Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 15:20 +0100, Michel Dänzer wrote: > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 17:00 +1100, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote: > > > > > > There seems to be a race condition somewhere which sometimes causes this > > > when setting a video mode. I can usually get back the correct display by > > > forcing a mode set, e.g. by switching between console and X. > > > > The problem seems to be due to the panel powerup sequence. It looks like > > you need to do a well timed sequence of events when toggling the various > > LVDS related control bits for the panel to come reliably up. However, > > from trial & error, I've never been able to come up with a sequence that > > works perfectly for everybody. I suspect differnent panel models require > > different sequences. > > Maybe this could be improved in radeonfb though, given that it doesn't > seem to happen (or at least much less frequently) with the X radeon > driver without UseFBDev? Happens for me with it every now and then too. Ben. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 17:00 +1100, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote: > > > > There seems to be a race condition somewhere which sometimes causes this > > when setting a video mode. I can usually get back the correct display by > > forcing a mode set, e.g. by switching between console and X. > > The problem seems to be due to the panel powerup sequence. It looks like > you need to do a well timed sequence of events when toggling the various > LVDS related control bits for the panel to come reliably up. However, > from trial & error, I've never been able to come up with a sequence that > works perfectly for everybody. I suspect differnent panel models require > different sequences. Maybe this could be improved in radeonfb though, given that it doesn't seem to happen (or at least much less frequently) with the X radeon driver without UseFBDev? -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
> FWIW, I haven't heard of this blooming damaging hardware. Still it's > probably a good idea not to leave it indefinitely. :) > > There seems to be a race condition somewhere which sometimes causes this > when setting a video mode. I can usually get back the correct display by > forcing a mode set, e.g. by switching between console and X. The problem seems to be due to the panel powerup sequence. It looks like you need to do a well timed sequence of events when toggling the various LVDS related control bits for the panel to come reliably up. However, from trial & error, I've never been able to come up with a sequence that works perfectly for everybody. I suspect differnent panel models require different sequences. Unfortunately, ATI never answered my various questions about this. On the other hand, I seriously doubt that this can damage hardware. The fact is that if a flawky chip ends up dying while in linux, people tend to blame linux :-) If that happens in MacOS, they rightfully blame the hardware... go figure. Ben. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
Thanks for explaining my missunderstanding =) On Thursday 18 January 2007 17:36, you wrote: > > To me, it is bright an flickering. > > Never happens is X starts normal, an do occur if switched to console(fb) > > That's just the PLL data being misdetected, resulting in a flaky PLL > setup. No powering down the panel output drivers here. > > To me, the LCD 'blooming' always was an indication of a crashed X driver. > If console switching fixes it for you, the X driver evidently is still > alive, so no harm possible. > > Michael -- --- Børge Kennel Arivene http://www.arivene.net ---
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
> To me, it is bright an flickering. > Never happens is X starts normal, an do occur if switched to console(fb) That's just the PLL data being misdetected, resulting in a flaky PLL setup. No powering down the panel output drivers here. To me, the LCD 'blooming' always was an indication of a crashed X driver. If console switching fixes it for you, the X driver evidently is still alive, so no harm possible. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
Hello again (again), Just thought I'd let you know that UseFBDev = 0 did the trick, I think. Several sleeps, wakeups and boots later and I have not had the "blooming" problem. Many thanks for your help! Joe Joseph Sanger wrote: Hello again, Well it happened again last night on a wakeup but I couldn't change terminals - the system hadn't properly woken up. Maybe it had turned the LCD backlight on before everything else and then froze, I don't know. I will try Option "UseFBDev" "0" later, if I remember correctly it is turned on at the moment. BTW the card in my machine is an ATI Mobility Radeon 9700, if that sheds any light on anything! Thanks again all for your help/opinions, Joe Michel Dänzer wrote: On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 22:49 +0900, Joseph Sanger wrote: FYI. it was this forum that got me worried, its about half way down the page: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-473838.html What do you think? You mean the allegation that the radeon driver killed the GPU of a 'TiBook DVI' twice? It doesn't say which model exactly, in particular whether it had a Mobility Radeon 7500 or 9000. FWIW, I ran the radeon driver almost exclusively on the latter for over three years, that machine now belongs to my gf and is still running OSX perfectly. Anyway, it's even less likely for this kind of blooming (which seems to be due to the LCD controller powering down, as someone else pointed out; there may be other causes that produce similar symptoms) to damage the GPU than the very small likelihood for it to damage the panel. BTW I forgot to mention, it sometimes happens on boot as well (maybe 1 in 10?). Once it happened just before the penguin appears at the top of the screen, but usually just before the debian login window. If you're using Option "UseFBDev" in X, try without. Looks like it could be a radeonfb issue.
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
Hello again, Well it happened again last night on a wakeup but I couldn't change terminals - the system hadn't properly woken up. Maybe it had turned the LCD backlight on before everything else and then froze, I don't know. I will try Option "UseFBDev" "0" later, if I remember correctly it is turned on at the moment. BTW the card in my machine is an ATI Mobility Radeon 9700, if that sheds any light on anything! Thanks again all for your help/opinions, Joe Michel Dänzer wrote: On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 22:49 +0900, Joseph Sanger wrote: FYI. it was this forum that got me worried, its about half way down the page: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-473838.html What do you think? You mean the allegation that the radeon driver killed the GPU of a 'TiBook DVI' twice? It doesn't say which model exactly, in particular whether it had a Mobility Radeon 7500 or 9000. FWIW, I ran the radeon driver almost exclusively on the latter for over three years, that machine now belongs to my gf and is still running OSX perfectly. Anyway, it's even less likely for this kind of blooming (which seems to be due to the LCD controller powering down, as someone else pointed out; there may be other causes that produce similar symptoms) to damage the GPU than the very small likelihood for it to damage the panel. BTW I forgot to mention, it sometimes happens on boot as well (maybe 1 in 10?). Once it happened just before the penguin appears at the top of the screen, but usually just before the debian login window. If you're using Option "UseFBDev" in X, try without. Looks like it could be a radeonfb issue.
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
On Wednesday 17 January 2007 20:42, Johannes Berg wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 19:44 +0100, Børge Holen wrote: > > I've seen this issue quite often.. > > > > To me, it is bright an flickering. > > Oh I think the flickering (where everything is distorted left/right) is > a different issue. Flickering up/down... not sideways, the flickering consist of vertical bars > > johannes -- --- Børge Kennel Arivene http://www.arivene.net ---
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 19:44 +0100, Børge Holen wrote: > I've seen this issue quite often.. > To me, it is bright an flickering. Oh I think the flickering (where everything is distorted left/right) is a different issue. johannes signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
I've seen this issue quite often.. My PB5,7 do have the same symptoms... The whole thing corrects itself by changing back and forth from console(running radeonfb) and X, this is often corrected by making the switch once, however... twice and more is know to be needed at times of need ;) If it boots with the problem... it normally corrects itself when X starts... here to I've been forced to switch back and forth till it corrects itself. To me, it is bright an flickering. Never happens is X starts normal, an do occur if switched to console(fb) On Wednesday 17 January 2007 15:19, Johannes Berg wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 22:49 +0900, Joseph Sanger wrote: > > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-473838.html > > > > What do you think? > > I don't think that makes sense. The higher the applied voltage is, the > more twisted the crystals become and the pixel is black. So how can a > white display have any adverse effect when that means that there is no > voltage on the pixels? > > To me, the other explanation (backlight on, lcd off) makes more sense > because I imagine that if you turn off the lcd then it'll stop > refreshing and start losing voltage in the pixels meaning it'll slowly > go to white, probably from the edges to the center since the electrons > have to flow out the edges... > > The cite you linked is actually taken from > http://tstotts.net/linux/gentoopb.html but that has no explanation of > what should cause this "process of frying the video card and panel > permanently!" > > But keep in mind that I don't have any idea about electronics. Maybe we > should bring this question to someone more knowledgeable. > > > BTW I forgot to mention, it sometimes happens on boot as well (maybe 1 > > in 10?). Once it happened just before the penguin appears at the top of > > the screen, but usually just before the debian login window. > > The first instance is when the kernel driver initialises the panel, and > the second when X starts up, so those points clearly make sense. I > haven't seen the effect in a long time though I did see it a few times. > > johannes -- --- Børge Kennel Arivene http://www.arivene.net ---
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 22:49 +0900, Joseph Sanger wrote: > > FYI. it was this forum that got me worried, its about half way down the > page: > > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-473838.html > > What do you think? You mean the allegation that the radeon driver killed the GPU of a 'TiBook DVI' twice? It doesn't say which model exactly, in particular whether it had a Mobility Radeon 7500 or 9000. FWIW, I ran the radeon driver almost exclusively on the latter for over three years, that machine now belongs to my gf and is still running OSX perfectly. Anyway, it's even less likely for this kind of blooming (which seems to be due to the LCD controller powering down, as someone else pointed out; there may be other causes that produce similar symptoms) to damage the GPU than the very small likelihood for it to damage the panel. > BTW I forgot to mention, it sometimes happens on boot as well (maybe 1 > in 10?). Once it happened just before the penguin appears at the top of > the screen, but usually just before the debian login window. If you're using Option "UseFBDev" in X, try without. Looks like it could be a radeonfb issue. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 22:49 +0900, Joseph Sanger wrote: > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-473838.html > > What do you think? I don't think that makes sense. The higher the applied voltage is, the more twisted the crystals become and the pixel is black. So how can a white display have any adverse effect when that means that there is no voltage on the pixels? To me, the other explanation (backlight on, lcd off) makes more sense because I imagine that if you turn off the lcd then it'll stop refreshing and start losing voltage in the pixels meaning it'll slowly go to white, probably from the edges to the center since the electrons have to flow out the edges... The cite you linked is actually taken from http://tstotts.net/linux/gentoopb.html but that has no explanation of what should cause this "process of frying the video card and panel permanently!" But keep in mind that I don't have any idea about electronics. Maybe we should bring this question to someone more knowledgeable. > BTW I forgot to mention, it sometimes happens on boot as well (maybe 1 > in 10?). Once it happened just before the penguin appears at the top of > the screen, but usually just before the debian login window. The first instance is when the kernel driver initialises the panel, and the second when X starts up, so those points clearly make sense. I haven't seen the effect in a long time though I did see it a few times. johannes signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
Hi there, Thanks Johannes and Michel for your replies. I haven't tried switching VTs yet, I'll try when the problem recurrs. FYI. it was this forum that got me worried, its about half way down the page: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-473838.html What do you think? BTW I forgot to mention, it sometimes happens on boot as well (maybe 1 in 10?). Once it happened just before the penguin appears at the top of the screen, but usually just before the debian login window. Thanks again, Joe Johannes Berg wrote: Hi, The powerbook sleeps fine I think, but probably about 50% of the time, on wake-up, the display freezes with a black screen and then slowly begins to "bleach" white and purple from the top. Obviously I shut down immediately as this looks dangerous. I've been told that this is completely harmless as it's just what happens when the LCD is off but the backlight still turned on for some reason, which causes the screen to go completely white after all the crystals clear out. I don't really have a fix for it. What happens if you switch VTs a few times when it happens? johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
Hi, > The powerbook sleeps fine I think, but probably about 50% of the time, > on wake-up, the display freezes with a black screen and then slowly > begins to "bleach" white and purple from the top. Obviously I shut down > immediately as this looks dangerous. I've been told that this is completely harmless as it's just what happens when the LCD is off but the backlight still turned on for some reason, which causes the screen to go completely white after all the crystals clear out. I don't really have a fix for it. What happens if you switch VTs a few times when it happens? johannes signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 11:20 +0900, Joseph Sanger wrote: > > Forgive me if this has been covered before, there were some messages in > the archive which I couldn't seem to open. > > I am new to Linux and have installed Debian Testing on a dual boot with > OSX. I have a powerbook5,8 (one of the last ones, with the high-res screen). > > The powerbook sleeps fine I think, but probably about 50% of the time, > on wake-up, the display freezes with a black screen and then slowly > begins to "bleach" white and purple from the top. Obviously I shut down > immediately as this looks dangerous. FWIW, I haven't heard of this blooming damaging hardware. Still it's probably a good idea not to leave it indefinitely. :) There seems to be a race condition somewhere which sometimes causes this when setting a video mode. I can usually get back the correct display by forcing a mode set, e.g. by switching between console and X. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
powerbook wakeup/boot display issue
Hi there, Forgive me if this has been covered before, there were some messages in the archive which I couldn't seem to open. I am new to Linux and have installed Debian Testing on a dual boot with OSX. I have a powerbook5,8 (one of the last ones, with the high-res screen). The powerbook sleeps fine I think, but probably about 50% of the time, on wake-up, the display freezes with a black screen and then slowly begins to "bleach" white and purple from the top. Obviously I shut down immediately as this looks dangerous. Also, probably about 1 in 10 startups causes the same problem. I've Google'd but can't seem to find a definite fix. When I type uname -a I get the following: Linux debian 2.6.18.3-powerpc #1 Mon Dec 4 15:30:06 CET 2006 ppc GNU/Linux I haven't changed much from the basic install, but I did install pbbuttonsd. I'm back on OSX for the moment - I dont really want to melt my hardware. Please let me know if this isn't the appropiate forum for this message, Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
