiterate that "Oops: Kernel access of bad area, 
sig: 11" was not entirely resolved by "powerpc/32s: Fix napping restore in 
data storage interrupt (DSI)".

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Finn Thain]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2021, Christophe Leroy wrote:

> 
> I have cooked a tentative fix for that KUAP stuff.
> Could you try the branch 'bugtest' at https://github.com/chleroy/linux.git
> 

Thanks, Christophe.

Stan, please test the following build.

$ git remote add chleroy-linux https://github.com/chleroy/linux.git -f -t 
bugtest
...
$ git checkout chleroy-linux/bugtest
HEAD is now at 63e3756d1bdf powerpc/interrupts: Also perform KUAP/KUEP lock and 
usertime accounting on NMI
$ cp ../dot-config-powermac-5.13 .config
$ scripts/config -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG -e 
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK
$ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean olddefconfig 
vmlinux
$ egrep "CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK" .config
$ strings vmlinux |grep "Linux version"

If that kernel produces errors, I'd try a second build as well:

$ scripts/config -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG -d 
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK
$ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean olddefconfig 
vmlinux
$ egrep "CONFIG_PPC_KUAP|CONFIG_VMAP_STACK" .config
$ strings vmlinux |grep "Linux version"

Please boot using the same kernel parameters as last time and capture the 
serial console logs. In case we're still dealing with intermittent bugs it 
might be necessary to repeat these tests so I suggest you retain the 
vmlinux files.

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

Le 06/08/2021 à 11:43, Finn Thain a écrit :

On Fri, 6 Aug 2021, Christophe Leroy wrote:



Can you check if they DO NOT happen at preceding commit c16728835~



$ git checkout c16728835~
Previous HEAD position was c16728835eec powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C
HEAD is now at 0b45359aa2df powerpc/8xx: Create C version of kuap
save/restore/check helpers
$ git am ../message.mbox
warning: Patch sent with format=flowed; space at the end of lines might be
lost.
Applying: powerpc/32: Dismantle EXC_XFER_STD/LITE/TEMPLATE
$ cp ../dot-config-powermac-5.13 .config
$ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean
olddefconfig vmlinux

Linux version 5.12.0-rc3-pmac-00077-gc9f6e8dd045

3) PB 3400c
Hangs at boot (Mac OS screen)

4) Wallstreet
X fails, errors in console log (different than test 2), see
Wallstreet_console-2.txt.



This log shows that the errors "xfce4-session[1775]: bus error (7)" and
"kernel BUG at arch/powerpc/kernel/interrupt.c:49!" happen prior to commit
c16728835eec ("powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C").


As mentionned by Nic, this is due to r11 being cloberred. For the time being
the only r11 clobber identified is the one I have provided a fix for. I'm
wondering whether it was applied for all further tests or not.



Your fix was applied to this build with "git am ../message.mbox".


Ok good.




...





Could you test with CONFIG_PPC_KUAP and CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG

...

$scripts/config -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP
$ scripts/config -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG
$ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean
olddefconfig vmlinux
$ grep CONFIG_PPC_KUAP .config
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y

Linux version 5.12.0-rc3-pmac-00078-g5cac2bc3752

9) PB 3400c
Hangs at boot (Mac OS screen)

10) Wallstreet
X failed at first login, worked at second login, one error in console
log ("BUG: Unable to handle kernel instruction fetch"), see
Wallstreet_console-5.txt.



One might expect to see "Kernel attempted to write user page (b3399774) -
exploit attempt?" again here (see c16728835eec build above) but instead
this log says "Oops: Kernel access of bad area, sig: 11".


Maybe the test should be done a second time. As r11 is garbage it may or
may not be a user address. If it is a user address the we get "Kernel
attempted to write user page". If it is a random kernel address, we
likely get "Kernel access of bad area" instead.



Your fix was applied here also.



Anyway, it would be worth trying to boot a few times more with the same kernel, because as I said 
the value is random, so it may or may not hit userspace, hence the possible difference of message, 
either "Kernel attempted to write user page" or "Kernel access of bad area" depending on whether the 
address is a user address or not.


I have cooked a tentative fix for that KUAP stuff.
Could you try the branch 'bugtest' at https://github.com/chleroy/linux.git

Thanks
Christophe

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Finn Thain]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2021, Christophe Leroy wrote:

> > > > > 
> > > > > Can you check if they DO NOT happen at preceding commit c16728835~
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > $ git checkout c16728835~
> > > Previous HEAD position was c16728835eec powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C
> > > HEAD is now at 0b45359aa2df powerpc/8xx: Create C version of kuap
> > > save/restore/check helpers
> > > $ git am ../message.mbox
> > > warning: Patch sent with format=flowed; space at the end of lines might be
> > > lost.
> > > Applying: powerpc/32: Dismantle EXC_XFER_STD/LITE/TEMPLATE
> > > $ cp ../dot-config-powermac-5.13 .config
> > > $ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean
> > > olddefconfig vmlinux
> > > 
> > > Linux version 5.12.0-rc3-pmac-00077-gc9f6e8dd045
> > > 
> > > 3) PB 3400c
> > > Hangs at boot (Mac OS screen)
> > > 
> > > 4) Wallstreet
> > > X fails, errors in console log (different than test 2), see
> > > Wallstreet_console-2.txt.
> > > 
> > 
> > This log shows that the errors "xfce4-session[1775]: bus error (7)" and
> > "kernel BUG at arch/powerpc/kernel/interrupt.c:49!" happen prior to commit
> > c16728835eec ("powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C").
> 
> As mentionned by Nic, this is due to r11 being cloberred. For the time being
> the only r11 clobber identified is the one I have provided a fix for. I'm
> wondering whether it was applied for all further tests or not.
> 

Your fix was applied to this build with "git am ../message.mbox".

> ...
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > Could you test with CONFIG_PPC_KUAP and CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > $scripts/config -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP
> > > $ scripts/config -e CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG
> > > $ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean
> > > olddefconfig vmlinux
> > > $ grep CONFIG_PPC_KUAP .config
> > > CONFIG_PPC_KUAP=y
> > > CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG=y
> > > 
> > > Linux version 5.12.0-rc3-pmac-00078-g5cac2bc3752
> > > 
> > > 9) PB 3400c
> > > Hangs at boot (Mac OS screen)
> > > 
> > > 10) Wallstreet
> > > X failed at first login, worked at second login, one error in console
> > > log ("BUG: Unable to handle kernel instruction fetch"), see
> > > Wallstreet_console-5.txt.
> > > 
> > 
> > One might expect to see "Kernel attempted to write user page (b3399774) -
> > exploit attempt?" again here (see c16728835eec build above) but instead
> > this log says "Oops: Kernel access of bad area, sig: 11".
> 
> Maybe the test should be done a second time. As r11 is garbage it may or 
> may not be a user address. If it is a user address the we get "Kernel 
> attempted to write user page". If it is a random kernel address, we 
> likely get "Kernel access of bad area" instead.
> 

Your fix was applied here also.

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

+nicholas piggin for the C interrupt stuff

Le 06/08/2021 à 03:06, Finn Thain a écrit :

(Christophe, you've seen some of this before, however there are new
results added at the end. I've Cc'd the mailing lists this time.)

On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, Stan Johnson wrote:


On 8/4/21 8:41 PM, Finn Thain wrote:



$ curl 
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/9b64dde3-6ebd-b446-41d9-61e8cb0d8...@csgroup.eu/raw
../message.mbox

ok

$ sha1 ../message.mbox
SHA1 (../message.mbox) = 436ce0adf893c46c84c54607f73c838897caeeea



On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, Christophe Leroy wrote:


Can you check if they happen at commit c16728835



$ git checkout c16728835eec
Checking out files: 100% (20728/20728), done.
Note: checking out 'c16728835eec'.

You are in 'detached HEAD' state. You can look around, make experimental
changes and commit them, and you can discard any commits you make in this
state without impacting any branches by performing another checkout.

If you want to create a new branch to retain commits you create, you may
do so (now or later) by using -b with the checkout command again. Example:

   git checkout -b 

HEAD is now at c16728835eec powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C
$ git am ../message.mbox
warning: Patch sent with format=flowed; space at the end of lines might be lost.
Applying: powerpc/32: Dismantle EXC_XFER_STD/LITE/TEMPLATE
$ cp ../dot-config-powermac-5.13 .config
$ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean olddefconfig 
vmlinux
$ strings vmlinux | fgrep 'Linux version'
Linux version 5.12.0-rc3-pmac-00078-geb51c431b81 (johnson@ThinkPad) 
(powerpc-linux-gnu-gcc (Debian 8.3.0-2) 8.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 
2.31.1) #1 SMP Wed Aug 4 21:50:47 MDT 2021

1) PB 3400c
Hangs at boot (Mac OS screen), no serial console output

2) Wallstreet
X fails, errors ("Kernel attempted to write user page", "BUG: Unable to
handle kernel instruction fetch"), see Wallstreet_console-1.txt.



The log shows that the error "Kernel attempted to write user page
(b3399774) - exploit attempt?" happens after commit c16728835eec
("powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C").


I think I found a possible cause for this. After the above patch, locking KUAP on interrupt is done 
in interrupt_enter_prepare(). But in case of NMI interrupt, that function is not called. That means 
that when leaving interrupt through interrupt_exit_kernel_prepare(), the supposedly saved previous 
KUAP status is garbage.


An easy way to fix that is to add missing stuff in interrupt_nmi_enter_prepare(), I'll do that at 
least for testing, but at the end it is not so easy, because of booke32 and 40x.


The problem on booke32 and 40x is that the "critical interrupts" exit goes through interrupt_return 
when they happened in user mode and bypass interrupt_return when they happened in kernel mode. So it 
is not easy to manage.







Can you check if they DO NOT happen at preceding commit c16728835~



$ git checkout c16728835~
Previous HEAD position was c16728835eec powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C
HEAD is now at 0b45359aa2df powerpc/8xx: Create C version of kuap 
save/restore/check helpers
$ git am ../message.mbox
warning: Patch sent with format=flowed; space at the end of lines might be lost.
Applying: powerpc/32: Dismantle EXC_XFER_STD/LITE/TEMPLATE
$ cp ../dot-config-powermac-5.13 .config
$ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean olddefconfig 
vmlinux

Linux version 5.12.0-rc3-pmac-00077-gc9f6e8dd045

3) PB 3400c
Hangs at boot (Mac OS screen)

4) Wallstreet
X fails, errors in console log (different than test 2), see
Wallstreet_console-2.txt.



This log shows that the errors "xfce4-session[1775]: bus error (7)" and
"kernel BUG at arch/powerpc/kernel/interrupt.c:49!" happen prior to commit
c16728835eec ("powerpc/32: Manage KUAP in C").


As mentionned by Nic, this is due to r11 being cloberred. For the time being the only r11 clobber 
identified is the one I have provided a fix for. I'm wondering whether it was applied for all 
further tests or not.






$ git checkout 0b45359aa2df
...
HEAD is now at 0b45359aa2df powerpc/8xx: Create C version of kuap 
save/restore/check helpers
$ git am ../message.mbox
warning: Patch sent with format=flowed; space at the end of lines might be lost.
Applying: powerpc/32: Dismantle EXC_XFER_STD/LITE/TEMPLATE
$ cp ../dot-config-powermac-5.13 .config
$ make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=powerpc-linux-gnu- -j4 clean olddefconfig 
vmlinux

Linux version 5.12.0-rc3-pmac-00077-ge06b29ce146

5) PB 3400c
Hangs at boot (Mac OS screen)

6) Wallstreet
X failed (X login succeeded, but setting up desktop failed), errors in
console log, see Wallstreet_console-3.txt.



(No need for those two tests: it's exactly the same code and almost the
same failure modes: "kernel BUG at arch/powerpc/kernel/interrupt.c:50".)

On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, Stan Johnson wrote:


On 8/5/21 12:47 AM, Finn Thain wrote:


On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, Christophe Leroy wrote:


Could you test without CONFIG_PPC_KUAP

...

$ git checkout c16728835eec
...
HEAD is now at 

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

Le 04/08/2021 à 02:34, Finn Thain a écrit :


On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, Christophe Leroy wrote:



Looks like the memory errors are linked to KUAP (Kernel Userspace Access
Protection). Based on the places the problems happen, I don't think
there are any invalid access, so there must be something wrong in the
KUAP logic, probably linked to some interrupts happenning in kernel mode
while the KUAP window is opened. And because is not selected by default
on book3s/32 until 5.14, probably nobody ever tested it in a real
environment before you.

I think the issue may be linked to commit
https://github.com/linuxppc/linux/commit/c16728835 which happened
between 5.12 and 5.13.


The messages, "Kernel attempted to write user page (c6207c) - exploit
attempt? (uid: 0)", appear in the console logs generated by v5.13. Those
logs come from the Powerbook G3 discussion in the other thread. Could that
be the same bug?



Yes, most likely.

So you confirm this appears with 5.13 and not 5.12 ?

Can you check if they happen at commit c16728835
Can you check if they DO NOT happen at preceding commit c16728835~

Could you test without CONFIG_PPC_KUAP
Could you test with CONFIG_PPC_KUAP and CONFIG_PPC_KUAP_DEBUG

Thanks
Christophe

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Finn Thain]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, Christophe Leroy wrote:

> 
> Looks like the memory errors are linked to KUAP (Kernel Userspace Access 
> Protection). Based on the places the problems happen, I don't think 
> there are any invalid access, so there must be something wrong in the 
> KUAP logic, probably linked to some interrupts happenning in kernel mode 
> while the KUAP window is opened. And because is not selected by default 
> on book3s/32 until 5.14, probably nobody ever tested it in a real 
> environment before you.
> 
> I think the issue may be linked to commit 
> https://github.com/linuxppc/linux/commit/c16728835 which happened 
> between 5.12 and 5.13.

The messages, "Kernel attempted to write user page (c6207c) - exploit 
attempt? (uid: 0)", appear in the console logs generated by v5.13. Those 
logs come from the Powerbook G3 discussion in the other thread. Could that 
be the same bug?

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Finn Thain]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, Stan Johnson wrote:

> 
> I'm not sure of the issue you are referencing. If it's the Wallstreet 
> issue, I believe we were waiting to hear back from you regarding the 
> memory errors that crop up with CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y and mem >464M. 
> Finn, if that is not correct, please let me know.
> 

No, it's not correct. I sent a message dated 3 Aug 2021 with a patch from 
Christophe. I also sent (privately) a message with instructions for 
testing that patch. I will resend these now.

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

Le 02/08/2021 à 19:32, Stan Johnson a écrit :

On 8/2/21 8:41 AM, Christophe Leroy wrote:



Le 31/07/2021 à 20:24, Stan Johnson a écrit :

Hi Christophe,

On 7/31/21 9:58 AM, Christophe Leroy wrote:

Stan Johnson  a écrit :


Hello,

The current Debian SID kernel will not boot on a PowerBook 3400c
running
the latest version of Debian SID. If booted using the BootX extension,
the kernel hangs immediately:

"Welcome to Linux, kernel 5.10.0-8-powerpc"

If booted from Mac OS, the Mac OS screen hangs.

Booting also hangs if the "No video driver" option is selected in
BootX,
"No video driver" causes "video=ofonly" to be passed to the kernel.

This is the current command line that I'm using in BootX:
root=/dev/sda13 video=chips65550:vmode:14,cmode:16

Kernel v5.9 works as expected.

The config file I'm using is attached.

Here are the results of a git bisect, marking v5.9 as "good" and the
most current kernel as "bad":

$ cd linux
$ git remote update
$ git bisect reset
$ git bisect start
$ git bisect bad
$ git bisect good v5.9

Note: "bad" -> hangs at boot; "good" -> boots to login prompt

   1) 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 (bad)
   2) 5.10.0-rc3-pmac-00383-gbb9dd3ce617 (good)
   3) 5.10.0-pmac-06637-g2911ed9f47b (good)
  Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
   4) 5.10.0-pmac-10584-g9805529ec54 (good)
  Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
   5) 5.10.0-pmac-12577-g8552d28e140 (bad)
   6) 5.10.0-pmac-11576-g8a5be36b930 (bad)
   7) 5.10.0-pmac-11044-gbe695ee29e8 (good)
  Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
   8) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00288-g59d512e4374 (bad)
   9) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00155-gc3d35ddd1ec (good)
10) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00221-g7049b288ea8 (good)
11) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00254-g4b74a35fc7e (bad)
12) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00237-ged22bb8d39f (good)
13) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00245-g87b57ea7e10 (good)
14) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00249-gf10881a46f8 (bad)
15) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00247-gf8a4b277c3c (good)
16) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00248-gdb972a3787d (bad)

db972a3787d12b1ce9ba7a31ec376d8a79e04c47 is the first bad commit


Not sure this is really the root of the problem.

Can you try again without CONFIG_VMAP_STACK ?

Thanks
Christophe
...



With CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y, 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 hangs at
boot on the PB 3400c.

Without CONFIG_VMAP_STACK, 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 boots as
expected.

I didn't re-build the Debian SID kernel, though I confirmed that the
Debian config file for 5.10.0-8-powerpc includes CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y.
It's not clear whether removing CONFIG_VMAP_STACK would be appropriate
for other powerpc systems.

Please let me know why removing CONFIG_VMAP_STACK fixed the problem on
the PB 3400c. Should CONFIG_HAVE_ARCH_VMAP_STACK also be removed?



When CONFIG_HAVE_ARCH_VMAP_STACK is selected by the architecture,
CONFIG_VMAP_STACK  is selected by default.

The point is that your config has CONFIG_ADB_PMU.

A bug with VMAP stack was detected during 5.9 release cycle for
platforms selecting CONFIG_ADB_PMU. Because fixing the bug was an heavy
change, we prefered at that time to disable VMAP stack, so VMAP stack
was deselected for CONFIG_ADB_PMU by commit
4a133eb351ccc275683ad49305d0b04dde903733.

Then as a second step, the proper fix was implemented and then VMAP
stack was enabled again by the commit you bisected.

Taking into account that the problem disappears for you when you
manually deselect VMAP stacks, it means the problem is not the fix
itself, but the fact that VMAP stacks are now enable by default.

We need to understand why VMAP stack doesn't work on your platform, more
than that why it doesn't boot at all with VMAP stack.

Could you send me the dmesg output of your system when it properly boots ?

Did you check with kernel 5.13 ?

Thanks
Christophe



Christophe,

Thanks for your response. It looks like I never tested v5.13 (I was
originally just reporting that the default Debian SID kernel,
5.10.0-8-powerpc, hangs at boot on the PB 3400c).

So I rebuilt the stock v5.13 from kernel.org using Finn's
dot-config-powermac-5.13, which got changed slightly at compilation (see
dot-config-v5.13-pmac, attached). It has CONFIG_VMAP_STACK and
CONFIG_ADB_PMU set, and it booted, but there were multiple memory
errors. So it looks like the hang-at-boot problem was fixed sometime
after v5.11, but there are now memory errors (similar to Wallstreet).

With CONFIG_VMAP_STACK not set (CONFIG_ADB_PMU is still set), the
.config file turns into the attached dot-config-v5.13-pmac_NO_VMAP. And
there were still memory errors (dmesg output attached).

The memory errors may be a completely unrelated issue, since they occur
regardless of the CONFIG_VMAP_STACK setting.

To help rule out a hardware issue, I confirmed that memory errors don't
occur with v5.8.2 (dmesg output attached).

A useful git bisect might be possible if CONFIG_VMAP_STACK is disabled
for each build. I would need to determine whe

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

Le 31/07/2021 à 20:24, Stan Johnson a écrit :

Hi Christophe,

On 7/31/21 9:58 AM, Christophe Leroy wrote:

Stan Johnson  a écrit :


Hello,

The current Debian SID kernel will not boot on a PowerBook 3400c running
the latest version of Debian SID. If booted using the BootX extension,
the kernel hangs immediately:

"Welcome to Linux, kernel 5.10.0-8-powerpc"

If booted from Mac OS, the Mac OS screen hangs.

Booting also hangs if the "No video driver" option is selected in BootX,
"No video driver" causes "video=ofonly" to be passed to the kernel.

This is the current command line that I'm using in BootX:
root=/dev/sda13 video=chips65550:vmode:14,cmode:16

Kernel v5.9 works as expected.

The config file I'm using is attached.

Here are the results of a git bisect, marking v5.9 as "good" and the
most current kernel as "bad":

$ cd linux
$ git remote update
$ git bisect reset
$ git bisect start
$ git bisect bad
$ git bisect good v5.9

Note: "bad" -> hangs at boot; "good" -> boots to login prompt

  1) 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 (bad)
  2) 5.10.0-rc3-pmac-00383-gbb9dd3ce617 (good)
  3) 5.10.0-pmac-06637-g2911ed9f47b (good)
     Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
  4) 5.10.0-pmac-10584-g9805529ec54 (good)
     Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
  5) 5.10.0-pmac-12577-g8552d28e140 (bad)
  6) 5.10.0-pmac-11576-g8a5be36b930 (bad)
  7) 5.10.0-pmac-11044-gbe695ee29e8 (good)
     Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
  8) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00288-g59d512e4374 (bad)
  9) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00155-gc3d35ddd1ec (good)
10) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00221-g7049b288ea8 (good)
11) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00254-g4b74a35fc7e (bad)
12) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00237-ged22bb8d39f (good)
13) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00245-g87b57ea7e10 (good)
14) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00249-gf10881a46f8 (bad)
15) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00247-gf8a4b277c3c (good)
16) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00248-gdb972a3787d (bad)

db972a3787d12b1ce9ba7a31ec376d8a79e04c47 is the first bad commit


Not sure this is really the root of the problem.

Can you try again without CONFIG_VMAP_STACK ?

Thanks
Christophe
...



With CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y, 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 hangs at
boot on the PB 3400c.

Without CONFIG_VMAP_STACK, 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 boots as
expected.

I didn't re-build the Debian SID kernel, though I confirmed that the
Debian config file for 5.10.0-8-powerpc includes CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y.
It's not clear whether removing CONFIG_VMAP_STACK would be appropriate
for other powerpc systems.

Please let me know why removing CONFIG_VMAP_STACK fixed the problem on
the PB 3400c. Should CONFIG_HAVE_ARCH_VMAP_STACK also be removed?



When CONFIG_HAVE_ARCH_VMAP_STACK is selected by the architecture, CONFIG_VMAP_STACK  is selected by 
default.


The point is that your config has CONFIG_ADB_PMU.

A bug with VMAP stack was detected during 5.9 release cycle for platforms selecting CONFIG_ADB_PMU. 
Because fixing the bug was an heavy change, we prefered at that time to disable VMAP stack, so VMAP 
stack was deselected for CONFIG_ADB_PMU by commit 4a133eb351ccc275683ad49305d0b04dde903733.


Then as a second step, the proper fix was implemented and then VMAP stack was enabled again by the 
commit you bisected.


Taking into account that the problem disappears for you when you manually deselect VMAP stacks, it 
means the problem is not the fix itself, but the fact that VMAP stacks are now enable by default.


We need to understand why VMAP stack doesn't work on your platform, more than that why it doesn't 
boot at all with VMAP stack.


Could you send me the dmesg output of your system when it properly boots ?

Did you check with kernel 5.13 ?

Thanks
Christophe

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Stan Johnson]

Hi Christophe,

On 7/31/21 9:58 AM, Christophe Leroy wrote:
> Stan Johnson  a écrit :
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> The current Debian SID kernel will not boot on a PowerBook 3400c running
>> the latest version of Debian SID. If booted using the BootX extension,
>> the kernel hangs immediately:
>>
>> "Welcome to Linux, kernel 5.10.0-8-powerpc"
>>
>> If booted from Mac OS, the Mac OS screen hangs.
>>
>> Booting also hangs if the "No video driver" option is selected in BootX,
>> "No video driver" causes "video=ofonly" to be passed to the kernel.
>>
>> This is the current command line that I'm using in BootX:
>> root=/dev/sda13 video=chips65550:vmode:14,cmode:16
>>
>> Kernel v5.9 works as expected.
>>
>> The config file I'm using is attached.
>>
>> Here are the results of a git bisect, marking v5.9 as "good" and the
>> most current kernel as "bad":
>>
>> $ cd linux
>> $ git remote update
>> $ git bisect reset
>> $ git bisect start
>> $ git bisect bad
>> $ git bisect good v5.9
>>
>> Note: "bad" -> hangs at boot; "good" -> boots to login prompt
>>
>>  1) 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 (bad)
>>  2) 5.10.0-rc3-pmac-00383-gbb9dd3ce617 (good)
>>  3) 5.10.0-pmac-06637-g2911ed9f47b (good)
>>     Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
>>  4) 5.10.0-pmac-10584-g9805529ec54 (good)
>>     Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
>>  5) 5.10.0-pmac-12577-g8552d28e140 (bad)
>>  6) 5.10.0-pmac-11576-g8a5be36b930 (bad)
>>  7) 5.10.0-pmac-11044-gbe695ee29e8 (good)
>>     Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
>>  8) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00288-g59d512e4374 (bad)
>>  9) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00155-gc3d35ddd1ec (good)
>> 10) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00221-g7049b288ea8 (good)
>> 11) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00254-g4b74a35fc7e (bad)
>> 12) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00237-ged22bb8d39f (good)
>> 13) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00245-g87b57ea7e10 (good)
>> 14) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00249-gf10881a46f8 (bad)
>> 15) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00247-gf8a4b277c3c (good)
>> 16) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00248-gdb972a3787d (bad)
>>
>> db972a3787d12b1ce9ba7a31ec376d8a79e04c47 is the first bad commit
> 
> Not sure this is really the root of the problem.
> 
> Can you try again without CONFIG_VMAP_STACK ?
> 
> Thanks
> Christophe
> ...


With CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y, 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 hangs at
boot on the PB 3400c.

Without CONFIG_VMAP_STACK, 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 boots as
expected.

I didn't re-build the Debian SID kernel, though I confirmed that the
Debian config file for 5.10.0-8-powerpc includes CONFIG_VMAP_STACK=y.
It's not clear whether removing CONFIG_VMAP_STACK would be appropriate
for other powerpc systems.

Please let me know why removing CONFIG_VMAP_STACK fixed the problem on
the PB 3400c. Should CONFIG_HAVE_ARCH_VMAP_STACK also be removed?

thanks

-Stan Johnson

Re: Debian SID kernel doesn't boot on PowerBook 3400c

[Christophe Leroy]

Stan Johnson  a écrit :


Hello,

The current Debian SID kernel will not boot on a PowerBook 3400c running
the latest version of Debian SID. If booted using the BootX extension,
the kernel hangs immediately:

"Welcome to Linux, kernel 5.10.0-8-powerpc"

If booted from Mac OS, the Mac OS screen hangs.

Booting also hangs if the "No video driver" option is selected in BootX,
"No video driver" causes "video=ofonly" to be passed to the kernel.

This is the current command line that I'm using in BootX:
root=/dev/sda13 video=chips65550:vmode:14,cmode:16

Kernel v5.9 works as expected.

The config file I'm using is attached.

Here are the results of a git bisect, marking v5.9 as "good" and the
most current kernel as "bad":

$ cd linux
$ git remote update
$ git bisect reset
$ git bisect start
$ git bisect bad
$ git bisect good v5.9

Note: "bad" -> hangs at boot; "good" -> boots to login prompt

 1) 5.11.0-rc5-pmac-00034-g684da7628d9 (bad)
 2) 5.10.0-rc3-pmac-00383-gbb9dd3ce617 (good)
 3) 5.10.0-pmac-06637-g2911ed9f47b (good)
Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
 4) 5.10.0-pmac-10584-g9805529ec54 (good)
Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
 5) 5.10.0-pmac-12577-g8552d28e140 (bad)
 6) 5.10.0-pmac-11576-g8a5be36b930 (bad)
 7) 5.10.0-pmac-11044-gbe695ee29e8 (good)
Note: I had to disable SMP to build this kernel.
 8) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00288-g59d512e4374 (bad)
 9) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00155-gc3d35ddd1ec (good)
10) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00221-g7049b288ea8 (good)
11) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00254-g4b74a35fc7e (bad)
12) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00237-ged22bb8d39f (good)
13) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00245-g87b57ea7e10 (good)
14) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00249-gf10881a46f8 (bad)
15) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00247-gf8a4b277c3c (good)
16) 5.10.0-rc2-pmac-00248-gdb972a3787d (bad)

db972a3787d12b1ce9ba7a31ec376d8a79e04c47 is the first bad commit


Not sure this is really the root of the problem.

Can you try again without CONFIG_VMAP_STACK ?

Thanks
Christophe



commit db972a3787d12b1ce9ba7a31ec376d8a79e04c47
Author: Christophe Leroy 
Date:   Tue Dec 8 05:24:19 2020 +

powerpc/powermac: Fix low_sleep_handler with CONFIG_VMAP_STACK

low_sleep_handler() can't restore the context from standard
stack because the stack can hardly be accessed with MMU OFF.

Store everything in a global storage area instead of storing
a pointer to the stack in that global storage area.

To avoid a complete churn of the function, still use r1 as
the pointer to the storage area during restore.

Fixes: cd08f109e262 ("powerpc/32s: Enable CONFIG_VMAP_STACK")
Reported-by: Giuseppe Sacco 
Signed-off-by: Christophe Leroy 
Tested-by: Giuseppe Sacco 
Signed-off-by: Michael Ellerman 
Link:
https://lore.kernel.org/r/e3e0d8042a3ba75cb4a9546c19c408b5b5b28994.1607404931.git.christophe.le...@csgroup.eu

:04 04 d5039513d19748fc13712a2c67ae034371b95fe7
cbbdbdc4b05c713ea2577674260fd37e71306cc0 M  arch

Please let me know if you need more information.

-Stan Johnson

Re: Bug#952769: isc-dhcp-client: Package "isc-dhcp-client" is not installable in the Debian SID PowerPC Port. Unmet dependencies: "libdns1107" and "libisc1104"

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello!

This was fixed with a rebuild several months ago, so this can be closed.

In the future, please report uninstallability issues to 
debian-$a...@lists.debian.org,
i.e. debian-po...@lists.debian.org.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Building debian-installer CD images - was: Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 11/13/20 6:38 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> You don't need to build debian-installer manually and you don't need
> to include the bootloader installers manually.

Small addendum: You will most likely have to build debian-installer manually
since the kernel ABI used in debian-installer's build/config/common and
the ABI of the kernel in Debian unstable will deviate very quickly (it currently
has).

But in case you don't have to rebuild debian-installer manually - usually that's
the case when debian-installer was recently updated in unstable - you can just
fetch the images tarball from [1]. Just adjust the architecture in the URL
if you want debian-installer for something other than powerpc.

Adrian

> [1] 
> http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-powerpc/main/d/debian-installer/

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Building debian-installer CD images - was: Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 11/13/20 5:55 PM, Anatoly Pugachev wrote:
> It would nice to have instructions on how to build an iso image,
> probably step by step,
> since all my attempts to build something bootable on sparc64 and/or
> ppc64 actually failed.

It doesn't really involve much. You can mostly follow Helge's instructions
from [1].

You don't need to build debian-installer manually and you don't need
to include the bootloader installers manually.

Just create a local repository copy of Debian Ports with reprepro and
make sure you include both unstable and unreleased.

Then edit CONF.sh and easy-build.sh to work with Debian Ports and your local
mirror paths. You can just use script versions attached to this mail, just
edit "MIRROR", "OUT" and "APTTMP" in CONF.sh to match your personal setup.

In easy-build.sh, you also must set the path to where the debian-installer
images can be found, e.g.:

export DI_DIR="/home/glaubitz/d-i/%ARCH%/installer-%ARCH%/current/images/"

I usually build current d-i images locally (natively or with qemu-user),
then copy the resulting tarball into /home/glaubitz/d-i on the CD building
machine and extract the tarball there which includes the folder installer-$ARCH.

You just have to make sure the kernel packages that are in your local repo
have the same _ABI_ (not kernel) version as the kernel in the debian-installer
you are using.

For example, if you have "linux-image-5.9.0-2-powerpc_5.9.6-1_powerpc.deb" in
the mirror in $MIRROR/debian-ports/pool-powerpc/main/l/linux/, then 
debian-installer
must have been built with "LINUX_KERNEL_ABI ?= 5.9.0-2" in build/config/common.

You can just build debian-installer locally with a regular sbuild setup.

Then build an image with:

# ./easy-build-ports.sh NETINST powerpc # or whatever arch you want

That's it.

If you run into any problems, let me know and I'll help you.

Oh, and for m68k, you need to use genisoimage from cdrkit instead of xorriso 
since
the latter does not support legacy HFS filesystems yet (also something that I
would like to see fixed upstream):

export MKISOFS="xorriso"
export MKISOFS_OPTS="-as mkisofs -r -checksum_algorithm_iso md5,sha256,sha512"
export m68k_MKISOFS="genisoimage"
export m68k_MKISOFS_OPTS="-r -checksum_algorithm_iso md5,sha256,sha512"

Adrian

> [1] 
> https://parisc.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/How_to_create_Debian_unstable_iso_images

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913



easy-build-ports.sh
Description: application/shellscript


CONF-ports.sh
Description: application/shellscript

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Anatoly Pugachev]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 3:39 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
 wrote:
> On 11/13/20 1:31 PM, Anatoly Pugachev wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 3:21 PM Deinsti Suski
> >  wrote:
> >> We would like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions
> >> and I hope that our discoveries help in anyway
> >> If you'd like to know more then don't hesitate to ask
> >
> > I wonder if it is still possible to give an option to install yaboot
> > (besides of grub) when installing on powerpc hardware...
>
> The problem with such suggestions is that all that works ends up with
> me as there is no one else willing to help with the PowerPC port at
> the moment.
>
> And since I don't have unlimited time and resources available, I limit
> my work to the packages that are part of the Debian distribution.
>
> I also have doubts that GRUB is not compatible with some IBM POWER
> machines as this would be something IBM developers would have reported
> and fixed.

It would nice to have instructions on how to build an iso image,
probably step by step,
since all my attempts to build something bootable on sparc64 and/or
ppc64 actually failed.

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Deinsti Suski]

We were honestly surprised ourselves, but no matter what we did - the
furthest we got was 'Welcome to GRUB!' and never any further - I'll have a
closer look into the firmware aspect of it - maybe there is an issue that
is preventing GRUB from working correctly tho like you already mentioned,
Yaboot does work (if installed via the Debian installer) so what exactly is
the issue is hard to tell right now.
If we find anything useful I'll report back

Dein

On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 12:34, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <
glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

> On 11/13/20 1:20 PM, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> > So the important factors we came to conclude was that;
> > the pSeries (550 but maybe other models too) cannot boot from GRUB,
> > potentially a firmware issue but not confirmed as the system log reports
> no
> > errors/warnings
> > Yaboot has to be installed by the Debian installer itself, manual
> > installation of Yaboot (chroot/rescue mode) will result in a broken
> Yaboot
> > which is unable to load it's own configuration file (Results in issue
> > stated when we first asked for help - Unsure if it's yabootconfig or
> yaboot
> > itself because in both cases the system still can't detect the .conf and
> > neither process throws any anomalies in the logs during
> > yabootconfig/installing to PreP)
>
> I honestly have a hard time believing that GRUB wouldn't work on the
> pSeries
> 550 when Yaboot works. I have a pSeries 750 at home and will at some point
> try to install Debian on it, too.
>
> I would suggest updating the firmware in your case. If that still doesn't
> help,
> it should be reported as a bug against GRUB upstream.
>
> Adrian
>
> --
>  .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
> : :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
> `. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
>   `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
>
>

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 11/13/20 1:31 PM, Anatoly Pugachev wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 3:21 PM Deinsti Suski
>  wrote:
>> We would like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions
>> and I hope that our discoveries help in anyway
>> If you'd like to know more then don't hesitate to ask
> 
> I wonder if it is still possible to give an option to install yaboot
> (besides of grub) when installing on powerpc hardware...

The problem with such suggestions is that all that works ends up with
me as there is no one else willing to help with the PowerPC port at
the moment.

And since I don't have unlimited time and resources available, I limit
my work to the packages that are part of the Debian distribution.

I also have doubts that GRUB is not compatible with some IBM POWER
machines as this would be something IBM developers would have reported
and fixed.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 11/13/20 1:20 PM, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> So the important factors we came to conclude was that;
> the pSeries (550 but maybe other models too) cannot boot from GRUB,
> potentially a firmware issue but not confirmed as the system log reports no
> errors/warnings
> Yaboot has to be installed by the Debian installer itself, manual
> installation of Yaboot (chroot/rescue mode) will result in a broken Yaboot
> which is unable to load it's own configuration file (Results in issue
> stated when we first asked for help - Unsure if it's yabootconfig or yaboot
> itself because in both cases the system still can't detect the .conf and
> neither process throws any anomalies in the logs during
> yabootconfig/installing to PreP)

I honestly have a hard time believing that GRUB wouldn't work on the pSeries
550 when Yaboot works. I have a pSeries 750 at home and will at some point
try to install Debian on it, too.

I would suggest updating the firmware in your case. If that still doesn't help,
it should be reported as a bug against GRUB upstream.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Anatoly Pugachev]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 3:21 PM Deinsti Suski
 wrote:
> We would like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions and I hope 
> that our discoveries help in anyway
> If you'd like to know more then don't hesitate to ask

I wonder if it is still possible to give an option to install yaboot
(besides of grub) when installing on powerpc hardware...

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Deinsti Suski]

Quite a late email cause I forgot to give a status update on the server

After intensive testing, we managed to get SID to install on the pSeries
550 - What we had to do was obtain the last Debian SID ppc64 netinst which
still included Yaboot as a bootloader "*during install*" - this ended up
being the May 20th 2019 ISO and we ended up still using a USB to avoid
wasting too many CD's, we then had to load into expert mode and choose to
install Yaboot as a bootloader instead of GRUB (we decided to use an all in
/ ext3 partition for best compatibility) - once installation was completed,
everything worked as expected

So the important factors we came to conclude was that;
the pSeries (550 but maybe other models too) cannot boot from GRUB,
potentially a firmware issue but not confirmed as the system log reports no
errors/warnings
Yaboot has to be installed by the Debian installer itself, manual
installation of Yaboot (chroot/rescue mode) will result in a broken Yaboot
which is unable to load it's own configuration file (Results in issue
stated when we first asked for help - Unsure if it's yabootconfig or yaboot
itself because in both cases the system still can't detect the .conf and
neither process throws any anomalies in the logs during
yabootconfig/installing to PreP)

We would like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions and I hope
that our discoveries help in anyway
If you'd like to know more then don't hesitate to ask

Deinsti and Daniel

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 14:59, Lennart Sorensen 
wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 02:48:03PM +, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> > Hello Len
> >
> > 1; Yes, we are using the MBR Partition table
> > 2; the PreP partition is 8MB and has the Boot flag set to on
> > 3; Debian is running on bare-metal, no hypervisor involved
> > 3; Correct, the installer boots with no issues at all and it's only after
> > the reboot when try to boot the installation from the HDD that both
> > bootloaders just stall/fail
> > 4; We are using a 1GB USB Memory stick as the installation media
> > 5; we are using the Debian 10 SID NETINST for PPC64 dated 2020-05-30, the
> > reason we're not using the latest snapshot is because the latest one
> > (2020-10-13) fails with 'missing-firmware /dev/.udev missing firmware'
> and
> > the installation media fails to mount
> >
> > If you need any more information don't hesitate to ask
>
> Well you are doing everything I remember doing (although at the time I
> was using powerpc not ppc64 but I doubt that matters), and I used a CD,
> not USB to boot.  No idea if that makes any difference.  Hopefully it
> isn't confused by which disk is sda vs sdb due to the usb stick.
>
> I had successful installs in the past (but probably 5 or 6 years ago now)
> on p520 (power6) and p710 (power7) hardware both booting from CD.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
>

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 02:48:03PM +, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> Hello Len
> 
> 1; Yes, we are using the MBR Partition table
> 2; the PreP partition is 8MB and has the Boot flag set to on
> 3; Debian is running on bare-metal, no hypervisor involved
> 3; Correct, the installer boots with no issues at all and it's only after
> the reboot when try to boot the installation from the HDD that both
> bootloaders just stall/fail
> 4; We are using a 1GB USB Memory stick as the installation media
> 5; we are using the Debian 10 SID NETINST for PPC64 dated 2020-05-30, the
> reason we're not using the latest snapshot is because the latest one
> (2020-10-13) fails with 'missing-firmware /dev/.udev missing firmware' and
> the installation media fails to mount
> 
> If you need any more information don't hesitate to ask

Well you are doing everything I remember doing (although at the time I
was using powerpc not ppc64 but I doubt that matters), and I used a CD,
not USB to boot.  No idea if that makes any difference.  Hopefully it
isn't confused by which disk is sda vs sdb due to the usb stick.

I had successful installs in the past (but probably 5 or 6 years ago now)
on p520 (power6) and p710 (power7) hardware both booting from CD.

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Deinsti Suski]

Hello Adrian

Sure thing, when I get back home I will make a new installation media with
Wheezy on it

any specific installation instructions? or should we just install it
normally

Dein

On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 at 18:59, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <
glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

> On 11/1/20 10:24 PM, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> > The hardware is an IBM pSeries 550 Server
> > Processors: 4x IBM POWER6 cards with 2-Cores at 4GHz each (Total: 8
> Cores)
> > RAM: 92GB
> > HDD: Single 300GB drive (No RAID)
> >
> >
> > Do you have any suggestions on how to get this system to boot?
>
> Can you first try installing some of the older releases, such as
> Debian Wheezy? [1]
>
> Adrian
>
> > [1] https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/7.11.0/powerpc/iso-cd/
>
> --
>  .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
> : :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
> `. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
>   `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
>
>

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Deinsti Suski]

Hello Len

1; Yes, we are using the MBR Partition table
2; the PreP partition is 8MB and has the Boot flag set to on
3; Debian is running on bare-metal, no hypervisor involved
3; Correct, the installer boots with no issues at all and it's only after
the reboot when try to boot the installation from the HDD that both
bootloaders just stall/fail
4; We are using a 1GB USB Memory stick as the installation media
5; we are using the Debian 10 SID NETINST for PPC64 dated 2020-05-30, the
reason we're not using the latest snapshot is because the latest one
(2020-10-13) fails with 'missing-firmware /dev/.udev missing firmware' and
the installation media fails to mount

If you need any more information don't hesitate to ask

--
Dein


On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 at 18:50, Lennart Sorensen 
wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 09:24:08PM +, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> > Recently me and a friend of mine have been trying to install Debian Sid
> on
> > an IBM pSeries 550 server to no avail; we have attempted a variety of
> > methods such as installing GRUB with everything on an / ext4 partition,
> > GRUB with a separate ext2 /boot and ext4 /, Yaboot with everything on an
> > ext4 / and Yaboot with a ext2 /boot and ext4 / - however none of them
> work;
> >
> > For GRUB, it just freezes at 'Welcome to GRUB!' with no disk activity and
> > it never continues no matter the partition setup while for Yaboot, it
> > always fails at
> > "can't get  for device: 
> > :-1,ls: Unable to open file, Invalid device"
> >
> > we tried altering yaboot.conf by swapping out uuid's with /dev/sda2 among
> > other things but no matter what it's always the same error
> >
> > The hardware is an IBM pSeries 550 Server
> > Processors: 4x IBM POWER6 cards with 2-Cores at 4GHz each (Total: 8
> Cores)
> > RAM: 92GB
> > HDD: Single 300GB drive (No RAID)
> >
> > Do you have any suggestions on how to get this system to boot?
>
> I haven't done an install in quite a few years but I have a few question:
>
> Are you using dos partition table (MBR style)?
> How large is the PREP boot partition?  Is it set as bootable?
>
> I seem to recall an 8MB prep boot partition is pretty standard and should
> be plenty for grub.
>
> Are you running on bare metal or is there a hypervisor involved?
>
> Does the installer boot fine and only the system after installation
> won't boot?
>
> What media are you booting the installer from?
>
> Which installer image are you using?
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
>

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 11/1/20 10:24 PM, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> The hardware is an IBM pSeries 550 Server
> Processors: 4x IBM POWER6 cards with 2-Cores at 4GHz each (Total: 8 Cores)
> RAM: 92GB
> HDD: Single 300GB drive (No RAID)
> 
> 
> Do you have any suggestions on how to get this system to boot?

Can you first try installing some of the older releases, such as
Debian Wheezy? [1]

Adrian

> [1] https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/7.11.0/powerpc/iso-cd/
 
-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 09:24:08PM +, Deinsti Suski wrote:
> Recently me and a friend of mine have been trying to install Debian Sid on
> an IBM pSeries 550 server to no avail; we have attempted a variety of
> methods such as installing GRUB with everything on an / ext4 partition,
> GRUB with a separate ext2 /boot and ext4 /, Yaboot with everything on an
> ext4 / and Yaboot with a ext2 /boot and ext4 / - however none of them work;
> 
> For GRUB, it just freezes at 'Welcome to GRUB!' with no disk activity and
> it never continues no matter the partition setup while for Yaboot, it
> always fails at
> "can't get  for device: 
> :-1,ls: Unable to open file, Invalid device"
> 
> we tried altering yaboot.conf by swapping out uuid's with /dev/sda2 among
> other things but no matter what it's always the same error
> 
> The hardware is an IBM pSeries 550 Server
> Processors: 4x IBM POWER6 cards with 2-Cores at 4GHz each (Total: 8 Cores)
> RAM: 92GB
> HDD: Single 300GB drive (No RAID)
> 
> Do you have any suggestions on how to get this system to boot?

I haven't done an install in quite a few years but I have a few question:

Are you using dos partition table (MBR style)?
How large is the PREP boot partition?  Is it set as bootable?

I seem to recall an 8MB prep boot partition is pretty standard and should
be plenty for grub.

Are you running on bare metal or is there a hypervisor involved?

Does the installer boot fine and only the system after installation
won't boot?

What media are you booting the installer from?

Which installer image are you using?

-- 
Len Sorensen

Debian Sid PPC64 / IBM pSeries 550 --- Bootloaders don't work after succesful install

[Deinsti Suski]

Recently me and a friend of mine have been trying to install Debian Sid on
an IBM pSeries 550 server to no avail; we have attempted a variety of
methods such as installing GRUB with everything on an / ext4 partition,
GRUB with a separate ext2 /boot and ext4 /, Yaboot with everything on an
ext4 / and Yaboot with a ext2 /boot and ext4 / - however none of them work;

For GRUB, it just freezes at 'Welcome to GRUB!' with no disk activity and
it never continues no matter the partition setup while for Yaboot, it
always fails at
"can't get  for device: 
:-1,ls: Unable to open file, Invalid device"

we tried altering yaboot.conf by swapping out uuid's with /dev/sda2 among
other things but no matter what it's always the same error

The hardware is an IBM pSeries 550 Server
Processors: 4x IBM POWER6 cards with 2-Cores at 4GHz each (Total: 8 Cores)
RAM: 92GB
HDD: Single 300GB drive (No RAID)


Do you have any suggestions on how to get this system to boot?

Re: how to building a custom kernel in Debian sid

[Jeroen Diederen]

Hi,

I did some extensive hardware testing and I found out that my DIMM RAM 
module is not ok. You were right Adrian, thanks!


John Paul Adrian Glaubitz schreef op 2020-06-17 08:59:

Hello!

On 6/17/20 8:15 AM, Jeroen Diederen wrote:
I tried several times to build a custom kernel in Debian sid. Each 
time I get segmentation
faults or other errors and automatic building in pbuilder also does 
not work.


If you are seeing segmentation faults during a normal kernel compile,
you most likely
have bad memory or other hardware problems. Segmentation faults should
never happen
during a normal kernel build, even if you mess up the documentation.

Can someone please give me a link to documentation that will lead to 
success?



https://wiki.debian.org/BuildADebianKernelPackage


All I want is a ppc64 kernel with 4K PAGES to test nouveau on my iMac 
G5 with nVidia card.


I haven't had the time to work on the PowerPC stuff lately and since
there is no one willing
to help with the port at the moment, things are taking longer.

Adrian

Re: how to building a custom kernel in Debian sid

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 6/17/20 8:59 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 6/17/20 8:15 AM, Jeroen Diederen wrote:
>> I tried several times to build a custom kernel in Debian sid. Each time I 
>> get segmentation
>> faults or other errors and automatic building in pbuilder also does not work.
> 
> If you are seeing segmentation faults during a normal kernel compile, you 
> most likely
> have bad memory or other hardware problems. Segmentation faults should never 
> happen
> during a normal kernel build, even if you mess up the documentation.

"mess up the configuration", not documentation.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: how to building a custom kernel in Debian sid

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello!

On 6/17/20 8:15 AM, Jeroen Diederen wrote:
> I tried several times to build a custom kernel in Debian sid. Each time I get 
> segmentation
> faults or other errors and automatic building in pbuilder also does not work.

If you are seeing segmentation faults during a normal kernel compile, you most 
likely
have bad memory or other hardware problems. Segmentation faults should never 
happen
during a normal kernel build, even if you mess up the documentation.

> Can someone please give me a link to documentation that will lead to success?

> https://wiki.debian.org/BuildADebianKernelPackage

> All I want is a ppc64 kernel with 4K PAGES to test nouveau on my iMac G5 with 
> nVidia card.

I haven't had the time to work on the PowerPC stuff lately and since there is 
no one willing
to help with the port at the moment, things are taking longer.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

how to building a custom kernel in Debian sid

[Jeroen Diederen]

Hi all,

I tried several times to build a custom kernel in Debian sid. Each time I get 
segmentation faults or other errors and automatic building in pbuilder also 
does not work.
Can someone please give me a link to documentation that will lead to success?

All I want is a ppc64 kernel with 4K PAGES to test nouveau on my iMac G5 with 
nVidia card.

Best regards,
Jeroen Diederen

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[jjhdiederen]

Hi all,

I have to get myself acquainted to git as this is the first time I am 
using this tool. I did some playing around and I made my first commit 
into my own git repo at 
https://salsa.debian.org/mintppc/website-powerpc. The file can be seen 
there. Please tell me if what I did is right.


Regards
Jeroen

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz schreef op 2020-05-15 21:43:

On 5/15/20 9:18 PM, jjhdiederen wrote:
Where can I transfer the edited index.wml file for you guys to read 
and comment?


On Salsa, in your home project.

Adrian

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[jjhdiederen]

Oviously I have hyperlinks, but you don’t see them here.

Rick Thomas schreef op 2020-05-16 01:11:

Thanks for this!  A useful history.  But I think some links for the
references would be very helpful.
Rick

On Fri, May 15, 2020, at 12:18 PM, jjhdiederen wrote:

I made a little progress. I edited the index.wml file in
webwml/english/ports/powerpc and made the corresponding html file. It
looks good, it reads like this:

...
Debian on 32-bit PowerPC (powerpc)

It first became an official "release architecture" with Debian 
GNU/Linux

2.2 ("potato") and had retained that status until the publication of
Debian 9 ("stretch"). The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is
Debian 8 ("jessie"). See the release note and installation manual for
further information. Since the powerpc architecture is no longer
officially supported, the repository of powerpc can be found at the
Debian ports website. The latest installer images can be found at
cdimage ports.
Debian on 64-bit PowerPC (ppc64)

In 2012 the ppc64 architecture was added to the Debian ports site. 
More

information about this port can be found at the ppc64 wiki. The latest
installer images can be found at cdimage ports.
Debian on 64-bit Little Endian PowerPC (ppc64el).

Where can I transfer the edited index.wml file for you guys to read 
and

comment?

Jeroen

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[Rick Thomas]

Thanks for this!  A useful history.  But I think some links for the references 
would be very helpful.
Rick

On Fri, May 15, 2020, at 12:18 PM, jjhdiederen wrote:
> I made a little progress. I edited the index.wml file in 
> webwml/english/ports/powerpc and made the corresponding html file. It 
> looks good, it reads like this:
> 
> ...
> Debian on 32-bit PowerPC (powerpc)
> 
> It first became an official "release architecture" with Debian GNU/Linux 
> 2.2 ("potato") and had retained that status until the publication of 
> Debian 9 ("stretch"). The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is 
> Debian 8 ("jessie"). See the release note and installation manual for 
> further information. Since the powerpc architecture is no longer 
> officially supported, the repository of powerpc can be found at the 
> Debian ports website. The latest installer images can be found at 
> cdimage ports.
> Debian on 64-bit PowerPC (ppc64)
> 
> In 2012 the ppc64 architecture was added to the Debian ports site. More 
> information about this port can be found at the ppc64 wiki. The latest 
> installer images can be found at cdimage ports.
> Debian on 64-bit Little Endian PowerPC (ppc64el).
> 
> Where can I transfer the edited index.wml file for you guys to read and 
> comment?
> 
> Jeroen
> 
>

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 5/15/20 9:18 PM, jjhdiederen wrote:
> Where can I transfer the edited index.wml file for you guys to read and 
> comment?

On Salsa, in your home project.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[jjhdiederen]

I made a little progress. I edited the index.wml file in 
webwml/english/ports/powerpc and made the corresponding html file. It 
looks good, it reads like this:


...
Debian on 32-bit PowerPC (powerpc)

It first became an official "release architecture" with Debian GNU/Linux 
2.2 ("potato") and had retained that status until the publication of 
Debian 9 ("stretch"). The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is 
Debian 8 ("jessie"). See the release note and installation manual for 
further information. Since the powerpc architecture is no longer 
officially supported, the repository of powerpc can be found at the 
Debian ports website. The latest installer images can be found at 
cdimage ports.

Debian on 64-bit PowerPC (ppc64)

In 2012 the ppc64 architecture was added to the Debian ports site. More 
information about this port can be found at the ppc64 wiki. The latest 
installer images can be found at cdimage ports.

Debian on 64-bit Little Endian PowerPC (ppc64el).

Where can I transfer the edited index.wml file for you guys to read and 
comment?


Jeroen

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[H]

Thanks for the help Jeroen!
I'll look into what I can help, too.

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:07 AM jjhdiederen  wrote:

> I found the main website of Debian in the meantime. It can be found
> here:
> https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml
>
> I cloned the whole thing and I am now in the process of building the
> corresponding
> HTML pages from the .wml files using wml.
>
> I will add more info when needed.
>
> Jeroen
>
> jjhdiederen schreef op 2020-05-15 15:17:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I had a quick look at the git clone of the Debian ports website. What
> > Hao however is referring to is
> > https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/ (1)
> > which is outdated, not only the debian ports website
> > https://www.ports.debian.org/ (2). Can I make changes somewhere to (1)
> > ?  Where can I find the git info on that site?
> >
> > I am also willing to edit the debian ports website (2) if needed.
> >
> > Jeroen
> >
> > Jeroen Diederen schreef op 2020-05-15 11:19:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am willing to have a look at the Debian-ports website and make
> >> appropriate changes.
> >>
> >> Jeroen
> >>
> >> On May 15, 2020, at 8:29 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Hao!
> >>>
> >>> On 5/15/20 5:59 AM, H wrote:
>  The biggest pain in the whole process is finding this link, as the
>  official
>  powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is
>  seriously
>  outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64) hints
>  that
>  the port is still active, but still not offering download as it is
>  mainly
>  focused on build status. And it takes me a while to realize 'ppc64'
>  is
>  literally the name of a port (the official ppc page doesn't mention
>  it at
>  all)!
> 
>  So my 2 suggestions are:
>  1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in
>  official
>  powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
>  2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc
>  port,
>  and clearly states their intended use, in that page.
> >>>
> >>> I suggest that you create a wiki account for yourself and start
> >>> editing the
> >>> wiki pages. For the website, you can create an account on Salsa, then
> >>> clone
> >>> the website repository [1], make the changes and open a pull request.
> >>>
> >>> I'm currently working on most Debian Ports issues more or less alone
> >>> and I
> >>> cannot take the additional burden to work on the website as well, I
> >>> need
> >>> people to help me with these efforts. So, please knock yourself out.
> >>>
> >>> Adrian
> >>>
>  [1] https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ports-team/website
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
> >>> : :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
> >>> `. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
> >>>  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
> >>>
>

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[jjhdiederen]

I found the main website of Debian in the meantime. It can be found 
here:

https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml

I cloned the whole thing and I am now in the process of building the 
corresponding

HTML pages from the .wml files using wml.

I will add more info when needed.

Jeroen

jjhdiederen schreef op 2020-05-15 15:17:

Hi all,

I had a quick look at the git clone of the Debian ports website. What
Hao however is referring to is
https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/ (1)
which is outdated, not only the debian ports website
https://www.ports.debian.org/ (2). Can I make changes somewhere to (1)
?  Where can I find the git info on that site?

I am also willing to edit the debian ports website (2) if needed.

Jeroen

Jeroen Diederen schreef op 2020-05-15 11:19:

Hi all,

I am willing to have a look at the Debian-ports website and make
appropriate changes.

Jeroen

On May 15, 2020, at 8:29 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:


Hello Hao!

On 5/15/20 5:59 AM, H wrote:
The biggest pain in the whole process is finding this link, as the 
official
powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is 
seriously
outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64) hints 
that
the port is still active, but still not offering download as it is 
mainly
focused on build status. And it takes me a while to realize 'ppc64' 
is
literally the name of a port (the official ppc page doesn't mention 
it at

all)!

So my 2 suggestions are:
1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in 
official

powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc 
port,

and clearly states their intended use, in that page.


I suggest that you create a wiki account for yourself and start 
editing the
wiki pages. For the website, you can create an account on Salsa, then 
clone

the website repository [1], make the changes and open a pull request.

I'm currently working on most Debian Ports issues more or less alone 
and I
cannot take the additional burden to work on the website as well, I 
need

people to help me with these efforts. So, please knock yourself out.

Adrian


[1] https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ports-team/website


--
.''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
 `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[jjhdiederen]

Hi all,

I had a quick look at the git clone of the Debian ports website. What 
Hao however is referring to is

https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/ (1)
which is outdated, not only the debian ports website 
https://www.ports.debian.org/ (2). Can I make changes somewhere to (1) ? 
 Where can I find the git info on that site?


I am also willing to edit the debian ports website (2) if needed.

Jeroen

Jeroen Diederen schreef op 2020-05-15 11:19:

Hi all,

I am willing to have a look at the Debian-ports website and make
appropriate changes.

Jeroen

On May 15, 2020, at 8:29 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:


Hello Hao!

On 5/15/20 5:59 AM, H wrote:
The biggest pain in the whole process is finding this link, as the 
official
powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is 
seriously
outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64) hints 
that
the port is still active, but still not offering download as it is 
mainly
focused on build status. And it takes me a while to realize 'ppc64' 
is
literally the name of a port (the official ppc page doesn't mention 
it at

all)!

So my 2 suggestions are:
1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in 
official

powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc 
port,

and clearly states their intended use, in that page.


I suggest that you create a wiki account for yourself and start 
editing the
wiki pages. For the website, you can create an account on Salsa, then 
clone

the website repository [1], make the changes and open a pull request.

I'm currently working on most Debian Ports issues more or less alone 
and I
cannot take the additional burden to work on the website as well, I 
need

people to help me with these efforts. So, please knock yourself out.

Adrian


[1] https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ports-team/website


--
.''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
 `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi Jeroen!

On 5/15/20 11:19 AM, Jeroen Diederen wrote:
> I am willing to have a look at the Debian-ports website and make appropriate 
> changes.

Good, thanks a lot. Please put me in the when you create the pull request so I 
can
make comments.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[Jeroen Diederen]

Hi all,

I am willing to have a look at the Debian-ports website and make appropriate 
changes.

Jeroen

On May 15, 2020, at 8:29 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

> Hello Hao!
> 
> On 5/15/20 5:59 AM, H wrote:
>> The biggest pain in the whole process is finding this link, as the official
>> powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is seriously
>> outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64) hints that
>> the port is still active, but still not offering download as it is mainly
>> focused on build status. And it takes me a while to realize 'ppc64' is
>> literally the name of a port (the official ppc page doesn't mention it at
>> all)!
>> 
>> So my 2 suggestions are:
>> 1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in official
>> powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
>> 2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc port,
>> and clearly states their intended use, in that page.
> 
> I suggest that you create a wiki account for yourself and start editing the
> wiki pages. For the website, you can create an account on Salsa, then clone
> the website repository [1], make the changes and open a pull request.
> 
> I'm currently working on most Debian Ports issues more or less alone and I
> cannot take the additional burden to work on the website as well, I need
> people to help me with these efforts. So, please knock yourself out.
> 
> Adrian
> 
>> [1] https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ports-team/website
> 
> -- 
> .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
> : :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
> `. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
>  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
> 

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[David VANTYGHEM]

Le 15/05/2020 à 08:29, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz a écrit :
> Hello Hao!
>
> On 5/15/20 5:59 AM, H wrote:
>> The biggest pain in the whole process is finding this link, as the official
>> powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is seriously
>> outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64) hints that
>> the port is still active, but still not offering download as it is mainly
>> focused on build status. And it takes me a while to realize 'ppc64' is
>> literally the name of a port (the official ppc page doesn't mention it at
>> all)!
>>
>> So my 2 suggestions are:
>> 1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in official
>> powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
>> 2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc port,
>> and clearly states their intended use, in that page.
> I suggest that you create a wiki account for yourself and start editing the
> wiki pages. For the website, you can create an account on Salsa, then clone
> the website repository [1], make the changes and open a pull request.
>
> I'm currently working on most Debian Ports issues more or less alone and I
> cannot take the additional burden to work on the website as well, I need
> people to help me with these efforts. So, please knock yourself out.
>
> Adrian
>
>> [1] https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ports-team/website

Hello,

Once the english pages will be updated on debian.org, I could make a
french translation.

-- 

Installer facilement Linux : http://infolib.re

.--.
   |o_o |
   ||_/ |
  //\\Envoyé depuis mon Linux
 (|  |)
/ \_   _/ \
\___)=(___/

Re: Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello Hao!

On 5/15/20 5:59 AM, H wrote:
> The biggest pain in the whole process is finding this link, as the official
> powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is seriously
> outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64) hints that
> the port is still active, but still not offering download as it is mainly
> focused on build status. And it takes me a while to realize 'ppc64' is
> literally the name of a port (the official ppc page doesn't mention it at
> all)!
> 
> So my 2 suggestions are:
> 1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in official
> powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
> 2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc port,
> and clearly states their intended use, in that page.

I suggest that you create a wiki account for yourself and start editing the
wiki pages. For the website, you can create an account on Salsa, then clone
the website repository [1], make the changes and open a pull request.

I'm currently working on most Debian Ports issues more or less alone and I
cannot take the additional burden to work on the website as well, I need
people to help me with these efforts. So, please knock yourself out.

Adrian

> [1] https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ports-team/website

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Make Debian Sid cdimage download more obvious in official powerpc port page?

[H]

I spend a while to get here: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/, the
older yaboot image works well on my system despite some tiny boot partition
issues. Will try the new grub image in a few days.

The biggest pain in the whole process is finding this link, as the official
powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is seriously
outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64) hints that
the port is still active, but still not offering download as it is mainly
focused on build status. And it takes me a while to realize 'ppc64' is
literally the name of a port (the official ppc page doesn't mention it at
all)!

So my 2 suggestions are:
1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in official
powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc port,
and clearly states their intended use, in that page.

I'm not sure if anyone with admin right is in this list, if you know
someone has, please forward.

Thanks,
Hao

Link Debian Sid cdimage download somewhere in official powerpc port page?

[H]

I spend a while searching internet to get this link:
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/10.0/, the ppc64 image works great
on my 970MP G5 (despite some nouveau shenanigans).

So far the biggest pain is to find this cdimage to download, because the
official powerpc port page (https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/) is
seriously outdated. The ppc64 wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/PPC64)
hints that the port is still active, but still not offering download as it
is mainly focused on build status.

I finally reached https://www.ports.debian.org/ by realizing 'ppc64' is a
name of a port. If I continously search 'powerpc debian', I doubt I would
give up before finding this right place. However this is potentially what
non-G5 users would face, as they clearly know their cpu will not run
anything 64bit.

So my 2 suggestions are:
1. Mention debian ports website (https://www.ports.debian.org/) in official
powerpc page, or even better, put the above cdimage link there.
2. Educate visitors, the existence of ppc64 port, along with powerpc port,
and clearly states their intended use, in that page.

I'm not sure if anyone with admin right is in this list, if you know
someone has, please forward.

Thanks,
Hao

Re: regarding 2019-07-16 ppc64 debian sid installer : does grub work there ?

[Simon Richter]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 08:56:12AM +0100, Romain Dolbeau wrote:

> I didn't try that installer. Both my PowerMacs are using yaboot, I
> haven't tried grub/ieee1275.

The TalosII boots via kexec, but consumes the grub.cfg for the menu
entries, so grub-ieee1275 is what you'd "use" there.

   Simon

Re: regarding 2019-07-16 ppc64 debian sid installer : does grub work there ?

[Romain Dolbeau]

> ... requires the help of "boot hd:,\install\yaboot" or some similar
> hack to get going ?

I didn't try that installer. Both my PowerMacs are using yaboot, I
haven't tried grub/ieee1275.
yaboot works well and is well documented, so it should be okay either way.

> I wanted to see if the most recent linux kernel sources are actually slightly 
> broken
> on the old ppc64 IBM970 chips in the G5 type units.

If by 'G5 type units' you mean powermacs, then yes. When I tracked down my bug,
I did check the newest kernel at the time, and the bug was still here :-(

If you mean another type of machine using ppc970, I'd like to know the
result as well.

Cordially,

-- 
Romain Dolbeau

regarding 2019-07-16 ppc64 debian sid installer : does grub work there ?

[Dennis Clarke]

Before I launch into an experiment I am curious if the installer at :

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-07-16/

... requires the help of "boot hd:,\install\yaboot" or some similar
hack to get going ?

I wanted to see if the most recent linux kernel sources are actually 
slightly broken on the old ppc64 IBM970 chips in the G5 type units.



--
Dennis Clarke
RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
UNIX and Linux spoken
GreyBeard and suspenders optional

Re: eMac G4/1.25 GHz support for Debian Sid?

[aggaz]

Il 26/07/19 17:02, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz ha scritto:
> On 7/26/19 4:39 PM, aggaz wrote:
>> 1. Would it be possible to have UMS drivers compatible with modern kernels?
> 
> You can always boot the kernel with "nomodeset" and then try the generic
> VESA driver (if that still exists).

I was hoping to be able to run the old radeon 9200 driver in UMS, but I
don't know if that is possible. I was never really able to orient myself
in this area.


>> 2. If answer to "1" is true, would it be possible to make a debian
>> package for it?
> 
> It might be a wiser idea to fix the particular bug in the radeon driver rather
> than using the UMS driver as a crude workaround.
> 
> Was this bug ever reported to the kernel bugtracker?

I honestly don't know. It does not seem so. I am not familiar with
kernels and bug reports, I did a search on https://bugzilla.kernel.org
and I was not able to find anything relevant.


> Does the KMS driver work on the virtual console? Or does the issue affect
> both the virtual consoles and X?

If I remember correctly, the bug affects the virtual console too.
By using "nomodeset" it is possible to use the console, but X usually
gives issues.
As far as I know, at best, people is able to manage an X window system
without accelleration.


Sooner or later I would like to try to install a recent Debian Sid on
that machine. I will keep you posted.


Regards
A.

Re: eMac G4/1.25 GHz support for Debian Sid?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 7/26/19 4:39 PM, aggaz wrote:
> 1. Would it be possible to have UMS drivers compatible with modern kernels?

You can always boot the kernel with "nomodeset" and then try the generic
VESA driver (if that still exists).

> 2. If answer to "1" is true, would it be possible to make a debian
> package for it?

It might be a wiser idea to fix the particular bug in the radeon driver rather
than using the UMS driver as a crude workaround.

Was this bug ever reported to the kernel bugtracker?

Does the KMS driver work on the virtual console? Or does the issue affect
both the virtual consoles and X?

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: eMac G4/1.25 GHz support for Debian Sid?

[aggaz]

As far as I know, the problem with eMacs with a Radeon 9200 is the
migration to KMS video drivers.

Years ago I tried to install Debian on it and discovered that any
version after "Wheezy" has video problems (the so called "Black Screen
of Death) [1].

I read a report of someone using a UMS version of the drivers from
ubuntu [2] but never tried this solution.

I wonder:

1. Would it be possible to have UMS drivers compatible with modern kernels?

2. If answer to "1" is true, would it be possible to make a debian
package for it?

If someone thinks that it could be possible to find a solution, I could
be available for testing purposes, since I still own an old eMac G4.

[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2016/06/msg00136.html
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2016/06/msg00140.html


Regards




Il 26/07/19 15:54, Alex McKeever ha scritto:
> How hard would it be to get it working on this machine? Mine was
> manufactured at around the same time as my PowerMac G5 2.0 DP. I don’t
> understand why the eMac is not supported by Ports anymore... why’d they
> not add support for the Radeon 9200 for KMS? The PowerMac G5 is running
> Fienix Lite, a spin of a community supported distribution based on Sid
> with MATE, but uses LXQT instead.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 

Re: eMac G4/1.25 GHz support for Debian Sid?

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello Alex!

On 7/26/19 3:54 PM, Alex McKeever wrote:
> How hard would it be to get it working on this machine?

Hard to tell unless you tell us what's not working in particular.

> Mine was manufactured at around the same time as my PowerMac G5 2.0 DP.
> I don’t understand why the eMac is not supported by Ports anymore...

Well, unless you tell us what your problem is we're not able to help
you.

> why’d they not add support for the Radeon 9200 for KMS?

Who is "they"? Driver development is done in the kernel, not in Debian.

If the kernel doesn't support a particular piece of hardware, then there
is not much we can do about it in Debian. Hardware support isn't a Debian
topic, it's a kernel topic.

> The PowerMac G5 is running Fienix Lite, a spin of a community supported
> distribution based on Sid with MATE, but uses LXQT instead.

How is this relevant to the eMac question? Debian runs fine on the G5, yes.

I don't know about the eMac because I have never even touched an eMac, I
think they were not that popular outside the US either.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: eMac G4/1.25 GHz support for Debian Sid?

[Mathieu Malaterre]

Alex,

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:10 PM Alex McKeever
 wrote:
>
> How hard would it be to get it working on this machine? Mine was manufactured 
> at around the same time as my PowerMac G5 2.0 DP. I don’t understand why the 
> eMac is not supported by Ports anymore... why’d they not add support for the 
> Radeon 9200 for KMS? The PowerMac G5 is running Fienix Lite, a spin of a 
> community supported distribution based on Sid with MATE, but uses LXQT 
> instead.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

An actual bug report would be nice. Here is what I see from my MacMini G4:

$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
cpu : 7447A, altivec supported
clock : 1416.61MHz
revision : 1.2 (pvr 8003 0102)
bogomips : 83.24

timebase : 41620997
platform : PowerMac
model : PowerMac10,1
machine : PowerMac10,1
motherboard : PowerMac10,1 MacRISC3 Power Macintosh
detected as : 287 (Mac mini)
pmac flags : 0010
L2 cache : 512K unified
pmac-generation : NewWorld
Memory : 512 MB

eMac G4/1.25 GHz support for Debian Sid?

[Alex McKeever]

How hard would it be to get it working on this machine? Mine was manufactured 
at around the same time as my PowerMac G5 2.0 DP. I don’t understand why the 
eMac is not supported by Ports anymore... why’d they not add support for the 
Radeon 9200 for KMS? The PowerMac G5 is running Fienix Lite, a spin of a 
community supported distribution based on Sid with MATE, but uses LXQT instead.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

Re: Installation failed from USB stick: Debian sid (Buster)

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 5/5/19 4:37 PM, Karl Schimanek wrote:
> I also tried the image from 2019-01-27 and got the following log (also GRUB 
> error):
> https://ibb.co/Nx2F4cV

No idea why you tried this particular image, but you should rather use the one 
from
2019-04-20:

> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-04-20/

> What is the last sid image with Yaboot?

Anything which has not a snapshot date, e.g.:

> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/10.0/powerpc/iso-cd/

> And what is the mailing list for PPC64el?

You are on it. debian-powerpc covers powerpc, powerpcspe, ppc64 and ppc64el.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Installation failed from USB stick: Debian sid (Buster)

[Karl Schimanek]

Hello,

I also tried the image from 2019-01-27 and got the following log (also GRUB 
error):
https://ibb.co/Nx2F4cV

Powerbook6,8
Model M9690LL

Install language english
Internet connection was established

What is the last sid image with Yaboot?

And what is the mailing list for PPC64el?
Because, I will get my Blackbird in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks in advance

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi,


On 08/14/2018 10:14 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

On 08/14/2018 09:54 PM, Riccardo Mottola wrote:

there is a lot of good stuff, but also hold your breath. I am working on the 
code to generalize his work so that it works on x86-32bit (64bit is currently
off-limits for the code, it would need even more work to remove Carbon) so that 
it can be used on older intel macs too. It is absolutely not an easy task, I
have been working closely with Cameron for months: his code was worked for 
years against a single OS and CPU target. So in my case it had endianness 
issues,
which are to a larger extent fixed.

Did you port the WebAssembly stuff to PowerPC? Because that's actually one of 
the
things that keep Firefox from building on 32-Bit PowerPC. For 64 bit, it doesn't
seem to need any additional code, I just had to add a few lines upstream to get
sparc64 to build, for example.


Cameron did bring ION Power to PPC. I don't know what exactly you mean 
for WebAssembly, sorry.






We have a x86 build working as a proof, but I did not release anything to the 
public since it is not as stable as the PPC version, although it proves how much
can be "squeezed" from older Macs.

On which Firefox version is this based?


it is based on 45, kept updated to 49 and now "importing" things from 
52, In fact, since the split, it has number calling themselves "Feature 
parity release"


Code speaks.. this is my current repo:

https://github.com/rmottola/tenfourfox

I made nothing public yet though.




Not sure what should be Mac-specific here? The JIT and WebAssembly stuff is not
platform-specific, just arch-specific - as far as I know.


I know that the JIT had lots of work, especially for ION, then all the 
native parts and then... I don't really know what Cameron did, I just 
worked looked at all the issues I had when getting it back to x86.



Rust is unfortunately currently broken on 32-Bit PPC and I have been bisecting
the bug for days now: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/50960

Bisecting Rust is a completely pain in the as since the git history is 
completely
non-linear.


I was told that indeed... never attempted to build it. I wonder if it 
would build on x86-32bit. But then, essentially, already FF 52 is 
essentially for 10.9 and up.

PaleMoon should just build fine on PPC since it's just an older Firefox. In 
fact,
I actually submitted some patches to PaleMoon upstream to fix the build on m68k
(although I think it's missing some alignment patches) ;).

I have more patches for PaleMoon in the queue to fix the build on sh4, for 
example.


That could be an interesting direction. Up to version 27 in fact there 
were PPC intel builds up to 10.6, but intel-64bit only. I suppose though 
that was just because the builders worked that way.
Now, the released 28 version is out and has the same old friendly 
interface, but with the FF52 core.


This, for now, made a drop-back for most platforms. E.g. Mac will be 
supported from 10.7 up only (if at all) and Windows 32bit has issues for me.


It could be however something interesting to work on, especially for 
aging "mac" PPC and related platforms with more limited RAM. My 
experience with Quantum FF is that it slurps RAM as a madman... I have 
issues at work with computers with 8 cores and 8GBytes of RAM...


I will ask on the Pale Moon forum.

Riccardo

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[swamprock]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 14, 2018 5:29 AM, Rogério Brito  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> It's been a while (several months) since I last updated my iBook G4 with
> Debian, but I recall some stuff not working correctly and I saw those
> mentioned in the thread pointed to in a previous email.
>
> On 2018-08-13 14:29, swamprock wrote:
>
> > > FWIW, I am currently trying to fix the Rust compiler on 32-bit PowerPC so
> > > that we will eventually be able to use Firefox and Thunderbird on PowerPC
> > > again.
>
> That would certainly be very nice, Adrian, since without that, we have
> essentially no browser on PowerPC (and, the ones that we had had many
> issues that I can't recall right now).
>
> BTW, which browsers are other people working?

I've got Midori (installed from Jessie-Backports; installs fine) and Luakit 
(latest build; compiled on my iBook) working at a decent clip. Firefox-ESR is 
unstable and crashes on occasion (as well as being slo on 32-bit PowerPC), 
qutebrowser segfaults when using the older qtwebkit backend (qtwebengine, IIRC, 
needs to be reconfigured and built for PowerPC, but luakit is too similar for 
me to really bother, and it may be out of my own abilities to do so), 
Epiphany/Web only displays garbage instead of websites, and everything else is 
just way too outdated to be of any use.


>
> Brian, if you can, please tell other people to subscribe to the list or
> to use Thunderbird to read the list via news.gmane.org gateway (this
> way, people don't get flooded with emails if they don't read their
> emails in a timely fashion).

Will do.

>
> > Nice. I wish my coding skills weren't so old-school, or I could offer help 
> > beyond just testing. It would be nice to see Quantum's speed and efficiency 
> > (to the extent that it would be effective) on PPC machines. This could 
> > possibly have a carry-over affect on TenFourFox, the Mac OS X/PowerPC fork 
> > of Firefox-ESR, as Cameron is basically left to applying security patches 
> > and optimizations to the old ESR code.
>
> Some of the code (that is, the non-OSX parts) that Kaiser Cameron is
> producing (especially the Altivec optimizations to decoding videos and
> the JIT of Firefox) would be quite welcome if supplied in a clean
> fashion to Mike Hommey, the Debian maintainer of Firefox (who also
> happens to be an upstream developer at Mozilla).
>
> > > > Thanks to all involved with maintaining this port.
> > >
> > > You're welcome. Please join us on #debian-ports on OFTC on IRC if you 
> > > would
> > > like to get into contact. New help is always welcome.
> >
> > Will do, time permitting. I'll notify the MacRumors thread of your reply. 
> > Thanks!
>
> I saw people mentioning that playing videos with mplayer, vlc etc is
> slow on G4 machines. That is because packages in Debian are compiled for
> the lowest common denominator, which is no Altivec at all.
>
> Unfortunately, even if I grab the sources of the Debian ffmpeg package
> and recompile it with Altivec enabled, but without the -mabi=altivec (or
> something like that---don't recall exactly, since, as I said, it's been
> months without touching my iBook), there is no change in performance.
>
> Once I add that option (which changes the ABI), ffmpeg can transcode
> videos 2x as fast and so on. I expect the same things to happen with
> other multimedia libraries/programs (and other programs in general).
>
> Oh, some hints to get VLC, mplayer, mpv etc. working faster on the
> PowerPCs is to disable the loopfilter for H.264 videos (the "mp4"
> videos) and to enable the "fast" processing of lavf.
>
> Something like the following in your ~/.mplayer/config would help:
>
> lavdopts=fast=1:skiploopfilter=nonref
>
> You can substitute nonref by all (but then, the video gets very blocky).
>
> If you can/wish, you (and other members of the forum) can probably
> compile these facts as a FAQ on the Debian wiki (there is an Ubuntu wiki
> about PowerPC that is likely to be outdated, but it had some good advice
> that may not be appliable anymore, due to software having evolved).
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/PowerPC/FAQ
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnPowerPC
> https://wiki.debian.org/PowerPC/SoundCards
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCKnownIssues
>
> (Maybe unify the contents of the pages above would help and also make
> clear what are the issues that are still present or not).
>
> Ideally, some of these issues could be automated and the installs should
> "just work".

Hmm... video in browsers seems to exhibit the old blue-hued, big endian Mesa 
(or gstreamer; not exactly sure which) bug from years past. My work-around is 
to use youtube-dl and download 360p mp4 video from YT (and Video Downloadhelper 
for everywhere else), and play them through mpv or VLC. They run at full speed 
in that resolution for me; even on my 867mhz TiBook AND at full screen, so I'm 
not sure what your issues are/were. I have installed all of the gstreamer 

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 08/14/2018 09:54 PM, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
> there is a lot of good stuff, but also hold your breath. I am working on the 
> code to generalize his work so that it works on x86-32bit (64bit is currently
> off-limits for the code, it would need even more work to remove Carbon) so 
> that it can be used on older intel macs too. It is absolutely not an easy 
> task, I
> have been working closely with Cameron for months: his code was worked for 
> years against a single OS and CPU target. So in my case it had endianness 
> issues,
> which are to a larger extent fixed.

Did you port the WebAssembly stuff to PowerPC? Because that's actually one of 
the
things that keep Firefox from building on 32-Bit PowerPC. For 64 bit, it doesn't
seem to need any additional code, I just had to add a few lines upstream to get
sparc64 to build, for example.

> We have a x86 build working as a proof, but I did not release anything to the 
> public since it is not as stable as the PPC version, although it proves how 
> much
> can be "squeezed" from older Macs.

On which Firefox version is this based?

> By analyzing the code, I can tell you that a lot would be needed to get them 
> on non-Mac systems. Of course, it could be done.

Not sure what should be Mac-specific here? The JIT and WebAssembly stuff is not
platform-specific, just arch-specific - as far as I know.

> I'm not sure Quantum is better in anything. On NetBSD I am using the 
> rust-based Firefox and it appears more bloated and trade-off memory with 
> performance. Also,
> I personally dislike the "new" interface, but that is taste.
> Rust is a pain and slow to death, slower actually. I build it on x86 machines 
> which are faster than all G4 machines I know and it takes hours/days. We 
> already
> have pain with gcc and clang... now rust, oh, man.

Rust is unfortunately currently broken on 32-Bit PPC and I have been bisecting
the bug for days now: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/50960

Bisecting Rust is a completely pain in the as since the git history is 
completely
non-linear.

> Perhaps Pale Moon could be ported to PPC? The community is not that happy 
> with ports/forks apparently though, although it appears to be only a naming 
> issue and
> an issue of dependent libraries.

PaleMoon should just build fine on PPC since it's just an older Firefox. In 
fact,
I actually submitted some patches to PaleMoon upstream to fix the build on m68k
(although I think it's missing some alignment patches) ;).

I have more patches for PaleMoon in the queue to fix the build on sh4, for 
example.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi,


On 08/14/18 11:29, Rogério Brito wrote:


Nice. I wish my coding skills weren't so old-school, or I could offer 
help beyond just testing. It would be nice to see Quantum's speed and 
efficiency (to the extent that it would be effective) on PPC 
machines. This could possibly have a carry-over affect on TenFourFox, 
the Mac OS X/PowerPC fork of Firefox-ESR, as Cameron is basically 
left to applying security patches and optimizations to the old ESR code.


Some of the code (that is, the non-OSX parts) that Kaiser Cameron is 
producing (especially the Altivec optimizations to decoding videos and 
the JIT of Firefox) would be quite welcome if supplied in a clean 
fashion to Mike Hommey, the Debian maintainer of Firefox (who also 
happens to be an upstream developer at Mozilla). 


there is a lot of good stuff, but also hold your breath. I am working on 
the code to generalize his work so that it works on x86-32bit (64bit is 
currently off-limits for the code, it would need even more work to 
remove Carbon) so that it can be used on older intel macs too. It is 
absolutely not an easy task, I have been working closely with Cameron 
for months: his code was worked for years against a single OS and CPU 
target. So in my case it had endianness issues, which are to a larger 
extent fixed.


We have a x86 build working as a proof, but I did not release anything 
to the public since it is not as stable as the PPC version, although it 
proves how much can be "squeezed" from older Macs.


The good news is that most of the patches are now accepted in Cameron's 
code, other are private to my github repository because "not clean enough".


By analyzing the code, I can tell you that a lot would be needed to get 
them on non-Mac systems. Of course, it could be done.


I'm not sure Quantum is better in anything. On NetBSD I am using the 
rust-based Firefox and it appears more bloated and trade-off memory with 
performance. Also, I personally dislike the "new" interface, but that is 
taste.
Rust is a pain and slow to death, slower actually. I build it on x86 
machines which are faster than all G4 machines I know and it takes 
hours/days. We already have pain with gcc and clang... now rust, oh, man.


Perhaps Pale Moon could be ported to PPC? The community is not that 
happy with ports/forks apparently though, although it appears to be only 
a naming issue and an issue of dependent libraries.


Riccardo

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 08/14/2018 11:29 AM, Rogério Brito wrote:
>>> FWIW, I am currently trying to fix the Rust compiler on 32-bit PowerPC so
>>> that we will eventually be able to use Firefox and Thunderbird on PowerPC
>>> again.
> 
> That would certainly be very nice, Adrian, since without that, we have 
> essentially no browser on PowerPC (and, the ones that we had had many issues 
> that I can't
> recall right now).

It's not easy though. I have been trying to bisect the problem for several days
now, see: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/50960

There are also other important tasks on PowerPC that need to be worked on, most
importantly the transition from Yaboot to GRUB for PowerPC Macs (we are already
using GRUB for IBM PowerPC machines on powerpc and ppc64).

Frank Scheiner has worked on the GRUB support for Macintosh, but there is still
one unresolved issue. Switching from Yaboot to GRUB would alleviate all the
boot problems people have when using Yaboot which doesn't support many modern
filesystems or even ext4 features.

>> Nice. I wish my coding skills weren't so old-school, or I could offer help 
>> beyond just testing. It would be nice to see Quantum's speed and efficiency 
>> (to the
>> extent that it would be effective) on PPC machines. This could possibly have 
>> a carry-over affect on TenFourFox, the Mac OS X/PowerPC fork of Firefox-ESR, 
>> as
>> Cameron is basically left to applying security patches and optimizations to 
>> the old ESR code.
> 
> Some of the code (that is, the non-OSX parts) that Kaiser Cameron is 
> producing (especially the Altivec optimizations to decoding videos and the 
> JIT of Firefox)
> would be quite welcome if supplied in a clean fashion to Mike Hommey, the 
> Debian maintainer of Firefox (who also happens to be an upstream developer at 
> Mozilla).

I don't think there are good chances to get JIT support for PowerPC merged
into Firefox upstream, but if someone would do the job and be willing to
maintain the code, it can happen.

> I saw people mentioning that playing videos with mplayer, vlc etc is slow on 
> G4 machines. That is because packages in Debian are compiled for the lowest 
> common
> denominator, which is no Altivec at all.

I'm pretty sure that mplayer has runtime detection for features like Altivec, 
doesn't it?

> Ideally, some of these issues could be automated and the installs should 
> "just work".

Issues should be compiled into a list and reported as bugs, tagged accordingly:

User: debian-powerpc@lists.debian.org
Usertags: powerpc
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-powerpc@lists.debian.org

Please always check for existing bugs first and tag them if they haven't already
been tagged.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[Rogério Brito]

Hi.

It's been a while (several months) since I last updated my iBook G4 with 
Debian, but I recall some stuff not working correctly and I saw those 
mentioned in the thread pointed to in a previous email.


On 2018-08-13 14:29, swamprock wrote:

FWIW, I am currently trying to fix the Rust compiler on 32-bit PowerPC so
that we will eventually be able to use Firefox and Thunderbird on PowerPC
again.


That would certainly be very nice, Adrian, since without that, we have 
essentially no browser on PowerPC (and, the ones that we had had many 
issues that I can't recall right now).


BTW, which browsers are other people working?

Brian, if you can, please tell other people to subscribe to the list or 
to use Thunderbird to read the list via news.gmane.org gateway (this 
way, people don't get flooded with emails if they don't read their 
emails in a timely fashion).



Nice. I wish my coding skills weren't so old-school, or I could offer help 
beyond just testing. It would be nice to see Quantum's speed and efficiency (to 
the extent that it would be effective) on PPC machines. This could possibly 
have a carry-over affect on TenFourFox, the Mac OS X/PowerPC fork of 
Firefox-ESR, as Cameron is basically left to applying security patches and 
optimizations to the old ESR code.


Some of the code (that is, the non-OSX parts) that Kaiser Cameron is 
producing (especially the Altivec optimizations to decoding videos and 
the JIT of Firefox) would be quite welcome if supplied in a clean 
fashion to Mike Hommey, the Debian maintainer of Firefox (who also 
happens to be an upstream developer at Mozilla).



Thanks to all involved with maintaining this port.


You're welcome. Please join us on #debian-ports on OFTC on IRC if you would
like to get into contact. New help is always welcome.


Will do, time permitting. I'll notify the MacRumors thread of your reply. 
Thanks!


I saw people mentioning that playing videos with mplayer, vlc etc is 
slow on G4 machines. That is because packages in Debian are compiled for 
the lowest common denominator, which is no Altivec at all.


Unfortunately, even if I grab the sources of the Debian ffmpeg package 
and recompile it with Altivec enabled, but without the -mabi=altivec (or 
something like that---don't recall exactly, since, as I said, it's been 
months without touching my iBook), there is no change in performance.


Once I add that option (which changes the ABI), ffmpeg can transcode 
videos 2x as fast and so on. I expect the same things to happen with 
other multimedia libraries/programs (and other programs in general).


Oh, some hints to get VLC, mplayer, mpv etc. working faster on the 
PowerPCs is to disable the loopfilter for H.264 videos (the "mp4" 
videos) and to enable the "fast" processing of lavf.


Something like the following in your ~/.mplayer/config would help:

lavdopts=fast=1:skiploopfilter=nonref

You can substitute nonref by all (but then, the video gets very blocky).

If you can/wish, you (and other members of the forum) can probably 
compile these facts as a FAQ on the Debian wiki (there is an Ubuntu wiki 
about PowerPC that is likely to be outdated, but it had some good advice 
that may not be appliable anymore, due to software having evolved).


https://wiki.debian.org/PowerPC/FAQ
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnPowerPC
https://wiki.debian.org/PowerPC/SoundCards
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCKnownIssues

(Maybe unify the contents of the pages above would help and also make 
clear what are the issues that are still present or not).


Ideally, some of these issues could be automated and the installs should 
"just work".



Regards,

--
Rogério Brito : rbrito@{ime.usp.br,gmail.com} : GPG key 4096R/BCFC
http://cynic.cc/blog/ : github.com/rbrito : profiles.google.com/rbrito
DebianQA: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=rbrito%40ime.usp.br

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[swamprock]

Please excuse the name change. I forgot that this was my old Craigslist reply 
email :)

> Thanks for your work. This encourages us to keep working on the port.
>
> FWIW, I am currently trying to fix the Rust compiler on 32-bit PowerPC so
> that we will eventually be able to use Firefox and Thunderbird on PowerPC
> again.

Nice. I wish my coding skills weren't so old-school, or I could offer help 
beyond just testing. It would be nice to see Quantum's speed and efficiency (to 
the extent that it would be effective) on PPC machines. This could possibly 
have a carry-over affect on TenFourFox, the Mac OS X/PowerPC fork of 
Firefox-ESR, as Cameron is basically left to applying security patches and 
optimizations to the old ESR code.

> Oh, and I am going to build fresh installation images this week so you
> guys will have something to test. I have vacation for two weeks now and
> therefore enough time for that.

Excellent! Looking forward to them.

> > Thanks to all involved with maintaining this port.
>
> You're welcome. Please join us on #debian-ports on OFTC on IRC if you would
> like to get into contact. New help is always welcome.

Will do, time permitting. I'll notify the MacRumors thread of your reply. 
Thanks!


Brian

Re: Debian sid testing progress

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi!

On 08/13/2018 10:06 AM, CL Mail wrote:
> Hello. A few of us have been installing and testing the PPC port of 
> Buster/sid and posting our advice and results on the MacRumors PowerPC forum. 
> A number of
> machines have been tested, and more will be tested in the near future. Our 
> progress can be followed at the thread
> at 
> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/powerpc-linux-support-to-continue-in-debian-ports.2128808/

Thanks for your work. This encourages us to keep working on the port.

FWIW, I am currently trying to fix the Rust compiler on 32-bit PowerPC so
that we will eventually be able to use Firefox and Thunderbird on PowerPC
again.

Oh, and I am going to build fresh installation images this week so you
guys will have something to test. I have vacation for two weeks now and
therefore enough time for that.

> Thanks to all involved with maintaining this port.

You're welcome. Please join us on #debian-ports on OFTC on IRC if you would
like to get into contact. New help is always welcome.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Debian sid testing progress

[CL Mail]

Hello. A few of us have been installing and testing the PPC port of Buster/sid 
and posting our advice and results on the MacRumors PowerPC forum. A number of 
machines have been tested, and more will be tested in the near future. Our 
progress can be followed at the thread at 
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/powerpc-linux-support-to-continue-in-debian-ports.2128808/

Thanks to all involved with maintaining this port.

Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Fwd: [Bug web/82686] Debian sid powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu 4.13.0-1-powerpc64 bootstrap breaks in stage3 with unexpected requirement for bdw-gc

[Gabriel Paubert]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 06:31:07PM -0400, Dennis Clarke wrote:
> 
> 
> Merely an FYI ... the word on the street is that GCC 8 will provide a
> solid implementation of libquadmath to ppc64.  We also know that the
> newer IBM Power line will have some hardware implementation for the
> new 128-bit floating point type.  Not sure if anyone else is thrilled
> by this but for me big sparc has been the only way to get that level
> of floating point working.  Namely Solaris because libquadmath code is
> all based on the original SunPro code that went into Solaris.
> 
> see 
> http://src.illumos.org/source/xref/illumos-gate/usr/src/lib/libm/common/LD/sinl.c
> 
> see https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/libquadmath/math/sinq.c
> 
> In any case I hope to see this works cross platform on sparc and ppc64
> and also perhaps on PA-Risc as I have a few superdomes on hand.
> 
> I have gcc-8-20180415 boot strapping now with the gcc 7.3.0 I had built
> just yesterday :
> 
> https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-testresults/2018-04/msg01351.html
> 
> Even better results on Solaris 10 sparc :
> 
> https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-testresults/2018-04/msg01455.html
> 
> Note that a better GNU make with modern glibc is needed to get past
>  stage 1 and the patches are available :
> 
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-make/2018-04/msg00018.html
> 
> Works flawlessly on RHEL 7.4 x86_64 and PPC64 and SPARC64.
> 
> I should followup with gcc 8-beta results shortly.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> ps: is anyone else having fun with this or just me ?


Well, I don't have time to spend on this but I'm tracking you fairly
closely. 

Of course our spam filter decided to classify you as a spammer and to
withhold all your messages, so I had to put you into my trusted list.

Gabriel

> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: [Bug web/82686] Debian sid powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu
> 4.13.0-1-powerpc64 bootstrap breaks in stage3 with unexpected requirement
> for bdw-gc
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 23:16:36 +
> From: glaubitz at physik dot fu-berlin.de <gcc-bugzi...@gcc.gnu.org>
> To: dcla...@blastwave.org
> 
> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=82686
> 
> John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  changed:
> 
>What|Removed |Added
> 
>  CC||glaubitz at physik dot
> fu-berlin.d
>||e
> 
> -- 
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You reported the bug.
> 
> 

Fwd: [Bug web/82686] Debian sid powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu 4.13.0-1-powerpc64 bootstrap breaks in stage3 with unexpected requirement for bdw-gc

[Dennis Clarke]

Merely an FYI ... the word on the street is that GCC 8 will provide a
solid implementation of libquadmath to ppc64.  We also know that the
newer IBM Power line will have some hardware implementation for the
new 128-bit floating point type.  Not sure if anyone else is thrilled
by this but for me big sparc has been the only way to get that level
of floating point working.  Namely Solaris because libquadmath code is
all based on the original SunPro code that went into Solaris.

see 
http://src.illumos.org/source/xref/illumos-gate/usr/src/lib/libm/common/LD/sinl.c


see https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/libquadmath/math/sinq.c

In any case I hope to see this works cross platform on sparc and ppc64
and also perhaps on PA-Risc as I have a few superdomes on hand.

I have gcc-8-20180415 boot strapping now with the gcc 7.3.0 I had built
just yesterday :

https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-testresults/2018-04/msg01351.html

Even better results on Solaris 10 sparc :

https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-testresults/2018-04/msg01455.html

Note that a better GNU make with modern glibc is needed to get past
 stage 1 and the patches are available :

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-make/2018-04/msg00018.html

Works flawlessly on RHEL 7.4 x86_64 and PPC64 and SPARC64.

I should followup with gcc 8-beta results shortly.

Dennis

ps: is anyone else having fun with this or just me ?


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [Bug web/82686] Debian sid powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu 
4.13.0-1-powerpc64 bootstrap breaks in stage3 with unexpected 
requirement for bdw-gc

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 23:16:36 +
From: glaubitz at physik dot fu-berlin.de <gcc-bugzi...@gcc.gnu.org>
To: dcla...@blastwave.org

https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=82686

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||glaubitz at physik dot 
fu-berlin.d

   ||e

--
You are receiving this mail because:
You reported the bug.

[Debian Sid PPC32] Mesa 17.2.1 tested

[Christian Zigotzky]

Hi All,

I successfully compiled and tested Mesa 17.2.1 for Debian Sid PPC32 today.

Further information and download: 
http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=35=42426=bd5c38dc61772eb71a695d3f18ed0753#p42426


Cheers,
Christian

Re: [Debian Sid] libGL.so.1 and libGL.so.1.2.0 are missing in the package libgl1-mesa-glx

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 09/19/2017 01:47 PM, Christian Zigotzky wrote:

If you install the latest libgl1-mesa-glx_17.2.1-1_powerpc.deb you will notice
that the hardware 3D acceleration doesn't work. The problem is, the files
libGL.so.1 and libGL.so.1.2.0 are missing in the package libgl1-mesa-glx.


That's because this package has been deprecated, it's just a dummy package:

libgl1-mesa-glx_17.2.1-1_powerpc.deb


 new debian package, version 2.0.
 size 42042 bytes: control archive=558 bytes.
 374 bytes,13 lines  control
 301 bytes, 4 lines  md5sums
 Package: libgl1-mesa-glx
 Source: mesa
 Version: 17.2.1-1
 Architecture: powerpc
 Maintainer: Debian X Strike Force 
 Installed-Size: 55
 Depends: libgl1, libglx-mesa0
 Section: oldlibs
 Priority: extra
 Multi-Arch: same
 Homepage: https://mesa3d.org/
 Description: transitional dummy package
  This is a transitional dummy package, it can be safely removed.

drwxr-xr-x root/root 0 2017-09-18 11:33 ./
drwxr-xr-x root/root 0 2017-09-18 11:33 ./usr/
drwxr-xr-x root/root 0 2017-09-18 11:33 ./usr/share/
drwxr-xr-x root/root 0 2017-09-18 11:33 ./usr/share/bug/
drwxr-xr-x root/root 0 2017-09-18 11:33 ./usr/share/bug/libgl1-mesa-glx/
-rw-r--r-- root/root44 2017-09-18 11:33 
./usr/share/bug/libgl1-mesa-glx/control
-rwxr-xr-x root/root   448 2017-09-18 11:33 
./usr/share/bug/libgl1-mesa-glx/script
drwxr-xr-x root/root 0 2017-09-18 11:33 ./usr/share/doc/
drwxr-xr-x root/root 0 2017-09-18 11:33 ./usr/share/doc/libgl1-mesa-glx/
-rw-r--r-- root/root 37794 2017-09-18 11:33 
./usr/share/doc/libgl1-mesa-glx/changelog.Debian.gz
-rw-r--r-- root/root  7403 2017-09-18 11:33 
./usr/share/doc/libgl1-mesa-glx/copyright

--
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

[Debian Sid] libGL.so.1 and libGL.so.1.2.0 are missing in the package libgl1-mesa-glx

[Christian Zigotzky]

Hi All,

If you install the latest libgl1-mesa-glx_17.2.1-1_powerpc.deb you will 
notice that the hardware 3D acceleration doesn't work. The problem is, 
the files libGL.so.1 and libGL.so.1.2.0 are missing in the package 
libgl1-mesa-glx.


Cheers,
Christian

Re: Firefox 51.0.1-1 on Debian Sid/experimental PowerPC (PPC32): Segmentation fault

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 04:44:22PM -0500,  wrote:
> Well there does exist cheaper options, like the $4k T4240QDS-PB, which
> is 12 core (24 threads) 1.8Ghz 64 bit powerpc.
> 
> The P5040RDB is $3k for a quad core 64 bit powerpc.
> 
> That's still not hobby level pricing though.  Better than the price of
> the talos, but also not ppc64el compatible (as far as I know).

Seems you can get an IBM S812LC with an 8 core Power8 for under $5k with
32GB ram.  That would make for a nice build machine.  You wouldn't want
to be anywhere near it due to the fan noise though.

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: Firefox 51.0.1-1 on Debian Sid/experimental PowerPC (PPC32): Segmentation fault

[luigi burdo]

P5040 is much less then 3k in prize or there is P5020 too *cyrus plus

or the old good G5 Quad.. it rulez today im writing right now from fedora 25 
PPC64 firefox 51 and i dont miss a new gen machine. Work in full PPC64 made 
this machine really enjoyable.


Luigi



Da: Lennart Sorensen <lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Inviato: lunedì 13 febbraio 2017 22.44
A: Konstantinos Margaritis
Cc: debian-powerpc@lists.debian.org
Oggetto: Re: Firefox 51.0.1-1 on Debian Sid/experimental PowerPC (PPC32): 
Segmentation fault

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:44:57PM +0200, Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:
> As with all new languages it will take time, but eventually it will get
> there, with a big IF. The biggest(only?) problem with PowerPC in
> general right now is hardware availability not lack of interested
> developers. Developers will try anything new if it's decently priced
> (as ARM/MIPS have already proven). Show me a decent 64-bit PowerPC
> board at ~100-200EUR, Talos was a great idea, but about $17k more
> expensive than it should have been.

Well there does exist cheaper options, like the $4k T4240QDS-PB, which
is 12 core (24 threads) 1.8Ghz 64 bit powerpc.

The P5040RDB is $3k for a quad core 64 bit powerpc.

That's still not hobby level pricing though.  Better than the price of
the talos, but also not ppc64el compatible (as far as I know).

--
Len Sorensen

Re: Firefox 51.0.1-1 on Debian Sid/experimental PowerPC (PPC32): Segmentation fault

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:44:57PM +0200, Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:
> As with all new languages it will take time, but eventually it will get
> there, with a big IF. The biggest(only?) problem with PowerPC in
> general right now is hardware availability not lack of interested
> developers. Developers will try anything new if it's decently priced
> (as ARM/MIPS have already proven). Show me a decent 64-bit PowerPC
> board at ~100-200EUR, Talos was a great idea, but about $17k more
> expensive than it should have been.

Well there does exist cheaper options, like the $4k T4240QDS-PB, which
is 12 core (24 threads) 1.8Ghz 64 bit powerpc.

The P5040RDB is $3k for a quad core 64 bit powerpc.

That's still not hobby level pricing though.  Better than the price of
the talos, but also not ppc64el compatible (as far as I know).

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: Firefox 51.0.1-1 on Debian Sid/experimental PowerPC (PPC32): Segmentation fault

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

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On 02/13/2017 09:44 PM, Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:
> I'm not a compiler developer, but I've done my share of compiler 
> bootstrapping/bug reporting/bug fixing.

Same here. I'm just more involved with gcc on targets like SH, sparc64
and m68k.

> In fact I'm one of the maintainers of LDC (LLVM D compiler), and I've 
> bootstrapped the package for armhf/ppc64/ppc64le and working on arm64/powerpc 
> and
> other arches to follow (s390x/mips*) when I have the time. I've also done 
> quite a few bug reports to gcc upstream (mostly NEON ICEs for armhf). So I 
> have a
> pretty good idea of what's involved, though I've only scratched Rust on the 
> surface and never actually developed on/for it.

Ok. It first sound like you thought it would be a trivial thing to do.
- From my experience, getting compilers work properly can be quite involved
on non-mainstream architectures. People are normally used to compilers
to be nearly bug free from their experience on x86 targets but that's
often not the case on other architectures. On SH, for example, there
were over 20 bugs to be fixed until the SH backend for gcc-5 was properly
working.

> I know for a fact that there are people pushing for IBM to actively support 
> Rust on ppc64*. Whether that works or not, I have no idea, but at least people
> are not idle.

I have heard the same, yes. But the question is whether this is endorsed
by IBM themselves or just some people working at IBM. Unlike Golang, Rust
doesn't have a big usecase which makes it attractive for porters. For Golang,
it's container technology and all the projects around it. Nearly every company
wants to jump the container hypetrain and that's why Golang is coming to
more and more platforms. Plus, Go has a second implementation called
gccgo which reaches even more targets.

> As with all new languages it will take time, but eventually it will get 
> there, with a big IF. The biggest(only?) problem with PowerPC in general 
> right now
> is hardware availability not lack of interested developers. Developers will 
> try anything new if it's decently priced (as ARM/MIPS have already proven).
> Show me a decent 64-bit PowerPC board at ~100-200EUR, Talos was a great idea, 
> but about $17k more expensive than it should have been.

The problem with Rust is that there isn't even a stable and fully
supported ARM port despite ARM being one of the largest targets
Linux runs on. x86 is their only tier 1 architecture, the rest
is tier 2 or lower.

If Mozilla wants Rust to be a serious competitor to C++, they will
have to stack up their resources but I doubt they have the finanical
power to do that. They're not Google and their contract with Yahoo
will probably not be extended either now that Yahoo has been bought
by Verizon.

Adrian

- -- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
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